Looks like the Second Amendment Foundation’s not the only gun rights org who sees the Manchin-Toomey deal as a net plus for gun owners. The Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms has officially endorsed the compromise. From WaPo: “’We decided to back it because we believe it is the right thing to do,’ said Julianne Versnel, director of operations for the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, which counts 650,000 members and supporters among its ranks. In explaining the decision, Versnel cited the value of a strong background check system for most gun sales and provisions that would prohibit establishment of a gun owner registry by the federal government.” In addition to enabling a vote that “does something” about handgun violence, the amendment also includes, in Alan Gottlieb’s words, “interstate sales of handguns, veteran gun rights restoration, travel with firearms protection, civil and criminal immunity lawsuit protection, and most important of all, the guarantee that people, including federal officers, will go to federal prison for up to 15 years if they attempt to use any gun sales records to set up a gun registry.”
CCRKBA is not exactly wholly separate and independent of the SAF.
Monday is going to be interesting…
And I’m sure the Federal Government and the DOJ will be happy to criminally try those in the Federal Government who break the laws (ie Eric Holder – Contempt of Congress) /sarcasm off – and I’m sure they’ll be equally happy, dare I say ecstatic to throw any and every criminal law and statute on a civilian in order to make a statement that they’re doing their job and making an example.
We should try to be thoughtful and rational in reacting to gun-related developments, both because it’s the right thing to do, and because it creates a huge contrast with the gun control crowd. If we use that approach, the only major objection I see to the Toomey bill is the absolutist one that there should be no background checks of any kind, ever. While that is a theoretically defensible position under the Second Amendment, I’m not sure it’s what we should want.
Do we want convicted violent criminals and clearly dangerous people to be able to buy guns legally?
Do we really think that we can/should get rid of ALL background checks? If not, then let’s support those with the connections, energy, and intelligence to use this kind of legislation to give up virtually nothing additional substantively, while getting meaningful additional protections for gun owners. Nothing is going to be perfect, but this bill sounds pretty good for the real world, and, additionally, might have the benefit of “doing something about guns” so that all of the other, much worse, proposals go away.
If you don’t think we’ve thought about this bill thoughtfully, then you haven’t been paying attention. This bill is terrible. Yes there are some sops for gun owners, but they aren’t strong enough to override the problems with the bill.
No, gun owners aren’t against background checks in general- especially if voluntary. But here is the thing- once they have internet sales, they’ll come for private sales after the next mass shooting. Just giving in now isn’t a solution. They’ve shown we’ve caved on this, and they’ll try to get us to cave on the next thing as soon as they think they can.
I suggest starting here and after reading that, check out the other posts there for more problems.
So the local FFL will be saddled with sitting on the gun for 10 days to check with local PD to make sure it isn’t hot, come up with some sort of release form so he won’t be liable for anything that happens to the gun while in his possession and have his backroom filled with other people’s guns instead of the normal stock he makes his living off of.
Any guesses as to what he’ll have to charge to make it worth his while?
Read the proposal.
And this is how it goes… “First they came for the Communists”… And it ends with “there was no one left to speak for me”.
Do we not have enough laws on the books? For all those saying this is reasonable, that’s what they said when they passed the machine gun regstry, the NFA, the original background checks etc… it’s always reasonable, then proves to be ineffective and then we have to enact more reasonable laws. This will not stop crime, just create criminals, and make it more difficult and expensive for the average citizen to buy a gun. We need to say “No!” across the board. No, we don’t need new laws, no we don’t need universal background checks, no we don’t need any more reasonable laws. We need leaders who fix the economy, who enforce the laws we already have, even when their friends are the ones breaking them, and who don’t focus on the new shiny object of the month and ignore the problems that are creating these situations. This is how we lose our freedom, one reasonable law enacted after another… for the children.
I’m skeptical of any individual or group with self-proclaimed common sense. Those who possess it don’t need to broadcast it in order for it to be apparent.
When , Where can i buy one. What will it cost me. I have my ffl. and would like to buy one at the right price ? Thanks Billy
People MUST realize this is more than a net plus for gun owners, it is a BOON for the future of interstate sales, carry, and competition in the gun industry and with prices. If you can go to NH to buy a handgun, why would you spend 25% more in Massachusetts? Remove thine head from thine hindquarters, and get behind this bill.
how about we have universal constitutional carry and sales without all the other parts of this bill? Stop smelling the roses and realize you are standing in a pile of manure…
Hardly. The only people they are restricting are the bozo private sellers at gun shows selling Yugo SKS’s and mosin nagants to pure strangers. I.E. the shadiest sector of the private sale market. I’m A-OK sacrificing them so I can carry across state lines when I drive between FL and MA 3x annually. If they wanna sell their guns, they solicit people outside of gun shows.
