A Pizza Maker’s .357 Carry: Everyday Carry Pocket Dump of the Day

Eli, a 58-year-old pizza maker from the Bay State shows his “My Everyday Work EDC” courtesy Everyday Carry.

Frankly, much of America cannot carry at work, either because of company policies or because of they are legally prohibited locations.  Those of us who can carry have good fortune.  Like Eli, in the very gun-unfriendly state of Massachusetts.  He carries the Ruger LCR in .357, and he carries it loaded with .357s.  Wouldn’t be my first choice of loads for a snubbie, but to each his own.  Looks like he’s got a couple of speedloaders chock full of .357 JHPs too.  At first I thought they might be Remington 125gr JHPs, then I remembered that Remington’s premium defense ammo, at least in .357, is usually nickel cased.

Does anyone recognize the brand or model of speedloaders?  These are a little “blingy.”

I do like that well-worn Emerson folder.  It’s been with Eli a long time it looks like.  Ditto for the Fisher Space Pen.

So, those of you who carry a snub-nose, what is your favorite loads?  Do you carry .357s in your snubbie?  I’m partial to .38 Special+P 95-gr. Winchester Silvertips (which they don’t make anymore, but I have a couple boxes left), or 125gr. Winchester Silvertips also in .38 Special+P.  Yes, even if the gun is chambered in .357.

 

 

 

 

comments

  1. avatar Kendahl says:

    Jobs like pizza delivery are dangerous. Richard Davis, the developer of Kevlar body armor and founder of the manufacturer Second Chance, was wounded in a gunfight with armed robbers while delivering pizzas.

    1. avatar Leslie says:

      Patent Number 3,971,072 Kevlar Body Armor was invented by Richard A. Armellino of “American Body Armor” in 1975. Richard Davis developed the “First” Kevlar Vest for Second Chance in 1976. Get your fact straight…

      1. avatar Rad Man says:

        Gee whiz. Assuming you’re correct, you don’t need to be a dick about it.

        1. avatar Peter says:

          His name is Leslie, he needs to be a dick about something all the time. 😀

        2. avatar Leslie says:

          And how many Other “Dick’s” on the Blogsite ready to Pounce as soon as someone for misquoting the facts…

        3. avatar Rad Man says:

          So I suppose if Johnny Finnegan jumped off the empire state building, you would have to jump off the empire state building.

      2. avatar A Brit in TX says:

        To be fair, Kendahl did state ‘developer’ of Kevlar body armor, not inventor. You even confirmed this in your micro-tantrum. Perhaps your reading comprehension needs a little work?

        1. avatar Leslie says:

          “Richard Davis” developed Kevlar Body Armor FOR “Second Chance”! Not that Richard Davis was the “Inventor” of Kevlar Body Armor. That’s like saying that the .308 bullet was invented by Springfield Armory in 1906, when Krag-Jorgensen developed the .308 bullet in 1892…

        2. avatar A Brit in TX says:

          @Leslie, Kendahl, the OP did state that Richard Davies developed Kevlar armor, not that he invented it. Not sure where the confusion is………

        3. avatar Leslie says:

          Richard Davis developed Kevlar Body Armor for Second Chance in 1976. As DID “Richard A. Armellino “developed” and invented Kevlar Body Armor for American Body Armor a year earlier in 1975…

        4. avatar Xsquid says:

          Want to create a whiney little bitch? Name it Leslie.

          He clearly stated what you whined about. That the guy developed, not invented. You are making yourself look like an idiot.

        5. avatar frankiedee says:

          You know, although I am new here regarding leaving my own comments, I have been reading TTAG for almost two years. Leslie, I don’t get why you had to say “get your facts straight”. If correction was actually required (after all, Kendahl never used the word inventor), why be such a DICK. Geez man, can’t you be polite? And god forbid, after the facts, couldn’t you just have said sorry man, I just wanted to make a correction.
          So glad there are many more nice commenters here than guys like you.

      3. avatar B.D. says:

        Just you. You could have said it politer, But the fact that you ended your snobbish remark with “Get your facts straight” is about the biggest dick move you can do. You belong on social media or a youtube comment section with the 12 year olds.

  2. avatar Waywatcher says:

    Looks like 5 Star Speedloaders.
    I’ve seen 125 grain JHP 357 Remington loaded in their UMC line with brass cases–good stuff. Chronographed about 1270fps out of my SP101.
    I like all these choices

    1. avatar Specialist38 says:

      Yep. 125 Scallop-jacketed hollowpoints. Always been a hot load.

