When the Capitol Hill riot — or the “insurrection” as the mainstream media like to refer to it — took place on January 6th, conservatives questioned why Ashli Babbitt was shot and killed. Babbitt was a veteran who was unarmed and was shot to death by Capitol Police Lt. Michael Byrd.
Up until now, I have given the unidentified officer the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he thought she had a gun. Maybe he thought she had a knife or another type of weapon. But in an interview with NBC last week, officer Byrd explained his thought process. And none of his explanation talked about Babbitt wielding a firearm, baseball bat, or any other item that could be construed as a weapon.
As POLITICO noted:
“I know that day I saved countless lives,” Byrd told the network. “I know members of Congress, as well as my fellow officers and staff, were in jeopardy and in serious danger. And that’s my job.”
The officer’s identity had been unknown until Thursday, even after he was internally cleared of wrongdoing. The Capitol Police had declined to identify Byrd, who is Black and went into hiding for months because of death threats and racist threats against him and his family.
Byrd, a 28-year veteran of the force, described how he yelled at rioters to tell them to stop before they entered the Speaker’s Lobby outside the House chamber. Officers had barricaded the doors with furniture and told rioters not to enter, but some smashed glass in the doors and tried to climb through. Babbitt was shot as she tried to climb through the barricaded door.
As Byrd saw it, he was part of the last line of defense between members of Congress and rioters who could harm them.
“If they get through that door, they’re into the House chamber and upon the members of Congress,” he told NBC. Babbitt had been “posing a threat to the United States House of Representatives,“ he said. He hoped his commands to stop would have been heeded, but “unfortunately they were not.“
Law professor Jonathan Turley noted something important about Byrd’s remarks in a recent opinion piece for The Hill:
Of all of the lines from Byrd, this one stands out: “I could not fully see her hands or what was in the backpack or what the intentions are.” So, Byrd admitted he did not see a weapon or an immediate threat from Babbitt beyond her trying to enter through the window. Nevertheless, Byrd boasted, “I know that day I saved countless lives.” He ignored that Babbitt was the one person killed during the riot. (Two protesters died of natural causes and a third from an amphetamine overdose; one police officer died the next day from natural causes, and four officers have committed suicide since then.) No other officers facing similar threats shot anyone in any other part of the Capitol, even those who were attacked by rioters armed with clubs or other objects.
This shooting was absolutely unjustified under any rules of the use of force by law enforcement officers. Was Babbitt breaking the law? Yes. She was clearly trespassing. That infraction carries a $1,000 fine, not a death sentence.
What took place in this situation is a textbook example of what not to do in multiple ways.
- Officers are taught to eliminate a threat once one is detected. Eliminate means kill if necessary. But, in this case, officer Byrd assumed Babbitt was a threat. He didn’t see a weapon. She wasn’t making any threats. She was breaking through a barrier. That’s it. Should the cops have been on guard? Absolutely. Should the officer have assumed she would hurt or kill someone if she came through the barrier? Absolutely not. If that was the case, not a single person who broke into the Capitol would have made it out alive and almost any reason would be considered a justifiable use of deadly force.
- Babbitt was the only person to die on January 6th, indicating officer Byrd made a decision based on fear and emotion, not logic and training. This is a prime indicator that Byrd went rogue in his decision to open fire. If his decision to pull the trigger was based on training, other officers would have had the same response.
- Following the shooting, the Capitol Police engaged in politics when this shouldn’t have been political. The agency was more focused on covering up Officer Byrd’s wrongdoing than they were on determining and reporting what happened. They had absolutely no desire for a full investigation. Imagine how different the reaction of the police and media would have been to a cop shooting an unarmed protester on the street in, say, Portland or New York.
Byrd panicked and pulled the trigger. He shot and killed a woman who presented no clear threat to him or anyone else in the Capitol that day. And the Department of Justice turning a blind eye to clear misconduct on Byrd’s part does nothing to resolving the question of why she was shot and killed.
As Turley wrote . . .
The DOJ report did not read like any post-shooting review I have read as a criminal defense attorney or law professor. The DOJ statement notably does not say that the shooting was clearly justified. Instead, it stressed that “prosecutors would have to prove not only that the officer used force that was constitutionally unreasonable, but that the officer did so ‘willfully.’” It seemed simply to shrug and say that the DOJ did not believe it could prove “a bad purpose to disregard the law” and that “evidence that an officer acted out of fear, mistake, panic, misperception, negligence, or even poor judgment cannot establish the high level of intent.”
Officer Byrd no longer has the benefit of the doubt. His rehearsed justifications recited before friendly media do nothing to explain why an unarmed woman was killed. The Babbitt family has threatened a wrongful death lawsuit. That may be the only way now for anyone to be held to account.
Took this long to conjure up their story. Betting Byrd panicked with finger on trigger resulting in an AD into Babbitt. Did anyone check his BVDs for residue evidence????
More details on the theft of 2020. All of those ballots could have been tossed….Just kidding losers. We own you.
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/matt-margolis/2021/08/30/a-stunning-number-of-absentee-ballots-in-dekalb-county-georgia-violated-chain-of-custody-rules-n1474202
You own biden. Losers is too kind a word for you folks.
Democrats bragging about owning people. About what I expect. You people are the scum of the Earth and always have been.
Minor owns a bicycle and not much else.
Did mommy get you new underwear Minor?
Your parents work hard at Walmart.
They had one mentally ill child.
That’s you. Take your meds.
Demos LOVE to own people. Some years back, Republicans won a shooting war to end that Democrat practice. Now they want to own people all over again!
Fake Miner, you really should seek more credible sources than the pajama media you seem so fond of. The article your cite was written by an individual who has no real education in political science or legal issues:
“Matt Margolis is a bestselling author, graphic designer, former architect, and a consumer of books and coffee.“
A graphic designer and failed architect?
Of course, you’re the guy who wants to use a horse wormer to cure Covid so we really shouldn’t expect much
If he is a fake he’s good enough to pass. But then, we don’t expect much from the fascist left.
Jaybird, he’s not a member of the leftists, he’s one of yours.
And he spends so much time thinking about me, he even posts when I haven’t, that’s a level above Geoff’s troll.
Feel free to wallow in the brilliance that is Fake Miner, a legend in his own mind.
Nonsense is nonsense whether it comes from real or fake. Makes them the same.
Wow, miner. Considering what you got in your dementia president, I wouldn’t call that a win. In fact, I would be embarrassed. But to each their own I guess.
Claims of “ownership” fit the eternal darkness of the racist mind of the democrat.
Did the lobotomy clear up all your daddy issues? Did it solve your need to wear depends? Are you still confined in a rubber room? Most importantly do you still teach political science classes at Harvard?
Miner is employed by Soros to run crooked elections. He owes Soros for spring him from St Elizabeth’s where he was confined for strangling puppies.
It’s called “black privilege.”
It’s Democrat privilege. They despise blacks (as well as any other minority) that have opposing views.
Dude,
“It’s Democrat privilege.”
Nailed it!
I have stated the simple underlying Progressive mentality a few other times recently on this site. In the Progressive mind, whether actions are “right” or “wrong” depends on the political/tribal affiliation of the actor and recipient rather than concrete, impartial, and timeless standards of right and wrong.
Since the actor (Capitol policeman) was standing up for Progressives and the recipient (Ashli Babbitt) was standing up for Conservatives, whatever the policeman did was “right” and whatever the Babbitt did was “wrong”. (Thus, since Babbitt was “wrong”, she deserved whatever came her way from a Progressive supporter.)
“the recipient (Ashli Babbitt) was standing up for Conservatives“
No, the insurrectionist was climbing through a smashed door window, entering a restricted area and failing to comply with the direct commands of a law enforcement officer charged with protecting the area.
She was a member of a violent mob attacking the United States Capitol during a joint session of Congress, deliberating or presidential election under the mandate of the United States Constitution.
There are multiple video sources available clearly showing her violent assault on the seat of American democracy.
You can’t have it both ways, saying Philandro Castile or Tamir Rice was shot to death because they failed to comply with the directives of a police officer and yet calling Ashley Babbitt a murder victim when she was shot for failing to comply with the directives of a police officer.
So, Castile, Rice and Floyd were justified because they failed to comply? That’s what you’re saying. According to your logic BLM has no reason to exist.
No, in each of the aforementioned cases the individuals were presenting no threat and committing no crimes when the interaction with the law-enforcement officer occurred.
