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The terrorist attack in San Bernardino was the biggest loss of life to terrorism in the United States since 9/11. The attack took place in California, a state with the strictest gun control laws, using firearms which were legally purchased. Naturally the first reaction of the gun control crowd — as is always the case — is to find the nearest microphone and claim [INSERT TRAGIC INCIDENT HERE]  is just more proof that we need more and tougher gun control laws. Now, California Attorney General Kamala Harris (heir apparent for Dianne Feinstein’s Senate seat and the nation’s best-looking AG) is leading the charge to, once and for all, ban semi-auto rifles in the Golden State . . .

From the press release Thursday:

Today, Attorney General Kamala D. Harris and Assemblymember David Chiu announced legislation to close the “bullet button” loophole.  This loophole enables a firearm owner to use a bullet or other pointed object to quickly detach and replace a weapon’s ammunition magazine, converting a rifle into a semi-automatic assault weapon.  An individual can switch magazines on a gun with a bullet button within seconds.  This bill would expand the classification of assault weapons to include semi-automatic center fire rifles, which are capable of accepting detachable magazines.

“The devastation wrought by gun violence on innocent victims, children and families in this country is an international embarrassment,” said Attorney General Harris. “This is a common sense solution that closes a dangerous loophole in California’s assault weapons ban.  We simply must do everything we can to keep dangerous, high capacity firearms off of our streets and out of our communities.”

Assembly Bill 1663 will broaden the classification of restricted firearms to include dangerous assault weapons that are currently easy to purchase and manufacture.  In 1989, passage of the Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act (the AWCA) made it a felony to manufacture any of the assault weapons listed in the statute.  In 1999, the Legislature expanded the AWCA to include more technologically advanced semiautomatic weapons, including firearms with a “fixed magazine” and/or firearms with “the capacity to accept a detachable magazine.”  Under current law, manufacturers have been able to create firearms with detachable magazines that evade classification as assault weapons that are prohibited from being possessed, sold, transferred or imported into the state without a permit.  “Bullet buttons” require the tip of a bullet or tool to release a magazine and insert a new one.  Because a device is needed to eject the magazine, bullet button firearms are not restricted under the AWCA statute.

“We must close the loopholes in our assault weapons ban so that guns like the ones used in San Bernardino, Newtown, and Aurora cannot be bought legally in our state,” said Assemblymember David Chiu (D-San Francisco), who first worked on gun legislation as a United States Senate aide in the mid-1990s.  “Detachable magazines cost lives, and it is more important to save lives during future mass shootings than to be able to reload assault weapons in the blink of an eye.  I appreciate the sponsorship by Attorney General Harris and look forward to working this year with my colleagues and the Governor’s office on this and other efforts to prevent gun violence.”

The bill can be found here, and while Harris might believe that this is a minor clerical change the reality is that her proposal would ban every semi-automatic rifle in the state of California. The bill would change the definition of a “detachable magazine” to the following:

“Detachable magazine” means an ammunition feeding device that can be removed readily from the firearm without disassembly of the firearm action.

The problem here is that every semi-auto firearm in the history of the world is designed to allow the magazine to be removed without the disassembly of the firearm action. Even the M1 Garand has an “ammunition feeding device that can be readily removed from the firearm without disassembly” in the form of an en bloc clip. Depending on how exactly you read that sentence no firearm designed after 1940 would be safe from the California ban hammer.

The only question is how broadly California will apply this new law (when passed). My guess is that they’re going to use it as a hammer to systematically eliminate every semi-auto rifle in the state. Given that California is already using the handgun roster as an effective tool to ban all new handguns for California residents Look for the state define these terms as broadly as possible to further restrict citizens’ fundamental civil right to keep and bear commonly used firearms.

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    • And the idiots support it because Democrat.
      GA State House Democrats just drafted an assault weapons and high capacity magazine ban and confiscation bill.
      I told my uninformed coworkers, Democrats, about the bill and at first they said “they ain’t taking my guns”. Then when I explained that the Republican overwhelming majority would prevent it from passing, they started debating me on the reason no one needs a “street sweeper”. Then the anti arguments started flying. “You won’t be able to use your gun against multiple gunmen”. You will get shot by the cops because they won’t know you from the bad guy if you both have guns”. Bla bla bla. From gun owners. Blind loyal Democrats.

    • CA (not even a full CA CA) is now a legal territory of the U.S. under the governing authority of the State of Oklahoma. Oklahoma plans on converting the state into a series of rifle and pistol ranges, and a few cemeteries until they rid the U.S. of ISIS.

        • Okies made CA great in the 30s and 40s. That’s my roots. Couldn’t stand the slide toward tyranny though and left the not so golden state four years ago. No looking back.

    • Most of our problem is in two particular regions of the state, breaking them off into their own state, and letting the rest join america would solve the problem.

        • Sorry, but even a REALLY big earthquake (re: 1906) only moves the plates 10-15ft and it you’d still left with San Francisco and most of the Los Angeles area because their on the Continental plate.

          What could very well happen with legislation such as this and other Progressive Fascist proposals is an electoral schism which will split the state. You don’t need to get far from the coast to realize that California is two very separate states culturally and politically.

        • I’m hoping for a magnitude 247 Earthquake that floats San Fran and LA off to Australia.

          Or we let Mexico take it over.

        • @voiceofreason “.. is an electoral schism which will split the state.”

          I lived in the SF Bay Area for ten years a long while back and I remember every conversation about splitting the state went something along the lines of “where do you draw the line?”

