It was reported earlier today that Devin Kelley, the Texas church murderer, had purchased four firearms over the last two years. The AR he used yesterday (and probably all four guns) was purchased from a federal firearms licensed dealer, Academy Sports. It’s easy enough to lie on a form 4473. Applicants no doubt do it every day. The question was, how did he pass the FBI’s background check? Well now we know.
From nypost.com:
The Air Force failed to enter the Texas church shooter’s info about his domestic violence conviction into the federal background check system — allowing for him to purchase the weapon he used to slaughter 26 people on Sunday, a military spokesman says.
Devin P. Kelley, a former airman, was convicted of domestic assault on his wife and child in 2012 and then confined for 12 months and discharged for bad conduct two years later. But for some reason, nobody chose to let the government know about his criminal past.
Some reason? Let’s see, we can think of a few. Rank stupidity. Bureaucratic indifference. Organizational negligence. Legendary military efficiency.
“The Air Force has launched a review of how the service handled the criminal records of former Airman Devin P. Kelley following his 2012 domestic violence conviction,” the Air Force said. “Federal law prohibited him from buying or possessing firearms after this conviction.”
I know I feel better. You?
The point: those who continually call for expanding the FBI’s background check system — to enact a “universal” background checks — do so based on the underlying assumption that the data base is worth a damn. News flash: it frequently it isn’t. Garbage in, garbage out.
Dylan Roof passed a background check, too, despite a criminal record of drug convictions. That snafu was due to FBI incompetence. Nine churchgoers died.
Devin Kelley passed multiple background checks. The screw-up in this case was due to the Air Force’s negligence. And 26 churchgoers are dead.
Who knows how many more times the FBI OK’s prohibited persons every day, either through its own mismanagement or because of inadequate or faulty data provided to them?
Never mind that background checks are a clear infringement on Americans’ Second Amendment rights. Almost as bad is the fact that far too many people derive a false sense of security from a flawed, poorly run government system. Ask a veteran what kind of care they get at a VA hospital. Have you talked to anyone at the IRS or Social Security Administration lately?
Throwing more taxpayer dollars at the NICS system or expanding its remit won’t make it any better. It never does. Government programs are black holes of money, with gravitational pulls from which competence and efficiency can’t possibly emerge. But that’s a lesson that we seem to have continually learn and re-learn. The hard way.
“The paralysis you feel right now – the impotent helplessness”
I never feel that way, because I’m almost always armed. I may not be able to stop a mass shooting, but at least I’ll have a fighting chance.
The massacres we’ve had in this country don’t hold a candle to those held in the Statist utopias of Stalin’s USSR, Mao’s China, Hitler’s Third Reich, or Pol Pot’s Cambodia, that Senator Murphy seems to want to emulate by disarming his fellow Americans.
Oppressors always disarm their victims first.
Evil people controlling the power of the state kill far more than innocents than individual fiends ever will.
Immediately after the terrorist attack at the Christmas party in San Bernardino, the locals were lined up outside the doors at the city’s gun stores. That should make clear the general public’s opinion on gun control.
For every Orlando I’ll give you a Mexico City. For every Las Vegas I’ll give you a Juarez.
How’s gun control working, right next door?
Arkansas DOES require a permit to carry concealed.
Unfortunately it has succeeded at the state level in some cases…CT, MA, NY, WA,OR, CA, MD, all passed laws to restrict rights after tragic events… We have to remember to vote at state level elections also…
I don’t remember asking for the honorable senator’s opinion.
“Pro-gun voters thus have political influence over gun policy disproportionate to their numbers”
Is that like African American voters having political influence over race policy disproportionate to their numbers?
Is there such a thing?
Do these writers think as they type?
The more shrill the left is on guns the more people tune them out. Sensible people know disarming the populace would result in violence against the vulnerable. There are real threats to people that only an armed populace deters.
Look at Mexico for an example of how disarmament ends up.
Here in North Texas the catholic bishop put up the legal signage to ban both open and concealed carry. While I don’t don’t attend mass anymore (or a multitude of reasons starting with the Red Pope and his commie beliefs) when I take my kids to events at various churches you better believe I carry. Signs be damned. My CZ P10c plus a spare mag and a SWAT-T tourniquet/pressure dressing are always with me.
