Thousand Oaks California Student Country Night Bar Shooting
courtesy Daily Mail and AP

From the Daily Mail: :Twelve people have been killed at a country music bar in southern California after a masked gunman wearing all black opened fire on crowds of college kids before taking his own life with a semi-automatic handgun. The shooter, who has not been named, stormed Borderline Bar and Grill in Thousand Oaks on Wednesday at 11.20pm.”

The shooter reportedly used a semi-auto pistol with extended magazines to first shoot the bar’s bouncer before moving inside and opening fire on a college country night crowd while throwing smoke grenades.

‘He had a black mask, it looked like a bandanna, on the bottom of his face, sunglasses dark hoodie, dark jeans. He was kind of bigger, more burly. Scary,’ the 21-year-old said.

Teylor Whittler, another witness, said the gunman had ‘perfect form’ and ‘looked like he knew what he was doing.’

‘I saw three people get shot by him. As soon as he walked in, he had perfect form. I’m born in a military family and I’ve been around guns my entire life so I know a bit about them.

‘He looked like he knew what he was doing. He had practiced, he had been shooting before,’ she told Fox News.

One of the dead was Ventura County sheriff’s sergeant Ron Helus who responded to the call.

He and another officer from California Highway Patrol arrived at the bar minutes after the first 911 calls came in.

Helus entered the bar to confront the gunman and was shot multiple times. He was taken to the hospital but died of his injuries afterwards.

120 COMMENTS

    • Impossible. Can’t have extended mags. Cant have gun in bar. Can’t shoot people. Apparently he reloaded, also, maybe we should outlaw reloading during mass murder? What might have stopped this? Somebody with a gun putting a few in his back. Actually, somebody taking a shot at him might have caused suicide, even if it missed. But another GFZ was successful in accommodating mass murder. Are we shocked?

  1. “…The shooter reportedly used a semi-auto pistol with extended magazines …”

    How could the Daily Mail know about “extended Magazines” when the type of pistol, make, model has not been released yet.

    I read the article this morning from Drudge linked to Daily Mail and the above jumped out at me.

    Good to see TTAG on top of the story.

    • Read on another article this morning that one of the witnesses said he used extended mags.
      I assume every news reporter grabbed ahold of that and ran with it. Like a shorter mag would make anyone less dead.

      • Gun used was Glock 21, 45ACP 10 round mag, one in pipe. possible shooter had a few “extended mags” No AR-15 and it’s uber-dangerous “high velocity bullets” to demonize this time. Slow and fat kills just as well…

  2. Gun control laws contribute to the body count…. The murdered found a place guns are not allowed, and broke several laws just bringing the gun there, obviously gun laws don’t stop someone determined to murder. The real sad thing is this could happen in any bar in the country, as guns are prohibited in places that serve alcohol and obtain 51% of their income from in most states, even gun friendly Arizona and Texas. Gun control laws and stupid people that think any gun law is going to make them safe are culpable in these murders.

    • Not every State prohibits carry in places that serve alcohol. MS doesn’t, provided the patrons don’t consume or sit in the bar area of a restaurant.

        • Same in Virginia — concealed carry permit holders can carry where alcohol is served as long as they don’t consume alcohol while there.

        • Colorado allows you to be in a bar and to drink as long as you don’t become legally drunk while in possession of your gat.

        • Uh-huh. I have been following CO rules for over a decade, now. Has worked fine. Even once where 30.06 was posted as well, but I try to avoid that as I prefer to take my business elsewhere.

    • AZ is still pretty gun friendly but it seems the vote here in Phoenix is beginning to swing more left with every election.
      A lot of folks are moving out of California and into Phoenix in order to escape the madness that is occurring in California. Those folks are also taking those problems with them by voting for the same stupid policies and representatives that brought the problems to California in the first place.

      • Yep. You have two choices. Stand and fight CA. Or run and die tired.

        Tyranny in America will live or die based on what happens in CA.

        • I hope that’s not true. If it is, I suspect we are already well and truly screwed. But as someone who fled CA a couple decades ago, and is now watching the creep of leftism in his adopted state, I won’t say you’re wrong.

      • Same problems in a bunch of other states. California seems to never run out of people to export. Dumb people who vote just like they did in California and then wonder why everything goes to shit.

