For Whom The Red Flag Waves…Increasingly, It’s for You

Jamie Raskin, Eric Swalwell, Jerrold Nadler, Joe Neguse, Sheila Jackson Lee, Veronica Escobar

(AP Photo/J. Scott Applewhite)

This is TTAG’s weekly roundup of legal and legislative news affecting guns, the gun business and gun owners’ rights. 

Red Flags Continue to Wave, But For What?

In a manner that’s beginning to make me feel like a broken record, this week we see New Jersey’s red flag law take effect, as we’ve discussed in previous weeks, and local governments wanting in on the action as well. Instead of just reporting on the goings-on in these localities, let’s talk about the red flag issue more broadly.

This type of measure is seemingly on its way to nationwide adoption, be it through an unconstitutional act of Congress, coercive federal “funding,” or individual state action. But why is it red flag laws have gained such profound staying power? Is it because they’re effective? Safe? Meaningful?

In reality, red flag laws are none of these things. “Studies” that claim red flag laws “may have” prevented murders miss the mark in a pretty horrifying way: they confuse the execution of a “red flag” order with the neutralization of an actual dangerous threat.

The “study” currently being touted by red flag proponents is authored primarily by UC Davis public health scholar Garen Wintemute (quelle surprise!). It suggests that because, of the hundred-some-odd red flag orders the authors were able to research, twenty-one involved some threat of a mass shooting, that the red flag laws “may have prevented” mass shootings.

It leaves one to wonder: Around the turn of the century, when the pages of dime store novels were alight with depictions of train heists and shootouts at the saloon, might people hot with emotion have written in their diaries about robbing trains or flashing a six-gun in a saloon? Could it be that, in a culture that apotheosizes mass shooters–despite mass shootings being incredibly rare–that someone “mentioning” a type of crime that the popular media won’t stop talking about has little bearing on whether they’d actually do it?

People are, to a tremendous extent, products of their environment. If you tell a child, every single day, that the most horrifying thing he could do would be to ride a bicycle, don’t be surprised if that child, in an emotional fit, threatens to become the next Lance Armstrong.

Does that tearful threat actually affect the likelihood he will tear through the French countryside on a fixed gear? Probably not. Just like the 21 people analyzed by Wintemute are not likely to have actually been one-in-a-hundred-million mass murderers.

The confusion of a red flag order and actually neutralizing threats doesn’t stop with mass shooter hysteria. The FBI recently used Oregon’s shiny new red flag law to seize the arms of an ex-marine after he made vague allusions to “slaughtering” antifa. This happened after the ex-marine said, over a loudspeaker: “If antifa gets to the point where they start killing us, I’m going to kill them next. I’d slaughter them and I have a detailed plan on how I would wipe out antifa.”

Those statements caused the FBI to petition the Oregon courts to red flag the man. Despite never accusing him of any crimes, his property was seized and he was prevented from engaging in political activism. Retired FBI agent Michael German said of the response: “Clearly, this latest incident shows how effective proactive policing can be in reducing the chance of violence.”

Now, to be sure, that wasn’t dinner table conversation. In fact, it wasn’t even campfire conversation. It’s pretty wild, weird stuff to be shouting. That said, conditional threats (as opposed to “true threats”) are protected speech. (The general rule is that if the threat begins with “if…” it isn’t a “true threat,” although there have been exceptions.)

The fact that the Oregon man made a weird conditional threat has nothing to do with “how effective proactive policing can be in reducing the chance of violence.” There was no evidence the man was anything more than (perhaps too passionately) politically active. It only shows how effective proactive law enforcement can be in enforcing laws–for better or, more likely, for worse.

LydMayor Lyda Krewson, Mike Parson st. louis missouria Krewson, Mike Parson st. louis missouri

St. Louis Mayor Lyda Krewson (AP Photo/Jim Salter)

St. Louis Mayor Doesn’t Want to Follow State Law

A few years back, Missouri became a permitless carry state. This is a good move for a lot of reasons. It means that police have to presume that someone carrying a firearm is doing it lawfully, as opposed to demanding to see a permit.

It also means people are freer to respond to meaningful changes in their own lives without having to seek government permission or waiting arbitrary times. It shouldn’t be too difficult to see that when you need the means of defense, you need it now. Not in 3-5 business months.

That said, St. Louis Mayor Lydia Krewson is asking the state to please not apply the law to her city, because she wants to control who can and cannot have an effective means of protecting themselves. Why? Well, for the benefit of… the police?

“This is for our police department. Our police don’t have the tools they need to take guns off the street. Having a permit to carry a gun is really not a big ask. It’s for our police officers,” Krewson said.

That’s right, residents of St. Louis. Worry not about protecting yourself from crime. Your mayor wants local police to “have the tools” needed to arrest and jail anyone who dares to carry a firearm without first jumping through whatever hoops your city has in mind. What of the repeated, manifestly intentional civil rights violations by St. Louis police? Worry not. It’s for our officers.

ar15 trigger AR-15 safe fire

Dan Z for TTAG

Cook County, Illinois Assault Weapon Ban Holds Up in Federal Court

In an unsurprising but still disappointing move, the Court of Appeals in the Seventh Circuit upheld Cook County’s (wherein lies Chicago) ban on assault weapons. The underlying lawsuit focused on the vagueness of the ban, arguing that residents with semi-automatic weapons “that are not assault rifles” may be subject to prosecution.

