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You may recall that BART policeman Johannes Mehserle shot Oscar Grant III to death when he mistook his gun for a TASER. Mehserle went down for that one, a killing caught on tape by multiple witnesses. The incident sparked claims of police brutality and triggered riots. This time, a police body-cam shows 73-year-old Tulsa, Oklahoma reserve deputy Robert Bates shooting and killing alleged gun dealer Eric Harris as he was fleeing arrest. Once again . . .

a police officer claims he accidentally pulled his gun instead of his TASER. “I shot him, I’m sorry,” Officer Bates says on the body-cam video. “He shot me!” Harris yelled. “He shot me, man. Oh, my god. I’m losing my breath.”

A responding officer’s reply will do nothing to assuage the community. “Fuck your breath,” on officer replies. “You shouldn’t have fucking ran!” another announces.

In the Mehserle case we [eventually] learned that officer training was insufficient. The BART cop received just six hours of training with his X26 ECD TASER. I assume we’ll find out something similar in this case, although that fact will be buried by the mainstream media.

For its part, Tulsa police point out that Harris had a previous arrest for assaulting a police officer. They say the felon was a risk and labelled his shooting an “accident.” “He made an inadvertent mistake,” Sheriff’s Captain Billy McKelvey pronounced. As of this writing no criminal charges have been filed against the septuagenarian officer. That may change . . .

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  1. Well, you know, there’s a “Bad shoot” and then there’s a F*ck up. I believe this falls into the F-up category.

    Pretty obvious from his immediate response to the sound of the pistol firing that the officer did not intend to shoot the guy.

    • If it was an F-up its 2nd degree murder. If he claims he knew about the assault, its 1st Degree.

      • Um, no. On both counts. Intent is the defining characteristic between murder, manslaughter and other charges (reckless homicide, etc)

        • Yes it is an the prosecutor can show that this old fart intended on killing someone. He bought is way into the department and claims to not know the difference in a revolver and a tazer. That is at least 2nd Degree murder and at worst 1st degree manslaughter in Florida. I realize that the laws are probably a little different in OK.

          Florida 782.04

          “(2) The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life”

          I think it would be possible to convince a jury that more than one of these officers had a depraved mind that day.

        • Laws and terminology vary from state to state, but as Hannibal noted, the varying degrees of “intent” and “knowledge” are the keys. I might also note that generally terms like “a depraved mind” have a fairly specific meaning that doesn’t necessarily follow the dictionary definitions. My guess is that without some further evidence we are looking at some kind of reckless or negligent homicide at most. I would also be very surprised in the present political climate if some kind of charge is not filed.

        • Intent, yes, but it must be qualified by the appropriate standard of care, which is different and higher for a trained officer than for the general public.

          That is, an F up is easier to swallow when it’s John Q. Public than when it’s a cop, so the cop doesn’t get off as easily.

        • Yeah but as we’ve seen, being a cop doesn’t automatically make you more proficient than a non-cop citizen. And the moment you decide to charge a cop criminally they get all the protections that other defendants get.

      • He’s criminally responsible for sure, but I’d say it’s either reckless or negligent homicide.

        If he was a full time deputy the best you could hope for would be manslaughter, the most likely would be nothing. (if he were a full time deputy it wouldn’t change his criminal culpability for the act, but it sure would change my best guess at the eventual outcome)

      • false! if hes known to have a violent record and flees an arrest any cop would assume he a violent risk to others or going for a weapon.

        if you run, you will get shot, end of story.

        there is nothing to requires any cop to run after you, it only endangers the cop and public. if a cop was to tun him down, the perp would be close enough to pull the cops weapon and use it.

        all cops are trained to assume this if anyone runs armed or not. armed just makes the shoot cut n dry. 2 shot then tell them to stop again, if they dont you shoot again 2 times.

        do not care if your 18 ot 73, you run from a cop your a risk to everyone! yes even a 73yr old is a danger. you have to assume they are armed. now most cop do try everything to not shoot. you can what is at risk on both sides. dont forget tasers only work about upto 15ft beyond that your chance of hitting near zero. if a cop pulls a taser he has one or two chances, thrn hes defenseless till he pulls his other weapon. during that time a perp can cover 20ft with ease. if he is beaten down, he weapon can be turned on him and others.

        you choose your weapon by instinct NOT a taser.

