GLOCK 17 Gen 4 Review
GLOCK is the single most popular manufacturer of handguns in the United States. Thanks to a marketing department that could sell bayonets to millionaires and billionaires, GLOCK’s brick-like semi-automatic pistols are universally recognized, glamorized and immortalized. Just ask 2Pac. Oh wait. I’ve avoided GLOCKs due to their association (in my mind) with Tupperware. After resisting GLOCK’s plastic fantastic siren song for more than a decade I finally decided to see if GLOCKs are all that and a bag of chips. So I asked, and I received and I shot the ever-loving crap out of GLOCK’s standard duty model: the venerable GLOCK 17.
This is the handgun that launched the style [that should have come to be known as] Glockhaus. The gun’s bare bones ballistic minimalism offers no frills, no extraneous machining. Just the things you need and nothing you don’t. It’s the firearms equivalent of Dragnet – just the facts, ma’am.
In that sense, the GLOCK 17 stands in stark contrast to the sexy, stylized look of the Smith & Wesson M&P. Or the Springfield XDm. Or any 1911 on planet Earth. Let’s face it: the GLOCK 17 is ugly. I mean, if the M&P is to guns what Sarai Givaty is to a white tank top, the GLOCK is what Bee Arthur is to the string bikini these days, if you can imagine that. OK, maybe you shouldn’t.
If GLOCK’s detractors could bring themselves to stare at Gorgon’s gun for more than thirty seconds, they’d see that Gaston’s mob have incorporated a ton of well-hidden, well-placed features within the Glockhausian aesthetic. The best of these: the loaded chamber indicator.
On other guns of this type, the loaded chamber indicator is blatantly obvious. The Springfield XD’s sticks up the top of the slide and looks rather jagged. For the Smith & Wesson, it’s an obviously drilled hole in the top of the chamber. GLOCK has smartly hidden its loaded chamber indicator on the extractor, adding a little metal job that’s flush with the slide when empty and angles out when loaded. It’s perfectly placed for a quick trigger finger check, exploiting a pre-existing feature instead of adding a purpose-built part.
Other little things stick out (so to speak) too, indicating intelligent engineering. For example, the chamber in the barrel fits flush and snug to the cutout in the slide, making for a smooth and continuous surface along the top of the gun. While it doesn’t improve accuracy or combat effectiveness, the design feature shows some careful thinking which, one hopes, carries through to the gun’s internal parts.
GLOCK takes a lot of heat for that Perfection motto. It reminds me of legendary football coach Vince Lombardi’s take on the subject: “Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.” Judging from the GLOCK 17 G4, the chase is still on.
The G17’s safety action trigger provides a small amount of predictable, uniform slack up to a wall-like breaking point. The break itself is a little mushy. Never mind. The reset’s the thing.
After ignition, the G17’s trigger resets close to the breaking point with a SNICK that can be heard clear across a crowded gun range, ear pro or no. Well almost. But you sure can feel it in your finger and that’s a good thing, allowing rapid, positive and purposeful follow-up shots.
Compared to similar polymer framed pistols, the GLOCK’s go pedal isn’t the worst on offer. It’s not the best, but it certainly isn’t the worst. The 17’s trigger was designed for the masses, balancing safety with accuracy — tilting dramatically towards safety. More advanced shooters can choose from a wide variety of aftermarket trigger parts that will reduce and smooth-out the 17’s 5.5 lbs. trigger pull.
Number two on the list of gripes: grip texture. I get that it’s a duty gun; GLOCK prioritized firearm retention. But the average shooter will find it a tad uncomfortable. Shooters with massive paws (e.g., me) have other issues: the ridges on the front strap of the grip don’t line up with my digits. In Glockland, it’s adapt or die.
Gripe number three: plastic magazines. They’ve proven to be tough as nails and stand up to abuse just as well as any other magazine, but they’re considerably bulkier than their metallic brethren and, historically, their light weight and slightly rougher exterior has kept them from dropping free from the gun when you hit the mag release.
OK, their latest incarnations do drop free. But I’ve seen older mags sticking around where they’re not wanted (the magazine well of your gun) enough to color my opinion.
It’s easy to see why the masses migrate to Gaston’s gizmo. Thanks to the 17’s thick grip, the gun’s relatively low bore axis, its 4.49″ barrel and the fact that the pistol fires the most manageable of “serious” calibers, the 17’s recoil is not an issue. Newbies would find it downright comfortable, even. More experienced shooters will not be surprised to learn I was keeping about a 1 inch group at 15 yards, with one flier out of 5 rounds.
The GLOCK’s positive trigger reset makes it possible to “ride” the trigger and unleash lead at a furious clip. The GLOCK’s much (and I’d say unfairly) maligned factory sights — a “U and dot” style setup — make getting on target and accurately putting rounds downrange as easy as finding a GLOCK hater at a 1911 convention. FTFs? FTEs? As John McEnroe said, are you serious? Whatever else you can say about the G17, whatever was said about early spring issue-related failures, this gun just worked.
But not for me, exactly. I’m not saying the GLOCK 17 is uncomfortable, it’s just not perfectly sized to fit my hand. I’m sure there are people (millions, apparently) for whom a GLOCK is the gun they feel comfortable having and holding in good times and in bad. Anyway, there’s no denying that the GLOCK 17 is a solid shooter that gets the job done in terms of putting rounds downrange where you want ’em.
Despite my gripes, the GLOCK 17 is a downright solid handgun. It’s reliable, built like a friggin’ tank, and has some pretty darn attractive features. It handles well, has tons of aftermarket mods and a booming accessories market to keep new GLOCK owners well stocked with various and sundry add-ons. It works, and for the money it’s a pretty good buy.
Specifications:
Caliber: 9mm Parabellum
Barrel: 4.4″
Overall: 7.7″
Weight: 22.04 oz. empty
Capacity: 17 (factory) / 19 (flush aftermarket) / 33 (lolwut)
Price: $500 retail
Ratings (out of five stars):
Accuracy: * * * *
Somewhere slightly south of Wilson Combat territory, and nowhere near Hi Point land.
Ergonomics (Handling): * * * *
For the most part its pretty good, but the grip just doesn’t do it for me. There are inserts available to change the size of the grip for larger hands. Unfortunately no interchangeable front straps for those finger grooves.
Ergonomics (Firing): * * * *
A bit of mush in the trigger, but overall very enjoyable.
