By ST
You poor non-military gun owners must be frightfully confused regarding the Beretta M9/92FS handgun. On the one hand law enforcement and many civil gun owners all but love their examples. On the other, it’s the rare vet who echoes those sentiments, as many military members seen to all but run from the M9 and anything associated with Beretta. Stories of malfunctions, accidentally engaging safeties and weak stopping power associated with 9mm FMJ NATO seem to paint a less than flattering picture. Who’s right? Ironically enough, both parties . . .
I write this as just another prior service gun owner who just happened to be in a position to learn a thing or two about the maligned M9. Back when I was active duty I acquired my CCW permit as a bachelor enlisted member. That meant I legally had to store my carry pistol at the Air Force Base MP armory. So,when I left post and returned, I had to store my cased firearm with the Air Force armory staffer with the accompanying paperwork. Imagine handing over the last gun you bought to a complete stranger and not seeing it again for days at a time. That gives you a good idea of what it was like for me to exercise my rights at the time.
As I diligently carried daily despite the legal restrictions, I got to know the armory guys pretty well. In that capacity I gleaned a few tidbits of wisdom regarding the M9.
Problem number one; the M9s are the firearm equivalent to abused biker gang groupies. Twenty years ago, those M9s probably handled and shot like a proper Beretta. Then, Airman Snuffy was issued his. After that duty rotation Sgt. Schmuckatelli drew it, and then Colonel Nolube picked it up next.
After twenty years of strangers shooting, carrying ,clearing, loading, shooting, hammering tent pegs and occasionally cleaning them, the M9s in service today are in bad shape. Once the armory guy cleared an M9 and handed it to me. It was so loose it felt like duct tape and prayer were the only things holding it together. The tolerances were so bad I could send the locked back slide into battery by merely rocking the pistol once from back to front.
By comparison, a Model 92F I bought secondhand as an ex-LE trade-in handles like a dream. Tight tolerances, smooth action and dead-on accurate. It was made in 1987 and it never malfunctioned once. Neither has the purchased-new 2013 model 92FS that I carry now, 2000 rounds later. So when you hear a prior-service vet dog the Beretta, remember that he or she was the latest user of one very abused gun.
That brings me to the stopping power issue. Without setting off another caliber war, it’s safe to say no handgun can stop someone by sheer force of the round regardless of the caliber. While 9mm FMJ may not be the deadliest caliber ever conceived, I wouldn’t stand in front of one. Many insurgent scumbags who did are busy fertilizing soil as I type this.
Why all the complaints, then? I’d say most of them stem from the DoDs criminal lack of handgun training. Any attendee of an NRA basic handgun course has more experience with handguns then the typical non-infantry or military policeman. Remember that for every frontline assaulter there are ten support troops in various job categories, of which I was one. And in those jobs, pistol training is an afterthought. At best, it’s a box to be checked off on a unit deployment form…and sometimes not even then.
I know firsthand of two members of my squadron who deployed downrange with zero handgun time on the M9, and I’m not talking about Guam, either. Pistol training was considered an inconvenience by my unit leadership and I know we weren’t the only support unit with that attitude. But may God and Curtis LeMay’s ghost have mercy on your soul if you deploy without completing your Sexual Assault Deployment Briefing. Even if we did get some trigger time, it was all of 100 rounds total.
So you have people deploying to combat zones with lackluster to non-existent handgun training, issued ammunition which requires precise shot placement to stop a threat and it’s fired out of a metal-framed duty pistol with no or little basic maintenance over the course of two decades. Oh, and let’s use contract parkerized magazines which trap contaminants, too.
And folks wonder why there are problems. That’s why I have to chuckle at the idea that issuing (INSERT FAVORITE BRAND HERE) pistols would be better then the M9. Lend your Glock 17/HK USP/SIG P226 to Cletus for two decades, don’t change the recoil springs, slap in substandard ProMags and use it in the Middle East. I’ll bet it won’t do any better at all. It’s a sad fact that no matter how tough you make a gun, there’s an airman, marine, sailor, and soldier out there who can break it.
So with that background established, don’t write off the M9 – or that 92FS in your local gun store counter – just yet, despite the negative reports you may hear from our service members. I haven’t, and as I type this, my Beretta stands loaded and ready for the defense of myself, my family, and the mini-castle we inhabit.
You simply cant go wrong with a Glock 26 as an EDC. I have had a fair number of people ask me what I would recommend for a new CCW holder, I always recommend the Glock 26 first.
However, I have recently converted my EDC from Glock 26 Gen3( and sometimes a 19) to M&P 9c. I had tried to replace the 26 for something “better” (thinner, lighter, more capacity, better shooting, better trigger, etc) for a long time. Most recently, with the sudden proliferation of the carry 9 I tried many possible replacements. Nano, Sig 938, Kahr PM9, XDS 45, Sig P290 and a few others. I always stuck with the Glock until I had a chance to put several hundred rounds through an M&P 9c. Once the decision was made I sold every Glock except for a 29 that I carry while hunting and my first ever Glock, a 26.
I carried the 26 for years and I know that I can rely on it without reservation. That gun has thousands of rounds through it and it has never had a single failure. Not one. I just shoot the M&P better.
Thank you! Can you get a publisher interested in a re-issue? Maybe the owners of Savage Arms?
It’s public domain now. Anybody can print copies, same as “Frankenstein” or other old stuff. I don’t think Savage will want any part of it.
I bought a Beretta 92FS from Cabelas several years ago, at least 13 or so. It was dead nuts right out of the box and I put a couple thousand rounds through it with proper cleaning and lube. Never had a problem, not one. When my son got his CCW, I gave it to him and he carried it faithfully for a long time. When he married, his wife wanted to carry and now she has it. Only God knows how many rounds have been through it by now as both of them shoot a LOT. It is still dead accurate and not as tight but that’s because it is broken in.
Loved the article. Thanks.
If you consider buying a M9/92/96, etc., and you read gun forum reviews about the pistols, you will see Vets in particular bash the pistol. If you read enough, they’ll all say that the things were the worst guns ever, poor tolerances, horribly made, and so on.
But if you dig around, you’ll find the same comments about service issue M1911s, M1s, M1903s, and M16s. So if I ever get around to buying a 92 series pistol, and someone bashes it in a conversation to me, I’ll ask them “are you a veteran?”, and then I’ll take their opinion with a lot more skepticism.
And Manchin’s approval rating had dropped 20 points in the last two years.
Another major weak link is the magazine. If you leave the gov. issued 15 round magazines loaded for more than two weeks, you can turn the magazine upside and shake out the rounds. The springs are absolute garbage. One of our Platoon Sergeants had three mags fail on him in this manner during a fight in Baghdad. No good mister.
The Iraqi Police were being issued Glock 19s by us at the time, and they thought they were toys because of the polymer construction. I wish I could of traded them my M9…
Want a metal 9, haven’t decided between this and a CZ 75 variant of some kind. Thanks for the review, more info is a plus.
Both are excellent firearms. I’m somewhat partial to the CZ-75 because I like the ergonomics a bit better. I only had limited exposure to the M9 when I was in the guard, but I found it to be a pleasant shooter, reliable and user friendly. I personally think both guns are a tad heavy for EDC, but as far as a nightstand/range/target gun goes they are great. To be honest, I don’t think you would be disappointed with either pistol.
