Denver STEM School Students Walk Out of Vigil Over Gun Control Politicization

STEM school shooting denver

Courtesy Colorado Pubic Radio and Jenny Brundin

Whenever a high-profile shooting happens in this country, the pig-pile of anti-gun politicization takes about seven seconds to get under way. It’s usually up to full speed long before facts are known or the bodies are cold. Just watch Twitter to get a feel for the nauseating breadth of it all, if you can stomach it.

The shooting this week at STEM School Highlands Ranch outside Denver followed that pattern exactly. But the aftermath, so far, has been very different. Unlike the iPhone-wielding, camera-ready moppets who made up the Parkland Gun Control Funky Bunch, the STEM school students appear to want no part of a national media circus aimed at further demonizing gun ownership.

Last night a vigil was held to remember 18-year-old Kendrick Castillo who’s been credited with rushing one of the shooters (the school had no armed resource officer) and saving lives. He was shot and killed in the effort.

(Kendrick’s father John) Castillo said Kendrick’s friends and the coroner told him that Kendrick and another boy charged one of the shooters once they entered their classroom. The coroner told Castillo his son was a hero, that the gunfire he took would have hurt other people.

But last night’s vigil didn’t go quite the way organizers planned.

The tone changed during the second vigil at Highlands Ranch High School, as STEM School Highlands Ranch students burst into a spontaneous demonstration, protesting politics and the media.

The protest, in the form of a walkout with chants, happened after Sen. Michael Bennet, a Democratic presidential hopeful, and Congressman Jason Crow, spoke to the crowd.

Students, several hundred strong, chanted “Mental health” and complained about the media in derogatory terms.

It’s just so annoying when victims and survivors don’t compliantly fall in line with the preferred narrative.

Again, from the Denver Post:

The protest derailed the organized vigil, although students eventually went back into the gym and spoke as part of an open-microphone gathering, where they continued to vent. The event ended at about 9 p.m.

The whole display was embarrassing enough that the Brady Campaign for Civilian Disarmament, one of the organizers of last night’s event, was forced to issue an apology.

You can almost hear the hand-wringing on the part of the anti-gun left at the realization that they may not be able to parlay the STEM School shooing into another AstroTurfed anti-gun surge.

 

comments

  1. avatar Mack The Knife says:

    Parents should be licensed!

    How come I’m the only person that sees that school shooters are either over privileged, under privileged or non-privileged kids. All three groups are kids without parents!!!!

    Add an incompetent enabling government to the problem and bingo bongo, a school shooter is created.

    The next time one of these goes down consider the cause and not the tool.

    1. avatar Ian in Transit says:

      Anybody who lives here with their eyes open sees it. Many of them just don’t want to say anything because then they risk loosing the same for their kid. Highlands Ranch is the epicenter of the special snowflake children movement.

      1. avatar D.T.O.M. says:

        Buried deep in a Denver Post article is this little nugget about the shooter,

        ” The only hints of his political views involved a selfie with a rainbow flag, a meme praising former President Barack Obama and a comedy clip mocking then-Speaker of the House Paul Ryan’s support for President Donald Trump.”

        The ONLY? Really!?

        Guess a rainbow flag waiving, Trump Hating, Obama supporting devil worshiper, doesn’t fit their narrative so the media buries and downplays the information.

        Hmmm? Wonder why the students walked out?

        1. avatar D.T.O.M. says:

          Also would like to also include this from the Denver Post about the Hero Kendrick Castillo, who sacrificed all for others;

          “He told me he wanted to be a Knights of Columbus because he wanted to help not only people, but his community,” Bedard told The Denver Post in a message. “He was the bravest soul I’ve ever met and never even cared what others thought because he was too busy finding ways to make you smile.”

          This is the same Knights of Columbus that femocratics Kamala “slept her way” Harris and Mazie “just shut up” Hirono recently said about the Catholic charitable organization, that they believed the group to have “extreme positions.”

          The differences couldn’t be starker, this truly is a fight between good and evil.

        2. avatar Lost Down South says:

          Suddenly the CO shooting is off the radar…

          – Gay
          – Tranny
          – Illegally acquired weapons (no law stopped them)
          – Hated Trump
          – Loved Obama
          – Their social media covered with “red flag” issues and calls for violence…but wasn’t banned by corporate interests.

          – And now this.  Student are pissed about politicians hijacking their vigil, and chant “mental health” instead of “gun control”

          Bad day for the “left” indeed.

    2. avatar User1 says:

      Margaret Sanger [eugenicist] — the woman that inspired Planned Parenthood — wanted every would be parent to get a license for each child after they went through a screening to see if they’re fit to reproduce.

      It is quite obvious that “school shooters” tend not to have both parents around especially the father. Without a father teens become distressed and can spiral down to destruction.

      One of the shooters didn’t have a father around. That shooter being the 16 year old girl that believes she’s a male. She was trying to be a man without a male father figure in her life. It appears the mother put her on testosterone.

      Transgender people tend to have a higher suicide rate… Factor that in with teen angst, drugs, lack of balanced parenting, politics and bullying…

      This is not the first transgender “mass” shooting, it’s the first teen transgender shooting. There was another female to male that committed a shooting at her work place in Maryland before committing suicide.

      As the kids said: mental health (and parenting). The parents/adults rather castoff responsibility by blaming the tool.

  2. avatar Illinois_Minion says:

    What’s “Twitter”??

    1. avatar enuf says:

      It’s what passes for both Trump’s brain and, ironically enough, the orifice from where he passes excess intestinal gasses.

      But that’s off topic really.

      1. avatar Mad says:

        Enuf dipstick

      2. avatar Enough is Enuf says:

        “….But that’s off topic really….”

        And yet your T.D.S. lead you right to it.

        Perhaps you should seek some of this “mental health” that the students chanted about.

        1. avatar GluteusMaximus says:

          Sometimes Trump is mean and hurts his feelings

  3. avatar enuf says:

    “Mental Health”? They chanted that huh?

    Okay, that’s a lot of money. A huge amount of taxpayer money. That’s half the reason this country tore down much of the mental health system in the 1970’s. It is why Mrs. Lanza couldn’t get help for Adam, and why she died first.

    The other reason we tore it all down and began ignoring people who are sick in the head is there were a lot of abuses. But that seems to be the way we do things when something needs fixing. Throw it away and pretend the problem is solved.

    “Mental Health” is exactly correct. Doubtful many out there comprehend the scale, scope and cost of what that infers, but it is at the root of getting a handle on this Human Violence problem of targeted attacks.

    1. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

      For facility level care it’s about 100k for typical nonviolent patients, for violent and/or manipulate patients (often should be prisoners) as well as geriatric/coinciding compromised health patients it starts at 160 k and goes up with more specialized facilities per year for both. Compare to 30-40k for prison, 25ish k for group homes and 12-20 k (benefits estimate) for on their own. This is NY the last I worked in that field we know what it would/generally does cost and that there is no good answer.

      1. avatar User1 says:

        It highly depends on who is running what and what the goals are. I seen drug rehab cost just as much.

        Profiteers are milking the system because they know they can. They tend to end up being abusive too.

        A long time ago they rather scramble your brain so you can’t think, thus you won’t be a problem. These days they try to drug your brain instead.

        There isn’t enough smart people in the world to understand the human mind.

      2. avatar LarryinTX says:

        I suspect all that money leaves no better result than warehousing for $50K/year. If megabucks “treatment” cannot show positive effects, cancel it, it’s a boondoggle.

        1. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

          Sadly you are right especially for the patients that require intensive supervision. Several states use the prison system with a few pills thrown the patients way with only a moderately increased risk of abuse to the patient/prisoner. We largely did shut down institutional care in the 80’s and saw a jump in homeless population as a result. What is left over in the remaining institutions (here anyway) are the sex offenders we sent into the system so they don’t have the option of parole, the spontaneously violent and the medically compromised with co-occurrence of mental illness. Basically what even NY isn’t comfortable letting into the community.

    2. avatar Owen says:

      A lot of money? I don’t know. I do know that Bloomberg is spending 100 million on gun control this year. Maybe ask him to put that to better use funding free mental health clinics?