          San Francisco wanted to draw the line around San Jose. San Jose wanted to draw the line down around Kingsville. They wanted to draw the line down around SLO. They wanted to draw the line down about Ventura. The line for the split was always just a bit further south than wherever you were.

          I had friends down in the LA Basin and they always had the conversation in reverse, LA wanted to draw the line at Ventura, they wanted to draw the line at SLO, and you get the idea.

          So even in the desire to split the State into different regions the Politicians wind up screwing it up.

        • >> an electoral schism which will split the state

          The state cannot split itself. It can ask Congress to do so, but what makes you think that Congress would ever approve such a thing?

    • Most Arizonians would love to wall up the border with California, and require a strict visa process for Californians to enter Arizona. The two biggest sources of criminals in Arizona is Mexico and California, and stopping the flow would be a huge win for us.

      • The north/south divide in California has never been real.

        In the past decade the east/west one has become both real, and extreme. From the Tehachapi’s north draw a line 50 miles back from the coast and you have what California used to be. West of that is a festering pustule of East Coast transplant know it alls.

        • To the person above regarding a potential splitting of California into 2 or more parts. You are correct, Congress would have to approve it, but in reality this would be nothing more than a formality if it were approved by the voters via the referendum process.

    • It would be a good start if, at a minimum, people from freer parts of the country who ought to know better, would at least stop falling into the trap of rah-rahing behind the feds usurping ever more of our freedoms and earnings, in order to “prevent more San Bernandinos.” Just leave the idiots alone. If they don’t feel like shooting back when shot at…. who gives a f what happens to them.

    • I am from California, they will never ever take my guns away.
      California Lawmakers are ignorant and stupid.
      The legislation was introduced by David Chiu an assembly member from San francisco, well he is of chinese background while there’s nothing wrong with that and without sounding racist, He thinks this is China … Well to you California lawmakers and fuckheads… this is America…. God bless America and it’s called a second ammendment… Governor of Texas told Obama that if you try to take our guns away it will be a revolution… Well assembly member, David Chiu if you don’t believe in 2nd amendment go back and live in China .
      You are a coward and ignorant asshole

    • Lower courts have since given Heller the middle finger (i.e. Highland Park, IL ban of evil black rifles), and SCOTUS has ignored it when happened, refusing to hear appeals of such cases.

      • The Highland Park decision is detrimental to the 2nd amendment. Not only because it is emboldening the antis, but because “feels over facts” is now a legal precedence. Something can be banned, regulated, taxed, etc, because some politician “feels” it is dangerous, without any facts whatsoever.

      • I guess they’re going to have to pass a constitutional amendment that states it is illegal to ignore the constitution. If you x-rayed these mother fuckers heads,they would be solid bone all the way through.

        • Words on paper my friend. The problem isn’t the supreme court not hearing those cases, since as far as they’re concerned, their dictum is there. The problem is that their decision isn’t being executed, as lower courts are being allowed to play in their sandbox by a certain branch of the government. President over Precedent sadly.

        • You’re just plainly wrong. Yes, 2A didn’t apply to the states originally, but the clear and obvious intent of 14A was to make all rights that were protected on federal level also protected on the state level. That it is now actually being interpreted that way is both constitutional, and good.

        • Oh, so you’re a neo-Confederate.

          It’s funny how 14th (and I assume 13th) were “illegal”, but, say, slavery, or the Three Fifths compromise weren’t. I might as well claim that the original Constitution was “illegal”, because all the southern states didn’t properly represent their slave populations (and two of them even had more slaves then free people), so it was not legitimately ratified by people whom it purported to govern.

          Alternatively (or concurrently), I would argue that the governments of the Southern states before the Reconstruction were plainly illegitimate under the “republican form of government” clause of the US Constitution, since denying voting rights to slaves is directly contrary to such a form of government in any meaningful sense.

          Of course, the whole American War of Independence business – aka rebellion and mutiny against the lawful government of the British Empire – was totally illegal to begin with, as well.

          Not that I care much. In both cases, good guys won, and you lost. Suck it up.

        • At least you’re consistent in being in favor of more centralized power in the Federal Government, both back in the mid-19th century and now.

          I want limited Constitutional Federal Government like Jefferson and Madison wanted, not a powerful, centralized, activist government. I want maximum individual liberty and economic freedom. The only way to have that is with less Federal Government as the aforementioned Founders wanted.

        • Funnily enough, I actually do want more decentralization and less powers for the feds. But I think that one of the powers they can and should legitimately have is to protect and enforce natural rights of citizens when they are infringed by the states. So, for example, the federal level should have zero gun control laws – it should be entirely in purview of the states – but the feds should intervene when the states enact such laws that clearly cross the boundary (such as AWBs).

    • The Heller decision stated and affirmed 3 things: 1) The right to own firearms is an individual right. 2) The Congress and State Legislatures may reasonably restrict specific types of firearms. 3) Whether or not a person may carry a firearm, is up to their respective State Legislature, or – if on Federal property – Congress.
      Constitutional debates always focus on what constitutes “reasonable”.

  1. “Detachable magazines cost lives”


    Idiots getting elected to public office cost far more lives than detachable magazines. Some of the lives lost to politician idiocy is a slow, lingering death that takes years, but it’s all on them.