I have a CZ 75, too (stainless steel model-had a local gunsmith add Meprolight night sights). Nicest shooting 9mm in my collection. The aftermarket Mec-Gar mags with the blue followers work like a charm.
JhonnieB
Lancaster, PA
I’ve used and carried many of the weapons mentioned on this post. Of all I’ve used, and that includes SIG, I prefer the CZ SP-01.
For me the ONLY down side with that weapon is the less than perfect trigger pull on the stock version. But the trigger pull doesn’t affect my accuracy either in DA or SA. Never once experienced a FTF after many miles, and it makes me appear to be a more accurate shooter than I think I really am. It also configures well with a quick mount Tac light.
If inclined, you could have the trigger worked at CZ’s custom shop in AZ. I have not on the SP-01 because it’s not an issue for me, though I did have custom work done to a CZ 75 for trigger and sights; didn’t make enough difference to matter IMO.
For my hands the SP-01 is an ideal automatic handgun and my go-to choice for self defense carry whether concealed or open.
+1 on the SPO1 – in my nightstand as I type. Got the tactical version with night sights. Carries a light/laser. I always loved the 1911, and still covet several, but as a nightstand gun, the CZ is a tad easier for all of my family to use. Stunning ability to handle recoil – just makes it disappear. I simply cannot get my wife to the range, but she knows enough that all she has to in an emergency if I am gone or down is pick it up and squeeze the trigger… yeah, I know, it’s not optimum, but sometimes compromise is required.
But I have always loved the Beretta, at least since Mel in “Lethal Weapon”. That was a Beretta he used, wasn’t it?
I was less shocked by Manchin turning than by Pat Toomey. What’s worse (for me) is that Toomey is one of ours (PA). I expected Bob Casey’s spine to dissolve, but I Iiked Toomey. I still agree with him on many issues, but I’m not sure I can forgive him for Manchin-Toomey. Does anyone know if Toomey took Bloomberg money? I know our current State AG has.
I own two, and am in the process acquiring a third. It has great ergonomics, enough heft, is accurate and ~100% reliable. No gun is 100% reliable but the 92 is pretty damn close. I have a competition model with 1911 style frame mounted safety and a standard 92FS (inox version with nickeled barrel and adjustable rear sight). I’m getting another competition gun.
Fired a 1911A1 when I was on active duty with the Army (1970s), The pistols looked as if they were issued in WWII – loose, worn finish, worn magazines, etc. Fired every time I pulled the trigger. Had to adjust the rear sight to get onto center of mass, but that sucker fired every time and fed without jams. And there is a reason the SpecOps guys who can carry any pistol they want tend to pick the .45 cal.
And if you are shooting FMJ per the Geneva BS, a 230gr .45 caliber round beats the 9mm 147 gr hands down. I don’t care how many rounds the 9mm holds, if you have to shoot FMJ I would rather smack them with one .45 than three 9s.
End OFWG rant.
And if you are shooting FMJ per the Geneva BS
It was the Hague Convention, not Geneva. And the US never agreed to the provision against expanding ammo, even though we honor it for reasons unknown.
I remember the M1911 way back when I was a lieutenant, and not at all fondly. I was ecstatic with the M9 and have liked it since. I bought one 20 years ago and still have it. I don’t understand the nostalgia for the M1911. I like the caliber, but the design leaves a lot to be desired.
I’ve only had one failure to feed about a year ago on an issued M9 that I can recall. It rattled me on my pistol qual at the last stage, and I blew the last ten shots out of the black. Just barely missed expert, if I recall. Otherwise, it’s been a great machine to shoot with.
I also had a problem with magazine springs when I was in Iraq. I had to periodically remove the rounds from my magazines and disassemble the magazine and stretch the spring out, or the rounds would stick at the bottom of the magazine after the first round or two was removed.
A sergeant with my battalion in Iraq used his M9 while waiting for more 7.62mm ammo for his machine gun in the turret. Killed two with it. Got a Navy Cross for that engagement (which was more than just shooting two people with his M9). He is very happy with the M9. I met him several years later and he was pretty vocal about his support for the M9 and the 9mm round.
I love it! Nice work WI on the sign and the permits!
The 92FS was my first firearm. I love it. I have no ergonomics problems wirh it at all. BTW, one oft overlooked “feature” is the ability to load and fire single rounds without a magazine. Try that with a 1911.
Hey Dan! Please look up the words “then” and “than”. I trip and fall every time you misuse them. And, no, I’m not an English major. . .
I’m a vet, and I don’t really have a negative opinion, I was an armorer as a young soldier and saw both good and bad examples of the M9. If it’s in good shape, either new or properly cared for, they are an excellent example of engineering, if they’re abused, they suck, but what doesn’t? The mags, as others have mentioned are the biggest point of failure, I had a commander once that went through the company supply of mags and scrapped any that didn’t feed reliably, many of the bad mags had never been used. The other problem was a$$hats who insisted on dry firing a disassembled weapon that has an aluminum frame, a short browse through the elementary school reading level TM would prevent many problems.
Love the sign, to bad it not really on the roadside.
I was Army infantry way back in the early 80’s. I showed up with a Colt Combat Commander when I posted to Schofield Barracks, Hawaii. This immediately pissed off my new 1st Sgt (more paperwork for him). But, it immediately made the unit armorer a new buddy of mine. My issue weapon was a 1911, so having the Commander meant I must know what I was doing (mostly true). My new friend, the unit armorer, let me assemble the tightest pistol I could out of all the worn out, WWII vintage 1911’s we had. It was still loose compared to the Commander but, felt new compared to the other pistols in the arms room. Not a bad shooter either. I imagine this could be tried with the M9.
good on ya, Wisconsin.
Well said sir. I have been looking at the M9A1/92A1 models lately, now that they’ve been modernized a little bit and (I think) aesthetically improved. The new 92A1 Compact Inox has a particular “WOW” factor for me.
I never was a member of the service, so I can’t speak to experience there. But this I do know. My uncle in law, himself a USAF officer, owns a 92FS made in 1990 or 1991. To this day it has the STRONGEST magazine spring of ANY handgun I have ever handled, and I have handled many handguns indeed. I’ve fired probably 1500 rounds through it. Like Sigs, it has the ‘von Stavenhagen’ or dot-the-i sight picture I prefer over everything else. About the only downside is the very long DA trigger pull. It’s never malfunctioned that I’m aware of, although my uncle cleans his guns before putting them away after every shoot. I personally prefer the Taurus safety, and owned a PT945 in the late 90’s. It too was a pretty good gun that was marred by poor fit resulting in great difficulty firing the trigger DA, something that could have been remedied by custom grips, and more importantly, a very cheesy magazine floorplate design that looked to disassemble itself at the slightest impact (and indeed, did when I inadvertently dropped the mag with my middle finger (yes you read that right). The Beretta (and Taurus) 92 platform had no such issues, being a double stack magazine. Just the really long trigger pull and the push-up-to-release safety in the Beretta.
Although there are other guns I’d rather have for the same coin now, I’d not feel one bit insecure with the 92/M9, and indeed they remain my favorite platform for both Beretta and Taurus semiautos.
Tom
Sigh. How much to rent the WI DOJ and send them to IL for a year to handle what is sure to be the biggest fustercluck in CCW permits the nation has yet seen?