        • Two election cycles ago, Nevada was a solidly red state. Red Gov, Red AG, Red Legislature. After this last election Nevada is now super-blue.

          New Governor is set propose:
          Bans on Semi-autos
          Bans on Magazines
          Bans on Suppressors
          “Red-flag” laws
          Ammo back ground checks
          (NV has a ‘broken’ universal background check that was voted in two years ago, however, that won’t stop the new AG from illegally implementing it)

          Look, Arizona, you are not far behind. Tucson, Flag are blue, the great PHX valley is now deep purple while the rest of the state (except that weird blue strip to the east) falling into various shades of red. Like NV, however, the populations of the urban centers will soon be liberal enough, and have enough population to out vote the rest of the state. That is exactly where Nevada fell just a few days ago.

          My son went to sleep in Nevada and woke up in Eastern California….

        • Welcome to the slow moving nightmare that is now Colorado. “Progressives” now control the governors office, the state senate and house. Cali fornicators, and liberal progressives from back east have flooded the Centennial state. Pretty sure that Wyoming is in my future along with its damned wind.

    • We can carry in a bar and drink. Common sense tells us alcohol and guns don’t mix. If someone is in a DGU and has alcohol in their system, they risk loosing thier CCW license. So if I’m at a bar, I don’t drink. On a side note, Ventura County’s Sheriff fully supports CCW. If you have a clean record, have the will to protect loved ones and or yourself, and have at least $500 for fees and the CCW class, you can easily get a CCW. Ventura County is home to 2 military bases and a huge population of Veterans and Freedom-loving consevative Republicans. So a lot of gun owners and a growing number of conceal carriers.

      • “Common sense tells us alcohol and guns don’t mix.”

        Sooooooo tired of this myth. I’ve gone shooting (yes, with other people) where we were all having a few and it was perfectly safe. In fact, if you drink, which I no longer do, it’s something I would highly recommend you try if it’s legal in your state. Why? Well, I’ve written on that topic here too many times to count. It’s not hard to figure out.

        Alcohol and guns mix just fine. Drunks and firearms are what do not mix. Well, actually they do mix. It’s just like mixing bleach and ammonia, not a great idea to let seriously intoxicated people handle firearms. Then again, if someone is drunk and doesn’t unholster their gun it’s not a problem. Just like the car keys in their pocket aren’t a problem unless the keys come out of the pocket.

        • Agree completely. I always carry, probably have been intoxicated (at least legally) hundreds of times, essentially all in my living room. With my car keys in my pocket. If I were planning to shoot someone, most likely I would not drink alcohol that night. But the way it is discussed is silly. If I had been in that bar, I would have been armed, and I would have had a chance.

        • “Now I think of it, near anything we are told is “common sense”, is also wrong.”

          Like looking both ways before crossing a street? 😉

          I think I’m gonna keep following that one…

    • A mind control patsy? No, another mental victim of a violent culture. Who’s in inflicted his particular insanity upon a club full of innocent victims. And yes, better mental health screening of the sort that Trump vetoed last year would help prevent people like this from putting their hands on the large capacity Large caliber handgun’s like the Glock.

      And just because laws against speeding are not 100% affective doesn’t mean we should have no laws against speeding, that is a childish argument that does not serve the gun enthusiasts well.

      • Please. California has laws on top of laws that restrict the ability to buy or possess a gun, carry a gun, put ammo in a gun. obtain the ammo to put in the gun, or continue to own a gun once you have it if someone has an inkling that you might hurt someone. None of those laws are all that effective, but the combined burden is onerous and illegal.

        Just how many laws do you think it will take to prevent mass murders by determined individuals? They happen in countries that have a virtual stranglehold on gun ownership – even worse than California. I guess to a progressive, the stack of legislation to eventually and completely ban guns has no physical depth limitation. Bans upon bans upon bans.

        What I want to see are bans upon bans on liberal billionaires funding and driving this legislation. The initiative that just passed in Washington would not have even made it to the ballot without billionaire financing of paid signature gatherers. This is a complete and total mangling of the intent of the initiative process.

      • It’s simple to make mandatory mental health screenings acceptable! Simply make them mandatory *for every citizen*, paid for by taxpayers. Watch how fast that idea dies. Only goal was to make firearm ownership more onerous and expensive, no possible benefit to anyone. Mental health screenings are witch doctor stuff, anyhow.