        • Cops cannot shoot fleeing suspects unless they pose a threat to the cop or bystanders. Yhe standard is not “assume” but “probable cause”.

          what are you, living in the ancient past? Haven’t you heard of Tennessee vs Garner?

        • WorkngForChange, actually you are the one that is wrong here. His record is questionable. An arrest is different than a conviction. Its doubtful that the idiot that shot him knew that at the time or the 2 potty mouth idiots that let him die. Furthermore, it was an undercover cop buying a gun they may or may not have been a stolen gun. Plus, he initially ran when an unmarked car pulled up. Lastly, merely running does not justify shooting someone. Especially given it isn’t even clear a crime as occurred. This is why this guy has been charged as well as the cop in South Carolina.

    • I think what your referring to is basically the difference between murder and negligent homicide. Still not sure why a 73 year old is running the streets with a badge and a gun.

      As I’ve said before, it’s the totality of the circumstances. This was clearly a dirty gun deal gone wrong, followed by what appears to be a dirty negligent shooting. The incident should be charged as such.

      By the way, I believe my initial Taser training was only 8 hours. Since then I’ve had roughly 80 hours of training / refresher info.

      • 8 hours sounds about right for the first class. We had 4 hours per year every year after that. I took the full ride the first class.
        Geez that was a long time ago.

        This guy should probably get manslaughter or the equivalent at the very least. Or however they term it over there. This was a very stupid mistake.

      • Because he’s donated thousands of dollars of equipment to the department. He was an officer elsewhere for a year in the 60’s, and now he’s a well-heeled private citizen. In exchange for his generosity toward the department, he was sworn in as a reserve deputy, and gets to go on glorified ride-alongs. And kill people without repercussion, apparently.

        See kids? Wealth DOES buy privilege.

        • There’s way too much cop hate on this thread for an accident that happened during the course of a felony arrest for a previously convicted felon who was resisting arrest.

          It was an accident. Accidents happen. Yes, somebody died. Do you execute every doctor who makes a mistake? Every soldier?

          People are human. You don’t have the right to be arrested by God or the Flying Spagetti Monster.

        • Pretty sure it says arrested for assaulting an officer and not convicted. Last I checked, arrests don’t prove guilt.

          We all know cops have a tendency to whine they were assaulted if a person touches them while they are crushing that person’s throat.

        • Adub, It was never demonstrated that a felony had occurred. They guy was shot after they had him down. Instead of performing first aid, the taunted him. Making the occasional private sale isn’t automatically illegal in Oklahoma. It isn’t cop hate, its corrupt punk cop hate. There is a difference.

        • >previously convicted felon who was resisting arrest.

          Implying that is relevant.

          Any civilian who accidentally kills someone gets years in prison for manslaughter. This rich wannabe thug will not.

        • 100% agree. I mean WTF was that old guy doing there??? If he was a janitor at the local public grade school he would not have a kiddy-badge and a gun.

          What we are seeing is the power of video and the internet showing how some cops act. In the last two weeks, we have that guy shot in the back 8 times, those cops in So-CAL beating the crap out of a guy that stole a horse and now this. In all 3 incidents we see cops abusing their power. I also bet if they all knew there were being filmed for world wide distribution (internet) two guys would be alive and one would not be busted up.

          I back cops, and I know most are great people doing great things in a tough job. That said this country needs a discussion about this behavior. Any discussion will need to include harsher prison sentences for people like this guy that got killed so he has more incentive to not be criminal.

      • That guy had a revolver. If he doesn’t know the difference at that point, 4 hrs nor 8 hrs is going to make a difference.

      • Agreed it sounds like an eff-up, nothing deliberate. There’s plenty of capable 73+ year olds out there, but as a ride-along? Sure, watching the greased pig contest at the county fair, or HS football games. In a car that’s actually responding to active calls? Or worse, backup on a UC bust? Egads…

        Of course the other travesty is the response from the actual cop. He should have been grabbing the Celox and trying desperately to save the guy that just got shot by ‘accident’. Instead, he is gloating in his role as co-executioner. Disgusting.