    At least a 10/22 is still cool in CA, though. For now. Wasn’t it in the 80’s they had the big ramp-up for .22 (and rimfire in general) being The Big Evil round? I seem to remember that…the “Saturday Night Special” propaganda included a lot of the evils of .22’s. (Also, in one of Tom Clancy’s books, the key ‘hero’ used a .22 rifle as an OMG! SNIPER RIFLE!!).

    Bounce back-n-forth. Target one type, lose traction, move to another, lose traction, back to the first one. Repeat as necessary on a timescale longer than the collective memory of the constituency.

  2. The SKS requires disassembly to remove the original box magazine. I wonder if that would be exempt? Of course, nobody uses the original anyway.

    • I do.

      I never converted to detachables because back in the day when I bought my SKS, the available detachable magazines were less reliable. Maybe that’s changed; I have not looked into it. Seeing one at the range not too long ago did not convince me it has changed; the dude had a hard time getting the mag to seat properly for proper feeding.

      • The are a host of issues with the duckbill detachable magazines. The mag well opening may need to be widened slightly to ease insertion and extraction. Most of us use the Tapco p-mags. There is a longstanding feed problem with these that is very easily corrected. The, for lack of a better term, labia are too long and do not angle upward to place the next round at a good angle for reliable insertion (yep, I chose that one). All one need do is compare the Tapco and original box magazine and mark the amount of plastic to be removed. Using a Dremel with the course small sanding drum, remove the excess material at the front end. Then take the sanding drum and place it under the labia and tilt the Dremel upward to create a slight upward angle. It takes about 2 minutes per mag and the issue is resolved forever. I have about 20 duckbill mags and never have any issues with them.

      • It depends on the individual rifle and brand of magazine. I have a Tapco 30rd mag that works fine with my SKS sitting in an archangel stock, but it won’t seat in my SKS with plain wood stock without modification.
        And with either rifle, polymer Promags will often try feeding more than one round because the feed-lips are not molded right, while the no-name steel 20/30 round mags simply don’t work no matter what due to the follower & spring being entirely too loose & weak.
        Even though the Tapco mag functions perfectly & can easily be reloaded using stripper clips, I just use the original 10rd box, because the days of being able to afford burning up 30 rounds are long gone.

    • If it is in any way possible to convert the weapon to a detachable magazine, the law will likely consider it as having or can have a detachable magazine. So it’ll be banned too.

      Or they’ll just ban stripper clips.

    • I have the original. In fact I have “one less” the original – mine’s also lacking the bayo lug.

      It’s that way for this exact reason – I call it my “AWB backup gun”.

      There’s actually one other – Kel-Tec SU-16. It’s the first backup, but it has a detachable mag, and it has been listed by name in some new AWB proposals; so SKS is the ultimate fallback. No bayonet, no “barrel shroud”, fixed mag, and just generally looks like your grandpa’s hunting rifle to the clueless.

      Of course, fallback doesn’t matter if they just ban all semi-autos Australia-style…

    • I do too. Hell, mine came with a duckbill, and I found an original to replace it with because it’s more reliable, and it’s easier to use stripper clips with. I’m much faster with them than replacing those goofy mags.

    • Can we really be sure that the SCOTUS will agree with us that this is insanity? After the Obamacare ruling and the ruling that corporations have the same rights as living humans I don’t trust that they will come to an acceptable resolution. We’re much better off handling things like this by electing the right people in the first place. In California, it’s going to take a huge PR effort to swing the attitudes of the voters.

      • “In California, it’s going to take a huge not possible to mount a large enough PR effort to swing the attitudes of the voters.”

        There, fixed that for you.

    • Any idiot can see how miserably all of their other 2A-infringing laws have failed. It doesn’t stop them. They’ll never stop.

      • Correct. Expected to fail, so they have an excuse to take the next step. Which will also be expected to fail to achieve the stated purpose. Of course, each law helps achieve the ACTUAL purpose, viz. civilian disarmament.

    • Their failures are why they want their laws pushed on neighbouring areas. Being surrounded by states or cites that do not have their problems must be blamed for their problems in order to hide the evidence of their failures.

      I’m amazed at the contortions the human mind can undergo without killing itself.

  3. I have long thought that the progressives should have their own country to make that way they want. It seems that they would not be happy if they couldn’t impose their rules on the rest of us though. So it looks like the culture war will have to continue and probably worsen.

    • Then they would just emigrate from their ‘progressive’ country back to the US after they wrecked it. Just like they have done with Californian’s migrating to Oregon, Colorado, Nevada, and Arizona. They wrecked their own state through their progressive tripe, then they move here and start it all over again.

      Definition: Insanity.


  4. The sad thing is it is probably going to pass, and be upheld in federal court. Soap, ballot, jury… what comes last again?

  5. In 2008 the number of “DOJ Approved Handguns” was around 1400. Today that number is around 700. The goal for them is to get that number to Zero. This is just another tool to speed that effort. I think in the end all this will backfire under legal scrutiny and lawsuits like it did for Chicago and D.C.

    • My other thought is that at some point people will just ignore the law like they are doing in NY and CT. Or then again we may all just be doomed to using sticks and rocks after they have taken all our guns.

    • Closer to 750, as if that matters. And it can never get to zero since they haven’t figured out how to ban revolvers. Plus single action revolvers are roster exempt as are pistols more than 50 years old as long as they have a capacity of 10 rounds or less.

      • By the time they get it down to just revolvers and older weapons, the claim will shift to “see, these are not considered ‘modern’ and usable enough, gun owners won’t care all that much(*), so we just ban them, too.”

        They don’t play by rational rules.