The Court of Appeals wasn’t convinced by this, opining that the plaintiffs “have not come forward with a compelling reason to revisit” the same court’s previous ruling in the Highland Park assault weapon case, where the court uninspiredly noted that the Second Amendment “does not imperil every law regulating firearms.”

These decisions, as they have come to be common, are not evidence of the constitutionality of assault weapon bans. They are instead evidence of the hopeless gutlessness of the federal judiciary.

Lower courts cite a lack of precedent as a reason to bury their heads and ignore a serious abuse of power, rather than create precedent and allow it to be appealed if incorrect. If there’s a “thumb on the scale” when it comes to determining whether a right has been abridged or not, it ought be on the side that isn’t threatening to initiate violence against people who just want an effective tool to protect themselves.

Instead, the judiciary protects the status quo–however they perceive it–with nigh-on paternal passion. So the lower court buries its head, and the Supreme Court ignores the appeal, leaving the lower court decision to stand. The federal courts are supposed to be checks on abuses of government power, not a rubber stamp mill.

comments

  1. avatar Dude says:

    I think we need to keep an open mind about this. We should red flag anyone that overuses ALL CAPS in comments. They are (he is) obviously UNHINGED.

    1. avatar Hannibal says:

      All-caps people have a screw loose but the real scary ones are those that capitalize seemingly random words in a sentence (example: “These laws are an Affront to our sense of justice and make a Mockery of due process”). Those are the ones you really have to watch out for.

      1. avatar No one of consequence says:

        So clearly we need to ban capslocks keys and too-easy-to-shift keyboards.

        1. avatar Geoff "Hurry-up and *die*, Ruthie" PR says:

          Perhaps computer makers can rig up a shock-collar to the shift key, so you get a nasty blast every time the shift key is used, or if comments are made about mandatory medical procedures…

        2. avatar Hank says:

          I was going to suggest a 3 day waiting period on the use of any shift key. That should allow people time to cool off between posts so they can’t offend with so many high capital assault words.

        3. avatar Victoria Illinois says:

          Google Chromebooks already banned all-caps….just one ‘shift’ button.

    2. avatar Ralph says:

      “We should red flag anyone that overuses ALL CAPS in comments.”

      THIS!

      oh wait . . . .

    3. avatar Sian says:

      Red flag anyone with more than 6 bumper stickers on their vehicle.

    4. avatar frank speak says:

      anyone who threatens to respond to a real or perceived threat by using a firearm needs to be a lot more careful about what they say…it’s the new reality….

  2. avatar Hannibal says:

    If red flag laws might prevent murders maybe we should take another look at keeping violent felons (oh, I’m sorry, ‘justice-involved persons’) in prison where they can’t murder anyone.

    Funny how when murderers are caught in places like Chicago and Baltimore it never seems like there were no warning signs… like rap sheets the length of your arm.

    1. avatar Victoria Illinois says:

      I think Chicago just tore up all rap sheets. It’s discriminatory.

    2. avatar Jeff In CO says:

      YOU’RE JUST RACIST (@HANNIBAL)

      I’M USING CAPS LOCK WITHOUT A 3-DAY WAITING PERIOD.

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

      (Okay, back to responsibility. I’ve always wondered what it was like to throw down the race card indiscriminately in all caps without a background check or 3-day waiting period. I’m guessing it probably feels the same as if I had filled out a form 4473 and wrote the same thing. I guess the red flag laws are really working…)

      1. I’m filing for a ” RED FLAG/ Extreme Risk Protection Order–for Abuse of Keyboard buttons! ” LOL! Oops.. lol!

      2. The Demo-Authoritarians and THEIR Police Confiscation Commandos Squads will “seize YOUR keyboards and firearms!” No political activism for !!! No even a butter knife ! LOL!
        I mean, lol!

    3. avatar Michael Stilinovich says:

      Hannibal,
      “in prison where they can’t murder anyone.”
      Are you sure it’s okay to say that without getting red flagged. I think it needs to be stated “in prison where they can’t unjustly take someone’s life.”

  3. avatar James Campbell says:

    I’m waiting to see Clad Tepes post that having a firearm should be conclusive evidence that a person is nutty as a squrrel turd, and therefore have their weapons permanently removed by the “red flag” law.
    Come on Vladdy boy, prove me right, I have money riding on this with your mom.

    1. avatar Vlad's Tiny Testes says:

      I’m sorry, I had a terrible dream last night America turned totalitarian when a Democrat became President, and I didn’t have a gun and was dragged away screaming late one night.

      This terrified me so much, I bought an AR-15 for every room of my squalid home, and now sleep with a Desert Eagle in 50 cal under my lice-infested pillow.

      I am now a 2A absolutist, please forgive me.

      1. avatar Geoff "Hurry-up and *die*, Ruthie" PR says:

        Whoa, WTF just happened???

    2. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

      To James Campbell

      “Come on Vladdy boy, prove me right, I have money riding on this with your mom”

      Big deal my mommy will let anybody ride her for money.

  4. avatar GunnyGene says:

    RE: That Marines warning to Antifa. And it was a warning, not a threat.

    Marines tend to speak our minds. That’s not going to change. Y’all might recognize the following quotes:

    “I come in peace. I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you f**k with me, I’ll kill you all.”