Reliability: * * * * *
There has been video after video of these guns being abused, and lasting throughout the entire ordeal in perfect working order. GLOCK wasn’t about to let me do anything drastic with my loaner, but I take the word of the dozens (hundreds?) of people who have tried to break theirs.
Customization: * * * * *
I’m pretty sure there’s a rail mountable candelabra somewhere designed to work with a GLOCK.
Overall Rating: * * * *
Good? Definitely. Possibly even great. Just not perfect.
I agree that Glock’s work. But the only one that feels decent in my hand is the 21 and I don’t want to add another, more expensive round to my logistics train.
45acp is the easiest round to reload, and reasonably cheap. My arthritis makes the Glock 45acp a real handful, but I love it anyway! 45acp is one of the few handgun rounds that you can actually save a lot of money reloading, and I find it fun and relaxing. Using Unique, it is impossible to double charge, and dmn near impossible to really overcharge by accidentally putting in too much powder. I can’t think of a single reason not to have a Glock 45acp. Oh, yeah, I have to have a Lone Wolf bbl cuz plated bullets don’t work so well in that Glock polygonal bbl
The Glock 17 seems to be a reliable gun but it has the worst trigger I have ever tried. I have tried every lube I could think of to get the trigger to smooth out to no avail. It feels like the trigger is trying to slide over a rasp and it shows in the accuracy which is the worst of the pistols I have tried but I admit I haven’t tried that many. I noticed the safety part of the trigger rubs plastic on plastic. I suspect that is where the roughness is. My Glock 22 did the same thing but it seems to have smoothed out over time and wasn’t near this bad to begin with.
I really like my 3rd gen 19.
that being said, i agree that they are ridiculous solid but not quite perfect.
A good, fair review. Glocks have a fairly reliable track record and are popular for a reason.
For myself, like Nick, it just doesn’t feel comfortable in my large hands… is it the grip angle? The plastic? The grip texture? Dunno, but I still judge everything by my SIG P226.
The truth is, you should judge everything else against a Glock.
I have been shooting guns for 42 years and I must say without a doubt, there is no more reliable firearm on the planet!!
your wrong, 10mm glock i bought for backup bear hunting blew up on first hard hast buffalo bore round that went though it, thank god a bear was not charging, hand surgury was not fun either,keep your POS glock, there junk
The manual clearly states in red”GLOCK DOES NOT RECOMMEND YHE USE OF UNJACKETED LEAD AMMUNITION”.Page 15sec.26
Bloody hell mate. Go back to school and learn to write a coherent and correctly spelled sentence before writing stuff online. Everyone would probable take your opinion a little more seriously. As it stands; it carries no value.
I’ve been a handgunner for 45+ years and like the author I recently decided to give Glock a try.
I figured if they’ve been a commercial and critical success for over 20 years there must be something to them.
A new G19 came home with me and…….I like it. Having been a bullseye shooter the trigger was a learning experience but what the heck, this is a service pistol after all.
The grip doesn’t suit me like a CZ 75 does and the whole package is decidedly ugly but if push came to shove and I needed a piece for CQB I’d grab the Glock.
Nothing like a CZ grip.But my only Glock,the 20, took me into 10mm territory.Gun is a workhorse that can easily handle full power 10.
wrong, full power buffalo bore hard cast blew my glock apart, junk
I think both of you are nuts. Glock was originally designed to shoot 9mm. All of these other calibers came after the fact, glock just make the gun bigger. Glocks do not offer a fully supported barrel, thats not a problem with 9mm. Its proven to be a problem with .40 cal. Doesn’t happen often but it does happen. I am not suprised in the least to see it happen with 10mm which is nothing but a longer .40 cal with more powder same unsupported chamber. Glocks are not junk, they are great at slinging 9mm ammo all day long. Hell they’re not bad at .45 cal. Anthing else and your taking your life in your own hands.
The loaded chamber indicator is the reason why new Glocks cannot be offered for sale by FFLs in MA. The AG doesn’t like and won’t accept the Glock indicator, so the gun is not rated as safe and can’t be placed on the List. The AG likes the M&P witness hole just fine. Go figure.
Like Nick, I don’t like those ridges on the handle. I have medium-sized hands and my figers end up on the ridges and not in between them.
IMO, with all its faults, the G17 is the best pistol Glock ever made. When I needed to qualify for my Nevada permit and didn’t have my M&P with me, the gun I chose to rent for my shooting practical was a G17. It functioned perfectly, shot true and I scored a perfect round. That’s a big statement from a guy who doesn’t really like Glocks.
“… Like Nick, I don’t like those ridges on the handle. I have medium-sized hands and my figers end up on the ridges and not in between them. …”
Interesting, I love those various kinds of ridges on handgun frames. As long as they fit the fingers, right? I’ve installed those Hogue soft rubber grips on all of my SIGs (that are sans Nills) and they transform the feel of the gun.
As long as they fit the fingers, right?
Exactly. If it doesn’t fit, you must quit.
… or if you love the platform so much, have someone mill the grooves away. Not worth it IMO. But then again my Gen4 G17 works great with my hands grooves and all. The G19 even better.
Nick– Did you have a chance to play around with the back straps?
The ghost of Johnnie Cochran returns!
You don’t pay someone to mill the grips, you just sand or file off the ridges.
On the loaded chamber indicator, Nick said it could be checked by touch with a trigger finger, what about with a thumb for us southpaws? Not that I’m planning on getting one, just curious.
Witness hole? Is that what happens to “guys who snitch?”
As someone who has owned a Glock or two longer than most people here at TTAG (bought my first one in ’87), they’re just a gun. There’s nothing ‘perfect’ about Glocks. They go ‘bang’ most all the time. They’re simple to work on… because their trigger system is a bunch of mashed-up sheet metal and plastic. To me, they’re just a tool, there is nothing about a Glock that makes my naughty bits tingle, because Glocks have all the aesthetic design qualities of a truck battery.
Glock the company, however, have proven themselves to be masters of marketing. American gun companies should take careful note of Glock’s marketing tactics, including the salacious details of taking large LEO accounts out to boobie bars. Such tactics clearly work when one is trying to peddle one’s product to law enforcement.
Well, who doesn’t like boobies?