      1. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

        To scare the hell out of you that is 2.5% of the annual NY office of mental health budget. They had a increase in funding a few years ago of 40 million. Hate to agree with Enuf but the scale of the issue is absolutely beyond the economy’s ability to handle humanely at present. Even assuming a less regulated and corrupt state could do the job for half the cost its still insurmountable.

        1. avatar CTstooge says:

          Way easier to go after gunz, with the added benefit of disarming the public.

        2. avatar Doesky2 says:

          It doesn’t cost anything to foster a sociey that believes in a moral code that murdering innocent people would earn you a swift execution and an eternity of damnation.

          Most mentally ill people still have the capabilities to understand those simple ideas.

        3. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

          Doesky2 that sounds like it is hard and may take effort, shouldn’t the school handle that I have tv to watch. Parents have been largely encouraged to not parent. Discipline is abuse, both need to work/don’t need any man to raise my kids, teachers will handle that, etc.

        4. avatar Mad Max says:

          In some municipalities, Child & Family Services will confiscate your children if you actually “parent”.

        5. avatar doesky2 says:

          @safeupstate…

          Doesky2 that sounds like it is hard and may take effort, shouldn’t the school handle that I have tv to watch.

          Sarc acknowledged.
          Let’s see what John Adams has to say about it….

    3. avatar User1 says:

      How much does it cost to “educate” a child at public school? How much does it cost to keep people in prison? How much does it cost to continue the war on terror? How much does it cost to continue the war on drugs?

      Priorities.

      1. Substantially less per person for all but the wars those are a bit harder to do the accounting for. Absent a way to cure the conditions we are stuck between two worlds of problems.

    4. avatar Coffee Addict says:

      I offer the simplest solution and the least expensive :
      Let the People bear arms. Those with mental health issues that lead to violence with complete disregard for others will be dealt with swiftly and terminally.

      We can’t house them, cure them or euthanize them but we should be able to defend ourselves from them.

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        Don’t be an idiot. That is far too easy and makes too much sense. Just not possible.

    5. avatar Bob Wyman says:

      Ms. Lanza died in part for the behavior of her and her ex in that they committed the most common form of child abuse which is divorce. Adam Lanza’s role models were immature self-absorbed and failed to raise a child correctly. THIS is the first step in a life that will be troubled for children that begin life at the bottom and must scale a cliff without hope or help.
      But there is no regulating this problem but regulation on everything else and everyone is blamed. Intrusive government shows how it intrudes in typical finger pointing actions while passing needless laws.
      Un-loved children know it and act out. The acting out is either punished or ignored and children have very little history from which to compare and realize what is right and what is wrong. Some such as Lanza finally get the attention they crave and feel their action is “right” and “right” is the punishment parents deserve- kill their children. Most of this is in the sub-conscience and long-term thought does not exist.
      Children divide time between home and school. Trouble in the home is easily evidenced by a student’s failing grades and discipline problems at school. Intervention at that moment would be the ideal to avoid the tragic outcomes of ‘problem solving’ with a firearm which children see so often in film and television fantasy. Ask what resources does a child have at their disposal if parents are not engaged and showing love toward their own children. Unloved and unwanted infants are known to die from a disorder called “failure to thrive”. The aftermath is society showing even more displeasure and even hatred toward a once innocent child. When adults act as children then the actual children are doomed. The ignorance of this is can be seen when a group protesting Rights calling themselves “Moms”. Moms need to be home with their children and that scenario became an object of ridicule in the 1960s and the derision shown for TV programs such as Father Knows Best and the rise of the “Woman’s Movement” and “Women’s Lib”. Point a finger at that and one would be closer to truth.

  4. avatar Brodirt says:

    My feelz tell me that Camera Hogg is so much smarter than these kids.

    1. avatar Dude says:

      Like the smart politicians and media talking heads tell us: We MUST listen to the victimized survivors like Hogg (as long as they agree with us)! We don’t have to listen to that one other kid with different opinions.

  5. avatar TimeForRealSolutions says:

    Why doesn’t the Brady Campaign go after the parents of the shooter? If the anti-gun establishment want to really do something about these shooting, they can start by making the economic costs of not policing their entitled, out of control kid very high. They can fund wrongful death suits against those parents on behalf of the victims if they really cared.

    1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

      You were partially on the right track but ignored the obvious. If the parents had kept their guns locked up or in a quick access desk safe or on their own persons none of this would ever have happened bur since we have no mandatory safe storage laws this kind of thing keeps happening again, and again and again. How many times have we found out the guns were legal but left lying around the house for children to simply pick up and start using to kill people with. Its starting to sound like a broken record over and over again. By the way I hope the irresponsible parents still get their asses sued off.

      1. avatar Ian in Transit says:

        Not terribly difficult to break into most safes with the tools I have in my garage. Once the parents go to work any mildly motivated child has enough time to empty it before the parents return. Mandatory safe storage laws may frustrate your average smash-n-grab style burglar who wants to get out fast. They would have no impact on evil people who have time to plan. Absolutely zero impact on reducing these events while simultaneously creating more business for the court system. The very definition of a excrementally bad law.

        1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

          “Mandatory safe storage laws may frustrate your average smash-n-grab style burglar who wants to get out fast”

          You inadvertently made a very good point as to why mandatory safe storage laws are an asset and that is theft which funnels tens of thousand of guns into the hands of criminals and nut cases.. Most criminals are low skilled goons and in a big hurry because they have no idea when you might be coming home or if you have a silent security alarm system which means the cops are already on the way. Even a cheap safe can cause them to change their minds and get out fast to go on to break in at another house that has guns just sitting there to be picked up and taken. It happens every day.

          As anyone who is honest with himself can readily see is that safe storage not only saves lives but prevents theft as well.

        2. avatar Ian in Transit says:

          Mandatory safe storage laws are designed to prevent the poor from owning guns and make criminals out of otherwise law abiding citizens. Nothing more.

      2. avatar Chip in Florida says:

        I get what you’re trying to say but….

        “…but left lying around the house for children to simply pick up and start using to kill people with”

        *Citation Needed*

        The Sandyhook shooter’s mom did not leave firearms ‘lying around.’ The Stoneman-Douglas Shooter Parents did not leave firearms ‘lying around.’ There is a complete dearth of stories about guns ‘left lying around.’

        In other words we can have the conversation but adding hyperbole weakens your argument to the point of distraction.

        1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:


          I get what you’re trying to say but….

          “…but left lying around the house for children to simply pick up and start using to kill people with”

          *Citation Needed*

          In school shooting after school shooting the news media report the same story over and over and over. Guns left lying around the house, kids pick them up accidentally kill themselves or other kids that came over to play or if the kids are teenagers they take them to school and commit mass murder. Seriously I am not trying to insult you but do you have a TV set and do you watch it when these things happen.

        2. avatar Ian in Transit says:

          Vlad, kids with this much time to plan can easily defeat just about any commercially available safe with the tools in the average garage. Especially between the time they get up and the parents get home from school. Eventually we may find out if a safe was defeated in this case or not but it most certainly would not have prevented this or any other pre-planned school shooting. You are a fool if you think so. While safes could prevent a few accidents yearly and are a problem for smash-n-grab style burglars they provide only an inconvenience to somebody with youtube, some time and a few basic power tools.

          What requiring safes does do however is prevent the poorest among us in the worst neighborhoods from being able to defend themselves by adding a massive expense to what is already an expensive item to own. Then again you probably think poor people shouldn’t be allowed to defend themselves anyway so that is more of a feature than a drawback.

        3. avatar LarryinTX says:

          “Requiring” safes or anything else is unconstitutional on its face, especially with zero evidence it would change anything. Work on the definition of “infringed”.

        4. avatar Chip in Florida says:

          “..the news media report the same story over and over and over. ”

          Reporting the one or two stories on multiple news outlets and then referencing each others stories does not make it a large problem that needs addressing.

          Do kids hurt themselves with their parents gun? Yes. And you don’t need a TV to hear about it.

          Is it a problem that requires even more authority be given to the government to intrude into our lives and homes? HELL NO! And anyone who suggests it is can pound sand because you are just promoting the anti-gun propaganda.

