When Pam Geller held her Draw Muhammed contest in Garland, Texas — and two wanna-be jihadis mounted a spectacularly unsuccessful attack — the reactions were swift and binary. The event and resulting shootout were portrayed by the commentariat as either a brave defense of America’s First Amendment freedoms or a willful, unnecessary, she-was-asking-for-it provocation. Next up was Friday’s Phoenix Draw Muhammed event that was held outside the very mosque the two perforated Garland shooters frequented. Local Muslims — outraged or not — were smart enough not to take the bait. Now we have guys like Mike Dankert demonstrating what will happen to offended Islamists should they take offense at his rudimentary artistic skills. Are we over this yet?
Buy that man a beer, or a case of them!
@DZ, FVCK Mohammed and his death cult.
Daniel Zimmerman says, “Are we over this yet?” This rubs me the wrong way. Is this something you meant as a flippant throwaway, or are you willing to stand by it?
I don’t think it’s a good idea to draw Mohammad, even thought there are thousands of paintings of Mohammad in every Islamic country and in museums throughout the world and such depictions do not in any way violate the Koran.
However, I do think it’s a good idea to kill all jihadist scum in the US. But please don’t offend them, because that would be wrong.
When hunting varmints, sometimes all you need is the right bait! 😀
We’re not over this yet. Not by a long shot.
We continue to permit Muslims to immigrate into the US, therefore the problem is only just beginning.
“We’re not over this yet. Not by a long shot.”
Sweden, Norway, Finland and others are slowly waking up to the threat.
Germany’s Angela Merkel has herself proclaimed “Multiculturalism has failed.”
The US has decided to ignore the warnings of others, rather odd as it seems emulating Europe is what the Left wants most to do.
Get out of debt, when shopping pick up a few extra canned goods and slowly prepare the best you can.
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. It could get ugly.
(And be on good terms with a good gunsmith.)
Not Sweden. We actually have people in government (environment party) that has campaigned to reduce sentence to convicted Swedish terrorists. We give taxpayer money to Muslim organisations who invite ISIS speakers. We give government aid and comfort to returning ISIS fighters (we are nr.1 in the world of ISIS fighters per capita). We have right now 55 “no go zones” where muslim and other criminal gangs rule according to the police. We abolish any way of effective self defense (even a screwdriver can be considered illegal to have on your person) and the police try desperately to ban all weapons and confiscate them while the criminals freely smuggle machineguns into the country. I could go on and on about all the bullshit going on here but you should get my point by now.
Yep. Just think how the Vikings would have responded to a bunch of rude, intolerant and violent immigrants that had been invited into their country. And today? Wow!
The same could be said about our early american ancestors.
But that is evolution. A species that is not willing to defend itself from a more vigorous, violent and more reproductively prolific species will be replaced by the other species.
I’d have a simple immigration policy: no immigrants with violent felony pasts, no immigrants who oppose the Bill of Rights or who refuse to defend it, no immigrants who are unable to provide a positive benefit to the nation such as job expertise, and no immigrants who refuse to assimilate into American culture.
How do you define “American culture?” Eliminate St. Paddy’s Day, Cinco de Mayo at Applebee’s, and eliminate Martin Luther King events? Is American culture predominantly white redneck “culture”?
Start by excluding immigrants who think it’s culturally acceptable to kill people who disagree or offend you, whether it’s over a drawing or because of “honor”. That seems easy enough.
What has made America strong and unique from the beginning has been the influx of talent, intelligence, and drive we have imported from around the world. I love the “melting pot” where we have (eventually) adapted elements of cultures from around the globe to make us the mongrels that make up America. Look up – hybrid vigor.
I love and salute St. Paddy’s Day, Cinco de Mayo, and other celebrations of this great countries roots. Less excited about Martin Luther King events as they increasingly celebrate Al Sharpton instead of the great Dr. King.
But here’s the thing. The desire to be American instead of African-American, or Spanish-American, or (insert your favorite ethnic or nationalistic group here). I’m not German-American, even though that is about one hundred percent of my bloodline. I’m simply American. That’s why, in Florida the same people who love the anti-Castro Cuban immigrants who worked their asses off to get their little slice of the American dream, detest the Marielitos who think you should learn Spanish to interact with them.
It’s not a white, red-neck culture that I value, but an American one. Which by definition is an amalgamation of many cultures. Any culture, race, or ethnic group that thinks America should “fundamentally transform” to suit them instead of making every effort to become a part of America is anathema to the very survival of this nation. Celebrate your roots, honor the culture of your origins, and I’ll be right there next to you enjoying the music, food, language, and traditions you and yours have contributed to our greatness as a nation. Have the hubris to believe this nation should be just like the one you came from and I’d welcome you to return there.
Oh, and the traditions of cutting off the head of any one who disagrees with you, clitorectomies on your daughters, and stoning rape victims just really don’t fit in with America’s core values.
“Cinco de Mayo” is pretty much a North American creation anyway–the Mexicans don’t celebrate it with any notable fervor in Mexico. So you might as well leave it in. MLK was a native American (born right here), so why would someone other than a liberal troll figure celebrating his ‘day’ might be un-American? The guy with the “god complex” needs to work on his material.
Think of it like a big pot of soup… everything that goes in it cooks down to contribute to the soups flavor and texture…. Islam is like adding an ingredient that will never contributes to the soup in a positive way..
Now THAT we can agree on.
“Cinco de Mayo”???… Hell, I thought it was Drinko de mayo… I’v been doing it wrong..
god forbid a country with religious freedom enshrined in the Constitution allow people to practice religious freedom within its borders.
The Constitution is not a suicide pact.
And in granting religious freedom to Muslims, that is what it becomes.