Tamir Rice was on the playground with no weapon in his hand, committing no crime.
Philandro Castile was sitting in his car, attempting to comply with the officer and committing no crime.
George Floyd had been accused of passing a counterfeit $10 bill, which has never been seen or entered into evidence, but committed no crime in the presence of any police officer.
This is in contrast to Ashli Babbitt, the video clearly shows she was in the midst of forcing entry into a federally restricted area, against the shouted commands of multiple law-enforcement officers ordering her to cease and desist from her violent entry.
Jaybird, I’m surprise by your inability to grasp the totality of the situation at hand, I hope my clear and concise explanation helps you understand the situation a bit more fully.
Yes. I understand your double standards completely. You fascists roll like that.
Blacks can do whatever they wish since laws do not apply to them unless they are conservatives, in which case they are actually white supremacists and may be shot down like dogs according to Hitler Jugend like Miner.
She fucked around.
She found out.
I’ve watched the video.
Clean shoot.
Clean shoot? If the races were reversed the capitol would have been burned down Jan 7th with the help of Congress.
You don’t even have to reverse the races. Change Ashli to a Democrat protesting Trump winning the election. We would have a very different story. The dems need the officer vindicated to help push the insurrection narrative.
You can flip the script just by making it a BLM protest.
The D legion infested the Capitol during the Kavanaugh riots/hearings, including detaining Jeff Flake (Flake-AZ) in an elevator for an hour or so. Where was Byrd then? Or any concern or fear?
Was the Ahmaud Arbery shooting in Georgia, a clean one by two white men??? Arbery was unarmed just like ashil babbitt.
Not defending busybeef’s dumb-ass comment, but the Arbery shooting was far, *far* more justified because Arbery was attacking the person with the gun at the time he was shot. Ashli was only protesting.
Your fucking kidding right?
If not then you’re an idiot
“Arbery was attacking the person with the gun at the time he was shot”
No, the Georgia racists aggressively initiated the confrontation, even using a vehicle to assault Arbery before finally shooting an unarmed man.
Typical white supremacist thought process, unfortunately for them the jurisprudence system does not allow people to initiate an aggressive confrontation and then claim ‘self-defense!’.
Umm… Arbery was on the street, running away.
Being unarmed is not, has never been, the beginning and end of use-of-force analysis.
Well, that’s plainly untrue. Arbery chased the defenders down and was in fact fighting with one for his gun when he was shot. You were so confidently incorrect it made me look at the video again though.
Running away from an empty building. And being empty handed. I would say, as I have said before. Thoses two white men have some splainin to do.
Chased the defenders in a pickup truck down while on foot? Now there’s a trick. Hint, when you overtake someone running away so that you’re now in front of them, that doesn’t change the fact they’re running away.
Let’s recall that the video being interpreted here was taken by an accomplice of the shooter’s, who was driving another pickup, involved in pursuing Arbery and chasing him into the kill zone. Then you can easily see that he was attempting to avoid a man pursuing him with a shotgun, and when that failed attempted to engage that individual who had instigated the entire confrontation, and was shot to death in the attempt. I would have 1000% more confidence in the outcome if the facts and films were interpreted by a mixed-race jury within a court of law, rather than a bunch of good ol’ boys.
But Ashli was 5′-2″ and 110 pounds. I’m sure facing her would be very intimidating. /s
I wouldn’t have stood a chance against a 5’2″ 110-lbs woman! She could have killed me! Thank god for Lt Byrd! He saved my life!!! And I think I speak for everybody in Congress when I say this….. Except for Margeary Taylor Green…. she’s terrifying!
“But Ashli was 5′-2″ and 110 pounds. I’m sure facing her would be very intimidating. /s“
Dude, perhaps you missed the videos from January 6, which clearly show thousands of individuals assaulting the United States Capitol during a joint session of Congress.
You seem to be under the mistaken impression that only Babbitt was assaulting the restricted area and failing to comply with the directives of the police officers on the scene charged with protecting the individuals in a restricted area.
I imagine you find it particularly galling that it was principally 2 heroic black police officers, Byrd and Goodman, who thwarted the white insurrectionists’ attack upon the democratic process of the United States government.
miner. ‘Failing to comply’. There you go again. Just took away the reason for BLM. Using your logic you could even argue that Arbery was killed for not complying. So it was on him.
I always knew you were a racist.
“Using your logic you could even argue that Arbery was killed for not complying”
Nice attempt at a false equivalence, but the individuals who attacked Arbery were not police officers so there’s no issue of noncompliance with the directive of an LEO.
Arbery had no duty to comply with any orders by the 3 racists who attacked him.
Furthermore, unlike Ashli Babbitt, Arbery was not actually in the act of committing a federal crime.
But I am comforted by the knowledge that not only will Arbery’s attackers face lengthy prison sentences, hundreds of the insurrectionists will also spend some time at the Graybar hotel, hooray for American justice!
Thank you Miner49er! You are truly an American Patriot! Your government needs police officers who will shoot uppity citizens on sight without any thought, consideration, or legal justification. It also needs citizens, such as yourself, who simply won’t turn a blind eye but, rather, advocate for the killing of unarmed American citizens on American soil by armed government officers. The U.S. Congress has voted (406-21) to award Lt. Byrd the Congressional Gold Medal for heroicly shooting an unarmed woman to death. That job offer for Director of the Ministry of Love still stands BTW. I’m sorry I’ve been gone all these months from the TTAG forum but it wasn’t safe for me and Fang Fang to come back to America until we stole the election.
Chris,
Mr. Arbery was murdered by a couple of racist inbred fucking assholes. They both deserve the death penalty.
“Arbery was unarmed just like ashil babbitt“
Arbery was not committing a violent assault upon the seat of American government during a joint session of Congress deliberating our presidential election under the rules of the United States Constitution.
When Arbery was shot he was in a public thoroughfare, attempting to go about his business when he was accosted by a group of armed white supremacists intent upon causing him grievous bodily injury.
Babbitt ignored repeated directions of multiple law-enforcement officers, ordering her to cease her violent attack upon the restricted area. She ignored those orders and effected entry into the restricted area, whereupon law-enforcement officers employed lethal force to stop the breach as was there S0P.
Failure to comply. Isn’t that what all the cops accused of murdering black folks say?
Why you so rayciss?
HAHAHHAHAHHA
There was no warning as the officer admitted. Lies are a hallmark of the true believer.
Arbery was a 20 something felon who resisted arrest and assaulted these people and went for their firearms. Why does an innocent man go up against an armed man like that? Could it be because of a long record of being arrested using the same MO.
SOB another black POS bites the dirt.
Agreed.
@Busybeef,
I’ve caught flak from others here for expressing my opinion on this issue, but I’m still not entirely convinced Officer Byrd was in the wrong. Babbitt was not only trespassing, but actively and aggressively vandalizing Capitol property and smashing her way through a barricaded(!!) doorway to gain access to an interior area of the Chambers. If someone were to be smashing their way into my house or car as I’m inside, I’d certainly perceive them as a threat.
The problem with this, though, is that the available video(s) seem to show other uniformed LEOs outside the door behind Babbitt, and not stopping her. So the argument can be made that they may have not perceived a threat from their point of view. But that’s not the same POV as Byrd’s from within.
Bottom line: The entire situation was unnecessary and messed up. Babbitt and those with her should not have been forcefully smashing their way inside. The (assumedly S.W.A.T. level) LEOs behind her should have acted to stop her. And Byrd arguably should have exercised increased self control to properly assess the true threat level before choosing to pull his trigger.
That’s my 2 cents from the comfort of my keyboard. I wasn’t there and have only been able to digest the videos and articles the Masters of the Interwebs have allowed to circulate.
Haz- try shooting and killing someone who is unarmed, yet trying to come in a window in your house in the majority of communities and states. See how well you come out of it…
While I find the idiots trying to storm the Capital reprehensible, I find the death of this unarmed participant insane. There need to be charges- a lawsuit will end in a worthless judgment.
Even here in loopy CA, we still can. If someone enters my home via forced entry and without my permission, the default expectation is that the person is a criminal invader who intends me harm, and I may defend my person and my home with deadly force. We have many stupid gun control laws on our books that have been passed by the Dems over the past 20 years that they’ve had a stranglehold in Sacramento, but this one was codified generations ago and has not changed.
