Florida SWAT Team Shoots and Kills Unarmed Pot Dealer


By Phillip Smith [Article reprinted with permission from StoptheDrugWar.org]

A Volusia County sheriff’s deputy on a dawn SWAT team pot raid shot and killed an unarmed resident of the home Tuesday. Derek Cruice, 26, becomes the 10th person to die in US domestic drug law enforcement operations so far this year. According to The Daytona Beach News-Journal, Cruice was unarmed and no weapons were found in the house. Police did find about nine ounces of marijuana, as well as a scale, a drug ledger, marijuana smoking pipes, plastic bags and about $3,000 in cash. Sheriff Ben Johnson said that Deputy Todd Raible, a member of the Sheriff’s Office SWAT Team, shot Cruice in the face as the SWAT team came through the door of the residence at 6:30 a.m. . . .

“They (deputies) were met with resistance and a shooting occurred,” Johnson said without offering further detail. He said he could not elaborate because his office had not yet interviewed Deputy Raible.

But sheriff’s spokesman Gary Davidson added that Raible fired his weapon after perceiving Cruice’s actions as a threat.

Cruice was pronounced dead at Florida Hospital Fish Memorial in Orange City.

“The deputy, he’s all right, actually he is very shaken,” Johnson offered.

Sheriff Johnson said Cruice was listed in the search warrant as the subject of an ongoing “narcotics” investigation. He was one of six adults—four men and two women—in the house when deputies arrived.

Matt Grady, 24, was another one of them. He said he was awakened by banging on the door and opened it.

“A bunch of guys came around the corner and they are pushing me down,” Grady said. “And as I was going down on my knee I heard gunfire,” he told The News-Journal.

Steven Cochran, 24, was another resident. He said Cruice was not resisting anything.

“He had no weapons on him or in the house,” Cochran said. “Nobody was making any kind of resistance or keeping them from doing their job.”Cruice had been working as a delivery driver at Monster Pizza in Deltona. His co-worker, Thomas Figueroa, who had known him for nine years, stopped by the scene and broke down crying behind the yellow crime scene tape.

“He is not the kind of person that would do that (attack a deputy),” he said, adding that the pizza shop had closed for the day to mark Cruice’s death.

Deputy Raible, 36, is now on administrative leave, as is standard for deputy-involved shootings. The Florida Department of Law Enforcement will investigate the death because a police officer was involved.


  1. avatar Frank says:

    I wonder if the deputy was practicing safe weapons handling or if he had his finger on the trigger and tightened his grip on his weapon when he saw the guy, causing him to squeeze the trigger without meaning to?

    1. avatar Ray Ficara says:

      MUCH more likely he’s a half-assed self-styled “operator” like 99% of urban SWAT guys and was relying on his “qualified immunity”. There is NO damned reason for a MINOR drug bust to use SWAT. SWAT was developed solely for barricaded hostage situations and large scale offenses like bank robberies. Then about 30 years ago they started to deploy SWAT against “those people” until we became complacent with the routine use of SWAT. NOW that SWAT is gunning down civilians over minor offenses or to serve warrants we begin to complain?


      1. avatar Jiz says:


        you’re making a lot of sense here sir!

        1. avatar Jus Bill says:

          That IS sensible. That’s why Mr. & Mrs. America will not complain. Until their “precious little snowflake” catches one in the front hall from one of these “operator as fsck” cowards.

          Maybe more training and less late-night partying would help things improve. Along with some trials, jail time and pension loss.

      2. avatar Chris says:

        i’ve been complaining as long as I’ve been an adult. 24 years and counting.

        “THEY” just don’t listen.

    2. avatar AllAmerican says:

      I wonder whats so hard about putting out a warrant for his arrest, wait till he leaves to go somewhere, and then simply pull him over with a regular black and white. There really is no reason for 90% of “swat” teams to exist, there’s plenty of routine police practices that can account for what they’re often used for these days.

      1. avatar JasonM says:

        But then the cops don’t get the excitement of clearing a house, throwing people to the ground, and shooting a guy in the face.

        1. avatar outwardhound says:

          You forgot “and throw a flash bang into a baby crib.”

        2. avatar adam says:

          …and shooting their dog

        3. avatar natermer says:

          And the extra pay they get for participating in a SWAT raid.

        4. avatar James St. John says:

          …and doing it a 6am right before shift change to collect all the overtime.

        5. avatar int19h says:

          It’s more than excitement. They also get a lot more fodder for asset forfeiture that way.

          For the same reason, they often wait until the drug dealer actually sold off the drugs before doing a raid. Drugs, being illegal, cannot be forfeited, but money from selling them can!

      2. avatar Bob says:

        It’s like what the founders said of in opposition of having a standing army: “standing armies get tired of standing around.” SWAT teams also get tired of standing around.

        1. avatar Another Robert says:

          “You can do anything with a bayonet except sit on it.”

      3. avatar ralph says:

        “But sheriff’s spokesman Gary Davidson added that Raible fired his weapon after perceiving Cruice’s actions as a threat.”
        I would suppose that this means that we can use deadly force against them when we perceive them as a threat. That sounds absolutely fair and reasonable to me.

        1. avatar John in Ohio says:

          If that were the case then I would be shooting all day long in some parts of Ohio.

        2. avatar Darren says:

          Has happened in Tx twice. Homeowner shot sheriff in self defense, no charges.

        3. avatar DMB says:

          You leave out a lot of facts about the texas shooting. The cops deserved getting shot and I don’t say that lightly. Instead of peacefully serving a search warrant during the day, the cops decided to storm the guys place at night. The cops tossed in multiple flash bang grenades and stormed the guys house. He responded in kind and the courts found him NOT GUILTY.

    3. avatar Cuteandfuzzybunnies says:

      There is nothing safe or sensible. These guys had 9 ounces of pot. They are calling them dealers. Maybe but very small time. I grantee they would not get approval for that kind of man power to recover anything less than several pounds here. I believe agrivated possession in my state(Tx) is 25 pounds or more. The feed consider 50 pounds or more a big enough deal to get involved with.
      To have swat team in this guys house made no sense. They should have waited outside to catch any runners and then he a couple guys order people out of the house for a search. The kids yes kids in there would not have given them any trouble.

      1. avatar Another Robert says:

        I don’t know what you mean by “aggravated”, but the last I checked (which admittedly was a couple years ago), anything more than 4 ounces of marijuana was a felony. Nine ounces can be quite a bit when you’re talking about dried leaves. The purpose of the raid is really kind of a side issue tho, the operative question is whether the deceased was any kind of threat to the officers.

        1. avatar Geoff PR says:

          The higher-grade dope isn’t the leaves, it’s the dried flowers (buds) that are heavy with the resin.

          Much more dense than dried leaves.

          As I recall from the ’80s.


      2. avatar int19h says:

        Even if he had a ton of weed in his house, why would it justify a raid? Selling weed is not a violent crime (that it’s a crime at all is ridiculous, but I digress).

    4. avatar Grindstone says:


  2. avatar Evan says:

    Remember marajuana is a highly deadly drug. It kills all who smoke it. So those men from the government had to come and help. For the children.

    1. avatar ToddR says:

      People who smoke that demon-weed are prone to just go crazy and do radically violent things. Never take your eye off of the dope-smoking dude laying on the couch.

      1. avatar Bryan says:

        Eating Dorito’s. There finished that sentence for you.

      2. avatar Soccerchainsaw says:

        Reefer madness, man…

    2. avatar neiowa says:

      Really? I thought a slight odor of tobacco will kill all but smoking pot was really great?

      Babyboomer potheads.

      1. avatar natermer says:

        Well each drug has their own dangers.

        Smoking cigerettes cause physical addiction and lung cancer.

        Smoking pot can cause you to get shot by a cop.

      2. avatar Taz says:

        Do some research. Nicotine is a very powerful poison and tobacco use causes cancer and millions have died from its use. I lost my father and one of my grandfathers from tobacco related cancers.

        Cannabis has over 200 proven medical applications, but since the pharmaceutical industry can’t profit from its use it is illegal. You must think you have the right to dictate morality like the misguided people who gave us prohibition. All you accomplish is the enrichment of the drug dealers, as was the result of prohibition. Organized crime grew exponentially from the revenue from bootlegging.

    3. avatar Grindstone says:

      I knew a girl who smoked two marijuanas and dieded.

      1. avatar John in Ohio says:

        If one injects three marijuanas then it becomes a problem.

        1. avatar Former Water Walker says:

          Don’t laugh too hard…had an idiot buddy back in the early 70’s who boiled some pot down and shot it up-got deathly ill for about 3hours. Duh.

        2. avatar John in Ohio says:

          It’s a play on a meme.