  3. “I’m born in a military family and I’ve been around guns my entire life so I know a bit about them.”

    When you see this in an interview, you know its bullshit. Guy probably had an uncle in the Navy who spent 4 years on a logistics ship.

  4. Heartbreaking, also extremely sad for the officer on the verge of retirement.

    On the political side, this might as well be the can of gas to get the west coast gun ban train rolling!

    • Timing was way off – if you subscribe to conspiracy theories, someone’s ass is going to get kicked on this one. Missed the cutoff date to influence the November election. Too early to have much effect on potential legislation when the new Congress gets seated. A completely wasted false flag event.

      That said, wonder why a country bar? Did they think they were going to mass murder a group of conservative college students? Is there such a thing?

  5. California’s laws on law abiding citizens worked as intended. The people in the bar were unarmed and could not defend themselves. The tyrannical government of California now has better optics to use to further subjugate the citizenry.

    • Bs. It’s exactly this, “no option to defend themselves” attitude that leads to the ridiculously elevated body counts in these shootings. Bar packed with patrons, single shooter. Instead of rushing this guy, en masse, everyone cowers like sitting ducks, waiting to be shot.

      This is a societal problem of, “we need somebody else, somebody with ‘special training and licensing’ to protect us,” instead of taking responsibility for our own actions and safety.

      I’m as pro gun rights as they come, but I think it’s important to remember that, while a gun is often the best option, it is never the only option. Without the determination and resolve to take responsibility for one’s own safety, the gun isn’t going to help anyway. It isn’t some talisman that magically protects us.

      Alas, this is the America we live in now. Few want to take responsibility for anything, least of all their own defense. We used to be a nation of individualist fighters. Sadly, those of us who still subscribe to this ethos are a dying breed

      • I hear you. Most bars have chairs. Were all the chairs found at the front door, or did everybody run away without throwing one?

  6. ‘He had a black mask, it looked like a bandanna, on the bottom of his face, sunglasses dark hoodie, dark jeans.’

    Standard issue Antifa costume. Pure speculation at this point but that is what he is describing.

    • It is also a just standard criminal get up for robbers and what notas well as what is worn by some terrorist groups, some motor cycle gans, etc. Far too little information to jump straight to antifa.

      • I don’t think we should ban sunglasses, but they should definitely be regulated. We need laws in place to keep the mentally ill away from sunglasses. If we had licensing requirements with a 3-day waiting period for buying lenses with over a 20% tint we would never see a bad guy with sunglasses again. The license should only let you keep and wear sunglasses in the home though, if you go outside with sunglasses a normal person will mistake you for a criminal. I mean, why would you NEED sunglasses out in public anyway when you could just use a hat?

        • So, a dozen people dead because of gun violence and the gun community turns to stand up comedy? Once again, the callous attitude of the gun enthusiasts will lead to more restrictive laws and regulations on the ownership of guns.

          I imagine if it was your daughter or niece laying on the dance floor with her intestines blown out you might feel differently about gun violence.

        • Miner49er: You can piss right off. If we offered condolences, you’d dismiss those as “thoughts and prayers”, and if we tried to suggest ways it could have been avoided without disarming us, you’d dismiss those, too.

          No answer we could ever give would be satisfactory apart from “Here they are, officer”, so we aren’t going to play your stupid, shitty little game. You don’t give a rat’s ass about anything aside from the power you want to exert over us.

        • Miner49er there is no such thing as “gun violence”, only violence. If a family member of mine died like that, I blame the murderer, not their tools.

        • More restrictive this or that will change nothing, even if you could find something more restrictive than CA has already. Possibly you can get more laws repeating themselves, but still no effect. Dumbass, try just thinking for one minute; What would have made a difference is armed security and patrons. Try figuring out how to accomplish that, or STFU.

    • Actually, he is a hero, he was trying to wrestle the gun to the ground while it was on a rampage. In the end it cost him his life also. The gun was probably on PCP or something, it was just uncontrollable.

      • I know, I know!! The gun, on pcp, was totally out of control and the adoptive parent was unable to handle this type of behavior. Firearm protection services (like child protection services) came to the home and had a stern talk about safe gun outings with the adopter. And try to understand that this poor gun needed love too.

