“The Lake County Sheriff’s Office said a number of vehicle break ins occurred around 4 a.m. Sunday on Northland Road near Mount Dora (Florida),” wesh.com reports. “In one case, vehicle owner Scott Pelkey, 46, grabbed a ball bat and confronted the three suspects.” Hang on a second . . .
For one thing, nothing good happens after 2am. Not the best time to be out and about. That said, it’s a free country, right?
For another, confronting a criminal — never mind three of them — may not be the best option when witnessing a crime. Confront not lest ye be confronted. That said, good people do.
And lastly, if you’re going to confront a criminal, it’s best to be armed with the best possible tool for the job, lest that confrontation turn violent. Despite what dailykos.com says, that tool is not a baseball bat. It’s a gun.
The suspects took the bat from Pelkey, and attacked him with it.
The LCSO said Pelkey was found lying on the street, and was flown to ORMC with severe injuries, including broken bones in his arm, hand, and face. He was in stable condition.
Deputies caught the suspects and questioned them.
Two 16-year-old boys and 14-year-old girl are charged with attempted murder, armed burglary, and grand theft.
Nothing you didn’t know, I suspect, but you have been warned. Again. Still.
Confronting 3 criminal youts with a baseball bat…all I got. Why didn’t he call the po-leece? BTW they just arrested another 14 year punk for the YouTube gang rape in Chiraq…shoot to kill. Savage young animals are on the loose.
Crime is the new black entitlement.
People that stupid simply defy belief. Makes me think they are not that stupid, their supposed “beliefs” are carefully concocted to gain the holder more money and power, no one could possibly really believe that crap. As for me, if someone calls out “Good morning”, or “Have a nice day!”, my reaction is going to be precisely the same regardless of the person’s age, sex, color, whatever. Likewise, if someone violently attacks me, I am not checking ID for age or racial entitlements, all are treated the same. So far (70 years), that has resulted in me calling out to thousands of people to have a nice day themselves, with a smile and a wave, and nothing else. Hope my luck holds, and I suspect it will.
Kinda reminds me of that scene in “patriots day” when the guy throws a baseball bat to the cop in the middle of a gun fight and yells “give em hell!” Before running in to his house to take cover from the gun fire. Enough with the stupid bats! The kids are getting charged with attempted murder because hitting someone with a bat is a use of deadly force! Using a gun is using deadly force! If they are the same, then use the one that is better (spoiler: a gun is better).
Odds are that if someone comes at you with a baseball bat there’s a 99% chance he’s just trying to scare you and has no intention of actually using it. Inversely, 99% of people will flee when confronted with a man with a baseball bat. But if you are not prepared to use that bat with extreme violence and you threaten one of the 1% who won’t flee, he is going to take that bat away from you and beat you, probably to death, with it.
This is why a fi rearm is so much superior to a baseball bat. If you confront someone with a g un, it is immediately understood that you are challenging him to a fight to the death and that you already have the upper hand in that fight. And even if you are the frightened one, it doesn’t take an extreme amount of exertion to wield that weapon with deadly effect. So physical and psychological dominance means just about jack squat in that fight. This is universally understood and respected, much like if you slap a wasp nest with your hand you’re going to be stung or if you kick a rattlesnake you’re going to get a venomous bite. It doesn’t matter which animal is superior in strength.
The same argument can be made whether your defensive weapon of choice is a bat or a gun. If you aren’t willing to use is on your assailant, he will relieve you of it and use it on you. Therefore, never bluff.
There is a huge difference, even if you’re bluffing. First, if you bluff with a baseball bat, Mr. Alphamale Homeinvader takes little chance in calling you on your bluff. But if you bluff with a fir earm there will usually be enough time to realize your error and realign your intentions with your newfound reality. And the amount of physical exertion required to beat someone to death with a baseball bat is many, many times that of the exertion it takes to squeeze a trig ger. You can be near frozen with fear and still pull that trig ger, but someone in that condition is a goner if he’s holding a baseball bat. Even with a kitchen knife, your assailant takes a significant chance of personal injury if he attempts to disarm you, but bat, golf club etc., unless you are prepared to act with extreme violence you pose little threat to your enemy. If you bluff, you’d better sell it.
Unless you’re Joe DiMaggio, leave the bat for baseball players. Three miscreants? Sam Colt made us equal.
A baseball bat can be a fearsome striking and thrusting weapon in a one-on-one fight. Do not ask me how I know this. But one against three? No chance.
To re-phrase Theodore Roosevelt, speak softly and carry a big gun.
He got turned into a popsicle with his own bat a la the Warriors. I wonder if he was a baseball furies member?
Ugh. If a bat is all you can do, maybe it’s better than nothing- maybe- but only because it might scare the bad guy(s) off. And honestly, yelling that you’re calling the police might do a better job of that.
Actually going at more than one bad guy with a blunt object as a weapon is just tombstone bravery.