What am I missing? Why should wesacrifice anyone? this is such a slippery slope!
There’s more to it than that. There are other laws they reference that are changed whose text is not listed. They do not go into the details of the implementation of the system by which veterans may be adjudicated unfit for ownership. They mention a Secretary, not by state, how many and by which rules they are bound. Too many parts of this bill are nebulous.
What ground work is this laying for the next massacre?
First they came for the “bozo private sellers at gun shows.” What’s wrong with being a private seller? What have you got against affordable weapons so that all citizens can exercise their 2nd Amendment rights?
“The only people they are restricting are the bozo private sellers at gun shows selling Yugo SKS’s and mosin nagants to pure strangers.”
Elitist much? You must belong to that gun club that Biden hangs out at.
A slippery slope to conceal carry reciprocity and free commerce of firearms between state lines. Sign me up.
I have nothing against private sellers. But if we remove the bogus “gun show loophole” from the liberal lexicon, while also getting CCW reciprocity, then I’m all for it. 95% of gun shows are FFL dealers, perhaps more. This is not a sacrafice, it is a bargaining chip. Liberals have been chanting gun show loophole for the past 10 years, they’ll sacrifice their first born to get rid of the “loophole”. I suggest we take that first born.
@Nate. I make no illusions that Mosins or SKS’s are being used in crime. I simply state that it is my direct observation that it is the private seller at the gun show that is the least common denominator of the private sale world. I don’t care for them, they gouge prices, they sell shoddy wares, and I’ve never met one I would trust to buy a firearm from.
As for the CCW reciprocity, it IS their first born, short of allowing us to own permitless class III items. The ability to wander the entire 50 states with a concealed firearm? It would do the most good of any single piece of legislation for our cause.
Do you seriously consider the handful of private sellers at your local gouge show to be worth that? I don’t. If you wanna sell a gun at a gun show, say “hey I have such and such, meet me here.” Totally worth the ability to walk through Washington DC with my wheelgun, in my opinion. I’m all for it, in its current form.
What useful idiots. Line up now with the political liberal elite. Hang with them tomorrow when us non-bullshitter show up.
This is government & it is garbage. When the bill reads that the people(CC holders) are responsible for keeping the peace I’ll like it. This is an obamabortion, we may have to swallow this crap. The end game is saving minority criminals at the expense of good citizens, if you think I’m wrong look at Chicago. The “people” can clean up that shithole in 2 days, “problem?” lots of criminal pricks will die. This bill does not address that, Randy
“LOL crap, stupid dumb Obamanation Chicago criminals”. Seriously, did you read the bill. Either you haven’t, or you’re so hopped up on “Don’t tread on me” that you are blind to the opportunity we have here. I don’t know which is worse.
How about you extricating your head from your posterior and “get behind” the 2nd Amendment? What part of “SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED” do you not understand?
Well I say its not the worse bill but if remains clean i.e. no Gun and Mag amendments attached its not as bad as Schumer’s bill is.
Well I cant hate the guy but giving a inch to antigunners makes it worse a few years from now because they started the foundation of a registry and try to make Schumers bill law is step 2. But this bill is by no means a threat like the hag’s AWB bill.
lol@horseshit. You’ll fit in fin here in Austin.
Haven’t the gun rights proponents been fighting all along that criminals don’t obey the law? So what exactly is a felony for creating a gun registry going to do it 1. they don’t get caught 2. those who commit such crimes rely on presidential pardon/powerful string pulling to make the charges disappear? Once the registry is created, it’s created, it’s like the internet, once it’s out there, it’s never coming off.
we already HAVE background checks at the state level!!
The problem with gun legislation (ANY gun legislation) is that during the sausage making, it often comes out tasting a little funky. Ex. FOPA also gave us the Hughes Amendment. When deals get cut, you don’t know what you are going to end up with. High risk game…
I was at the track for the “generic stock car racing entity” NRA 500 Saturday night. If you’ve been to one, you know the “generic stock car racing entity race teams” have trailers full of their crap…shirts, hats, shot glasses…etc for sale. There was a “NRA Experience” tent which let you take your picture in front of another “picture of packed stands/bleachers”…meh.
There was no NRA trailer or booth selling hats, t-shirts, lighters, mugs…the stuff you see on the NRA store website -without the shameless “generic stockcar racing entity” plugs…disappointing -guess the “generic stock car racing entity” didn’t want competition for their texas nra 500 t-shirts and pins which were nearly sold out two hours before the race started.
BTW, for the first time since 08′ we sat in traffic on a main highway to get into the track. I have not seen that many people at TMS since 08’…even the back stretch stands were open and populated which hasn’t been a guarantee in the last few years. They’re never open for the open wheel events due to popularity of the league in the region. So either the economy has turned around or the Pro 2A rights folks showed up big time to support the rights and freedoms spelled out in the Bill of Rights…you decide which is easier to believe
Whatever happens, I believe we are going to come out OK this time. I’m really going to enjoy watching the grabbers squirm in the next few days. They certainly enjoyed kicking us around for the last three months. Time for some payback.