          There are many things, once injected, do nasty things to the human body. The first week of pharmacology at medical school we were told that if aspirin were to come on the market today it would certainly be prescription only.

          But yeah, boiling down weed to inject? That’s some interesting thought process going on there. 🙂

      2. avatar Anonymous says:

        If she died from two marihuanas then there was probably more than marihuana in them.

  3. avatar Chip Bennett says:

    “The deputy, he’s all right, actually he is very shaken,” Johnson offered.

    Yes, most people would be shaken up after unjustifiably shooting someone else, and killing them.

    Someone please remind me: why are we sending SWAT teams to serve warrants for petty marijuana dealers?

    1. avatar BlueBronco says:

      When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. These teams are expensive to upkeep and they have to justify themselves.

    2. Because they’re there. Use ’em or lose ’em.

    3. avatar KingSarc48625 says:

      Safer for the SWAT teams. Nobody wants to take on armed crack dealers. This way they can play dress up AND go home at the end of the day.

    4. avatar george from fort worth says:

      uuhhhmm, that would be, “surprise, overwhelming force, violence of action.” the cops are so pumped-up and afraid, that it may even be fatal to ask, “who are you?” we had an episode some years back in a smaller municipality, where cops stopped a speeder, and approached the car with cocked pistols. the driver was told,
      “look straight ahead, hands on the steering wheel, don’t move.” the driver turned to face the cop, and BANG. cop goes home safely that night.

      1. avatar James St. John says:

        Cop should have been taken out behind the wood shed and buried.

    5. avatar JasonM says:

      At least the cop didn’t take the corpse on a 45 minute drive to his lawyer’s office.

    6. avatar Wade says:

      It`s a money thing, as I understand it. The more drug offenses a swat /police dept. gets used on, the more money they lay claim to.
      Honestly, it`s like the New York thing,when the Police go so far overboard,they should be shot. It does wonders to make them(or anyone else) stop and rethink things.
      I`m all for law and order,but we are low on the order and close to zero justice these days. Just read the protests in WA had snipers covering them. Is that a mark of justice and a free nation ? (Tweets on Western Rifle shooters)

    7. avatar doesky2 says:

      Let me guess….

      ….this TWAT team was wearing and carrying 100K$+ worth of gear and guns but couldn’t afford any 1K$ body cams. I’m not shocked.

  4. avatar Vhyrus says:

    Killed for something that will probably be legal within a decade.

    1. avatar Benny the Jew says:

      My thoughts exactly. Murdered over f___ing pot. Boy, I sure feel a lot safer.

      1. avatar Grindstone says:

        Land of the free*!

        *Terms and conditions apply

        1. avatar John in Ohio says:

          Subject to GOP, DNC, DHS, FDA, BATFE, FCC, EPA, etc approval. 😉

  5. avatar BlueBronco says:

    Nothing will happen because Grand Juries in Florida rarely bring charges. Use of force is stacked in favor of LEO doing such raids in this state. Using this kind of tactics to interdict 9 ounces of pot is insane. It sounds like a tactical team trying to justify its existence.

    1. avatar full.tang.halo says:

      While correct it is not for the reason you state.

      Florida Grand Juries are only required to be brought in for indictment on a capital offense. So unless this was somehow Murder in the 1st degree, it is up to the district attorney to bring charges.

      1. avatar BlueBronco says:

        You are incorrect. Police shootings get reviewed by the Grand Jury in Florida.

        1. avatar BlueBronco says:

          That includes cases where people are wounded or eve missed like this case where the officer fired 2 rounds into a car but missed. The made no decision one way or the other in this case which is rare.


        2. avatar Blain Cooper says:

          Grand juries are nothing more than tools of the state prosecutor:


        3. avatar James St. John says:

          proscecuters can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich, unless the ham sandwich has a badge.

  6. avatar LarryinTX says:

    Even this description sounds very much like murder, and I think the law would discover that the rest of the team are just as guilty of murder as the guy who pulled the trigger. I suspect, however, that they will be charged with investigating themselves, and will find themselves innocent of anything. Disgusting.

  7. avatar BSB says:

    Well at least the deputy went home to his family… (end sarcasm)

  8. avatar tdiinvaaa says:

    The first reports from scene are always wrong. A couple of days ago the usual crowd was up in arms about the homeless man in LA murdered by the police. How did that work out for you? I am not saying that this was justified. I only want more information than is included in this post before rendering judgement.

    1. avatar Another Robert says:

      How DID that homeless guy thing work out?

      1. avatar tdiinva says:

        The poor innocent homeless black man turned out to be a fugitive bank robber who had stolen the identity of a French citizen.

        Tell you what. I will give anyone $2 for every news story claiming police murder that turns out to be true and you pay me $1 for every one that turns out to be justified. Given the statistics I expect that my ammo fund to get rather fat.

        Given recent events it is wise to wait for all the evidence rather than jump to your preconceived conclusion.

        1. avatar Another Robert says:

          Hold off a bit. I was just asking. I thought the vid in the original post gave some indication that the guy had or had grabbed a gun. That still seems to be the story, and if so, then the shooting looks justified. I will say the facts that the guy had a bank robbery conviction and was an illegal immigrant do not, in themselves, add anything to whether or not the shooting was actually justified.

        2. avatar Model 31 says:

          Considering the upcoming ammo bans, your ammo fund is going to get fat anyway.

        3. avatar Blain Cooper says:

          Being a fugitive is punishable by summary execution. Check.

        4. avatar JasonM says:

          If the cops (whether the same department or not) get to decide whether it’s justified, then yes, you’ll get rich. If not you’ll be in the poor house in a week.

          The LA shooting isn’t justified just because the guy was a suspected felon. The only thing that would justify it would be if he actually grabbed that cop’s gun. I could hear the cop screaming about his gun, but the video was too blurry to see if it was true. But a simple fingerprint test on the gun and holster could clear everything up.

        5. avatar BlueBronco says:

          Blue on blue crime including murder would probably surprise you.

        6. avatar Mark N. says:

          And just to add, according to a subsequent report I read, the involved officer’s gun was found on inspection to have a stove pipe and another round jammed in the throat. Which suggests that the officer’s gun was the first shot heard, and that one of them had his hand on the slide when it occurred, with the other four shots from another officer following immediately thereafter.

    2. avatar chuck (hates nj) says:

      While I believe in waiting for as much evidence as possible before passing judgement. There’s no reason for these swat team raids looking for pot.

      1. avatar Chip Bennett says:

        There’s no reason for these swat team raids looking for pot.


      2. avatar Bdk NH says:

        +1. Couldn’t have said it better myself.

      3. avatar Delmarva Chip says:


      4. avatar J. Zoss says:

        That is indeed the issue that needs to be fixed and then we won’t have these shootings that some people can still find justifiable.

  9. avatar Ragnarredbeard says:

    “The deputy, he’s all right, actually he is very shaken,” Johnson offered.

    And the unarmed guy who answered the door and got shot in the face? Screw him. 🙁

  10. avatar Gman says:

    Is this the America we want?

    1. avatar BDub says:

      No, but it is certainly the America we have.

      1. avatar natermer says:

        My America is different from the Swat team’s America.

        In my America we have freedom of expression and each person has the right to decide their own right and wrongs as long as it doesn’t endanger anybody else’s well being.

        In my America we have the attitude of ‘live and let live’.

        In my America we have the attitude of ‘no harm, no foul’.

        In THEIR America laws get enforced even if the laws are immoral, useless, or arbitrary. In THEIR America they will support a women’s right over their body to kill a unborn fetus, but will violently react and kill/imprison people when somebody uses their body for recreational drugs or smoking indoors. They will fight for their right to have their marriages recorded, regulated, and taxed by the state and force other people to honor them even if they have religious convictions.

        I really don’t know what THEY want in THEIR America, but I sure as hell wish they’d just fuck off. I don’t want to have anything to do with them.

    2. avatar JWM says:

      The AI is found of blaming the residents of places like CA for the mess the politicians have made here. So, using that logic, yes, this is the country we want. Or we’d change it.

  11. avatar Scythian Arrows says:

    Whew, I feel so much safer knowing that 9oz. of marijuana has been taken off of our streets by our brave police officers!

  12. avatar Jon says:

    Devils advocate:
    They had a ledger. (according to the article)

    Could have already moved it all.

    No weapons were found… Some deals without protection??

    Could be a “shell house”.
    I also agree with tdiinva…. To little info.

    1. avatar Chip Bennett says:

      And the option for surveillance, and serving the warrant when the petty pot dealer leaves the house, is impractical… why, exactly?

      1. C’mon Chip! Public safety man!

        1. avatar Jus Bill says:

          Yeah – LOOK AT THIS BABY! [In Georgia…]

    2. avatar KCK says:

      Devils Devil Advocate.
      Legalize pot.