Maybe I’m just in a cynical mood tonight, but it strikes me that if you’re dumb enough to confront three people with a bat that you aren’t prepared to use ,both in the mindset and capability/training departments then a gun probably isn’t a good idea for you to have because you’re at LEAST half retarded.
A bat ain’t a standoff weapon, if you’re gonna introduce yourself into a criminal confrontation while armed with a bat you make your entrance by bashing the everliving fuck out of someone as your opening salvo. Knee, head, back, chest or whatever but you hit someone with it and hit them HARD.
Pretty much this. It’s like what has been said about a bayonet: it takes a different mindset to use it effectively. The level of aggression that makes a bat a viable weapon isn’t common and is hard to summon up for/in the average person. For all the talk about whether or not one has the mettle to shoot someone when need arises, bashing them effectively likely requires a lot more of whatever that mettle is in most circumstances.
Just one more example that guns, if had, are the great equalizer. They are what make the 60 year old woman greater or equal in strength to the couple of thugs who are unarmed, if properly trained: https://mattsamerica.wordpress.com/2016/09/04/why-progressives-should-love-the-2nd-amendment/
I recall a certain training course I took long ago with a LEO instructor regarding the use of a police baton. I was learning to be a (an unarmed) security guard at the time.
Instructor: Never strike at the torso unless you are striking from behind and then aim for the ribs. Never strike at the head. Upper body strikes are too easily deflected by the arms and will often result in you losing your weapon. Strikes to the head can be effective, if they get through the guard, but they can also be fatal which may present different problems.
The best possible defensive strikes with a baton (or a bat) are to the most sensitive and most difficult to protect areas of the body – anything at or below the knee. Any solid strike landed on the kneecap or shin will at least temporarily and probably significantly put the perp our of the fight. You can then make an arrest or beat feet, whichever is most appropriate in the situation.
Bottom line; strikes to the lower legs are unexpected and extremely difficult to deflect. A person who takes a solid strike against his shin suddenly has more important things on his mind than continuing to attack you.
In terms of using a baton I’d say your instruction was spot-on. However, a bat is a bit different from a baton because the bat has a fair amount of mass which the baton does not. The baton, in the modern sense of a telescoping baton or nightstick, was pretty much designed in an attempt to be “less than lethal” and be a compliance weapon. A bat isn’t really designed as a weapon but as one it’s more similar to a knobkerry or a mace than it is a baton and as such is more suited to really messing someone up and/or killing them.
Unless the person you swing a bat at is a body builder their ability to defend their head with their arms is rather limited in comparison to what they can stop in terms of a baton strike. Kenpo Karate teaches a few different blocks against a bat or similar weapon but they all make assumptions about how the bat is being swung to use an angle to try to deflect the shot from making contact at a 90 degree angle (or anything close to it). Really, unless you get the block just right and the attacker attacks the way the defense is designed for, you’re gonna get your arm smashed up pretty good and that limb is gonna be out of the fight. Even if you do get it just right, you’re effectively making a sacrifice because the bat is going to do some significant damage. That’s just the nature of a bat or similar object as a weapon. It’s very effective at delivering significant blunt force.
All in all though, swinging for the head with either, you better be sure you’re justified in using lethal force and willing to do so because that’s a shot that can easily kill someone.
Worst thing you can do against a bat attack is to try and step away. Bats and other similar heavy bludgeons rely on reach and momentum, and both are neutralized by stepping into the attack.
It depends on the distance the other person starts swinging at and your own personal skill level at martial arts/how you were trained.
If you can accurately judge the “killer line” for both of you and you’re very near to theirs in terms of the arc of the bat(in this case) then stepping out and back in as the swing overextends them is extremely effective in hand to hand or against impact weapons. It can be very effective for dealing with a blade too but that’s another discussion entirely and depends heavily on the type of blade.
The trick is judging this right and that takes A LOT of practice. People who do this well are very difficult to put your hands on or hit with an object and when they step in they do a hell of a lot of damage because you’re no longer in a position to defend yourself against what they throw at you, either that or they drop you with a throw that may well end your life.
I’m not saying it is right, but if you are the one that initiates the confrontation and you shoot the unarmed individuals , there is a good chance that you will spend many years behind bars.
It depends on the specifics. If you witness three people smashing car windows, there is nothing legally improper about confronting them when the confrontation is limited to telling them to stop vandalizing and telling them to stay in place until police come to arrest them for vandalism. (Note that telling someone to stay in place could be risky if there is no compelling evidence that the vandals actually committed the crime: they could deny smashing windows and turn-around and accuse you of illegally arresting them.)
Keep in mind that three people vandalizing property does not legally justify use of deadly force. You would only be justified to use deadly force against the three vandals if a reasonable person (e.g. a jury of your peers) would believe that you were facing an imminent threat of death or grievous bodily harm from those three vandals. A verbal confrontation/stand-off does not qualify. What would likely qualify is if the three vandals had one or more weapons (likely since they need something to smash car windows) and they announced their intention to attack you.