        (*) And by that time, they will have conquered the Hearts and Minds of their voting block, and convinced them that “guns are not really needed” or something similar.

        They will find a way, is what I’m saying. Baby steps. They are patient. They are in it for the long game.

  6. Just think how much carnage a typical Muslim terrorist could create with a bolt action rifle and a fixed 30 round magazine.

    Sometimes the stupid is so strong it makes my stomach churn.

    • How about a Mossberg MVP? Bolt action with DETACHABLE mag. Comes in 7.62×51 and 5.56×45… which uses STANAG mags. Ruger American Rifle has detachable mags as well, if I remember correctly, in a bunch of calibers. Lots of others as well, I’m sure.

      Oh wait, did the bill say “semi-auto” or “rifle”? Onnacounta if it said “rifle” all bets are off and my point is moo.

    • Think of how much damage a cop would do. Just look at those poor newspaper delivery-women.

      Oh wait, the law doesn’t apply to pigs.

    • People who write those bills have only seen guns in movies. Maybe handled one at a press conference explaining how it’s a horrible thing (and then probably washed their hand with soap for two hours non-stop). Of course they write stupid laws.

      Case in point. The most recently proposed WA AWB classifies as “assault weapon” any semi-auto with a detachable mag that has a “barrel shroud”. It defines said shroud as:

      “A shroud attached to the barrel, or that partially or completely encircles the barrel, allowing the bearer to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned, but excluding a slide that encloses the barrel”

      Now anyone who has ever actually seen, much less fired, a rifle, knows that they have some sort of protection around the barrel for the non-trigger hand – it’s pretty much necessary by the definition of a rifle being a two-handed weapon (which is even enshrined in NFA and GCA). Previous AWBs have usually skirted this by saying that a forend/handguard is not a barrel shroud if it is “formed by an extension of the stock”, which is a roundabout way to say that grandpa’s hunting semi-auto with traditional furniture is not included. But that language is not present here.

      So in effect, this would ban most semi-autos, including ancient hunting Remingtons etc, excepting few nice guns that don’t have any forend at all, like AR-7 or Marlin 70PSS.

    • Let’s keep this tidbit of knowledge to ourselves. Once the Gun Grabbers realize this, they’ll want to take away bolt actions with detachable mags, also. SHHHHhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!

  7. IF California could outlaw & confiscate ALL of the center fired rifles in the state, there would still be “gun” violence because there will still be a gang problem. And when was the last time a gang hit used a rifle? You KNOW that would have been plastered all over the California news.

  8. How is that voluntary “hi capacity” magazine turn in working out? What makes them think their new legislation would be any different? Isn’t that the definition of insanity?

    • Actually, such measures will not slow down anything at all. There are equally deadly platforms available that are and will continue to be entirely legal in California.

      Case in point: all the enterprising spree killer has to do is purchase a lever action rifle in .44 Magnum and load the 10-round tube magazine with cartridges containing 300 grain hardcast lead bullets. Since each bullet will easily deliver mortal wounds to two adults (passing through both most likely), a single spree killer with that platform could easily kill 20 adults without reloading. And if that same spree killer targeted children or had a second identical rifle (and ammunition) slung over their back, they could easily kill 40 or more people in very short order without reloading.

      It is a fool’s errand to chase down every possible item that could be used to inflict mass casualties because the list of potential items is almost limitless … not to mention the fact that many items are integral to everyday life and would be impossible to “regulate” (e.g. matches, gasoline, trucks, chainsaws, etc.)

  9. After reading the bill the title should be amended to read register your assault rifle. What this bill does is make citizens who legally purchased a center fire rifle with a detachable magazine, pay to register it in the CA database. The left coast version of CT registration scheme. It classifies ALL rifles with a detachable magi zone as an assault rifle.

    • Actually, if you read the text, the regulated rifles are semiauto center fires, not bolt actions.

      And it is a registration AND ban. The ban is (1) no new semiauto rifles may be manufactured or sold (and this includes 80% lowers) and (2) the existing law as to assault weapons (which now will include all bullet button equiped ARs) bans their transfer or sale within the state. So any existing rifles must be sold out of state (or turned in).

      The proposal does have one, perhaps, unforseen circumstance. Under current law, registered assault weapons are not required to be retrofitted with a magazine locking device. Hence, it is arguable that anyone who registers their AR/AK may be able, legally, to remove the bullet button. Not that I volunteer to be a test case, but it is an issue.

      • Why would lowers not be sold? I already have a bolt action upper. Bolt action rifles are not touched with this ban. Actually any upper without a gas tube would not be semi-auto.

        • Lowers could not be sold because they are the actual “firearm” according to the ATF.

          As for semi-autos, not every semi-auto has a gas tube or even a piston: some semi-autos could use blowback (such as some pistol caliber carbines).

        • >> Lowers could not be sold because they are the actual “firearm” according to the ATF.

          For one thing, the ATF definition is not binding or even relevant for state laws, unless they specifically reference it.

          But even if it is, the law doesn’t apply to all firearms. It only applies to semi-auto firearms. Is a lower by itself semi-auto? I don’t think so – the usual legal definition of semi-auto, literally applied, would give a negative answer.

          >> As for semi-autos, not every semi-auto has a gas tube or even a piston: some semi-autos could use blowback (such as some pistol caliber carbines).

          In general, yes, but for an AR specifically (i.e. a fully populated 5.56 lower sans gas tube), no.