        • The after response suggests depraved minds verses just manslaughter so the prosecutor should try to make a 2nd Degree charge stick along with manslaughter.

      • Well, Accur81, as another poster suggested, there are 73-year-olds and then there are 73-year-olds. Out here in San Diego, the Sheriffs Department has no upper age limit for applicants, but, of course, a certain number of the older applicants simply can’t meet the physical requirements, but every once in a while someone you might think would be better off in a retirement home does meet those requirements, and performs quite capably in the field, I’m told. Were I you, I’d be a bit more careful about assuming that, because someone is of a certain age, they must perforce be incompetent. But you have to understand that this is coming from someone who in 22 days will be 80.

        • If he tackled the BG instead, or successfully used the Taser, I would have commended him for quick thinking despite his age. I’ve certainly commended the bad ass grandma for fending off young thugs.

          This however, was a f$@# up of epic proportions. My father in law is 73, incidentally, and he’s way too old to be running down perps. In fact, my son is a little over two and can run almost 7 miles per hour. That’s faster than my 73 year old father in law can move.

          Perhaps people here will call me a sissy, but there are times when I feel too old to be chasing bad guys, and I’m only 39. I guess I balance the danger to society of the suspect escaping versus the fact that I really need to be around for my own family.

          So if you’re 79 and can still get the job done I say Godspeed to you. I hope and train for good mobility, and hope I’ll still be spry at your age. And probably a little wiser, too.

        • >BG

          I like how cops and bootlickers casually use words like “bad guy” to refer to their victims, even when the wrongdoer is obviously a so-called “good guy”.

  2. One cop should be arrested for murder and the ass-hole that commented about “damn your breath” should be fired and put on the NICS list barring him from owning guns. Getting a job as a police officer should be 25x harder to get than it is.

    • I see no justification whatsoever for anyone to even think about using a taser in that situation. The suspect was down on the ground, had no weapons, and there were roughly four or five cops ON THE SUSPECT.

      The reserve deputy that shot him should definitely go to prison for 2nd degree murder and possibly even 1st degree if the prosecutor can find evidence of premeditation. I see no other possible explanation for shooting the suspect. As I stated above, I cannot see any explanation for even wanting to have a taser out.

    • “… the ass-hole that commented about “damn your breath” should be fired and put on the NICS list barring him from owning guns.”

      Could the “damn your breath” comment (on video, no less) warrant civil rights charges?

      • I would say this case is one of the rare few that has merit in that regards. Apparently the shooter has deep pockets as well.

  3. the question is why he was being tased. depending on the reason may get to the potential for riots.

    • He apparently tried to sell a handgun to an undercover cop. How selling a gun to someone is a crime, though, confuses me.

      • I don’t know about OK but in CA selling a gun without a dealer in the mix is a felony. Is it right? No. But try standing up in a CA court and yelling “shall not be infringed” at the judge as your defense.

        • As far as I know, private sales are perfectly legal in Oklahoma, unless the seller knows that the buyer is a prohibited person.

    • Well, I think I’m hearing that “stop fighting” refrain and “put your hands behind your back” just before the shot, so presumably he wasn’t submitting to the cuffs.

        • Yeah, as it turns out that’s what I heard before the shot. They were still yelling “hands behind” and “stop fighting” after the shot. They didn’t seem to think the shot was very significant. They ( as in cops) seem to like that “stop fighting” phrase a lot, I guess in the same sense that my long-ago CHL instructor was telling us to yell “stop or I’ll shoot!”.

      • Not to mention the knee on the head and the rest of it. This wasn’t someone who just assaulted someone, or killed someone, or pointed a gun at someone. This was a two-bit punk who did something ‘illegal’ and was just shot for his trouble.

        Those UCs aren’t cops, they’re just scum that gets some of their pay from the taxpayer. (The rest they get dealing drugs like half the UCs in the country.)

      • Nothing but rote recitations that government employees are trained to repeat as a way to justify their thuggery.