  3. avatar S.Crock says:

    Remington Golden Saber 125 grain +p and Federal HST are the only two currently produced .38 loads that I feel confident in with snubbies. With .357, most hollow points seem to be fine for of longer barrels but I am not a fan of 17 ounce magnum revolvers

  4. avatar GS650G says:

    It will get the job done thats for sure.

  5. avatar The Dude Abides says:

    If you’re looking for an excellent pouch for a spare loader, try jox loaders. Pricey and there’s a bit of a wait, but for everyday carry they can’t be beat for a speedloader.

    1. avatar Specialist38 says:

      Dayum….you’re not kidding they are pricey.

      1. avatar The Dude Abides says:

        True. But If it’s for carry, you’ll only need one. Low profile and quick.

        1. avatar Specialist38 says:

          You’re right…just sticker shock.

  6. avatar uncommon_sense says:

    You won’t get much velocity out of snubnose revolvers, so you might as well go with heavy bullets to ensure adequate penetration and therefore adequate “stopping power”.

    The ideal cartridge (if it is even available) would be .38 Special +P with 150 grain full wadcutters.

    Next best choice would be 158 grain hollowpoints if those hollowpoints will expand at the modest velocities that we can expect from snubnose revolvers.

    I don’t really see any point in shooting .357 Magnum out of 2-inch barrels: the significant increase in muzzle blast and flash outweighs the benefit of the tiny increase in velocity versus .38 Special +P.

    1. avatar Specialist38 says:

      If you can hit with it, why not.

      I chrono 250-300 fps difference in most 125+P and their 357 conterpart. 850 vs 1150.

      Not miniscule by any realistic definition.

      The exception is Golden Saber. The 357 is a mild load and clocks around 1075 to 110 in my LCR.

      I agree with not using 357s if you cant control them, but let’s not present false information about 357 performance from a snub.

      1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

        I stand by my numbers:
        I would rather rely on 158 grain bullets with a muzzle velocity of 900 feet-per-second (.38 Special +P) for self-defense rather than 125 grain bullets with a muzzle velocity of 1150 feet-per-second (.357 Magnum) with significantly increased muzzle blast and flash (and possibly even increased recoil).

        Even at the modest speed of 900 feet-per-second, those 158 grain bullets should have no trouble penetrating deeply in a human attacker. Can we say the same for 125 grain bullets at 1150 feet-per-second? And even 125 grain bullets penetrate just as deeply as the 158 grain bullets, why carry a load that produces the same penetration with significantly increased muzzle blast and flash?

        1. avatar Specialist38 says:

          Then you be you. Ignore facts and go with opinions.

          Obviously you will not be swayed by logic.

          I sometimes carry a 38 but it does not speak with the authority of a 357.

          Physics are physics.

        2. avatar uncommon_sense says:

          Specialist38,

          Exactly, Physics is Physics.

          The formula for momentum is mass x velocity. Thus:

          The momentum of the .38 Special +P load is —
          158 grains x 900 feet / second == 142,200 grains feet per second

          The momentum of the .357 Magnum load is —
          125 grains x 1150 feet / second == 143,750 grains feet per second

          That .357 Magnum load produces a 1% increase in momentum at the expense of significantly increased muzzle blast and flash. I think that is a really bad trade-off. Now, if that .357 Magnum load produced a 50% increase in momentum with that significant increase in muzzle blast and flash, that would be another story.

          Important note:

          Momentum is the property of an object to push another object (transfer momentum from one object to another when the two objects collide) and is the relevant property (in my opinion) with respect to wounding/incapacitating at handgun bullet velocities. I say that momentum is the relevant property at handgun bullet velocities because a handgun bullet has to penetrate to wound/incapacitate. And penetrating requires pushing tissue aside.

          Think of a vehicle that has to make its way through a large snow drift. The vehicle could be quite light and traveling at very high speed to push through the snow drift. Or the vehicle could be quite heavy and traveling at slow speed to push through the snow drift. Either combination works (assuming the same frontal area of the different vehicles). Hence it is with bullets at handgun velocities.

          Bullet energy does not become relevant until you start getting into rifle velocities where the bullet not only pushes tissue out of the way, but the bullet does it with such violent force (energy) that it produces shock waves which cause additional wounding/incapacitating mechanisms. That does not happen until bullets are impacting at considerably higher velocities — perhaps 2,000 feet-per-second minimum???

        3. avatar Specialist38 says:

          Uncommon Sense

          Momento is one component. Energy is another.