  6. avatar former water walker says:

    Mental health?!? Weirdo with purple hair and a younger “tranny boy”? “They bullied me”😩 How about a death sentence for purple hair? That would sort things out!

  7. avatar WI Patriot says:

    “Whenever a high-profile shooting happens in this country, the pig-pile of anti-gun politicization takes about seven seconds to get under way.”

    The mantra of the left, “never let a good tragedy go to waste”…all the while waving their “flag”, the bloody shirt of the fallen…

    1. avatar enuf says:

      All political parties love a good crisis. Either to reinforce their position or to use it to beat up their opponents. They all take advantage of human suffering to suit their Party advantage.

      DemonCraps, RepubliStains, ain’t no difference on that score.

      1. avatar WI Patriot says:

        Never said a word about political parties…

    2. avatar Southern Cross says:

      The anti-gun groups now have “immediate-action” drills when one of these events happens. Get in fast and loud before the bodies are cold and the full report is finished.

      Although the real genius is striking at the children with the children. It portrays both the innocence of the victims and the loss of innocence in the killers who are victims of our society.

  8. avatar DrDKW says:

    “We are here to lift up the voices of victims and survivors” and direct the mass hysteria to further ‘the agenda’!

  9. avatar DJ says:

    Retired in the Denver metro area I’m so proud of these kids. All of them. Especially the young men who bum rushed the gun men and girl.

    Complete local news blackout on the trans girl and homo male. You have to go to the UK Daily Mail to get the details. Just like during the Clinton years you had to go to England to get the real news here. Heavy.com had some good details also.

    Mental health the kids nailed it. Talk about a bitch slap to the anti gunners.

    1. avatar User1 says:

      They are not going to talk much about the 16 year old transgender shooter because of age laws, which is convenient for them. They did show the 18 year old in court.

      Right now the talk should be more about the male teens that stopped the shooting. They got shot by doing what a lot of law enforcement wouldn’t.

      The local police were acting as if they “engaged” the suspects in a fight and saved the day within minutes of responding. They ran around the school for like an hour looking for more bad guys. They put on a nice show for the cameras although they already arrested the shooters.

      1. avatar Phil Wilson says:

        To be fair, I’d guess making sure the whole building is clear is probably standard procedure, even after the shooters seem to have been stopped.

      2. avatar Bob Wyman says:

        Remember that “Gun Free Zone” is a federal law and local police have no jurisdiction to enforce it and the act of carrying a firearm openly is not a crime in many places. Police do not nor are obliged to respond to any calls either and if they were they would be held liable and in a constant state of legal battles.
        No one person either can define “mental illness”, and “insanity” has varying degrees in law and medicine not to mention public perception.
        We are allowed or were under the Constitution and expected to police ourselves and our community. Police forces did not exist until close to the end of the 19th century and most of them began by pressuring civic leaders and using the power they were wielding. Now they have taken over and do as they please.
        The press and media report what they want and claim they have limitations but only when they feel inclined. The violate the Rights of people then hide behind the protections promised by government. Moral standards are set by the elitists but are only a vaporous, unseen yet constantly shifting thought process with the power of a volcano. This all leads to a constant state of debate and a clamor for cash and laws depending on who the players are.
        Mothers Demanding or public school administrators or citizens with no real stake in the matter all chime in while the people are sent the bill and have their Rights and Liberty whittled down more and more. “Ban guns” they say but not “ban schools” while the obvious “gun free zone” law failure remains in place. Politicians won’t insult the sacred word “mother” or risk re-election by denying a voter request, which goes unheeded anyway. Majority rules is a mistake in progress and the winner is the one who lies best and whose skin tone pleases them that day.
        There is no answer as to where or when but we we all know why. It will never stop, whatever “it” is, it is the human condition it reflects the times and only one person can be blamed for an action by that one person. The person charged with a crime will enjoy having their Rights respected for a short period until a jury has delivered a verdict. Future victims are those whose Rights are violated by those who make laws and those who then enforce those laws. Victims are those who are not protected by their family and community as well. Poor judgement leads to bad endings and believing “common sense” is real is a mistake.
        Giving up the protections of the inherent Right to self-defense and to own firearms is a mistake a society can only make once.

  10. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

    That school needs to be re-named ‘Kendrick Castillo Memorial’, since he showed what you must do if a murderer is trying to exterminate you…

    1. avatar User1 says:

      Every time I see a cop cowering instead of doing the right thing, I’m gong to think about Kendrick.

      Those teens didn’t run, hide and beg like they are taught to. It didn’t end like the Christchurch shooting. We can clearly see the difference between being taught to play dead and fighting for your life.

    2. avatar Jim Bullock says:

      That, right there.

      Here’s candidate credo: “We’re here to learn n train to do and be in the world worthy of our name sake: to be worth that kind of commitment if we can, and show it in our turn if we must.”

  11. avatar drunkEODguy says:

    Death of the nuclear family is the death of society. As far back as Plato and Aristotle it was realized that the family was the core on which the community, then city, then state were built on. Remove the foundation and the structure fails.

  12. avatar NORDNEG says:

    Finally, a school were the kids aren’t brainwashed by wimpy parents , & so called teachers,,, don’t hear about these schools too often,,,👍👏 well done people.(the students).

  13. avatar barnbwt says:

    Wow, this is going all sorts of sideways for the antis. LGBTWTF anti-Christain freaks as the antagonists, a hero student charging them unarmed in somewhat-vain because of a lack of armed response, the attackers surviving to be villified instead of “guns,” and now an uncooperative surviving student body that rightfully objects to tolerating the mental state of aforementioned freaks.

    This made the NPR news btw, though they failed to acknowledge just what kind of politicization that were resisting…pure oversight, I’m sure.

    I say we politicize the hell out of this. This case is emblematic of everything we are right about, and the antigun left is wrong about. Their policies allowed this to happen AND did nothing to stop it, while ours would have probably taken the school off the menu and incarcerated these nutcases beforehand. And even if that failed, an armed response would have been waiting, and limited the carnage (which, mercifully, was relatively limited in this case)

    1. avatar User1 says:

      I read a report that said there is private security at that school instead of government police and that former Marine was armed. They even had metal detectors, however, they only had them at the high school portion of the school. The shooters entered through the middle school entrance (where the adults figured didn’t need security or metal detectors).

      So even if you have some security measures kids are not stupid and will plan around them.

      This goes to show that teachers need to be ready for an armed attack. That way students don’t have to sacrifice themselves to save the adults and other kids. The armed security is great, but they still won’t make it there as fast as a teacher.

    2. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

      “I say we politicize the hell out of this. ”

      Hell, yes. Rush the shooter. If those people in the Orlando ‘Pulse’ nightclub has done that, there may have only been a few dead, instead of 40+.

      Rush the shooter like your life depended on it. That’s the message. You will be remembered as a hero…

  14. avatar M.Murcek says:

    Ban fish-in-a-barrel venues like schools, malls, churches. Seriously.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Even better, arm the potential victims to the point that attacking them will be seen as volunteering for a meat grinder, guaranteed execution, every time. That doesn’t even interfere with people’s natural freedoms. Seriously.

  15. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

    The cold hard horrific facts refute all of the excuses the Hard Right makes. The two guns used were owned by the parents of the shooter and their mentally deranged kid simply took the handguns to school to commit murder. None of this would have happened if there had been a tough safe storage law that would have let the parents know in advance that they would go to jail and be bankrupted if they were caught violating it. Lets face facts and lets quit making dumb excuses. If the parents felt the need to have a handgun loaded it could have been on their person or in a quick access desk safe because both methods would have prevented another senseless school shooting but their is no law making them do this so they simply did not do it and will not suffer in any way shape or form any criminal convictions for being irresponsible morons. Hopefully the grieving parents of the deceased hero child will sue the everlasting fk out of the moron parents that caused this tragedy , hitting people in their pocket book is often more effective than hoping irresponsible people will have any guilty conscience or any desire for redemption, its only when you bankrupt them that the rest of the irresponsible morons get the message loud and clear. Taking their money and assets will get their attention quickly. All other civilized nations on the planet have safe storage laws for deadly weapons and its not rocket science as to why they do. Even a retarded Neanderthal would understand why. There is simply no sane excuse for not having safe storage laws, none what so ever.