      • “Stop resisting” is the standard thing to yell while beating a non-resisting subject, so I would place zero value on cops yelling that or anything similar.

  4. This isn’t the first time we’ve heard the “I thought it was my TASER” excuse. So either their training is insufficient or the TASER looks/feels too much like a pistol. Maybe they should make them more obvious so they don’t get “mistaken”.

    • It appears that he was shot with a revolver, so I don’t think there’s much possibility of a similar-feeling grip.

      • That was the first thing I noticed was the old ass-hole shot him and threw his gun down . . . a revolver. The sheriff out to have to answer for having this old fart on patrol.

  5. Any ‘reserve’ deputy/officer is a bad idea. Anyone who would do the job for free and buy their own equipment is crazy to begin with.
    As far as the Taser goes, it was a bad design from the start to have it feel so much like a pistol…

    • Reserve officer is often a route into a paid position. It’s equivalent to an internship. From the viewpoint of a small town that can’t afford a big police budget, a new hire who is already trained and somewhat experienced is a bargain. As soon as small town officers get some experience, they move to bigger departments that pay higher salaries. This can be a real problem for a town that hires a civilian, pays for his training, pays his salary during training, and then loses him. Where I live, some of the towns require an officer they have trained to reimburse them if the officer leaves before completing a minimum term of service.

      • It depends on the department. In some it is a way to get to full-time, in others it’s a Dwight Shrute type gig. I can guess which this was.

    • “Any ‘reserve’ deputy/officer is a bad idea. Anyone who would do the job for free and buy their own equipment is crazy to begin with.”

      Here in the ‘GunShine State (Florida) it’s a common way for LE folks to maintain their ‘LE Credentials’.

      The Sheriff signs off on their yearly credentials for a set number of volunteer hours per year. We have a good number like that here in Polk County. (Sheriff Grady Judd “Because they ran out of bullets”), Folks leave full-time LE but miss being around their cop buddies. The citizens get instant call-up cops for the occasional manhunt.

  6. I follow a self defense blog by an Ohio police officer named Greg Ellifritz. About 6 weeks ago, he did a piece about flashlights. I raised three objections to weapon mounted lights: (1) You point your gun at whomever you illuminate. (2) Running your flashlight complicates running your gun. (3) If the bad guy shoots at your light, he’s shooting at your head. A retired officer backed up number (2) with a story about an officer who confused the light switch with the bang switch. The result was a drug dealer getting to retire independently wealthy at taxpayers’ expense.

  7. It was an accident. When you choose to run with the bulls in Pampalona, you can’t complain if you get gored.

    And yeah, that might sound cold, but since the safety weenies can’t make up their minds whether cops can use the baton, the choke hold, water cannon, dogs, etc., you take your chances.

    Maybe the guy should have watched Chris Rock’s video on how not to get your ass beat (or shot) by the police…

    • Given the clown chasing the guy was 73, I don’t think the baton, choke hold etc. is going to be the 1st choice. I believe the 1st choice of a 73 year old is going to be the revolver.

    • This isn’t running with the bulls, it’s at most generous, a stroll past a herd of grazing cattle. Which is not supposed to be a potentially lethal exercise.

      This man was not accused of a violent felony, nor anything punishable by the death penalty. If he runs, cops are supposed to attempt to apprehend him. If he succeeds in evading, they then put out a BOLO and get a bench warrant. He’ll turn up sooner or later.

    • Yep. Clearly the person who got shot when on the ground is at fault. Dumb bastard. Dontcha know how not to get shot in the head when you’re at the mercy of a cop?

      Not that poor cop’s fault at all for shooting a guy on the ground.

      In other news, the newest deodorant and component of febreze takes advantage of the new discovery that a cop’s sh!t doesn’t in fact stink!

  8. When one of us does it, it’s murder. When a cop does it, it’s an oopsie-daisy. That sure makes me proud to be an American.

  9. Our SO carries big-arse tasers that are painted bright yellow and carried in front, while the sidearm rests on the hip. You might not think all of that could get mixed-up in a heated incident, but I’m guessing it could, between tunnel-vision and a lot more practice drawing the sidearm than drawing the taser. Kind of spooky when you think about it.