          As you double the weight of a projectile, you double the energy.

          As you double the velocity, you quadrouple the energy. Tissue stretch is a very real trauma.

          So there are many 38 and 357s with 125 grain projectile that end up in the same depth in the gel block. The violence that gets them to that point is very different. If only momentum and penetration mattered, a target wadcutter at 700 fps would be king of defensive rounds. They penetrate deep, but do little damage otherwise.

          You make your decisions. But it certainly seems like you base them on not being able to control more powerful rounds. I dont always carry a 357 but when I carry a 38, I realize that it is not as effective as a 357. The same way i carry +P or +P+ in 9mm. I want as much energy as I can control in most situations.

        4. avatar uncommon_sense says:

          Specialist38,

          My understanding is that human tissue is amazingly elastic and any temporary stretch cavity does not contribute to wounding or incapacitation.

          If that is true, then even if a 125 grain bullet impacting at 1150 feet-per-second creates a larger temporary stretch cavity than a 158 grain bullet impacting at 900 feet-per-second, it will not contribute to any greater wounding or incapacitation mechanism.

          Now, if the 125 grain bullet impacting at 1150 feet-per-second creates a larger permanent wound cavity, that would obviously tend to incapacitate faster. At that point someone has to decide whether they want enhanced wounding mechanism at the expense of increased temporary blindness and deafness (and possibly greater permanent hearing loss). And for that, there is no right or wrong answer.

          As for bullet energy, it just doesn’t come into play in any significant way at such low impact velocities. Why? Because handgun bullets do not wound or incapacitate via imparting energy. Rather, they wound or incapacitate by way of pushing tissue aside — e.g. the infamous “permanent wound channel”. And what is the greatest determining factor of permanent wound channel at typical handgun velocities? Answer: bullet geometry and momentum, not velocity.

          Finally, as for recoil, I am definitely not recoil sensitive. My every day carry is a full-size M&P40 chambered in .40 S&W and loaded with cartridges that have 165 grain bullets and muzzle velocity of 1150 feet-per-second or 180 grain bullets and muzzle velocity of 1,000 feet-per-second. When I am camping and hiking, I carry a .44 Magnum revolver loaded with cartridges that have 240 grain bullets and a muzzle velocity of 1,250 fps. (I choose modest-velocity .44 Magnum loads to reduce — wait for it — muzzle blast!)

          I don’t mind recoil at all. What I do mind is temporary blindness (at night) from excessive muzzle flash and temporary deafness (and possibly permanent hearing loss) from excessive muzzle blast when I can achieve virtually the same wounding/incapacitation ability from a cartridge without those liabilities.

    2. avatar Dan says:

      Have you looked at ANY ballistics testing in the last 60 years? Virtually everything you say is false. Please check out Luckygunner labs’ extensive tests (or whatever other modern testing you care to look at) to see this.

      1. avatar Specialist38 says:

        They do have an impressive set of data in their lab section.

    3. avatar Michael in AK says:

      Wrong uncommon sense. quit repeating this myth if you haven’t chronoed them

    4. avatar Waywatcher says:

      The difference between .357 and .38 from a snubby is more than you give it credit.
      All the JHP .38 loads I’ve chronoed are in the 800 ball park.
      All the full power JHP .357 loads I’ve chronoed are in the 1250 ball park.
      I add .38 special but the power of a magnum is real.

      1. avatar Waywatcher says:

        *I EDC .38 Special

  7. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

    My 442 is loaded with Speer 130 Gold Dot +P. Yeah, I know it’s not rated. My choice. Dad’s and my 3″ round butt 65s? 158 gr. +P lead semi-wadcutter HP. FBI load. My 6″ Python and 6″ #19. Full house magnums, but that’s generally when I’m on the farm working and likely to bump a pig.

  8. avatar daveinwyo says:

    At least the revolver is made in the U.S. Not something named after a musical instrument. Glockenspiel; noun, a percussion instrument used in kindergarten. German origin.

    1. avatar Hhhyeah says:

      Didnt know glock made a revolver…

      1. The R17 Revolver never got beyond the prototype stage of development…

        (https://images.app.goo.gl/ULjsvgL1HoqHNc3K6)

        1. avatar Specialist38 says:

          I love that thing….lmao.

        2. If you Love That, you’ll Love This! Only one problem, it NEVER Existed in .45APC or in any other caliber…

          ( https://images.app.goo.gl/14LBh4rQTCfP6Y7U7 )

        3. avatar Specialist38 says:

          Which is why its funny…..sheesh.