    1. avatar 0351 says:

      How about expecting people to make sensible and case appropriate decisions without having the State twist their arms to do so? Suffering the consequences of bad decision making as a result of freedom is for more effective than state enforced coddling, despite the extreme unpleasantness of tragedy.

    2. avatar enuf says:

      First, you do not know that the parent’s guns were not locked up.

      Second, there is no such thing as preventing anyone with murderous intent from obtaining a firearm. The instant the mind gets to that point, no amount of physical security is going to stop them. They will get into a parent’s safe or steal from someone else or buy from other criminals.

      1. avatar GluteusMaximus says:

        Once i was going to murder someone, went to buy a gun but changed my mind after the three day waiting period. Said no one ever

    3. avatar Ian in Transit says:

      At the risk of repeating myself . . . Not terribly difficult to break into most safes with the tools I have in my garage. Once the parents go to work any mildly motivated child has enough time to empty it before the parents return. Mandatory safe storage laws may frustrate your average smash-n-grab style burglar who wants to get out fast. They would have no impact on evil people who have time to plan. Absolutely zero impact on reducing these events while simultaneously creating more business for the court system. The very definition of a excrementally bad law.

      1. avatar Southern Cross says:

        But not taking steps to prevent unauthorized access plays into the hands of the anti-gun groups portraying gun owners as careless and irresponsible.

        In the gun free utopia of Australia, I have been inspected TWICE in 20 years. Once at my former residence, and once of my current residence. I found the certificate of inspection last night, dated 2010.

      2. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

        “”””At the risk of repeating myself . . . Not terribly difficult to break into most safes with the tools I have in my garage. Once the parents go to work any mildly motivated child has enough time to empty it before the parents return. Mandatory safe storage laws may frustrate your average smash-n-grab style burglar who wants to get out fast. They would have no impact on evil people who have time to plan. Absolutely zero impact on reducing these events while simultaneously creating more business for the court system. The very definition of a excrementally bad law.””””””

        Your making a very broad generalization and as my old college professor used to say, “All Generalizations are false including this one but we make them to try and prove a point”. What you posted was partially true but lets look not only at the reality of today but of small children getting shot with handguns lying around the home or rifles and shotguns as well.

        Today’s children are not the mechanical geniuses you seem to think they are nor are the majority of households equipped with the variety of tools you have either. I have been in the younger generations households who do not even have a screw driver or pair of pliers let alone a die grinder or an acetylene torch set. Many teenagers today could not even change a car tire let alone figure out how to break into a metal safe of decent quality. Trying to say that since in some cases , yes a very intelligent teenager who had access to sophisticated tools could not break into a safe would be false but do we say lets throw the baby out with the bath water. In other words do we stop using anti-lock brakes because on set out of 1 million was defective and failed or because we had a run of defective air bags we should no longer require the auto industry to install them in all vehicles. I think you can see my point.

        Now lets look at the huge numbers of toddlers and children’s lives that we would save through mandatory storage. A 4 or 5 year old toddler is not going to done a welding helmet and torch cut his way into a metal safe even a cheap one but he will pick up a dangerous pistol like a Glock that has no manual safety and inadvertently pull the trigger and shoot himself or some one else. I could document many such tragedies. Its another valid reason for safe storage laws.

        The counter argument is , “gee I could never get my gun out in time to defend myself”. I say Bullshit. I locked my guns up for over 30 years when I had kids running around my house and I could access my loaded handgun even out of my large well built safe in an instant through either a key I kept around my neck or by a quick punch combination lock. Again this type of rhetoric is only the rantings of a paranoid Far Right person who either never used any safety devices or is deliberate trying to deceive the public. I am not accusing you of this so do not get offended, I am just exposing reality because I have lived it now for over 55 years of owning handguns and other weapons. Safe storage saves lives that is exactly why every industrialized nation on the entire planet has such laws.

        1. avatar Bob Wyman says:

          Your comments have no reality or facts involved and wasted anyone’s time if they read it. Defective anti-lock brakes? Huh? Anti-lock not working means anti-lock is not working but brakes still do. And your vehicle is your responsibility but when we had required safety inspections it was a pain in the ass but when emissions tests were required the safety inspection vanished. So “safety” was not the concern after all. Well duh. If you were cash poor as many are then told you had to buy tires or be unable to drive your car it was not for your safety or anyone else’s. It was revenue and nothing more. “Fines” are a part of every cities budget and revenue also. Health and safety is an illusion thrust upon or into citizens by government that has no other reason to exist than to take and spend and take some more.
          You pay, I pay, so do not tell me or anyone what to do or demand laws to force me to bend to your mistaken notions based on sophistry you practice. If you want to bury your firearm in the backyard then go ahead. Do not tell me where to put mine and do not even ask if I have one, not your or anyone else’s business plus we do not need you promoting some citizen’s transparency law.
          Citizens who demand regulations get regulated and government intrusion plus the loss of a free market. You have no say in most of your business dealings now. Demanding protection from criminals required you to give up Liberty. Try to sue Ford or Chevy when your neglected brakes fail. Law forces seatbelts and child restraints but that is all for “public safety” isn’t it? Right? Remember the clamor for heavy duty punishments for those driving without insurance? We got it for sure but the argument was that uninsured motorists were the bad drivers on the road and their cars were old jalopies. Unsound reasoning but it made a law and now you must purchase insurance to drive and have proof even to register a vehicle! It is your kind of thinking that makes things go haywire for all. No thanks.

        2. avatar Ian in Transit says:

          “. . .Today’s children are not the mechanical geniuses you seem to think they are . . .”
          That’s exactly the point. This drama kid and confused girl were able to break into his father’s safe the morning they wanted to use the guns. Safe storage laws would have done nothing to prevent this. I will never understand why people demand new laws that would have done and will do nothing to stop or stem the problem. I guess it’s just easier to throw a fit and complain about congress critters than it is to actually address the actual problems.

    4. avatar User1 says:

      First of all, Neanderthals were not retarded.

      Requirements for “safe” storage means the government needs access to your home to verify that it’s considered “safe.” They can impose a specific type of storage that could be prohibitively expensive and not something that a person who rents can have. They are likely to also require that you do not keep magazines or ammo in the same safe.

      Quick access “safes” don’t actually stop a teenager. Most of these little handgun quick access safes can easily be defeated or broken into. They are more designed to stop 9 year olds or an intruder from quickly getting the gun. A teenager can go on Youtube to look up how to open it easily or they can just use force to get it open.

      The 18 year old stole 2-3 handguns from his parents, which could have been in one of those little quick access safes. I heard he didn’t get the rifles. That sounds like the rifles were in an actual safe that he couldn’t easily get into without his parents catching him.

      I do think parents need to be held accountable for their children’s actions and their personal failures, but I don’t agree with “safe storage” laws.

      Let’s not forget that other shooters murdered to get guns, took a parent hostage, had other people buy the guns for them or waited until they were old enough to buy guns themselves. When there is a will, there is a way.

      1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

        “The 18 year old stole 2-3 handguns from his parents, which could have been in one of those little quick access safes. I heard he didn’t get the rifles. That sounds like the rifles were in an actual safe that he couldn’t easily get into without his parents catching him.”

        You just refuted your own argument i.e. “He did not get at the rifles because they were locked up”. If the pistols had been in a safe he would not got at them either and the parents could have carried a gun on their person if they though they were threatened. Both ways their kid would not have had access to the pistols. There is no argument about safe storage in the majority of instances it works that is why every industrialized nation except the U.S. has safe storage laws.

        1. avatar basitches says:

          Get Stuffed,fascist:

          “STEM School shooting suspects smashed into locked gun cabinet to steal weapons, source says”
          https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/stem-school-shooting-suspects-smashed-into-locked-gun-cabinet-to-steal-weapons-source-says

        2. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

          basitches said: “STEM School shooting suspects smashed into locked gun cabinet to steal weapons, source says”

          Reading comprehension, reading comprehension. Notice your post said “Gun Cabinet” that is not a safe. A cabinet is made of wood.

        3. avatar User1 says:

          You said pistols can be quickly/easily accessible with safes designed for that. I informed you that these safes are easily broken into.