Anyone who breaks a window and enters my home with me inside yelling at him to stop will be met with a JHP (or two). And since the law will be on my side, any D.A. would need to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that a person who forced his way into my home in direct defiance of the Penal Code did not intend me harm. But the perp won’t be talking, so…
Everyone is raising Ashli Babbitt to semi-sainthood, but the truth is that she was aggressively trespassing and in the very act of breaching a defensive barricade set into place by Capitol Police. I wish very much that she were still alive today, but since I first saw the video of her demise, I have not been surprised she was shot.
It’s an unfortunate thing.
Define “everyone” and “semi-sainthood.” All I’m seeing here is people acknowledging that she was an unarmed, petite woman committing a crime.
@Dude,
Everywhere I see her mentioned on the Internet (outside of TTAG)…her husband’s avoidance of acknowledging her criminal trespass as he rails against the CP is bothersome.
Man if someone is coming through my window they’re getting blasted on, and I’m staying out of the klink. What the hell are you talking about?
Man if someone is coming through my window they’re getting blasted on, and I’m staying out of the klink. What the hell are you talking about?
Exercised self control by:
-not knowing if she was armed
-knowing she was not a threat
-knowing other officers were not acting against her
-not warning her
-not using a lesser form of restraint
Tell us all. are you a Biden policy advisor?
It’s so easy to forcefully expound on what everyone *should* have done, when the conversation is in hindsight and half a year’s worth of investigation and fact gathering has been conducted, isn’t it?
I’m talking about the perception of the situation by the individual’s POV in the heat of the moment, not from your POV from the comfort of your keyboard after several months of forming your personal opinion on the matter.
Fuck you busy!
NO. Not a clean shoot. To be a clean shoot she would have had to at least have had a firearm on her person and reaching for or already have had it in her hands. If you don’t believe it , go shoot someone who doesn’t have a firearm on their person nor in their hand and see where you wind up at. What the racist SOB did was exactly what a CCW class will tell you NOT to do.
A violent mob is at your window trying to gain entry. One of them starts to climb through your window. You neutralize that person. You will not be prosecuted. I. Fact, you will probably be commended. So just stop.
“To be a clean shoot she would have had to at least have had a firearm on her person“
Really? So you don’t think an assault by an individual carrying a club, a knife, a ball bat, a broken bottle, a flag pole, a rock, etc. is a lethal threat?
Now you are denying reality to support your narrative of hidden racism.
How did you react to the cop killing the knife armed black girl in Ohio, miner?
Talk about hidden racism.
The black girl was a sad case of a mentally ill adolescent acting out because of poor parenting and lack of adult supervision.
Yes, I would’ve rather they effectively used a Taser or blown a hole in her calf or thigh (hopefully missing the femoral artery).
Any of those less than lethal options would’ve stopped the assault immediately.
But there’s no question that immediate intervention by the authorities was justified to prevent further injuries, as I’ve said before anyone committing a violent assault upon another human needs to be dealt with immediately.
I just think it is a shame that multiple, trained professional police officers felt they had no other option besides utilizing immediate death dealing lethal force upon the adolescent girl.
No such sympathy for Babbit. Shot dead and unarmed.
If it wasn’t for double standards you’d have none at all.
“No such sympathy for Babbit. Shot dead and unarmed“
Not correct, I do feel sorry for Ashli, having been mislead by the professional right wing propaganda machine.
Unfortunately, just like the young black girl you brought up above, the authorities were justified in acting quickly to neutralize the threat.
The difference is, the young black girl was the only individual on the scene acting out and committing an assault.
Mrs Babbitt was at the head of a violent mob who had already breached the restricted area of the United States Capitol and assaulted multiple police officers in their unlawful attempt and entry of a restricted area.
I’m not surprised you’re having difficulty ascertaining the difference in the situations, did you just have your daily dose of ivermectin? I understand it may have negative effects upon an individual‘s cognitive abilities…
As well as doing an excellent job of ridding your large intestine of nasty parasites.
Tell us about all those weapons she was carrying and how the “officer” admitted he saw none of these things. If a white cop did these things we all know what would happen, but we live in a very racist society.
And a very facist society as demonstrated by the Miner. Sieg Heil Gruppen Fuhrer.
Weren’t you the foreman on the OJ jury?
You just issued your own death warrant. Remember the conditions for someone to shot you down on some street:
-you represent no threat
-no warning need be made
-you need not make a threat nor carry a weapon
-you are not comiting a crime
You also demonstrate why Oregon needs to allow people who cannot read be allowed to graduate from High School. Thanks for such a brilliant, reasoned observation. When do you expect Biden to nominate you to SCOTUS?
–
Babbitt was murdered. The officer also stated that unarmed or armed his decision would be the same. Thank God that officers patrolling the streets of America do not have that attitude, the streets would run with blood.
Hey “officer”, quit playin the victim card! You’re not the victim here, maybe if you’d picked that day to leave your Glock in the shi**er, the young, unarmed “protested would still be able to face a court appearance!!
The officer’s explanation (as well as the AP’s photo caption) is beyond reprehensible. On what planet does a tiny unarmed female (with other cops behind her) present a threat to a large, supposedly well-trained male police officer with a gun already in his hand aimed at her with his finger on the trigger? This isn’t some unknown, barely-seen perp coming through a shattered window under cover of night with no time to think about it. At all.
His only defense, thin as it is, would be fear of the crowd ( which included other cops). The closest recent comparison would be Kyle Rittenhouse, an unapologetically white kid who’s life was actually in danger from an actually violent crowd who actually attacked him. Things have so far worked out very differently for him.
And four police suicides since the peaceful protest at the Capitol? What TF did those guys have on Hillary?
“Babbitt was murdered“
Yes, she was murdered by those who filled her head with their self-serving lies about ‘stolen elections’.
As Sidney Powell‘s own attorneys stated in open court, “no reasonable person would believe the claims she made regarding the “stolen election”.
Unfortunately, Ashli Babbitt believed those lies and acted upon the ‘delusion-for-profit’ propagated by the right wing conservatives.
So jaybird, have you sent your donations to trump’s legal defense fund? Could you share with us exactly how much of your hard earned money you have donated to the audit in Arizona or Wisconsin?
Not a penny. Don’t give to the NRA, either. With the dotard in chief you helped install all Americans are going to need every penny to survive the turmoil you guys brought on.
But that was the plan, wasn’t it? Fascism can only thrive among desperate people. So you willingly enabled the desperation.
“Not a penny”
So you are only paying lip service to the whole stop the steel nonsense?
No surprise there…
I’m sorry to hear that you are concerned about having the financial resources necessary in the coming days. I imagine you, like many on this list, are regretting the money they spent at the local ABS over the past several years.
I’m sure many of us on the list here would be happy to provide a small donation, could you provide your mailing address for our convenience, thanks!
You get a good work out jumping to conclusions.
Clearly Left wing vomit has taken hold in your pea brain. You demonstrate that daily.
Democrats hate justice, but they love political persecution and even execution. Watch how they defend this.
Contrast this with a repeat felon resisting arrest and dying a drug induced cardiac event while being restrained… cop goes to prison, family received a 27 million dollar gift from the City of Minneapolis. Months of “mostly peaceful ” protests and damages in the hundreds of millions are excused by the left. This is so messed up, little d will need to expend thousands of words to try and excuse.
This is what a white “male” ([email protected]) staff sergeant would say, when they start shooting unarmed civilians.
Also, “I was just following orders.”
Did she have her hands around the neck of Pelosi et al? No. Then byrd brain had no right to shoot someone who did not threaten him or others directly. All he has is ifs ands and butts for a defense.
Of course he walks just like joe biden will walk even after a display of stupidity that caused the murders of Americans and numerous Afghanis trying to escape a joe biden created disaster.
joe biden and the democRat Party…Who are bevis and buttheads? Right you are.
Anyone who has spent the last 28 years on Capitol Hill can’t possibly have a soul left.
She was climbing through the broken relite. Behind her were dozens of like-minded individuals. To me, this is clearly “disparity of force”. How many should he have let through before the shit hits the fan?
This is a lie. There was a SWAT team standing right behind Ashli when she was shot by that coward. They apparently determined that she wasn’t a deadly threat or they could have taken her at any time.
Actually there were unconcerned cops with rifles on Ashlie’s side of the door too.
So, several armed officers vs. unarmed people…
No disparity of force present since the crowd in the videos I see were not violent like the crowds I see in videos of Portland, etc.
So they “non-violently” broke the glass at the door?
Is breaking glass is a death penalty offense without a proper trial? How about with a proper trial?