I can’t deny all the fans and the proven history on these guns, but they are just so not for me–it seems to be all about fit and feel. The grips are too 2X4-like, it doesn’t have any natural point for me (actually, I can’t feel it pointing at all), and combined with the trigger, though improved, it all manages to morph my accuracy into the “You’re in absolutely no danger if you’re standing more than fifteen feet away from me” range (which is just humiliating, so I blame the gun). As for recoil management, I just don’t get the praise. The cut of the grips just bite me wrong, and flip for me is among the worst I’ve shot (possibly because I can’t really get a nice grip on the things–I feel like I’m holding a stack of cell phones). For newbies, they are dirt-simple, but that flip issue isn’t just me: I’ve seen lots of FTEs (stovepipes) if you don’t have the grip strength or have tiny hands (my daughter–who can shoot her 92FS like Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon–actually managed to stovepipe every round in her second mag). (But my best-shooting-bud’s 16 year old loves her G17, so go figure.)
I freely admit I’m an OFWG metal-frame fan, but trying to evolve with the times (and not lug 2+lbs all day) I’ve been giving the “tupperware” another try, and have found it’s not just about weight, it’s ergos. H&Ks are really nice but too pricey when I can get a new SIG or 1911 for the same cash (or less). The M&P feels good, low flip, but kicks a bit stiff (for me it feels surprisingly like a revolver) and the trigger needs help. But I just spent the day with a PX4 Compact and it shoots super sweet and accurate for me. (My rule-of-fit: If I can manage 1″ groups with a gun first time I pick it up, it’s made for me.) And it’s pretty. Really pretty. I am in trouble. (And I think my CZ is jealous.)
I’ve seen lots of FTEs (stovepipes) if you don’t have the grip strength or have tiny hands (my daughter–who can shoot her 92FS like Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon–actually managed to stovepipe every round in her second mag).
This is why I wouldn’t carry a Glock. let alone purchase one. First mission of any defensive arm is to go boom when I pull the trigger. Last thing I want is to be clubbed from behind and struggling to get off a couple of shots, when a gun stovepipes on the second round because I’m too injured, or just at the wrong angle, to iron-wrist it.
I learned that range party trick 20 years ago when the marketing machine kicked into high-gear and all the tacticool slaves had to have one. I’ve done it dozens of times to many iterations, and I’m obviously not alone.
I can get head shots at 30 yards with my 19 about 50% of the time (not that I would ever do that in a DGU but just sayin’). Sounds like you might need some more trigger time with a Glock before you pass ultimate judgement.
Glocks have been shown time and again to be more susceptible to limp-wristing than most other handguns, polymer or other wise. MAC did a video a while back on it. Seen a couple others as well.
I will also add that Glocks in general dont point naturally for me…maybe its the grip angle and lack of grip contouring, but I just dont naturally shoot them well. All I know is that when I shoot every other gun I own well, and dont shoot a Glock well, I wont be adapting my shooting style to shoot one brand of gun better. Which is why the Glock went bye-bye.
If you can’t shoot a full size 9mm without limp wristing it, you need to think about lifting some weights.
Nick, this may not be the appropriate forum for my comment, but I have to say it somewhere: you (and the other writers, and most of the commenters, at TTAG) sure do write well! I’m never going to buy a Glock. Well, never say never. But I could read your reviews about them all day long.
+1
My department issued the Glock in 1991. Wonder of wonders, the officers could carry it or not. I stuck with my 1911 until going to the Sig. When I retired from that department my Glock went with me. Now it’s my fishing gun, or I take it if I need to fly somewhere and check the gat in the baggage. If it gets lost it only cost me 24 years of my life, but no $$$. The only issue we had in the PD was that some (not all) women had functioning problems because of the polymer frame, which is not uncommon with all such guns. My current department issues Sig Sauer, which is what I personally carry when not using the Ruger LC9 for trips to the store. Going into Houston the Ruger and a Sig will be riding with me.
Glocks are popular with a butt-load of police departments because they work and they are realitvely inexpensive. The agencies with money usually go with the Sig, including the Navy SEALS, Texas DPS, and the Secret Service. Nuff said.
Isn’t that the government, though? If you have money, spend it. You can always raise taxes. I’m not saying it’s a wast of money to have a Sig, just not a good indicator of why to chose one over another. That’s coming from someone who has a Glock and a Sig.
1st generation glock magazines were purposely designed to not drop free when the magazine release was depressed. It was one of the Austrian military’s requirements. It’s a European thing I guess… like odd magazine release placement. All the mags manufactured in the past 20 years or so drop free just fine.
This. And the non-drop-free mags have a slightly distinct look versus the drop-free mags. You’ll know ’em when you see ’em.
The rear cut-out at the top of the magazine, between the feed lips, will be one of two distinct shapes:
Square = ‘Drop Free’
Round = ‘Non Drop Free’
And please let’s not forget that Glock mags are, in fact, METAL. They are covered in plastic. This was the only gripe I had with the review.
I have used everything from the browning 9mm semi to the sig. They all have their nigh and low features but all my reservations about the g17 gen 4 have been put to rest. It fires everytime and the recoil is alwost non existent. Its low maintenance overall one hell of a fine machine. I also like the fact that there is no flipping hammer sticking out at the back.
In addition (at least with the 21/20), the drop free magazines have a 3 ¼” x ¼” smooth section on the left and right panel that runs parallel with the magazine. It is basically indented about 1/32″. I carried the Glock 21/30 combo as my duty weapon when I was an LEO (I spent about 9 years in law enforcement until a few years ago). I somehow got one of the non-drop free magazines, and that is how you can tell the difference between them (it was one of the Clinton-era models that was “Restricted to law enforcement use only”). Unlike the 17, it was the newer generation style (square not round notch). I have 15 or 16 magazines for the thing and have always made sure that one was not used on duty.
Nick, I really liked this review! It is a very fair assessment of the gun. I have shot IPSC and IDPA competitions for years and own several 1911’s, Beretta’s, a Sig, XD (just got my 2nd, a XD (S) 3.3), etc. etc. (yes, I have too many). If I were to ever get out of the private sector or go back into LE as a reserve, I would still go back to my trusty 21. It was accurate, reliable, and I wasn’t worried about scratching it. The last 4 years I was with my agency, I was a firearms instructor. To date, my 21 has over 90,000 rounds through it (with the original barrel). At about 65,000 rounds, I replaced all of the springs and trigger linkage. The barrel is still in great shape. It technically has more rounds through it, but that is with a Wolff barrel for when I want to shoot non-jacketed lead. I always liked the magazine flexibility where my backup weapon could use my duty magazines if needed.