In that scenario (where the three vandals have smashing objects and announce their intention to attack you), I would argue that you did not instigate anything. Rather, the three vandals instigated the entire event when they started smashing car windows … and the three vandals then escalated when they announced their intention to attack you.
Note: I am not a lawyer and the above is not legal advice.
Also note: The mischief at night law in Texas was made for this situation. Catch someone jacking your stuff at night and you can use deadly force to prevent it.
Why just at night? And when does “night” start or end for this purpose? Who decides that? What difference does it make whether it is night or day?
Doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
This is actually for Mama Liberty. In Texas, night is defined as one half hour after sunset, until one half hour before sunrise. Texas has many hold over laws from times long ago. The prevailing theory is it is harder to identify a criminal at night, and stop them from disrupting your livelihood. That is the Criminal Mischief part comes into play. The other side to that is the part that gets left out of conversation. That part says that a reasonable person (jury of your so called peers) would find your actions to be reasonable and necessary. At least that’s how they explained it to us in the Police Academy.
Thanks, jlottmc. I appreciate the information. Texas certainly seems to have some strange laws, but that’s not the worst one I’ve heard of. 🙂
During a criminal justice class, we had a police detective talk to us about justifiable homicide. He brought up how (at least in our area) a female can employ deadly force (aka a firearm) against an unarmed male assailant due to the perceived disparity in physically violent capability between them. A male would likely not get off in the same circumstances.
However, he brought up that multiple assailants is a completely different matter. He specifically mentioned that being assaulted by 3 or more assailants is absolutely a case in which deadly force is justified. He specifically stated that a physical assault by 3 or more assailants would leave any victim (regardless of age or gender) in fear for their life. Hence, this should have been a defensive gun use.
Except that some moron may decide that what was described was him assaulting those poor children.
I believe a person who owns a baseball bat is more likely to be injured by the bat, than someone who doesn’t have a baseball bat.
The main problem with a baseball bat, especially a wood baseball bat, is that they are heavy and it takes a fair amount of strength and time to build up enough speed to deliver a debilitating blow.
When facing three young and fast attackers in melee combat, speed is far more critical than massive force. Even if you can get one good blow with the bat on one attacker, the other two attackers will be on you before you can wind up again.
A somewhat lighter and much thinner bludgeon would be far more effective for self-defense against multiple attackers. Of course a revolver or semi-auto pistol is is superior to any bludgeon.
Most of us have cell phones that can also take a picture. Even in low light, these pictures can be worked with to get great detail. Shoot a couple of pix of the crime before you say anything to them, then call po po. If you have someone else there , make sure they know about the pix. Then go out and shoot them or chase them off.
Around here, many people have have gotten the doorbell cam. It has caught many crimes, like package stealing. The police love to get these photos, but when you download the photos to our area website for neighborhood protection, the criminals get reconized and found.
Yeah, right. 3 men (or probably even one) are attacking me, a 70 year old disabled lady, and I’m supposed to just take pictures? I don’t think so.
If at all possible, they’ll receive the kinetic energy of several 9mm projectiles from the gun I am carrying right now on my hip. I sometimes use a tall walking stick, but I have trained myself to drop it if I need to draw the gun because I’m not strong enough to use it in a fight, and it could very easily be taken away from me if the aggressors got close enough.
And don’t worry about me not being willing to use the gun. I don’t carry it for decoration.
I may take pictures later…
At the beach in my native Chicago, late 1960s, a father and son were playing baseball, with bat and ball. Street creeps took the bat and bludgeoned both father and son to death with it.
Carry your gun. All the time.
This whole issue was ashame and an awakening call for many. I am a friend and neighbor of the victim and it’s absolutely insaine to say the least of what these kids did to a wonderful caring man.
Yes, Wlliam should’ve had a gun but you have to know him and gis family to understand. He is absolutely a nonviolent person and he would never hurt a fly. It would have actually probably of done more damage to him and his family if he did have a gun and had to use it on children vs the physical and mental scars he currently has.
He has suffered numerous broken bones, complete rebuild of his arm, bat bruises up and down his body, broken hand and so much more. And what makes it worse as his wife watched the children attempt to run from the scene she told the she was calling the police in which their response was “You better he’s gonna need it”.
I has his friend have created a fundraiser page in GoFundMe.com or you can get it directly from my FaceBook page under Randy Belise, as well ad I’ll attach the link at the end of this message. Please, this family needs help with the costs of living exspenses at this point abd ongoing due to he has been a local and well respected small business owner in our community for over 20 yrs., and this time out of work will surely disrupt the families finaces. Please if you can take the time and eithet dobate or pass along or share the link to his fund page it’s greatly appreciated.
Thank you all for the comments and concern.
These children? Excuse me? You lost me there. The thugs that attacked were NOT “children.” By any means. Thugs and monsters, period.
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