No, they “mostly peacefully” broke the glass at the door… fixed it for ya with just a touch of left slant, Dave.
So the policeman acted stupidly, not by detaining the professor who was through an amusing chain of circumstances attempting to break into his own house, but by not gunning him down. Noted.
How many have the police shot to death during the antifa/SS riots? Stores looted. Arson. Weapons brandished. But how many of those mostly peaceful rioters were killed by the police?
This was as bad a misuse of authority as we’ve seen lately. It also puts the .gov in the position of being seen as willing to use deadly force unequally upon its citizens. Killing an unarmed protester, like at Kent State, while allowing armed criminals to loot and burn.
Fire bombs thrown into occupied vehicles, which only by the grace of God did not immolate the police inside.
“How many should he have let through before the shit hits the fan?”
All of them, one at a time, to be individually handcuffed and marched out the door behind them. It’s a perfect example of when a mob is NOT a deadly threat and there is no disparity of force: a barricade that prevents them from using their numbers, an opening that lets only one through at a time and requires them to use their hands to climb through, no weapons visible, a petite woman who I’m sure was loud and obnoxious but not a threat.
That cop lost his shit and fired in a panic. Shameful.
Also criminal.
Exactly how many people did they assault skippy? Contrast that with the Antifa-BLM rioters who invaded the hill. What did the cops do? Nothing.
Or, Little Mikey “Thug-Loser-In-Training” Brown strong arm robbery local convenience store for Cigarillos to make his blunts; assaulting store proprietor; walking down center line of street; slam cruiser door on LEO; struggle with LEO through cruiser window resulting in LEO pistol discharge; run from LEO; turn and bum rush LEO….winning stupid prize for playing stupid games. LEO career ended; loving father of young thug encouraging “burn it down”; parents for almost raising Defective Citizen get $1.4 million.
All right: I’m not an expert on the state of use-of-force law specifically concerning the chambers of the US House of Representatives, but hopefully there’s someone out there who can explain it all to me.
First of all, isn’t there something akin to the Castle Doctrine at play here? If someone is unlawfully forcing their way into your home, or even your car, it creates a presumption they mean to do you harm. You don’t have to wait to see a weapon, or any further proof of evil intent. Now, the actual Castle Doctrine wouldn’t apply to the chambers of Congress, but it’s there really nothing analogous on the books?
Second, is there no statute or case law that allows for the use of lethal force by government agents to prevent unauthorized entry into certain sensitive locations? I’m thinking not only of the chambers of Congress, but the White House, nuclear missile silos, NSA data centers, Area 51, etc.
Again, this is not an area of the law that I’m familiar with. But any discussion of the legalities of this shooting that don’t touch on these themes, simply assuming the same law that applies to cops responding to a burglary apply here, can’t be taken seriously.
Are cops allowed to gun down unarmed burglars?
Sure they are.
A cop can shoot you anytime you do not obey their commands.
I’m not saying it’s right that’s just the way it is.
You are dead wrong and have no idea of the rules of engagement
Those “rules” do not apply to cops, as we see all the time, including right here!
“First of all, isn’t there something akin to the Castle Doctrine at play here?”
How often do you have a full security force behind you and a SWAT team behind the intruder in a home defense situation? It’s completely different. In your home, you get to make the assumption that the person poses a threat. We know the Capitol intruders were protesting the election. Some were sparring with the police outside, but was Ashli? I also love how all you hypocrites are completely ignoring the excuses made to cover for rioters throughout 2020.
So “some protesters” were “sparring with” (i.e. actively fighting) and overrunning the police stationed outside the door, but we’re supposed to count the presence of those officers against the use of force?
And the fact a security team existed inside the chamber is supposed to tie the hands of that same team against using whatever force is necessary to secure it?
I’ve seen this pattern of argument before: having prepared for and being capable of using lethal defensive force is argued to somehow preclude the use of that force. It’s what we heard about George Zimmerman. It’s what we’re now hearing about Kyle Rittenhouse. Whenever someone doesn’t really believe a certain person has a right to defend themselves or others, their ability to do so is argued as a reason it should be forbidden. I don’t buy it.
DaveL, show me their training that says any unauthorized person is to be assumed to be a threat and can be immediately shot. In your home, you don’t even have to announce yourself. It’s a completely different situation in a building owned by the public and guarded by so-called highly trained professionals. His hands weren’t tied because he wasn’t alone. There wasn’t a disparity of force when there was a SWAT team right behind her. In other words, there wasn’t a threat. If Ashli’s shooting was justified, then other officers should have been shooting the rioters as well.
Of course I’m not privy to the training of Capitol security, which is why the lack of discussion thereof in analyses like Turkey’s is suspect.
I’ve already dealt with the fact that rioters overrunning SWAT officers is pretty much exactly the opposite of showing the lack of a threat.
Lots of places “owned by the public” are nevertheless NOT open to the public. In many of these, unauthorized entry will be prevented with lethal force, including examples I gave in my first comment. This is neither new nor controversial. Those places are guarded by trained professionals, too. So why is there no discussion about what law allows that, and why it wouldn’t apply to the House chamber?
The SWAT officers calmly standing behind Ashlie weren’t overrun. If the officers were authorized to shoot the unarmed protesters on site, then they need to fire those SWAT officers for failing to do their job. Why didn’t they just unload on that crowd before Ashlie even climbed through the window? You don’t believe in trying to arrest unarmed women before killing them? And yes, it is different because she’s a woman. She’s less of a physical threat. Only a coward would have shot her.
@DaveL,
I have the same questions and reservations as you do. See my own expanded comment further up this page.
If I were in the U.S. Capitol building and smashing my way through a barricaded door, I wouldn’t be surprised if I were shot by an officer on the other side as I was placing my body through the broken window to gain access within.
Not quite that simple. We have convicted murderers who get more due process than Ashli Babbit. Rules of engagement particularly when other officers are present and doing nothing, would dictate an arrest not shooting someone when in fact she was not overtly attacking or attempting to attack someone. When you own a firearm there are rules of engagement and all Byrd had to offer was she was a threat. The fact that they claimed he saved numerous lives is a joke when there were no lives lost but hers due to violence in the entire demonstration. How many rioters in Blue Cities were shot by police for physically attacking them? Next to no one and then they were released anyhow. This was a political assasination/
Due process is a red herring in defensive use-of-force analysis. For that matter, so is the sentence for trespassing, burglary, rioting, or any other offense you care to name. So let’s dispense with that at the outlet. Neither does the situation compare with a riot in the streets, which are spaces explicitly open to the public.
Incidentally, I agree that his claim of saving lives is a laying it on a bit thick.
Dave, The Capitol is not anybody’s home, so no, Castle Doctrine does not apply in any way. It is a publicly owned building and simply being inside is equally criminal as walking on the sidewalk. If she was destroying things, breaking glass for example, then she should be treated as though she were damaging the switchology for the crosswalk light in the sidewalk, mot shot to death as if we were at the peak of WW3. Deadly force should have only entered the picture if she were attacking a person with intent to injure that person. I have not seen ANYBODY claim that she was a steely-eyed killer assaulting a victim. There was no (zero) excuse for his actions.
If Donald Trump had been in the House chambers, all you right wing conservatives would have been shouting for the insurrectionists to be mowed down to protect “The Chosen One”.
That’s the fantasy you fascist left thrive on.
Jaybird, your response strains credulity.
So if Donald Trump were in the house chambers, and the violent rioters were chanting in unison “Hang Donald Trump!” as they smashed their way in you would have allowed them free access to the restricted area?
As the kids say…lol!
moronic ring meat
Wow you ignorance is breath taking. Try gunning down someone who enters your house through an open door and see what happens.
She played a stupid game and won a stupid prize. Did she “deserve” to die? No. Was the shooting justified? Yes. Was it tragic for all involved? Yes. Those rioters are lucky more of them weren’t shot.
It’s funny to watch people twist themselves into logistical knots to support Rittenhouse (which from outward appearances, his actions appear to be justified) while screaming about this issue.
If a bunch of democrats rioted when Trump was elected and tried to storm Congress, everyone here would have supported the shooting. Buncha hypocrites.
Hmmm… Remember in 2018 when liberals took over the Senate building on Capitol Hill to protest the Kavenaugh nomenation?
Guess not huh?
*nomination
Double standards. Sure sign of a non legit cause.
“Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry.” Jefferson
OOoo! Like NFA 1934, for example?