People need to stop mouthing bumper-sticker slogans and start studying Islam and the history of Muslim conquests. The recent development of “political Islam” seeks to regain the power and conquests of the Caliphates. Those caliphates didn’t reach their zeniths upon peaceful coexistence with Christian cultures of Europe, or the religions to their east. As they conquered, the Muslims subjugated.
There are signs of hope that some world leaders are starting to awaken from their politically correct stupor; Angela Merkel has just recently declared that multiculturalism is a failure.
Really, people? Does an enjoyment of the shooting sports and a commitment to gun rights *have* to come with being a hateful dumbass? Why all the rage against Muslims? Some Muslims attacked the United States. Most did not. Timothy McVeigh was a Christian; I don’t remember a lot of anti-Christian vitriol after his act of terrorism. Think Muslims have a monopoly on religious violence? See Inquisition, The. Or for that matter, Holocaust, The. And aside from the moral and ethical question, what earthly good does it do the United States to pick an unwinnable fight with a billion of the world’s people, and what earthly good does it do the People of the Gun to portray ourselves incessantly as white bigots?
Yes, violence perpetrated by Christians a thousand years ago surely is the moral equivalent of CONTINUED barbaric religious violence perpetrated by Muslims. One religion has evolved. One has not.
And McVeigh did not commit his crimes because his Christian faith told him he was required to bomb a building.
I don’t know whether to deeply pity your idiocy and willful ignorance, or be envious of your ability to lead such a blind, oblivious life.
Feeling’s mutual, Silver.
Typical leftist response. “I know you’re right and I have no response, but nyah nyah anyway.”
You creatures amuse me.
The TTAG token Liberal Gun Guy has spoken.
There’s no continued violence by Christians? You must not read a lot of news.
Care to provide specific, recent examples of Christians killing non-Christians purely because of religious differences? Without prior provocation?
They are ammosexuals. Their educational experiences are limited to jacking off over gun magazines and watching Faux Noise.
The two are not that far apart in terms of the followers. Most Christians prefer peace, and so do most Muslims. The real difference is that Christians have fought until it became evident that having a secular state was the best way, because there were no winners otherwise.
Even so, there are still Christian theocrats aplenty, who if they had the reigns of government would take us back to a dark age — the “evangelical” Right in the U.S. practically drools over the possibility, and Rome has never given up the idea that the pope should get to dictate to governments.
The real difference comes down to the founders: one a man who surrendered his life as an act of love, the other a scheming thug by any rational assessment.
PICK A FIGHT? You FLAME DELETED they hit us. Keep in mind before you start vomiting pacifist bull $hit many of us have dedicated decades to fighting these animals, and lost brothers doing it. Please tell me the last video a Christian posted beheading an innocent.
He’s the kind of guy who would let gangs tear apart Baltimore because we white guys were mean to them 150 years ago.
My relatives came here 100 years ago and settled in the frozen tundra. Never owned any slaves or oppressed anybody. I feel zero guilt for anything.
Absolutely bud, this limp wrist, defeatist bull$hit is the reason why our foreign policy is beyond pathetic. The formentioned “qualities ” are the reason the “common sense” gun laws are forced through….capitulation
Don’t worry, the left will eventually stop fawning all over Muslims as the last poor group of minorities to be oppressed by horrible white people. They will begin to treat the followers of Muhammad with the same contempt and disdain they show for other religions. Once they lose their leftist defenders Muslims will have no choice but join the increasingly tolerant and welcoming republican base.
Oh, I see what you did there. That’s sarcasm about the ‘publicans, right?
News flash: There’s plenty of assholes in both political parties. How about everyone try to treat everyone else with a little respect and kindness. Regardless of the label you’re given by others.
Those two douche-bag murderers in TX got less than what they deserved.
Ha ha, I hear you. Isn’t asshole a label? Eh, fortunately there are more assholes than religious zealots. Otherwise we would be in real trouble.
Who “they”? If you mean 9/11, that would be Saudis, so why is that country still there?
You devoted decades to fighting who? Muslims? Because the Bush Administration assured the nation and the rest of the world that attacking a Muslim nation wasn’t a Christian vs. Muslim thing.
There’s no problem with people who pay lipservice to any belief system from crystals, Jesus, Allah, Mohammed, The Flying Spaghetti Monster. The problems come when people aren’t assimilated into to The West.
Please understand that the goal of Islam is to take over the world, and it’s doing pretty well at the moment. Look to the UK and France for what happens when a native population is allowed to be populated with non-assimilating Muslims. Kiss your culture and eventually your country goodbye. Western Europe will be lost in the next two generations. Please name one, just one, Muslim country you’d find culturally acceptable to live in as a plebe.
This is the USA. We are entitled to offend everyone under the 1A. The group who are truly intolerant and hate-filled are the Muslims. They’re the ones blowing up buildings, killing people, and raping at will, just because someone insulted their child marrying prophet. Is it all of them? Of course not. Anybody seen the massive backlash to ISIS by a majority of Muslims? That’s right, there isn’t any. Sure, there’s fighting over which flavor of crazy everyone subscribes to, but there’s no actual cultural backlash.
Muslims like to live in oppressive, human rights crushing, regimes. (All except the ones at the top. They live like Westerners…)
Islam has no place in Western Civilization. They are free to live like 8th Century barbarians in the ME.
Indonesia, the most populated Muslim country in the world.
If you go 5-star, it’s beautiful. You do know that they’re implementing Sharia law as a stated goal, yes? Are you an ‘infidel”? Because within a decade you’ll be rethinking your selection at the wrong end of some deadly weapon…
You wish to live like that, feel free to go. But it won’t be what Bourdain shows you on the TV…
A wonderfully clean country, Indonesia is.
Because you will be flogged (a real flogging with blood and everything) if you drop a wad of chewing gum on the sidewalk.