  10. I can’t help but imagine that words coming out of angry persons mouth to a dying person is a glimpse at their soul. The fellow who said “f your breath” should at the very least be ostracized. That so many police get so angry about someone trying to escape seems like a bad sign to me. Maybe too much personalization and emotionalization going on.
    I too suspect that the shooter was proving himself incompetent rather than malicious though.

    • That jack-wagon should be fired and charged such that he never works as a cop again and is on the NICS list. He is more dangerous than any criminal or banger I will encounter. A badge give him super legal powers.

    • They are bad asses when there is a pack of them with the badges and cuffs. If they weren’t a “protected” group, they wouldn’t be such bad asses.

  11. This is exactly why no one should carry a lethal weapon and a non-lethal weapon at the same time.

    • I am pretty sure you aren’t going to confuse a can of OC spray, or a baton for that matter, for a gun or vice versa anytime soon.

      • This wasn’t a matter of confusion. The old man got overexcited and put a round into the back of a subdued suspect, and is claiming taser confusion after the fact.

        • Unless he planned it that way from the start, his statement of ‘I shot him by accident I am sorry’ within seconds after the shots would tend to disprove your theory.

        • Not really. He shot the guy by accident. He accidentally pulled the trigger on a long, roughly 14lb revolver because he’s utterly incompetent to be a police officer and had no conscious control over what his stupid hand was doing once he got a little excited.

          Then he blames it on the taser because that’s an easier scapegoat than saying “I fucked up large all on my own.”

    • Tasers aren’t non-lethal by any stretch. People die as a result of their deployment on a regular basis. They are less lethal much like a beanbag round out of a 12ga. Baton is also in that camp. OC? That might make the definition of “non-lethal”.

      • Nothing is non-lethal. Even OC has been linked to some deaths.

        But busting a cap is some dude’s ass for no good reason is definitely not a righteous shoot,

        What’s up with cops these days. Unless a dude has killed, raped, or abducted someone, there is no justifiable reason to get all medieval on their ass.

  12. This is why we should only have Navy SEALS and Green Berets as police officers. They should all be 9th degree black belts. They should have been in Astan or Iraq for 5 or more tours. Anything less is unqualified to police the American populace.

  13. At least he didn’t accidentally pull a 12lb ny trigger and centerpunch him right in the chest, right?

    Is it just me or is the taser excuse wearing really thin? The taser and pistol aren’t carried in the same place, they don’t draw the same, they don’t feel the same, they don’t fire the same.

  14. “Oh hey lets give the cops a gunlike object to carry with their legit guns, there is no way they could screw that up! Hey has anyone seen my grenade that looks like a piece of chicken?”

  15. “f*ck your breath”. Now that’s some outstanding “to protect and serve”.

    I’m sorta conservative, and a little spring loaded to the “law and order” side of the political spectrum, but it is clear that some cops have become unaccountable. Our founding fathers understand that human nature cannot be trusted to self-police, and therefore instituted checks and balances for the federal government in an attempt to get accountability.

    Body cameras, body cameras, body cameras. Helps protect the good cops, helps expose the dirty ones.

    • Here’s the thing: These guys had body cameras. That’s what we just watched. Did it do any damn bit of good? As far as I know not a single person is being held accountable for this.

  16. To my recollection, firearms are usually carried strong side, while tasers are carried weak side in a cross-draw configuration. Yes? No?

    And, to me, confusing the two is like confusing a hammer and a saw. Yeah, they both have handles / grips. But, they are VERY different.

    • I’ve seen the cross-draw on some of our SOs, but I’ve also seen the taser on the same “side” (same side of the guy’s belt buckle) but well in front, with the pistol well back on the hip. Saw it just a couple of days ago, coincidentally.

    • More recent taser training has them used exclusively weak-hand, specifically to address these situations.

      I’m guessing this guy didn’t get recent taser training, not that it would have mattered since he’s just making an excuse for his own utter incompetence.