It will also be fun to see what the NRA and GOA do. Where’s my popcorn?
The ideal system for government and criminal alike is when both can freely extort the population for their own purposes.The politicians seek political power, the criminal seeks $$$. When both win, the citizen loses
They have the kinda of country they deserve. If the people of Mexico want better then they should fight for it.
You can say the same thing about Rhode Island.
Agreed. But they have given up hope, and decided to walk the border, take up residence here, and vote for gun control.
The war on drugs is a total waste of time and money. You can never stop it. The more they try to squeeze on this issue, the more profitable it becomes to the traffickers. They should just appeal any ridiculous laws that are against it and let free people be free. Those that want to destroy themselves can go ahead and do it, and the rest of us can happily be rid of them.
Regardless, the best way to combat drug use is “education.” Parents need to talk to their children, educate their children, teach their children moral virtues, honor, respect, etc. A spanking may be necessary – however currently that is almost banned.
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/532901_10101390073812989_1763505871_n.jpg
The Gov. is a standup guy who doesn’t take any s**t from anyone. He was elected to curb the spendthrifts who have overspent this State and he is doing a great job. He is a humble man who says what he means and means what he says. If anyone proposes to bring jobs to this State, he will do everything in his power to slap the naysayers into line and make it happen. Real Mainers still live here and want our children to remain here. He enjoys the support of the Maine people Who want our State to remain free and sane.The exodus of our youth in search of jobs must come to an end. This is just one of the reasons the Gov. has made the invitation. I just hope that the companies can see clear to take Gov. LePage up on his offer.
Maine has many suitable locations throughout the State which would make excellent location choices. We also have many talented young people who are extremely interested in these companies. Some have become engineers and are looking into weapons engineering as a lifelong pursuit. Should any company company decide to come here, they will find that it is an excellent place to raise a family. The hunting and fishing is great. The Machias River Expedition (canoe) is one of the finest in the world. Our ports are top notch and would handily lend themselves to export worldwide. We do not seem to have any crazies on our State and local police forces. The Sheriffs depts. are made up of people we went to school with who were also born here. They are our neighbors and we know where they live. At least in the rural areas. City and town councils are local citizens who generally work for little or no compensation in order to keep our local taxes to a minimum and services functioning at an acceptable of performance.
Our local fire Departments adapt themselves to the requirements placed upon them and are almost all fully volunteer throughout the State. There are very few paid departments. They are among the best trained wild-lands firefighters in the world today and are sent all over North America and Canada during the fire season. Our Hazardous Materials units are established by MEMA and are controlled by a State, County, local personnel. Many with college degrees in Fire Sciences, Engineering, Chemistry, etc. The concept in combined services dispatch and management was developed in Downeast Maine in the 1970’s and spread throughout the country in the interim. This is truly the place to be for a new or existing company who wants to share in the Maine experience. We are spread out and costs are higher than we would like but we feel the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. We hope the companies at least take the time to consider us.
ps. The last deer I shot was at 80 yds, out the bedroom window. It was only 185 lbs dressed out. Not the biggest one around but not bad. One shot with my Colt AR-15 60gr Hornady hand-load. I switched to the AR because my BAR 30-06 is hard on the arthritis.
Yep thats stupid no question
What if it was a white guy in a hoodie? Is it okay to shoot at his feet? It’s a compromise, right?
congrats WV. Hope other states look at these bills and put them on their books.
I’m related to the Swineharts. Had no idea some of them made guns. Thanks ALOGC!
I have a better idea: Why don’t we take 911 privileges away from bedwetters?
There were lots and lots of guns in the Wild West, yet except for Indian attacks, it wasn’t all that wild.
And don’t be taken in by the BS that towns were gun-free like Tombstone was supposed to be. Strangers and cowboys drifting into town, and other enemies or potential enemies of the town authorities, were often required to check their firearms. The rule did not apply to town residents or to friends of the authorities, who could keep theirs. Just like modern-day New York City or Boston.
Good going WV, common sense laws that wouldn’t quite make the grade in a facist state, Randy
But, may the Lord save your soul if you dare suggest the antis are hypersensitive to anything that even resembles a , (dare I type the word?) GUN. There, I did it and I’m glad!
Is it my old peeps or does the 50 have a gun in each hand?
BULLSHIT !!!!
No Compromise !!!
Also Gura is not a big fan of AK’s and AR’s. He is not in favor of standard 30 rd mags.
Gura is purely pushing the self defense from thugs… not govt tyranny.
SAF is going to weaken the NRA No Compromise Position.