But, have no fear, although punishment for minor transgressions is severe, there are more fun and serious transgressions for which there is no punishment at all! For example, you can break into the home of a Buddhist family of Chinese descent, beat the men and rape the girls and women, with tacit encouragement from the government! In fact, if the victims complain, the government will flog them for fornication!
Now doesn’t that sound like a great place to party, at least if you’re a Muslim?
Hey, I like spaghetti…I’m fatwa-ing you, and going to jihadi-sauce you for insulting my god.
Oh, btw, Muslims, Christian and Jewish fundamentalists all treat women like shit, just good for breeding, in general, so they all suck, but it’s a significant number of Muslim hard liners (not just a tiny tiny fringe group) who have declared they will force their beliefs upon others, so they get the door prize.
Muslims are brown, talk funny, and don’t go to my church. Therefore, they are different and scary. A handful of Muslims have been violent, therefore ALL Muslims are. Of course, this same logic doesn’t apply to ALL gun owners when one of them goes off the deep end and shoots up a school. Because reasons. Or lack of reason, truly.
It always amazes me how supposedly grown men still see a boogeyman everywhere they go. Are there violent Muslims? Of course. Are they the big threat they’re made out to be? Hell no. You’re more likely to be shot up in a school than by an Islamic terrorist.
No not even close. Please show me where you found your more likely to be shot at a school than some terrorist $hit $tain. Using school shootings frequency as compared to terrorist attacks foreign and domestic and your argument is laughable at best and irresponsible at worst.
“foreign and domestic”? That’s not how this works. Those stats don’t apply to what happens inside the US, because they’re not happening in the US.
There have been 24 US school shootings in 2014. How many US terrorist shootings have there been in the same time frame? Hell, how many (Islamic) terror attacks in the US as a whole? 5.
We lambaste the antigunners for their lack of data and use of emotional rhetoric. Time to use the same standards on ourselves.
Sorry I used the wrong conjunction, but you are really trying to referencing data that counts a student who attacked police officers with a knife(who survived ), gang attacks, and the Isla Vista douche bag and comparing it to another that has has 23 DOMESTIC attacks since 1865. This religion of peace murdered over 3000 people last month alone and is responsible for 2977 deaths in a single day not to mention the lives lost killing these bastards downrange. Disregard the data it must be all my prejudice. Oh, and Wikipedia is not a source.
You’re not just moving the goalposts, you’re tossing them right out of the arena. If you’re going to include all terrorist attacks all over the world, then you have to also include all school violence all over the world too.
You’re still missing the point of how little terrorism actually happens in the US.
And Wikipedia is not a source, but it has citations. Learn how to use them.
Yea sure….shaira law is awesome….
Saudi Arabia is not the US.
The silence of most Muslims in the U.S. after and incident tells me everything I need to know.
You mean the silence of having your ears plugged? Every Islamic terror attack has been condemned by the majority of US Muslims. Your “news sources” just don’t report it directly to you who is too lazy to go looking.
Grindstone, either your ignorant or just throwing thoughts around. A few speak out, not the majority by far, you are wrong.
Grindstone, You seem to be counting on the continuing cultural assimilation of the influx of Muslims. The problem is the more of them there are, the more they don’t assimilate.
In every single country they have infested, once they reach 3-5% they start causing trouble and demanding that their Islamic 8th century garbage becomes law (see:Indonesia). I’m sorry, I wish it play that way, but it does, 100% of the time. It’s happening all over the EU right now,. They want to turn the West into the pathetic primitive shtholes that they came from.
The cradle of civilization, early science, and thought on par with the Romans and the Greeks. Then came Islam, and it was all ruined in less than 100 years.
How do you calculate your claim? You can pick any Islamic attack in recent memory, do a quick google search with the word “condemn” and find all kinds of results of local and national Islamic groups who publicly and loudly condemn the violence.
16V, you seem to be counting on that the majority of US Muslims aren’t citizens. 77% of US Muslims are American citizens. Further, Muslims as a whole only make up over 2% of the total population.
Yeah, Indonesia. Great example. Except Indonesia is 95% Muslim. Data isn’t your strong suite.
Except, it’s not. Calling areas of high poverty, crime, and low law enforcement “Muslim-only” areas is like calling Detroit a “crime-only” area.
Also, I’ve traveled to England, been around London. No such areas exist. There are shady neighborhoods, but they’re absolutely no different from shady neighborhoods in any US major city. And it’s no different from the crime-riddled areas where Italian immigrants gathered in the early 20th century, for example.
Except when much of Europe was wallowing following the (mainly internally-caused) collapse of the Western Roman Empire, much of the Islamic world at the time was flourishing, including massive strides in algebra, astronomy, and medicine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age
Silence does not equal compliance.
“Silence does not equal compliance”.
It equals acquiesce, which is even worse. Any 1st year HS S&D kid will hip you to that logic fact right before the win/loss is tabulated…
You’re missing the point. Yes, the number of Muslims willing to pick up a rifle is a very small minority, but any minority can seem like a powerful majority when all the other kids on the block refuse to do anything concrete about it. You’ve cited many times that other Muslims openly condemn terrorist activity, like the people who burned ISIS flags in public, faces uncovered. I appreciate the gesture, but that isn’t causing ISIS or Boko Haram to pack up their bags and go home, and neither did the sea of moderate Muslim tears shed after Charlie Hebdo or the mountain of Islamic political talking heads saying how much they “despise such atrocities.” Until every country in the Middle East starts combating these fanatics with the same armed fury as the Kurds, nothing will change.
This is where things get insane. What do you expect people in Phoenix to do about Syria? You act like all 2 billion Muslims are all the same and all communicate with each other. Even Christians can’t even agree about simple doctrinal issues, much less have direct influence over world politics. Yet you expect American citizens to resolve all conflict in the Middle East? This is just crazy.