    “The first time you blow someone away is not an insignificant event. That said, there are some a**holes in the world that just need to be shot.”

    “Find the enemy that wants to end this experiment (in American democracy) and kill every one of them until they’re so sick of the killing that they leave us and our freedoms intact.”

    “Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”

    1. avatar Chief Censor says:

      You’re not threatening the president are you?

      1. avatar GunnyGene says:

        I don’t make threats. Never have. It’s not productive.

    2. avatar frank speak says:

      consider where it happened…antifa seems to be something of a protected group out there

  5. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

    Red Flag/GVRO are yet another avenue of infringement,violating at quick count at least seven amendments,a example was posted here on TTAG.

    Unfortunately my state was one of the early adopters of Red Flag and rite out of the gate,it’s first use it failed spectacularly and was covered here on TTAG.

    Vermont Teens Planned a School Shooting So Police Confiscated a Relative’s Guns

    https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/vermont-teens-planned-a-school-shooting-and-police-confiscate-a-relatives-guns/

    Red Flag yet another more egregious infringement !

    1. avatar MarkPA says:

      I can imagine, within a few years, SCOTUS granting cert to a Red Flag order that’s just too egregious to tolerate. The Vermont relative’s case is a good example.

      Will SCOTUS look away when the violation of due-process is flushed down the drain because of X? Even if X is GUNZ?

      Will SCOTUS justices see that there is any purpose left for the judiciary to perform if the executive can easily execute a warrant from a justice of the peace without due-process? Well, then, the rule-of-law would mean whatever it is that a justice of the peace says it is at 0-dark-thirty of any night with respect to any citizen – strike that; I should have written “subject”. That’s it; then the only thing required of the “Third Branch of Government” is a justice of the peace. No appellate level, no supreme courts, we can even dispense with legislative bodies to draft new laws. The law will be nothing less than whatever any official of the executive branch can get a justice of the peace to say it is.

      At that point – anything-confiscation without due process – laws will be flushed down-the-drain in one fell swoop and we can get on to thinking up new gun-control laws to pass. But no-due-process will be placed by SCOTUS “up with which they shall not put”.

      1. avatar HP says:

        This is correct. The only thing that might eventually put a stop to Red Flag laws is litigation that winds up at the SCOTUS. In the meantime, everyone hold onto your hats. The Feds are almost certainly going to put their support behind some type of Red Flag legislation as well.

  6. avatar GS650G says:

    Chris Cuomo made threats on camera that were easily believable. Why wasn’t he red flagged?

    1. avatar UpInArms says:

      Because Fredo Cuomo doesn’t own guns. He owns people that own guns.

      1. avatar Hannibal says:

        He certainly claims to own guns. I’m sure they’re fuddtastic ones, but the claim enough should be enough to worry everyone.

    2. avatar Chief Censor says:

      Because Trump and Chris used to hang out.

    3. avatar frank speak says:

      never threatened lethal force (use of a gun)….which is apparently a defining point…

    4. avatar Herb Allen says:

      IIRC, President Trump did announce that he was Red Flagging the lesser of two Cuomos; said Chrissie’s anger management issues made him unfit to own firearms.

      IMHO, Trump is making use of Mitch’s Senate recess (credit where it’s due) to derail the rush toward more background checks & Federal Red Flag. The latter is not about safety, it’s all about the Benjamins as is local enthusiasm for Federal green to finance their own civilian disarmament programs. Money corrupts; Federal money corrupts absolutely.

      On the other hand, sheriffs who defend the Constitution by refusing to carry out confiscation warrants may be our only bulwark against gun grabbers. Love to see a real face-off between them and corrupt police chiefs. And corrupt governors.

  7. avatar Pg2 says:

    No one wants to see the elephant in the room.

    1. avatar Pg2 says:

      Lol, guesty/hank/geoff/huntsman, why are you using my profile name? Must really be hitting a nerve here.

      1. avatar Geoff "Anti-Vaxxers need to get cancer and die" PR says:

        The only elephant in this room is a twit that calls itself Pg2…

        1. avatar Pg2 says:

          The Geoff/hank/guesty/huntsman multi-profile troll using my username and having fake conversations. No wonder some people think gun owners are crazy.

        2. avatar Someone says:

          @Pg2 – Why is it so hard to believe that more than one person is sick and tired of your constant anti vaxxer BS?
          I for one preferred the Pg from years before he went full retard on vaccines.

        3. avatar Pg2 says:

          @someone, I’ve dialed it back, but I still check in for comedy’s sake to see the fake pg2 posts. It’s funny and somewhat creepy at the same time. At the end of the day my point was never about the safety or effectiveness of vaccines, that really is a topic for another forum. Often my comments were heavily trolled by pwrserge and others and discussion morphed into vaccine safety, or lack of it. My point always was the ridiculous flip flop on Rights that some 2A supporters who scream for for gun rights, then defend the government forcing pharmaceutical products in the name of public safety,…public safety being exact same attack used against the 2A.

      2. avatar Hank says:

        I personally like that you’ve now come to include me in your deranged fantasies. That means I’ve greatly upset you. Good. Oh, and you’re a faggot.

        1. avatar Pg2 says:

          Hank, you’re an overvaccinated baboon.

        2. avatar Hank says:

          I take that as a compliment.