S&W produced Walther PPK.
Same for me: S&W PPK/s. Total turd: changed extractor, but it jammed no matter what you ran through it. The backstap chewed the hell out of my hand, making it near unshootable. Funnily, never had this issue with FEG knockoffs in .32, .380, or 9 Mak.
I was a RA Small Arms Tech and serviced 1000’s of infantry weapons, 90% of all breakdowns are user caused.
I serviced 40 year old 1911’s yet I rarely had to repair them and I did not see the wear and damage you describe w/M9s. The Army and USMC had depot repair facilities which brought back aging weapons to ‘as new’ condition perhaps the USMC is using it’s repair facilities for more vital weapon systems, letting the M-9 languish. As for me I left the 1911 and went straight to a G-17 and have not looked back.
PS
For future reference; it is very poor form to address your readers in a diminutive manner in the 1st sentence of your article
Bryco .380
/hangs head in shame/
Moisin with a sticky bolt.
Kel-Tec Sub 2000 in .40 S&W; blew up. Yeah, I know, I know….
http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z424/Texheim/IMG_0780.jpg
Remember when President George Bush sent out all those $600 checks to certain very luck people to help stimulate the economy? I was one of the lucky ones. The same day I got that check in the mail Gallery of Guns had Italian Police M9s listed for….. $600. Pro or Con, it was my first pistol and stimulated the economy. I think of it as a personal gift from the President. I always wanted to write him a Thank You letter. I’ve never regretted the purchase but I do need to replace the plastic guide rod for a new metal one.
It’s a big pistol without that big pistol punch. If I was going to carry an oversized 9mm, it wouldn’t be an M9 or FS92.
I think that the M9 suffers by comparison with the .45. Soldiers will always want the more powerful gun.
Call me paranoid, but the whole stab the dummy thing could feed into the whole “crazy gun nut” perception problem among the fence-sitters. Just seems poorly thought out to me. If the idea is simply to start the stage from a position of not being prepared to shoot, I think they could do better.
Then again, for those of us who don’t live with our panties in a twist, it is humorous… 🙂
I see there are a lot of people running fixed rifle stocks, may it be Magpuls or ACE. I also see a lot of variable scopes. There these the typical 3 Gun gear?
Do folks like that ACE skeleton stock? Been thinking about getting one. Hate having a folding stock that can’t fold.
I’ve owned over 100 firearms of various makes yet I have few problems, even with my cheap guns. My Jennings functions perfectly, my friend’s Jennings fired 1000s of rounds before the frame cracked. A few of my 1911s don’t feed the dinner plate 45 HPs and I have either changed the ramp angle or switched bullet type, I did have one Colt Trooper that was bad from the factory. Even my two Stars are reliable, after a bit of tuning. The most disappointing firearm I currently have is a Stevens 308, at 6-7 pounds it kicks like a mule.
One of the first handguns I fired was a 92FS rented at a local range. It had been thoroughly cleaned the night before and I put the first 50 rounds through it that day. Three failures to fire and seven stove pipes later, I was sorely disappointed and haven’t touched anything made by Beretta since. I fired Sigs, Bersas, Glocks, and H&Ks before finally realizing the 9mm round just didn’t click with me. I now focus on the .45 acp and .357 magnum cartridges and delve into 9mm if, and only if, Lugers and P38s are the potential purchase. To each his own.
I agree with bontai Joe. Clearly this gun isn’t designed for long rang precision. Like most SBR’s this weapon is most likely designed, much like the corner shot, for a special purpose. Being former infantry I can see where this weapon would be useful in an urban opperation. When dismounting vehicles and clearing buildings worrying about the roids dropping sub sonic is not an issue. When your farthest shot is most likely within 50 yards this weapon could be quite effective. IF and only if they perfected the design of the bolt carier group. Now im not advocating every member of your fire team be carying one but it could have its uses.
When God made him a fool, He gave him the face of a fool. Frosh probably smells of Brie and stale urine.
“…it’s the rare vet who echoes those sentiments, as many military members seen to all but run from the M9 and anything associated with Beretta.”
Wow, who T-F- are you asking? You have some hard-core pool of three guys who absolutely hate it?
I carried the M9 every waking-hour of my deployment in Iraq, and bought my own INOX (and other Berettas) after I got home, and I’ve never had an issue with any of them. And 9mm JHP is every bit as effective as higher calibers, despite the moaning of 45acp-whores who never hit what they’re aiming at, anyway.
Get over yourselves.
You do know that 45 JHP has been available for quite time? Right?
I own every pistol I’ve ever bought/been given… Hmmmmm. Never had a problem with my little Jennings J-22, but, I don’t carry it. I’ve had to replace the extractor and firing pin on my Davis Industries P380. I just fire her today after firing pin replacement, and she worked fine, but I would say she’s given me the most trouble. I wouldn’t carry her every day either, nor with a round chambered.
Noooo!
Why couldn’t he have taken Feinsteine instead?
You cant kill the crypt keeper, at least not by traditional means 😀
3rd gen Glock 19. Got blue label while I was active duty. Got 2 stovepipes in the first magazine through it, thought it needed broken in or maybe cheap ammo. Got I think 3 different brands of ammo, all brass, We put 300 rounds through it in one range trip to try and break it in. It shot INCHES to the left at 7 yards, by multiple shooters so it wasn’t my trigger pull. It malfunctioned 7 more times in those 300 rounds, 6 stovepipes and inline stovepipes and one double feed.
Took it to a Gander Mountain, and it turned out that the ejector in it had been recalled, so I spent I think $40 to send it back to Glock. It came back with the exact same model ejector.
I traded it in toward an M&P, which ran like a champ. The slide ended up rusting about 2 years later but Smith replaced the whole slide for free, they paid shipping both ways, took about 8 days. Got a great deal on the M&P because it was the breast cancer edition and was $100 cheaper than any other version, and it came with a fiber optic front site.
Ignore that loud chorus of “La la la” you’re hearing. That’s just the Glock fanboys plugging their ears to continue avoiding the reality that there is no perfect gun and everything fails every once in a while.
Masterful writing by ST! … (Who is ST by the way?).
I only own one, in the process of getting my second of three. But the worst iv ever fired was a Glock 19. Went through two mags worth and had four stove pipes, and a failure to feed. However that may have been more on the ranges shoddy maintenance then the gun.
Remington 522 viper .22 damn thing won’t eject replaced ejector ejector plunger and spring and it still will not eject correctly.
Mr. Clancy was a great author, and he was one of the precious few artists/public figures who supported the Second Amendment & the shooting sports. May God rest his soul.
My worst one was my first one: A Chiappa/Puma 1911-22.
Total POS. I could not (and frankly still can’t) believe that a business could get away with selling a product that functioned as poorly as that thing. FTE, stovepipes, FTF, you name it. THEN one day the barrel bushing broke in half and sent the mainspring and guts down range.
Terrible CS when I sent it in.
A few hour of polishing and tweeking and I have up to the level of “barely acceptable”.
Seriously, how do gun manufacturers get away with that crap? If a dishwasher performed that badly you can bet the call volume to the BBB would be huge and the lawsuits would be flying. Why do we give gun companies a grumble and a pass?
