Dying on Tulsa Time: Concealed Carry Permit Holders Shoot and Kill More Bad Guys Than Cops

Tulsa! (courtesy storagelocations.com)

I recently linked to Dean Weingarten’s article Concealed Carry Permit Holders are One Third as Likely to Commit Murder as Police Officers. Here’s the flip side to that equation: “In defending themselves with their firearms, armed citizens kill 2,000 to 3,000 criminals each year, three times the number killed by the police.” [1993 Gary Kleck stats via newsweek.com] For more recent anecdotal evidence we take you to The Sooner State . . .

“Tulsa has had 11 homicides in 2015, nearly half of them by regular people acting legally in self defense,” dailycaller.com reports.”This year’s slew of regular people defending themselves is a huge spike from the previous year. In 2014, only eight self-defense homicides occurred in Tulsa, and police were responsible for six. None of the homicides this year have been at the hands of police.”

Huge spike hyperbole aside, let’s not forget that armed Americans are the thin blue line, too.


  1. avatar Sgt Frank says:

    Today cops jobs are to get there and fill out the forms …….unless crime comes to them they prevent very little.

    1. avatar Chris. says:

      Today? Try always. Sure cops will TRY to prevent crime. If they’re there to see a suspicious activity in action. Otherwise? Yeah, they’re reactive.

    2. avatar Scrubula says:

      Too many people think dialing 911 will save them from an attacker. Living in ignorance…

      Also, TTAG staff please don’t headline an autoplay video.

    3. avatar Accur81 says:

      Last week I recovered a stolen pickup truck, arrested a bipolar whacko for trespassing and resisting arrest, took 2 hit and runs, took two other crashes, impounded 3 cars, wrote 30 tickets, pushed 8 cars out of lanes, and assisted 24 motorists, and cleared a pedestrian encampment by helping my partner with a warrant arrest which resulted in the recovery of more than 50 bicycles.

      1. avatar John L. says:

        I have to ask … would you consider that a busy, slow, or more-or-less normal week?

      2. avatar Geoff PR says:

        “cleared a pedestrian encampment”

        Is that LE lingo for a bum camp?

      3. avatar Steve says:

        I have a question for you. Out of all that activity you performed that week, which of those crimes did you prevent??

        1. avatar Cuteandfuzzybunnies says:

          From the description he prevented further trespassing by the whacko. And may have prevented trespassing by the homeless. I’d like to know if the recovered truck was abandoned or actually found as a result of police investigation?

      4. avatar ThomasR says:

        It’s about deterrence. The “Btoken window policy”. When cops go after those that commit “only” vandalism, the bad guys are less likely to escalate to more serious crime. The bad guys knows the cops are out there on the job. The bad guys go elsewhere.

        Cops out here in the city of Rio Rancho near Albuquerque are known for this. They have one of the lowest crime rates in the country.

    4. avatar Ben says:

      What an asinine statement. The entire American justice system does little to prevent crime. That’s not the point. It’s a punitive institution.

  2. avatar Dave in WA says:

    Video is on Auto Play.

    1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      That is what flash video blockers are for. No videos auto-play on any website that I visit.

      1. avatar Geoff PR says:

        I am running no-script and flash blockers on Firefox.

        It’s autoplaying on me as well…

        Even worse, if I pause it, it auto-restarts the damn vid.

        1. avatar DrewN says:

          Not to mention some of us listen to music on pretty high gain while we surf so that autoplay video comes out of my headphone amp at like 150 db. Which sucks.

    2. avatar Bob in Calif says:

      Enough with the Auto play already.

  3. avatar Blain Cooper says:

    Well duh… cops kill innocent people.

  4. avatar SouthernPatriot says:

    No more Auto Plays please.

    If every law abiding good American was concealed carrying there would be a fast reduction in the criminal population.

  5. avatar Chip Bennett says:

    The “Gun Guy” says this is just more “gun violence”.

    1. avatar Gman says:

      Chip – Of course it’s gun violence. When a gun goes off and the bullet enters a living object it is usually pretty violent. It’s just another war on words used by the left, like adopting “gun safety” as a motto instead of “gun control”. The term that boils my blood the most is “common sense”; which in my opinion is neither common nor makes sense.

  6. avatar Gearmoe says:

    Just like attributing suicides to guns, like suicide would certainly not happen. Anti’s love to spin data and words.

  7. avatar Anon says:

    Honest to god the next time you post an auto-play video I’m deleting your bookmark.