          What you would need is a very good steel man size safe bolted to the floor with two steps to open. That costs money. Not everyone is well off. Not everyone can get permission to put such a safe in their apartment or rental home. Some people don’t have the space for such things in the rooms where they spend most of their time. So that means they have to have a gun or two in a smaller more easily broken into safes.

          You can’t expect someone to always have their gun on their person. People take showers, people sleep, people workout, people play with their kids, some people have their mail box on public property where they can’t legally carry a gun. At some point you have to take your gun off and put it in one of those easily broken into safes while you do something. It’s unreasonable to think that you would have to open your main safe to place your gun in there so you can wrestle with the kids for 15 minutes or chase your silly cat that escaped outside again.

          What you want is all guns to be in a very secure safe and the ammo in another very secure safe at all times. You want it to be hard for a person to defend themselves at home because they have children. You want them to be forced to lock up their gun in a secure safe before they go to sleep. That’s what happens with “safe storage” laws. They make it so you can’t use firearms in self defense at home. In other countries you can’t use firearms in self defense.

          Again. Your original statement was about keeping handguns in easily to break into desk safes for quick easy access or on person carry. I told you that doesn’t solve the problem because a teen can break into the safe easily or they can attack their parents for their gun (as happened in the past).

          So you defeated your own argument, which is what I was pointing out.

        4. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

          USER ONE said

          “Again. Your original statement was about keeping handguns in easily to break into desk safes for quick easy access or on person carry. I told you that doesn’t solve the problem because a teen can break into the safe easily or they can attack their parents for their gun (as happened in the past).

          So you defeated your own argument, which is what I was pointing out.”

          Your entire post was grasping at straws. No law is fool proof and your examples in your above post were often extreme examples. In the majority of cases safe storage does indeed save lives. Seat belts do not always save a person nor does air bags or anti lock breaks but to say lets throw them all out to save money ignores all the millions of times they do work. Its the same with safe storage.

          You also mention some people could not afford a good safe. My response is “could they afford a multi-million dollar law suit which could take place even without a safe storage law and in my opinion should”. I think the argument that “I can’t afford it” goes out the window when we see that many of these children who got shot or stole guns came from homes that had two new cars in them and houses that were worth big money. And even poor people can afford a trigger lock or a desk safe or a cheap safe. It would certainly show a jury they tried to prevent a theft and would absolutely prevent a toddler from shooting himself or some one else.

          Trying to say safe storage laws have no value because they would not prevent all theft really does not make any historical or logical sense because they do save lives and trying to say that unless we reach a certain number of deaths before we have such laws is like trying to say lets not install a traffic light until the morgue is overflowing with dead bodies, that gives little comfort to the grieving of even one family especially if that family is yours. It can happen to you and to deny such is to deny reality and history.

        5. avatar Ian in Transit says:

          Vlad, again you show your ignorance of the firearms industry. The term “cabinet” as it is used here basically means it is constructed with features that are not fire rated, like a vault style safe. There is more to it but if you walked through a sporting goods store or even looked online at Walmart most of what you pointed at and said “safe” is sold as a cabinet. In fact the quick access bedside safes you advocate above are technically cabinets. Sure you can still find wood/glass display cabinets and the terms are somewhat interchangeable but cabinet does not mean wood any more than “truck” means tractor-trailer.

          Your arguments are rife with problems as many here have tried to explain but you do yourself no favors and loose what little credibility your position may have had when you resort to outright lies to support them. Pro tip when entering a conversation with people who are knowledgeable on a subject far above your own understanding . . . its best not to try to prove how much smarter you are on the topic you know little about.

          Always happy to converse with somebody who disagrees and I’m happy you are bringing up the click/view count on our site here. Without getting into the technical aspects of guns, safes and gun safety, we’re still interested in why you think the lower and middle class families should not be allowed to defend themselves the same way those with more money and/or fewer children would be allowed to?

        6. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

          to User quote————–

          What you want is all guns to be in a very secure safe and the ammo in another very secure safe at all times. You want it to be hard for a person to defend themselves at home because they have children. You want them to be forced to lock up their gun in a secure safe before they go to sleep. That’s what happens with “safe storage” laws.—————-

          Yes that is exactly what I want. Your post is untrue. I locked up my guns for over 30 years when I had kids and yes I could unlock a desk safe in seconds or even my full size safe in seconds. It would have been pure irresponsibility and pure insanity not to with kids in the house especially putting the neighbors kids at risk as well when they came over to play.

        7. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

          to User 1
          quote———-You can’t expect someone to always have their gun on their person. People take showers, people sleep, people workout, people play with their kids, some people have their mail box on public property where they can’t legally carry a gun. At some point you have to take your gun off and put it in one of those easily broken into safes while you do something. It’s unreasonable to think that you would have to open your main safe to place your gun in there so you can wrestle with the kids for 15 minutes or chase your silly cat that escaped outside again.———–quote——–

          None of this is correct in the least. I did indeed on occasion carry a gun at home and when I showered the door was locked and the gun was in the bathroom with me. No one could get in but me. If I needed to do some heavy work or play with the kids I unloaded the gun on my person or locked it up. I could access the gun almost instantly from my desk or floor safe, no problem at all. Your excuses for not wanting to sweat a little and do some work does not fly in the face of reality. I did it, for years and I proved it worked and worked very well because I was willing to sweat a little.

          And I might add your claiming cheap safes are easy to break into is not true either. Try it some time as even breaking into a cheap safe you needs tools , sometimes a lot of them and time to do it. Can a 4 year old toddler don a welding helmet and fire up an acetylene torch or get out a 30 lb saws all. Come on lets be serious even a cheap safe saves the lives of toddlers and most teenagers these days cannot even change a car tire let alone adjust up the right oxygen mix to a welding out fit that only 1 home in thousands even has. Most modern yuppie homes do not even have a screw driver or a pair of pliers let alone a saws all or torch set. Lets get real here and admit to today’s suburbanite reality. I dare say most adults today, even if you gave them the tools would not know how to use them and smash and grab street punks are even more ignorant and do not have the time to work at getting open even a cheap safe.

          I would also have to guess that weeks from now when we know more about the latest school shooting and it will show that the kid either got a key to the safe or broke into a wooden cabinet to get the guns. Lets use our heads here. To break in he would have had to have both parents gone either in the day or night. He had to be at school during the day and at night at least one parent was probably home and would have heard him breaking in or saw the damage to the wood cabinet or safe when they did get home. He only would have got away with this if he had a key and closed the safe back up so no one would have known he had gotten in to it. This means it was the parents fault for letting him have access to the key. That is exactly what the Florida kid did when he took an AR15 out of the safe at home. They said he broke into it rather than clarify that he only used a key to open it, he did not break anything to get into it, he used a key. I would guess that is probably exactly what happened in this shooting as well.

          To many times parents to cover their ass claim “I had them locked up and he broke in”. . Wrong. They pulled open an unlocked drawer with handguns in it or they used a key hanging on the wall for the drawer or wood cabinet or safe because it was left open because the parents were too lazy to keep it locked up all the time or in the majority of cases they had loaded guns just laying out in the open. Its the same old lies time after time to try and cover their own irresponsibility. If their State had a law that told them they would go to jail and be fined suddenly the guns are always locked up in a safe because they know their asses are on the line if a death occurs.

          If you scroll down to my post on the major foreign countries and how few school shooting they had from kids with guns you would realize that yes safe storage laws work because they proved it as compared with our horrifically high score which was 288 some times higher, that is a lot of dead kids. By the way their highest score was only 2 shootings that’s right just two and they averaged ZERO for the balance. Now which countries are right and which country is wrong in their dealings with the gun problem. We lose and we lose big time, the cold hard Stats prove it beyond all doubt.

    5. avatar Chip in Florida says:

      “…The cold hard horrific facts refute all of the excuses the Hard Right makes. ”

      Only to people looking to politicize the issue.

      We do not know if the guns were or were not ‘safely stored’ so your assumption that Safe Storage Laws would have accomplished anything is based on political desire to promote more gun control.