  7. We gotta get some SCOTUS action on gun control while the outlook is favorable. NH just went full blue in Concord and if past years are any indication they’ll be pumping out MA and CT style gun control every week for the next two years this time with only Sununu’s veto to stop them.

    The difference between all the LGBTQ and abortion folks fears and ours is theirs are always shown to be groundless and their momentum moves ever forward while ours is nearly always proven right and once they dig in the momentum is always backwards. I’m tired of moving and I’m tired of waking up on morning where some lunatic 2,000 miles away does something stupid and I wonder how my government is going to fuck me over for just living my life.

  8. Right on schedule.

    How convenient is it that the day after the election in which the commies take the House, we just happen to have another “mass shooting”…

  9. Yes this incident proves what we all know. You ban concealed carry and create gun free zones then criminals who don’t follow the gun laws take advantage of the vacuum to commit murder. Someone aiming to commit the most agrecious of crimes will never be bothered by lesser firearm related crimes. So sad.

  10. At Least 2 Mass Shootings in California Since I Moved Out Of Redlands, CA Back in 2010. One Of The Mass Shootings Was In San Bernardino Back in 2015!!! Now This One, Thank GOD I Live in N.C. Now, Feel Sorry For All Those People Who Choose To Live In That Sorry-Ass Anti-Gun State, You Couldn’t Pay Me To Live There Again. Heck, at This Point I Wouldn’t Even Want To Visit There!!!
    #COMMIEFORNIA

  11. I know people want to blame the Mulford Act on that dead president and governor Ronald Reagan.
    But its the elected homosexual tyrannical leadership of California, who publicly stated they support the racist gun control Mulford Act. That is why it is still on the books to this day.

    I open carry all the time like many people do here. And I see the “bulges” of the many who conceal carry as well.

    There are very few “no gun” signs in Tennessee or Kentucky or Missouri. At least in the businesses I visit. I rarely see them in public.

    But don’t worry you can still smoke marijuana in public in the state of California. You can have sex in public on days of government gives you permission in the state of California.

    You can walk around with a strap-on dildo well-fitted for public attire, like they do in Austin Texas, and pride parades, in the state of California. But you can’t carry a gun in public in the state of California. Or conceal carry, unless you have sex with someone perhaps or know someone of power in the state of California.

    Elected officials and the police like their guns. But they don’t like your guns.

    My prayers to the victims and their families. California does seem to have at least two brave officers who went in without waiting. Unlike in Parkland Florida where they have cowards in the Sheriff’s Department.

    • BTW
      8 hour class, $25 for the background check and two weeks, no longer, by Kentucky law I had my carry permit. You don’t wait months here. No waiting to buy a gun in Kentucky. And they have the “shoot the arsonist” law here. You catch a “fire bug” in the act you can put a bullet in them.

      By law you don’t need permission to keep a gun in your car parked in the lot of an anti-gun business.

    • Chris T from KY said “Elected officials and the police like their guns. But they don’t like your guns.”

      Yeah Chris, Leftist’s and other assorted statists aren’t really against guns. They’re just more comfortable when those guns are enforcing THEIR agenda.

    • Dude, can the histrionics. Your comment is so full of wrong statements and bigotry that it completely destroys your point. You’re like the leftist version of a gun owner.

      • Please Think before typing

        You must be one of those persons that would prefer to blame dead people who passed laws long ago. Instead of the living who support those same racist gun control laws. You’re a FUDD aren’t you?

        Are you friends with these racist gun grabbers who sit in the California State Legislature? Have you voted for them in the past?

        Have you campaign for them in the past?

        As a black person I’ve been called a lot of names. So let the name calling begin you bigot.

        I’m glad I left California and I’m not around people like you.

        • For anyone FYI
          When white homosexuals say they are like black people, and say they are a minority. and work to get elected as an open homosexual, and then work to pass laws taking away civil rights of blacks and others, Why should I not call them out for being a gay gun grabber? As they destroy the Bill Of Rights, while at the same time they claim they are like blacks and a minority????

          The Racist Origins of California’s Concealed Weapon Permit Law

          https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2599851

          The white homosexuals who like to boast about their political power are the ones who the control the California state legislature. They could repeal these racist laws if they wanted to. California WAS A “free state”. It is a slave state now.

          The former slave state of Mississippi is now a constitutional carry state. And the former slave state of Georgia has repealed many of its racist gun control laws.