This “senator” does not deserve to sport facial hair which signifies identification with the male of the species. He should have his epaulets ripped, his sword broken, his mustache shaved off, then be shipped off to Devil’s Island. Au Revoir!
Weatherby PA-08 12ga pump. I was given one as a gift a few years back and the rib was canted to the right all the way down the barrel. I sent it back to Weatherby and after getting the runaround it took 8 months to get a proper replacement barrel from their licensed manufacturer in Turkey.
It’s a pretty gun for the price point and very pleasant to shoot, but the quality and service I got left a bad taste.
Or, if ever asked in a survey, in any form, the answer is “No”. Sorry, they don’t need to know. Otherwise you end up on some idiots iPhone app map…or worse.
But this is the Land of Lincoln the Power Hungry. No need to ask when the government has databases on everywhere.
My worst one was a Taurus TCP. It broke twice within a year and less than a box of ammunition between failures. Ended up selling that junk and getting away from all things Taurus.
Pommie b@st@rd. Good riddance.
i vote we buy him a one way ticket to china
A Stoger Luger in .22 lr.
Davis .32
I think you meant to ask if CNN was ready to drop the hammer on Pierced Organ or whatever his name is.
…very well written – I think I’ll steal it for my office!
Find out today that Springfield armory still has not figured out how to fix it! No ETA for return! Warranty states if one or more part found to be defective, Springfield will provide a new, repaired or reconditioned ( their choice) a replacement. Well I believe the gun design itself to be defective so that would lead to only one option, refund but I doubt that will happen without a class action suit! 1/4 million guns, $600 average price , 150 million dollar liability to them. Suspect we will get 18 pound triggers prior to seeing one dime back. Springfield, if you are mining social media, offer up 1911 45s with the same serial number as an alternative as a factory replacement. Will lesson your liability costs. Mine has been there for 30 days now with no end in site !
This guy and everyone like him can simply go F themselves. I’m so sick of these fools.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
About 50 minutes long, but a great video on not talking to the police.
Wait… students are already armed with… fists! It’s an implicit threat! They can pummel each other for no apparent reason! Restrain their fists with handcuffs on campus and the threat will be neutralized. No fists at Duke!
I really don’t understand why universities bother with these polices. The fact is that the vast majority of their students are under 21 and not qualified to carry, and that may of the students over 21 are graduate students, not known for their wild antics, or students returning after military service (who presumably have some level of firearms training).
Well I have a 99 year old 1911, my grandfather kept it as payment for his leg in the Pacific Theater, I also own a 92A1 While I like the 18 rounds it carries the fact that my old Colt is much more reliable than my finicky Beretta, it will stovepipe ever third round or so, sure I don’t have to drop the magazine nearly as often as I do with my Colt, but I can put seven rocks down range with less issues than the jam factory that is my 92
Is it just me or was the Slo-Mo BAR kinda NSFW porn?
A perfect title, since these were the guns that did all of the shooting.
I heard she had a baby in the car…thank Jeebus it wasn’t a dog.
Hey do any of you guys have some good pics of Mosin Nagant bore pics, I would like to see if the rifling on my Mosins are in good shape or on their way to be worn out. I do the bullet test from time to time and the round doesnt show any signs of sinking deeper into the crown , its tight every time. but the lands of the rifling arent as crisp as some other I’ve seen online and the bore is also still shiny. can you guys give me some opinions?
hmmmmm… failure to eject. not sure that weapon is 100% reliable. In the future, I would like to see the star system utilized so we can get an accurate overall rating…
fire the guard. make it public and brutal
Actually Mr. Simmons, the drop in crime will happen fairly quickly.
I am a college student in a high crime California city. My college actually has a great security force. We have at least 2 cruisers on campus at all times, both with shotguns and AR-15s in the car. We also have emergency phones located all over campus, so you are never further than 100 feet from one. Response time is usually 30 seconds or less. It’s a small campus.
Of course, that doesn’t help when a school shooter starts going from classroom to classroom. I don’t expect any heroics from those college security guards. And that is why I carry a can of bear spray in my backpack at all times. It’s not as good as a gun, but I won’t get in trouble if I get caught. The penalties would not be nearly as high as if I had a glock in my backpack, and I can always use the “I just got back from camping” excuse.
Also, bear spray is very effective. 30 foot range, which means that I can cover the door of any classroom from behind cover. And when you get hit with the stuff, you are not going to be an effective threat anymore. Not as good as a gun, but a close second.
Seriously… some of you guys are OK with a woman and her kids being shot at over a speeding ticket?
A scrap of paper… you don’t sign that under the instructions of the police and they can shoot you?
Yeah, yeah – they weren’t shooting at her and her kids – they were shooting at the van. But I seem to remember someone once telling me I should never point a gun at something I didn’t intend to take life from and that I needed to be aware that bullets can bounce. So how come those rules apply to us but not to them?
Also, is it standard practice to shoot at a fleeing suspect? I’ve never been an LEO and have only known a couple, so that’s an honest question.
I have never heard of anybody getting a custom sidearm made of the M9 like folks do of the 1911. Also, if it’s such a great firearm, then why is it not a sot after like a Colt or other 1911’s? Also, a military 1911 draws a huge price while a M9 the price of scrap.
No Wilson Combat is now making customized M-9s and specialized M-9s. I keep reading here GIs who have no problems with the M-9!
Give it time the 1911 had a 70 year jump on the m9. Plus there are people who order highly customized versions of the 92FS and this will only continue to grow. I was in during the late 80’s and was witness to the M9’s first test in a combat theatre (Panama). I was envious of the oldtimers who were allowed to carry the 1911 because they were grandfathered in. The group I was assigned to pretty much allowed you the pick of several small arms both pistol and rifle; however because I was a FNG I had to carry the M9 but did get to carry the very handy HK MP5. My envy quickly wained after I was envolved in an enemy contact situation and witnessed the lack of accuracy from the 1911 leading to several of my team mates suffering very close calls or non fatal injuries while the situation didn’t call for the extreme rapid fire fom my MP5 my M9 accounted for my ass remaining unscathed. While I will agree all day long with the so called superior stopping power of the fmj 45 it’s a moot point when you can’t connect with your target. Leason learned…..there is no substitue for fast accurately place firepower and this may account for the majority of operators choosing a 9mm over a 45 in most mission dictated situtions because they practice enough and have unlimited budgets when it comes to ammo procurment which unfortunately regular Army or other branches do not.
Was issued the M9 in the Corps. Shot at Far East Division matches in Okinawa, ’bout 1992 timeframe. One of the most accurate “stock” pistol I have shot. Did not like the long DA trigger, nor the frame mounted safety. The real problem, especially in the fine sand of Saudia Arabia and Kuwait, were those damn magazines that were always bound up with grit and spring issues! For uniformed carry, who cares about the size. As for 9mm vs. (you name the caliber, in FMJ), well, absolutely nobody will take my self designed test to observe the effectiveness of _ vs _ (you name the caliber). You probably have an idea of what the test entails!!!! Cheers!
I find this article to be spot on. I too carried the famed 1911A1 in the military for six years. My first handgun purchase shortly after my 21st birthday in 1975, was a Colt Mark IV series 70 Government. Still have it today. My civilian model has always been much better that the one I was issued in the military. Still is! Last year, I bought a Beretta M9. I love this gun every bit as much as the 1911’s… maybe more. Contrary to what others may say or believe… I DO NOT find the Beretta to be a huge monster! It’s just a tad bit wider than the 1911… but it’s lighter in weight.