I love when people try to minimize the threat by saying it’s a “tiny percentage”. Yup, it is. Of 1+ BILLION.
That means just the nuttiest one tenth of 1% is 1 MILLION. And as we seen throughout the ISIS takeover of Iraq, the average 90%+ Muslim will do nothing about it. At all.
“What do you expect people in Phoenix to do about Syria?”
Nowhere in my comment did I say American citizens had to do anything to fix the Middle East’s own problems. I said ME leaders need to get with the program and take down the ISIS types running amok within their own borders, just as the Kurds are currently trying to do. I don’t care how difficult or impossible it may seem, just do it, because the rest of the world lives in the 21st century and will not kneel to a small gang of murderous fanatics trying to install a bronze-age caliphate over the globe. I know I’m oversimplifying things, I know there are massively complex religious factors at play here, but I don’t care. There’s a problem, and the people closest to the source of it aren’t doing enough to eradicate it, or at least keep it contained within their own borders.
The nuttiest thing here is how you think that millions of people all over the world who have nothing to do with Iraq and Syria should drop everything, grab a rifle, and rush to SWA.
@Milsurp Collector, then your entire screed has nothing to do with setting up a protest that is specifically designed to get a reaction from the mosque in Phoenix timed to perfectly coincide with service times.
Basically, you’re just foaming at the mouth.
All your showing Grindstone is your ignorance, intolerance, hatefulness and bigotry towards those that see things differently than you. Your go to perjorative? “Your racist if you don’t agree with me”!
But that is typical for liberal/progressives. I think the reason that liberal/progressives don’t have a problem with oppressive and violent belief systems that will murder anyone that disagrees with them and committ mass murder by killing a bunch of helpless innocents is because they do the same.
The most murderous belief system isn’t Islam, it’s liberal/progressives and their roots in godless marxism/communism/socialism.
Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol-Pot, Ho-Chi Min. Etc. Over a hundred million and counting in the last hundred years. Those that support abortion, generally liberals in this country, have the blood of over fifty million of the unborn on their hands. And counting.
Liberal/progressives so hate themselves and their country that they subconsciously welcome it’s destruction by allowing a demonstrably oppressive and violent belief system, that once it becomes a majority in what ever country it resides, will impose it’s version of Sharia, and subjugate, convert or kill anyone that is not a follower of Islam.
But that is also typical of a civilization. Islam? Liberal/progressivism? These violent, intolerant, destructive, and freedom destroying belief systems are simply a symptom of a disease. They are the signs of a society coming to the end of it’s life.
There is a reason dark ages happen. Those come in different masks in history, but the essence is always the same. The mask of the destruction of our current civilization and our descent into chaos, tyranny and mass death is being wielded today by the statism of liberal/progressives and the sword of Islam.
I need to frame your post as a post of some genuine record cluelessness. When you have rightwing Christians denying climate change and evolution, and claiming that the Earth is flat, and that the Moon landings didn’t happen, it’s certainly not those pesky liberals that are leading the USA into the next Dark Ages.
Anyway, how about the fact that we reached the moon in the sixties, as the most literate, rich and scientifically advanced nation in the world at that time, as a loud and proud christian nation.
Now, almost fifty years later, with the control of our schools and universities in the hands of G-d denying liberal/progressives, with public prayer to G-d outlawed in most public venues, -we have dropped below many third world countries in our literacy, math and science skills.
No god, G-d denying liberal/progressives are leading the charge into the next dark age.
I don’t remember a lot of anti-Christian vitriol
Dan, you gotta be sh1tting me. Try saying Grace during a school lunch and you’ll catch a bunch of vitriol you can’t believe.
As long as you’re not a teacher or school employee forcing the students to join, nobody cares.
Apparently that’s not enough for some of your angst-filled colleagues.
Wow.Grindstone, another stupid, wrong statement…. Your winning the idiot contest….
Considering the Koran explicitly states in multiple locations to kill and harass anyone who is not a Muslim, while the Bible does not, should tell you something.
Ben, I have no idea what heavily edited propaganda you’ve heard, but you might want to actually sit down and read that book sometime…
“Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the Lord your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel.” (Deuteronomy 17:12)
“Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed.” (Exodus 22:19)
“They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.” (2 Chronicles 15:12-13)
“Suppose you hear in one of the towns the Lord your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the Lord your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The Lord your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)
And before you think it, Jesus says all OT laws are to be obeyed until the end of time…
“It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17)
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17)
Yep, all those verses clearly tell Christians to murder non-believers. That’s why Christians all over the world are beheading folks on videos, raping women, treating women as second class citizens, and killing thousands of people in mass murder.
Jesus does not say such things are to be obeyed. He says He fulfilled them, which means they don’t have to be obeyed.
Deuteronomy 17:12 is not about killing non-believers, but killing those (both believers and non-believers) that reject legal decisions handed down by either a judge (secular) or a priest (religious).
Likewise, Deuteronomy 13:13-19 is condemning those that would attempt to incite riot among the populace by encouraging them to “worship false gods”, either literally or figuratively (as in, not obeying the laws of the government), but only after examining the evidence brought against said person or persons. Again, nothing to do with killing people purely because they don’t share the same religion.
Exodus 22:19 and 2 Chronicles 15:12-13 both are alluding to the concept of spiritual death, AKA damnation in Hell. Neither passage explicitly states that non-Christians/Jews are to be killed purely for having a different faith.
As for the Law of Moses, the coming of Jesus fulfilled the law and rendered it obsolete.
Luke 24:44-And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
This sets forth the concepts of forgiveness and repentance of sin, which renders the punishments for law-breaking described in the Law of Moses irrelevant.