      And your fascist desires of arresting and/or bankrupting those you find undesireable (like gun owners) is clearly evidenced by saying things like “… that would have let the parents know in advance that they would go to jail and be bankrupted if they were caught violating it.” And even if it isn’t you that will be in charge, you want to have direct control of those who are in charge so you can direct the full and lethal force of the government against those you dislike.

      1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

        “And your fascist desires of arresting and/or bankrupting those you find undesireable (like gun owners) is clearly evidenced by saying things like “… that would have let the parents know in advance that they would go to jail and be bankrupted if they were caught violating it.” And even if it isn’t you that will be in charge, you want to have direct control of those who are in charge so you can direct the full and lethal force of the government against those you dislike.”

        By the way I am a gun owner but unlike you I can think clearly, logically and have full control of my mental faculties and I am well aware of the history of why many school shootings happened. You obviously live in your own little fantasy world.

        Thanks for calling me names but I will not stoop to your level. Your rantings are chilling to say the least. I think if the Brady Bill required psychological testing you would not pass it. Your outburst and ranting is totally illogical, chilling and extremely threatening.

        We do not stop using seat belts in cars because sometimes they do not work. We do not stop using air bags in cars because some of them that were defective and accidentally killed people. In the majority of instances both devices and laws in regards to using them saved thousands of lives and so too would mandatory safe storage laws. No sane person would argue otherwise.

        No law is totally foolproof but do we throw out the baby with the bath water? Do we do away with the Brady Bill. Do we do away with back ground checks for people who want to buy silencers and machine guns? I am sure your response would be yes and then you would advocate selling them on street corners to anyone who wants them say in Chicago or New York. Your response is from a person who has lost his ability to think clearly and logically. Again its chilling to realize you are permitted to own a weapon because of your bizarre responses. Hopefully this will be corrected if in your town they pass a red flag law. I would make sure they put you No. 1 on the list to visit and soon.
        Normally I shy away from advocating red flag laws because if not well written they are open to abuse but you are now convincing me we may in some circumstances need them at least in your town and soon. If we had such a law in your town we could help you before its too late.

        As far as your maniacal rant about controlling people. Sane people are aware that this is exactly what laws are designed to do, control people and their often irresponsible behavior. To insinuate that leaving loaded guns around the house is not the height of absolute irresponsibility and pure stupidity is to prove that this is why we should have such laws as it would force people like you to act responsibly “or else” suffer financial ruin and a justly deserved decades long prison term. That gets the attention of the irresponsible crowd instantly. Have people like you ever sat down and looked at why all the other countries of the world have such laws? A reasonably sane person would discover that there was a reason other advanced countries did this. Its not rocket science. Its not a socialist conspiracy as you seem to constantly rant about in your paranoia and delusions. Even a school child could figure out why such laws are necessary.

        Next you will be telling me your civil rights have been violated because your forced to stop speeding or forced to vaccinate your kids or let them take guns to school. Its because if you violate such laws you become a danger to the general public. Its also why your not allowed to drive 100 mph down the main street of your town. Its what you referred to as “controlling people”. We have prisons for people who insist on becoming a danger to the public at large especially when you endanger the lives of innocent children by speeding through school zones, not vaccinating children or leaving guns laying around the house loaded. The result is the same, dead children. Even if you are arguing that it is not ok to run down kids with a car by irresponsible speeding it is still ok to blow their brains out with unattended loaded hand guns in the house or let them take the loaded deadly weapons to school to murder their fellow students. Really can you get any more bizzare??????

        I might add people like you are the greatest asset anti-gun people could ever be blessed with because the more often the News Media reports the school shooting happened because of irresponsible adults leaving loaded guns lying around the house the more likely the majority of the general public who do not even own guns anymore will panic and say enough is enough, take all the guns away, Australian style , melt them all down and do it soon. Don’t think it could not happen here because with enough people like you promoting it because of your irresponsible behavior it probably will happen and sooner than you think. You will have no one to blame but yourself because you did nothing to stop the carnage and hoped it would just go away. The tragedy and obscenity is that since Columbine 20 years ago the graveyards today continue to overflow with the bodies of dead children who never should have died because nothing but nothing was ever done to stop it. It didn’t just go away.

        In the majority of circumstances with such laws as safe storage we could prevent the majority of the time another mentally ill child from shooting up a school and being incarcerated in the mental ward of a state prison for the rest of his or her life. Remember the child’s life you save just might someday be your own child’s life as it can at the present level of irresponsible gun owner insanity happen in your town too and probably a lot sooner than you dare to imagine.

        It is true we need more affordable mental health care but because of the Criminal Republicans we do not have affordable health care and that includes mental health care which is yet still another major reason we have so many school shootings. The very Republican charlatans that claim they are for gun rights are the major reason we will in the end up losing all our gun rights because we have so many mentally ill people who cannot get help and they will never get affordable health care under a Republican controlled Congress. To the Republicans children are expendable and social programs would take money out of their greedy pockets through higher taxes to fund such necessary programs. They just cut taxes on themselves by trillions of dollars so if you think we have any money for civilized health care or mental health care you cannot do the numbers because the money is no longer there.

        Its a catch 22 situation, vote in the Democrats and they want to take our guns but if you vote in the Republicans they do nothing to help mentally ill people that eventually go on to commit gun violence. We as gun owners get the blame and the royal screwing by both political parties. It proves neither political party gives a damn about saving the Second Amendment because both political parties know its just cheaper to melt down guns and do not kid yourself both political parties want complete control over you in a gun-less society.. That is and has been historical reality accept the truth it or not.

        1. avatar Chip in Florida says:

          “..By the way I am a gun owner”

          No. You aren’t. Because if you DO own guns then you are the worst kind of hypocrite because you obviously support YOU owning guns but no one else. How does it go….. Some for me, None for thee.

          “…extremely threatening.”

          So opinions that go counter to yours are ‘threatening?’ And you claim you can think logically?

          “.. so too would mandatory safe storage laws. No sane person would argue otherwise.”

          No True Scotsman Logical Falacy. Your argument is falling apart faster than my first Kia.

          “…No law is totally foolproof”

          Strawman. No one, besides you, is suggesting we eliminate laws.

          “Do we do away with the Brady Bill. ”

          What benefit has it provided? Surely you have some stats from even slightly reliable sources of how much benefit it has delivered to the citizens of this country.

          “… then you would advocate selling them on street corners to anyone who wants them”

          Strawman. Are you, by any chance, a farmer?

          “… if in your town they pass a red flag law. I would make sure they put you No. 1 on the list to visit”

          And you claim to be a gun owner. Fascist proto-dictator is more likely.

          “…Normally I shy away from advocating red flag laws”

          Even though you have already mentioned them twice in this comment alone.

          “… Sane people are aware that this is exactly what laws are designed to do, control people”

          So you don’t understand how laws work either? But you want to be the one included on the team that writes them?

          “…To insinuate that leaving loaded guns around the house is not the height of absolute irresponsibility and pure stupidity”

          Was straw on sale at Home Depot or something? Because you are using a whole bunch of it.

          “… such laws as it would force people like you to act responsibly”

          Nope. You have no idea what laws are, how they work, and why we have them.

          Let me sum up the rest of this for you….. you know SWFA about guns, laws, people, the real world, and the only thing you apparently know about gun control is what you are giving in the daily talking points.

          You didn’t come to your opinions using logic, reason, or even any facts so no amount of them is going to get you to change your opinion.

          I hope you live a really, really long time and do so miserably and alone.

        2. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

          “Let me sum up the rest of this for you….. you know SWFA about guns, laws, people, the real world, and the only thing you apparently know about gun control is what you are giving in the daily talking points.”

          I am disappointed in you Chip, usually your somewhat of a challenge but this time you seem like you ran out of your usual rants. None of your shallow rebuttals even made any sense. Too many problems at work to do a professional rebuttal? Its obvious.