          I actually wonder about something else, though. I remember an article here on TTAG about how in UK, some smart guys have basically taken an AR, and modified the bolt hold open such that it is always on (i.e. even on a non-empty mags). So you fire a shot, and the bolt is locked in open position until you release it manually. Because it requires that manual operation for every shot, it’s not legally a semi-auto. But it’s much faster and easier to release the bolt on an AR than it is to cycle a bolt-action or even a lever-action; and if you use something like Magpul BAD lever, you can even do it without shifting either hand, just by shifting the trigger finger back and forth. So it can be fired nearly as fast as a semi-auto while not legally being one.

          I wonder when we’ll see that in CA. Pretty soon, looks like.

  10. What’s sad is, I know someone who lives in CA, a firearm owner, who has no problems with these “common sense” Draconian anti-2a state laws because these laws protect them against “extremists” (He’s not real specific who extremists are, not that it matters if they aren’t intent on following the law). Then he throws out we need restrictions because, “otherwise we would have nuclear weapons being sold to civilians”.

    Worst part is? He will habitually break his own states laws, like for example, having standard round magazines for his latest Glock or bringing in a non-compliant firearm into the State for himself. Because those laws against everyone else is ok, but applied to him are unjust, I suppose.

    • Why not? Airsoft and BB guns are already heavily regulated by the People’s Democratic Republik of Commiefornika. Besides, I’m sure every roll of caps has the “WARNING: This product contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm” label on them.

  11. Sooner or later terrorists are going to figure out that guns and bombs aren’t the way to kill the most with the least effort.

  12. This is exactly the goal: ban semi-auto rifles, and exactly the kind of case even the current wishy-washy SCT would take. I say, let them and Godspeed. If you live in CA, sorry you have to be the guinea pig for absurd socialism.

    Also- hopefully this will be backed up with some “Australian style” confiscation, so we can put that trope to bed too

  13. There’s somemore of that respect for the 2nd Amendment you hear about … Can’t you just feel it oozing out of them?

    • Well, in 2011, it was something less than or equal to 45, at least for “known rifle homicides.” If you want to assume that ALL of the “Unknown Firearm Type” were centerfire rifles, it was something less than or equal to 304.


      Note that Knives and “Other Weapons” together comprised 469 California homicides in the same year, so over 30% more than worst case killed with rifles.

      They are not solving a real problem. Rather, they are addressing a non-problem born of hysterical propaganda.

      (Just picked 2011 since that’s what came up first in the duckduck search).

  14. So, a person can own a Mil Spec AR-15 style rifle in .22LR, which doesn’t even currently require a bullet button, and what’s to keep a person from then ordering a complete upper, which isn’t a firearm, and swapping out uppers if the person planned on going on a murder spree?
    No, is it possible to ban AR style firearms, since they don’t even have to be semi-auto. No gas tube and they require manual reloading.
    Or, we change the fire control group and bolt carrier group so that one pull of the trigger fires, the bolt locks back, the second pull of the trigger, or a BAD level releases the bolt, and it’s no longer semi-auto.
    No matter what the law reads, all it could possible do is make it a crime for people who are not going to use the firearm for crimes, and anyone who is going to use the firearm for crimes can relatively easily modify it for such use.
    Ranges would be affected, criminal activity would not.

    • Xanthro, that AR is made and is sold in Europe. (England I believe?) I don’t recall who is making it but it is a version that the bolt locks back on each shot and a release button is pressed to load the next round.

  15. They already banned terrifying BB and pellet guns. Why not go “all in”? California is so “progressive” I’m sure they will go for it.

    2nd Amendment was never supposed to be up for popular referendum but California has proved that it can do what it wants and that liberal judges will rubber stamp it.

  16. We need to close the Law Enforcement LOOPHOLE that allows dangerous high-capacity semi-automatic assault pistols and rifles, acknowledged BY THE STATE as DANGEROUS to be owned and used by Law Enforcement Personnel both on and off duty. These dangerous assault weapons are responsible for more civilian deaths than all the ‘saturday night specials’ put together. Close the LEO LOOPHOLE!
    While we’re at it, close the MILITARY loophole as well. No reason ‘our troops’ should have weapons that are ILLEGAL in the countries they are occupying. NO REASON for military personnel to have high-capacity magazines that are easily switched out without a special tool. And what is with the EXPLOSIVES? So-called ‘military’ bombs are carried around by crazed militants in fatigues all over the planet in the name of “safety and security” What’s safe about claymours and grenades? Nobody every needed an explosive to bring peace! If we had JUST explained to the Japanese during WW2 that “guns are bad, bombs are bad, murder is bad” certainly we would not have needed to blow up 2 entire cities with high explosives. Daisy-cutters? Let’s just drop DAISIES and PANSIES and everything will be A-OK and right with the world!

    • Agreed! I want to see my local bureaucrat with a badge who masquerades as the county sheriff become apoplectic trying to hang on to his toys while not giving out any CC permits.

  17. Might not pass this time with brown in office but once Gavin newsome gets in there we’re screwed. I need to get out of this state.

    • Brown will indeed veto it. Newsome will do as he is told by Bloomberg and rush to sign it. He’s dumber than a box of his greasy hair.

  18. I guess I will have to invent a Rimfire 5.56/.223 and a new bolt for the crowd in CA. On second though, screw the communist state. Like a previous poster said, exile the two most liberal cities and retake the state.

    • There is already a pump-action AR (well it looks like an AR, it isn’t officially an AR mechanically I don’t think). There also is a 5.56/.223 bolt-action rifle.