While in the military, we were trained on the 1911A1 to carry with the hammer down on an empty chamber. And I’ve carried my personal 1911 the same way for the past 40 years! Being a big fan of revolvers for personal defense, I found the Beretta, with the DA/SA trigger, to be very appealing. Cause if I ever have to pull my handgun, I don’t want my nervous finger resting on a 4lb trigger! I can carry the Beretta hammer down on a live round… just like a revolver. I find that very comforting.
My Beretta M9 is just as accurate (maybe more so) than my Colt 1911. It has become my favorite range gun, and as soon as I can find a nice holster for it, it will become my primary carry gun. Been thinking of retiring my Colt. Like I said earlier… I do not find the Beretta to be a big, huge, heavy monster. But just like the 1911 (or any other large framed gun), you have to learn to work with it.
Personally, I think going to the M9 for a carry gun will be a piece of cake.
I have had a 92fs for over 20+ years! what a great gun!
I have never had a issue with the 92, we’ll over 5k rounds put thru her with all the factory parts still intact, I like it so much I just ordered another one, this one is stainless “inbox” and very
Sweet looking……I also carry a glock 17 gen4 & a FN57 along with a Beretta px4 compact that I am not a big fan of, the 92fs
Is a great gun.
I will say, I am prior service and do not enjoy the M-9. I understand your first thoughts, but as someone who stood up the unit I was in, we picked up the armory, yes every firearm, brand new in wooden crates. The M-9s were only given to officers, and that took a year and a half. On the first outing, we had 2 of them that our armorer had to take because of the triggers falling apart. To be fair, I also am not a fan of many military arms. I just wanted it to be known that not all problems were due to abused firearms, and I believe what is issued to our troops is of lesser quality than what you can purchase yourself.
This article is spot on. I spent 22 years (80-02) in the Marine Corps as a armorer (MOS 2111) and serve as the Senior Marine Instructor for the Smalls Arms Repairmen school at Aberdeen Proving Grounds, MD as a Gunnery Sergeant. As a young “boot” Marine, the M1911A1 was my T/O weapon. These pistols were old as dirt. Accuracy consisted of shooting a group, then place your black pastee’s opposite of that group as your aiming point. So you could hopefully hit black. We had a Technical Instruction that allowed you to cross reference the serial number and the year the weapon went into service. The oldest one in my armory had started service in 1937. When we converted over to the M9, it was night and day. The M9 was point of aim, point of impact. I’m sure by now those M9’s are now POS just like the M1911A1’s when I first holstered one. My personal caliber preference would be the 9mm over the .45. It’s simple for me…..higher magazine capacity. Give me 15 rounds over 7 any day of the week. I currently carry the Beretta PX4 Storm compact in 9mm. Sweet shooting pistol, with minimal recoil with the rotating barrel system. Semper Fi….Gunny Out!
I carry a PT92fs Regularly. IWB with a either a savoy leather or a custom tuckable leather holster. No issues, i am 5’10 and 200lbs
I carried a beat to hell m9 as an MP and I wasn’t to impressed with it. However when I got out and had the opportunity to buy my first gun I bought my Uncle’s 92fs that he carried as a LEO. It was a handgun I was familiar with and he made me a heck of a good deal. The 92fs I bought off of him was in much better shape and after a few trips to the range I changed my opinion. I love my Beretta. I don’t know about carrying that as my CCW when I get my permit, but she is a great shooter, easy to maintain, and fits just right in my hand. I’m young, but I am old school and I will be carrying a little old .38 special as my pocket gun.
I’ll echo Gunny’s response above. I joined the USMC right before the transition to the M9. As a tanker, I was required to qualify and carry a pistol. The first pistol I used to qualify was the M1911. You can replace M9 with M1911 in your article and it would have been exactly the same in 1986. I’ll take an abused M9 over an abused M1911 any day.
As a Veteran, I have no issues with the M9. I agree that the vast majority of stored inventory in the Army and the Navy, is old, and abused. However working as a rangemaster over the years, keeping a supply of M9’s off to the side, with the Ammo detail, being cleaned as we go (qualification) has enabled me to keep Soldiers putting rounds down range all day every day. Biggest problem in my opinion is “hot-seating” weapons. 99% of the time, I opened a range with about 50 M9’s laid out at at around 30 lanes with extra on standby. The majority of Joe’s showed up, walked to a lane, fired their “Q” and walked away. Only officers and Medics would come through and have their own sidearms. After about two or three courses of fire, we would be swapping weapons out every single “Q”, various issues contributed, heat, brass shave buildup, excessive lubricant to get that “Last” table fired off so we don’t hold up the line. There was the human element of course, as mentioned in your article…100 rounds fired every 6 months? Undertrained Joe’s and even officers resulted in poor shooting technique, failed “Q’s”, Stovepipes from “limpwrist”, unsat safety issues from nervous Joe’s, not keeping weapon pointed up and down range etc. All the while, these beat up old 9’s pouring hundreds and hundreds of rounds downrange every day, somehow we got the circus out of town, then GI’d the crap out of these dinsosaurs for a whole day. Then in 6 months? rinse and repeat. Thats why I respect them, they have taken a beating, and will continue too, even as I know my 14 year old son might end up firing a weapon downrange in 10 years that I myself handled 20 years previously. This is why when I chose to buy a handgun for my home, I went with the M9/FS-92. The only gripe I have about the thing is the plastic spring guide rod, it tends to get a little flacid on days pushing 110 degrees when I’m shooting in the desert, not wilting persay, but it is certainly a lot more supple after a few hours, think: “stiff garden hose that wont stretch to your car in the morning, but after laying in driveway till noon after your car wash, thing is soft as old leather, and rolls right up”. Now, thats not really a gripe, I mean; I COULD go buy a steel replacement, but any Army vet here will tell you; we live by the old adage: “If it ain’t broke…”. All that being said, this is the only handgun i will ever own, although I have spent some serious time in a local range on a Glock and H&K 40 and 45, just love the “punch” sometimes. It is also a fine weapon for my wife to use, she’s comfortable with the “Kick” and I have been training my Oldest Son on it this year as well, his fingers are a bit short, he still has to use his weak side thumb to operate slide etc, but he’s getting the hang of it, and in a year or so he’ll be completely operating that 9 with his firing hand only, safety, slide lock, slide release etc…I won’t be teaching him advanced “racking procedures” for sometime so he will still have to rack it with his weak hand:) As a Vet, and a former small arms instructor, for the Army, Navy, Marines, CID and Federal Security Forces, I highly endorse this weapon, and I’m here to agree with you, I love it in a personally owned capacity.
I never cared for them in the USMC. Same exact reasons posted by the author. I reluctantly tried one many years after my service to find that they are extremely nice pistols. Fit and finish are superior, and it was extremely accurate; more accurate than my Glocks. Needless to say I bought one, and have been a Beretta fan since. My current favorite and main stay is a 96a1. If you based your opinions on the 92/96 based on your military service do your self a favor and pick up one and give it a spin. I’m sure your perception will change quickly. Then do your self one more favor by installing the D hammer spring. Lightens DA pull by 4 lbs. No idea why they don’t come with that spring stock. Enjoy
As an active duty Marine, I can agree with most of what the author wrote in his piece. Yes, the M9’s, M16’s and M4’s get abused, tossed around, issued and re-issued all the time. I.E. they are not properly maintained for the level of use they get. In one week on the range I’ll shoot around 1000 rounds from practice all the way to qualification.