        3. avatar Geoff "Hurry-up and *die*, Ruthie" PR says:

          Ever seen documentaries on baboons? They spend their days lazing around constantly banging the female baboons.

          Baboons, unlike Pg2, get laid… 😉

        4. avatar Pg2 says:

          Hank using my username and having fake conversations with it. Priceless.

  8. avatar Texanbychoice says:

    Does anyone else note that the Marine also lost his First Amendment right at the same time?

    Cannot engage in political activism is scarier (to me) than even the lack of due process and intent based policing.

    Not normally a 2A public advocate, this moves me in that direction.

  9. avatar Boba Fett says:

    Red flag laws are every bit as unacceptable as the “No Fly No Buy” laws pitched under Obama. If this horrific nightmare of a gun control scheme ever comes to pass, it will be the beginning of the end of gun rights in this country. Ink always bleeds a little, and every time a new law goes down in the books, you better believe it will extend further than intended.

    1. avatar barnbwt says:

      Trump and Cornyn *also* supported No Fly No Buy after IIRC, the Muslim terrorist attack in California before the election.

  10. avatar Wally1 says:

    It has started, keep your powder dry.

    1. avatar Chief Censor says:

      The red coats are coming… with their red flags and SWAT teams. Thanks, red coats, I mean Republicans.

      1. avatar Geoff "Hurry-up and *die*, Ruthie" PR says:

        You’re a pretty sorry-assed ‘censor’, you know that? All your pathetic whining is so typical for a Leftist… 🙂

        1. avatar Chief Censor says:

          You don’t whine about a patriot getting his guns and free speech taken from him by his government? You support this behavior or are just sitting back and allowing it to happen? I thought it was “all enemies foreign and domestic.” I didn’t know it was only “all Democrats foreign and domestic.”

          You are blind. Even the Republican Dan Crenshaw can see what he is doing. While the Democrats distract you the Republicans pick your pocket.

          Of course I am going to whine about due process being killed in the United States. I will whine until I die. I will make a lot of noise, every way possible.

  11. avatar NORDNEG says:

    The old expression “ never keep all your eggs in one basket “ applies to your weapons also, if they come for your basket, you’ll still have a stash elsewhere…
    Then find out who red flagged you & take appropriate action. Or not…

    1. avatar Chief Censor says:

      What if the people red flagging you are law enforcement? That is why they passed these rules, it’s for them not your ex wife, they just put them on the list to hide the fact law enforcement are the ones coming for your guns.

      1. avatar Victoria Illinois says:

        Nothing will happen until law enforcement and politicians’ families are affected by the red flags. SWATing wasn’t taken seriously until some important people were awakened in the middle of the night and their wife and kids were scared by the raids.

        1. avatar frank speak says:

          that’s already happened…sometimes the FBI just wants to make a point….

    2. avatar Cooter E Lee says:

      Typically a metal detector is only accurate to the depth of the diameter of its coil so 4-18” typically. It gets heavy and tiresome to swing a big coil low and slow and it takes someone to actually know what they are doing to be effective.

      An AR will fit in a capped dvw pipe from hardware stores if you separate upper and lower, take off pistol grip, and take off stock. Either buy a minimalist stock, cut down a cheap one or just leave it off.

      Seed your area with railroad spikes and rebar.
      Good places to hide are under gutter spouts, under metal fenceposts, under a park style barbecue grill. I put up a huge 40 ft flag pole made of metal, I wish I had of thought of using it at the time. If you want to bury something horizontal, buy a long length of metal pipe and trench it. If someone sees a blip on a metal detector, they’re going to assume it’s probably a plumbing fitting or valve as long as you pipe looks plausible like an old septic pipe or something. You can always throw in some scrap decoys along the pipe.

      I’m not against red flags if the accused immediately gets to face their accusers. Simply taking away guns is a stupid strategy to prevent violence. If someone is too dangerous to keep the firearms they own, they are too dangerous to be free in society and that has to be proven beyond reasonable doubt. I give no credit to psychology pseudo-sciences and the so called “experts.”

      1. avatar Manse Jolly says:

        “…If someone is too dangerous to keep the firearms they own, they are too dangerous to be free in society ….”

        Exactly. Arrest should go hand-in-hand with Red Flag laws.

        An arrest starts due process and allows legal remedies. Not that I agree with Red Flag laws, I don’t! But by pushing for arrests to be made confiscations can be minimized to those that are really being wacko.

        The gun-grabbers will never go for arrests in conjunction with any Red flag order. By the gun community pushing this narrative and the grabbers response of “No arrests” will expose them even more.

        Let the arrests begin and we’ll see a quick change of heart to all the grabbers especially when they start to get red flagged.

      2. avatar Ing says:

        I’m not into burying firearms. If it’s time to bury them, then it’s already WAY past time we were shooting them.

  12. avatar Chief Censor says:

    ROFL

    A Marine, wearing a MAGA hat, gets his privileges taken from him by the government using our rulers new rules. Yup, America is becoming great again. Thanks Trump’s FBI for red flagging a patriot.

    It’s not like we didn’t see that coming. It starts with the combat veterans because they will actually fight the government.

    The government is watching you. Your speech is monitored and recorded. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. Don’t post pictures or videos of your weapons if you want to protest or comment in public.

