Over on TTAG’s faaast-growing Facebook page (thank you Celby Richoux) a commentator offered a “thought experiment” to counter Young Turks Host Cenk Ugur’s bizarre-o anti-gun “analogy.” “Let’s say HE is the one in this room,” Andy Gonzalez postulates. “There is nothing in this room but him, a telephone, a baseball bat, a loaded handgun and a piece of paper that reads “In 20 seconds a 6 foot 6 man the size of Mr. Universe wielding a machete shouting and screaming that he is going to kill you will break down that door and charge at you in an attempt to take your life. You may use the phone to call police, use the baseball bat to defend yourself or use the loaded handgun to defend yourself. Choose one of the three now. 3… 2… 1…” Genius or what?
Home Gun Nation Andy Gonzales’ Thought Experiment on Guns
Just taking a swag at Mr. Uyger’s response…
Well, that’s not enough information to answer the question…
Does the man look poor or oppressed?
Have I ever done anything to him that would inspire him to attack?
Could I run away?
Could I possibly knock the knife out of his hand?
What does the law say about this situation?
Does the firearm have appropriate safety built into it?
Why is there a loaded gun anyway, and what kind of message does this send to society?
Does he definitely want to kill me, or would he be content just to wound me?
I need to debate this with some friends for few days and try to come to a consensus. …..
He’s doomed because he doesn’t have either of the electronic bracelets (you know, “common sense” gun laws by Holder) to activate the bat or the gun…
Easy. Phone, because children.
I say we actually do it.
So what film is captain stabby from?
Never mind, found it. What a creative name.
I’m guessing “Machete” (yes, that’s the name of a film).
Or the sequel from last year, “Machete Kills”.
Danny Trejo rocks.
Well, he’s okay for an ex-con who’s even shorter than Tom Cruise.
I have used this example to convert a few Liberals who hate guns to at least understanding why they could be very, very useful.
I also used the example to show why the UK has a higher rate of death from violent crime: because I can more easily kill my rapist with a gun than with a baseball bat and in the UK, I am only allowed a baseball bat. Therefore there are more maimed rapists than dead rapists in the UK.
I thought the UK had a lower homicide rate but a higher violent crime rate….that would contradict your assertion here.
What am I missing?
Apparently the last line of his comment.
Thank you 😉
First line should have been:
I also used the example to show why the USA has a higher rate of death from violent crime
I heard the UK “massages” their crime rates. Based on convictions, not occurrences.
So maybe the world will never know 😉
We don’t even have a particularly higher violent crime rate, actually… sometimes the groupthink runs both ways.
http://dispellingthemythukvsusguns.wordpress.com/ is well worth a look: we really do seem to be safer over here, than over there, largely because of differences in definition of matters like “assault”. In the UK, “the appropriate charge will be one of Common Assault where no injury or injuries which are not serious occur” (from the CPS) which is usually compared to the US “aggravated assault” statistics – but in the UK “assault” is a raised fist or a push in the chest, if there’s any significant injury then it becomes at least actual bodily harm. Hence, we seem to get a lot more “assaults” than the US. If you’re talking serious harm done to the victim then the offence goes up to grievous bodily harm.
Comparing to the US and trying to match Royal Gala with Golden Delicious, the relevant offence in the UK would be “grievous bodily harm” to match against “aggravated assault”: on that basis, you’re 690% more likely to be “assaulted” in the US than the UK. (yes, about *seven times* more likely: 241 vice 35 offences per 100,000 inhabitants. (Reality probably misses some of the most serious “actual bodily harm” offences in the UK, which would reduce the imbalance a bit)
Some offences are fairly level pegging. Robbery, rape, knife attacks and car theft are fairly level pegging (robbery 10% more likely in the UK, stabbings 27% more likely here; car theft 29% more likely in the US, rape of a female almost dead even). However, the burglary rate is 52% higher in the US, the overall murder rate is four times higher, and fatal shootings are 3,520% higher in the US…
Of course this is susceptible to books being cooked, selective reporting, et cetera, but that goes for both sides: and it’s evidently not the UK where people are under such an incessant lethal threat that they feel the need to be armed every second of every day even while locked inside their own homes. (Seriously, ‘shower carry’?)
Well given the photo, the obvious answer is to use the phone and call Machete. The plot dictates that he has to kill the bad guy and that he’s always there in time.
If we’re changing options I’d like to pick “Be Machete.”
Easy answer…I don’t want to waste my ammo or money on lawyers so I grab the wife, kid and keys, run out the back door and get into the car to call the police 🙂
If ANYONE is breaking through my door and threatening, I’m NOT asking questions! The gun is in my hand and I’m pulling the trigger! My gun is always close at hand and loaded if in my purse or open carry holster that policy has saved my life more than once! My RIGHT to defense superceeds all laws.
peirson, grow some balls!
Go back and re-read my first sentence.
Ummm…you’re attributing something to peirsonb, but he was actually trying to answer for Mr. Ugur. So you made an incorrect (and unfair) assumption.
Reading comprehension saves lives…and egos.
More than once?
Are you doing the triple stupid too much?