What I don’t agree with is the snide comment about the P226 being on equal ground as the M9. I own both. I have my own personal M9, that I bought brand new and yes, it’s night and day compared to my issued one. I also bought a P226 in 9mm. That is by and far a much better handgun than the M9. Better overall balance, better accuracy, better ergonomics and a MUCH better trigger. The only thing the M9 wins out on over it is the price tag.
Thats your opinon. I shot M-92FS for year been more accurate better grip and is better size than a dinky SiG.
When clearing bunkers back in 1989, I found cases of the baby version of this pistol. I thought it was kind of messed up that I had to carry a Beretta when we hit state side. They shoot well but I don’t see why American soldiers should shoot the same thing that was sold to Sadam.
When the 1911 was the issued sidearm it too was maligned. During the sixties we were issued World War Two rattle traps manufactured by the Remington Rand Type Writer Company. Love my civilian Berettas and 1911s as well as others
Bought a 92 A-1 over a year ago; it’s my favorite pistol to shoot. It has never malfunctioned in over 2000 rounds, and the recoil is very mild. Have since bought a PX-4 and Nano. Beretta makes very good firearms that most working folks can afford.
An ol’ revolver & contender shoot’n country guy here. I even like old hammer-shotguns, So a move to the 92′ just felt natural. Wow, an AUTO that Feels & Shoots nearly like a revolver! Even that ‘Half-Cocked’ hammer feature is an un-respected-safety plus. Points naturally & accurate – just don’t like the ‘Banana’ trigger (not enough curl)(the Taurus may be better there along with the ‘safety’ lever). Shoots all the 9’s I put-en-er!
Hey guys, a great chat you got go’n here! Some fine experience to ‘Respect’. Brings back Dad’s Army tales of Korea (Frozen 45’s, M1 & M2 Carb’s. & hardly any ammo to spare). Yea, the old Vets seldom had any good to say of the ’45’ and the ammo wasn’t so great either! Atleast some Marines are now get’n ‘New 1911A1’s’ (45’s), Stainless Steel & Match Grade (Painted Tan/Brown). A few Service People even get an M11(Sig 9mm) or even M9A1’s so this handgun chat should really get stirred up now.
Hey Guys I wanted to chime back in here, the Beretta 92’s have a fascinating history that is easily studied on this I-net. The M9s, Brigadiers, Vertecs & others up to the newer A1’s are not guns simply ‘Bought’ from Beretta. These are countless upgrades & modifications generally ‘Requested’ by the Military, Gov’t.s, & Law En. Agencies around the world. Beretta (since the Walther P-38) has simply answered those demands with fine firearms as well as all the production & support facilities in many countries (including the US & I believe a new Tennessee plant). As civilians/citizens, we are blessed with fine & proven firearms at modest cost. Faults we have with them are not generally to blame on Beretta but the spec.s imposed on them. It seems that even every tiny detail of them has a special story.
Hammering in tent pegs?!?
I bet medical officers reports along the lines off -”Subject shot him/herself with their sidearm while using it as a tent deployment device”- can still raise a snigger in some circles.
I have been a reserve with our Sheriffs dept for over 25 years, I purchased my 1st 92 at the suggestion of my brother who sold guns to most local law enforcement personnel. When are dept transitioned from revolvers to semi auto pistols I took my 92 and passed all our training with only one problem. A squib load, bad reloads our dept gave us, other than that never a malfunction, misfire etc. I purchased a 92 g when they were available and have been carrying it for the last 16 years without a problem what so ever even when not cleaning or lubing as often as it should. I fire the gun all the time, qualification every month, extra training every month, range time every month, off duty desert shooting every month. I also used it in undercover , yes it is a little large and not the most concealable but it has never failed yet! Thank you Beretta! Keep up the good work, as soon as possible I will be looking at purchasing the M9A3.
I bought a 92 FS-B (as they were known then) in 1985 before the M9 became standard issue. It was a fantastic pistol, and I owned it for 10 years before I traded it on a SIG 228. I should have kept it, and often wish I had. I was issued M9s often. I was Infantry, and in an Infantry company, there are not really a lot of pistols actually. I was confident with the M9 and think it was a great service pistol. The best? That’s hard to qualify. Not sure the M16/M4 I carried for 24 years was the “best”, but it was excellent for it’s intended purpose, just as the M9 is/was. I found that those that complained about the M16/M4, M9, M249, M60, M240, etc, etc, etc usually didn’t know that much about small arms, what they were for, and how to maintain and shoot them. Most competent, professional soldiers worry more about training and use more than fashion anyway. No problems with the M9, other than operator headspace and timing. For those of you that have actually timed and headspaced an M2 heavy barrel Browning machine gun, you will know what I’m talking about.
I own two Beretta 92 pistols: Inox Brigadier and 92A1 Italian. Besides I own handguns made by Glock, HK, Sig, Ruger, S&W. I shot a lot, almost every week-end no less than 300-500 rounds each range visits. I could say for sure 92 are best of the best in any respect. Besides accuracy, low recoil, great in hands etc – they are looking amazing! I modified mine with parts from Wilson Combat, Wolff and VZ, they are stunning pistols now and I am glad I could own them.
I own lots of hand guns including Sigs, Kimbers, S&Ws and Glocks. I know first hand that the reason non-sof soldiers complain about the M9 is because most of them cannot shoot. I have seen guys shoot a terrible qual and look at their M9 and get mad at the gun. More than once I have taken their gun from them and shot a perfect 300. The M9 is an outstanding shooter and I have only seen one or two malfunctions when guys left their magazines filled to capacity for an entire deployment. Really, that is a magazine failure, not a weapon failure. Come to think of it, it’s a shooter’s failure. Mine were always very accurate. If the shooter does their part with an M9 that has not been run over by a truck, it is easy to shoot 6-8″ groups at 25 yards (and much less on a good day) with the M9 — better than my P226s
I am a Marine Veteran (1990-2000). Going through bootcamp, most of our manuals still had pictures of the M1911, though I never saw one, everything was the M9. Through most of my career, the M9 was my T.O. weapons. While in the infantry (0352), my T.O. weapon was an M249 SAW, which meant the Marine Corps also issued me an M9 (it used to tick off the Zeros and SNCOs at the range to see a LCPL qualifying with “their” M9). At the time, I was a big fan of the 1911, because I thought the .45 was superior (with no actual, real world reason for this). Meanwhile, all the while ragging on the M9, I had ZERO problems with it, and it served me well. Even in the fine, powder, red sand of Somalia. Maybe at the time the ones we were issued weren’t worn out like he discusses in this article, because all of mine had tight tolerances, excellent fit and finish (with some wear) and grouped well. I always noticed the magazines fit well, compared to the slop of the 1911 magazines.