      1. I am as of 2015 against the war on drugs. I am not all in on legalizing drugs though. Here is my take. I would not make it a crime, misdemeanor or otherwise, to induce any substance into your own body. On the other hand I would not allow business licenses to drug dealers. Of course that would be up to the local City and State. But if my community does not allow a brick and mortar business selling non prescribed drugs across the street from the middle school, don’t go all law suit happy screaming unconstitutionality.

        1. avatar Gov. William J. Le Petomane says:

          Decriminalization promotes drug use more than legalization because there is no taxation and no risk. If you can get drunk for $20 or get high for $5 there are a lot of people who will choose to get high instead of getting drunk. Not that getting drunk is a good thing, but getting drunk has immediate and unpleasant consequences. Anyway, when I buy a case of beer I pay alcohol tax and then I pay sales tax on the alcohol tax and I pay income tax on the alcohol and sales taxes. I’d personally be offended if we just turn a blind eye toward people taking tax free drugs.

        2. avatar JasonM says:

          The Governor is correct. I’ll give him a harrumph for that.

          Additionally, full legalization reduces usage by the underage (think of the children!!). Ask a 15 year old which is most difficult for him to buy: pot, cocaine, meth, ecstasy, or beer and you’ll be surprised. Circle K doesn’t want to risk huge fines and losing its beer license by making a risky sale, but Jimmy selling weed on the corner doesn’t care.

        3. avatar Blain Cooper says:

          Why would you be offended by someone not handing over money to the government?

        4. avatar Gov. William J. Le Petomane says:

          I’m not offended that other people might not have to pay taxes, I’m offended that I do, and taxes on taxes to boot. Why give stoners a tax break when I can pick up the tab?

        5. avatar Another Robert says:

          @Jason: You know, you may be right. But I keep thinking about that rash of kids showing up at school with marijuana candy in Colorado.

        6. avatar Blain Cooper says:

          The correct solution is to fight for removal of your taxation, not to force others to pay up. Hate the game, not the player.

        7. Okay, I’ll agree to legalizing drugs as long as welfare is repealed.

        8. avatar int19h says:

          Legalization doesn’t mean no regulation. If you look for the rules regarding growing and selling weed in WA, for example, it’s a lot of red tape (and a lot of taxes). I don’t see a problem with restricting it to children, including indirectly by e.g. banning such establishments in vicinity of schools etc.

    3. avatar Richard in KY says:

      Yeah, not going to give you that one…. “could have moved it”…. Sure. That sounds right. We all know kingpins work as pizza delivery boys to throw off the fuzz.

      This “drug ledger” is probably just as accurate as everything else the lying operator bastards said.
      A few friends names on a piece of paper becomes a “drug ledger”, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the “scales” were in the bathroom and of the 1-300 pound variety.

      1. avatar Komrad says:

        with 9 oz, that’s distribution levels
        it’d all go stale before you could smoke that much

        but scales are cheap, it’s $10-20 for a centigram scale useful for selling dope
        but I, being a college student, know plenty of non-dealers who own such scales for double checking their dealer

    4. avatar Bob says:

      So what? Why even ask this? Is any of this relevant to him being killed?

    5. avatar Grindstone says:

      And they couldn’t arrest him while he was delivering a goddamn pizza? Nope, gotta shoot him in the face. He had pot so it’s totally justified! So I have no reason to be concerned about police killing people in their homes or on the streets!

  13. avatar El Mac says:

    Wow. 10 out of 330,000,000. Stunning.

    1. avatar J. Zoss says:

      We just entered the 3rd month of the year so for 2 months it is basically an average of 5 people per month for a slightly different perspective. That gives us a projected estimate of 60 over the year. I am not fine with the state killing citizens in the name of this insane war on some people that use drugs. I’ll let you get back to following orders.

      1. avatar El Mac says:

        @J. Zoss, Certainly it is sad when someone is wrongly shot. It ain’t a perfect world. So, I’ll let you get back to Romper Room.

        As for the dope peddler:

        1. avatar El Mac says:


        2. avatar Gov. William J. Le Petomane says:

          Imagine what would happen to the crime rate if we started punishing all misdemeanor offense with the death penalty. I hear crime is almost unheard of in Saudi Arabia.

        3. avatar Blain Cooper says:

          “Imagine what would happen to the crime rate if we started punishing all misdemeanor offense with the death penalty”

          The government crime rate would skyrocket.

    2. avatar Rambeast says:

      So, 330,000,000 were subjected to a door kicked in during the wee hours for a victimless “crime” so far this year? Stunning. Go back to your state sanctified extortion, and let the adults handle the discussion.

      1. avatar El Mac says:

        @Rambeast, 10 druggies down out of 330,000,000 citizens. Wow. Pretty good stats. More Romper Room and rose colored glasses for you too.

        1. avatar Jus Bill says:

          10 druggies down out of 330,000,000 citizens

          Looks like you just learned how to cut and paste the statistic you found. You need to drop a resume with Bloomberg.

          That “druggie” was somebody’s kid.
          That “druggie” was doing something that’s becoming a legal source of taxes in several states.
          That “druggie” had a job.

          How about you? When you hear someone pounding on your door at 3 a.m. how fast will you answer it? Will you live through the experience?

        2. avatar Richard in KY says:

          El Mac…. It’s people like you who make me ashamed to be a “gun person”.
          The whole fire and brimstone, punish every crime with death type.

          Shall we post a swat member at every intersection to make sure no one gets away with any rolling stops?
          Because lets be clear here, rolling stops probably cause more harm in a week than pot causes all year (barring police interaction with potheads/dealers).

          Honestly I think people like you are a FAR bigger threat to our liberties and freedoms in this nation than ANY anti gun group or politician.

        3. avatar Rambeast says:

          Richard, El Mac is a government employee (read: cop), and not one of the honorable type such as Accur81. Logic, liberty, and love for his fellow man will fall on deaf ears where he is concerned. He is one of the absolutist law enforcers. We are little people in his eyes.

        4. avatar El Mac says:

          @Rambeast, Hardly. But cry over a drug dealer? No.

    3. avatar KCK says:

      10 for 10 for those people

      1. avatar El Mac says:

        @KCK, 10 for 10 said the propogandist website. Perhaps. Good shooting in any event.

    4. avatar ThomasR says:

      So El Mac. You come across as a complete and utter psychopath.

      “Only ten”. Talk about a “human being” without an ounce of compassion or empathy. You fit the definition of at least a sociopath.

      You are not making any case that counters the general thought that many have that cops are given the “authority” to be cold blooded murderers.

      I think most cops are good people just trying to do a hard job. Statistically, at least some cops will be sociopaths. I think you would be one of those statistics.

      1. avatar El Mac says:

        @ThomasR, empathy for drug dealers? None. Nada. Zip. Zed.

        1. avatar Blain Cooper says:

          That’s a good little government shill.

        2. avatar Chip Bennett says:

          You’re free to deny him your empathy. The State, on the other hand, is not free to deny him his constitutionally protected rights.

        3. avatar ThomasR says:

          So when the drug called alcohol was illegal, the drug runners called moon shiners were equally to be shot down like dogs, (which cops do regularly) and it’s all good.

          You El Mac, are the mindless government drone called a “public employee”; that If a law is passed outlawing sporting rifles, you will be the first one smashing the door down of what the day before was a law abiding citizen, which today is now considered an outlaw and you will call it good.

          You, El Mac, is what our Founding Fathers warned would happen when we the people gave the responsibility of our own protection into the hands of the “professionals”. They would end up as simple enforcers, looking with contempt upon the people they are paid to protect. Which contempt you show in abundance. And when an unconstitutional law is passed, you will enforce the law, damn the constitution.

          I don’t blame you El Mac for what you are. I blame my fellow citizens for putting that kind of power in the hands of a killing machine simply “following orders”.

        4. avatar ThomasR says:

          Oh, so El Mac, I shouldn’t have called you mindless. I want to thank you. You show me the wisdom of our Founding Fathers and how they understood history and the workings of the human spirit. They knew how power corrupts and how people with power look with contempt upon those that don’t, as the contempt that you show towards the people is a good example of that corruption.

          That’s why I have such respect for the sherriffs and their deputies. They almost all have come out and said they would not enforce unconstitutional gun laws. But that’s because they are directly answerable to the people. Unlike city cops and the feds; which I would figure your one of.

        5. avatar El Mac says:

          @ThomasR, you are totally impressed with yourself.

    5. avatar Grindstone says:

      You are a terrible human being.

    6. avatar S.CROCK says:

      “YAWN……” oh just another person needlessly murdered, no biggie.

      Thats how that is read.

      1. avatar El Mac says:

        @S.CROCK, …yawn, again, still. Just another drug pushing asshole that made a bad decision of his own free will.