    1. avatar David B says:

      You have just offended Mark N by your reference to a deity. You have also invoked and attributed (albeit tacitly) morality to said deity. Furthermore, your reference to reading through your use of the word “bookmark” is disparaging and racist. I’m thoroughly offended and it takes a lot to offend me.


  8. avatar Former Water Walker says:

    Well yeah. And good guys do it without pay or pension…buy we know that.

  9. avatar Anonymous says:

    Auto play.

  10. avatar Mk10108 says:

    If that number could be extrapolated, armed citizens employing lawful self defense would reduce the recidivism rate by 30% every year. How long would it take before our jails would be empty?

    1. avatar Omer Baker says:

      In Illinois our jails will never be empty. There’s always more politicians.

  11. avatar JWM says:

    I hope they shoot more bad guys than cops. Shooting cops is fraught with consaquences.

  12. avatar JoshuaS says:

    2-3 k? FBI numbers are under 300. While I can believe those are off, that they miss 90% is unlikely

  13. avatar johnb says:

    This is my shocked face 😐

  14. avatar James69 says:

    Auto play could be a reason for homicide……….. Also why would they put SD in the homicide stats??? This bothers me.

    1. avatar Geoff PR says:

      “Auto play could be a reason for homicide”

      Justifiable homicide…

  15. avatar SteveInCO says:


    As if the fricking ads weren’t bad enough.

  16. avatar Mike says:

    Autoplay should be chapter 1 in the book, “How to Drive People Away From Your Website”

  17. avatar Anonymous says:

    OMG! The video is on auto-play! Complete consumer meltdown. Can’t believe everyone is so upset about this. This is a new fad and more and more websites are going to do it. Also, – pretty certain TTAG is not caching this video – they are linking to the source. Adobe flash script may be set up to autoplay from the source. The solution you guys are asking TTAG? Don’t link to source videos?

    I’m just imagining it now. You open TTAG and the video autoplays. In a panic you are looking around for the volume controls. Your wife says “Are you reading TTAG! TTAG again!! You said you were working!!” Haha.
    Now suck it up – tell your wive’s that you read TTAG and move on. Hilarious.

    1. avatar SteveInCO says:

      This is a new fad and more and more websites are going to do it. (scrolls to top to kill the autoplay for the THIRD time)

      A fad huh? Well it won’t last long, as people begin to desert the sites run by f*ckers who do this.

      There are still people who have data allowances, and if this video plays four times–once on the home page, once when you load THIS page, once when you write your comment, and once again when you post the come, that’s potentially 100MB of an allowance flushed down the toilet for nothing. What’s worse is, you cannot shut the motherf*cker off at all when you are editing your comment.

      1. avatar SteveInCO says:

        when you post the come should be “post the comment.”

        And another thing.

        The solution you guys are asking TTAG? Don’t link to source videos?

        Don’t be ridiculous. Link to it. Just don’t embed it. Explain why (“the video is autoplay”). That’s a hell of a lot more polite than unilaterally deciding that someone is going to use several megabytes of data every time he loads the page. This is a situation when I hope my connection is slow, so my computer doesn’t instantaneously rebuffer the whole goddamned thing when I hit “reply”

        1. avatar Anonymous says:

          Steve is giving me a nun slapping over here.


  18. avatar aweds says:

    Are there any reliable statistics on defensive gun uses that are more recent than1993? Using data points over 20 years old won’t win any debates.

  19. avatar Joe R. says:

    Golden Driller should feature a drop leg with a P226 in .40 S&W.

    BTW, He’s standing in front of the building that houses the WORLD’S LARGEST GUNSHOW!!!


    C’mon down y’all!! : )

    Cut to Israeli supermodel(s).

  20. avatar Will Wright says:

    There’s no statistic to measure how many violent crimes and innocent deaths have been prevented by the demise of evil persons.

  21. avatar Old Ben turning in grave says:

    “…armed citizens kill 2,000 to 3,000 criminals each year, three times the number killed by the police.”

    That’s not going to sway any Democrat gun grabbers. That means armed citizens kill 2 or 3 K of their voters per year.

    1. avatar CentralIL says:

      Those numbers seem high. From the FBI statistics for 2012:

      “Law enforcement reported 720 justifiable homicides in 2012. Of those, law enforcement officers justifiably killed 410 felons, and private citizens justifiably killed 310 people during the commission of crimes.”

      The FBI statistics do miss some justifiable homicides and their numbers were higher in 1993 (about 450 for police and 350 for private citizens). Nevertheless, 2000 to 3000 criminals killed per year by private citizens seems unlikely.

      I would love to be proven wrong though.

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