Trump suppressor silencer atf
(Evan Vucci/AP)
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After the weekend’s shootings in El Paso and Dayton, President Trump addressed the nation this morning. In response to calls from both Democrats and Republicans to do something (as well as being blamed directly by some for the shootings), he said that . . .

Our nation is overcome with shock, horror and sorrow.

He called the shootings an attack on our nation and a crime against humanity. Trump then vowed “to act with urgent resolve.”

The President said that he’s been in contact with the Attorney General and the FBI director and condemned racism, bigotry and white supremacy. He noted that the internet has provided a dangerous avenue to radicalize individuals. “The perils of the internet and social media cannot be ignored and will not be ignored.”

He said “We must seek real, bipartisan solutions…we must do a better job of acting on early warning signs.”

He then said that we must . . .

  • Work with social media companies to detect mass shooters before they strike.
  • Stop the glorification of violence, including gruesome video games. Cultural change is hard, he said.
  • We must reform our mental health laws to better identify mentally disturbed individuals to give people treatment and, when necessary, involuntary confinement.
  • Enact red flag laws with due process.
  • Use the death penalty for those convicted of mass murder.

In closing he noted that his administration has enacted Fix NICS legislation and outlawed bump stocks. Despite earlier tweets that appeared to indicate support for “stronger background checks,” he didn’t mention so-called universal background checks. That may be due to the fact that virtually every mass shooter in history has purchased the gun(s) used legally.

The big news here for gun owners is the President’s support for a so-called red flag laws or gun violence restraining orders. These laws allow firearms to be taken from individuals who are deemed to be a danger to themselves or others.

The problem with these laws is that they rarely provide due process protections for the targets of the orders. Depending on the language, family, friends or even co-workers can ask for confiscation and the gun owner frequently isn’t informed until they get a knock on their door from police.

It’s only after the fact that they can argue for the return of their firearms in a subsequent hearing. The devil is in the details as to how these laws have been written in various states around the country.

Trump didn’t specifically propose a national red flag law, only his support for the laws in general. Whether that means he’d support a federal level red flag law isn’t clear.

Also don’t look for Trump to get any credit for his support for a red flag law from, well, anyone. Democrats and the civilian disarmament industry are probably already tweeting their outrage that he didn’t call for other steps such as universal background checks, a new federal “assault weapons” ban, or his failure to call for Congress to reconvene to consider gun control bills that have already been introduced.




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    • Speaking of ERPO laws, a co-worker of mine with whom I’ve worked for about two decades has caused many problems for others within the company over the years. Now she’s about to retire, and an unfortunate side-effect to her announcement is that a few of us she doesn’t like (including me) are choosing to be completely silent, avoiding her until she retires and absorbing her comments and behavior. And then we need to hold our breath for six months afterward.

      Why? Because CA Red Flag law – recently enhanced and expanded, thanks Dems (sarc) – allows for any person with whom you’ve worked for the past six months to file an ERPO complaint against you, and there’s absolutely nothing you can do when the LEOs show up at your door with a warrant to search your residence and remove any guns. Then you’ll have to expend your own time and money to fight it in court and try to get your guns back.

      Pure unconstitutional violation of your 2nd, 4th, 6th, and 7th Amendment rights. All in the hands of one vindictive co-worker.

      This infatuation with Red Flag/ERPO laws across the nation will not last forever. Once a series of lawsuits spearhead their way up the ladder to SCOTUS, they’ll be knocked down. They’re just too obviously unconstitutional. Unfortunately, we’ll be dealing with them in the meantime, and that could be several years.

      • For those of in states that don’t have these things we need to contact our legislators to oppose these for that reason and urge some kind of penalty for people who enact these for vindictive reasons, perhaps $1,000 per day plus any legal fees associated and cost of any damage to come from whatever department was entrusted with stealing your property.

      • Sounds like you need to turn her in for one first. Take any remotely hostile thing she’s said and use it.

      • Sounds like the old days of communism. You must stay silent to protect yourself from the snitch that will inform the government about you being a threat.

        Good ol’ Murica. Land of the free, home of the brave.

      • “and there’s absolutely nothing you can do when the LEOs show up at your door with a warrant to search your residence and remove any guns”
        US code 18 242 makes it legal to use deadly force on a public servant, who is trying to deprive a Citizen of their rights under color of law.The Second Amendment is meant to be invoked, to defend against tyranny by law.
        A rifle and standard capacity magazines would stop the state thugs from coming into your home.
        Prohibition of alcohol taught Americans how to deal with government sanctioned thugs, you make it dangerous for them to come to work and at their homes, and then they become Constitutional supporting Americans again.

        • In theory, yes. But in reality, any LEOs (at least here in SoCal, I can’t speak for other localities) suit up and act in force regarding any situation involving potential guns at a residence. I’m sure they’ll be fully aware that a private citizen will be thoroughly unhappy with the sight of men coming to his home to remove him and search his premises to deprive him of his property. They will not come to your door in normal uniforms to perform a knock-and-talk.

          Even if you went all John Wick on them and neutralized an entire 8-member SWAT team as they infiltrated your house, the SO of the bunch would have certainly called in for backup and aerial oversight. Then you’d have thirty angry cops defending their thin blue line and not caring one whit about the unconstitutionality of the original warrant. Their tear gas and/or burn down your home.

          You know this isn’t an exaggeration. The only way for true change to happen is for such a standoff to be streamed live via the defending homeowner directly to the Web (bypassing the MSM). And you’d have to be willing to die as a martyr for the cause. How many of us are willing to place our wives and children in that danger?

          This isn’t an excuse. It’s just the reality of things. Not an easy thing to navigate.

        • That’s not what it says. It states there are penalties meted out by the government to those that do these things. Nowhere does it give a free pass to use any force to keep it from happening.

          How you choose to react during an event like this is your own business.

        • …..”The only way for true change to happen is for such a standoff to be streamed live via the defending homeowner directly to the Web (bypassing the MSM). …”

          A very valid point. Would have to get it out on a platform that won’t block or delete the feed and enough viral output to spread it quickly.

          After New Zealand and a couple of others, major platforms are on the look -out though.

        • “Go ahead. Shoot a couple cops. See how that ends for ya.”

          A right nobody’s willing to die for isn’t much of a right.

          • “A right nobody’s willing to die for isn’t much of a right.”

            That may be true, but…

            Dead people forfeit all their rights.

      • We, in NY, are in the same boat with these blatantly unconstitutional RFLs. I have the same hope that they will get to SCROTUS and be crushed, but until them we have to walk on egg shells around all the snowflakes.

        • I thought I heard Kavanaugh say he supports red flag laws. I know the AG does.

          I wouldn’t depend on the government to return the power back to the people because they don’t believe in doing that. This is why once a law is passed it’s almost impossible to get rid of it even when Republicans are in full control.

          Even if the courts wants to do the right thing, it will take many years and convictions to get there.

          Who wants to live 15 years of silence in a country with a law recognizing free speech? I can tell you — from personal experience — that it isn’t a good feeling not being able to inform the people of the truth.

      • Ease up Haz, the law has only been proposed, but neither passed nor signed by the Greaser. It is currently on suspense in the Senate until after the summer recess. If it goes into effect, it will not be until September 1, 2020. Moreover, this retiree would have to get the approval of the employer before filing. “A coworker of the subject of the petition, if they have had substantial and regular interactions with the subject for at least one year and have obtained the approval of the employer.” I have no idea where you get this six months post retirement authority; there is no such language in the proposed statute.