          So yes I do hold accountable the living who are still as racist as the dead who wrote those racist laws. White homosexuals you want acceptance???

          Then earn it. Work for it. You don’t get it for free. Deal with it. You wanted the political power. So show the world you can be wise with your state power.

  12. Vegas.Sutherland Springs, and now this.

    Its becoming observable reality that it is open season on white Christians and their culture.

    • You are correct. They put a christian woman in jail because she would not sign a gay marriage certificate. And they are trying to take the private property away from a Christian baker. And put them in jail. They will kill them if they have to.

      • Though, there’s a difference between the two cases (as well as similarities, including that people in both cases went far out of their way to find someone who would refuse): The baker was a private citizen who was running a private business, and therefore has a right to freedom of association. In the marriage license case, it was a government employee who should have obeyed the law or resigned and worked to change the law.

      • So now the only Christians who will be allowed to work in government jobs are those willing to practice a watered down form of Christianity. Kind of like the Catholicism Nancy Pelosi practices while leading the fight for unlimited abortion on demand.

        • A government office is definitely the WORST place to decide to practice your religion. If you can’t do the work, don’t accept the paycheck. Whether you’re a county clerk or Speaker of the House.

        • This is why I say people who call themselves “socially Liberal” have NEVER SUPPORTED the Bill of Rights.

          But those same socially liberal people also supported the civil rights of the national socialists to march in Skokie Illinois.

          They also supported the right of the Klu Klux Klan to march in black neighborhoods in their Clan outfits while carrying guns. Interesting enough those same white socially liberal people have never supported the civil rights of black people to carry guns.

    • Yes, the Vegas shootings and the Sutherland Springs shootings which both occurred in very gun friendly states shows that lax gun laws don’t stop mass killing.The same goes for the Orlando club shooting, which had arm security guards and Florida is lax gun laws, but still over 40 dead in a mass shooting, so much for the pro gun argument that an armed population is peaceful.

      • And mass shootings in CA, Chicago, CT etc. show that strict gun laws don’t stop mass shootings either. So, if neither strict nor lax gun laws stop mass shootings, we are left with: Gun laws don’t stop mass shootings.

        • Well, yeah, but let’s remember!! They *DO* violate the Constitution and restrict freedom, so there’s that!
          Meanwhile, Orlando had armed guards? I think that’s wrong, unless you count the dozens of police sitting outside the door listening to the gunshots for 3 hours.

  13. White Christians…in a BAR?!? Sure guy’s. In better news:BREAKING! Ruth Bader Ginsburg fell,fractured ribs and is hospitalized. Why the Senate Trumps the House. At least antifaboy used a handgun😩

    • Yep. Bad fall. Broke bones. Time for her replacement to be warming up, ready to face rape and goat molestation charges from her supporters.

      • It can certainly help speed her exit.

        Broken ribs *suck*, big time. Hurts to breathe, hurts to twist your torso, hurts to stand up, sit down, etc. Hurts to move in general.

        Her famous exercise regime that she credits with keeping her healthy will be highly curtailed. Worse, if she catches a cold or the flu, coughing is agony. And that could give her pneumonia, and that could kill her.

        Take those pain pills, Ruthie. Addiction at your age isn’t good either…

    • The Lutheran brand of Christianity consumes adult beverages. Most non Christians, atheist, don’t know that.

      See the gun podcast: “The Armed Lutheran” for more details. Its a favorite of mine. And I’m not Lutheran.

  14. I recall that a few months ago some FBI agent was showing off his dance moves by doing a back flip. His legally carried pistol fell out of his holster. As he bent down to pick up the pistol, the pistol discharged. The bullet hit another person.

    https://youtu.be/YnoJ4uqUa1U

    I am a firm believer in gun rights. However; guns and booze dont mix. The BATF demonstrated this at Waco.

    • That is some video clip. Do you suppose he has had his gun removed? Been a while since I saw something quite so stupid.

  15. Marine with PTSD. Known quantity to the police. I guarantee his background is:

    – Government butters him up with an enlistment bonus and GI Bill, that sort of thing.
    – Ships him off to fight whichever pointless war is fashionable this week.
    – Brings him home, pats him on the back, sets him loose.
    – He’s pretty conflicted inside because of what he’s been through. Wife and kid leave him.
    – Then this happens.