Luke 6:37-Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven
This passage is not saying that man should not have laws, but that man does not have the authority to judge other mortal men on certain concepts. Example, I do not have the authority to tell you what religion you should follow, what clothes you should wear, what food you should eat, who you can love, etc.
Psalms 50:6-And the heavens shall declare his righteousness: for God is judge himself. Selah.
Onto the Koran/Quran:
Quran 9:14-Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people.
Quran 9:29& 30-Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!
Quran 9:73-O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.
Quran 9:123-O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness.
Quran 25:52-Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness.
Quran 66:9-O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey’s end.
The Hadith also contains various passages regarding the killing and harassment of non-Muslims, but I think I’ve listed enough just from the Koran, particularly 9:14 and 9:29&30, which explicitly tells Muslims to fight against non-Muslims.
Accur81, Yes, Christians have thankfully quit following the Bible except some cherry-picked happy stuff. Which is great, it cuts down on Inquisitions, burning of witches, and killing of scientists. But pretending the calls to, and excuses for, violence aren’t in there is disingenuous at best. Especially OT stuff.
Ben, So, it means exactly what it says when it’s convenient and appropriate. The rest of the time it’s an allegory, or ‘being taken out of context’. You do realize that KJV was written from whole cloth to please the monarch being referenced? That all subsequent ‘versions’ are no more based on extant ancient texts than this blog is? That the Qu’ran is merely a rewrite of the OT/Torah turned up to 11? With some more ‘stuff’ thrown in to suit the needs of the ‘Prophet’?
Well 16V. You know what they say. It isn’t what you say, it is what you do.
Christ never murdered anyone for not being a Christian. He allowed himself to be crucified rather than kill his accusers. The disciples all died while proselytizing without killing those that weren’t christian, most of them in prison for the “crime” of spreading the word. The early Christians were fed to the lions, and did not retaliate in kind.
Muhammad? Rape, pillage, plunder, mass murder, converted, subjugated and beheaded anyone not a Muslim. And his followers continued to use the same methods once he was dead, as they do today.
You could use the silly argument of convenience and you can interpret it anyway you feel, but the point still remains. The Bible does not explicitly state that the followers of Christianity and Judaism should harass and kill anyone who is not a member of their faith while the Quran explicitly states that Muslims should harass and kill non-Muslims, going as far as to mention both of the aforementioned faiths directly.
As mentioned earlier, Jesus did not spread his word, nor did he preach that his word should be spread, through the use of violence. The same is not true of Muhammad.
There’s a big difference between “I think he’s attacking me” and “He’s attacking me”.
People google Central African Republic, where christian militias are slaughtering Muslims by the thousands. Google Burma where Buddhists are burning Muslim villages. Google India were Hindus routinely attack Muslims. It has nothing to do with the Religion, it has to do with which religion has the advantage in numbers and/or in arms.
You’re as stupid as the other fool.
ALL THOSE GROUPS are fighting BACK against 1400 CONTINUOUS years of islamic IMPERIALISM AND GENOCIDE vs non muslims.
The Uganda Christian Army, now called the Lord’s Resistance Army is by no means simply fighting against Muslim oppression. The theft, rape and slaughter of children by self proclaimed Christians is not resistance to oppression.
The LRA is still not comparable as, yet again, the Bible does not explicitly advocate killing non-Christians/Jews purely for the fact that they are non-Christians/Jews. The LRA is fighting to overthrow the Ugandan government and to establish a theocracy based on the Ten Commandments and Acholi tradition, so even then they’re not doing what they do based on a purely Judeo-Christian belief, but a mix with various tribal religious traditions.
Good job glossing over the fact that they’re also killing fellow Christians. These aren’t people fighting to spread their belief, they’re people fighting for power and using their faith as an attempt to legitimize why they fight, despite the Bible saying no such thing.
McVeigh was as Christian as Charlie Manson.
Living in “a Christian nation”, or one that describes itself such, does not make someone a “Christian” any more than living in Iran-Iraq-Afghanistan-Syria-et al, makes someone a Muzlim or a terrorist. However, one is more likely to be a terrorist if born and reared in said countries, and more likely to have Christian principles if born and reared in the U.S.
Profiling? Not really. Facts is facts.
I’m a Jew who lost relatives in the Shoah and whose father fought in the U.S Army in WW2.
Muslims fought with Hitler.
You’re a DUMBASS jino. Dan Baum.
McVeigh was a self professed Athiest.
People with guns are actively concerned with those who wish harm on themselves or others. Criminals, power hungry politicians and religious nutjobs all fit that category.
Unfortunately in the last century the overwhelming majority of violence done in the name of religion has been done for Islam. Mostly because Islam’s prophet was inconsistent, altering his message as he felt it would be received, and because Islam as a religion has been bathed in blood since it’s inception. Muhammed spread his religion with the sword when he was alive, his followers launched a jihad that swept the middle east and parts of Europe (prompting retaliatory Crusades) upon his death, and Islam is STILL beating, mutilating, beheading, stoning and crucifying infidels to this day. It’s the ONLY major religion that has never had a reform, and it is without a doubt the religion with the highest body count to date. So yes. Not all Muslims are terrorists. A sizable percentage are sympathetic to terrorists, and of those that remain the possibility of religious radicalization is a distinct possibility. Unless and until Islam officially reforms and tosses out commands to slay, dominate, and rule over infidels, I consider the entire religion to be undesirable.
I have no problem with Sikhs, Buddhists, et al. Mostly because other religions have historically and currently done absolutely nothing to harm me. Name me a religion where prominent representatives urge death upon non-believers besides Islam.
The fact that you immediately assume racial/ethnic motivation just demonstrates a profound lack of understanding, and perhaps that you’ve drunk too deeply of your party’s Kool-Aid.
Dan Baum, are you a ” hateful dumbass?”