If a bunch of democrats rioted when Trump was elected and tried to storm Congress, everyone here would have supported the shooting.
You mean the last 4 years which were entirely that, a D riot and seditious conspiracy? Hmm…
“..She played a stupid game and won a stupid prize…”
Why is SHE the only one?
Why was the cop on TV saying how brave he was? Simple, his lawyers told him to, to get in front of the Civil cases that are coming at him..to try to shape any potential jury…He is going to lose.
No, he won’t lose, sorry. The civil cases will be dismissed with prejudice with the judges ruling that he was acting within his lawful duty and is immunized.
Use-of-Force Continuum is in play. It won’t get dismissed as long as the lawyers are not weak with no experience. A wrongful death is a wrongful death. Civil is not Criminal. We’ll have to wait and see.
https://pjmedia.com/columns/jack-dunphy/2021/08/29/lieutenant-byrd-speaks-but-shouldnt-have-n1474053
Breakdown on his interview.
So, unrepentant confederate slave owner Manse Jolly, would you like to place a small wager on whether or not a civil suit against Officer Byrd prevails?
another one who should be put under a bell jar and studied
As a LEO myself, what he did does not fall under the use of force continuum anywhere in the US. His act was an act of murder.. his actioms disgust all good LEO’s
Play stupid games -> win stupid prizes. Ashli Babbitt learned this the hard way.
So did the students at Kent State. Any time a regime is willing to turn firepower loose on its citizens they learn the hard way.
Meh…don’t wanna get shot? Don’t invade the capital! Surprised more idiots didn’t bite a bullet. Yes I voted for Trump. Big yes on a stolen election but never told those Yahoo’s to invade the capital!!!
We also have to remember that many of the people that broke in were NOT Trump supporters, they were there to cause trouble and Trump got the whole blame.
Sure, there are hotheads everywhere and BLM was very well supported there.
Kent State was a cluster-f*** perpetrated by poorly led, badly trained national guardsmen. To make matters worse, they couldn’t shoot straight. With four exceptions, the people they hit were over 100 yards away and no danger to them. The officers and NCOs in charge should have gotten dishonorable discharges from the guard after court martial.
Yes, especially the NCO seen firing his 1911.
But I am sure many on this list think that the National Guard troopers were entirely justified in killing students in order to prevent their entry into some building on campus.
Yet the same hypocrites would also avow that Ashli Babbitt’s violent, forced entry into the Speakers lobby of the United States Capitol as a member of a mob was entirely legal and the shooting was unjustified.
miner. You keep projecting your own fascist fantasy’s on others.
Jaybird, your replies are pretty weak today, are you feeling well?
Seriously my friend, I expect better witty repartee from you, we’re all getting older so take care of yourself.
If Babbitt’s shooting was justified, why did others beside her not get shot as well. Were they less threatening than her hulking 5’2″ 110lbs frame? I believe Byrd incompetently had taken his one Barney Fife bullet out of his shirt pocket, loaded his gun, shit his pants with finger on the trigger, having an accidental discharge. I recalled she was shot through a closed door/window, not while climbing through a broken window. That’s why the videos need to be released to public.
The overall response by Capitol Police was astonishingly restrained. There were incidents, recorded on video, of deadly force attacks on officers by rioters using improvised impact weapons. (I remember, in particular, a rioter beating an officer with a flag pole, US flag still attached.) Every such attack justified a bullet to the head of the rioter to save the officer.
A helpful suggestion: after you finish drinking the blood, be sure to wash up.
quote—————–This shooting was absolutely unjustified under any rules of the use of force by law enforcement officers. Was Babbitt breaking the law? Yes. She was clearly trespassing. That infraction carries a $1,000 fine, not a death sentence.—————quote
Looking past the usual ignorant hillbilly comments there was fault on both sides.
The people storming the capital made their intentions known and that was they were yelling they were going to kill the Congressmen. That was a direct threat to life and property.
The cop did not know who may have had concealed weapons and we now know plenty of them did because they bragged about it and some were caught with weapons but those were the small minority that were searched undoubtable there were hundreds more people that were armed. A bomb was also found nearby.
The cop was proven previously to be totally incompetent. He once left his weapon in
the restroom. Anyone that stupid should have been fired on the spot. How a moron like this could have ever been hired is beyond comprehension.
The cop could easily have fired a warning shot into the floor, wall, or ceiling. That would absolutely got everyone’s attention and I highly doubt Babbitt would have kept trying to break in. She was a veteran and damn well would have known she had crossed the line.
One must realize too that if you are an American you should know that law enforcement seldom obeys its own rules as they are often given immunity to kill and they all damn well know they usually can get away with blatant murder. One of the very few times a mad dog sadistic killer cop was prosecuted was in the outrageous torture murder of George Floyd. Only after the video went viral all over the world and mass protests erupted was a red faced American government forced to finally do something.
Need to release all videos of Jan 6. But, then public might see/identify government/Burn-loot-Mayhem/Antfart agitators in the crowd “nudging” crowd into actions individually they would not have taken. Crowd manipulation is a powerful, effective tool in anarchy toolbox. Believe quite possibly the Trump supporters were played into what happened by pros agitators dressed as Trumpers.
You deny reality, not one person who was arrested was an Antifa not one. They were all crazy right wing Trumpites. And law enforcement proved it was the Neo Nazi Proud Boys that planed and carried out the attack they were the leaders of the mob
John Sullivan.
No, John Sullivan is just a loose cannon journalist who was there to make money by capturing video to sell the news organizations, he did pretty good, about $90k for his work.
“During his March testimony to the Senate Judiciary Committee, FBI Director Christopher Wray said the bureau hadn’t seen “any evidence of any anarchist violent extremists or people subscribing to antifa in connection with the 6th.” Hundreds of videos taken at the Capitol during the insurrection show rioters brandishing pro-Trump, QAnon and far-right paraphernalia. Hundreds of federal charging documents reveal that members of far-right groups like the Proud Boys, not antifa, participated in the attack.
In case after case, research into the backgrounds of those arrested in connection with Jan. 6 revealed a long history of supporting Trump and other conservative causes.
Sullivan was paid, but not affiliated with antifa
News organizations paid Sullivan tens of thousands of dollars for his footage from the Capitol riot. But he has denied any affiliation with antifa, and federal charging documents do not suggest he’s linked to the movement.“
I believe if you checked with most law enforcement officers the rules of engagement do not allow for the shooting of an unarmed citizen without any real proof of serious intent to harm someone. Ashli Babbit was not an overt physical threat to anyone and the claim that this guy saved many lives when no lives were lost in the first place through violence but hers is a joke.
This is clearly a case of racism where a black officer kills a white woman without repercussions.
This should not go unchallenged and we need our Congress Reps and Senators to demand an investigation. This is the type of thing that is going to lead to a civil war in this Country. When the Government declares war on a certain segment of the population, in this case conservatives, you know it is going to explode sometime in the near future.
I hate it when the left tends to jump to racism as the underlying reason. I hate it more when our side does it. While I do not like the fact she was shot, I do not like the fact she crawled through a broken window. I think the LEO believed that if more of the mob can through the window, he would be stomped into the floor.
I also believe there is a lot more to why there wasn’t more security. We know it was offered and declined. Why? We see video of security holding the doors open for people. Why? In other videos there were people breaking out windows and vandalism inside. What is the real truth?
All I really know is I want a Shaman’s hat to go with my coyote skin hat.
The real truth is that the same people who allowed all the Blue City riots to go on for months without uttering a single word of protest, did not secure the outside of the Capitol appropriately and created the situation for Demonstrators to be able to enter the building. This was no mistake, it was intentional. As an example, the rule here in Colorado is that a person must have both feet inside your home before you can deploy a firearm against them. The reason being if they are not inside your house you really aren’t a threat at that point. While those folks were in the building no one was shot. So Ashli Babbits shooting would be analogous to your home here in Colorado. The video shows she had not breached the window and was shot while still climbing through it, unarmed and hardly a threat to an officer who had been pointing his gun at the demonstratiors for at least 30 seconds or so. So there is your answer. Total nonsense
It doesn’t matter what we say or think on this forum, all that matters is what God thinks.
Nice point. That should be true all the time, unfortunately it seems that fewer and fewer people believe that God is the ultimate authority..
Look at his face in the picture at the top of this article. He is scared. When in that kind of panicked state most people get tunnel vision, focusing on what they perceive to be the threat.