  14. avatar Frank says:

    So I guess since it is only 10 that have died it is fine? Maybe you would care if you were one of the 10.

  15. avatar JustyourRandomEuropean says:

    Well sounds to me like your typical…

    We got all this cool gear we somehow got from god knows where.
    You know how to shoot.
    Gear up, soldier – ehm – deputy. We’ll bust some druggies.

    Shootings like those, are in my opinion in most cases due to scared police officers, who have been taught how to handle a weapon, yet obviously nobody taught them how to handle critical situation.

    Yes, it is a dangerous line of work. But if you can’t handle the pressure you should have taken another job.
    Yes, the security of the officer is important, but that doesn’t mean, that we can shoot everything that moves while entering a building.

    No matter the situation: IF there was no weapon of any kind near or on the suspect, then no matter what he does, there should be no situation, in which he will be shot by an officer.

    For heavens sake: An automatic rifle, black plate carriers and a helmet don’t make a specialist: Years of training do and nothing else….

    1. avatar Blain Cooper says:

      “Yes, it is a dangerous line of work”

      It isn’t. It’s not even in the top 20 most dangerous jobs in the country.

      1. avatar William B. says:

        New suggestion for urban SWAT trainees: Spend a winter on an Alaskan crab boat. Now, THAT’S dangerous.

      2. avatar JustyourRandomEuropean says:

        Only because there are more stupid ways to die than stuffing your d*** in a meat grinder and bleeding out doesn’t make it a smart idea.

        Yes, it is not the most dangerous job. It still has a higher chance of dying than let’s say being a graphic designer working from home on your macbook, when your biggest threat is falling down the stairs, when going to get your whatever from starbucks…

        1. avatar Blain Cooper says:

          Being a civilian in the general vicinity of a cop is more dangerous than being a cop.

    2. avatar John in Ohio says:

      It’s not just scared officers. These officer know that there is little likelihood of real accountability. They’ve been fed a hero complex backed by hero worshiping sycophants. The judicial system feeds into this complex. The legislature feeds into this complex. One of the balances against such government abuses was supposed to be an armed people and juries that wouldn’t indict or convict persons defending themselves against government abuse. Although I think that the tide is turning in favor of individual self defense against the State, we still have a long way to go.

  16. avatar Shire-man says:

    The worst part about this nonsense and the marichino cherry guy who blew his brains out over some pot plants is the end of prohibition is on the horizon.

    I suppose the police state sees this too and has to ramp up their asset forfeiture and pretend SWAT games while they still can.

    1. avatar BDub says:

      My only fear is that when prohibition ends, these SWAT teams won’t. They will be reapplied to some other task like collecting child-support or apprehending cable-theives and people who piggy-back on the wrong guys wifi-hotspot. If an when prohibition comes, some sort of scaling back on the police militarization needs to take place with it.

      1. avatar Dale Smith says:

        Yep. Like the ATF. greeaaaaat.

      2. avatar Grindstone says:

        True words.

      3. avatar int19h says:

        Full legalization of weed is on the horizon for sure, but I doubt about the other drugs. So they will still find ways to cash in thru forfeiture, there just will be less of that.

        But yeah, I’m sure they’ll also find some creative ways of “repurposing” those teams for something equally important, like, say, child support payments, or late tax returns. It is extremely rare for a state to voluntarily relinquish the oppressive power it has acquired.

  17. avatar iCONOCLAST says:

    But, but, but, they’re heroes?!?! A little “testilying” and “nothing to see here,move along”

  18. avatar Mack Bolan says:

    Monster Pizza is now hiring! We need a delivery driver willing to work night and weekends. Your own car is required. Citizenship, Drivers License, Insurance and Criminal Record are optional. Must be willing to work nights, and be able to count money. Experience as a drug dealer a plus. Please apply in person.

  19. avatar ghost says:

    Your door kicked in at @ 6:30 am. What could go wrong? How do you know, right off, who is kicking it in? SWAT is overused. Originally it was for “hard cases”. Now they kick in doors just to serve a warrant. A few members have been killed by home owners, and were justified in doing so.

  20. At the end of the day,every law is eventually backed with the force of a gun.

    A fact that those wanting to eliminate guns conveniently ignore (or never realized in the first place).

    1. avatar Stinkeye says:

      I think that’s a logical conclusion that the vast majority of people never reach. It’s absolutely true, but most people, of any political stripe, don’t think it through to the end.

  21. avatar 2hotel9 says:

    Why could they not arrest him as he left the home? Oh, yea, have to kill as many people as possible to justify having a SWAT team.

  22. avatar Delmarva Chip says:

    Congratulations, America. Yet another “dangerous criminal” executed by cops.

  23. avatar Mediocrates says:


    Carry on. Nothing to see here.

  24. avatar BDub says:

    ‘But sheriff’s spokesman Gary Davidson added that Raible fired his weapon after perceiving Cruice’s actions as a threat.”

    So shock, surprise and possibly panic, are now considered threatening actions by police. Great! /sarc

  25. avatar Sammy says:

    It’s not about the crime, it’s about the money. And with GOVERNMENTS openly going into the drug business it will only get more draconian. The government don’t like getting ripped for taxes and they don’t like competition.

  26. avatar dph says:

    Why not just order a pizza and arrest the delivery guy? Seems simple.

    1. avatar JasonM says:

      There’s a good chance he was using the delivery job as a cover to sell.
      All they’d have to do is arrest a known buyer on possession charges, and tell him they’ll drop the charges if he orders a pizza with special “herbs”. Set up some cameras and microphones in the informant’s house, record the whole transaction, then step out, guns holstered, and arrest the guy.
      Cheap, safe, easy, and they’d get a slam dunk conviction. Not that I’m condoning arresting someone for a non-crime like possessing or dealing drugs, but if they are going to do it, I’d prefer they not kill the guy and rape the tax payers to do it.

      1. avatar int19h says:

        Here’s why:

        “Why serve an arrest warrant to some crack dealer with a .38? With full armor, the right shit, and training, you can kick ass and have fun. —US MILITARY OFFICER WHO CONDUCTED TRAINING SEMINARS FOR CIVILIAN SWAT TEAMS IN THE 1990S”

        “The officers with SWAT and dynamic-entry experience interviewed for this book say raids are orders of magnitude more intoxicating than anything else in police work. Ironically, many cops describe them with language usually used to describe the drugs the raids are conducted to confiscate. “Oh, it’s a huge rush,” Franklin says. “Those times when you do have to kick down a door, it’s just a big shot of adrenaline.” Downing agrees. “It’s a rush. And you have to be careful, because the raids themselves can be habit-forming.” Jamie Haase, a former special agent with Immigration and Customs Enforcement who went on multiple narcotics, money laundering, and human trafficking raids, says the thrill of the raid may factor into why narcotics cops just don’t consider less volatile means of serving search warrants. “The thing is, it’s so much safer to wait the suspect out,” he says. “Waiting people out is just so much better. You’ve done your investigation, so you know their routine. So you wait until the guy leaves, and you do a routine traffic stop and you arrest him. That’s the safest way to do it. But you have to understand that a lot of these cops are meatheads. They think this stuff is cool. And they get hooked on that jolt of energy they get during a raid.””

        “Narcotics investigators had made a controlled drug buy a few hours earlier and were laying plans to raid the suspect’s home. “The drug buy was in town, not at the home,” Taylor says. “But they’d always raid the house anyway. They could never just arrest the guy on the street. They always had to kick down doors.””

        “Because of the new forfeiture law, police agencies now had a strong incentive to “find” a connection between valuable property and drug activity, even if there was none. They now had an incentive to conduct drug busts inside homes when the suspects could just as easily—and more safely—have been apprehended outside the house. They now had a strong financial incentive to make drug policing a higher priority and to devote more personnel to drug investigations than to investigating other crimes. Closing a rape or murder case didn’t come with a potential kickback to the police department. Knocking off a mid- or low-level drug dealer did. Most perversely of all, the promise of a financial reward actually provided drug cops with an incentive to wait until drugs had already been sold to move in with searches and arrests. A suspect flush with pot or cocaine didn’t offer much forfeiture potential. If they waited to bust him until he’d sold most or all of his supply, the police department got to keep the cash. Subsequent media and academic investigations would bear this out, finding examples of police waiting to bust stash houses until most of their supply had been sold, or of being far more likely to pull over suspected drug-running vehicles in the lanes leading out from large metropolitan areas (when they were likely to be full of cash) than the lanes leading in (when they were more likely to be filled with drugs).”