        • Interesting. Thanks for the update. This is different from the text I’ve read concerning CA ERPO law.

          CA’s penal code is a veritable labyrinth of code, a shifting sand. It’s a challenge just to keep up with it.

      • Because Shotgun Joe (‘nobody needs an AR’) is a better choice for gun owners?

        • Tulsi Gabbard could cause some problems if she can stick around long enough. The Donnie will lose several states if he throws in the with the gun ban lobby. I could see Tennessee, AL, AR, Mo, KS going against him like they did George Herbert Walker Bush because he was for the Clinton Ban before Clinton was elected. Furthermore, Florida, Texas, and Arizona would be in play as well. His rust belt miracle from 2016 won’t be able to help him.

        • BTW, Shotgun Joe is very shakey and if the DNC figures out how The Donnie takes it on the chin from flipping on gun control, they could pull a surprise. Don’t forget they play with super delegates.

      • That was the goal here; carve off a sizable leg of Trump’s support. Trumps in a jam, support the 2A people and he gets roasted for not caring about gun violence victims. Try to ride the fence a bit and he gets roasted by the 2A people.
        I hate incremental gun control as much as anyone. But this was the dems plan: to splinter support. The dems know outside this they lose 2020 in a big way. If they get RFLs, that’s a bonus. Turn on Trump and you just gave the progs what they wanted.

        • Your logic is correct. Trump is in the same position that Obama found himself in during his second term after a series of massacres….. “DO SOMETHING”! The public screams. It’s a no win situation. I’m not happy with Trump and the unilateral “bump stock” ban. No matter what you think of the pieces of plastic or metal (I had a Fostech) it was patently wrong and illegal for him to ban a firearms accessory by Executive Order. It was wrong and disappointing of him when asked by Piers Morgan about silencers (and by the way, what the fuck was POTUS thinking even going on that idiot gun hater’s show?) and Trump answered “I don’t like them and will be looking into it”… He is rapidly showing what a fat, soft city boy he really is – what next? Perhaps an endorsement for soy drinks? Perhaps he can craft a “Red Flag” law that will attack the problem at the roots and guarantee peace of mind to the rest of us but I’m not holding my breath. I still have a psycho ex-wife who totally lost everything during the divorce who could invent a lie about me and like most DV laws, the law would have to act and “Do Something”, at least at first until I fought it with facts and documents I have.
          I will not be shooting the first police officers that drive up to my house. That is a stupid response and you will not have much of a life to enjoy or protect after that. Some of you may not have families or wives or girlfriends and can fantasize about what you will do after a decade of GTA and Socom and whatever else they play nowadays…

      • Watch what Trump DOES, do not worry much about what he says on this (guns) topic. He LOVES to send mixed signals, misleading signals, and keep his adversaries confused, off-balance.

        No matter how annoyed we may get with Trump ( and he has been annoying me quite a bit, lately), there is NO CHANCE that we would get any support from a Democrat, especially not the left-wing clown show currently pedaling their tricycles and honking their horns toward the primaries.

        • I think you have a point. If something is proposed and can’t pass both houses then Congress is to blame.

          … Mitch McConnell will not let any legisltion get to the floor of the Senate between now and the 2020 election that doesn’t pass muster with Kentucky’s very conservative, 2nd Amendment friendly base as he is up in 2020.

      • Will you then be supporting Biden, Warren, Mayor Pete, Harris? Who do you prefer since you’re off the Trump train? Do you think any of those will be better for your gun rights? Get real, he’s the only choice; warts and all.

        • Need I remind you that the people who would normally stand up against this are all sleeping through trump. There’s a reason reagan banned machine guns and got away with it still being loved by the republicans. Put a Democrat in office and all these people crying tread on me harder daddy will be out there stomping on this red flag garbage and any republican siding with them is on the unemployment list. At this point I wish we had a Democrat just so people would fight this garbage.

          • “At this point I wish we had a Democrat just so people would fight this garbage.”

            Winning by losing; interesting concept. Been tried before, without success, but it always remains a popular belief.

    • “Enact red flag laws with due process.” (I also heard the president live.)

      If complete due process is followed the ERPOs wouldn’t be all that onerous. The fact that he stipulated “due process” seems to be lost on many. Observing such would mean none of the other Constitutional protections would be violated, and it would put a much larger burden on officials seeking ERPOs.

      It’s true that there are states that appear to be circumventing the US Constitution with ERPOs but that is not what Trump suggested this morning. When someone makes threats over and over on internet forums, social media and the like, it shouldn’t take a decent prosecutor long to at least put together a case. People here, on the one hand, sit around and bitch that so and such shooter provided ample warnings beforehand yet officials did nothing, then decry it when someone does try to act. How it all comes about is the issue- if enough evidence is presented in a hearing which would adhere to Constitutional protections and if laws are also in place to punish those who would use protection orders of any kind as a form of harassment or punishment, with stiff penalties for attempting to do so, I think it could work. I know we can’t have it both ways- complain about knowledge by officials ahead of time yet not allowing them to act. I still believe it would be a better solution to use the normal 72 hour hold on someone making outrageous or dangerous claims or threats rather than round up the person’s property first. This is done all the time in most states where one threatens suicide, for example. Take the individual into protective custody, then prove he/she/it is a hazard to self or others in the general public. If they can’t make the case in the 72 hours the person is released. No property is confiscated, and making that case can be quite difficult. Getting back property of any kind is always a tough one.

      I have to wonder how many of those around TTAG and other sites would be making a lot of the statements they do if things weren’t anonymous…

      • AND mandate that the plaintiff pay all legal fees if the charges are dismissed…maybe even pay treble legal fees. We have to make certain such laws cannot be weaponized against us.

      • EPROs are pre-crime punishment. Never considered an American principle, and certainly not something permitted in the federal or state constitutions of the founders.

          • “Why would you oppose using red flag laws against the Crips?”

            I would endorse laws that declare people with gang tats “outlaw”, and executing then without trial. But….who would seriously try to serve an EPRO on a Crips member?

            Still and all, pre-crime punishment is too dangerous a concept to let loose. If the theory behind EPROs is that someone will do serious bodily harm, or kill, that should be sufficient justification to issue an arrest warrant. Think about it…victims of domestic abuse have been personally threatened with grievous bodily harm or death. Such threats are crimes in and of themselves. So….rather than an EPRO, issue an arrest warrant, and put those persons through the full legal process, which protects the potential victim, and protects the rights of the individual charged.

    • As it always does following these sorts of events, however, even after posting the direct quote the writer neglected to emphasize what Trump emphasized: “…red flag laws WITH DUE PROCESS.”

      Those three words make all the difference.

  1. You can’t have red flag laws with due process. If you arrest someone for doing or planning something violent they already become prohibited. Red flag laws are soviet anti due process tyranny.

    It’s more centralization of government power and abuse of innocents.

      • With evidence. That’s the problem. If you have evidence you don’t need new red flag laws. Not saying warrant systems have never been abused either.

        • I agree! So why isn’t law enforcement doing their job? Why not work toward more prevention? When you call the police and say someone wants to kill me, they say, “Yawn…..Uhmm go to court and get an order.”

          I heard a new either state Atty Gen or DA list how she was reforming criminal prosecution. Among the list was to stop prosecuting threats. The reason the red flag laws calls are increasing is the current laws in place aren’t being used by the system.