At the time he fired she was no threat to him or anyone else. He could have easily pushed her back through the window.
Either it was a ND or he is a murderer. Either way he is a coward. He saved nobody. Now he’s just trying to save his own ass.
Jed you are correct and this guy ought to be scared as no one will give it a second thought if he should meet with an accident. He is a murderer plain and simple and should have been arrested, indicted, tried and jailed.
Maybe an accidental suicide like the 4 other LEOs that were there?
“Look at his face in the picture at the top of this article. He is scared. When in that kind of panicked state most people get tunnel vision, focusing on what they perceive to be the threat.”
Under extreme stress, as in life-and-death perceived situation, one’s performance sinks to the lowest level of effective training. Barney shit his pants with finger on the trigger producing an accidental discharge. He should never have taken his one bullet…….hence only Babbitt shot….. out of his shirt pocket.
Exactly.
I would like to see the actual “Use of Force” policy for the US Capitol Police and compare it with the policy with the US Secret Service at the White House. My own use of force policy as a Corrections Officer at a maximum security state prison authorized lethal force to prevent inmate escape. That inmate most likely was unarmed, running away from me and because I was 30 feet off the ground in a tower unable to harm me. And because this prison housed all levels of felons, that inmate might be a drunk driver just caught too many times.
I need a beer and I’m breaking out.
Yes, one facility I was familiar with had an interesting policy. Guard towers with two COs, one armed with buckshot the other a mini 14.
Inmate on inmate violence, buck shot in the legs.
Inmate on staff violence, immediate center of mass perforation with 5.56.
I’ve watched the video multiple times. The two officers who had been standing guard outside the door had to withdraw due to the threat of being overwhelmed by the mass of rioters/seditious insurrectionists. The officers behind the door barricaded it with whatever furniture wasn’t nailed down, defending a bunch of members of Congress with no escape route. The officers behind the door had guns pointed at the door as the crazy people tried to batter it down.
Of course the first one thru that door got shot. What were the seditious fools expecting? To receive hugs from the officers and take selfies with the piles of burning boxes of ballot certifications from the fifty states?
The first person thru that door, trying to climb over the barricade, got shot. The only remarkable thing abut this is that it only took one shot to half the attack on that room full of targets.
Officer Byrd did his job that day with restraint and professionalism.
Lesson to cultists and Trump-inspired anti-Democracy, anti-Americans: If you do not want to get shot or hunted down by the FBI for your treasonous attack on the seat of our government, do not do the crime.
And what was the lesson learned by blue state rioters who actually physically attacke police, innocent civilians and destroyed businesses and were not only NOT shot but released without charges when arrested???? Double standard here perhaps???? Those events were more of an insurrection than what happened at the Capitol. They went on for months and are still going on.
And when the dumb crap is tolerated for almost a year, why should anyone expect repercussions when they do something similar? Maybe because their actions were illegal. I doubt the riots would have lasted as long as they did or spread across the country like they did if the early one would have been squashed, people jailed and restitution made.
I certainly do not support any riot or arson anywhere and anytime. No wrong justifies another. A crime is a crime, so go right ahead and demand arrests and charges for whatever crimes. But using one failure to prosecute to justify an even greater crime?
Not acceptable to me.
This people attempted to overthrow the government of the USA. I’ve no sympathy for any of them that suffer for their bad deeds. No different than if some rioter or arsonist in any city in this country suffers for their crime.
Watch. I guess you didn’t watch to close. She did not come through the door. She was attempting to climb through the broken window. Big difference than coming through an open door. He could have stopped her with one hand. Coward that he is he should shoot himself.
The other officers should have fired too. As should other officers in the Capitol that day. That only one person was shot is a remarkable display of police restraint.
I mean it’s unreal right? Understaffed, and with only one shot fired, they managed to turn back the mob who were all secretly packing…
Makes ya think don’t it?
“The only remarkable thing abut this is that it only took one shot to half the attack on that room full of targets.”
LOL, almost like it wasn’t the threat you claim it to have been…🤔…🤣
“piles of burning boxes of ballot certifications from the fifty states“
That was the stated goal of the insurrectionists, they were unequivocal about their plans to overturn the democratic election.
That is a far cry from looting a 7-Eleven, or burning a police car.
Crime is crime. Your double standards are showing. Again.
“Crime is crime”
No, one crime is not equivalent to another, such a simplistic view is obviously incapable of addressing the totality of the situation.
Really, are you feeling OK? Prostate acting up? COPD cutting down your O2?
Us older gentleman are often reluctant to see our family doctor, don’t let approach avoidance risk your health, who would I have such delightful discussions with if you shuffled off this mortal coil?
Projecting your fantasies again, miner. I’m in perfect health.
A “mob” is generally seen at law as a group with shared criminal intentions. The legal principle is when a violent mob attacks you, each member of the mob shares culpability and therefore shares vulnerability to lawful defense of self or others. This is true for most states. For instance, if someone shoots and kills a person during a robbery, every person who took part in that robbery will be held liable for the death, including the driver who never left the car and may not have known the intruders even had firearms. I think we have all seen that happen.
Some states break this down further. For instance; Michigan State law used to read, ‘Ordinance 15001 of Offenses Against the Public Peace defined a mob as “12 or more people armed with clubs or other dangerous weapons … or 30 or more, whether armed or not.”’ (I have not looked this up recently for Michigan or DC.)
But this would indicate Ashley taking a part in the illegal entry to the Capitol building and then entering the window she watched being broken out by a man with a staff, is acting in conjunction with the ‘mob’. Generally speaking, any rational person would understand if the door is barricaded, you shouldn’t enter it. Add to that, the Officer had his pistol out before she went through the window. A rational person doesn’t generally enter a place they are not supposed to be when someone is pointing a firearm in their direction. Unless you think Ashley was delivering Girl Scout cookies someone ordered, you have to concede she was acting in conjunction with the mob.
I don’t like the fact she was shot, but what options did the officer have? Even if he had taken her down and cuffed her, how does he handle the next 30 or forty people who enter? If tries to physically stop them, he will be overcome and that could result in a deadly attack or at least grave bodily harm.
We all seem to think the stupid crap in Seattle and Portland and Minneapolis and …Should have been shut down. Not the peaceful protest, the burning, looting, destruction of property, attacks of LEOs and other stupid stuff.
I am only surprised this kind of response from law enforcement didn’t happen sooner.
From the beginning of the riots, I told my friends and family if they went to a riot and got caught up in the stupid stuff and killed, I would kick the crap out of them at the funeral for being a dumbass.
However, we have seen that Statute Law (written) and Tort Law (how it is decided) can be two different things. Especially in the court of public opinion. Would anyone care if a 250-pound biker had crawled through that broken window and got shot? I doubt it.
Not a popular point of view, but I do believe it is the correct one.
Well stated and factual. Good job.
I am also saddened by the woman’s demise. But I make no excuses for her, she made the choices she made. There were very bad choices, but they were all on her from beginning to end.
“I don’t like the fact she was shot, but what options did the officer have?”
He could’ve given her a couple seconds to retreat once he presented to her? Considering no weapons involved or seen, the idea he had to crank one almost instantly seems dubious.
“A rational person doesn’t generally enter a place they are not supposed to be when someone is pointing a firearm in their direction.”
What evidence is there that she knew a gun was pointed at her and then continued to enter?
“12 or more people armed with clubs or other dangerous weapons … or 30 or more, whether armed or not.”’
And there you have it.
If Donald Trump had been in the house chambers, everyone on this list would’ve been shouting for blood and completely supporting the shooting was justified.
“ Back the Blue!” Blue Lives matter!” “ Play stupid games, win stupid prizes”
Irony. It’s not just for breakfast.
No but Coors is.,,,,,
I think it’s time for breakfast.
She was an unarmed protester being calmly escorted into the capitol by police officers who are also calmly walking next to her carrying M4 rifles. This woman was shot by another police officer who was behind a barrier that she did not breach.
If a person does not breach their way into your home you would be tried for murder. Having shot and killed someone who was simply outside of your home. But as I have often said TTAG. The government can kill you to protect government property. But you are not allowed to kill to protect your private property.
So this policeman that Libertarians Liberals and the Left claim they hate cops so much, now many of them celebrate the government clearing him for killing an unarmed protester. They hatred “Trumps secret police”.
Now it’s ok, they are Bidens secret police now.