Travis Haley actually proposed that same thought experiment in one of his videos last year. Very good argument.
Mr. Uglier would probably try wetting himself, or vomiting on the attacker.
Or tell them he’s having his period. . .
I hope the handgun is a .45 ACP…
That’s right! Because if it don’t start with a “4,” you may as well throw the phone at him.
To be fair, throwing the gun would probably be more effective than throwing the phone.
Eh if it’s less than a .45 the phone might be heavier 😉
Pretty much, god help you if you’re stuck with one of those wussy ass .357 magnums. You’d be lucky to cause severe welting.
I think Cenk would just let himself be hacked to death. Sacrificing his dumbass on the altar of nonviolence LOL
I’d break that bat in half and stab the sonofabitch with it, then I’d paint my face with his blood and hunt down his closest living relatives. And if anyone calls me a liar or a coward I’ll break their fuggin BACK!
Man, that Tactical Response class last weekend was AWESOME!
@ Vhyrus, Yay more James Yeager hate!
I would close my eyes and pretty soon rainbow fairies and unicorns would be bursting through the door to save me. No, wait, I would take the ammo apart and use the gunpowder to smear a “Weapons Free Zone” sign on the floor. No, maybe a pentagram, nothing can get inside a pentagram on the floor like in Supernatural, right? Or is that out?
Can I use my lifeline and phone my friend to ask?
The problem with this new experiment is that it is logical. The Young Turks experiment was illogical. Ignorance is bliss for the Gun Grabber.
A better scenario would be “Put your mother in the room and then you have to tell her which one to use.” Scenario assumes the gun is one that the subject can control/use in an effective caliber.
I’ll leverage my soft skills and forgo logging into Facebook. Problem solved.
None of the above. I would urinate, vomit or menstruate on the attacker…
Bang! BangBang!! BangBangBangBang!!!! Click. Is there another magazine?
by my count, you’re a New Yorker
And a law abiding one.
From the number of bangs in your answer and your request for another magazine, I draw these deductions, in order of likelihood:
You’re somewhere in the state of New York.
You’re firing a single-stack semiautomatic .45 caliber handgun…and .45 acp is not the death ray its fanboys make it out to be.
Your aim is terrible.
You’re in the grip of a blinding rage and won’t be content until you’ve fired every last bullet at your target.
I would put on a baby Halloween mask, duct tape a machete to my hand and wait for him butt naked.
Funny, but I bet that would stop most would-be attackers pretty quickly. I wonder if Ed Sanow could give that a stopping power rating.
Travis Haley posted a video a while ago to this same vein, you, your wife and children are in a room, a piece of paper on the desk says in 60 seconds men will come into this room and kill you all etc.
Nutnfancy has a good one. Straight from the Armed Citizens stories in American Rifleman.
Sitting at home, your wife is in another room, you hear crazed BGs break in and start beating your wife senseless, what do you do?
Call the police, ok, great. Then what, 7 mins until they arrive, she is being beaten to death, you’re the man of the house, what do you do? Let her die, or man up?
Usually, at this point, a bat or a knife comes into play for the anti gun folks…
So, you can round up the whole argument with, “You are saying it’s ok to use a knife to stab someone to death, or bat to bludgeon someone death, if you feel your family is in danger?”
If they’re being honest and say yes, then you got them. Why not have a gun.
First time I heard this suggested was by Travis Hayley. somebody not on YouTubetheir phone can probably find the vid on YouTube.
A thought experiment? First things first. Can anyone here prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that any of the gun-grabbers in the audience, actually have the ability to THINK! Remember now…it’s beyond a reasonable doubt.
GIve the poor Turk a break. He’s a liberal. Of course he doesn’t think before regurgitating PC drivel. If he did, he wouldn’t be a liberal, now would he.
Of course, the right answer is that in a decent society, mealymouthed liberals would never have to face this situation, because the 6’6″ maniac would be aware that there was a better than 50% chance the guy in the room was something a bit less useless; hence wouldn’t be acting all violently in the first place….
I may have to use this. I was already leaning “loaded handgun” before the end, but, I was “open minded” and I was thinking of the various “diversity” in the choices and the “common sense” solution, like the crazy Moms suggest. Of course, I still went with…(Drumroll…) the loaded handgun. (Ta DA!) I just hope the handgun wasn’t a .25, but at least a snubby with .38+P Hollow points or larger. I wouldn’t want to simply make him more combative. Ideally, a nice .45 ACP or a Dersert Eagle .44. (Well, if we’re going to fantasize!)
In 20 seconds, I should be able to call my shotgun-armed neighbor across the street, with time to spare for drawing my handgun. Hopefully, the two of us can put the guy down before he can get through my wrought-iron screen door.
Is 20 seconds too short to scribble “MACHETE FREE ZONE” on the reverse side to show Mr. Universe when he breaks down the door?
Gotta hand it to you Me. Farago, you have probably quadrupled the number of people who even know who “Cenk Uygur” is. I had never even heard about him before your post.
Here is another thought experiment: if an anti-gun nut prattles about nonsense in a hermetically sealed room, does it make a sound?