        • Yeah. That’s the problem. It will just be used on anyone who has ever been on depression meds or had tried committing suicide as a teen or an ex wife making up lies. The bar for confining people, making them prohibited and such will endlessly be pushed.

          I am in illinois. They let hard core criminals go way to easily. Remember those teens that tortured the mentally challenged kid?

          I knew people that wanted them let off the hook. They would hands down support red flag laws that meant because someone was on depression meds or made a mistake in their past though had their guns confiscated. We already have laws on the books.

          If we made red flag laws that actually followed due process they would be redundant. I don’t believe for one second that is ever what will be passed.

          My worry is the gun community will throw people under the bus. mental illness does not mean you should lose your rights. It will only mean people who have a problem will not seek help because they could lose their rights. We already saw that happen with Obamas infringements of making veterans seeking help at the VA become prohibited.

      • Hope you are correct but our governor, whom I do like, was not defending constitutional carry. I am concerned that he will cave to political whim and change his stance. Trump has stated at his rallies that he defends our second amendment rights but I am still waiting for this to happen. I am not a never Trumper, I voted for him and he has done great things for the country. Hopefully he ties national red flag laws to immigration reform like he said, this would insure that no action would be taken.

      • Exactly. The idea of these so-called ERPOs is abhorrent but the pearl clutching from our side just isn’t warranted. He didn’t say a single thing new today.

      • “I will never let you down.” -Donald Trump to NRAAM 2016

        I guess since Cox backed Red Flag laws too, he probably thinks he’s keeping his end of the bargain.

      • Trump talk and talks and talks. It’s his MO. Wait to see if anything comes of this.

  2. Already happening in the H.R. 1585 and S7 introduced by Senator Marco Rubio and gun reform just announced by President Trump

  3. When your property can be seized, and you arrested for something you “might do” it’s tyranny. Minority Report Science Fiction.

    • Un. Cons. Ta. 2. Shun. Al.
      But, we all know this is gonna fly anyhow. How do we know? Because feelz. When are we gonna make the 2nd great again???

    • The older NRA member thinks ERPOs are not gun confiscation powers. They actually believe there is due process of law.

      Let’s not forget that America is supposed approach the individual as “innocent until proven guilty.” Turning someone into a felon without a conviction is a perversion of law.

      Giving government workers the power to confiscate guns is undoubtedly tyranny.

      The ERPO idea came out of California and the gun confiscation groups. They were one of the first states to give themselves such powers. It’s now advocated by the NRA and Republicans.

      I think the NRA took down their video in support of gun confiscation after Trump’s speech! Damage control.

    • BIG mistake. The red flag laws result in the confiscation of arms, BUT DO NOT RESULT IN AN ARREST. This is a CIVIL, NOT A CRIMINAL proceeding. The police are only involved in confiscating the firearms, not obtaining the order, although most of the red flag laws I have read also allow the police to seek one–but they don’t.

      You only have to worry about arrest if you have committed a crime. Being a danger to oneself or others is not a crime. The police in every state I know of have the authority to “detain” an individual and take that person to a mental health facility for” evaluation and treatment,” and possible involuntary admission when that person is a threat to him/herself others, and do not need red flag laws to do so.

      • If it’s not a criminal proceeding, why are the cops involved in it? Let the plaintiff take me to court, get a judgement against me, and come collect my guns.

        The moment cops get involved, it becomes a criminal proceeding. This logic is on par with Civil Asset Forfeiture..which also only ever seems to involve cops. No random person gets to find thousands of dollars in someone else’s possession and just take it when that person can’t explain why they have it.

  4. …And here it is…Freedom dies with thunderous applause….Didn’t I say it’s all about “Authoritarianism…” Both political parties appear to be one in the same…And more and more, this has the footprint of a One-World Global Governance…At the expense of Freedom and Liberty, why…Because nobody in the general public can be trusted according to the government…Soon you WON’T be able to post on TTAG because you might trip a “National RED FLAG” because YOU were politically incorrect!

    • Google and other tech companies have AI that scans videos, images and text. They can censor lives streams and chats in real time. They can identify people and weapons in videos and images with their recognition software.

      Tech companies also spy on your private conversations using things like security cameras, home assistant devices and cellphones. The NSA does the same thing. Even the CIA/NSA used smart TVs to spy on people.

      As of now it’s technologically possible for tech companies to help the government confiscate guns using their AI to locate the people and weapons. Facebook and Google have what is necessary.

      • Exactly correct, and POTG intentionally post pictures of themselves with their weapons on their Facebook page, fascinating.

        This is the glorification of guns and worship of weapons that I have spoken of.

        POTG who post photos of their weapons on their Facebook page are providing the intelligence gathering function all by themselves, but their ego and vanity force them to post their selfie’s.

        They should’ve listen to grandma. ..

        “Fools’ names, like fools’ faces, are often seen in public places.”

        “Vanity of vanities, all is vanity”

        • When I used to work with recognition software it was very basic, at least what the public had. We used it to scan images/videos and pull the text. It allowed us to create a transcription and time code. At times we had to correct the software when it got confused about what it was seeing, but it was mostly automated.

          Now the recognition software has vastly improved in recent years. It can scan videos and images real time and alert the user upon detection. We can now use software to detect guns and identify people in the frame.

          Google uses this AI software to censor content without the need for humans. They scan videos for things like swastikas and other prohibited symbols and speech. The software automatically flags the video/channel for demonetization, removal, bans, etc. You then have to appeal to a human to manually review what the software did.

          Google has setup the AI software to censor right wing and conservative content. They have white listed other channels from this AI, such as all the corporate media channels. Part of the software recommends white listed content to the user and pushes black/grey listed content away from recommendation and search results. Google gives out a list of prohibited speech/words that can help you self censor in order not to trigger the AI negatively.

          The older generation thinks you need a vast amount of people to conduct such a “conspiracy” and it would be impossible to keep them all silent. Well, software has replaced the need for many humans and it has filtered undesirable candidates out prior to hiring. There are “departments” for different software development that inherently creates compartmentalization.

          • The older generation knows more than you think. The secret of the F-117 was kept secret for a decade by fighter pilots, people who wanted everyone to know about their cool airplanes and other toys. The older generation knows about exception handling, and how to apply it.

            We also know a conspiracy needs only two people “in the know”. The rest is done by the unwitting.

        • “This is the glorification of guns and worship of weapons that I have spoken of.”

          Does posting pictures of caught fish amount to glorification of something, or other? Or pictures of car owners sitting on, or in their prize car?

          “POTG who post photos of their weapons on their Facebook page are providing the intelligence gathering function all by themselves..”

          That may be foolish, but foolishness is not a synonym for “glorification”?

        • Sam, my concern is for the internal motivation to post the pictures, especially those that feature the individual pointing a gun at the camera. Or the individual in full tactical gear glaring at the camera, weapon in hand.

          Search pictures trouble many regular citizens, they wonder about the thoughts going on in the head of the individual posting those pictures.

          • “Search pictures trouble many regular citizens, they wonder about the thoughts going on in the head of the individual posting those pictures.”


            Thought crime is for novels and thrillers, not real justice. Inferring thought from a picture is bordering on clairvoyance. People should be suspected because of a picture few really understand? Let me tell you…look at any picture of mine that might be posted, and you will be convinced you saw my wanted poster hanging in the post office. From that, what would you conclude I was thinking? Have me over for beers, and you wouldn’t want to join any club that would have me as a member (neither would I).