  17. OLD dude had no business chasing the so-called gun seller. This has to be the lamest excuse EVER for a murder. My sympathy for the “perps” family.

  18. ya know, there is nothing magical that makes a used car salesman either virtuous or evil. It’s all in the incentives, management, and check-and-balances.

    Same goes for government employees such as cops.

    • Agree completely – up to a point. The perverse incentives and training have been the drivers leading us to this shameful point for the last 4 decades of post-Gates paramilitary BS.

      Give them monetary incentives for property seizure and guess what happens. Give them promotion incentives based on ‘performance based policing’ (arbitrary numbers) guess what happens? Those goals get met, regardless of it’s negative impact on the citizenry.

      Here’s where I kinda get off that bus. At some point, a culture is created. At some point there are complete filthbags (like the human garbage with badges in that vid) hired because they’re the only ones who will help perpetuate the system. Decent coppers would be trying to clean losers like this out of the system. They are inherently bad people – I don’t care what happens, once stopping the unarmed man, the appropriate response is to tend to his injuries. That’s what a good cop would do. Sorting him out is for the justice system. These are not “good men gone astray” or even concentration camp guards operating under orders. Make no mistake, these are the self-interested power abusing types who will happily load those who do not “obey” into cattle cars.

      • agreed, but the mgmt system, incentives, etc. should be creating the correct culture and weeding out the bad cops.

  19. civil suits, DoJ investigation are possible outcomes. Without body cameras we wouldn’t even have an articlemto discuss.

    • BS. A black guy gets shot to death in the back by an OFWG cop and you don’t think it would make the news without footage?

      Remember that whole “Michael Brown” thing?

      • I call BS on your call of BS!

        A body camera would have made Darren Wilson’s life much easier. it took a massive investigation to determine what a body camera would have shiwn immediately.

        On the other side of the spectrum, if not for a bystander with a cell phone, we would have never heard of Slager shooting a fleeing black dude in the back, because his dept tried to cover it up until the video was released.

  20. There may be no criminal trial here – well-heeled, well-connected elderly gentleman – but this is a prime target for a bundle of lawsuits, from wrongful death through a federal §1983. The corollary events may involve the DOJ.

    Does anybody know if a “sworn reserve officer” has qualified immunity?

    • Sworn reserve officers in Tulsa have the same powers as full-time cops (as reported by the local newspapers — take that any way you want), and if they do, then I suspect that they receive the same protections.

  21. Sooo…. if he mistook the revolver for a taser, I suppose he mistook the perp for a pit bull. I wonder if the cop has Alzheimer’s disease?

  22. Sworn reserve officers in Washington State go through a state-mandated reserve office course. It’s shorter than the “regular” law enforcement academy, but it’s still months long. I think the expectation is that since they would not be riding alone, always partnered with a full-time officer, the shorter academy allows for an appropriate amount of training. Most of the ROs I’ve met are pretty squared-away individuals and it’s often a first step to getting hired full time and being allowed to attend the full academy.

    A sheriff’s deputy in my county (Kitsap….it’s not just a county, it’s an experience) had a guy up in a tree a few years ago. She meant to Tase him. She ended up doing a teeny little oopsie and put a hollow point in his leg.

    He survived and apparently got down out of the tree very very quickly.

    • Tasing a guy in a tree is not the smartest thing in the world. If the object losses motor control and falls out of the tree, the results could be fatal. As if anyone cares.

  23. Another cop (or two) going down.
    This one for possibly a manslaughter or negligent homicide shooting.

    73 years old is just too old to be serving in situations like this.

    I think not his lack of training but his age had a contributing cause for his mistake.

    However, the other cop that said, “Fuck your breath,” showed an obvious careless disregard for the suspects’ life even AFTER he was shot!
    To him, if a suspect runs, he deserves to be shot to death?
    So that officer should be fired immediately.
    It’s is time the cops start losing some of their qualified immunity.
    They can’t cover this up.
    This is why all police should have body cameras.

    If the prosecutor does not want Tulsa to be another Ferguson, he should start filing charges immediately.