          Lets face facts your suffering from paranoia and delusions of persecution. Your bizarre posts are self evident. You make Tale Gunner Joe look normal and sane. Make sure you check under your bed tonight or the Commie Boogie man might get you. And remember it was the terrible American Communist Party that gave low knowledge guys like you Social Security, and the Socialists gave you Medicare, Medicaid , aid to education, Veterans Benefits, Farmers subsides that Trump is currently handing out to keep the Farmers from going bankrupt, and lets not forget the Roosevelt Socialistic Programs that brought us out of the Great Depression or Johnson’s Great Society Programs or Obama’s Socialism that saved the asses of Chrysler, GM and Harley Davidson etc , etc, etc. when Romney was screaming to let them go under and lose thousands of jobs. Where were you when all this was going on??????. The list of Socialist achievements is is long but way over your head as you will deny it all whenever reality does jive with your complete lack of knowledge about Social and Political Change right here in the U.S. for the last 100 years never mind about Europe which you know zero about in regards to their history. When you make statements like ” I do not know or care about what they do” that really says it all. I have a hard time believing you ever went to college as no one with a degree could be that ignorant of history except your lord and savior Trump who probably flunked out of college.

          I am willing to bet my gun collections dwarfs yours. I see by your posts you seldom critique new guns or old ones. Its rather obvious that what you know about guns is a drop of water compared to my experience. My posts prove it and your lack of posts scream volumes about what you do not know about guns and shooting. Take a look at my posts some time and you will now realize that I have forgotten more about weapons than you will ever know. We can go head to head any time on gunsmithing, gun collecting, target shooting with rifle, pistol and shotgun and small and big game hunting as well as varmint hunting. Gun laws Ha, I have been following them for decades.

          You Far Out Right Wingers do not live in the real world you hang out on forums like this without an iota of experience among large groups of gun owners and collectors who come from all walks of life, professions and of all political persuasions. If you belonged to some of the very large gun collecting organizations perhaps you would learn what the real world of gun owners are really like. Your not capable of fathoming that Left Wingers own guns too, lots of them. You live in your own myopic little conservative world and only see the world in black and white and us v/s them. If you only knew how many Democratic hunters and gun collectors there were I am sure they would have to give you smelling salts to revive you after you fainted but then again this is beyond your limited experience in the real world of guns, that is self evident. There is a big wide world out there past the outskirts of Podunck Junction and its one horse fire dept.

          Its obvious my years of experience simply dwarf yours. When I write about gun safety its because I not only taught safety courses but I lived long enough to see the many tragedies that happen when people are not trained in the safe handling and storage of firearms. Your posts prove either your lying about your personal experience and behavior with firearms or that you have very little expedience in this field or you would never have made some of the statements you have made in regards to safe storage, accidents and the consequences of our lack of gun laws in this country and how they compare to the success of the rest of the world that has laws that we do not have.

          My post today of the 288 School Shootings as compared to only a max of only 2 in the Euro Countries mentioned simply refutes everything your ranted about in your previous post pooh poohing of safe storage and vetting of all firearms. When you compare the Euro Countries mentioned that only had between 2 in a few countries and zero in the rest of those mentioned no amount of ranting or excuses or lies or your usual bizarre spin doctoring of the facts will erase this reality except of course to those that are so mentally ill they refuse to see or accept reality and the truth.

          To quickly recap, safe storage saves the lives of not only toddlers but of teenagers as well because as Doctor Gupta said not long ago on MSNBC “We have revived many teenagers who tried to commit suicide by hanging, drowning, or overdosing deliberately on drugs but very few revivals were successful when a teenager blew their brains out with a handgun lying around the house and not locked up. You cannot spin his statement, you cannot denigrate the mans experience or lie about him either. He is a Doctor and that is his profession, yours is being a spin doctor of the truth about the consequences of guns being picked up in the home and the deaths and accidents it causes and the guns that were taken then to school to kill multitudes of children over the last 20 years.

          I am sure parents who have lost children to gun violence if they ever met you in person would grab you by your neck and slam your face against their child’s tombstone to knock some sense into your very thick skull. Of course if it happened to your child I am sure you would suddenly have to face reality and see the light for once in your life . You can pooh , pooh the numbers of deaths each year as acceptable until that one death is your child’s then your hypocrisy comes crashing down on your head whether it be because of an accident from a gun laying around the house or a school shooting in your school. Then its too late.

          The reality of the current gun situation in the U.S. simply should tell you your wasting your breath ranting about imaginary boogie men commies along with your fantasies and paranoia that safe storage laws and vetting of all guns will not be implemented soon because they will be only the minor changes in gun laws in the U.S. Even if it takes somewhat longer to pass on the Federal Level on the State level new gun laws are being passed so often its often hard to keep up with them all and most all of them are never rescinded by the courts including those staffed with Conservative Judges. That alone should tell you your on the losing side. Its all happening because rather than implement safe storage and vetting of all guns the Far Right did nothing and now in the coming elections its going to be all or nothing with the anti-gun people and they will hold nothing back because nothing was done in the last 20 years since the Columbine Massacre.

          We have now in the last 20 years raised a whole generation of traumatized children because we did nothing to stop the attacks on them and those millions of children are for the most part now all anti-gun to the core and its all our fault for sitting back and just wishing it would all go away. It was more important for Republican Prostitutes to bend over and take NRA payola than to do anything to stop the madness. I sometimes wonder who was more insane, the people that did the killings or Back Woodsmen like you who refused to stop it. At least the people who did the killings were mentally incapable of knowing right from wrong but you people did know right from wrong but sat back and did nothing. Whatever restrictions come after 2020 will all be far , far worse than they what they would have been because again people like you refused to do anything for the last 20 years. It did not just go away, it got worse and goes on and on and if you think the American Public and Congress is going to do nothing about it after 2020 you have been overdosing again on your meds. If Trumps new tariffs today at 25 per cent crash the economy a pissed off public is going to make sure that there is not one Republican left in office during the next elections and you then can kiss all your guns good buy. The good news is then we will finally get affordable health and drug care and any retried person would go for that trade off without thinking twice about it. A gun collection means zero to people who have over 1 million in bills for health care. Again thank the Republicans for that mess we are all in now.

        3. avatar Mad says:

          You are just another gum flapping left wing loon.your long rant proves to me your IQ isn’t as high as you believe.another legend in your own mind.oh and Trump didn’t get to where he is because he’s stupid

        4. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

          to Mad

          “You are just another gum flapping left wing loon.your long rant proves to me your IQ isn’t as high as you believe.another legend in your own mind.oh and Trump didn’t get to where he is because he’s stupid”

          It was revealed this week Trump has crashed every business he started and lost billions over the last 20 years. He started out with his Fathers money, lost it all and theN was bailed out by the crooked banks who knew he was a big time loser but were capitalizing on his name so they gave him new loans. TRUMP IS INDEED A MORON BOTH IN BUSINESS AND AS PRESIDENT.

    6. avatar LarryinTX says:

      Vlad, your simplistic solution would require at least one constitutional amendment, and then would still not work. Crazies will get guns. How do you prevent them from massive killing? By making certain that others, around them, are also armed. You speak of the “hard right”, while you are clearly of the hard left. There have been, for many decades, areas in America where it was all but impossible for a normal person to own a gun, much less carry it. Most of those areas had ENORMOUS crime problems, look it up, Chicago, NYC, LA, if you just look around you discover your supposed easy fix is incredibly stupid, we’ve already tried that and it did not work!

      1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

        “. There have been, for many decades, areas in America where it was all but impossible for a normal person to own a gun, much less carry it. Most of those areas had ENORMOUS crime problems, look it up, Chicago, NYC, LA, if you just look around you discover your supposed easy fix is incredibly stupid, we’ve already tried that and it did not work!”

        You have been reading too much NRA propaganda. We have problems in big cities because States with lax gun laws funnel in tens of thousands of second hand guns to crime ridden areas. They also funnel in stolen guns because we have no safe storage laws. Both proposed laws if implemented would cut way down on the guns being funneled into high crime areas. No law is always fool proof so do we do we throw out speeding laws through school zones because some people disobey them and let every one speed through and kill kids. Its no different with the above safe storage and universal back ground checks that could be implemented. In other words its pure insanity not to use these tools, other nations do and have way less problems than we do with guns.

        Notice that none of the above provisions would take away anyone’s guns so what in the world is the big deal about not implementing them now. When we continue to sit on our lazy asses and do nothing and the accidents and school shootings pile up the anti-gun people have more and more ammo to start demanding gun confiscations and outright bans. Its that simple and its not rocket science. We are proving to be our own worst enemies.