The reason the military bad-mouths the M9 is because that’s what we do. We b*tch about every thing. I never heard anyone not b*itch about their weapon and gear. Whatever you were issued, you b*tch about it. The M16A2 was a P.O.S. if you asked anyone that carried them, yet I never saw one jam (except for when shooting blanks and a few “well no sh*t, private!” moments that I saw. I never had one jam, personally. Yet, it was the worst thing ever made if you asked any of us. Same with the M249. Everyone complained. Mine never malfunctioned, though. As one other poster commented, I’m pretty sure every one who has ever carried a M1911, M1903, M14, M1, Mauser, Bertheir, SMLE, Brown Bess, etc, has b*tched about how bad it sucks.
Nowadays, I love all guns and don’t discriminate, except for the few guns I’ve used that malfunction. If it works, I like it. I use Glocks, M&Ps, CZs, FNs, Berettas, HKs, Walthers, and anything else I can get my hand on. (Sorry SIG, I have little experience with them).
It weights over 2lbs unloaded which is more than a framing hammer so there was no need to leave it loaded to pound tent pegs. The weight was always my biggest issue with this gun. When I had a side arm it was because I was carrying a belt fed or a bolt action long gun. I despised carrying 4lbs of useless weight. That’s 2 quarts of water I would have loved on a few days LP/OP. Civilian now and my Glock with high cap mags, light and Tritium sights weights about the same as the unloaded M9. Not arguing Glock > anything else. Try everything. …choose what works best for you.
Carried one as a secondary in the service. There were certainly some -9’s that were rode hard, I was always fortunate not to draw one. SOP was to decock and then safety off once holstered. It’s simple and intuitive to draw and fire in double action at that point. I was always issued 124gr +P JHP’s, so no issues with ammo conceptually speaking. Anything over 400ft lbs and has good penetration is good to go. Now, I have an M9a1, a G17, and a P07. The M9a1 has the smoother action and more predictable trigger, the P07 the smallest and crazy accurate, the G17 somewhere between the two. The target doesn’t care what I’m carrying, so it’s just a preference for what fits me better. Which is the M9 for me.
The M9 or 92FS works well for a sidearm or it would not have been adopted by Military and Law Enforcement. Plain and simple fact. Is it the “best” ??? Maybe and maybe not. Would 100% consensus on whether or not every shooter prefers the pistol over all others be possible? The answer is no. I personally like it alot. I had one in my military duty and I own one which I carry daily in law enforcement. Are there other pistols on the market well suited for duty? Absolutely. I like many brands and models. I carry the M9 or 92FS because I like it. I don’t have to carry a glock. I don’t have to carry a Sig. I carry what I prefer as an individual. I like my pistol. It isn’t plastic. I can change grips. I can change lots of things on my personal pistol. The safety gets a bad rap on the Beretta. Most don’t understand HOW to carry the pistol in manner to prevent the safety from engaging itself coming out of a holster etc. When you chamber the first cartridge, with the safety OFF, back that hammer up slowly until you hear one click, and that happens at just a couple of millimeters travel. The safety will then not engage into the SAFE position but the hammer will appear to be fully down. It’s a sort of half-cock notch designed for this purpose. The hammer will appear fully down. In this way the safety is prevented from being casually bumped from FIRE to SAFE. It’s designed to be carried safety off, round chambered, hammer not at full cock. The long-pull of the trigger on the first shot is the actual safety feature. The safety lever is a decocking option. The pistol is a good one. Very excellent pistol. Other pistols can be excellent too. As an individual, you can carry what YOU like. As a squad member, you generally carry what the squad carries so everyone can use everyone’s ammo and magazines; and also maintenance and spare parts are also easily addressed. The M9 worked OK for military use. Eventually they wear from use, that’s a given. It’s a good pistol for a variety of missions and I like it so I carry one. I can hit with mine, so I carry it. I like it. I like several other guns too. But I carry this one.
It’s quite easy to perceive from the comments who has served in the profession of arms with this pistol and those who read guns and ammo articles and regurgitate what someone else said. I used this firearm (Beretta 92) for 21 years in 3rd Special Forces Group. I trained with and used this weapon in any and every situation that exists. I trust my life with this pistol. I suppose I advocate this weapon because it is the only pistol I/we trained with and deployed with. We had the unique opportunity with pistol that a civilian will almost never get…massive round count. I estimate I was given 12,000-18,000 rds a year to train with. I could never identify any malfunction trends do to the weapon itself. All my malfunctions were due to magazine issues. It was quite common for us to leave mags loaded for a long period of time, if one doesn’t have a rotation plan/system, the mag springs will cause malfunctions. Most novice shooters do not even know about or account for this magazine consideration. The accuracy capability of this pistol far exceeds most shooters ability. Of the shooter has the time on trigger and uses solid fundamentals, the pistol will do its part. I have myself, and seen many shooters shoot a entire 15 round magazine at 1″X1″ pasties at 15 meters. (That is a eyeball shot) I don’t intend to sound boastful by stating that, just a illustration of what the pistol can do with the right man on the trigger.
Lot’s of good comments. I owned a Taurus PT 100 for 8 years before I joined the Navy and went to work the USMC for 10 years as a Corpsman. Therefore, I adapted well to the M9(just a different safety system). I learned the safety system and it became second nature to flip up on the safety while presenting the weapon.
I carried an M9 for two tours and bought one when I got home. It is large and bulky, but it’s very usable platform. If I need to conceal something in the summer, I slip my 2″, 5 shot .38 in my jacket pocket. Although, I’m about to pick up a 92FS Centurion. It looks like an interesting compromise : )
It is true that 80% or more military members DON’T get pistol training. My last five years I did with a reserve RECON company. While shooting on the range and covering the range, I was surprised how many Marines(RECON and H&S) had NEVER shot a pistol. But they got to hit the range several times a year with this unit. When we got a couple cases of Springfield 1911s, myself, one of the armorers and one other Marines were the only ones that knew how to tear it down and clean it. Luckily, I was medical coverage on one of the ranges with the younger armorer. I had to ‘unjam’ more than one of the new 1911s, lube it and get it back on the range for him. Both armorers had ‘been to a class’.
Pistol training should be mandatory at least twice a year for any military member. And, I believe, a safety and training class should be mandatory for anyone that wants to fire, purchase or carry a pistol.
I have to add that, while in the serving with the USMC, I shot expert all but two trips to the range. And those were my fault (not taking my time at 25yds). And I qualified more than 10 times in ten years(Every chance I got to go the range!). The pistols issued for range use and deployments were a bit beat up looking, but always functioned. I kept mine clean(and minimally lubed in Iraq and Kuwait). I also emptied and cleaned out my magazines twice a week with a dry rag. I’m sorry if you got a badly worn out pistol. That’s your armorer’s fault.
On another note. I bought a G19 when they first came out. I was used to Colt 1911s. I had owned and shot a few by the late 1980s. I couldn’t hit S@$t with the Glock. A friend handed me his Taurus PT92 and I hit everything I aimed at. After my service time and years on the range, I bought another Glock. I shot the center out of the target with it. I found out that I just had to adapt the whatever weapon was in my hand and not expect that everything would point like a 1911. Luckily, the Beretta does. If you can’t hit the target with a Beretta, you just need more time shooting. Not everyone HAS to own one. Buy and shoot what you like. It IS large. But, it’s a good, accurate, reliable weapon. And if you’re required to carry one, learn to love it.
