TTAG Commentator Danny says “I didn’t even want to watch the video to see what went wrong. Even after the public polls were almost completely against the idea, the ‘2nd Amendment is outdated’ group won this debate. How the hell does that work?” Dunno. But I do know that our natural, civil rights are enshrined in the bill of rights. Which, thank to the Founders, isn’t easy to change. Thank God. Oh, and my Richard Luger Indianapolis debate antagonist, Juan Pacheco, doesn’t want the first five of our encounters videotaped. Huh.
I pay $49 a year for Gun Tests, have for 15+ years. My sons are reading their ways through the archive. TTAG is a lot more than just Gun Tests, but this site and TFB are the only ones I visit regularly. There is a correlation leaning towards causation in your review policy.
Sigh
I would say that you should play entirely by his rules. You should ABSOLUTELY agree that these “debates” will not be video-taped under any circumstances, then show up with a crew using state-of-the-art video cameras using only electronic media.
I would ask why he’s afraid and make sure that is being taped.
I don’t have a problem with it. In the words of General Mattis:
“Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
I would be fine with leaving out Article II altogether. Though, I may be biased because I don’t think it’s the government’s business to regulate marriage and the War on Drugs is a miserable trillion dollar failure that is one of the primary contributors (legislatively speaking) to our current woes.
Even so, this (to me) is Kosher as-is.
When seconds count, help is just minutes away.
People don’t like losing or being shown that they’re wrong. Mr. Pacheco doesn’t want the debate videotaped, and Moms Demand a Million Actions doesn’t allow comments on their posts/videos, because it leaves the door open for those who would disprove them and possibly sway viewers away from their side. They can shout about gun accidents and kids and mass shootings all they want, but most of them know that if even one of their theories about guns was true there would really be blood running in the gutters. But there are so many millions of guns and gun owners in this nation and there is NO blood in the streets, so their ideas about the inherent evil of guns are blatantly bogus. Allowing even one dissenting comment that logically deconstructs their propagandist ‘facts’ would collapse the entire house of cards their platform is built on. In the end, their side is based upon irrational fear and dislike for something inanimate, and our side is built upon knowledge and mastery of those inanimate objects, as well as facts and statistics, not to mention a deep love not just for those objects but for what those objects afford us: safety, freedom, and a boatload of fun. They will never ‘win’ this debate because they aren’t protecting anything, merely trying to take what others have. They don’t ‘love’ civilian disarmament. We, however, have these tools that we enjoy, and a culture of safety and freedom borne from them, that we love absolutely and will go to great lengths to defend. Let them wallow in their pacifistic self-hate, we cherish our rights and our freedoms. We will win this ‘debate’ because we fight with more logic, reason AND heart. They have no heart. Literally, probably.
Hey, I learned a new term; The Dozens. Thanks for the link, RF! 😀
Best DOZENS snap ever: “Yo’ mama so far, the label on her drawers say, ‘BOULEVARD’!”
I thought Dershowitz brought up a good point, one that probably carried the day in fact in the debate, in that all agreed that the right to self defense is fundamental and inalienable. Parsing the details of that conjecture is where the Devil lies. I believe that the right conveys any and all means and tools necessary. Them, not so much. That’s why we have to fight them wherever they are. They will do their level best to dilute the right to meaninglessness. Screw ’em.
This picture is just awesome. African american guy with that poster – awesome. And it is very true and has a clear point. – Just look at North Korea. They are all basically slaves.
Does anyone think for even a moment that if *poof!* 1000 rounds ammo and an AR15 were to suddenly appear in every home in North Korea overnight that their suffering and enslavement would persist? It would be chaos and anarchy and south Korea would likely absorb them. Methinks anyways. South Korea is known for welcoming fleeing refugees/defectors.
So, I read an article that said one officer had declared him dead and that’s why help was withheld. I know from first hand experience with our local swat teams (City and county), both have a Paramedic on the team who would be able to determine if someone is dead. Anyway, if they thought he was alive and the situation was “Hot” they could have pulled him out to rescue. Extraction should have been an option…
I’ve had some success gaining a hearing from folks of an “artistic” bent by describing the utter elegance, in both the artistic and engineering sense of the word, of a creation that can combine such profound strength, precision, and ergonomic and visual grace as a fine gun. When I point out that some of the same royal or noble patrons who commissioned the worlds great music, painting, and sculpture were equally appreciative and willing to support talented gunmakers as the were other artists, they start to listen.
Then I explain that the reason gun making attracted the worlds finest artists and artisans, as well as the patrons to support them, was the universal acknowledgement of the absolute primal status of the gun (and other, earlier weapons) in providing safety, sustenance, and freedom to their owners.
It’s no wonder that weapons are often so beautiful that even the most peace loving aesthete will often be uncomfortably fascinated at the sight of an inlaid and engraved SAA or early Scheutzen rifle.
The human race has always lavished their best efforts on creations they value most.
Never looked at shooting this way, but…The smile on my face every time i go or anticipate going shooting, is for this very reason. I’ve never thought of the act of shooting as beautiful. But awesome and fulfilling in and of itself – whither not the target is hit, or the game is bagged. Oh, yeah. This is why people celebrate by firing guns in the air. As irresponsible as that may be, one can understand the impulse.