    So it begins…

    1. avatar UpInArms says:

      ” A Marine, wearing a MAGA hat, gets his privileges taken from him by the government using our rulers new rules. Yup, America is becoming great again. Thanks Trump’s FBI for red flagging a patriot. ”

      Well, if that’s supposed to be a slam against Trump, it’s pretty f—-ing weak.

      1) it wasn’t federal law that sealed the deal- it was Oregon law; 2) it’s not Trump’s FBI– they’ve been dirty and corrupt for decades; 3) Red Flag laws are solely the wet dream of the Democrats.

      No big fan of Trump here, but fair is fair.

      1. avatar Chief Censor says:

        Trump hired the guy that runs the FBI. Trump said take the guns first then due process. Trump said we need gun confiscation powers, then we got 12 more states following his demands.

        Republicans are writing, passing and advocating for red flag laws. Look at the ex SEAL, Dan Crenshaw. That includes the NRA. The NRA isn’t a Democrat non for profit, right? The reason Trump called for red flag laws after Parkland is because the NRA said it was a good idea.

        I think confiscating patriots’ guns (and removing their free speech) is a huge deal, thus a major slam against Trump. The United States was created over such orders.

    2. avatar tdiinva says:

      We have our test case. You can bet that the SAF/GOA are going to take this case to federal court. He threatened no one. He simply stated his that he would defend himself against ANTIFA violence. I would not be surprised if this wasn’t a setup to gain standing to challenge the law.

    3. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

      “The government is watching you. Your speech is monitored and recorded. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.”

      All un Constitutionally as the amendments violated are prohibitions on the governments infringement there of.

    4. avatar frank speak says:

      and this was brought to you by a republican…something to remember…

  13. avatar 2aguy says:

    The 7th is in violation of the Supreme Court several times over….Heller for one, then Caetano, and Miller and even Scalia explaining that these are protected rifles in Friedman v Highland Park…… the left wing circuits are hoping that 1) the supreme court won’t take the cases because of their still 4 left wing justices and 2) that Roberts will bow to public pressure, and not the Constitution, and allow these rulings to stand…….since the Chief Justice picks the cases the other Justices vote on for review…

    1. avatar CarlosT says:

      The Chief Justice does not pick cases. Whether the Supreme Court hears a case is determined by a vote of the Justices on if they will grant a Writ of Certiorari. This is colloquially known as “granting Cert.” The Chief Justice has one vote of equal weight in that process.

      That said, I agree that the Supreme Court has no credibility on gun rights. After Heller and MacDonald, the lower courts did exactly what they felt like, and the Supreme Court just stood by and watched.

      1. avatar Geoff "Hurry-up and *die*, Ruthie" PR says:

        “The Chief Justice does not pick cases.”

        True, Carlos, but he can damn sure vote with the Left wing of the court, like he did on the ACA…

        1. avatar MarkPA says:

          The problem, more specifically is that there are:
          – 4 reliable left-wing justices
          – 4 reliable right-wing justices
          – 1 “swing” justice.

          Kennedy was the swing justice until he resigned. Now, Roberts is deemed to be the swing justice. (He might have been a swinger before Kennedy resigned as well.)

          It takes 4 to grant cert. So, the way it works is that the 4 liberals try to predict how Roberts will vote. The 4 conservatives try to predict how Roberts will vote.

          If the 4 liberals think Roberts will vote with them they 4 will vote to grant cert and then they will see if they predicted correctly.

          If the 4 conservatives . . .

          If neither of the two groups of 4 feels comfortable predicting Robert’s vote then one of the 4 will vote to NOT grant cert because they are not confident that Roberts will join them.

          The reason Heller and McDonald got cert is that the 4 conservatives felt comfortable that Kennedy would vote with them. They put there money down on Kennedy and we won.

          But, we could have lost. If the conservatives mis-judged Kennedy then Kennedy could have set-back 2A rights for decades; maybe even a century.

  14. avatar Timothy Toroian says:

    These dunces aren’t real bright. They seem to have forgotten or not read the second paragraph of the Declaration of Independence and IT IS BLATANTLY OBVIOUS THEY DO NOT COMPREHEND THE UTILITY OF THE 2ND! If you haven’t read that second paragraph recently do yourself a favor and do so. It can be a refreshing refresher.

    1. avatar Victoria Illinois says:

      They don’t care. Whether they’re bright or not, they’re going to do what they want. Illegal immigration is illegal. Why are there sanctuary cities and states? If you smash your hard drive and hide evidence, you’ll go to jail. Guess who wasn’t afraid to do that? It works for them. Usually does: Ted Kennedy & Mary Jo Kopechne?

  15. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

    You Hillbillies and Jethro’s just don’t get it, do you? Let me dumb it down for you.

    In January 2021 when Kamala Harris is sworn into office, your guns – all your damn guns ARE FORFEIT. These red flag laws are a very small part of what is to happen in the rebuilding of this country. We, the POC, the immigrants you have tried to keep out, the indigenous peoples who you have stolen this land from, WE will be in power and you, white racists/supremacists will tremble and shake and weep. Because your guns will all be taken from you. Your children will be educated the “right” way to ensure that guns are not only banned items but the term “gun” never, ever be used again in the English language. But we, the people, will not stop with your guns, we will deem any item of aggression illegal and subject to confiscation. Your Ford F-150’s and your Dodge Rams will be confiscated because of the tendency of aggression when a white racist/supremacist is behind the wheel. These symbols of power need to be banned so that we can return this country to a land of peace and harmony. Remember, we do not fear your guns, but you white racist/supremacist will fear our numbers and our power in government and the internet. We control the media and thus, we control you. 200 million+ guns cannot stand in the way of the media and humanity. We are the future and you are 2 years away from being obsolete. Sweet dreams.