        “The thing is, when law enforcement officials face suspects who present a genuine threat to officer safety, they do tend to be more creative. When the FBI finally located Whitey Bulger in 2010 after searching for him for sixteen years, the reputed mobster was suspected in nearly twenty murders and was thought to be armed with a huge arsenal of weapons. Of all the people who might meet the criteria for arrest by a SWAT team, you’d think Bulger would top the list. He was also aging, in poor physical health, and looking at spending the rest of his life in prison. If ever there was a candidate to go out in a blaze of cop-killing glory, it was Whitey Bulger. And yet instead of sending a tactical team in to tear down Bulger’s door, the FBI did some investigating and learned that Bulger rented a public storage locker. They called him up, pretending to be from the company that owned the facility, and told Bulger someone might have broken into his locker. When he went to the facility to investigate, he was arrested without incident. Why can’t investigators handle common drug offenders the same way? A big reason is a lack of resources. If your department is serving several drug warrants a day, you just aren’t going to have the personnel to come up with that sort of plan for each one. A second reason is that drug offenders simply aren’t all that likely to shoot at cops, and it’s easier to use violent tactics against people who aren’t going to fire back. It’s by no means a universal rule, but often when police do face a genuinely violent suspect like an escaped fugitive with a violent history, a suspect in a series of violent crimes, or a barricade or hostage situation, they don’t immediately storm the place. They set up a perimeter or try to figure out other ways to make the arrest safely. This again isn’t possible with drug warrants—there are just too many of them. But because drug dealers aren’t all that dangerous, it works out to raid them instead.”

        All of these are from Radley Balko’s excellent work on the subject, “Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America’s Police Forces”

        (By the way, I’ve made this offer before, and it still stands: anyone who is interested in reading this book – and if you are uneasy about stories like this one, then you should definitely read it! – you can have it for free. Just give me your email address, and whether you prefer the Kindle version or the paperback, and I’ll buy it for you as a gift.)

        1. avatar John in Ohio says:

          That’s a very generous offer. I sent you an email. Thanks, int19h!

  27. avatar William B. says:

    Here’s where we’re headed with this “perceived a threat” garbage, that doesn’t require the SWATter’s perception to be reasonable under the circumstances. Instructions from officer: “Exit the vehicle. Unzip your fly. Then unbutton the 3rd button on your shirt. Hop clockwise on your right leg for a full circle, and then stop.” BANG. What the bleep happened, Deputy? “He hopped around for 390 degrees, not 360, so I perceived a threat. And he almost put his left leg down at one point, too. But, hey, I’m REALLY shaken up about it. S’OK?”

  28. avatar Blain Cooper says:

    “The deputy, he’s all right, actually he is very shaken”

    Note how the concern is for the murderer, not the victim.

  29. avatar neiowa says:

    Is Hightimes linking to TTAG? Seems to be a lot of potheads of late. Perhaps some of you might feel at home in Daily Kos or Mother Jones.

    1. avatar Blain Cooper says:

      Well obviously potheads have more concerns for civil rights than despicable drug warriors.

    2. avatar El Mac says:

      @neiowa, well said.

    3. avatar Omer Baker says:

      Drug are bad. The war on drugs is way worse.

      1. avatar William B. says:

        Dead on accurate, Mr. Baker.

    4. avatar William B. says:

      I do not “like” potheads. I do not “respect” potheads. But I don’t think they deserve to be shot and killed, when unarmed and not resisting. And you do? What if a SWAT team THOUGHT you were selling pot, even though you weren’t? Betcha wouldn’t like it so much then.

      You may not realize it, but a lot of the “people of the gun” is libertarian, Mr. Iowa. If you’re a “cops can do no wrong” kinda guy, perhaps you’d be happier spending all your time on a police forum.

      1. avatar Jus Bill says:

        I would drop “resisting” from that scenario.

        In the last year I’ve read about an infant in a crib nearly dying from a flash-bang tossed due to the need to negate “resistance,” a homeowner killed in his front door for “resisting” by putting his hands on the top of his front door frame, and another SWAT homicide victim “resisting” by lying in his bed asleep.

        And they all were “resisting” a group of lawful B&E/home invasion artists that were better armed and equipped than a squad of Marines in Mosul. Nice odds, yes?

        “Selective amnesia” might help you all sleep well tonight. But instead of a total for this year, let’s try a rolling six-month average. THAT would be a much more accurate measure.

        1. avatar William B. says:

          Sorry, Jus Bill. I meant REAL, ACTUAL resistance of the violent kind, not “perceived” resistance on the part of the “tactical operator”. You’re 100% right, of course. How many dash-cam videos have we all seen where a cop or two or three are whupping up on a guy who is just laying there doing nothing, while they scream, “STOP RESISTING!” And the guy ain’t moving.

        2. avatar 2hotel9 says:

          2-3 people got their hands on me I fight back, I don’t give a f**k who they think they are.

        3. avatar Former Water Walker says:

          +1 jus bill…selective amnesia. I’m not anti-cop-just anti bad cop. Who are everywhere. I’m happy I quit dealing pot in the 70’s(yeah I’m old)…

      2. avatar Icyou says:

        Agreed, I don’t smoke or weed and I don’t want too, but I don’t think it should be illegal. You know what should be illegal? Armed thugs kicking in doors to kill someone over a plant. Seriously it’s a plant. The problem is a lot of cops want to be in the military and be operators but didn’t have the balls to go through boot, and follow on training to be a real operator, so they play soldier against whatever they can. This includes unarmed dudes.

        You’re seriously telling me there wasn’t an alternative that was safer for both the cops and citizens than kicking down their door? Like if you need that much force you are perceiving a serious threat. If you have a threat that deadly, would you not look at an alternative method to take them down than kicking in the door?

        In Afghanistan if we thought a threat was armed up or had IED materials in his home, we didn’t go full Rambo and kick in his door, and risk taking a burst of AK fire or getting blown up if we didn’t have to. It was a much easier and safer solution to just wait him out. Put a surveillance team on him and wait for him to go to the market and grab him there. One time the guy knew we were waiting him out and he just walked out with his hands up.

        The thing is though these cops knew there was no danger, I highly doubt they would kick in the door if they thought the people they were busting justified the use of the amount of force pictured. Nope they wanted to play Operator and some died for it.

        1. avatar John in Ohio says:

          The thing is though these cops knew there was no danger, I highly doubt they would kick in the door if they thought the people they were busting justified the use of the amount of force pictured.

          I’ve noticed that when they think the threat is real, they lock down the neighborhood and surround the house. When the go right to the door kick for a warrant that they could execute anytime, I don’t believe that they expect any real resistance.

      3. avatar E says:

        Why do you dislike someone just because they consume something? Do you hold the same animosity towards drunks, tobacco smokers, snuff chewers, oxycontin poppers, etc.?

    5. avatar actionphysicalman says:

      Yeah, a person must be high to think murder (or manslaughter) is a crime even if you are a cop.

    6. avatar int19h says:

      Are you still worried about “cocainized negros raping white women and not going down when shot with a .38”, buddy?

      (For those curious, that’s how American newspapers have painted the issue 80 years ago, and is where all this War on Drugs stuff ultimately stems from.)

  30. avatar Frank says:

    Neiowa it would break my heart if you had a swat team come by your house and violate your rights. After all, it is not big deal right?

  31. avatar Accur81 says:

    Another overuse of SWAT with deadly consequences.

  32. avatar Buster says:

    He was aiming for the dog.

  33. avatar slow says:

    It always pays to be a member of the best protected criminal cartel.

  34. avatar Vitsaus says:

    Since when is a criminal lifestyle 100% safe? Being a drug dealer comes with risk, if he had been killed by another dealer or a “customer” we wouldn’t even be hearing about this. He didn’t want to be a 9-5 drone like the rest of us, fine, but I’m not going to feel bad for him. What are the odds a swat team would have shot him in the face if his vocation of choice had been say… telemarketer?

    1. avatar Blain Cooper says:

      Note how the drug warrior scumbag goes into hypothetical statistical analysis when factual reality is that he was unarmed and murdered by the cops.

      Also note how the allegation of drug dealing has never been proven in a court of law, ergo, it is hearsay passed on by police to justify their crime.

      1. avatar Vitsaus says:

        Note how the drug addict degenerate immediately goes for the personal attack rather than admitting that a criminal lifestyle is in fact no guarantee of safety from a violent death, regardless of who put the bullet in said criminal.

        1. avatar Blain Cooper says:

          Implying cops haven’t murdered people with absolutely no criminal background whatsoever. Oh wait, they do. All the time. So much for a clean lifestyle being a guarantee of safety.

          Despite what you believe, the drug war doesn’t proscribe the death penalty for dealing marijuana.

          It’s funny how you accuse others of personal attacks when your entire argument involves citing drug dealing as a “bad thing”. Because it’s a “criminal lifestyle”, as dictated by the government. Therefore it must be bad. Spoken like a good little slave.