It’s a skill but not an art. Art is making something of value and beauty. Shooting is a skill.
I don’t know why the video starts of with Bob Rosencranz (perhaps to state the context of the debate), but his statement tells us everything we need to know, “Well the world was very very different when this [2nd] amendment was passed.”
With respect to human nature and government, I will emphatically state that Mr. Rosencranz is absolutely wrong. There always have been criminals and tyrants throughout world history and their always will be … both in the public sector and in governments. Epic fail Mr. Rosencranz.
If you threaten my wife or son, I will do whatever it takes to stop you. If I survive, great, but they’re my primary concern. You don’t even register. I’m expendable in that circumstance.
I really like this incident as an example. He was perfectly justified in defending himself regardless of possession of weapons by these punks…being outnumbered has been established as a disparity of force in legal precedence.
It’s nice that no one had to get injured or lose their life, but if I’m accosted by a *group*, I’m defending myself with my weapon to the extent necessary. Three or four pairs of legs can easily stomp someone to death.
This is why I make my own Buffalo wings.
Guy received a couple of citations. In my state he probably would have had trouble bonding out…
As a 17 yr veteran LEO here in sunny AZ I’m bemused by the abject stupidity of a minority of open carry ‘activists’ that try to goad us into YouTube confrontations during a stop/contact. We’ve had a few who fail to recognize that AZ is not a commie state & open & concealed carry is perfectly legal on public property. They seem to want to make sure THEIR rights are not being violated & are very confrontational. Ironically, most AZ cops really don’t give two shits! We’ll take the weapon for everyone’s safety & promptly return it when done. Thankfully, 99% of the pistoleros I’ve contacted are smart, polite & know that they’ve got nothing to fear. The contact with police goes a lot smoother of the citizen isn’t looking for a confrontation. You get more with sugar than you do with vinegar.
In my view, at the core of it all, the liberal elite, not the everyday working type, are scared poo poo less over anybody having firearms but their own troops ( their private little soldiers). Why is that? They do not want to rid us of firearms to save anybody but themselves. I have no intention of overthrowing the government, doubt any of us do. There are people out there that will break the law no matter what, all too often insanity is not a reason, but an excuse. How many people legally own firearms in the US? How many go on killing sprees? If 90 million(?) firearm owners are crazy gun nuts, then we have more than a constitutional question here. (My numbers there are probably in error). Remember, owning a firearm for defense is trampling on the rights of criminals/would be criminals to do whatever they please. I do not wake up in fear of my life, I never have, and I never will, (have had a few concerned moments) firearm or no firearm. But, it is a choice, let them have their own personal ban, I will respect that, not sure everybody will. Wonder how many people were not shot today?
The term “Special Agent” and “Agent” have specific legal meaning. Both generally mean anyone who acts on behalf of the government. It is not specific to law enforcement powers granted to federal employees, but is germain to their area of responsibility. The “Special Agent” term is used by OPM as a position title for zcertain investigative positions. Legally, it describes that the has employee has a focus, investigative, enforcement or regulatory, for specific chapter of the US Code. The term “Agent” is the same, but for a much broader subset of US Code. A TSA employee can be an Agent of the government in a legal sense in that they preliminarily investigate and enforce US transportation and terrorism code relating to air travel security. However, TSA Special Agents, assigned to an internal Office of Investigation, are generally limited to investigation of criminal acts that occur in violation of internal TSA policy and result in criminal prosecution, usually by corrupt TSA employees.
New York and New Jersey especially make California seem like Texas.
Having walked into a gun store to buy a handgun in California, ignorant of any of the laws, and purchased on 30 minutes later (10 minutes to get the HSC) and picked it up 10 days later, I still have a hard time imagining the ordeal in New York City or New Jersey. I thought I had it bad.
Never waited more than 10 days to get a gun here. And even that is bad enough.
I dream of a day that Texas is like Arizona, California like Texas, and New York like California. Each would be a significant step in the right direction (giant leap in the latter two cases).
I’ve been carrying a Kahr pm9 for 5 months now. In the summer, I found that the gun absolutely disappears in a cargo pocket. Easy solution.
It fits OK in the front pocket of my jeans now that it’s cooler, but it looks a little big there. Not the best concealment. It also completely disappears carried IWB at 5. I’m in OK shape, but still working a bit to have enough room in all my pants for the gun and myself!
Now that it’s even colder, I’ve also found jacket pocket carry to be easy and 100% stealthy.
Navy SEALs are trained to administer muzzle strikes in certain situations when an unarmed person is advancing on them. The technique is used before firing a shot, not when ammunition is expended.
So this muzzle brake just causes puncture wounds instead of bruising.
Ah BHP…how I love thee. It’s such an elegant piece of engineering. It kills me that we don’t have the same legion of manufacturers producing clones of the original design like we do with the 1911. Maybe some day…
Debate: The 2nd Amendment Has Outlived Its Usefullness – The Truth About Guns
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