I have other Glocks as well (my 20 got me into the 10mm thing like someone else on here). When hiking or backpacking in mountains (Colorado), I throw in the factory 6″ barrel. I feel really confident having 16 rounds of 230gr WFNGC Hardcast DoubleTap rounds out of the holster against any 4-legged thing in this area.
All of my Glocks have the same Trijicon night sights, so it is consistent across the board. They are metal and a lot more durable for doing single-handed weapon malfunction drills with weak hand off of the boot, holster, or belt. I’ve seen too many of the original Glock plastic sights snap off when doing those drills.
All-in-all, by no means perfection, but if I were in the trenches, it would still be my go-to gun in a heartbeat!
It took me a long time to get over my hatred of Glocks. The first center fire handgun I ever worked with was a GI style 1911 with a trigger job, and pretty much any time I held a Glock in my hand it felt like a squared off Lego compared to my 1911.
I had a particular distaste for the full size models as the massive hump in the back strap makes the gun fairly awkward to me. I didn’t care for the triggers the few times I messed with them either.
I was intent on buying either an M&P9 or a XD9 (possibly a Px4), when a friend got me to shoot his 26 with the grip extension. I blazed through more ammo than I normally would with a firearm I didn’t like when I noticed something. The trigger (while crude compared to my 1911) wasn’t that bad, and I was hitting everything I aimed at. What finally swayed my favor towards the Glock was my highway patrolman cousin getting me to try his Glock 23. While I don’t care for .40 S&W I noted that the compact (I term I use loosely) frame Glocks actually fit me pretty well. With a few positive experiences and a note of the numerous Glock accessories I decided to pick one up to be my primary defensive handgun.
I bought a brand new Gen 3 19 with a few magazines for a hair over $400 and I haven’t looked back. I haven’t got around to putting night sights on it yet, but I did put a Talon Grip on it to make it a little grippier. Nick is right about the sights being unduly hated; I’ve always liked 3 got sight pictures, but the bucket and ball sights didn’t hinder my ability to shoot fast and accurate with the 19. I’m not a hardcore Glocker, but if I could only pick one of my handguns to keep, it would definitely be my 19. It’s reliable, accurate, easy to maintain, and I can pick darn near any accessories for it I can possibly imagine. What more could I ask out of a $400 gun?
As shown by your link, the thing that sticks out the back tells you if the gun is cocked. The LCI is on top of the frame
i remember my 1st gen 17, 19, 20, 21’s…
they were all perfectly function and reliable…
things got twitchy starting with gen 2… by gen 3 things were getting ‘meh’…
gen 4, no thanks…
having said that, if i had to have a 9mm and couldn’t get a P7M8 i would grab a 1st gen 17 with no worry’s, they worked…
I think you mean $550 at buds. If not then please post the link where I can buy a gen 4 17 for $455
Anywhere. Military and LEO
I bought mine at the blue label price. $475 OTD
Glocks have literally a ton of bang for the buck. The handgun that I’m lusting of over most is the Sig MK 25, but I’ve got a loaded G27 and G35 (amongst other things of course) in my safe because I can afford them.
One other note: a Glock is typically the
lightest gun in its class
For years i refused to follow the glock herd. I had picked them up and put them down faster than you can say, “no, thanks.” I’ve carried smith revolvers (357 snub & 4 inchers) sig p220 carry, walther ppk (jam-o-matic), walther ppq, ect. I was on the verge of picking up the m&p 9 when a client kept telling me his affection for the17. Went to the range and picked up a gen 4 g19. I figured I’d round a 100 rounds just to say it tried it out. I always hated the grip, it was just down right uncomfortable (gen 3 & earlier). But the gen 4 without a backstrap just ‘fit’, honestly i found myself grinning. 100 rounds later… i asked for another box. I couldnt believe this was a ‘glock’, I was converted. I’ve run 1000 rounds through mine without a single malfunction. Not one hickup. It eats everything from white box ball to p+. For me it is the best size-to-capacity-to-cost sidearm I have owned. The recoil is light, the muzzle flip is irrelevant, and it is disgustingly accurate. Ugly? Its grown on me. I trust it, faithfully. A glock is a tool, a reliable tool that has proven itself over and over again. Maybe its not ‘perfect’ for everybody, but it has certainly earned a place on my side.
I’m not sure why so many people dislike the grip angle. It sort of resembles a scaled down grip of an Olympic competition pistol. And I can shoot a Glock much better than a much more comfortable HK, Sig or even the M&P. However, as reliable as Glocks are, I wish the quality was a little better. Their frames aren’t exactly perfect. But when you look at the gun as a whole, it’s a great package. It just works.
It’s not the Glock grip angle that is bothersome. The problem, for me, is the grip shape. The full size Glocks (G17, G22, etc.) have a hump in the grip that sits in the hypothenar area of the bottom of my hand. This provides a very uncomfortable grip and the gun does not point naturally for me. The compact models (G19, G23) have the hump situated higher in the hand in the palmar area. These are more comfortable in my hand and point more naturally. Here’s a little test to perform with an unloaded gun at the range: Focus with both eyes open at the target, close your eyes and remember the location of the target. From a low-ready position, point the unloaded pistol at the target with your eyes closed. Open your eyes. Are the sights lined up properly? Are you pointed at the target or very close to it? I can naturally point every pistol I own on target this way, including my G19. I can even switch between the G19 and my 1911, no problem. When I try this same test with my father’s G17, I find the front sight is way higher than the rear sight and my POA is above the target. The G17’s grip hump contacts the bottom of my hand, rather than nestling in the palm. This causes it to naturally point high for me.
The 17 pointed high for me in the beginning. The mid-sized 19 was a more natural pointer for me. The 26 is just fine. The weird thing is that the 17L is a very natural pointer for me. It uses the same frame as the 17, but there is a little bit more muzzle weight with the 6.02″ barrel and slide. Now that I am used to it, I do not have a problem with any of them. But a Walther PPS is THE most natural pointing gun that I currently own.
My 1992 era Gen 2 Glock 17 has 25K rounds through it and is still 100% reliable. I chromed the slide because the factory finish on the slide was trashed, but otherwise it has been an outstanding firearm. I also own another Glock 17 (w/ consecutive serial number) which is in new condition. Love me some Glock!
My Glock 19 has everything I need, nothing I don’t, and has gone “bang” every one of the thousands of times I’ve wanted it to. To me, that’s about as close to perfection as it needs to be.