I’ve heard that 60% of the cartel money comes from marijuana. Seems like a pretty simple solution to me. Legalize pot. Slash their funding. That’s a lot of bribe money gone overnight. Meanwhile BO keeps talking about needing more “revenues” so you kill two birds with one stone.
Funny, northerners love to make fun of West Virginia as “backwards.” And yet, here we have the government of West Virginia showing it has greater trust and faith in its citizens than NY, CT, MD, MA, RI (and so on) do.
Bravo WVA.
I bought one a month ago and I really like it. I am very used to the longer trigger pull and if you don’t like it then try the KelTek P11 now that is so long it is scary to me. I then bought a Sig Sauer P250 Sub compact and the trigger was a lot better but for me the gun was hard to concela and loaded was just heavier than I prefered the Nano and I really like the gun. The trigger pull is a little long but I feel it is smooth. the weight is lighter and it has none of the safteys many guns have. Mine came with a 6 and a 8 round mags and the 8 round has the extra finger groove so it is comfy. I carry it well hid under my shirt in a DeSantis holster.I have never had a FTF or FT problem unlike my Sig I had to send back to make it work. I love Berettas and was so hopefull this gun would work as good as it does. Cool light weight carry gun that does what it is supposed to do.
How the fVck exactly does a faceless hoodie target “resemble” Trayvon Martin? WTF is wrong with people and their overly sensitive political correctness these days? Really? Give me a fvucking break…
skittles
Modern America: everything has to be so sanitized and sterilized that there is nothing left of any substance to anything.
It pains me that so many of my fellow Mexicans are slaughtered every day while our neglectful government sits back. And all because some people want to get high. It’s funny, they don’t realize the repercussions of consuming drugs. Aside from the health ones. Obama should just legalize, regulate and tax drugs. The US is the biggest market for the cartels. Without it, their funding would be thrashed.
Remington is DEAD TO ME. Their weapons and their crappy UMC ammo can stay in NY as far as I’m concerned.
If those, very mild, drugs scare you, you should see my list of scrips. And yet, to meet me I’m a regular guy with his shit together. I’m really excited about this focus on psychiatric medication, though. In addition to the overwhelming social stigma due to being medicated for a _medical_ condition, a little second-class citizenship and fear of me, the perfectly normal boogeyman, will be just fantastic.
I’m sure everyone feels much safer.
Carry two.
So, I’m assuming that the only semi-auto pistols legal to buy in NY now are 1911s with 7 round mags, and a few single stack CC pistols.
It’s sad that the day some sicko shoots people with only 7 rounds loaded in his magazines, that politicians will simply try to reduce the number more to “save lives”.
Reducing magazine size is the biggest feel-good pile of crap they can attempt with gun control.
Instead of carrying 7, 10 round mags… now you should carry 20, 7 round mags.
If it’s punishable by 1-3 years wouldn’t that be a felony not a misdemeanor?
Please check question 11C on a 4473…
“Have you ever been convicted in any court of a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could have imprisoned you for more than one year, even if you received a shorter sentence including probation?”
I think most homeowners won’t comply. To some, having someone/prep come into your home and attempt to kill or rape your family is a lot worse than a prison sentence for standing up for your home and family. Here in Ohio we call these guys – men.
If you haven’t done so do yourself a huge favor and shoot blackpowder at least once. I’ve done so on a couple of occasions and it is an experience worthy of more adjectives than I can come up with. The hang-time between the hammer fall and the shot on a rifle is a hoot to experience and shoving Crisco into five cylinders of a revolver is just plain weird.
Lol the video has been deleted, YOU KILLED IT!!!
Stokeslawyer’s advise is one of the dumbest comments ever wriiten. Do not do it.
I think by this point, even the gun grabbers would be scratching their heads in confusion.
Kopel brought me back to the side of sanity. I love Gottlieb, but I think he’s blinded by the fact that his team helped draft this thing. No more gun control regulations. None.
Stories out of the bombing of our Marine barracks in Lebanon included terrorists walking past after the explosion, lifting rifles out of their tunics, shooting at the wounded and those trying to help.
Other scenarios involve things as simple as fire alarms to evacuate buildings and get lots of vulnerable targets out in the open.
Situational awareness is everything, and these cops did it right. If you’re a CCW holder, you want to be very aware, and not do anything unnecessary to make the cops think you’re part of the problem.
I wonder if the song “You drop the bomb on me, baby” by the Gap Band was playing when this happen?
I read earlier MSNBC was asking people to not jump to conclusions and blame Islamic terrorist, but in the same breath wondered if right wing anti-gov groups had something to do with it. People may think I am heartless but it’s people like this that have made me not care what happens anymore. Not only do I not care about what happens but when it does I am glad it happens in their backyard.
D. B. Cooper.