He changed magazines 15 times…..
https://apnews.com/149034eeb9f847749f2b8b6148b193da/The-Latest:-15-magazines-of-30-rounds-each-found-at-church
Texas law enforcement authorities say the gunman who killed 26 members of a church on Sunday was shot three times, twice by a citizen.
Texas Department of Public Safety Regional Director Freeman Martin says Devin Patrick Kelley was shot in his leg and torso by a citizen who pursued him after hearing gunfire. Martin says the third was, “consistent with being self-inflicted.”
Authorities say they’ve collected hundreds of shell casings and 15 magazines that hold 30 rounds each at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, where Kelley opened fire Sunday.
They’re still saying he shot himself in the head while in motion on the road, when our hero fairly clearly recalls hitting him in the upper neck/head during the chase?
I’ve had a tree stand slip from under me. I sat on the top section and kept my cool. I wasn’t hanging and had a phone on me. I retrieved the lower half with my gear bag and rope and was able to get down.
I wear a high quality harness and practice with my stand a few feet off the ground. I also make sure someone knows where I am in case I don’t show up.
Well as much as I’d like to say just bin the background check system, maybe we can actually see if they can just fix the damn reporting issues.
Ultimately I’d also really like to see reform of getting false positives and bad records corrected for thous people that have had trouble with this in the past. Supposedly it’s next to impossible to get this fixed without a costly lawsuit against the feds. :/
All you’re doing is giving legitimacy to this unconstitutional behemoth and allowing the gun grabbers a solid foothold with which to expand upon.
You don’t fix something like this. You get rid of it.
The only way to get a handle on this is to end all gun free zones. Start demanding that everyone licensed to carry a firearm be able to do so everywhere they go. We need to take all soft targets off the table.
Hey, we gotta get rid of them every year. Might as well find a use for them!
You should have tested a few of the popular generic ones you find on eBay for $15-$20 to see how they compare
america doesn’t have a gun problem
america has an asshole problem
and the way i see it most of the assholes that do this type of repugnant shit lately have been either leftists or muslims that vote for politicians that have a d behind their name
the last person that voted for politicians that had an r behind their name that did something like this that i can remember is scott loeder 8 years ago
the democrat party will soon learn the hard way the definition of the word reckoning at the ballot box as a result
If you were meaning to say Scott Roeder then it is hardly a corollary – he assassinated an abortion doctor.
Hardly as mass murder, more an assassination of a mass murderer, although it is probable that all the babies Tiller would have killed died anyway.
I feel like a lot of people here don’t have children; I imagine this product has little to no interest to someone whose household stuff stays where and how they put it. But for the rest of us – I am certainly interested in a product like this. It’s not that it would replace the bedside table; It would replace the lockbox. And that’s a big speed *improvement* relative to the alternative.
Hitler prayed for the disarmament of those who would oppose his regime too.
They really have come to the universal conclusion that the NRA wields undue influence. A myth that everybody believes because everybody says it and everybody says it because everybody says it.
The NRA “boasts” 5 million members. That’s a small percentage of the total 100-150 million actual gun owners. People who are not giving up their guns (not even the Fudds). And they vote. To a person, they vote.
I’ve never heard of a “bad conduct” discharge. I’m only familiar with Honorable, Medical, Other-Than Honorable, and Dishonorable. Only a Dishonorable discharge would not allow a person certain civil liberties such as owning a firearm. Which discharge did he actually receive?
Never mind, just looked it up. There is a Bad Conduct discharge. Never heard of it.
I want to win. Hopefully I can win 762x54r
even new york and california and illinois let you carry in church
COME ON MAN…
Same thing, different day, from all of the anti-gun/freedom crowd. Shouldn’t expect anything less from these asshats. Crowder just released an interview between him and Stephen Willeford. Really good stuff. This is a great man. He was really squared away and has his head on right, and is a modern day hero.
This will either be the push to get a massive pro gun legislation through, or a massive anti gun piece through. Hopefully Stephen Willeford’s actions and story will be enough to convince people that disarmament is not the way to go. Stay vigilant and aware, everyone. I don’t think this is the last thing to happen.
Q.: Should the government–?
A.: NOPE.
Hussein Marshall-Davis/Soetoro/Soebarkah/Obama? I don’t want to hear that POS’s name unless it’s announcement that he’s met his end either the hands of one of his adopted hometown’s ghetto thugs or succumbed to the ravages of HIV/AIDS coursing through his rail-thin, sore-ridden body..