    1. avatar OBOB says:

      Kameltoe Harryass the whore become prez—
      now I know you are loosing it…

      she does not have a chance in hell unless someone kills off 50 of her DNC competition or something???

      1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

        The Hairy Kameltow will be president she will be president in my mommy’s basement and she will tell me I am a bad boy and she will hurt me so good.

    2. avatar Old Guy in Montana says:

      You keep using the acronym “POC” to refer to you and your Klanmates…

      Piece O Crap…
      People of China…
      Probability Over Cause…
      Picked On Children…
      People Of Communism…
      ???

      Your communication skills are a colossal fail.

      1. avatar James Campbell says:

        I think it’s for “posting online cluelessly”. I mean, K Harris as POTUS? This idiot admitted to getting so high in college, she heard Tupacs music before he wrote recorded it. Idiots like vlad think KH will set them free? Look at how many were locked up for drug possession while she was a stoned Cali DA. Made that REALLY simple so even glad t can understand it.

      2. avatar Ing says:

        Vladdie magically became a POC only a few weeks ago. For months before that, no mention of it at all. Then one day, wham! He’s special just like Kamala Harris now.

        I’m thinking I might try it too.

        After all, my ancestors lived on American soil when New York was still New Amsterdam. If 300+ years can’t make you a native, then nothing can. So from here on out, I’m publicly claiming my true native American identity.

        1. avatar Old Guy in Montana says:

          Vladimir does seem somewhat flexible in his / her self-identification…always touting the latest DNC hyperbole…owns firearms – doesn’t own firearms, human life is precious – wants to kill conservatives, War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery and, his / her personal fave, Ignorance is Strength.

    3. avatar R says:

      Vlad-
      Thank you for reminding us why racists feel the way they do about you.
      Carry on.

    4. avatar Dixie Doodle says:

      You are a mongrel and you can have this wasteland that your POC, and politicians have turned it into. I’d rather die fighting than live with trash.

    5. avatar Someone says:

      This is too cleverly written to be authored by the real Vlad. Not enough logical inconsistency, childish insults and crimes against grammar. Sounds more like 2asux.

    6. avatar Paco says:

      Trump is going to be re-elected, put it in the bank. His Israel first policies have guaranteed his re-election.

  16. avatar Fyathyrio says:

    I hear lots of noise, but don’t see many solutions suggested. Which way do we, as gun owners, want it? Yes, the current crop of RFLs without any included due process or punishment for false accusations, are vile as written. But, the alternative, as I see it, is warning the potential subject of an upcoming investigation.

    When that asshair in Parkland shot up the school, every law enforcement agency in the general vicinity up to and including the FBI was warned about turdlips before he went off. Anybody with any interaction with the wet fart knew he was dangerous. We gun owners all happily crowed about how the existing laws didn’t work, but what law (in an RFL context, not overall) was in place to stop the dickhead from attacking the school? Douche nozzle in Sandy Hook was pretty much the same. There’s currently nothing between being so fawked up you get involuntarily jammed in an asylum, or a getting a stern talking to with no legal support behind the official running his jaw. RFLs are supposed to bridge that gap, but are being implemented wrongly and used (at least in this example) to quell political speech. How can the law be worded to protect the rights of shitdicks like those mentioned above along with the rest of us, yet still be useful at hopefully stopping said shitdicks?

    Oh, and if I’m such a danger to society merely because I own guns, why are the Dems antagonizing me so much?

    1. avatar Chief Censor says:

      Assault with a deadly weapon was one. Another was the Baker Act.

      Red flag laws are the transition from innocent until proven guilty legal system to a guilty until proven innocent system.

      No one who supports and defends human rights would advocate for any type of red flag law. You never give up your rights to empower government to oppress you.

  17. avatar Seizure doc says:

    We can make red flag laws difficult to enforce. We need to report every liberal that says something crazy. Madonna wants to blow up the White House, red flag.
    When the police get about a billion of these complaints maybe they will cry uncle. Then we double down and start reporting every gang banger we see. Some of us have more contact than others depending on where we live. Think the police want to enforce these laws in Chicago ?
    Everything the left does needs to be turned back on them. A story on this site mentioned a kid suspended from school for a gun finger gesture. See that all the time in Hollywood. That is how we beat this. We cannot depend on the vote. Like Mark Twain said, “if it mattered who you vote for, they wouldn’t let you vote.”

    1. avatar Chief Censor says:

      Is that why Republicans don’t want felons to have their right to vote?