  9. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

    Got a Benchmade Emerson that’s got more wear than that. Good dump! Keep slinging those pizzas!

  10. avatar Specialist38 says:

    Nice dump. The 357 LCR is a pocket rocket for sure.

    The loaders a re 5 Star. They are the only ones i have found to work for me with an LCR ( they have specific model for LCRs that is thinner).

    You can get black or zombie green if you dont like bare alluminum.

  11. avatar Hannibal says:

    Someone carrying a snub-nosed revolver and two reloads is very optimistic or pessimistic, I’m not sure which.

    1. avatar Specialist38 says:

      Better to have em and not need em…….

      I usually carry a speed loader and a speed strip.

      1. avatar Hannibal says:

        I’ve qualified on revolvers and semi-autos. Hell, I even did some force-on-force simunitions training with a revolver. And while I can (er, could) reload a revolver pretty fast using a speed-loader, it takes a lot more dexterity and shifting of hands than dropping one mag and putting another in. Lots more room for error.

        But that’s not even what I’m talking about, really. I’d say the same thing about someone carrying a 5-6 shot automatic with two magazines. The idea that you’re going to be in a gunfight where you’re going to need to reload… twice… while going about your daily business is way out there. And if you’re going to go out there thinking you’re going to need more than 10 shots (‘every day carry’), you should probably just be carrying something with that built-in capacity.

        It’s like a fat guy who thinks he’ll win a bike race by paying 4,000 for a custom carbon fiber bicycle that he uses for daily trips to McDonald’s. To each his own, but as I said… it’s optimistic or pessimistic about the realities of gunfights.

        1. avatar Manse Jolly says:

          …”The idea that you’re going to be in a gunfight where you’re going to need to reload… twice… while going about your daily business is way out there. …”

          Other than police, I believe the number is zero. I’ve stated this before and the resulting comments are …interesting..

        2. avatar GridSquare says:

          Manse, although it’s low, it’s not zero. The guy who killed that POS in Texas, that one that shot up that church, I believe he reloaded a couple times. Then there was also the Korean shop owners in the LA riots. Granted those situations are quite rare, I still wouldn’t say confidently say “zero”. That goes for any situation.

        3. avatar B.D. says:

          Nobody cares what the odds are Mance… Carry as much as you can, as comfortably as you can. The end.

  12. avatar Kyle says:

    Always does my heard good to see a special. As to the excessive whining about speedloaders and muzzle velocities. There are many good quality bullets that are designed for short barrel revolvers so you get a full burn of the powder out of a two inch barrel and as to speedloaders. If you actually practice loading from a speed loader, you’d be terrified how fast you can do it.

    I can load a revolver slightly faster than I can run a magazine. into and out of many pistols.

    Can’t beat the inherent accuracy of a fixed barrel. I’ll take 2″ revolver for accuracy over 3″ pistol most days.

    If I get a malfunction in my revolver, which does happen but is exceeding rare at least i have the satisfaction of knowing I have a nice expensive rock to throw. 🙂

    1. avatar Hhhyeah says:

      While youre doing your second reload i still have 5 in the mag…

      1. avatar ai338 says:

        Don’t you know? Any semi will jam if you look at it funny.

      2. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

        Hhhyeah, maybe, not so much. I’m faster with a semi-auto mag, but I am not far behind with a speed loader. Qualifications standards were the same for both. Always qualified 100%. Happy to have N. Fl. Public Safety Institute make them available.

  13. avatar Specialist38 says:

    I also wanna know how he uses that holster….with the velcro and all….

    1. avatar WI Patriot says:

      My guess is that it’s some sort of 2 piece design, has a gun piece, and a belt piece, and/or a vehicle piece…

      1. avatar Specialist38 says:

        I wondered if he had a barb side sewn into a pocket and the fuzzy stuff on the holster

        Been looking for options like that for my vest.

  14. avatar WI Patriot says:

    .357 snubbie for B/U, loaded with 135gr +P Speer GDHP(23921)…2 additional speedloaders with same…

    His speedloaders are 5-Star…

    https://www.5starfirearms.com/Speed-Loading-s/106.htm

  15. avatar Vic Nighthorse says:

    Makes me wince just looking at it.

    1. avatar Specialist38 says:

      It stops stinging when you stop squeezing…..cant say that on the business end.

  16. avatar possum, destroyer of arachnids says:

    Pizza sounds good, but it’s not worth dying for. If the trash dumpster is on Pizza Joints property but the trash dumpster is owned by FliesaBuzzin Sanitation can they both shoot you for digging in the trash?