I had a 4th gen G22, but sold it. The grip just does not feel right. My CZ75 on the otherhand fitslike a glove.
what’s with articles bouncing back up to the start of the queue?
When they fall off the page, some people miss them. On occasion, we reshuffle them to the top for additional exposure.
I’ve come to believe that, despite never being a “glock guy”, there’s a G21 out there somewhere with my name on it.
Now where’s that $570 again?
check out buds gun shop, this morning the G21 is listed at 545.00
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/13726/Glock+21+45+13+Rnd+Fixed+Sights
GSSF (Glock Sport Shooting Foundation) members can buy new Glocks through the GSSF Pistol Purchase Program. Those prices are discounted from MSRP although maybe not so low as LE prices. A www search will find more information.
One other little side benefit to GSSF membership is the free guns! GSSF gives away somewhere between 10 and 30 guns at each outdoor match as RANDOM prizes (in addition to the first place shooters in each division). I’ve already won two that way and next year I’ll up my chances by volunteering as a range officer.
My G19 is with me almost all of the time when I carry, supplemented only by a G26 or a Ruger LCP when I really need small. I’ve had it for almost 20 years. I’ve put thousands of rounds through it and only had problems once-multiple FTF and FTE from one old box of S&W branded ammo I’d had around since the 70s. Other than that, it’s reliably eaten everything I feed it from WWB to PMC and Speer Gold Dot.
Glock is the Apple of firearms. A reliable, sturdy, well designed tool That gets the job done with a little bit of style. But like the iPhone 5, not really the best product out there and a little behind the competition.
Glock has zero style. Apple is all about style. It would be more appropriate to compare their marketing strategies, as both have legions of loyal “fanboys” who would run out and buy the newest product they put out, regardless of what differences there are between the old and new.
Glock is the Samsung of firearms. Comparatively inexpensive, consistently reliable, and offers many years of happiness, though they will do the job just as good, if not better in most cases, than Apple or any other brand.
Dont like that? well too bad. that is the contention of almost every reviewer and consumer report in favor of Samsung vs Apple and Glock vs other brand. 😀
People confuse glitz with style. Like Bauhaus design, the Glock’s simplicity is what makes it stylish.
Posted from my Samsung Note tablet.
I picked up a gen1 G17 back when they first hit these shores, I liked the non drop free mags, with less than ten rounds they dropped free, somewhere north of 10 they would swell slightly and stick. This made perfect sense for a sidearm, you don’t want to accidentally drop a full mag in the mud of a battlefield.
For me ,the appeal is multiple calibers and sizes with an identical manual of arms as well as the utility nature of the weapon.
If you have your 3K, custom 1911 confiscated after a DGU or lost, you would feel pretty bad about it. With the Glock line you just go out and buy another one that is essentially the same for a few hundred bucks.
Nick, been packing a Glock 27 now everyday for five years, been carrying concealed for 20 years, started with a Taurus PT101, I love the little Glock and bet my life on it to function when needed. I didn’t like them at first but now very seldom carry anything else.
Picked up the G17 Gen4 this past weekend.This is my 3rd Glock, the others being a G26 Gen3 and a G23 Gen4. I have to say that I am totally impressed by my 3 Glocks. Accurate, reliable(no FTF’s, FTE’s, FTL’s, nothing) and fun. I have switched out most of my weapons and now only have Sig Sauer and Glocks. One exception is my S&W M&P Shield which will not get sold or traded. The G26 does outperform the Shield but is thicker and I still like the way the Shield fits my hand and it disappears when carrying.
I disagree that they’re ugly. They’re functional. Aesthetically Concise might be a good term. I also think the AK is probably the sexiest gun ever made.
Glock’s are as ugly as a FW190, and P-51 Mustang pilots respect it. Glock was meant for meet 17 requirements of Austria army, and as I recall, among the first pistols that is ready to shoot but won’t discharge when dropped.
A bit like luggage with wheels — why did it take so long to invent.
it is a good gun
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I just don’t get what the problem is with your gripes on the grip. I have massive hands. Nearly ten inches from bottom palm to middle finger tip. And I can grip the gun fine. Granted, my pointer finger barely makes it between the trigger and the trigger guard, but still, once it’s in there, I’m a happy shooter. I am six foot eleven, three hundred thirty pounds, and find this gun to be the best I have ever shot.
A Glock review that starts out with a tupperware comparison and continues in to how ugly they are. Oh the creativity, TTAG!
Definitely not “perfect” but shoots better than a Beretta. Swept back grip isn’t for everyone. GlOCK 22 s are junk. Had a 40sw GlOCK and it was the worst gun I’ve ever owned. The 17 is better . New shooters looking for a pistol. Ask you dealer to hold a ruger SR then hold a GlOCK. You’ll like the ruger better.
Since YOUR Glock 40 cal was “junk” that means all the hundreds of thousands of Glock 40 cal owners have junk too, right? I shoot best with a G23, but now that you said they are “junk” I must be wrong. Ruger SR series have had alot of problems, but they arent junk? You know what they say about opinions…….
I started my law enforcement career carrying the issued Smith & Wesson model 10-4, 6 shot revolver then I was issued the Smith & Wesson 9mm, the Smith & Wesson 40 cal. then my department issue the Sig 40 cal. All were great guns.
After being assigned to a federal task force I was issued the Glock Model 17 gen 4. I was reluctant to carry it. I had been on a assessment team in 1985 and voted against the Glock just because it was plastic and ugly. I was afraid it would crack or blow apart. But after 20 years of reliable service and firing it again 20 years later the range I must admit that I impressed with the low recoil, simple construction, weight and reliability. For a duty weapon or concealed carry weapon the Glock is light weigh, reliable, dependable and affordable. I now carry the Glock as my weapon of choice on and off duty and highly recommend it.
Very well balanced article/review. I also have large hands and have enjoyed a love affair with a gen.2, (no finger grooves), for many years now. I think the gen 2 with the Hogue grip sleeve would serve you much better. Your comment on the trigger reset predictability was right on. I can fire that gun accurately at an unbelievable rate of speed compared to others I have tried. I can empty 33 rounds in less than 5 seconds with head size accuracy at 25 yards.
I began my love affair with guns by falling for S&W revolvers and my first purchase was a 629 follow by a 625. Next up the Ruger SR1911 made its way into the rotation. I love the old school look and feel of these firearms and the Ruger is one of the best shooting guns I’ve ever fired but you know what my go-to pistol is in a shifty situation? My new Glock 17 gen 4. It’s light, eats any ammo, easy to break down if necessary and most importantly it’s accurate.