Put this one in the wacky bullet hall of fame! Great shoot! Loved it!
Mr. Willeford, you are the man.
“The Air Force failed to enter the Texas church shooter’s info”
Bushwah. The Air Farce didn’t “fail” — it carefully chose not to report Kelley’s conviction for the same reason that the Army carefully chose not to report Jared Lee Loughner’s failed drug test. Had the Army notified NICS, Gabby Giffords might be just another back-bench Democrat. Had the Air Farce notified NICS, over a dozen people might still be alive.
This is the US military — run by careerists who are more concerned about transgender soldiers, women in combat, and politics than actually defending Americans.
Why a progtard SOP of an unloaded firearm, locked in a safe, is as useless as Hillary’s broomstick.
Or when seconds counted the AR was too many seconds away.
I hope Magpul (and the firearms business in general) sending multiple buttloads of swag to the stud.
Pretty amazing, on foot running, loading, firing, not spilling ammo all over, quit amazing. My weapons are all loaded, I don’t have any children in my home. I train in defense monthly. Great job and a good person. Be cool
I feel a need to reply with some sense and truth to this politician’s claims. There are so many inaccuracies, misdirections, and subtle lies in this frantic statement that it’s a bit stunning…
1) America is not by any means the only country that has to deal with terrorism, and 2) it is much worse in countries where the citizens are not allowed to defend themselves.
3) The only blood that flows endlessly down church floors is the saving blood of Jesus. Other than that, Americans have far more freedom to worship in peace than any other Christians in this world.
And 4) the current congress is not responsible for our freedoms to defend ourselves from enemies foreign and domestic. That was insured by the wisdom of the founders as a constitutional right, for situations like this.
What happened is certainly tragic, but Jesus said we should not be surprised when the world hates us as it did Him. We live in a fallen world. Jesus said there would be no peace, except in the heart of the saved, until He comes to establish His kingdom.
Still praying for the surviving families of this evil pos’s attack on American values. Please visit the go fund me page and give a dollar or what ever you can.
Once again a good guy with a gun stopped the bad one.
I wonder how many in that church, that fateful morning, reached for the pistol they left at home that day. Never again.
Can’t they just send letter informing purchasers of mistake, have purchaser sign knowledge of statement and save Mossberg alot of money?
Can’t wait to try this in my carbine.
It’s sad that I saw 3 posts asking if it would work on a Taurus and not 1 person answered it.
I think the above article simply proves what I have been saying all along and that is that even though the hero had a rifle he only got lucky by being able to even wound the nut case because he had on a bullet proof vest and if the hero had been in church that day armed with a handgun he would have had no chance at all of stopping the carnage.
Lets face cold hard facts the nut cases have the advantage of the element of surprise, planning, and a superior weapon that is a rifle as opposed to you sitting in church naked without a vest and armed only with an anemic pop gun tucked in your belt.
The “safest gun laws” from the state that literally gave birth to the Second Amendment. Gen. Thomas Howe would have soiled himself.
Eyes as a flame of fire. With righteousness be doth judge and make WAR…I plan on being in the army of heaven. Until then I’ll defend me and mine with my guns. Oh and we don’t live in the Roman empire where we have no rights or means to defend ourselves!
Ms. Danica Roem of Virginia I presume?
Generally the rank and file don’t seem to me to be “dumb” but rather filled with animosity that’s politically driven. The disagreement is over a wide range of political topics but gun control is the topic that gives liberals the vapors and it’s an easy target because rather than trying to explain things they don’t understand they can just mutter “murder machine” and feel superior.
The person who has a Bernie 2016 sticker on his/her Prius probably has a lot of political views that don’t jive with the guy driving a lifted F350 with NRA stickers on it and, IME, the Prius driver probably looks down the the F350 driver as being a knuckle-dragging, science hating, gun loving, war mongering, sexist, xenophobic, bigoted redneck asshole who lives in a trailer park and drinks a lot of cheap beer.
In other words; it’s a “culture war” and guns just happen to be a prominent and easy target for the differences of opinion between the sides.
[Edit] It’s also true that some POTG don’t help the situation. I have an acquaintance who I recently turned from being anti-gun to being ambivalent (better that than hard-core anti). A friend of mine had been trying to turn her for years and when the topic came up she said to me “Oh, you’re gonna be just like [redacted] and tell me I need to go buy an AR or something”. She was shocked that I didn’t take that tack and rapidly came around to the idea that people should be allowed to have whatever weapon they are most comfortable with. For her it’s a baseball bat rather than a gun. So I told her to stick with the bat. She appreciated the fact that I didn’t beat her over the head with the “guns are good you need one” rhetoric.