    2. avatar Grindstone says:

      Glad you found a way to justify this murder. So when the ATF comes for your guns, you’ll just hand them over or risk getting shot in the face?

      1. avatar int19h says:

        It’s not even like they give you a choice first. The first you know that you’re being SWAT’ed, there’s a flashbang thrown through the gaping hole where your front door has been blown off (or if you’re really unlucky, through a hole in the wall of your house if they use a ram).

    3. avatar Jake Tallman says:

      Given your comments about his likelihood of being killed by a customer or a rival drug dealer, I’m gonna assume your knowledge of drugs comes from idiotic, blatantly lying, fear mongering bullshit like Reefer Madness. Potheads are notorious for the exact OPPOSITE of being violent, and the violence in the drug trade is basically never about weed. It’s about much harder drugs, like heroine or meth. Also, saying he’s a degenerate criminal who deserves to die? Jesus, you’re a terrible person, and an idiot. Tell me, why is selling pot immoral? Pot is not a particularly dangerous drug, and either way, this guy’s customers are purchasing a product for their own use. What is immoral about that?

      Oh, and if you want to tell me that pot is bad and therefore this guy deserved to be murdered for selling it, well, I’d like to point out that cigarettes and freely available at pretty much every gas station in this country. In fact, I bought some for myself today, and nicotine is FAR worse than THC.

  35. avatar DickDanger says:

    Moral of the story: don’t deal drugs.

    1. avatar Blain Cooper says:

      The real moral is: SWAT cops are criminal scum.

    2. avatar Another Robert says:

      Or be mistaken for someone who does…

      1. avatar William B. says:

        …or go by the pseudonym DickDanger, which just might make a SWATter think you’re a dangerous…, well, you know. And that would probably be enough to get you shot in the face by some “operators”.

      2. avatar S.CROCK says:

        ….or live near someone who does.
        ….or live near someone who is suspected of it.

        1. avatar int19h says:

          Or live at an address that, if misspelled by a letter or two, could be a drug dealer’s address.

    3. avatar Chip Bennett says:

      Moral of the story: don’t deal drugs.

      Yeah, screw due process and equal protection under the law. Summary execution without arrest or trial is A-OK for small-fry pot dealers.

  36. avatar mlloyd says:

    Typical. They say the right things, until a video surfaces which shows the statement was totally wrong, then they backtrack and say they made a mistake or mis-spoke That’s standard cop operating procedure.
    It’s total bull-shit to shoot an unarmed person. It was a mistake. A cop had is finger on a trigger and squeezed one off accidentally. They all know the standard line of crap to say. “I felt threatened, I thought he had a gun, He was resisting”

    1. avatar Blain Cooper says:

      All cops are trained liars and deceivers.

      1. avatar El Mac says:

        @Blain Cooper, broad brush much? You must be one of those cracker racists.

        1. avatar Blain Cooper says:

          Now look who’s talking about race 🙂

        2. avatar El Mac says:

          @Blain Cooper, just a heaping helping do your own dope, er uh, medicine bro.

        3. avatar Blain Cooper says:

          Feel free to quote me talking about race on TTAG, ever.

          Pro-tip: you can’t, bro.

  37. avatar Nelson says:


    1. avatar Dale Smith says:

      Sad situation now days, but this is good to know.

  38. avatar Dale Smith says:

    I specifically designed my house to protect my family against armed and roided out thugs breaking in and shooting somebody. And to deter criminals.

    But in all seriousness, with it taking so little now days to get the SWAT team at your house, wrong addresses, or being SWATted. AND I live near a border town with there being a good number of armed break-ins, it was a design consideration. Reinforced doors entering the house. Long straight hallway to the bedrooms. Tall, but very narrow width windows, so that most people can’t fit through them. A very poor decision to enter the house and attempt to get to my family.

    1. avatar Geoff PR says:

      ” Tall, but very narrow width windows, so that most people can’t fit through them.”

      Also sounds like nearly impossible to escape from if there was a fire.

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        old combat infintry axiom:
        “if your defensive position is so good the enemy cannot get in, you cannot get out.”

        1. avatar DMB says:

          Sounds like the Maginot Line in France. The Germans couldnt get in and the French couldnt get out. To remedy this the Nazis poured gas into the vent pipes and the french soldiers died either from the fire or lack of oxygen.

      2. avatar El Mac says:

        FLAME DELETED – Persistent flamers will be permanently banned.

  39. avatar Jus Bill says:

    I think that BAC and drug tests should be mandatory for the entire SWAT Team after EVERY SWAT-involved shooting. And the results made public record, just like for a traffic stop. Roided up and running on a nap after a night of boozing and partying? Nowhere to hide now – even the union couldn’t explain results like that.

    That could be Holder’s parting gift to America. Especially in light of the NIJ’s Freguson PD Report. LITERALLY for the children…

    1. avatar James69 says:

      How about every month? (drug testing)

  40. avatar jerry says:

    The deputy smoked a drug dealer? I’d say congratulations are in order.

    1. avatar E says:

      Would you be happy if they killed other drug dealers like the operators of alcohol stores, tobacco shops or pharmacies?

    2. avatar Blain Cooper says:

      Extrajudicial murder sure is awesome!

      1. avatar Jordan says:

        Blain, I’m glad to see other people that are disgusted when a man who is not even suspected of harming another person is killed in his own home by agents of the government that we pay for.

      2. avatar jerry says:

        Stop crying, he was a drug-dealing POS.

        1. avatar Blain Cooper says:

          Says the actual POS. Oh, the irony.

        2. avatar Chip Bennett says:

          He was also a drug-dealing POS who had constitutionally protected rights of due process, equal protection under the law, a trial by a jury of his peers, and not being subjected to cruel and unusual punishment.

        3. avatar int19h says:

          Are you a cop?

      3. avatar jerry says:

        Why blain, you mad bro? Was it your boyfriend the deputy killed? My condolences, just tell me where to send flowers.

        1. avatar Blain Cooper says:

          But you said you didn’t care. 🙂

          Make up your mind, dumbass.

      4. avatar jerry says:

        I changed my mind when I realized he must have been special to you!

        1. avatar Blain Cooper says:

          Almost got it. Civil rights and due process are very special to me. 🙂

          You can send flowers to the graves of James Madison and Thomas Jefferson, because d-bags like you helped kill the Constitution.

        2. avatar William B. says:

          I’m clapping for that one, Blain. Good stuff there.

    3. avatar Grindstone says:

      Would you say the same if it was a gun dealer?

      1. avatar jerry says:

        You crying about it as well Grindstone? I think you’re just going to have to get over it. He was a shithead, the world is a better place.

        1. avatar DMB says:

          Cops regularly fail to read the address on the warrant and invade the wrong house. The first to get shot is the family pet and then one of the family members. Do you want gun happy shitheads like these guys breaking into your home?

        2. avatar DMB says:

          Yeah its too bad the cops didnt kick in clintons door while he was smoking dope or Light up Berrys car when he and his buddies were hittin the weed hard.

        3. avatar Grindstone says:

          So then you support circumventing the Constitution and Due Process? You support armed agents of the state executing people in their own homes? You’re ready to throw the 2A under the bus as well? You are the worst kind of hypocrite.

        4. avatar S.CROCK says:

          “He was a shithead, the world is a better place.”

          A person is murdered, the murderer is getting a paid vacation, and the constitution has once again been used as single ply toilet paper. HOW IS THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE NOW?

      2. avatar John in Ohio says:

        Or those evil unpasteurized milk dealers.

        Some of them wear gang colors… straw hats and all.

        1. avatar Anonymous says:

          That’s correct. Because my buying, seeking, or consuming raw milk is the governments business.

    4. avatar Chip Bennett says:

      So I’ll just put you down as being in favor of a police state, as well, then? We don’t need no stinkin’ constitutionally protected rights. The police get to decide on the spot whether someone dies for dealing a bit of marijuana.

      1. avatar jerry says:

        Damn, I may lose a whole lot of sleep tonight knowing some guy on the internet named chip thinks I’m an ass.

        1. avatar Chip Bennett says:

          Your ad hominem is boring.

      2. avatar Jerry says:

        Your sympathy for a dead criminal is ridiculous. The police executed a search warrant, and a drug dealer was killed. Unarmed does not mean the shooting was unjustified girls. You can wait for the investigation to be completed or you and blain and a couple other members of the congregation can go light a candle for the schmuck.

        1. avatar DMB says:

          YEAH YEAH ………Execute a search warrant and while your there execute a citizen.

        2. avatar Grindstone says:

          Jerry, your ancestors were Tories, weren’t they?

        3. avatar Chip Bennett says:

          Your sympathy for a dead criminal is ridiculous.

          Straw man. I never claimed sympathy for him. I merely point out that his constitutionally protected rights were egregiously violated.