Thanks for this write-up. As someone who has shot a Taurus 92 and two milspec real 92s for decades, it explains a lot.
Love the 90 series, I’ve owned 3 in the last five years. Great article as well, first found it back in 2014 and I still come back and read through it again every so often.
As an active-duty Soldier who is also a proud owner of a flawlessly reliable Beretta M9A1, I agree with every word you said in this article. My Army-issued M9 and my privately-owned M9A1 handle as differently as night and day. The Army abuses the hell out of its M9s and then blames the gun when it doesn’t work perfectly, never considering the possibility that maybe its Soldiers need more firearms training.
You say you chuckle at people raving about the change from the M9 to something else in the military, but you said it yourself, the reason the M9 sucks in the military is that every one of them is over 30 years old. Getting new blood into the arsenal is a good if only because it is simply new equipment that has another 30 years before it is as reviled as the Beretta. Having shot both the sig 320 and both an old m9 as well as a newer 92, I can say there is a vast improvement in weight, capacity, and trigger pull as well as maintenance. In a military setting, all those things are very important (Except maybe trigger pull). Were we still being issued mint M9s that actually worked, one could argue that if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. But, as you said, time and use has made the M9 very broke, and given the opportunity, there are better military options on the market now.
In my lifetime, I’ve fired many different weapons and I don’t know how many thousands of rounds. Before steel shot became a requirement, I hunted ducks and geese with a .22 pistol simply because I was more accurate than with a shotgun. The point is, no gun is any better than the person holding it. I purchased my Beretta M9 several years ago as my CC weapon simply because I liked the feel of it in my hand and the reviews I’d read on it. I’m quite familiar with the caliber debate, size complaints, safety location, etc. Here are some things I’ve learned in my years of firearms usage. Let’s start with caliber. Proper shot placement is crucial! You can bring down a bull elk with a .22 if you put your rounds in the right spot. As for size, you have to remember you sacrifice accuracy and range the smaller you go. That’s why rifles are long range weapons and pistols are short range. I got cancer as a result of my military service and was medically retired when the treatment caused other complications. I’ve lost weight and muscle mass to the point of being a walking skeleton. I can still carry my M9 concealed. It’s a simple matter of holster and clothing choice. My gun was dead on accurate right out of the box and, because it’s so well balanced, I can still shoot a deadly group. As with any feature, the safety is a matter of practice. I can easily switch to fire with my thumb as I draw the pistol. The M9 is designed to be ambidextrous and the grips can be easily changed to fit the shooter. So, what am I saying here? When choosing a weapon, regardless of your reasons for having one, decide what you expect from the gun, do a little research, go to a gun dealer and try the fit and feel, and make your decision based on what meets your needs best – not on what’s cool or bad assed. Once you’ve made your decision, learn your weapon inside out and put in the range time to get comfortable and proficient with it. Keep it clean and maintained and, whatever choice you make will be right. Just as a side note, my M9 will outshoot a .45 of the same barrel length simply because the amount of powder used to propel the bigger slug causes more recoil and a looser group at ranges more than 15 – 25 yards. The bigger slug has more drop and, therefore, a greater amount of aim compensation as the range increases. Learn that double or triple tap technique and practice, practice, practice!
It isn’t sporting, huh? Well who died and made you arbiter of all shooting sports protocol? Really, you can pick any arbitrary point in history and its concomitant stage of technology, which appears to be exactly what he’s done here, and unilaterally declare that it is the most noble, fair, and sporting approach to hunting.
Next, he’ll start whining about scopes and their advantage over naked eyes, or windage & elevation adjustments and their advantage over intuitive feel. He may complain about firearms in general and their reliance on chemical explosives for propulsion, as opposed to the pure mechanical and more sporting weapons like spears, slings, and bows and arrows. Good grief.
He’s just anti-gun and making up excuses to oppose suppressors. In terms of intellectual honesty, he’s throwing a dart at the wall, then going and drawing a smug and self-satisfying bullseye around it. That, I find, to be unsporting.
I have some input on the current state of Beretta in general, and the 92 in particular.
My NEW Wilson Combat Beretta 92G Brigadier Tactical (action tuned/benched by WC) was sent back to WC yesterday (in my possession for under 24hrs), due to a dead tritium sight (minor issue), and frame to slide fit issues causing METAL SHAVING when hand cycled (FRIGGIN’ HUGE ISSUE !!!).
This is on a WC 92G BT (frame/slide produced by Beretta, to CLOSER tolerances & inspection oversights then “base” 92s, with WC machined metal parts in place of many “base” Beretta internals (Beretta receives parts from WC, and assembles).
WC receives firearm, inspects, benches/action tunes (for an addition cost), then distributes.
This was purchased for as my sons 26th birthday gift (He’s a 9mm guy).
I shoot/collect semi-autos (over 30 handguns), in .357 SIG, 10mm, 45acp, and 50AE.
You think I will EVER add a Beretta to my collection after this? HELL NO !!!!
Over $1400 with shipping/handling, and I have a thumb up my butt for his birthday on Saturday. Well done, thanks Beretta!
I’m a service member of 15 years and have shot piles of M9s, in and out of the service and the Taurus clones a couple times… some in decent shape. Many somewhat worn. Generally all the guns are just fine, if worn and a bit sloppy. The magazines are beat to death however, and the vast majority of any issues encountered were magazine induced. Their DA trigger pull is long and hard… but makes ADs less of a thing… and follow on SA pulls are decent. Accuracy is fine for a service weapon with fixed sights… and the use of ball ammo is never going to set the world on fire w/9mm. My biggest complaint would be I think it doesn’t feel as good in hand as other double stack 9mm handguns with comparable capacity and capability that cost the same amount of money new. They’re just nowhere near the top of the list. It’s a old design. If I was going to buy another… ‘obsolete’ service 9mm, I’d get a CZ 75 or a variant thereof before the Beretta. I just like them better and they were both made within a few years of each other.
As we look to move away from the M9… I wouldn’t mind picking us a gently used example on the surplus market if they’re cheap like S&W 10/64/66/19s were some years ago. It is what it is… a large service weapon that’s made to be open carried, fires adequately and can function well with good magazines and basic maintenance. I’d say, given the time it was built, it was good it has been superceeding but much better offerings. I own a 1911… and, (gasp) I’d say the say the same thing about the SA single stack 100+ year old gun. I sure wouldn’t want to go back to the 1911. They did torture test M9s before they adopted them and they are outstandingly durable… but years of abuse cause anything to break (again! It’s usually the magazines).
I have always scratched my head when I hear people complaining about the Beretta 92 platform. I carried a Beretta on active duty. How many issues? None. In fact, no one in my unit ever had a problem. I left active duty and went into law enforcement. My first department carried the Beretta. Again, it performed flawlessly. No one in my department had any issue. My second department carried Berettas for the first five years. No issues with any of them. Interesting fact…we switched to Sigs and had issues with them. The series with the serial number starting with 55E all developed the same problem. The magazines dropping out. Its odd because I own a Sig and never had an issue. Anyway, I have my own Beretta 92 platform and it has never failed me. I carry it off duty and in many adventures into the wild. Zip problems. That is my experience. They are a large framed weapon and I know people with small hands can find it a challenge. I have no issues with them.