No, but you are ignorant. Timothy McVeigh was an avowed atheist and the Holocaust was not promoted by religion. Hitler was a Nazi, ie slang in German for National Socialist, which does not belive in a god.
And the point that you have to point to an event hundreds of years in the past, the Inquisition, to justify and excuse the current savagery of the followers of their prophet Muhammad, is the point.
Christianity is not being used today as a way to rally the useful idiots to commit mass murder to impose tyranny. Islam is today being used for that purpose.
The fact is I have no problem with Bhudists, Hindus, Ba-hais, Daoists, Sihks, Catholics, Mormons, Amish, etc. being in this country because they haven’t vowed to cut my head off if I don’t practice their religion or if I make a depiction of their founders.
For you to say that for someone that values freedom, the freedom of expression, even to offend, the freedom of speech our own founders put their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor to defend and then expresses that freedom by “offending” someone that places a death sentence on thier heads by this “religion of peace (subjugation) a “hateful dumbass” is disgusting.
These people are patriots. And if you can’t see that, I feel sorry for you.
“Christianity is not being used today as a way to rally the useful idiots to commit mass murder to impose tyranny”
Yes, it is. Just not in the U.S. It certainly is in Uganda.
Umm, JWT, you make my point. The only place you can come up with to try to disprove my point is some lone nation in Africa.
Mean while, godless communism and Islam continues it’s mass murdering rampage across the world In multiple countries involving billions of people.
So when you said “Christianity is not being used…” you really meant that it is being used, just not here.
See Dan? This is why I left. This “for us or against us” bullshit got old really damn quick.
Robert, you have a great website, but some of the people……
Even the Christian ones have forgotten the golden rule.
If you left, then where did this post come from? Truly we live in an age of miracles!
Timothy McVeigh may have claimed to be a Christian, but he didn’t purport to be killing in the name of Christ. And his victims, for the most part, claimed to be Christian too I expect. Likening McVeigh to a Christian counterpart of fundamentalist Muslims killing folks based specifically on their interpretation of the Muslim holy writ is fundamentally flawed. But logic never has been a strong suit for liberals.
“Timothy McVeigh was a Christian”
Wrong! Timothy McVeigh was brought up a Catholic, true. Long before he became a radical, he drifted into agnosticism. Read his biography “American Terrorist”.
I guess it will have jumped the shark when American Muslims are as jaded, faithless, ambivalent, and bored with their religion as American Catholics, Mormons, Methodists, Lutherans, Baptists, etc. It should only take a generation or two for them to be completely desensitized. Once they realize what Bubba says and does has NO bearing on their faith, it will jump the shark, it will happen.
Timothy McVeigh was NOT a Christian, and he said so before he was rightfully executed. Anyone who behaves as he did is not practicing Judea-Christian values or teachings. So please stop the false comparisons.
Protesting against violent, oppressive political ideologies used to be called patriotic.
Today it’s portrayed as hateful and intolerant.
More examples of the fall of America.
The high school goth kid approach to the first amendment isn’t too impressive, I don’t think. Radical jihadists have no place in a civilized society, but neither to 40 year old adolescents.
I’ll take the 40 year old child over the guy that thinks it’s okay to cut someone’s head off in the middle of the street because they don’t share the same religion.
That is perfectly fine that you feel that way, but I would rather have neither in my country. Neither has a place in a rational society.
I’d rather have neither as well, but I tend to spice my opinions with a little realism.
Having family roots in the Appalachians and living in Tennessee, I can comfortably say this:
“Rednecks gonna redneck”
Michael, you’re right. Thank you.
Another fine example of liberal open-mindedness, acceptance of all cultures as equally valuable, and most of all, refusal to stereotype. Good job, Dan.
And Baum’s gotta Baum.
Yeah, and it’s really a baummer watching them do it.
Well, it was kind of a shark-jumping contest to start with, so…
Vanity Fair photoshop, anyone?
“When I say ‘jump,’ you say ‘what shark?'”
I “get it” but… just because we can, does that mean we should? How about a rib fest at a synagogue? Prettiest altar boy competition at a major cathedral? Funniest cartoon of Christ on the cross? Offending all of an opposing faith to offend the most extreme of said faith is simply not the act of a good neighbor. You want peace? Attend an interfaith council. You want to be afraid? Compare data… you know, factual data… on why you are most likely going to need to defend yourself. When Billy Badass fills up on Bud and decides to declare an anti-jihad jihad he is the threat. Racist, generalizing, militia-wannabe, knee-jerk threat. If you fear something, it should be studied. If you fear something and hurl threats, what are you? In the earliest days of man this dude would be throwing rocks at the full moon. It’s not a Muslim threat, it’s an extremist threat… and you sound a lot like “them.”
Well said, Scooter.
Many contests denigrating Christianity in art are held, and many offensive pieces not only exist, but are prominently displayed. Holocaust deniers don’t fear for their lives from Jews.
People aren’t fearful to mock Judaism or eat ribs near a synagogue or insult Christ or put a cross in a jar of urine. Jews and Christians aren’t wholesale slaughtering people in the name of their God in modern times. This “hate” and “mocking” is justifiably calling out a dangerous extremism. Every religion and every organization has had to deal with it, and Muslims should be no exception. I know that goes against your PC brainwashing.
…but wait Christians are the evil ones right…desperately clinging to our guns and relegion
Guess I should go practice my head-lopping technique for all the people who produced “The Book of Mormon” musical.
Alluah Akbar! Wait, Mormon Akbar! No, that’s not right either…..
What late night college dorm room bull session between smug, effete snobs did plagiarize that from? (Trick question, because that’s all of them.)
Please, let’s do compare factual data.
Let’s start with beheadings for people of a religion other than your own.
Let’s move on to killing each other (by the thousands) over squabbles in the interpretation of your 8th Century religious texts.
Next stoning rape victims to death.