          The police executed a search warrant, and a drug dealer was killed.

          The search warrant authorized the killing of said (alleged) drug dealer? Where are we, the Soviet Union?

          The lawful and appropriate penalty for dealing drugs is death? And that penalty can be carried out without a trial? Again, where are we, the Soviet Union?

        4. avatar int19h says:

          Ironically, they didn’t actually raid drug dealers with SWAT in the USSR.

          (Heck, they didn’t even have SWAT at all! The Soviet/Russian equivalent is OMON (Special Purpose Police Squad), and the first such team was formed in 1988.)

  41. avatar James69 says:

    Those damm glocks!!

  42. avatar James69 says:

    1st off nobody had a “drop gun” what kind of cops are these?
    2nd What will all the stoners do without pizza for a whole day?
    3rd Why are the cops so worried about some douche with 9 oz’s of pot?
    4th Why don’t they hit the guys with 9/90/900/9000 lbs?
    5th How will the county recover from losing all the fines AND future fines from the dead drug dealer?
    6th When is the SWAT team getting a Bradley Fighting Vehicle?

    1. avatar the ruester says:

      I know the answer to 3 and 4; when a small fry is busted, they can “turn him out,” take all of his worldly possessions, which for small time dealers is usually highly liquid assets like sports cars, etc. The big fish can afford to either bribe or lawyer up, the latter of which costs more money than it is worth, and the former of which is actually the best possible scenario as far as the truly crooked ones are concerned.

  43. avatar PavePusher says:

    Reason #1 to end Prohibition II.

  44. avatar Anonymous says:

    “The deputy, he’s all right, actually he is very shaken,” Johnson offered.

    Who is the victim here again?

    1. avatar John in Ohio says:

      Obviously the deputy. C’mon man, get with the program! What are you, a terrorist?

    2. avatar Blain Cooper says:

      The poor cop was the victim. Don’t you understand his terrible burden and the hard choices he has to make to protect the children from a plant?

  45. avatar JWM says:

    Swat should only be used when shots have been fired or hostages taken. No knock raids should never be used.

    And seriously? A raid by swat on a pot dealer? Just leave a trail of doritos from the front door to the cop car and doorbell ditch. He’ll do the rest.

  46. avatar DBM says:

    OH BUT IT WAS A TRAGIC ACCIDENT! They beg joint he was smoking looked just like an anti tank rocket launcher and I had milliseconds to save everyones lives!

  47. avatar Son Of Dad says:

    All the comments I’ve seen along the lines of, “Well, that’s why you don’t sell weed,” as if that transgression was somehow justification for murder…Look, think about it like this: instead of the local cops serving a warrant for minor drug distribution, it’s the ATF serving a warrant because they suspect a guy’s SKS is not 922r compliant, or that he created an unregistered SBR by shouldering an SB-equipped AR pistol, and — whoopsie-ding dongs — they shoot the dude in the face.

    1. avatar Dale Smith says:

      Great example and comparison!! Folks on here would literally be up in arms and demanding blood.

    2. avatar Jordan says:


      Fact: Whatever argument you use for the justification for government force against someone who hasn’t violated someone else’s natural rights can and will be used against you. (in a court of law 😉 )

    3. avatar Grindstone says:

      Fvcking amen!

      These two-faced “POTG” who support state murder yet proclaim the 2A is to prevent tyranny are not only hypocrites, but also cowards.

  48. avatar jeffe says:

    Thank God we are protected from the little pot guys. Now if they can protect us from the Treasonous Bastards in the White House and the miserable scum that think he is the messiah, otherwise they can kiss my ass.

  49. avatar El Mac says:

    @Richard in KY, again, YAWN.

    1. avatar Richard in KY says:

      Go ahead El Mac.
      Go right on ahead.

      Get yourself banned for being crude.

      Side note. I love how you show me how disinterested you are by taking the time to post a comment that says “YAWN”.

      It’s a good thing we have low requirements on police force entry… There are only so many spots to be filled flipping burgers or mowing lawns.

      I suggest that anyone here deal with people like you as I do. Any time I have a truly rude encounter with a cop I talk to his superiors. You’d be surprised how many want to be tough guys have had to write out an apology letter.

      1. avatar El Mac says:

        Richard in KY, rude? Hardly sir. I’ve already expressed the sadness over the incident. But the saddest thing to me is that this young man chose to spend himself in such a useless enterprise – an evidently illegal one at that. But he was a grown man, he made his bed. Rightly or wrongly, now he lies in it.

        1. avatar Richard in KY says:

          Hey Mac.

          I get fired up at stuff like this.

          Honestly… I bet we would probably get along in person. Internet and text based communication is severely lacking. Disagreements tend to spring up quicker.

          Also, I probably have a bias. I’ve never been robbed, mugged, or had any real crimes committed against me by any criminal.

          However I have been harassed by police multiple times for nothing. Things they had no right to bother me over. I watch them break the law with impunity and think… I have had more negative in my life from police than from the criminal element of society. I realize this is not the case for all people, and I realize society wouldn’t be possible without police.

          I’m just tired of the blue gang that can form in some areas because of the groupthink of police.

  50. avatar William B. says:

    I am ashamed that some of those commenting on this thread are on our side of the gun issue. First, arguing whether an alleged pot dealer should have been shot because it was “bad enough” are missing the point. The point is due process, and the focus should be on “accused,” not “pot dealer”. If he is an accused pedophile, but isn’t any REAL threat to arresting officers, isn’t resisting, etc., he is still entitled to not be shot in the face. We can argue whether he deserves to be shot in the face AFTER a conviction (which we did yesterday in the death penalty thread), but I’m pretty sure under our constitutional system., the cops aren’t supposed to be able to shoot non-threats who aren’t resisting, without a trial first. See, what if he didn’t do it? It’s been known to happen.

    Second, I just love the absurd assumptions that some are making along the lines of, “I don’t deal pot, so that could never happen to me.” Just one county over from me, the police murdered a man in his living room chair because THEY HAD THE WRONG HOUSE. And what if you had an ex who was P.O.’d at you and just made some poop up to get back at you, either you molested her daughter, or you were a drug dealer, when you didn’t/weren’t, and you were then shot in a SWAT raid? Isn’t it wonderful how no one believes that “criminals” (which implies you’ve already convicted them without due process or a trial, in your own mind) deserve any rights…until you or yours are the ones being railroaded by the power of the authoritarian state, and then all of a sudden, it’d be, “Waaaaah! My rights!” You know, there are OTHER rights in the Bill of Rights besides the 2A, and they all apply to everyone. It sounds to me like a few of you are going far beyond exercising your 2A rights; you’re not just trying to be prepared if the gov’t goes tyrannical, or defend yourself or your family while hoping desperately it never comes to that; you’re just hoping and praying you get the chance to kill someone, because you’d just love it. You’re looking for an excuse. You think it would be fun. The stench of self-righteous hypocrisy coming from the comments of the loud minority here is palpable.

    1. avatar BSB says:

      Well said +100

    2. avatar JR_in_NC says:

      Yep. Well said.

    3. avatar Sam I Am says:

      Cops should be allowed to shoot ‘resisters’? Just based on the dearth of info in this news report, the “unarmed” resistor appears to not present imminent danger of serious bodily harm or death. Keeping in mind that Michael Brown was “unarmed”, nonetheless simple ‘resistance’ should never be grounds for shooting a suspect. IF, IF it turns out that the gangbanger (ooopps, I meant Cop) who shot the suspect was not justified by the imminence of serious bodily harm (and “I didn’t know if he had a weapon, but he was a drug pusher.” doesn’t cut it), then the cop should be tried for murder, and the family win in civil court to bankrupt the police force and the individual cop. There is no protection in any jurisdiction for a cop operating outside agency policy and or authority. A person can be sued independently for acting outside permissible boundaries. And if bankrupting the police force results in bankrupting the city/county, tough.

      But if the ‘resistor’ replicates the Michael Brown situation, then the police would be justified in the shooting. Kinda concerned we, or anyone else, will ever know what really happened….which is why all cops get painted with the brush supplied by bad cops. The only way to stop a bad cop with a gun, is a good cop willing to tell the truth. Frank Serpico did it; he lost virtually everything, but he stood against darkness.

      1. avatar William B. says:

        As I explained above, I use the term “resistance” to mean resistance that is both real and violent, as opposed to what is “perceived” as resistance by SWAT. I’m not talking about struggling while they try to get the cuffs on.

        1. avatar Sam I Am says:

          Ok. Thinking news sources would use a stronger term if the suspect fought with the cops, or used a weapon. The report leaves out too much information at this point. Situation worth watching for.

  51. avatar Federale says:

    Using pot makes for bad judgements, including fighting armed police officers.