            Now, post my picture, holding any firearm, accompanied by a narrative that declares my intention to do harm to others, whole ‘nuther story….sorta. Used to have a T-shirt that proclaimed “Kill ’em all. Let God sort them out.” From that, what would you conclude? Would you have me arrested for what I might, somehow, someway, someday do? Would you conclude that I was glorifying murder?

  5. Someone please show me when Libertarians Liberals and the Left supported locking up and forcing a dangerously mentally ill person to be medicated?

    After the Joyce Brown case in 1987 The Three L’s celebrated the right of a mentally ill person to be homeless. Fast forward decades later and now you have the mentally ill defecating in the streets in San Francisco and tent cities of homeless all up and down the West Coast.

    The there L’s believe you have a right to urinate and defecate in public.

    I believe President Trump just lost the gun vote. He certainly lost my vote if this is his intention to pass red flag laws.

    However no one wants to really ask the questions how did we get to this point in our society???
    I believe it’s because we are “tolerant”. Instead of being intolerant and not putting up with anti-social social destructive Behavior.

    Nearly all of these recent Mass shooters were known to the authorities prior to their mass murders. And yet there is no mechanism in the justice system that have them arrested and placed in custody.

    Because they have rights? Then you should have no problem coming before a microphone and stating that mass murders are just something we have to get used to.

    I know Libertarians of already publicly said and promoted the idea of giving free shotguns to homeless people.

    • There are already mechanism to use for problems like mass shooters. However, that isn’t the most important part because it’s not a solution it’s a reactionary approach. Also, the government has no intention to do their job because failing allows for more power to be attained for themselves, as America does not hold their government accountable for failure.

      We need to return to a high standard of morals via culture/parenting. The older generations have done a very bad job at parenting, they created the collectivist snowflake safe space generations. Look at the age of all these people causing riots and doing mass shootings — they are the kids of the previous generations. Where are their parents?

      • I remember this story/vid. Love it. Kudos to that mom.

        If anyone recalls, the news reporter caught up with both them, and the son later admitted he was glad his mom did what she did and showed she cared about his behavior.

        Kids will *not* crumple up and wither away if you show tough love.

      • Agree. When did it become a rule that every father has to call his son “Buddy?” If you pay attention, every single young white father calls their son “Buddy.”
        “C’mon, Buddy, it’s OK! You tried, Buddy! Don’t cry, Buddy, winning isn’t everything. You have to go to school, Buddy. Get in the Prius, Buddy. Here’s some ice cream, Buddy. Eat your Happy Meal, Buddy.”
        That’s what’s wrong with these a$%holes. Too much “Buddy,” not enough ass kicking.

        • Ugh, you just reminded me of my brother-in-law. That’s the exact nickname he used for his little 5-yr-old, and how he speaks to him. No spanking, no time-outs, nothing. The kid is my nephew by marriage, but is the #1 wimpiest little crybaby I’ve ever encountered in my entire life. I always have to walk out of the room during family gatherings when the father starts up his “what’s the matter, Buddy?” routine.

        • I’m telling you, it’s epidemic. Pay attention to fathers/young sons in public settings, Buddy this, Buddy that. I got news for ’em, he aint you’re Buddy. You’re supposed to be the BOSS!

      • She Problably went to jail for child abuse. At least in my state..She would have been charged as an abusive parent…Dept of Soc Svss would have been their…Yup…My stats is a LibTARD state….

      • user1
        I was surprised this mother wasn’t brought up on charges by the tyrannical city and state government of maryland. I have no problem with parents physically disciplining their children. Also known as spanking. Sadly parents have been arrested for spanking their own children.

        And sadly the three L’s support the welfare Industrial Complex. They replaced the father and his guns with government $$$ and the guns of a big city police department. The problem is the sexually Liberated only care about getting their rocks off. And they want everyone else to do the same. So they support single motherhood by subsidizing a woman having multiple children from different men.

        Memphis Man Owes Child Support to 15 Women; Has 20+ Kids

        When a white man does it the press treats him with humor. These single mothers are racking up quite a lot of the welfare $$$ aren’t they???

        When it comes to sexual gratification the words accountability and personal responsibility never leave the lips of the three L’s. But the rest of us will have to deal with the social repercussions. There are very few men who (legally) live in “gun free zone” public housing projects. Mostly single mothers and their children.

    • You know, I see you spout a LOT of bull about libertarians, and I let it go because I know there’s nothing Ic can say that won’t make you call me a progressive leftard commie kitten hater, but I can’t let this one go.

      No libertarian.. ever… is going to demand giving free shotguns to homeless people.

      Because who is going to pay for those shotguns? The manufacture has to pay for labor and materials, and forcing a business to provide work to “the public” is 100% the opposite of “libertarian”. I mean, we get shit all the time because of Atlas Shrugged, which is about exactly that.

      Will taxpayers pay for it? What if they don’t? Will they be fined? And arrested if they don’t pay? And jailed if they resist? And murdered if they fight tooth and nail during their incarceration? Because that’s how the government uses its monopoly on force to make people do things. Which libertarians are, by definition, against for anything save hurting people and taking their stuff. It’s right in the name.

      Now if someone or group of someones wants to VOLUNTARILY buy a bunch of shotguns and give them out, that’s a different story.

      But then when the hobo with a shotgun does what a mentally deranged drug addict with a weapon is going to do, it will be entirely just to ask what other bad ideas they have that are going to get more people killed, and what we, with out monopoly on force, are going to do about it.

      What’s your alternative? Don’t let people do what they want? Don’t hold people responsible for their actions? Force people to do things your way at the point of a massive criminal justice system?

      Because that’s democrat government 101.

      • BOOM the only thing Chris demonstrated in his rambling is he knows jack and zilch about libertarians.

      • Although I am no longer libertarian, you hit the nail right on the head. When I was involved, what you described is pretty much the view held by everyone I knew.

        I’m not going to pick on Chris. Although him and I disagree on a lot of things, I don’t doubt that he has liberty at heart. However, what I think he unintentionally leaves out of some of his writings is the balance that was (perhaps now but I couldn’t say) built into libertarianism. In this case, that would be strong support of self-defense. For example, a mentally ill hobo makes a credible threat of death or serious bodily harm to another, it shouldn’t be a legal ordeal for an individual when they defend themselves with deadly force against the deranged hobo. Leftists would demand that the hobo be given free reign to violate the rights of others whereas liberty loving individuals, like the libertarians I used to know, would’ve been steadfastly against that position.

        Where I politically and philosophically stood then and continue to stand now is: Shall not be infringed and remove most of the legal barriers to individual self defense. This solves a myriad of societal issues without intervention of government. However, as you aptly point out, it removes a large chunk of government’s monopoly on force. Tyrants don’t like that.

  6. Same crap different day.
    Red flag laws passed already in 15 states or so. Are unconstitutional as written. Without due process 1st. Or anyone being able to accuse anyone they want to. These laws create more issues then they solve.

  7. The somewhat right leaning New York Post is calling for a return of assault weapons ban with updates including caps on “muzzle velocity”…

    • ” …including caps on “muzzle velocity”…”

      Then my build will be cool, a sub-sonic .300 BLK with a pistol brace.