  18. avatar David Bradford says:

    More and more I find myself biting my tongue and not jumping in with my personal views on some of the more vitriolic comments being post in various gun related sites. I have some very strong opinions but I am realizing that expressing the with the fervor I feel may well be counter productive to myself and the causes I feel need championing such as the fight to protect your, mine, and our 1st and 2nd amendment rights. Red Flag laws need to be fought but we need to protect ourselves and our arms from their abuse. Parse your words. Don’t give them the ammunition to take you down with. If you are planning on burying your gun make it impossible for them to find. Consider doing it in remote areas with public access like wooded highway medians or seldom used areas of state parks(TIP: leave your cell phone behind and use a borrowed vehicle to prevent having you destination tracked after the fact) . Places where they are very unlikely to be disturbed buy construction projects or otherwise accidentally discovered. Rent a post hole digger and bury them in PVC pipe vertically. Form a Gun Trust with 1 or more trusted brothers in arms or close family members not living with you and list the guns, ammo and supplies. If they do come for you and take your weapons they have to turn them over to a member of the trust who also own the items. I’m uncertain if they can remove you from the Trust, but I am certain they can’t remove the weapons. Be smart, be safe, keep your powder dry and sue the bastards till they can’t pee straight.

    1. avatar James Campbell says:

      Excellent point about the trust. I intend on putting all of my firearms into a three member trust when my youngest son turns 21 (a few months away).
      Everyone should consider this option.

    2. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

      To Dave Bragford. Keyboard Commando extraordinaire.

      Your a real trip. Obviously on LSD.

      Fact: If they ban assault rifles what would be the use of trying to hide them. You could never dig them up and use them or even attempt to sell them if you needed cash and your so called friends and neighbors would be the first to stab you in the back and rat on you to the cops when you did not turn them in. The idea of the unregistered firearm to be used in a coming revolution makes great movies and books but only the mentally ill would believe such hog wash.

      1. avatar David Bradford says:

        Gang bangers and drug pushers seem to fair just fine with their illegally held guns. I don’t see it being any more of a problem for patriots.

        Now, take your pills and go lie down before you hurt yourself.(you brain addled moron)

        1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

          I know all about being mentally ill and believing hogwash and taking pills and hurting myself. When the Hairy Kameltow is president she will give me free pills but until then I will be paid by the word.

    3. avatar fran speak says:

      really…it’s pretty simple if resistance is your goal….buy all the guns you can…anyway you can…and hide them everywhere you can….make it impossible for them to totally disarm you….

  19. avatar jbob says:

    We really need to protest this for the unconstitutionality of it.

  20. avatar George Washington says:

    The longer we sit by, while they keep enacting laws that target law abiding citizens, the further we will fall into totalitarianism.
    Nobody to blame but yourselves….

  21. avatar Marine with a detailed plan says:

    I believe what got the Marine in trouble was this portion of his commentary, “I have a detailed plan on how I would wipe out antics”. Mass shooters often have detailed plans whereas people just running their don’t. That’s probably what the FBI was interested in seeing.

    1. avatar frank speak says:

      ….choose your words carefully….

  22. avatar Ed Schrade says:

    This is off topic but I just saw that the Odessa shooter was identified as Seth Ator, 36 yr. old caucassion.

  23. avatar Brewski says:

    Apparently words are enough for the FBI to seize your firearms.

    This marine stated he would kill Antifa in self defense and that was enough. The irony is the FBI hasn’t done anything against Antifa would routinely assaults unarmed citizens. The FBI is not your friend.

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/former-marines-weapons-seized-under-oregons-red-flag-law-after-remarks-about-antifa-report.amp

  24. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

    qupte:—————Instead, the judiciary protects the status quo–however they perceive it–with nigh-on paternal passion. So the lower court buries its head, and the Supreme Court ignores the appeal, leaving the lower court decision to stand. The federal courts are supposed to be checks on abuses of government power, not a rubber stamp mill.—————–quote

    The last paragraph of the article simply paraphrases what I have been saying over and over and that is the courts never met a gun ban they did not love and they love to shit on the Second Amendment. And of course vote with public opinion so they can stay in power. And who can blame them when the weapon of choice for mass murder is the AR-15 Rifle

    Poway: AR 15

    Aurora: AR 15

    Orlando: AR 15

    Parkland: AR15

    Los Vegas: AR15

    Sandy Hook: AR15

    Waffle House: AR15

    San Bernadino: AR15

    Midland/Odessa: AR15

    Sutherland Springs: AR15

    Tree of Life Synagogue: AR15

    1. avatar ozzallos says:

      Don’t worry, I’ll play with you.

      Handgun murders still outstrip any rifle usage by a huge margin according to FBI statistics. In 2017 that ratio was 11,000 handgun murders to 403 rifle murders. In comparison, more people died to knives and fists (not combined) than AR15s. I’d offer more updated statistics, but 2018 is still in the works. In either case, rifle murders would have to increase twenty-seven times what it was in 2017 for ARs to even be a blip on the radar. I don’t think an easy ten thousand people died in any of the incidents you listed above.

      This isn’t even counting that one can murder more people by arson than any single incident you listed above, reference the Kyoto Animation arson attack, July 18th, 2019. I don’t think there’s a need to mention that Japan has some of the strictest firearms laws in existence.

      In France, a man simply driving a truck killed 74 people on July 15, 2016. That’s a higher body count than all the murders in your listing combined. That was the third such incident. Speaking of vehicles, more people died in the US by car crash in 2017 than by firearms; roughly 30,000 thousand to cars and 15,000 to firearm murders (of all types).

      You can chant AR all you want, but the facts are there its not the weapon of choice when it comes to mass casualties.