I just can’t get the range time I’d like to so I need something that I can shoot well without running 10000 rounds through it a month. Out of the box I was satisfied with my accuracy with the Glock 17. And after a little warming up I was more than impressed.
Couple this incredibly reliable weapon with one of the excellent pistol caliber carbine rifles and you have a formidable self defense package. My Glock and my Kel Tec Sub 2000 share ammo, mags and can both be carried on me completely concealed if need be. And I can shoot very well with both of them. Argue with that all you want but you won’t win.
For the record I think the Glock design is one of the most esthetically pleasing pistol on the market. There is beauty in simplicity and minimalist detail. I dislike guns that are overly ornate and find many of them garish and tacky looking. Like something you’d see hanging out the window of a low rider filled with gangbangers. Flashy does not equal beautiful to me. To each his own I guess.
Exactly correct and wonderfully well said… thanks
“There is beauty in simplicity and minimalist detail. I dislike guns that are overly ornate and find many of them garish and tacky looking…”. No they are ugly. Your artsy description was a nice try, but you should have said “she has a great personality”.
I too find the over-done collectible series tacky for the most part. Now, if you want looks with functionality…Beretta 92!
I have a Glock17 (not gen 4). All the good things said about this gun are true. It’s an amazing gun and very easy to shoot well. But I can’t warm up to it. It’s ugly and it feels like an oversized water pistol in my smaller than average hand. Since I don’t enjoy it’s company, I don’t practice much with it and I don’t take it with me when choosing a carry gun of that size. I keep it by my bedside with night sights. That neither I nor an intruder will have to actually see her ugly face when I shoot him.
It is a given that the Glock is a great reliable gun. My personal favorite is the Gen 3 G19,not only for the way it fits, but also how it feels in the hand. Never cared for the texture on the Gen 4 models. But this is a personal preference and everyone is different.
But, I have to disagree with this article and countless others that describe the gun as “ugly”. On the contrary, I find it to be one of the most elegant looking guns ever made. It is simple, clean, business like and the form is derived from function. Like another comment mentioned, they are apple-like and most people confuse bling with good looks. Glock, like Apple has done a commendable job of focusing on the product with evolutionary changes with each generation and spreading them across the product line which differs only in sizes and calibers. This is unlike most other companies for whom this changes with every product iteration.
The M&P and others while certainly more ergonomic to some in their hands, are decidedly garish to look at. Every one of these (M&P, PPQ, P30) have all types of curves and circles on them. In the grip area, if these design elements add to the comfort, they are justifiable, the rest is sheer nonsense.
The Glock G19 is visual perfection and balance at it’s finest in a handgun.
You are exactly correct. I think the GLOCK pistol is THE finest most elegantly simple pistol ever made. Simplicity is beauty.
If the world ended tomorrow and chaos was everywhere what gun would you have on your side?
I just bought the G17 Gen 4 9mm. What do you recommend to use for ammo for Defense and for Plinking?
What grain works best?
Newbie shooter. Glock recommended by cop I met at Greeley Square walking home from rifle practice. When I told him I was getting my pistol permit in NYC, he said, “Glock.” NRA instructor recommends “standard” rather than “exotic” pistols for newbies. Even though NYC is gun-unfriendly, the cops here seem positive to responsible gun ownership even by women. Who’d a thunk?
Bought a 17 gen 4 and still learning it. I think it is a hard gun to learn on, but that’s what I have. With all the people on this thread complaining about grip too small, for me, the grip is a little too big, so it’s not the most comfortable. As difficult as it is for me to control the shots, I think I am learning and getting better at it. For ammo I got Wolf FMJ 115gr — a little light but cheap, and seems to shoot okay. Would heavier ammo be better?
As the guys said, not perfect. But then, neither am I. BTW, I’m 67.
As a retired 20 year LE officer, 10 on SWAT and FBI/NRA trained LE instructor for over 20 years I always give the same advice when asked what type of handgun to buy: Buy the one that is comfortable in your hand, in a caliber you can shoot accurately and comfortably, that you can understand the operations of; and buy a reliable brand that cops carry. Be it Glock, Sig, Baretta, S&W etc.
That said, I started my career with a S&W 581 revolver. Easy transition when I was issued a Glock 21 four years later and I became a believer. For the reasons stated above. Perfect comfort in my hand, comfortably controlled caliber, easy to understand. I have added the 22,27 and 30S to my personal collection. All fit those requirements.
Bottom line is, with over 250,000 rounds through Glocks, I have never had a failure that I could not honestly attribute to a bad grip or a cheap piece of crap ammo. I have subjected a couple to completely unreasonable abuse and they took it all. So from the reliability aspect, I have never seen anything that can do better.
Ultimately buying a gun is in some ways like buying shoes. Not all shoes feel the same. Feet are all different so not all shoes will fit the same. They will feel different. If a pistol just does not feel good in the hand then find something that does and if it fits the other requirements that be happy with that. So, while I am as big a fan as there is for Glock, when asked what handgun should I buy I can never just say get a Glock. If the Glock feels good to them, great. But if it does not then it is time to try something else on.
Too many lovers and haters get too wrapped up in an emotional position. No need for the fans to get bent when someone says it does not feel good in the hand. On the other hand a lot of closed minded haters never gave them a fair chance. Perhaps their loss. There are enough gun haters out there we need to watch out for to be seriously getting bent out of shape with each other. Call it some friendly chop busting and leave it there.
As for me, Glock all the way.
Be safe, be smart. keep the faith.
I like your well-reasoned and sensible approach to the question. Here in NYC, you cannot even touch a pistol until you are licensed, and then you have a limited time to buy a gun or they cancel the license. So Glock was a good choice for my first gun, but it’s a little big for my hand. Even though I like the Glock very much, I will know how to judge better for the next one. Thanks.
I can’t say I agree with all of the comments about this gun being ugly. When I first started to get interested in handguns, I would have agreed with that sentiment, but I think it’s a matter of taste. It’s grown on me over the years. The Glock, to me, is rather attractive in a sort of industrial-modern design way. The lines are simple and clean. There’s no weird tumor-like bulge anywhere (think Walter PPX grip). The Glock is like if an Ikea designer came up with a gun, but without the gloss-red paint.