      And shotguns with slugs will be good-to-go… 🙂

        • Those arm braces were begging for a trump bumpstock style ban anyways. My sympathies to those who own one. On the other hand Trump doesn’t really seem like a gun guy so maybe he hasn’t heard of them yet.

        • Mebbe, mebbe not.

          There were no ARs offered for sale (that I know of) by manufacturers with bump stocks. In fact, I’ve never seen one in person in any form. But there are many, many arm braces out there, either as replacement accessories (SB3 Tactical) or part of complete guns/builds (Palmetto, Springfield). They’re in common use now. Two very different legal arguments with different requirements.

  8. I think its time for Libertarians to pull their heads from their @$$€$ and get the Freedom train running…Cause the USA is heading fast down the “paternalistic drain!” All leading to both political parties to institutionalize “Authoritarianism…” Due process and the US Constitutional-Bill of Rights be damned…As if the were just a brochure handed out to the General Public! Don’t let the “feelz mob” rub out YOUR Constitutional Liberties for the actions of others (especially if it turns out to be the Deep State all long…)

    • The only thing Libertarians believe in is the right to shoot up crystal meth to improve their sexual experience.

      With rights come personal responsibilities. And Libertarians have shown they certainly do not believe in being held accountable for your F*ck ups.

      Nor do they believe parents should have control over their children. Elliot Rodgers in California and Adam Lanza in Connecticut both have their parents call authorities to say that their own children were a danger to them and other people. But because of the laws that have been supported by Libertarians over the decades it is now impossible for parents to have their dangerous children committed.

      Now it’s coming out that this shooter at the Ohio nightclub when as a teenager had put together a murder list and a rape list of his fellow students. He was actually arrested taken off of a school bus in front of his classmates. Days later he was back in school as if nothing happened. And because he’s a juvenile his record was sealed. So he was able to buy a gun with no problem.

        • You absolutely sure there aren’t two people named Connor Betts out there somewhere?

          There’s a man with my same first and last name living less than 30 miles away from me. He’s only a year older than I am and attended a high school less than five miles from where I grew up. We don’t know each other, but a person looking up our names in news articles wouldn’t know the difference unless he took the time to delve deeper.

        • So the Dayton shooter, a ‘Warren-supporting Democrat” is actually a false flag operation by the right wing intended to unfairly smear liberals? Good research, comrade!

          So once again the right wing is generating fake news to support their anti-freedom agenda, fascinating.

      • Amazing two separate comments about libertarians and you end up demonstrating know nothing about them. Besides libertarians warned people about Trump back in 2016. So quit deflecting it’s okay to admit you believed Trump when he vowed the attack on the 2nd amendment is over.

        • Libertarians put a gun grabber on their ticket in 2016. You have very dirty hands. And refuse to be honest about it.

          I will continue to bash Libertarians Liberals and the Left who hate my civil rights. And provide Links to back up what I say.

          I have yet to receive Links to backup what the three L’s say is their support for civil rights.

    • OK I’ll bite. What in name of Zeus does libertarians have to do with Trump being in support of red flag laws?!

  9. Probate law cannot be properly administered by the Federal Government and is not an enumerated power.
    Every single county in America has Probate Judges to handle issues with persons who are an immediate is to themselves or others.

    If you want the IRS in charge of your family mental health issues, go for it!

    • What you say is true, but gun control is illegal, murdering babies is illegal, socialized medicine is not legal, not allowing Trump on the ballot in Commiefornia is illegal, etc. but we have it.

  10. The overall tone and content of the speech should appeal to many Americans on both sides of the political divide. I think the President’s statement that “mental illness and hatred pulls the trigger, not the gun” bodes well for what ideas the current administration may be open to considering.

      • To clarify, the statement infers that inanimate objects don’t control themselves. It’s people with bad intentions who commit crimes, not guns. The fact that this was stated in this morning’s speech is positive evidence that this administration won’t be considering restrictions on tools, but will instead focus on people. Now, the manner of which the surveillance, identification, and intervention against potential bad actors is conducted could indeed be unconstitutional and thus invalid. We must all stay vigilant and make our voices heard.

      • People will continue to hear what they want to hear. He was right when he said he could shoot someone in Times Square and not lose his supporters. They’re on another world.

  11. “The President’s support for a so-called red flag law or gun violence restraining orders. These laws allow firearms to be taken from individuals who are deemed to be a danger to themselves or others.”

    UnConstitutional as lacking in due process,look for Negotiating Rights Away to come out in favor of this un Constitutional act.

    • Two solutions ; Legislate morality which is impossible, national constitutional carry which is almost as impossible. The real problem as I see it is that we have several generations with no moral compass which comes from religion. Read the 10 commandments and try to find one that is not a good rule to live by. To fit this article, ” Thy shalt not kill ( murder )’.

      • “Legislate morality which is impossible.”


        And more….

        All “moral” issues, yet legislation regarding does exist.

      • It doesn’t have to come from religion, but it needs to come from families. These kids have never been shown love. And I don’t mean touchy feely cuddly love. I mean real love by a parent that cares for them not just to meet their needs but to set them on the right path. And so that they know what love is and how to love others. When a 21 year old decides his life is already so fucked up that he can see no other way, that kid never knew love.

        I don’t believe blaming video games for violence is the answer, but when parents use video games or organized sports or anything as a substitute for spending time with their crotch fruit and teaching them love by example, then this is what we get.

        • Today’s parents put a cellphone or tablet in their kids hands and walk away. They are more worried about making that paper than raising their children. They rely on government socialist schools to teach their kids.

          The outcomes…?

          BANG, BANG, BANG!

  12. We’ve already discussed how “red flag” laws are not necessarily unconstitutional. The issue is that, as currently written, they are. The “with due process” bit is going to kill any attempt to get them passed on a federal level.

        • Yup! I can still hear the P/O in the video yelling at the small dog 🐕 as he’s shooting it!
          BANG-BANG !!!!” With little kids in the line of fire…! These Keystone cops should be strung up by THEIR b@££$ !!!

        • …and these will be the kinds of cop commandos that come to YOUR home to enforce a future Heresay based Prez Trump Federal Red Flag Order ! To nullify your constitutional rights…And of course, you won’t be able to pay for the justice to clear your name and retain your property or your rights!

        • The lack of any remorse after shooting that little girl is disgusting… He REALLY f*cked up and thinks he’s just going to play that sh*t off.

    • ” The “with due process” bit is going to kill any attempt to get them passed on a federal level. ”

      I picked up on that too. Trump is playing both sides of the street here. His call for red flag laws is a pander to the left. The “with due process” qualifier gives him an instant out to veto anything coming out of congress– red flags and due process are mutually exclusive. It’s a shitty situation and he’s playing this about as good as it can be played.

      After all– who we gonna vote for? Joe Biden? Or maybe everyone will just sit this one out. Yeah, that’ll fix him.

      • It sure looks like Trump has deserted us. I don’t see how he can be elected now. I’ll probably still vote for him, but now I think he has seriously alienated his base. Just a few days ago he was proudly telling us how he supported the 2nd Amendment. And now he does this. . .

        • Does what? Trump gave up exactly nothing. He threw a bone to the gun-grabbers by saying red flag laws. Then he promptly gave himself an out by qualifying it with due process. The only joker in the deck is what he means by due process. If he holds a strict line, red flags go nowhere. If he backpedals, then we can legitimately call him out for selling out. As it stands now, he hasn’t given up anything. Wait and see.