  24. Manslaughter at the least. I still can’t believe you bully apologists acting as if running from the cops should warrant execution.
    I’m no lawyer, but I’ve sat on plenty of juries including a murder trial. Given the herd stupidity of juries it’s always possible that the “cop” that shot him will get off. I do have some sympathy for the rich thrill seeker “deputy” and would probably not want to see him serve any serious time but this looks like another corrupt and mismanaged police department.

    I’m also pretty sure that a wrongful death suit would either win at trial or settle for a substantial sum.

    I’m sick of this crap.

  25. Sounds like this guy died from a sucking chest wound. I’m sure these pathetic excuses for public servants sat there and did nothing while the guy died from inability to breath or by drowning in his own blood. If he wasn’t hit in another vital organ quick and skilled first aid might have saved his life.

  26. Not an OK attorney, but a read through of their homicide statute, seems to best fit with 1st or 2nd degree manslaughter, just depends on how they’d class the underlying act of “imma tase this guy who is already pinned down”.

    “Homicide is manslaughter in the first degree in the following cases:

    1. When perpetrated without a design to effect death by a person while engaged in the commission of a misdemeanor.

    2. When perpetrated without a design to effect death, and in a heat of passion, but in a cruel and unusual manner, or by means of a dangerous weapon; unless it is committed under such circumstances as constitute excusable or justifiable homicide.”

    No idea about the qualified immunity question.

  27. OK law could be much different, but TX criminal homicides come down to capital murder, murder, manslaughter, and criminally negligent homicide. Which one hinges largely on the degree of intent (intentional, knowing, reckless, criminally negligent).

    With just a few viewings of just this video and no other evidence, this looks like at least criminally negligent homicide (6 months to 2 years in prison) , but more like manslaughter (2 to 20 years in prison).

  28. He said sorry, come on guys. Dude was fleeing also, so probably guilty of something. A few bad apples.

  29. While serving as an SP in the USAF several decades ago, an old MSGT taught me something I remember to this day. He said that less-then-deadly-force weapons should never operate the same way as lethal force weapons. He told me that when you are stressed, “muscle memory” will take over, and if you grab the wrong weapon, you are going to follow through even though it is the wrong weapon. I have always been disturbed that most.police departments use Tasers that mimic pistols. It certainly sounds like this old sergeant knew a thing or.two more than thousands of civilian police departments.

  30. “Fuck your breath!” That is seriously screwed administration of justice.

    This comes to mind:

    Needless to say, this incident reminds me on something that happened a couple of years ago in Poland. A cop thought he has plastic bullets in his shotguns. Wanted to give some plastic-shots to football hooligans that attacked a student street party. Ended up shooting students, killing one of them.

  31. not complicated….. your resist arrest, or assault an officer, armed or not, you will get shot if he cant get his hands on you.

    cops n soldiers are trained to expect that if your running….. you going for a weapon. your a danger to otthers armed or not.

    they cant know for sure, and we used to respect cops. it is simple you Stop! empty your hands! and Comply!

    99% of the time unless you have warrants for your arrest, the cuffs come off in minutes after a little chat. been there many times, some dude driving a jeep or looks like me did some crime. they have to assume the worst and rule me out. it takes minutes, then have a nice day. carry or not, be clear and to the point.

    they are not to kill people, if you RUN they are required to respond as if your a threat to themsalves… OR OTHERS. only a civilian must have a threat of harm directed at themselves. COPS have to stop threats to others.

    if you run they must assume a list of possibilities how you are a danger.

    hi on pcp or other drugs making a danger.
    running to get a weapon
    running because you just committed a Crime.
    running from a cop when your under arrest is a crime on its own.

    this is not the movies! cops dont chase you across town, if they chase and try “hands only” approach, they risk their weapon being used against them. lets say you do catch the perp, you grapple him to the ground. he kicks your butt and tskes your weapon. or he grabs a pipe and beats you with it.

    Nope you get shot for resisting arrest! its not complicated!

    • Not sure if trolling, or boot-licking apologist for the Satatists…

      The first thing you need to work on changing is your understanding of how police are to supposed to act. If that doesn’t work out, try changing your address to Europe.