      • The pump action AR is from Troy Industries in Massachusetts a slave state. They advertise it as a long gun alternative for restricted areas.

        Gun makers in slave states are becoming the primary developer and maker of less capable firearms you are “allowed” to have.

  19. When we get a legitimate federal government,they need to go after the state of california for violating all of it’s citizens civil rights concerning most of the constitution,these idiots are totally out of control and need to be fired,sued,and put on trial for being traitors to the US.Seriously,is california trying to become cuba’s twin? Do you have to be an illegal alien to get any justice in the state of california,or in the US for that matter? They need to go after a few more states,I guess new york would be next in line,not the state,the city. Will people ever get over the fact that they are going to lose material things they have accumulated over the years? Isn’t that what’s stopping people from taking action,the fear of losing a bunch of junk? I guess selling your soul has become the american way,give up all your freedoms so you can keep all your junk. Except for slavery,the Confederacy was right even though the civil war wasn’t fought over slavery and the Confederacy was run by a bunch of democrats.I think that’s the real reason liberals go after the Confederate battle flag and Confederate monuments all the time,they’re afraid someone’s child is going to want to know what these things stand for,once upon a time,the American people would take only so much shit off an oppressive government.

  20. California, where the revival of lever action rifles began – well, until they pull an Australia.

    Actually, what is CA law on lever actions?

    • No restrictions on lever guns in Cali.
      It’s a manually operated repeater.
      So it’s considered the same as a pump or bolt gun. I think the mares leg style guns do run afoul of an OAL Restriction? But guide and trapper configurations are OK
      Hmmm… A lever gun that takes 30 round AR Mags in 5.56 or M14 mags in .308.
      That would be neat… Then you could shoot spitzers out of it. Mount a red dot on it.
      Could be an Ultimate truck gun even in non restricted states

      • Only if you own pre-1991 mags. Since then it has been illegal to import or sell detachable mags of more than 10 rounds capacity for any firearm.

        Which reminds me. I was shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, that this idiot Harris said “We simply must do everything we can to keep dangerous, high capacity firearms off of our streets and out of our communities.” Ummm, wait a sec, there Kammy, ten rounds is “high capacity”? Uhh, since we can only have 10 round mags, that would would be every semiauto firearm in the state. And isn’t every firearm “dangerous”?

    • Pump action shotguns are banned in Australia. They recently tried to also ban lever action shotguns but a rare show of common sense occurred and we can still own them. Apparently the lever action 12 ga shotguns were “high powered”, “rapid fire” and “almost semi-automatic”. Lol.

      We can still own both pump action and lever action rifles.

  21. CA sunshine tax…we take your money and make you put up with unending stupidity. All for some consistently warm weather and regular sunshine and close proximity to the ocean.

    • Florida is a much better choice. They tend to do the opposite of California while still retaining the nice weather.

  22. Gun Violence blah blah blah.
    Common sense blah blah blah.
    Gun show loophole blah blah blah.
    For the children.

    There. I summarized every gun grabbing politician’s petition for more gun control.

    • One modification: just “loophole”, not “gun show loophole” (here, it’s the “bullet button loophole”). Otherwise–perfect!

  23. “My guess is that they’re going to use it as a hammer to systematically eliminate every semi-auto rifle in the state.”

    Yeah, a hammer to match their sickle [eye roll]

    Is it too late to give ’em back to Mexico? Kali for El Chapo, straight trade?

  24. I’ve said this before, Harris is one of the most dangerous Progressive Fascists. She is smart, articulate and telegenic. She’s also a vial, despicable excuse for a human being who like her pal in the White House was bathed in radicalism as a child. Interesting that she went to private schools all of her life just like him. I guess that the public schools in Oakland and Berkeley were for those who she now lords over.

    She’ll be a part of a democrat presidential ticket no later than 2024.

  25. Hey, shameless fascism is all the rage. When your fascist ends justify your shameless means, then anything, hell, everything is possible. The will to deliberately manufacture a crisis, designed solely to give legitimacy to brazen attempts at eroding civil rights, shows how bankrupt the Leftist ideologies truly are, which joyfully prey on the worst devils of our nature. If you’re a Leftist, now is the time to act, before the rising tide against Leftism sweeps away everything you have labored to accomplish. It’s a true perversion of the phrase, carpe diem.

  26. Obviously, since magazines will be illegal, belt fed devices would be the next option. I know of no limits for belt lengths. 1,000 rounds on one belt anyone?

  27. I don’t find AG Harris all that attractive, certainly not the best looking AG in the country. That honor goes to Florida AG Pam Bondi, who’s also a helluva lot smarter than Harris and who didn’t “date” her way into office like Harris.

  28. What we have now is a dick measuring contest between Kamala Harris, who’s behind this legislation, and Gavin Newsom, who’s behind the ammo registration and magazine confiscation ballot measure, both of which are nothing more than efforts to shore up their gun control “bona fides” for their gubernatorial run. If the rights of citizens get trampled in the process, oh well.

    • Not. Kamala has already announced that she is going to run for Boxer’s soon to be vacated senate seat. So Newsome’s run is probably secure, although I expect there will be a southern California challenger (Newsome hails from San Francisco), perhaps Senator DeLeon. [Either way we are screwed. Based on the last election, there isn’t a viable, high visibility Republican candidate.]

    • Correct on one count. These two are shoring up their support, especially with Bloomberg and other big donors.