How about not letting women drive, or leave the house without a male relative.
How about the deadly intolerance for EVERY other religion on the planet.
(I could do a page of these)
The problem is Islam. Sure we all know “muslims” who are as divorced from all but the lipservice to their “faith” that Christians have been for 300+ years. The problem is that there is a wide slice of Islam that isn’t. They read that primitive violent kill-the-non-believers crap, and actually believe it means something today. And the rest of the Muslim world does nothing to stop them.
Wake up you naifs. Islam does not assimilate. It assimilates you (if your lucky) at gunpoint. If you’re not lucky, you’re dead.
And some light reading for those that may doubt your words:
Islam = The Borg
Ive said it a few times on here, but since you mentioned the borg, the time for handing out a fluidic space ass whoopin is near, 8472 style 🙂
@Taylor TX Inviting the Undine to help with the Borg is as dangerous as inviting hardened Communists to help with Violent Islamists. Either way, you run the risk of being destroyed after your goal is achieved. You will be viewed as inferior, and wiped out in the end.
yes…if jews demanded pork be banned and anyone eating pork be killed id be doing it. If catholics said anyone mocking their sex scandal be killed I’d be doing it. If Christians said anyone mocking Christ be killed I’d be doing it.
fact is in a free society if a group tells you that you can’t say something or do something or they will kill you, you MUST stand up and get right back in their face. To do otherwise is to be a coward…and your freedoms will be lost.
Are we over this yet? Probably not.
But Christians get dinged probably more than just Muslims having to put up with Mohammed cartoons. I just love it when liberal artists who are funded by the government put pictures of Christ upside down in jars of urine. Classy. Most religions in this country have their fair share of detractors.
Just for the record, I am hardly a raving fundamentalist.
Did you know your tax dollars paid for “Piss Christ” through a government administered fine arts grant?
I’m working on “Poop Muhammad” but I haven’t seen a dime yet.
I think a greased pig contest might be more fun.
Islamic BBQ at the Mosque?
How about a rib fest at a synagogue? I have known a few Jews who loved pork BBQ.
Prettiest altar boy competition at a major cathedral? I think my Wife’s Godfather might have been one of those lusting after the altar boys.
Funniest cartoon of Christ on the cross? Seen a few of those in the newspapers.
Take it all with a grain of salt.
When the Muslims stop getting violent over this act, the act will stop.
People are free to have these contests, as much as the Muslims are free to stomp around and call everyone else infidels.
Just from a pure tactical sense, it’s inadvisable to have these contests, with the explicit corollary of making a big show of being armed.
Hold the contests all you want, and yes, be armed while doing so, but don’t brag too much about the second part, you just might get someone who will show up thinking they can take you on. The best gunfight is the one you didn’t have to begin with.
PR people, PR. If we’re going to win the hearts and minds of the fence-sitters and convert a few antis, we need to raise our own personal conduct above those of the jihadists, and that means not explicitly threatening them with lethal consequences.
Draw away, but don’t advertise your defenses, or use the contest as a honey pot for the jihadists.
I think you have it backwards. Geller threw a ‘draw mopedophile’ contest without armed attendees, and they tried to kill everybody. A group protesting that attack showed up at the would be murderers’ home base with visible arms and nothing happened.
That’s why wise men open carry instead of concealed. Because the fight that never starts is better than the one that starts while you’re trying to dig a gun out from under your shirt.
Some of you folks lack a clear understanding of the existential threat, posed by Islam, to our beloved nation. Islam is not a religion of peace and those “wannabee Jihadis” were tied to ISIS. Do yourselves a favor by studying up the Qu’ran, the Hadiths and the findings of the Dallas-based Holyland Foundation trial. In particular, the Muslim Brotherhood’s explanatory memorandum:
“The process of settlement is a ‘Civilization-Jihadist Process’. The Ikhwan (Brotherhood) must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and “sabotaging” its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God’s religion (Islam) is made victorious over all other religions.”
Islam is a threat, especially since there’s very few “Islam-lite” followers, i.e. you don’t see people who only follow the parts of the religion they agree with. It’s a very binary faith. So the threat is real, since they have a lot of people willing to throw down over it.
However, I can’t recommend enticing them to attack, as much as it might feel good just to watch them go through their rabid outrage bit.
To quote Obi-Wan – “we must be cautious”. Draw what you will, but don’t explicitly advertise your event as a honey pot for jihadists.
Besides, it’s a lot paperwork if you shoot someone.
I know full well of the existential threat that is Islam. Unlike most other people, I’ve read their holy texts (or the texts they consider holy).
And therein, you will find that the “Muslim-lite” people (ie, those who don’t go out and kill agnostics/atheists or subjugate Jews & Christians) are, in a clear and unequivocal reading of Islamic texts, apostates.
ISIS is able to do what they’re doing because they can point to clear documentation showing that they adhere to the Islamic code & text faithfully – oh, and Muhammad did it, and he was without sin, ergo, you can’t be wrong if you’re emulating Muhammad.
Europe is discovering, too late, that multiculturalism+Islam is merely allowing the enemy within your gates without opposition.
Yes. Islam, by the book, does not allow for you to pick-and-choose which parts you like. To truly call yourself Muslim, you have to take it all in.
Islam actually loses people once they find out this tidbit.
I’ve read their holy texts
As I have. They’re scary.
OTOH, I admire and respect the Sufi, the Druze, the Ismaili and the Kurds. They are great people, and all of them are considered apostates by “mainstream” Muslims.
“Europe is discovering, too late, that multiculturalism+Islam is merely allowing the enemy within your gates without opposition.”
The countries most vulnerable to this are the countries with the lowest birthrates.
Their governments are afraid there will be no one for them when they get old.
In their desperation to stabilize their population they open the doors wide for nearly anyone to immigrate.