          What he has done is box in the Democrats. He’s made a few (hopefully) tepid and useless proposals that give him a cosmetic gloss of actually doing something when in fact he has done nothing. Predictably, the Dems are over-reacting– Harris is already on record for door-to-door confiscation, and if the rest of the Dem candidates stay true to form, they will all try to out-do her. Basically, he’s pushed the entire field of Dem candidates into the confiscation camp.

          Believe it or not, there are some centrist liberals who have at least a luke-warm support for 2A and are not afflicted with Trump Derangement Syndrome . The more rabid the Dems get on confiscation, the more likely they will move in to the Trump camp, reluctantly so. It’s a calculated risk, and it might not work in Trump’s favor. Then again, it might. Wait and see.

          So, inquiring minds want to know— given the shitty situation and a razor-thin margin of popularity, what would you have done differently than what Trump did?

      • “His call for red flag laws is a pander to the left. ”

        Trump has to be way stupider that even I believe him to be to believe that anyone on the left would ever vote for him. So either this is what he really believes or he’s deflecting because the guy in TX was a white supremacist who probably believes that Trump secretly supports what he did.

        • Given the number of Berniebros that came out for Trump in 2016 that’s a bullshit argument and you know it’s a bullshit argument. What he’s doing is exactly as described above, trying to drive the DNC into full blown confiscation mode. He did it with immigration, he did with the Stalinist / Islamist of the DNC. Now he’s doing it again. 2020 is not going to be won by how much of the base turns out. Both sides know the score at this point. 2020 is going to be won by Trump seeming like a sane moderate while the left goes completely off the rails into Maoism / Stalinism

      • it would be nice to think he’s that clever but I don’t think he thinks beyond 5 minutes into the future. You really think he understands what due process is well enough to make that argument when he’s already on record saying “Take the guns first, go through due process second?

        • Have you seen the DNC debates lately? They are currently a caricature of what the party was in 2008. You can thank Trump for that.

  13. Although he did call for due process, it will be a major fight to force that into legislation since the House is unlikely to cooperate.

  14. “Stop the glorification of violence, including gruesome video games. Cultural change is hard, he said.”

    This is #1 Bullshit. Almost all young men play these games. That whole correlation causation thing and statistics ya know. How about we rule by logic instead of emotion?

    Since when has the threat of the death penalty ever deterred a crime? Most of these people are willing to die anyway.

    • “Since when has the threat of the death penalty ever deterred a crime? Most of these people are willing to die anyway”

      This. Any mass shooter knows he is on a suicide mission.

    • Violent video games alone in a mentally sound person = no problem. Violent video games in a young man with mental health issues on psychotropic drugs = possible big problem. Dave Grossman touches on this in one of his books. As I health care provider, I can say that psychotropic use is out of control and definitely a contributing factor.

      • Also, we now have an entire generation (or two) of young people who are institutionally unprepared to face adversity, failure or loss. Life is full of those things and they have been protected. When they do have to face it, and everyone does, they are emotionally unequipped.

      • A few years ago, we had a neighbor who had her kids prescribed on ADHD drugs as a way to get more money from the State via the CA welfare system. During the first few days of a new school year, a new school counselor reviewed the situation and determined that her kids were indeed normal and didn’t need pharmaceutical intervention. He rescinded the ADHD order. I personally spent time with these kids, and they clearly only needed wholesome interaction with the “real world” and a father figure influence, neither of which the mom provided.

        The mom got pissed at the loss of that branch of income and immediately took her kids to a health clinic, where she found a doctor who rubber stamped her request to put them back on the meds. She also applied for the classic “Obamaphone” during that same time period, and was proud of it.

        When I voiced my disagreement with her decision to put the kids back on the meds, she never spoke to us again. Fortunately, she moved to another neighborhood soon afterward.

    • “Stop the glorification of violence, including gruesome video games.”

      Like Hollywood is gonna stop making action films, their bread-and-butter?

      Nice two-step, Mr. President, you deftly threw the ball right back into the Leftist’s hands…

    • Art visual or written is a danger to someone. Of course it all depends on Whose Ox is being gored. While some people said rap music lyrics and video games are a danger to children. Others disagreed. And call them stupid. But those same righteous leftists also said that the book Meine Kampf written by Adolf Hitler should be banned because it was a dangerous book.

      Yes it all depends on Whose Ox is being gored.

  15. …It also very convenient that the NRA had a sudden train 🚆 wreck! Or is anyone starting to get really worried that something is amiss in the USA…That “Something Wicked this way comes!”

    • Meh, Negotiating Rights Away brought that on themselves. Wayne couldn’t quit lining his pockets and snubbing anyone who said mean things about them.

  16. This is a brilliant play as Trump wants it to include immigration reform in the same bill! All they have to do is pass it in the Senate and the House will reject it as dems won’t give one inch to any immigration reform. Trump looks like the great compromiser and the Dems are the obstructionists before a major election next year!

    • The media will downplay it as usual. Remember all the talk of the dems wanting amnesty for 1 million dreamers? Trump said he wanted to offer citizenship to TWO million dreamers and their family as long as we reform the system so we’re not in this same position again. The liberal courts said you couldn’t overturn Obama’s policies because….reasons? Since the can was kicked down the road, the dems could care less about the dreamers. Where’s all of the press on that? Trump still looked like the bad guy somehow.

    • 4-D chess, right?…….
      Like with with the Mexico border wall…….nope
      Like with Iran……….nope
      Like with China…….nope
      Like with North Korea……nope
      Like with general motors….nope
      Like with bump stocks……..nope
      Like with Immigration …….nope
      Like with pro-gun rights…..nope
      Like with draining the swamp…nope
      Like with NAFTA…..nope
      Like with “lock her up” …….nope
      How many time do we need to be lied to?
      “Art of the deal” ……yeah right, more like
      The “Art of the FlimFlam man”.

      • Wow… the commietard trolls are coming out in force today with their shiny new accounts…

        I could take the time to debunk your bullshit point by point… or I could just tell you to sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up.

        • @ pwrserge
          I’ve been on this forum for a while.
          I’m not a commie, on the contrary I’m quite conservative.
          I usually agree with what you say.
          I don’t like being lied to.
          Trump IS a FlimFlam artist.
          I never trusted Trump but I voted for him because he wasn’t Hillary Or a commie Dem.

        • Serge will call anyone he disagrees with a commietard….even as he pushes his own leftist agendas. It’s a troll fest here.

        • “Serge will call anyone he disagrees with a commietard….even as he pushes his own leftist agendas. It’s a troll fest here.”

          Boy, you got that right, Vlad.

      • The dems approve of the NAFTA reform, they just can’t stomach giving Trump a win, especially with the election around the corner. So they will do nothing because it’s about power, not helping Americans.

        • Nanshi, you’re an idiot. I support Red Flag laws tempered with due process. Having worked in the Criminal Justice and Psychiatric Field for almost 30 years I have seen many instances where this could be used to avert disaster. I am usually an absolutist with regard to the 2nd Amendment as well. But, the devil is in the details, and it certainly cannot be the Cali version of due process.

        • Buying a gun should be like buying a power drill. You are not an absolutist in anyway. Red flag laws will change nothing and help no one and only hurt the innocent.

          • “Red flag laws will change nothing and help no one and only hurt the innocent.”

            Definitely a feature.