      Where you’re wrong is their ultimate goals. Newsome will be Governor and Harris will be a US Senator. That has been decided. It from their that these two may come into competition for places on Presidential ballots. These two are key members of the democrat party bench. They’re the next generation of Obama acolytes and are very dangerous.

  29. The end game for all to see. Good luck-you’ll need it. I see MASSIVE civil disobedience-or WAR. AS the economy collapses. And Kamala ain’t cute…

    • For a while, “build parties” for milling 80% lowers was a very popular activity (until ATF shut down the practice), all of which resulted in unserialized lowers. I suspect that the building of such lowers continues with less sophisticated equipment. Further, up until January 1, 2015, there was no long gun registration, so there are a lot of unregistered serialized lowers running around too. This likely amounts to several millions of unregistered ARs and AKs. So noncompliance is a real possibility. On the other hand, no unserialized lower could safely be shot at any public range, as the noncompliance with the law will be obvious to casual inspection.

  30. Gun owners in California will generally not comply with this law. The City of Los Angeles already banned greater than ten round capacity magazines. To date, not a SINGLE magazine has been turned in, out of hundreds of thousands in citizen hands in LA. But what will suck is that they will bust people who are not obeying this unconstitutional edict and they will nail them to the wall as an example for the rest of us “gun clingers”. This will cement California’s de-evolution into a third world country where nobody obeys the laws and many will not enforce them either.

    I don’t think Brown will sign this or the other companion bill but Newscum will.

    • Good point about nailing anyone with too big a mag to the wall. The unintended side effect will be more dead cops since the calculation will be shoot a cop and maybe get away, versus very long term stay in jail. But maybe they can just make murder even more illegal.

  31. There might be a way this could get “compromised” or checked by a court, which could be that banning all “assault weapons” that use bullet buttons can stand. So want to own a standard AR-15 with a bullet button? Too bad. However, semiautomatic rifles with detachable magazines that are not labeled as assault weapons (no “military-style” features), remain legal. So for example, Ruger Mini-14, Ares SCR, etc…hopefully at worst, something like that would happen. That is what we have here in New York.

    • Read the proposed law. They are banning almost all semi-auto rifles. Features have nothing to do with it

      • Right – the whole list of ‘features’ is deleted, replaced by
        “(1) A semiautomatic centerfire rifle that does not have a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept no more than 10 rounds.”
        and, new definitions in subsection (d), including
        “(2) “Fixed magazine” means an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm in such a manner that the device cannot be removed without disassembly of the firearm action.”

      • But I mean in a court, it could be argued thus the utter arbitrariness of the term “assault weapon” and how they arbitrarily change it, how numerous rifles that were not “assault weapons” now would be labeled as such, and thus maybe a court would argue that the bullet button is “clearly a loophole” that can be outlawed, but they cannot outlaw all semiautomatic rifles.

  32. “Detachable magazines cost lives, and it is more important to save lives during future mass shootings than to be able to reload assault weapons in the blink of an eye.

    In other words – Individual “A” over here committed a crime with a firearm, so we the state, are going to limit you, individual “B,” who has nothing to do with individual “A” or their actions, from possessing semi-automatic firearms. We the state are adults, you the people are children, and we are going to nanny your a$$.

    “Detachable magazine” means an ammunition feeding device that can be removed readily from the firearm without disassembly of the firearm action.

    Next design: AR15 with large casting built in (similar to the .30-40 Krag) that holds rounds. Pull spring lock down, dump in 5.56 from stripper clip, release spring.

    Or –

    AR15 with upper & lower takedown pin with large ring installed (like the firing pin ring on a Swiss K31). Insert detachable magazine into AR15. Fire until empty. Pull takedown pin ring. Press magazine release button inside lower receiver (with action open and disassembled). Magazine ejects. Push upper and lower back together, insert pin, slap in new detachable magazine.

    Or –

    Say WTF! Sling your rifle, exit your house alongside with your neighbors, and walk to the capitol building – everyone. Thousands of people with their guns slung on their backs – walking to the capitol building to protest. Tell your sheriff, tell your friends, tell your neighbors, tell your city councils, rally together, and tell your representatives you are ready to divide California into separates states so you don’t have to eat the feces ejected from the bowels of coastal cities.

  33. Actually, 2 bills – the already mentioned AB 1663 (, and AB 1664 (

    Text display note: in CA bills from the legislative web site, BLACK text is current law, RED STRIKEOUT text is what would be deleted, and BLUE ITALIC text is text that would be added.

    Confusingly, amended versions of the bill use that same set of conventions, but in relation to the previous version of the bill.

  34. Mr. and Mrs. Kalifornia Turn Them All In!!! That smug little authoritarian really makes me ill… How about elevating your career with real achievements… I guess that’s too much to ask from a petulant little fast tracker like Kamala though… Just double-down on the Difi tripe and you’re in…

    Thinking this is a bridge too far… If they pass this, there’s no way it’s going to stand. Hoping for a domino effect when it dose fail (if passed)… Like stopping the 10 round mag limit stupidity for instance or giving the detachable mag ban a solid smack down in its entirety… I may be dreaming but this is far from over… At the very least it’s another rally cry to the still somewhat free States… Harris is taking her attack on the 2A to a whole new level with this… If there’s a sleeping giant still in the vicinity someone please tell him to the wake the f*ck up!!!

  35. You can’t depend on the courts in California when the people you elect don’t respect the court rulings.
    The only thing that will change California is a massive re-education on the importance of the second amendment and how it represents liberty.