    1. avatar William B. says:

      Fine, Federale (at least an appropriate handle, if you support the unfettered us of force by a totalitarian regime upon its own unarmed citizens). Do you have a shred of evidence that the alleged offender in this particular case did anything to fight the armed Policia?

    2. avatar Grindstone says:

      Do you have evidence that the deceased was using pot at the time? You might want to provide that to the police. Not that they’ll use it, since due process apparently doesn’t apply.

  52. avatar TJ Reeder says:

    Speaking for myself, I keep loaded guns near me at all times, as the old joke goes a female reporter asked a man like me what he was afraid of? his reply ” Not a fkn thing!”. I’m not afraid of trouble, but I’m smart enough to know that it comes around to somebody every minute of the day.

    So, I’m in my home, feet up, last cup of coffee of the day close at hand, and my front door gets knocked off it’s hinges, my first response is going to be grabbing the closest weapon, and you know the rest of the story, it’s the friendly local SWAT team making a mistake in addresses, now either I’m going to die, OR maybe I win the first part of the shoot out and drive them back out the door, so, now I’m alive … for a while. So, who’s at fault? Will they admit they screwed up? or will a new warrant with the right address and my name suddenly appear? now making me a murderer? Will they lie? FKN A, Am I in deep shit? FKN A! And there is no way I’ll get out alive at which point I will probably say FK IT and decide to take as many more with me as I can.

    Sooner or later some swat team someplace is going to get Rambo’d, it’s going to happen, hate to see it but when you run in a pack things get out of control.

    So what’s the difference in A home invasion done by a bunch of thugs or one done by a swat team? Usually the swat team dresses better?

    1. avatar Blain Cooper says:

      “So what’s the difference in A home invasion done by a bunch of thugs or one done by a swat team? Usually the swat team dresses better?”

      The SWAT team uses equipment you paid for, then they have the audacity to tell you that you were violated for your own good. Standard cop behavior, they assault the citizenry then inform the victims that they should graciously vote for the next pension bump.

      Cops are the worst sort of criminal because of this arrogance. Here is another example of cops demanding respect for their blatant malfeasance:


      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        the only difference between cops and criminals (in fact or in development) is the cops get those neato shiny badges.

    2. avatar Elrood IX says:

      You might get one or two but they’ll kill you for resisting.

    3. avatar Patrick Wider says:

      TJ – the law and courts are on your side if you survive the encounter:

      “Where the officer is killed in the course of the disorder which naturally accompanies an attempted arrest that is resisted, the law looks with very different eyes upon the transaction, when the officer had the right to make the arrest, from what it does if the officer had no right. What may be murder in the first case might be nothing more than manslaughter in the other, or the facts might show that no offense had been committed.” John Bad Elk v. U.S., 177 U.S. 529.

      “Citizens may resist unlawful arrest to the point of taking an arresting officer’s life if necessary.” Plummer v. State, 136 Ind. 306.

      “When a person, being without fault, is in a place where he has a right to be, is violently assaulted, he may, without retreating, repel by force, and if, in the reasonable exercise of his right of self defense, his assailant is killed, he is justified.” Runyan v. State, 57 Ind. 80; Miller v. State, 74 Ind. 1.

      “An illegal arrest is an assault and battery. The person so attempted to be restrained of his liberty has the same right to use force in defending himself as he would in repelling any other assault and battery.” (State v. Robinson, 145 ME. 77, 72 ATL. 260).

      “Each person has the right to resist an unlawful arrest. In such a case, the person attempting the arrest stands in the position of a wrongdoer and may be resisted by the use of force, as in self- defense.” (State v. Mobley, 240 N.C. 476, 83 S.E. 2d 100).

      “One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance.” (Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).

      But it’s worse than you think. Check out: “Police State USA” by Cheryl Chumley, “Rise of the Warrior Cop” by Radley Balko, and “A Government of Wolves, The Emerging American Police State” by John Whitehead.

      At least the deputy was “very shaken” and deserves our sympathy. Poor baby! He’ll be back on regular duty in a week or two.

      Just one more reason to stock up on “green tip” ammo. Otherwise, go for a head shot just like the deputy.

  53. avatar Russ Bixby says:

    Hmmm… S.W.A.T. refers to “special weapons and tactics,”:however they are frequently deployed for relatively ordinary police work.

    Further, in many departments a preponderance of the officers are virtually indistinguishable from S.W.A.T. in their dress, weapons and begaviour.

    I’d humbly suggest renaming such units “typical weapons and tactics,” or T.W.A.T.

    1. avatar DMB says:

      That must mean that guns are toys for TWATS!

    2. avatar JWM says:

      A tip of my hat to you Mr. Bixby. As usual, you brought your A game.

    3. avatar S.CROCK says:

      Well original they were going stop go with a more accurate name but even the higher ups thought it was too aggressive.

      S.W.A.T. -special weapons ASSAULT team. Yes that was actually going to be the name.

      1. avatar int19h says:

        Per Daryl Gates, the granddaddy of SWAT, it was “Special Weapons Attack Team”:

        “One day, with a big smile on my face, I popped in to tell my deputy chief, Ed Davis, that I thought up an acronym for my special new unit. He was still, as we all were, glued to the classic concepts of policing, which discourage the formation of military-type units. But he realized some changes would have to be made. “It’s SWAT,” I said. “Oh, that’s pretty good. What’s it stand for?” “Special Weapons Attack Teams.” Davis blinked at me. “No.” There was no way, he said dismissively, he would ever use the word “attack.” I went out, crestfallen, but a moment later I was back. “Special Weapons and Tactics,” I said. “Okay?” “No problem. That’s fine,” Davis said. And that was how SWAT was born.”

    4. avatar Former Water Walker says:

      Can I steal that Russ?

      1. avatar Russ Bixby says:

        But of course; feel free.

        @JWM: Hat tipped your way.

    5. avatar int19h says:

      >> however they are frequently deployed for relatively ordinary police work.

      “Frequently” is an understatement. SWAT and the people behind it hate having records of what they do, precisely because it shows just how ridiculously abused the whole system actually is. But luckily we’ve got some stats out of Maryland, when they have adopted a law mandating the PDs to keep statistics of how often and why they use SWAT teams, after a particularly high profile botched raid in 2011 (they have mistakenly raided a home of the mayor of Berwyn Heights). And so, here are the stats:

      “For the last half of 2009, SWAT teams were deployed 804 times in the state of Maryland, or about 4.5 times a day. In Prince George’s County alone, which has about 850,000 residents, a SWAT team was deployed about once a day. According to an analysis by the Baltimore Sun, 94 percent of the state’s SWAT deployments were to serve search or arrest warrants, leaving just 6 percent that were raids involving barricades, bank robberies, hostage takings, and other emergency situations. Half of Prince George’s County’s SWAT deployments were for what were called “misdemeanors and nonserious felonies.” More than one hundred times over a six-month period, Prince George’s County sent police barreling into private homes for nonserious, nonviolent crimes.”

      Here’s another interesting stat, this one from NYC:

      “In 2003 Police Chief Raymond Kelly estimated that at least 10 percent of the city’s more than 450 monthly no-knock drug raids were served on the wrong address, were served under bad information, or otherwise didn’t produce enough evidence for an arrest.”

    6. avatar John in Ohio says:

      I don’t think that I could say, “They’ve been TWATed” with a straight face. 😀

      1. avatar 2hotel9 says:

        I just wish I could convey that George Takei accent and inflection when I type ” Oh my, yes they are”! It does not quite hit the mark as is.

  54. avatar Matt B says:

    Wow! That is in my own backyard! That is crazy.

  55. avatar DMB says:

    So youre saying its ok to plant evidence on someone because they probably committed a crime. How white of you. Your job is to arrest people who actually did commit a crime and if it gets tossed then you probably didnt do your job. And its cops like you that make most people not want o have anything to do with cops.

  56. avatar Indiana Tom says:

    SWAT teams are unnecessary. We used to not have them.
    Drug laws are unnecessary. We used to not have them.
    No knock raids not producing a warrant are unconstitutional.
    This whole circus should never have happened.

  57. avatar Jeffro says:

    Without bothering to read the majority of the comments. Badge heavy cops killing unarmed and sometimes innocent people. Killing dogs, stealing cash and property through forfeiture, because ‘they’ have immunity from prosecution. WE get the treatment WE tolerate.

    WE DO pay THEIR salaries. WE need to start acting like bosses.

  58. avatar Richard in KY says:

    These kinds of stories bother me. I have an absolutely spotless criminal record. Totally clean, Including traffic offenses. I got one warning when I was 17.

    That being said… If some of our protectors and servants were to up and decide to break into my house and murder me, they would say “he had an arsenal of several loaded guns around the house”…. and sheep would say “he must have been a bad guy who deserved it.”

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