        • John E>
          Constitutionality aside, if someone is so dangerous that his firearms need to be taken away, he’s too dangerous to live free amongst us. Red flag laws basically say that by removing firearms from dangerously deranged people, they are rendered harmless and cannot hurt themselves or others anymore. Like there is no other way to commit violence.

        • “I am usually an absolutist with regard to the 2nd Amendment as well. But”

          There’s your statement in a nutshell. Red Flag laws are unnecessary and are contrary the very essence of a free society. There are already processes in place to have people looked at. You should know that if you were even marginally competent in your profession. Red Flag laws are about a government power grab and nothing more. Supporting Red Flag laws means you, Trump, or anyone else doesn’t support the Second Amendment. It really is that cut and dry.

        • So nobody sees a reason why somebody should be denied easy access to firearms without being locked up like an animal? Really?

          My problem with “red flag” laws is the ex parte nature of the proceedings, not with the underlying concept.

        • “So nobody sees a reason why somebody should be denied easy access to firearms without being locked up like an animal? Really?”

          Seriously, yes. Unless someone is in the legitimate custody of another, they retain the exercise of their unalienable right to keep and bear arms. That’s precisely what “shall not be infringed” means. Of course, the custodian of the individual then becomes responsible for their charge’s reasonable safety.

        • So… Schizophrenics who are just fine when properly medicated but who are prone to relapse should have unlimited free reign no questions asked? Or should we lock them up even though they are perfectly functional and harmless when they take their meds?

        • “So… Schizophrenics who are just fine when properly medicated but who are prone to relapse should have unlimited free reign no questions asked? Or should we lock them up even though they are perfectly functional and harmless when they take their meds?”

          If they aren’t under the guardianship of someone to mind them and they commit a violent act, their life may very well end right there in an armed and free society. That’s the way of things. That”s freedom.

  17. So guilty until proven innocent…. seizures of private property without warrants?
    But illegals can’t be held without warrants?
    Gotcha…. I see the RINO in the room now.

    • Where exactly did he say that? Did you miss the entire “with due process” part of the statement?

      • Oh wait! ✋ I see now! He’s playing 4D chess with Big Blue! Is that it…Not much of a reassurance they were not just heading into authoritarianism….

        • He also tied it to immigration reform, which we both know isn’t going to happen. As far as the 2nd amendment community is concerned that “announcement” was a nothingburger.

    • Years ago when the idea of confiscating property was being considered, as a way to take away money and property from drug dealers etc., there were thoughtful individuals that warned that this could get out of hand. Now this has ben proved true. Property is being seized for no auto insurance and now red flag laws. The old adage about the came getting his nose in the tent……..

      • “Years ago when the idea of confiscating property was being considered, as a way to take away money and property from drug dealers etc., there were thoughtful individuals that warned that this could get out of hand.”

        There is nothing humans will not corrupt “for a good cause”.

  18. The left was hoping for a NZ style response this week with turn in and confiscation next week.

    Once they get back in control that will happen.

    • That takes the trifecta of holding the House, Senate, and White House, at the same time…

  19. Well that’s IT…I ain’t voting for Drumph. HOW is this different from communism?!? Stock up kid’s. Bumpstock’s were just a start. And my “social media” participation will drastically decrease.

    • It sucks that it took so long for some people to start to see through Republicans’ and Trump’s BS. At least you have eyes and ears that still work.

      We are in this together even if you don’t like me or agree with what I say.

      • Trump don’t give a shit, he is all about greed and self-dealing.

        “President Trump offered prayers for “those who perished in Toledo.” The Ohio shooting took place in Dayton, which is about 150 miles south of Toledo. The Texas shooting took place in El Paso, which is about 1,600 miles from Toledo.”

        • It’s true that Trump uses the presidency for his personal benefit at the expense of America. He is not actually trying to make America great, it’s not about America first.

          I don’t support a man that puts America so far down the priority list.

        • : As of 12/13/16, Trump makes at least $476 million a year and probably as high as $600 million. That’s straight from his U.S. Government financial disclosure forms, which he could go to jail for falsifying.

 : (2019) Trump’s income fell last year

          How is Trump making more money? His biggest money maker was his brand which took a massive hit (and most likely won’t recover) because of the intolerance of the left. Unlike the usual suspects like say, Joe Biden, Hillary, and Obama, Trump made his fortune in the private sector long before he was president. The listed dems are the ones that enriched themselves by holding high office. Take off your blinders and check out your left wing heroes.

        • @Dude

          It’s not only about money. I said “personal benefit,” which isn’t all about money. Maybe you think about money all day, but there is more to someone’s motivations than money.

          I won’t get into it because it requires a lot of posting of videos for evidence, which will probably lead to me getting banned.

    • With no sunspots and a solar minimum not seen since solar observations were a ‘thing’, decent local range can be had during daylight…

      • Are you old enough to remember cycle 21 (1978) ? Those were the times to be an amateur or a SWL.

        • Late 70s was when I was first introduced to the glories of the ionosphere.

          But now that the solar cycle has collapsed into nothingness, I seriously doubt I will ever see what we once had on the high bands in the remainder of my lifetime.

          It kinda sucks, QRP to Australia was kinda fun. US to Europe was everyday, as was the Bahamas and South America. But no more, outside a little scrap now and then of sporadic ‘E’. Or the few minutes chasing the ‘grey line’…

        • Hell, I had a lot of fun in the CB era! I had “Moon Talkies ” in my truck. A CB base and mobile unit, a couple of high power cobra and Midland CB talkies…Used to talk with people in Texas and down South from the Northeast… as long as I didn’t get knocked off the air by someone with a 100w kicker and an echo gen. ….

        • With no skip to confuse RDF, locating transmitters will be easier.

          One must be frequency agile these days, Or use an audio editing program on your computer to produce burst transmissions, encrypted of course.

          Directional antennas are better at confusing RDF, beam or quad, just not ground planes or quarter-wave whips..

        • “…as long as I didn’t get knocked off the air by someone with a 100w kicker…”

          A lousy 100 watts?

          There are folks pushing more than a few *thousand* watts, nowadays. Using broadcast station ‘pulls’ snuck out the back door of the station…

    • You can use encryption for chat and emails. You can also use a bouncer/VPN and IRC. But there are chat apps now that have encryption using keys/passwords you should personally hand to your trusted friends.

      We have to start building a private network for communication. Invite only for trusted people. We can’t wait until it’s too late then try to setup our communications. We should already be doing that with all the NSA spying going on.

  20. If I had the money 💰. Is leave my socialist police-state , state…So I could move to a free state and exercise my lawful 2nd amendment rights before its to late…

      • Oh there are definitely plenty that are hell of lot more free than mine. Mines ranked at number 48# on the G&A state guide…Hell, my state only as of 2014 deregulated pepper spray and mace…And bb/pellet guns….
        Which is not 2nd Amendment compliant….The best over the counter self defense someone can get immediately would be a “batlight ” from Wal-Mart or a baseball bat…..

        • I have one of those “batlights” from Walmart in the map pocket of my driver side door. In case I can’t reach my other PPE in the event of a carjacking, I can grab the batlight as I’m forced out of the driver seat, and clock the assailant upside the head.

          I also carry it openly when hiking.