The immigrants refuse to assimilate into the ‘melting pot’ of the new host country.
The end result is plain to see.
And yet they do it anyways.
100 % agree. I wish more people in this world had your wisdom. We’ve been fed “tolerance” for so long that people think it’s a virtue as valuable as honor or courage.
Good job, Mr. Zimmerman. Sure to bring out all the yokels and get another 100+ comment article that has almost zilch to do with guns.
How boring would it be, if everyone thought life should be like a Benetton ad, as you do?
There are at least ten posts from you in this thread already, Mr. Grindstone. So, pot, meet kettle.
Everybody didn’t climb over each other to agree, result, pout and go home
Should you be able to hold events like these, no matter how offensive, without a threat of violence or government intervention? Yes. Free speech and freedom of expression are fundamental human rights.
Will I think you’re a small-minded asshole for supporting these ridiculous draw Mohammed events? Absolutely.
And the Supremes tell us we have to hire any headscarf wearing gal. Glad I’m not hiring anyone…btw did anyone think “Fonzie” when the shark is mentioned? I got no idea about cartoons to PO moHAMmed…
“btw did anyone think “Fonzie” when the shark is mentioned?”
Yes, that’s where the ‘Jumped the shark’ saying came from. It is considered the moment ‘Happy Days’ was doomed.
I knew eventually it would be explained…The heading had me scratching my head.
We as a community can agree that weapon skills are perishable…if you do not practice them you lose them.
If you do not frequently practice rights then they tend to slowly go away as well. I’m all for the practicing of rights, even if I disagree with the message…which I don’t here.
Maybe they should rename it “Draw Mohammad the Goat Rapist.”
Goats? I’d feel better if he stuck to goats. Marry at 6, consummate at 9…
Mo hammy was a goat f’er? Do tell..
So you are asking “Are we over having freedom of speach in this country?” “Are we ready to just submit to sharia law?” “Are we ready to STFU and pay our jizya?” No we are not. Go find a Muslim country to live in.
I have served openly as a Christian in a fundamentalist Muslim country, Afghanistan. I prayed openly, displayed religious texts on my wall, and read my bible openly. And yet, I had many Muslims fight along side me, against thugs and terrorists, and I’ve had a Muslim member of my team die at the hands of these thugs. I had Muslims ask me to pray over their dead, and treat me with greater respect because of my open religious beliefs. These men, these Muslim men, have risked more, and done more for the safety and security of American soldiers than most of you commenting on this web site. And they knew well what the dream of freedom for oppression was. They fought for it, at greater risk than any of you, or me.
So are they just not “real Muslims”? Are most of you just less committed to American ideals than they are?
Have you read the Koran JWT? I have, twice. It specifically denies Christ as the son of G-d. It denies that he was risen from the dead and that he died for our sins. You did know this, correct? The Koran says that there is only one true prophet of G-d and that is Muhamad. In Saudi Arabia, the Guardian of pure Islam, Christianity is out lawed and if you converted a Muslim to Christianity, both the Muslim and you would be killed.
The Koran specifically says that a muslim can nor have infidels as friends, that means you. That they are commanded to convert, subjugate or kill anyone not muslim.
The Koran specifically says these things, among other commands to fight, struggle against and behead any infidel in holy Jihad.
So before speaking about whether your Muslim comrade in arms were being “good muslims”, maybe read the Koran.
Have I read the Koran? Sure have, a few times. I also read the bible cover to cover every year, and have for the last 28 years in a row. And I’ve discussed my faith with my Muslim friends and brothers in arms at length. I’ve never experienced any of the hatred you show here from any of them. And they still fought with us, still fought beside me, risked their lives for me. Why are the Muslims I’ve known so much more committed to the values of freedom and democracy than most Americans? Did I just happen to know, and serve with, the only “good Muslims”?
Well then JTW. Because you say you have read the Koran, then you don’t deny that the Koran commands all “Good Muslim” to do what ISIS is doing right now; that Muhammad did as he spread the word of Islam by the sword to convert, subjugate and behead anyone not Muslim.
So no JTW. The Muslims you know in Afghanistan were not being “Good Muslims”, at least according to their own “Holy Book”.
The essence of Islam is force and coercion, enforced by the threat of and the use of murder.
This is shown perfectly in their commandment to kill any Muslim that converts to another religion or that becomes an atheist and denies Muhammad as the one and only prophet of Allah. Which you would know if you have read not only the Koran but also the Hadith.
Not sure JWT.. But by the very nature of the muslim / Islamic culture there is no democracy .. and the freedom part i guess is whatever they are willing tolerate … If Your Muslim brothers in arms were fighting along side you, i assume for freedom and democracy, then using them as an example of what the majority of Muslims represent cant be right. If it was correct the values of both christian and Muslin would be aligned..
No ThomasR, I absolutely deny that you have to kill all unbelievers if you are a Muslim. And I’m pretty sure you are dilusional.
Oh JWT, You really haven’t read the Koran now have you. Since you lied about that, then I really doubt you fought in Afghanistan or that you are a Christian.
Typical response by a Liberal/progressive though, which you probably are. The ends justify the means for people like yourself after all.
Delusional was the right word.
Not everyone who reads the Koran decides to abide it… Plenty of people don’t go to church… Some people, no matter where they’re born, know bullshit when they see it. There’s a lot more bullshit in the Koran than any other religious book… Not everyone is a follower.
People came to this country to escape religious persecution. It is torture to see my fellow countrymen doing the thing which drove our forefathers to this land. The terrorists want us to hate and be divided. It looks like they are winning. You are handing the victory right to them.
Cowering to them and walking on egg shells because you may hurt their feelings isn’t going to help and will embolden them. Do you get upset over Amish jokes, Jehovah’s Witness jokes etc.?