    • “Nope you get shot for resisting arrest! its not complicated”

      I too am going to assume that you are just trolling – because if you weren’t and were serious I would have to break down and weep for this country – especially its educational system.

      Also – please watch the video. The suspect was on the ground surrounded by multiple officers and shot in the back. Him running (away) from officers is not justification for execution on the spot without a trial.

      Also, the “stop and comply” attitude doesn’t merit much respect from a free people. People will naturally give respect when they receive respect. Same with laws. Laws that merit respect are more likely to be followed than laws that don’t.

      For one – his crime and hence the “law” of selling a gun doesn’t merit much respect from me. If it was a stolen gun – more so. Also it is definitely more respectful to chase and apprehend a suspect and try him for his crimes rather than chase him down, shoot him in the back, and curse at him while he lay dying and remind him in his final time that he died because he ran.

    • This guy was shot after he got taken down though.

      There’s simply no reason for shooting a fleeing suspect unless he presents imminent threat to others if he gets away.
      There’s even less reason for shooting a partially-subdued suspect.

      the old man knew IMMEDIATELY it was a bad shoot.. because he got overexcited pulled the long DA trigger on his revolver all on his own. So then he started fishing for excuses. The taser excuse is particularly transparent.

      This went down exactly like the BART shooting.

    • It is true that in almost all these cases the decedent would have not been shot had they not run\resisted\etc

      However that does not exculpate police for violating the law as set forth in Tennessee v. Garner.

      • the problem is we are trained to do one thing, then politics out of fear changes laws and creates a culture that is the opposite.

        in the 80s 90s and earlier, if you ran you would expect to get shot at and hope they miss. now they act its a movie/TV where all cops are fearless and can run down anyone and always good enough to hit a moving knee while running.

        the One shot case is legit shoot, just lucky shot. the other shoot 8 shots all at once is wrong on a person running. you shoot 2 times and tell them to stop, most will even if both shots miss. if they dont you double tap again aka 2 shots, and repeat till they stop.

        he shot him 8 timed with no chances.

        a taser is one or 2 shots and at much closer range. his taser excuse is a lie yo cover up his actions.

        now the one shot makes sense she could have gone for taser and she shot only once. the location was a lucky shot, rare for a cop to hit the heart on a moving target.

        her shot will be convidered a clean shot, no excessive force.

        Ferguson, he was attacked and his attacker was coming at him when he shot the Thug. if an attacker is fighting you or charging you, obviously knowing your armed, you have every right to shoot till they stop even if you empty your weapon.

    • He was on the ground with multiple people on him. In fact those upstanding cops are lucky that MORON did not shoot one of them.

  32. F!!k your breath, you shouldn’t have f!!king ran!”

    I have a lot more respect for the 73 year old officer with dementia who shot him than for the other officer making this statement. You really see them for what they are when they make statements like these. Not only does the guy die, but he gets to listen to their ridiculous justification/excuse for doing so and instead of expressing solemnness in their actions they make some snide and flippant remark towards him as he lay there dying. It’s really despairing and shameful.

  33. 73-year-old Tulsa, Oklahoma reserve deputy…


    While I know a VERY few 70 year olds who might be able to work as LEOs but that is the exception. The majority have problems as this guy did here. If you don’t know the difference between a gun and a taser your asking for trouble as we saw here.

    Some might say this is a training problem but again its up to the individual to make sure they practice enough to be safe and know the difference.

    Oh well

  34. Not to dismiss the error of the reserve deputy, but I was more shocked and appalled at the treatment/handling of the perp by the other officers after being shot.

  35. Well, the other officer going “Fuck your breath” after the guy was shot isn’t going to help much in the civil suit…

  36. Sorry but :
    1. Taser is yellow, gun is blue or black
    2. Pistol and taser normally carried on opposite sides of the body.
    3. A taser and a pistol do not even feel the same.

  37. I’m not buying the taser mistake story. I don’t think the old fart meant to shoot him but he would not have been tasering the guy while other cops were holding him. They caught him and he was on the ground before the shot. Doesn’t sound like a time when a taser would be used. Knees, elbows and handcuffs maybe but why tase a guy already on the ground?

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