  21. O.K. Here’s the thing those first two should help plenty if you just tweak them a touch:

    “•Work with social media companies to detect mass shooters before they strike.
    •Stop the glorification of violence, including gruesome video games. Cultural change is hard, he said.
    •We must reform our mental health laws to better identify mentally disturbed individuals to give people treatment and, when necessary, involuntary confinement”


    •Work with social media companies to detect mass shooters before they strike.
    •Stop the glorification of violence. Cultural change is hard, he said.
    •We must reform our mental health laws to better identify mentally disturbed individuals to give people treatment and, when necessary, involuntary confinement.

    This isn’t because some kids played Duke Nukem, Doom, or Turok back in 1996. These event occurred because the perpetrators were/are nuttier than a squirrel turd and allowed to walk free without treatment. People knew most of these shooters and would straight out tell you they were nuts look at Florida, Colorado, California, Texas all these recent shootings back to Sandy Hook have one common factor, the shooter had some sort of underlying mental illness. Yet instead of picking up the mantle and saying it’s time we actually address mental health in this great nation our president and elected leaders focus on the tools used. I’ll admit mental health is a VERY tough nut to crack (damnit Moltar stop with the nut puns), but there has to be a way forward we can all agree on without these damnable red flag laws that allows for the accused to make their defense in court after a fair notice is given and before anything is confiscated give the accused 2 weeks (maybe 2 months) to get an evaluation performed through a court appointed or private mental health professional and if proven to not be a threat all the accused costs will be reimbursed and nothing goes on your record however, if after all that you are proven to be unfit your guns are confiscated and you are red flagged in NICS.

    You may not agree on the social media part of it but if you post about mowing down them foreigners or how you just idolize those Columbine kids that should probably be a clue that you need a little help. I’m not saying we lock up Alex Jones by no means but if you make credible threats online, if you post pictures of yourself torturing animals, and if you glorify a mass shooter then yes you should be evaluated.

    Y’all we may not like this position we’re in but we have got to get out ahead of it and start finding ways to work together (as nucking futz as that sounds) to solve this issue and stem the tide of mass shootings or we’ll quickly find ourselves on the wrong end of the law. Sure the Constitution favors us but as we should have learned by now that doesn’t always mean we win and sometimes the best we can hope for is a compromise. Now I’ll say those expanded background checks won’t work and banning the tools used and violent media won’t either but this mental health reform coupled with a DUE PROCESS RED FLAG law just might, just ensure any red flag law notifies the accused and gives them ample time to compile a defense that must include a mental health examination and will only bar this person should they have a condition that even with treatment cannot make them capable of holding a job or being an otherwise responsible member of society. Conditions that can readily and reliably be treated and controlled (depression ADHD PTSD and such) will not bar you from possession so long as you are under treatment for the condition or show no other signs (social media posts, journal entries, and the like) of being a violent threat to others and yourself.

    If y’all have a better idea please let me know I’m open to all suggestions and would love to see us come up with an idea that actually works.

    • “Work with social media companies to detect mass shooters before they strike.”

      You think the social media companies don’t know who the right wing is?

      Expect all kinds of ‘reporting’ on us, and jack shit on Antifa, ‘Betsy Riot’ and the rest of the Leftist terrorists…

      • “You may not agree on the social media part of it but if you post about mowing down them foreigners or how you just idolize those Columbine kids that should probably be a clue that you need a little help. I’m not saying we lock up Alex Jones by no means but if you make credible threats online, if you post pictures of yourself torturing animals, and if you glorify a mass shooter then yes you should be evaluated.”

        Where in all that explanation does it include anything political? Well aside from the Alex Jones part but he’s already banned. Note it also included handy dandy terms and conditions CREDIBLE THREATS, TORTURING ANIMALS, IDOLIZING FORMER MASS MURDERERS. i.e. not because you posted some Hillary Clinton meme or some joke about Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden sitting in a nursing home.

        I will concede that it may turn that way social media being what social media is which is why your defense costs should be reimbursed by the accuser and since most red flag laws already require a personal relationship between the accuser and the accused (ex, coworker, mom, dad, some other close relationship) I chose not to include it in my draft, but your comment has made me rethink that and silently mourn the absence of the edit function. Also as with anything pertaining to the human mind it is rife for abuse but there really is no way around that other than do nothing and I’m fairly certain my idea will never pass congress if by some miracle it is presented by some lawmaker. The dems won’t go for it because there are too many checks and balances built in and the repubs will hate it because it costs money that they may not recover and it is rife for abuse by some over zealous court appointed shrink or any left leaning shrink.

    • “If y’all have a better idea please let me know I’m open to all suggestions and would love to see us come up with an idea that actually works.”

      Force government to abide by “shall not be infringed” and remove most legal barriers to legitimate self defense. The “problem”* would disappear in short order. See… that nut wasn’t so tough to crack after all. It just means living like free individuals in a society instead of like children living in daddy government’s house. Liberty is not without its perils. Government needs to get the hell out of the way.

      *I put problem in quotes because it’s actually not a significant number of deaths per capita compared to other causes of death.

      • Annnnd we’re still in the same spot only now maybe 2 more folks carried and were shot with everybody else, did not return fire, or still weren’t present. Constitutional carry does not guarantee more folks will actually carry. Elimination of nfa and Hughes does not guarantee more folks will buy full auto. Cancellation of NICS does not mean more folks (criminal or not) will buy a gun and returning to the strict definition of the 2A does not guarantee the good guys will live and the bad guys will die. So still in the same situation but now there’s an option for the nutter to have full auto and the folks that don’t carry now still ain’t carrying.

        Oh also the news people and Democrats will still want to bend gun owners over a barrel and rape them with a barbwire wrapped cactus soaked in hot sauce and gasoline. Oh and they still won’t buy you dinner, tell you you’re pretty, or give you a reach around.

        • “Constitutional carry does not guarantee more folks will actually carry.”

          Then that’s their problem, now isn’t it. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink. If they foolishly decide not to be prepared to defend themselves then that’s on them. What you are advocating is that government needs to take up the slack for slackards who won’t do for themselves. This is how government’s “safety net” came to be. Individuals are responsible for their own safety. Where there is no legal bar to them being armed and they choose not to then they own their own stupidity.

          And, I don’t give two shits about what leftists think about it. They can pound sand.

  22. Ok… I’ll be back tomorrow. Hopefully by then that never-Trump retards will quit running around like their asses are on fire.

    Here’s the bottom line. Trump is the nominee. Not voting for Trump makes you no better than some Demokkkommie scumbag that votes for whatever socialist they decide to put on the ballot. You want somebody “better” than Trump? Put up a candidate in the primaries who isn’t a spineless choad and who is willing to fight for Americans against the commies in the DNC and the MSM. Until then, shut up and pedal.

    • Brother, we need you here to explain to us dummies Trump’s high level 4D chess. If not you, who?

    • Ahhh, it is so amusing to observe the small mind of the TrumpTard as it tries to deal with the cognitive dissonance of having voted for a “conservative” Manhattan liberal.

      • So you’re going to throw a childish hissy fit over something Trump said and throw the White House to the actual open commies? Really? How are you any different from the blue hair feminazi brigade?

        Here’s the takeaway. Trump says a lot of shit.

  23. Defacto red flag laws are already on the books nationally. All someone has to do to (temporarily) remove an individuals gun rights is to file a restraining order against whomever.

    Naturally, this does absolutely nothing to stop criminals from doing harm or killing people, but in an atmosphere of national knee jerk “we have to do something”, that fact has no effect upon mob mentality.