It’s a good idea, but I garuntee you ranges will start to ban it. Because the only group of people that ban things more than democrats are range staff.
Bet I could cut his pillows a hell of a lot easier than transitory iron. Good thing the ATF hasn’t weighed in. I’m no expert, but I don’t think it’s a good idea for a man who makes pillows for a living to spend even a short time in prison.
12 gauge Mossberg 500 didn’t think magnum slugs were that big a deal, that thing sounded like a bomb 28 inches away from my face. Best moment in my life.
Constitutional republic.
Anyone who gets their news from CNN,MSNBC,CBS,ABC,NYT or any other liberal media (sic) source is already a lost soul to the life blood of freedom. We will NEVER regain control of Freedom in this country at the ballot box. That battle is long ago lost. Freedom will require the Blood of Tyrants and Patriots in order to revive the dying branches of freedom. If you search your heart and are honest with yourself you’ll know this is true. Hoping and Faith that it will happen are just words people use when they don’t have the courage or desire to do what’s hard. I’m getting to be an old man and have seen a lot of B#ll5hit in my life. I worry little about the life I have left. My concern is for the lives of the children who have no dog in the fight but will have to suffer the consequences of our failure because we are to busy fighting among-st ourselves.
Let me know if we understand each other. Ive explained that the constitution is constantly changing to accomodate ever-evolving techonology and ethics and mentalities etc and that that happens via amendment, legislation, EOs and judicial review.
And you correct me that the ongoing evolution of techonology and societal values has had zero impact on the meaning of the constitution which remains the same today as in the late 18th century (except for the amendments) and this unchanging meaning has no ambiguity.
Do you understand what Ive said, and is this really what you meant to say?
The right to defend oneself is, indeed, a natural right. There is no rational distinction that can be made between the right to defend oneself and the tools one can use to do it, either. Whether you want to believe these things or not is irrelevant and immaterial.
So, no, our rights are actually affirmed — not bestowed — by the second amendment and the rest of the bill of rights. They are inherent to us, and it doesn’t matter the vehicle you choose to explain it, be it some deity or by the very virtue of our humanity. The conclusion is still the same and it not now, has never been, and shall never be the conclusion that you personally want it to be, which is in fact the only premise that you’ve been arguing from.
And you misunderstand the very nature of our rights affirmed — not bestowed — by the second amendment yourself. The evolution of society has less than absolutely no bearing on this whatsoever and you have not made any rational or evidentiary arguments to support anything to the contrary. Our Constitution is actually a document with fixed and unambiguous meaning, changeable only through a long and tedious process. It cannot be and has not been changed on the mere whims of passing public opinion which change as often as the wind.
So, your claim that we don’t have a constitutionally-protected right to own a fully-automatic rifle is what’s simply wrong here. Whether or not individual states choose to restrict these items is irrelevant and immaterial as well.
Speaking of the Walther brand:
IIRC, the Walther PPK that James Bond started using in “From Russia With Love” was 32 caliber, not 380; but it was supposed to be a step up in “stopping power” from the small Beretta that M told him to leave behind, because that one had been chambered in 25 caliber.
(For fans of Fleming trivia.)
Sam Colt was a sportsman? And here I thought he was a businessman (and sometimes inventor), who played both sides in the Civil War and refused to innovate when Rollin White offered him the patent for the bored-through cylinder. He’s not much of a role model after the 1850s, and I don’t know how he would be considered a “sportsman” since only a few of the guns his company made during his lifetime could be used for humanely hunting any animal larger than a rabbit.
The discussion, SEPARATE from what Mrs. Palin said, is important and worthy, and not to take away from the OP or the comments, but:
“Sarah Palin said that she’s been a victim of sexual harassment at the workplace because her co-workers know she carries a weapon”. Is incorrect.
“I think a whole lot of people know I’m probably packing so I don’t think there’s a whole lot of people who would necessarily mess with me,” is what she said, it is more supportive of 2A rights, and “concealed carry / carrying a weapon” and I think it might change a few answers above.
Jesus… The most popular gun in the country is already black… How much more do they need?