Don’t get me wrong. If we’re just talking aesthetics, this doesn’t compare to the classic 1911, a stainless 92FS, or a CZ75. There are even other variations of the “plastic fantastic” I’d take over it (Sig SP2022 comes to mind). But there is something to be said for simple, clean design, especially when it comes with such high levels of function and reliability. If a 1911 is a Corvette, then the Glock is a diesel Volkswagen. It may not be the most exciting thing to look at, but it has its attractive qualities, and it will run forever.
^^^^ what he said.
For owners of older Glocks, the new loaded chamber indicator and the extended slide release are simple upgrades anyone can do.
I will take Bee Arthur if she performs better than Sarai. Most beautiful women I know are just some other guys problem. g17 for the win.
I have just read a heap of comments both for and against, As somebody once said you can’t please all the people all the time. I have owned four Glocks over the last 20 or so years and I would have to say my fav was an older G19. I have just purchased number 5, A G17 gen4,here in Australia it was $945 with only 2 ten shot mags.hopefully the license will come through in the next couple of weeks then I will post a report on how it is going.Chris C.
The People’s Republic of NYC makes carry permits mostly impossible for civilians. Hollow-points banned. NY State SSR nearly as bad. Mail order ammo banned. Crazy magazine laws. Serious shooters get Utah and Florida licenses, plan to move to America.
Prefer the gen3 Glock 17 myself….when I’m not using
my Glock 21 8-] Don’t get wrapped up in the fan boy
stuff…buy what fits your hand or you like! YOU have
to use this thing after all. I have also owned and shot
1911’s and Ruger’s P90. Not a fan boy…
It doesn’t feel good in my hand, it doesn’t fit my hand, the grip angle is funny. WTF talk about a bunch of ass grabbing bastards comparing a glock to a croation POS that sold for $150 at gun shows before Springfield (not the original Springfield) put their logo on it and jacked the price up, gave people extra accessories and a 007 case, making noobes bend over and take it hard. Yeah glocks work.
i don’t know what’s the big deal about glocks having big or bulky grips. I have small hands with short and stubby fingers but I have no problem gripping and shooting my 17 and that’s because I shoot with two hands! THat’s right TWO hands! The last time i went to shoot at the range people were still shooting with two hands. So unless you shoot with one hand, the grips shouldn’t be an issue.
Nick first off. Very fair and honest review on gen4 G 17. Thankyou
Now.as I live in the great state of Florida. Polk County. Or as I call it the Mouse Trap. We have more CCW holders then any other state. We also have some serious crime. Major drug problems. I know this as I work as an armed security officer. One of my posts was in Lakeland at low income housing. There was a major dealing going on in one section. Looked just like a tv show. 3 guys siting out side cars pull up one walks up hand in car then walks back. Next guy walks up hands person in car something. Car drives off. Well people I work for said got to stop. So worked with Lakeland P D. Sector sup great guy. Any way myself 4
patrol guys and k9 unit. First raid on a tuesday nite. No major arrest made. But issued 3 trespass citations, also found them using empty unit as stash house. Got there Buss cell phone. K9 guy smashed it with his boot. So waited a couple days. In mean time property management wanted all empty units in that section cleared. On to Sunday nite. Another raid. This time with a couple more patrol units added. Had a car that was there when it went down. 2 patrol officers had driver and other person in car exit. K9 came in the dog located about $4000.00 in ICE (meth) and 2 firearms (handguns) Meanwhile myself, the sector sup and k9 officer used a 3 man entry team to clear 14 units. My firearm Glock 17 gen 4 The officers firearms Glock 19. Point of all this. My Glock is part of me. Like my right hand. I practice my drill weekly. P B,3,10,15,25 yds. 15 rounds total 150 points possible. Go thru 3 times 450 points possible. Most weeks score 395 low to 435 high. Dam pb gives me trouble. Have put over 3000 rounds thru my 17. All stuff I load. 115grain fmj. Never a single problem. When working carry hp frang. Florida law. I trust my life every week to my Glock. And it seems so do most L E O I don t think about reliability of my Glock I know its there. I do think about is hope my vest works if I am shot. Just some food for the brain to think on. Also most reviews were real However. Some of these guys suffer from rectal cranial infarction.Be safe and keep truth about guns comming.
2000. Glocks were king
2015. Glocks are average
All the traits he mentioned that were positive about glock, almost every major company that produces a striker fired gun now also have. And they look, feel and shoot better. It’s funny no matter how good something is, others will eventually catch up and pass it. Glocks are still really really good guns. But the simple fact there are better striker fired guns now proves that they really aren’t great. And never really were. They were just the only one in the game
I’ve shot tons of guns as an instructor, and out of everything I’ve shot, Glock is the one brand that runs like a tank, no matter dirty it is! It’s a no frills combat handgun with superior reliability, and decent everything else. What more do you need in a sidearm?! LOL
Glocks just don’t fee comfortable to me, and I have no doubt they are a very dependable gun and a good value. Whenever an issue such as trigger or grip angle or whatever is brought up it is answered with ” yeah but its a glock”. There are many options out there that are dependable and well built and just as reliable, so no need to feel bad if for whatever reason it doesn’t fit you and you choose something else. I own several brands that all work flawlessly, makes me wonder what some of the Glock devotees have owned before to be so amazed at a gun that works like it should.
If you dedicate enough time to train on a Glock it will serve you as good or better than any pistol available. I began a law enforcement career in 1993 and became an instructor one year later. The first five years the issued pistol was a Sig 226 9mm. Reliable and accurate with a sweet trigger. When the dept switched to the Glock 22 in 1998, I was training program manager and bitched, cried, complained and hated on the Glock because I didn’t score as well on qualification and Bulls-Eye courses, but was stuck with it. Recognizing it to be a different animal than my familiar guns, I reluctantly shelved the Sig and my 1911s and trained exclusively on the Glock. The lightbulb really came on as our training evolved from double taps and more precision oriented shooting to fast and furious, high round count combat courses. Once you master the proper grip and perfect the technique of keeping the trigger moving you will shoot tight groups as fast as you can pull the trigger. Tens of thousands of rounds later, I still have to work a little harder on the bullseye course, but for anything that is speed oriented the Glock is superior. With the proper training, any reliable brand that you choose will probably be the pistol you shoot best, but for me I cannot ignore the fact that I have never had one single malfunction in any Glock pistol. Keep a little Lube on the rails and it will work all day long. If it doesn’t, either use decent ammo or sell it because you got a fluke, then buy a different one. Thinking the other companies have caught up I have recently owned M&P, PPQ, vp9, CZ, 1911 and still have my Sig, but in my hands the glock outscores them all. If you are willing to adjust your technique to the pistol and train I believe it is the superior design for combat shooting. Lighter, crisper triggers and comfy grips are crutches that will help you shoot better initially but will keep you from shooting your best.