      1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

        You mention arson and vehicle homicide. Those are far more easily defended against than a nut with an assault rifle. In France after the truck tragedy they became much more sophisticated with road blocks at large public gatherings which by the way worked and in Japan the building was not equipped with fire alarms that were working and the doors were open to the public when they should have had a buzz in lock and perhaps a security guard as well.

        You can rant nonsensically all you want about people dying of infected hang nails and other such nonsense but it is the assault rifle that is the weapon of choice now in the U.S. and its a war machine designed for mass killing which it does very well. No amount of Right Wing nonsensical propaganda can validate even owning one. They are not necessary for self defense or hunting.

        I might add two World Wars were fought with largely only bolt action rifles proving the self defense bullshit by the Far Right is just that plain bullshit.

        And as far as hunting the bulk of the worlds big game were killed off to the point of extinction with single shot rifles, the American Buffalo comes to mind as just one of hundreds..

        1. avatar Someone says:

          2nd amendment is not about self defense against crime or hunting. That’s just a perk. It protects the right of the people to own and carry arms for shooting the enemies of the free state. (If there is many of them, it might require mass shooting them as fast as possible.)
          Anyone who read the Federalist and Anti Federalist papers knows that it talks about military style weapons. And not just rifles either!

        2. avatar Someone says:

          “I might add two World Wars were fought with largely only bolt action rifles proving the self defense bullshit by the Far Right is just that plain bullshit.”

          The more you post, the more ignorance you prove.
          Yes, the personal weapon in both wars was mainly a bolt action repeater. (Except for the US troops in WII.) But these wars were fought mainly with artillery, fully automatic weapons like machineguns and especially in WWII submachine guns, aircrafts and warships. The WWII also with tanks.

          You know nothing, blood sucker!

        3. avatar Ozzallos says:

          This is called “Moving the goal posts”.

          You specifically point out peace time casualties to illustrate the evils of the gun, then when faced with pushback, move the goal posts to wartime scenarios in an apples to oranges comparison, specifically the evil US military complex lol.

          But don’t worry, I’ve got your back. Under Mao Zedong’s rule, it is estimated that 65 million Chinese died in his peacetime push to socialism. Stalin and his social reforms killed at a minimum of 20 million. No war the United States has ever been involved in has generated these number of casualties inflicted on either itself or its enemy. Not the Indians. Not the Vietnam War. Nothing compares to the self-inflicted mass murders of these two communist states, both of which still continue an active policy of political dissident disappearance.

          I’d also wager that the AK47 has taken more lives than any US M16/AR15 rifle with over 75-100 million built and distributed at an average cost of $160. But sure, focus on that them there evil US military like an ignorant pleb. And hunting. lol. I go through all the trouble to back up and source my figures and you bust out with ‘but the buffaloz!’?

          That’s what nobody is talking to you. You’re not even making it worth our time.

        4. avatar ozzallos says:

          Even worse, you’re actually using WW2 as an example of US gun totalitarianism? lol? Because last I checked, every country and their mother was using a gun to stop Hitler from steam rolling over Europe and the USSR. Guess who was happily embracing guns when the German Army was trying to fap all over Stalingrad? Bet China loved themselves some gun after the Rape of Nanjing

          Seriously. You can’t Jedi mind trick your way out of history.

    2. avatar Someone says:

      It sure seems like AR15 is the gun of choice of mass murderers. But is it? Isn’t it just an illusion created by the mainstream media by burrying inconvenient stories and over reporting stories that help to push their disarmist agenda?
      The fact is that more mass murders (4 killled by the same perp) are commited with handguns than all rifles together. But you would never guessed it based on the news.

      Now inevitable question is why leftists want to get our semi auto rifles illegal first? Some argue that the “ban handguns” model lost, so the gun grabbers moved to lower hangin fruits. I see a different reason. SA rifles are the arm most usefull for service in militias (and therefore most strongly protected by the 2A). What are the chances of success of uprising armed with handguns?

  25. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

    The Supreme Court loves gun bans so much they struck down the Washington DC ban on handguns because it was not strict enough.

  26. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

    Nobody’s replying to me, I feel so lonely…

  27. avatar MEGA MAN says:

    Red Flag laws are just another flavor of Temporary Restraining Orders. This judicial devices are used by vindictive women to ruin the lives of men they are estranged from. Stay strong brothers, and never marry a women you do not share a worldview with. Amazing sex is not worth the crAZY that will come in a few years.

    1. avatar frank speak says:

      you never really know a woman till you meet her in court….

  28. avatar ozzallos says:

    Can I get a Red Flag law on cars? Because cars killed double the number of people in 2017 than were murdered by guns.

    It’s not that the idea of a Red Flag law isn’t at least merited, just that we don’t trust anybody in the government to implement without agenda or bias to screw us over later on down the road.

  29. avatar Dixie Doodle says:

    Lot of articles in this newsletter about why we should be afraid of the pussy democrats confiscating our guns. I have news for you….it’s the pussies who should be afraid. I never meet a single person who plans on turning over anything.

  30. avatar Kap says:

    You can just bet the Democrats are going to go after the ex Combat veteran first because if they exercise their 1st amendment right by saying stupid things (with no provable intent too follow through) makes them loose their 2 A rights and a check mark beside their name forever! Democrats are so out of touch with reality that they should tread very lightly Molon Labe, Non Sibi Sed Patraie!

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