Perhaps you watched a different edit of the video I saw. I saw Babbitt in the process of climbing up into the broken (breached) window of the barricaded door in an attempt to gain access within the barricaded area. That certainly wasn’t part of being “calmly escorted by police officers”, or the implied permission.
As I stated in an earlier comment above, it was failure all around. Babbitt should not have been attempting to breach a barricade, and was caught up in the adrenaline of the crowd. The uniformed officers should have never allowed her/them to be there. And Byrd should have assessed the situation a bit more closely before making his decision.
But in light of what I now know, I tend to sympathize more with Officer Byrd, albeit with a heavy head.
Many protesters in the past have tried to climb over barricades, and they were also unarmed. And the police did not shoot them either.
Yes I saw her trying to climb up the barricade. But she was not a threat. Because her “police escort” didn’t see her as a threat. Cops carry pepper spray. They use it all the time on unarmed protesters. Who become unruly, but are still unarmed. Or they use a Taser.
But then again government property is treated differently than private property.
Yes, and the Capitol interior is no doubt treated with extra caution. Those officers inside wearing suits may have only possessed handguns on them, and not any less-than-lethal option other officers with full kitted belts have at their disposal.
It matters little what the uniformed officers outside with Babbitt thought of her. The person who pulled the trigger was inside, was in a different environment (a separate room behind a barricade), and had a different POV as he witnessed the incoming protesters. He had different information available to his five senses with which to make his own decision.
I still, for the life of me after all this time since Jan 6, cannot fathom why Babbitt was trying to break through a clearly delineated “no pass” barricade. She knew she was trespassing, and she knew she was the first in line to attempt climbing through. It must have been the emotional rush of being part of the crowd. I dunno. Sad it happened this way.
“It matters little what the uniformed officers outside with Babbitt thought of her.”
If Ashli was really a threat, then they should be fired for neglecting to stop the threat. The coward that shot her doesn’t get a pass just because he had a different point of view.
@Dude,
So after you shoot an intruder who breaks into your house, and whom you personally perceive as a threat, are you going to use that logic to argue with your next door neighbor for not stopping the perp because your neighbor saw something different and concluded that he certainly was trespassing, but had not yet witnessed evidence of a threat and didn’t do anything?
As a thought experiment, let’s take one of those uniformed officers and place him inside where Byrd was, and put Byrd somewhere else. That uniformed officer now has a different POV with a different set of info with which to assess his environment. I agree that Babbitt wasn’t threat to those uniformed officers outside in the hallway, as they were apparently figuring out how to deal with the crowd. But as soon as she tried to climb through the barricade, she quickly changed the situation, with the span of a second.
In my state, I don’t have to determine if an intruder is a threat. If it is someone that doesn’t belong there, then I can shoot that person without even announcing my presence. I don’t have to wait until they’re fully inside my house. My “castle” also includes the pathways that I travel on outside between various structures and vehicles. I don’t have to have any special training. I don’t even need a permit. I don’t think it matters what my neighbor thinks about an intruder.
I agree with you that a situation, including this one, can look very different depending on your view, etc. However, that only changes your perception of the situation, it doesn’t change the reality of the situation. One is either a threat or not. They aren’t trying to say it looked like she was a threat. Those clowns are saying this guy is a hero for shooting an unarmed woman that was apparently about to go on a killing spree. They are pushing the narrative that he saved lives.
Dude, wait! Are you saying that if someone is an intruder inside a grocery store you can just shoot him dead without warning, while he is perusing the cereal aisle? Those provisions are for your own property, which the Capitol is not. This supposed cop was not being attacked in his home, he was on duty and required to follow the law. He did not.
“I agree with you that a situation, including this one, can look very different depending on your view, etc. However, that only changes your perception of the situation, it doesn’t change the reality of the situation. One is either a threat or not.”
I understand some of what you’re saying, and I think we’re generally of the same opinion in the larger POTG world, but this specific situation appears to have landed me on the side that doesn’t have as much support as the other.
In regards to your statement (italicized above), perception is absolutely the basis upon which decisions are made, both in the moment of an action, and the later confirmation or acquittal of charges against that person. For example, if you and I are standing on a sidewalk together and you see someone make a gun gesture with their hand and place it in their hoodie pocket, then approach us to say, “Gimme your wallet or I’ll shoot”, you’ll know the reality that the perp doesn’t truly have a gun, and therefore doesn’t present that level of threat to us.
But I was looking the other way before he approached, and all I see is a man in a hoodie pointing what appears to be a concealed gun, and threatening to kill me. My perception is that of my life being in imminent danger, so if I draw my own (legal) weapon and shoot/kill him, I’ll likely be exonerated of any charges because I genuinely perceived a threat warranting deadly force in response. Regardless of the reality.
Regarding his perception, he admitted that he didn’t see her with a weapon. Everyone here defending his actions seems to think that it’s okay to kill a non-threat in order to possibly prevent other threats. It isn’t okay to shoot Ashli just because you think some big guy is coming in behind her. Actually, he acted like she was the threat. We know that’s a joke because there were officers with rifles standing behind Ashli on the stairs. We also know that at least two of the front line “protesters” were journos working for CNN. Do we have an accounting of every other person standing around Ashli? How do you know they weren’t journos or undercover agents?
They want to pretend like he’s some hero and move on. If the political roles were reversed, they would never let this go. If an officer thinks a petite, unarmed woman in an awkward position is a deadly threat, then maybe we need to take a look at their training and personnel. You better believe that would happen if Ashli was a BLM protester.
@LarryinTX, no I don’t think that. I was responding to a hypothetical situation from Haz.
4 officers later “committed suicide”?
1, I *might* buy, but 4?
That’s way too far a reach…
Lemming effect.
Nobody asked for, or cares about, your stupid opinion. You are a disgusting pervert who has never been with a woman in the biblical sense.
Kick rocks, pedo 🖕🤡.
Get real, he’s no pedophile anymore than Hillary Clinton is a pedophile.
He’s an American citizen who has a different opinion about the situation, which I don’t particularly agree with.
But I will gladly defend to the death his right to say things that make me feel uncomfortable or pissed off, that’s the American Way.
Get a grip you whiny snowflake and man up. Not everyone will agree with you in this world, and with your attitude I’d say no one will agree with you.
So what you’re telling me is that if I were to shoot and kill an intruder in my own home under the same circumstances I would not face any charges correct?
Yes if u let them in u would bet on it
FYI
From 2019
A U.S. Capitol Police lieutenant left his service weapon in a bathroom Monday night and the unattended gun was discovered later by another Capitol Police officer.
After the House adjourned on Monday, Lt. Mike Byrd left his Glock 22 in a bathroom in the Capitol Visitor Center complex, according to sources familiar with the incident. Byrd is the commander of the House Chambers section of the Capitol Police and was on the job Tuesday and Wednesday.
Byrd addressed the incident at Tuesday morning’s officer roll call and, according to sources, told fellow officers that he “will be treated differently” because of his rank as a lieutenant. It was not clear what exactly the lieutenant meant by the comment.
https://www.rollcall.com/2019/02/27/capitol-police-weapon-left-unattended-in-capitol-bathroom-again/
He was payed to protect the Whitehouse.
She was warned.
She got shot.
Its amazing more people weren’t shot.
.
.
If you scroll back on ttag when all the jan6 was getting started you’ll find I said going to the Whitehouse was a dumb idea.
No, he was at the Capital Building. Secret Service protects the White House. Try again troll.
possum is no Troll.
Dont matter secret service or Barney Fife.
When a badge tells you to stop and you continue to pursue your endeavor your liable to wind up getting shot.
” Its my right, ” and “the law says” dont mean diddly squat when a cops got a gunm aimed at you.
What’s that thing in AA, something about being powerless.
That’s how it is when facing a cop.
I dont like it, no sir not one bit but that’s just reality.
“What’s that thing in AA, something about being powerless.
That’s how it is when facing a cop.”
The Marsupial One has a valid point.
(Unlike the one on the top of my head… 🙂 )
‘Possum logic, I suppose… 😉
In the United States of America, if you force your way into someone’s home/business, you are liable to get ventilated. Unsurprisingly, this also applies to government buildings, or other places where there may be armed security.
If someone on the other side of a threshold is aiming a gun at you, you are lucky if they give you a warning at all.
What did y’all expect?
They expected white privilege…
So it doesn’t exist after all?
The only reason this man came forward with the interview was because the FBI found no coordination for the events on January 6th. Democrats are covering their narrative.