    1. avatar GridSquare says:

      Sometimes criminals simply shoot you for it.

    2. avatar Xsquid says:

      Making pizza kills people?

      It clearly states he is a pizza maker, not delivery driver.

  17. avatar Cloudbuster says:

    I am looking at this on my phone so it’s hard to see. Has he done some deep cutting on the grip of the LCR?

  18. avatar OldProf49 says:

    Now THIS is a realistic EDC! You can harp on revolver vs. semi auto and how many reloads to carry, but Eli has figured out what works for him Every Day. That is what the E and the D mean, isn’t it? I refuse to believe that some of the load outs we see are actually Carried (the C) on-body every day. I’m much more likely to believe that Eli actually carries this every day.

    I’m retired now, but for many years my AEDC (Actual Every Day Carry) was a 642 in an IWB holster from Ted Blocker, 1 or 2 speed strips, a Spyderco Delica, a small Swiss Army knife, a small Maglite (2AAA batteries), keys, wallet, and flip phone. Yes, it was before LED flashlights and smartphones. Those were the days…

    Yes, the speed loaders are by 5 Star. The ones pictured are sold on the Ruger website (shopruger.com) and work very well. If you want a color, you’ll have to go to the 5 Star website, and there’s an additional wait time for colors.

    If I’m ever in Massachusetts, I’d like to buy a pizza from Eli. I admire his commitment to carry concealed in that state.

  19. avatar Jean-Claude says:

    I like the idea of a .357 snubby for an EDC. It seems like the best power to size ratio available. I even know the one I want—a S&W 640 Pro. It’ll be expensive, but it won’t depreciate, and being all stainless will make it a bit easier to shoot at the range.

    But I fear ever having to use one in a DGU. The Yankee Marshall on YouTube related what happened when he had a hangfire on one of his .357 revolvers—it went off after he’d removed his hearing protection, and ended up with a ruptured eardrum. 9mm is going to be bad enough, but being totally deaf when the police show up isn’t going to be a good thing.

    This is also why I didn’t let my buddy at the LGS talk me into a Model 69 in .44 Magnum as my carry pistol, either.

    1. avatar OldProf49 says:

      This is a major reason I don’t care for 357 magnum snub revolvers. Yes, their ballistics indicate they will be effective, but both the noise and recoil in a small, light weight revolver is nothing to ignore. It requires more (painful) range practice than a number of other effective choices. That is one reason I switched from a lightweight 38 snub to a similarly sized 9 mm and later to a compact 380. I already had some hearing loss and nerve damage in my dominant hand and didn’t want it to get any worse. I think the 357 cartridge found its best defensive use in the medium frame 4 inch revolver. Cops didn’t change to 9 mm to get better bullets, just more of them.

  20. avatar Sean G./The Rookie says:

    My wheelie is only a .38, but I load Buffalo Bore 110 grain +P (all copper hollow point). Thinking of giving some of the Underwood loads a try.

  21. avatar RidgeRunner says:

    Great pocket dump, very relatable. I have a Ruger .38 LCR (wife carries, actually), and my other snubbie is also a Ruger, the incredible awesome epic beastly hunk o’ steel. Super Redhawk Alaskan in .44 Magnum. I’m sure someone here will think it’s stupid, wasting all that velocity in a 2.5″ barrel, but I LOVE shooting it and it’s one of my favorite handguns. The recoil and muzzle blast some are apparently afraid of are non-factors for me. I saw it, i wanted it, i shoot it, i love it. Not so different from the Shockwave (and the Bodyguard and the Marlin Scout in 45-70 and the Century AK and the GlockZilla in 10mm), i’m long past the point of giving a damn what other people think, and can afford to get whatever i want. I come here for the rich base of knowledge some posters possess and many informed opinions (Dyspeptic Gunsmith, guy knows his stuff), and entertainment when i laugh at the knowitalls who cast aspersions on whatever they don’t shoot or however they don’t hunt.

  22. avatar Ward says:

    I carry the .38 special +p loads in my .38 and .357 snubbies unless I am in the woods. Too much noise, too much penetration and recoil for urban environment for me. I also like the pizza makers key chain flashlight and swiss army knife. Much like mine except I always have two flashlights. Retired LEO, and I like a back up.

  23. avatar raptor jesus says:

    NOPE nope nope nope nope. And nope.
    Anyone who can go through a full cylinder of .357 in an LCR is a sociopath.

    1. avatar Cloudbuster says:

      Well, thanks for the diagnosis!

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