I like GLOCK17 and SIG P226. But I never had them. Because I come from China . Here the private possession of firearms is prohibited . If someone can give me a GLOCK17 or SIG P226 was awesome ! But Chinese police soon I was sent to prison . I must rely on translation software , so please use simple English to communicate with me . Thank you
The LaserMax Spartan red and green rail-mounted lasers are advertised as “The First Perfect Fit for Handgun Rails” and retail for $149 (SPS-Green) and $99 (SPS-Red). Street prices are at least $10 less, however my SPS-G was $40 less, so it pays to shop around. Batteries (1/3N size) are $5.45 on the LaserMax site, I ordered two extra when I bought the laser and drop in a new one every six months.
Having found great value in a LaserMax Centerfire red mounted on the front of my Shield’s trigger guard, I was anxious to try a rail-mounted green laser that I could switch between my various range and carry pistols. Note: all pictures show an unloaded CZ P-07 Duty.
Riding on just a small part of a 1913 rail, the unique mounting system of the SPS-G allows for some customization of the reach to the activation paddles on both sides of the device. Here is the laser all the way back against the trigger guard . .
I have had my only Glock, a G17, since 1989. I had it converted from a Gen 2 to a Gen 3 two years ago.
The G17 IS perfection, in my humble opinion.
Maintain the helpful work and bringing in the crowd!
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For the first thirty years of my ownership of my G17, I shot cast bullets (155gr LRN) that I cast myself from a Lee six-cavity mold. 800 FPS was all I needed for competition here in VT/NH. It has been my CCW gun since 1989, being totally reliable. No jams ever.
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WARNING: Glock is not for women.
I was all excited about the Glock — good name, I was able to pull the rail back easily, and I was able to easily take it apart and clean it.
Yesterday I went to the range and the Glock 17 9mm misfired on me EVERY single time. My husband fired it and had no problems and couldn’t see why it wasn’t working for me. We called Glock and they claim the problem is my grip (my husband feels this is a sad explanation as he didn’t see anything wrong with my grip). This is my self-defense gun and I can’t have a gun that is not dependable. I did not have the same problem with the Sig Sauer and none of the other guns I’ve shot have had a jamming problem. This is a design flaw and Glock’s representative hung up when we demanded that they should have a disclaimer warning that this gun misfires if not held exactly right.
A Glock should shoot reliably regardless of who shoots it.
I used to have a t-shirt that showed a Glock and had “COMBAT TUPPERWARE” emblazoned on it. I bought it, along with my first semi-auto handgun – a Glock 19 – back in 1992. The shirt is long gone, and I have retired from check cashing service/armored car service, but I still have that original Glock. And it still functions flawlessly.
Is the spring of the magazine really very stiff and Is the grip confortable?Is the slide easy to rack.Thank You
I will happily maintain that the glock is a great gun, it’s gets the job done reliably. Reliability seems to be their biggest selling point. They just aren’t for me. I would never feel inadequately armed with a glock, but with so many options out there that are just as reliable, I just can’t justify it. My rough-around-the-edges police trade-in P229R has been every bit as reliable as a glock and the thing’s laser accurate. Ergonomics are spot on as well, and i got it for less than a new glock. But, if you love them, carry on my friends.
I’ve been shooting long guns, shotguns, pistols, revolvers, and original Civil War muskets and carbines for over 60 years. Ive owned or own Colts, S&W, Kimber, SIG, Rugers, and others. Never had a Glock until a year ago. Traded my wife’s S&W Shield for a G42 (.380 ACP). She couldn’t rack the slide on the S&W and feared the recoil.
Well, she shoots it well, and easy for her to carry.
Me? I shot her 42 and loved it. So much so that I got a 43 for myself, and then a Gen 5 19.
I shoot these homely little guns better than all the others. Including the 1911s. I do some IDPA and shoot action pistol weekly with a bunch of other geezers at my gun club. Sorry I waited this long to Glockenspiel. The others now remain mostly in the safe.
My 2 cents, Bought a new Gen 3 17L and it jammed 4x in 4 different mags, bought a new G 34 gen 5 I think it was special designed barrel with new rifling to make it more accurate and it shot average, shot the G21 gen 4 45 cal and loved it, shot the G17 Gen 4 and loved it and going to buy another one, shot the 10mm Gen 4 maybe G20 ? and loved it – had very little recoil, just like the G21 45 cal. Sorry for the run-on sentences, lol :>) My brother and many of his friends are Special Forces, Navy Seals and they all swear by them. Although, my cousin did say his friend who is a Jersey Cop hates glocks like many of the other Jersey cops because Glocks jammed a ton for them. They are small for my hands and I added the backstrap to it and still too small. I have large hands but by no means gigantic. They don’t feel good in my hands but the Glock 17 just shot great for me. A buddy who was a green beret and trains other armies around the world now told me to make sure the gun feels great in my hand above all. Sorry but that’s all the wisdom I have to offer. It is a bit contradicting but those are the facts. I do trust Glock for reliability and accuracy but I don’t like how it feels in my hand and I don’t really like the look or feel of them. They feel cheap but in general really seem to perform very well. Thanks for your time, Brooks
I am perhaps the least refined gun owner to post ,but absolutely love my G17 Gen4 . I had a stainless 1911 that I seldom picked up and eventually sold . I had read about Glocks for about a year before I purchased . I have a good place in the country to shoot , but have only fired two magazines partly because bullets look like jewels too perfect to shoot . I expected it to feel more like firing a 22 caliber , but felt surprisingly powerful to me . I am 81 and only 5’9″ and the G17 feels absolutely perfect to me . I love the trigger , pebbled grip and added backstrap I am an admirer of innovation and fine machining and at least to me this is the finest handgun ever !
As is usual all positive comments must necessarily give equal time to the negative . I have the G17 on a small stand by my bed as I write and the worst thing about my G17 Gen4 is that i cannot , regardless of how I fight the urge , glance at the Glock without picking it
up . My G17 may well be the least fired and most ” fondled ” firearm in existence !!