Reading the comments is both hilarious and horrifying. Many of the same people who don’t bat an eye through myriad police shootings or abuses are suddenly skeptical of the police narrative. Many people with “thin blue line” bumper stickers all the sudden have an issue with the cops shooting someone actively breaking and entering a government building.
What on earth did you think was going to happen when a hoard of people started attacking the Capitol Building of the United States? I’m frankly surprised more people didn’t get shot.
I highly doubt the people upset by this shooting would be upset if a BLM or Antifa rioter got smoked doing the same thing; indeed, they’d cheer it on!
A better option would be to ALWAYS approach state-sponsored violence with extreme skepticism. But that’s called holding to a principle rather than partisanship and that hasn’t been in vogue for a while. Sad!
The only reason he was “exonerated” is because he is black. Period. Blacks killing whites is perfectly fine in Xiden’s Amerikkka. But let a white cop kill a black and he is immediately fired and charged. His interview was a classic case of self-justification and delusion.
The outcome would be the same if it was a white guy. They need him to be vindicated for two reasons. They’ll never stop pushing the violent insurrection narrative despite no charges for it. A cop saving lives by shooting a threat only helps this narrative.
On the flip side, if the shooting wasn’t justified, then wouldn’t that require a very extensive investigation into how something this tragic could happen? Who do you think would stand to lose in that type of investigation?
Michael,
I’d be inclined to agree with your general sentiment if this were a downtown metropolitan locale, but I hafta agree with Dude that this particular outcome would likely have been the same regardless of skin color. This entire situation was spun to trash Trump, not Whites in general.
That is very true, but shouldn’t that worry us even more about the state of our country right now?
Why didn’t he fire a warning shot? It probably would have worked just fine. If not? Well, I assume he had more than one bullet.
Maybe he had a P320 and it just went off.
Nobodies going to buy that though.
Here’s some pics to show Lt. Byrd in action,,,, note the lack of trigger discipline (in more ways than one.) https://federalinquirer.com/breaking-exclusive-police-lieutenant-who-shot-and-killed-ashli-babbitt-lead-murder-suspect-in-ashli-babbitt-case/?amp=1
If there’s any justice in this world, Michael Byrd’s name will be spoken with the same loathing and disgust reserved for FBI sniper Lon Horiuchi, who murdered Vicky Weaver at Ruby Ridge for the crime of standing in a doorway holding a baby.
robert g evans he’s also the POS who shot people trying to get out of the burning building at waco too. women and kids
The Killers history indicates that he may have a drinking problem. Leaving a loaded gun in the House restroom, running around the floor of the Capital that day with his finger on the trigger pointing the weapon at fellow officers and members of congress. My bet the guy is a POS bored government worker with a drinking problem.
I was shopping for a fitted holster at a local brick-and-mortar police/LE supply store, and the employee assisting me said a uniformed Sheriff Deputy (insert eye roll here) had left his duty gun in the changing room after trying on some new pants.
Pretty sure it wasn’t indicative of a drinking problem. Just poor attention.
Yep, happens all the time.
We had a local sheriff’s deputy here who left his Glock laying on the trunk after a range session.
It bounced off after a few miles, was found and pawned by some innocent individual.
And just where is “here”, Miner?
The government has demonstrated that mobs(unarmed) breaching barricades and breaking and entering where innocents are sheltered, may be met with lethal force. They have set the precedent.
That precedent was set a long long time ago.
“When the Capitol Hill riot — or the “insurrection” as the mainstream media like to refer to it”
“Insurrection” has been the position of government as well. Lethal force against a violent insurrection is easier to justify than against rioters. Once it took this position, it had no choice to find away to exonerate Byrd.
Hopefully, the family can sustain legal action after all the convictions for trespassing, vandalism and ‘illegal parading ” are in and that this was no ‘insurrection and the shooting of an unarmed woman cannot be justified.
Hopefully … not. It is a terrible thing that the family will never come to terms with. Nor should any legal action punish an officer for doing his duty.
So shooting an unarmed woman is police duty? Bull crap. If he had no credible evidence that she was armed, he should not have fired period. That is standard police procedure and since he did not follow standard procedure which resulted in the death of a person, he should have at the very least been removed from his position. Now, if she had been armed or resisted arrest and took an arm from him, that would be a different story. But since that isn’t the case, why should this cop be held to a different standard then all other cops.
It’s pretty clear that the Capitol Police Officer shot her because he is a racist.
Hey “donkey ears”, I think it’s pretty clear just who the racist is in this post.
Don’t break the law, don’t get shot. Listen to the Police, don’t get shot. Simple.
Another reason to hate the blacks. Will get it back.
“Babbitt and those with her should not have been forcefully smashing their way inside”
Correct, and this was no simple ‘smash and grab’ theft, but rather an intentional assault upon the election process mandated by the United States Constitution.
What is it are you ‘POTG’ say? Oh yes…
“Play stupid games, when stupid prizes”
minor you must have won the STUPID lottery grand prize. STUPID FOR LIFE.
First off miner, that’s win a stupid prizes. Second, do you believe the same thing applies for all those black people killed because they fought an officer? If your answer is no, that’s pretty hypocritical, but if your answer is yes, shouldn’t this police officer face the same thing other police officers have faced for similar situations? Where is your outrage on that?
And here’s some late breaking news on the legal troubles of the insurrectionists, it seems one of their grandstanding attorneys is claiming ‘COVID!’ to excuse his legal malpractice.
He will probably end up sanctioned and disbarred, sued into pauperhood, as will the rest of the Kraken’s merry band of pranksters including Sidney Powell, Lin Woods, et al.
I’d say most of his ‘clients’ are headed for prison, enjoy!
“The Justice Department on Monday alerted several federal judges that an outspoken attorney representing at least 17 alleged rioters charged in connection with the Jan. 6 Capitol insurrection is reportedly hospitalized and possibly incapacitated after testing positive for COVID-19, leaving the bulk of his cases effectively at a “standstill” and his clients “without counsel.”
The California-based attorney, John Pierce, currently represents more defendants charged in the riot than any other defense lawyer — including multiple alleged members of the Proud Boys group and a number of individuals accused of assaulting law enforcement officers.
Pierce, whose firm has previously represented former President Donald Trump’s attorney Rudy Giuliani and Trump’s former campaign adviser George Papadapoulos, had been fundraising for his efforts defending accused rioters through a new organization he set up.
But in a filing made Monday in multiple Jan. 6 cases in which Pierce is involved, the Justice Department said that Pierce has been unresponsive to the government for a week, and that phone numbers for his practice have been disconnected.
In recent weeks, an associate at Pierce’s law firm, Ryan Marshall, has appeared in Pierce’s place during multiple hearings, where he offered conflicting reports about the status of Pierce’s health.“
https://abcnews.go.com/US/unresponsive-lawyer-jan-defendants-leaves-cases-standstill-prosecutors/story?id=79736173&cid=clicksource_4380645_2_three_posts_card_hed
So wait a minute, let me get this straight. A white cop has his taser forcibly removed from his person by a perp resisting arrest and when he shoots the perp because whether it is less then lethal (but can still be lethal in certain circumstances) or not, the perp now has a weapon he can turn on the cop or an innocent bystander, we get riots and calls to arrest that cop. But we have a clear case of a black cop shooting a white person without any weapon on her, a cop that certainly did not follow police procedure, and they will not press charges? Yeah, these liberal politicians are extremely corrupt. And whether whoever wrote this is qualified or not liberal trolls, the case still remains the same. If a man came into my house and there was no evidence of a gun, if I shoot the guy, I would be arrested for murder. And this police officer is supposed to have more training. And you liberal trolls on here who can’t even acknowledge the hypocrisy in this case, show yourself to be just as bad as these politicians. Oh, and one other thing. Even with a clear cut case of this police officer clearly murdering an unarmed combatant of a different color, you haven’t seen any conservatives destroying any towns. Maybe liberals should take notes.
Obviously, Byrds’s the Lieutenant of Pelosi’s private Capitol Hill Police Assassination Squad.
With Garland running the DOJ, why is anyone surprised at Byrd’s exoneration?
Did you really think we’d learn the “Truth?”
Ashli Babbit’s crime? She wasn’t Black.
Old Nan needs to be removed from office on charges of corruption and UnAmerican activities- for starters. Old Nan reminds one of the Dowager Empress of China- super-annuated, crabbed, evil, and determined to the “nth degree” to hold onto power at whatever cost, even betrayal of erstwhile friends and allies..