    The black Panther open carry protests in the 1960s were in the tradition of free speech protests in the past. On that issue the Panthers were right.
    Don’t get distracted by governor Reagan and the Mumford amendment. President Reagan became a CCW believer after the assassination attempt on his life.
    He carried a 38 revolver after that.

    It is a civil right to own and carry guns. Every gun owner should be using the term civil right when talking about guns. The language needs to be changed. People in California need to use the 1st amendment public protest and conduct empty holster demonstrations.

  36. The important takeaway is this: This is the Democrats vision of the 2nd amendment.

    If you vote Democrat, you support a law like this for your city/state/country, period. If you are a gun owner who votes Democrat, you had better be ready to hand in all of your semi automatic guns, because that’s what they are after.

    Yes, they really are coming for your guns.

    Don’t doubt for minute that a national law like this would not be proposed if the Democrats were in power right now, and don’t doubt that a law like this would be ruled constitutional if put before a SCOTUS judge nominated by a Democrat president.

  37. effectively making the entire state a gun free zone.

    … well… for the rest of country, our crime rate will go down and CA’s crime rate will skyrocket as criminals venture west into CA seeking easy prey.

    it’ll be a modern day gold rush to CA

    like shooting fish in a barrel so to speak.

  38. I think it’s high time that CA gunners invoked Thomas Jefferson’s “The tree of Liberty” against the tyrants within the state.

    • Do you volunteer to be the first?

      Or I know! It could be a campaign, like the Free State Project! Sign up your name to join the rebellion. The moment 10,000 people sign, the rebellion begins.

      Either way, I’m fetching the popcorn.

      • Fetch and watch, OK.

        I’m NOT saying youre doing this, int19h, I’m just speaking in general:

        Other people will tell CA residents to, quote, “Just MOVE.”

        Once they can get away with it in CA, they can get away with anywhere else in the USA.
        “But i’m in TEXAS!!” will only shield people from this if you plan on tilting over in the next 10 years.

        I’m not in CA. I have a lot of pro-gun friends who are. And I’m tired of people doing their little “it could never happen to MY cowboy state!” crap.

        The more people who say “It could NEVER happen HERE!” assist it… eventually *HAPPENING THERE.*

        Don’t “Just MOVE”, get YOUR ASS MOVING instead.

        • Not really what I had in mind. I’m just tired of all the “MOLON LABE!!!” people who are very vocal about it on teh intertubes, using any reason real or imaginary to pitch their “oh it’s almost time to start shooting right now” line… while preaching to the choir.

          But it’s even worse when people just casually suggest that it’s time for others should take up arms, like the guy above did.

      • Nothing casual about it int19h but CA gun owners will have to decide for themselves were their line in the sand is. I too am sick of the MOLON LABE from gun owners who will go “cold dead hands” all day long but refuse to send a letter, email, fax or make a phone call to their representatives because they don’t want to get on a “list”. Personally I believe CA will go quietly into the night because freedom just isn’t worth fighting for anymore, it’s just too much like hard work.

  39. Yeah, they fought. They didn’t talk about how awesome they’ll be when they do that (any time now! you just wait! as soon as Clinton Obama Hillary makes her final move!) in a giant circle jerk.

    Who is fighting now? The Bundys? And how’s pushing back the forces of tyranny goes on that front line? Oh, sorry, they forgot to stock up on enough beer and Cheetos to last them through the siege, so that campaign is doomed.

  40. You’re never gonna convince President Obama’s not-so-secret crush.

    So, use developments in CA as an example, not for the agitprop agenda-mongers, but for the persuadable middle.

    “Why are you guys against this simple, limited thing that may do some good? Seems kind of extreme of you.”

    “Well, CA never ‘banned’ firearms. You just can’t get any there. Over time the camel’s nose is just a wedge for the rest of the beast … at least that’s what seems to always happen. Or DC.

    So, it ain’t honestly about ‘safety’, it ain’t honestly ‘just this one thing’ and it ain’t honestly like they care what you, I, or anybody else think, prefer, or have to live with.”

  41. First of all kamela you ignorant traitor, the “bullet button’ device was FORCED upon Californians in an idiotic attempt to make it harder for law abiding citizens to change magazines. Set an example bitch an fire your body guards, security people and focus on how El Chapo wound-up with a Fast and Furious 50 cal. SUPER ASSUALT RIFLE. Bitch. If guns kill people then pencils misspell words. Service to the people as AG is not a frickin beauty contest. Traitors like yourself need to summarily FIRED and stripped of all benefits for TREASON just like Obama, Hilary etc. How quickly these govn. elitists forget what happened to Mussolini when the people got tired of his crap.

  42. First of all kamela you ignorant traitor, the “bullet button’ device was FORCED upon Californians in an idiotic attempt to make it harder for law abiding citizens to change magazines. Set an example bitch an fire your body guards, security people and focus on how El Chapo wound-up with a Fast and Furious 50 cal. SUPER ASSUALT RIFLE. Bitch. If guns kill people then pencils misspell words. Service to the people as AG is not a frickin beauty contest. Traitors like yourself need to be summarily FIRED and stripped of all benefits for TREASON just like Obama, Hilary etc. How quickly these govn. elitists forget what happened to Mussolini when the people got tired of his crap.

  43. One thing for sure, if they take our self defense guns away those liberals will go with us when the enemy is landing n our beaches. I won’t protect their butts. They can throw rocks! Gungrabbers need to move away, like Canada.


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