    If the government is gonna hire you to kill on their behalf, they should at least provide a decent quality of healthcare for when you get home.

    • Yes, you are correct, the pointless wars in Iraq and Afghanistan plus our history of aggression around the globe have created a culture of violence that were ships death and distraction over humanity and compassion.

      And firearms manufacturers glorifying gun ownership coupled with trumps veto of mental health regulations on gun ownership will lead to more and more mass shootings.

      • The regulations were an abrogation of due process. Plus, pragmatically the parties affected by the regulations aren’t the sort to randomly shoot up a place. When’s the last time someone over 70 on government assistance went on a rampage? If you’re gonna pass laws, they should probably actually do something rather than just be grandstanding for a bunch of useless people in Hollywood.

        And sure, gun companies glorify guns – it’s called advertising and marketing. If you’re selling something, you glorify it. You create demand. Car companies glorify cars. Gun companies glorify guns. It’s a fundamental aspect of a market economy.

      • In a way it’s kind of nice to see the wacko scum bag leftists have finally given up trying to pin everything on George Bush.

        • And moved directly to everything is Trump’s fault! I can’t help but think things might have been better if we had had *any* real president in between.

    • It wouldn’t surprise me if such a thing becomes fashionable in the future. There’s been sci-fi novels which explore this exact premise.

      Look for “Black Man” aka “Thirteen” by Richard Morgan.

      In it, the main character is a genetically-engineered and highly trained supersoldier type. The government sends him off to fight conflicts (in the Middle East of course) and when he’s done with the wars, they basically throw him into an internment camp since he’s “too dangerous” to be left unsupervised in society. He only gets out by offering to do slave labor on Mars, and do some government dirty work.

      But yeah, expect “Marine bans” soon.

      • I think they already tried that, didn’t they? Wasn’t there a move to put all veterans on the NICS “prohibited” list?

  16. The fallout from this shooting should be monitored closely. Each time a false flag attack is carried out, the Left learns what it should do differently.

    LasVegas Massacre – Used a relative nobody with no motivation to hurt anyone. All this time has passed and we still know next to nothing about the shooter. No political affiliation.

    Demoncrat Bombs – None of the bombs went off. Nobody wanted to die as a pawn? Lesson was learned, this time they tied the bombs to a Republican, further demonizing the Right.

    This time, they are using a Marine, in tactical-like clothing. Proper shooting stance, proper tactical attack, gun and mags available from even California stores. Mag change was done in 6 seconds. It proves that the current laws are useless at actually preventing this from occurring, but it may lead to even tighter restrictions and possibly a crackdown on shooting ranges, tactical gear, and further idiotic gun laws. Anybody with tactical gear will now be either looked at with suspicion or attacked. Police will be called on those who otherwise would have no reason to open fire on police or anybody. Gunshows will be further restricted.

    Basically, this may be a tipping point. Hopefully not, but the Left is full of irrational thugs who already think all Trump supporters are Nazis who should be attacked. If they try and attack, us, we need to be prepared to defend ourselves, our friends, other POTG, and our gun rights from rabid leftists and the people they push into power

    • So you’re position is that this was another false flag operation, with 12 dad?

      Frankly, the idea of a person with your beliefs owning firearms is frightening.

      A belief without evidence is irrational, irrationality coupled with firearms equals disaster.

      • False flag attacks have been purpatrated before by our country. The most recent one being the Last Vegas shooting which was painfully obvious. Parkland is less obvious, but not by much. As for evidence, it’s more a lack of motive. What possible motivation would a Marine have to shoot up a place full of people? PTSD is not a valid reason either, because it makes people suicidal, not homicidal.

      • Forget false flag, Miner, read your own post and then tell me whether you believe any sort of gun control accomplishes ANYTHING positive. Because there clearly is zero evidence, over the past 50+ years.

  17. I think everyone is missing the point, what does this have in common with Las Vegas? Not bump stocks. Nope, country music. Most country music is pretty awful. Ban that, these shootings go away. Country music is not a right, and can be regulated.

  18. Funny how his happens less than 48 hours after a Maryland man is murdered by cops in his home during a RED FLAG TAKE HIS GUNS BECAUSE HE MIGHT BE CRAZY RAID.

    Muuuuuuuuuuuust control the narrative at all times.

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