  16. avatar 0351 says:

    It’s always fun to see everyone talk about your home like they know anything…

    Douglas county and it’s neighborhoods have always been a bit different than most of the other metropolitan areas. It is home to the mildly affluent; medical professionals, middle managers, police officer, small business owners…those fields lend themselves to a more realistic mindset about politics, business etc. This does in fact *tend* to be extended to their families. This generally results in a fair amount of, if not outright conservatism, then fair minded Independence and a dislike of demagoguery. As for law enforcement – this is the kind of county, on the outskirts of Denver, filled with concealed carriers who are not unknown to pull quietly off the road in the middle of the night when they see an officer or deputies up ahead having pulled someone over (I’m case they need help). Bear in mind that many of the responders had family at that school. In other words, the usual police haters, political hacks, leftist fools(tools?), and far right b**tards should really, for real, kindly keep your idiot opinions to yourselves.

    It’s not perfect; I’m not pleased with some of the Sheriff’s decisions lately (previous to this) after years of support. And there has always been an undertone of mostly unwarranted superiority in the local culture. But hey, at least it’s not Aurora! JK, sorry to everyone in Aurora…

  17. avatar daveinwyo says:

    My take-away; The kids are becoming “woke”. This is the second time a shooter was delayed/stopped by a STUDENT, not a cop, not a teacher, a student. Maybe the students are realizing that to fight back gives all a better chance of surviving this madness. The student at UNCC was in ROTC, the student here was in the delayed entry program for the Marines.

  18. avatar Shire-man says:

    I’m surprised the media or the Bradys would want to draw attention to two mental case trannies self medicating with homicide.

    1. avatar Ing says:

      They *don’t* want to. Of course. But having started their usual breathless sensationalism, they can’t just not report on this incident at all…

      Hence the attempt to go Parkland Part 2 on this before the identity of the perpetrators enters the public consciousness. Never mind who did it. Skip straight to da ebil gunz!

  19. avatar Jim Bullock says:

    College kids, worshipers at Mosques n Synagogs, bystanders n friends, some guy on his porch, teachers on the spot when all the nonsense failed…

    How dare Spartacus, Kamala-extract, DiFi, Rep Nuke’em and the rest insist on leaving people like these only the option to die or abandon their friends.

    Now, another couple high school kids showed what people can do in the face of manufactured disaster. What would people like these do if we let them?

    “No greater love hath any man, than he lay down his life for a friend.”

    All honor to them. How about we treat them that way?

  20. avatar Tt78 says:

    Eh Parkland already killed the Hearing Protection Act and any other significant pro-gun legislation that could have passed the two years the GOP controlled both chambers and the Presidency. Damage done and it’s unlikely the GOP takes back the House.

    Waiting on the Supreme Court to take years to make decisions doesn’t bode well either as the Circuits and lower courts just ignore them now.

  21. avatar Ing says:

    It did my soul good to see all those kids call bullshit on the anti-gun political circus and walk out. There might be hope yet.

  22. avatar GlockMeAmadeus says:

    Punish these brats for their insubordination against their Democrat/communist programming and staged virtue signalling by the administration.

    Because after all these millions of dollars building this huge Democrat Communist Educational Control System these kids should know damn well that guns, global warming, immigration laws, white nationalists and low teacher pay are the reasons for these tragedies, and the only time “politicization” should be used is against Trump, when he offers condolences.

    1. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

      While you were joking(hopefully) that is about how it would play out in most of the news/government/school boards up here. Granted some of the counties may have other things to say.

  23. avatar kdb says:

    When I was growing up there were guns in the house ,in the open not hidden, we knew better than to mess with them. Unless we wished to have at lest a very sore butt. All it takes is a little serious training.

    1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

      “When I was growing up there were guns in the house ,in the open not hidden, we knew better than to mess with them. Unless we wished to have at lest a very sore butt. All it takes is a little serious training.”

      That may have indeed have been true at one time in the fog and mist of the distant past in rural areas but today both parents must work and we have many latch key kids. And lets be honest part of the reason kids did not pick up guns in the old days was that the mother was home all day and did not work and was their to watch over them when “kids got rambunctious” like normal kids do. Today she is not home and guns laying around the house are a prescription for disaster. You read about kids getting shot in the home all the time. Today is not the past and never will be again.

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        Bullshit, you have absolutely no facts to back up that baseless assumption. See below.

        1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

          “Bullshit, you have absolutely no facts to back up that baseless assumption.”

          Its not an assumption that last year we had 1,300 gun shot deaths of children from guns laying around in the home. That’s not an assumption and that is not bull shit.

        2. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

          Vlad most of those were suicides and even if they were all tragic accidents we get more kids drowning in pools in an average month than that (obviously most occur in summer). Not saying it isn’t horrible but I will flat out tell you that your methods juice isn’t worth the squeeze.

        3. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

          to Safeallupstate

          quote:———————-Vlad most of those were suicides and even if they were all tragic accidents we get more kids drowning in pools in an average month than that (obviously most occur in summer). Not saying it isn’t horrible but I will flat out tell you that your methods juice isn’t worth the squeeze.—————–quote

          The facts are that plenty of 2 and 3 year old toddlers accidentally blew their heads off with guns laying around the house and if the teenagers had not had access to guns laying around the house its fact that doctors and emergency first respondents have indeed saved teenagers lives who tried to drown or hang themselves or take a bottle of aspirins. With a gun you get no second chance when attempting suicide when you blow your brains out. Your response in reference to teenage suicide is illogical and totally misleading. Perhaps its actually your response that is not worth a squeeze to quote you. Now I will use my own response , ever heard the old fashioned response “scorch out”.

        4. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

          TLDR Vlad has issues with math. Ok buddy go screech into the void with the talking points and find some other commies who care about whatever you are trying to sell. Also ALL OF THEM

    2. avatar LarryinTX says:

      VERY little training, I figure I spent a total of around an hour, for 2 kids. Not counting range time, of course. My main lesson began with the “treat every gun as though it’s loaded”, then quickly changed to “because they are.” If you found a gun in my house, it was fully loaded until the day I bought a Glock, I still cannot bring myself to leave it with a round chambered. Handguns, rifles, all were loaded. Never had a hint of a problem.

      1. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

        Always wondered if that was a Texas thing when I was in the army, could not get those kids to stay yellow let alone green if they had mag/ammo. While I wouldn’t keep things loaded at home it’s more about neighbors/friends/visitors of any sort being totally irresponsible than any concerns for the kids. Also why the fear of glocks it’s about the equivalent of a dao revolver for no safety issues?

        1. avatar Jim Bullock says:

          Couldn’t agree more. Since when is it O K to mess with someone else’s stuff, that you don’t understand? Since when is it their problem to keep their stuff so you won’t hurt yourself, messing with stuff not yours, that you do not understand, in someone else’s place?

          In other news, my kitchen knives are quite sharp. On the blade part. Someone might get hurt. Grabbing them wrong. After taking them off the magnet. After finding them on the magnet, up under the cabinet. In my kitchen.

          I do not consider this my problem.

  24. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

    Since 2009

    U.S.A. 288 School Shootings
    Canada 2
    France 2
    Germany 1
    Japan 0
    Italy 0
    UK 0

    The question is What are they doing right and what are we doing wrong?

    Could it just be they have complete vetting of all firearms sales, safe storage laws and affordable mental health care. All these are being blocked by the Republicans. Do you still think the Republicans are on the side of gun owners or give a damn about the Second Amendment? Obviously not. They only give lip service to preserving the Second Amendment but in reality do everything they can to destroy it. Together with the Anti-gun Democrats the Second Amendment is slowly being eroded away into oblivion. There is no political party for Gun Owners.

    1. avatar EWTHeckman says:

      Shut up, Vlad.

      You’ve already amply demonstrated your belligerent ignorance for all to see.

      1. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

        Why do I get the feeling that the data used has a flawed methodology…… almost as if it includes gang activities inside the x hundred foot school zone and literally any discharge of a firearm in that area including police. Nah nobody would lie that bad to push a control narrative.

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