Yesterday we watched the terrible events unfold in San Bernardino, California and the common question among the various news organizations was what kind of person would carry out this kind of attack. I was at the helm of TTAG’s coverage yesterday and despite some prodding from the other editors I resisted posting what little information we had about the shooting suspects until we had a more complete picture of what actually happened — the very last thing I wanted was a repeat of the confusion following the Sandy Hook attacks, and posting names without context allows rampant speculation to fill the void instead of facts. Twenty four hours later the investigation has uncovered enough information that we can start piecing together the different parts of the puzzle with greater clarity, and the picture that is starting to emerge appears to be one of a pre-planned terrorist attack perpetrated by a “radicalized” couple . . .
The names of the suspected attackers have been released as Syed Rizwan Farook and his wife, Tashfeen Malik.
Syed was an American citizen, born in the United States, who had worked as an “environmental specialist” for the San Bernardino County health department for the last five years. Born and raised a Muslim, his history didn’t immediately raise any red flags with his friends and family but his relationship with his wife appears to have changed all that.
Tashfeen Malik was a Pakistani national who was in the country on a K-1 visa — a document issued to the fiance of an American citizen to allow them to enter the country but does not provide citizenship. She had married Syed two years ago and the couple had a six month old child together. Syed’s coworkers at the health department threw them a baby shower when they were first expecting.
The portrait that investigators are painting is one of an increasing “radicalization” of the couple. The common speculation is that Tashfeen greatly influenced Syed’s behavior and caused him to be increasingly radicalized. Government officials state that Syed had been in contact with people who were known or suspected terrorists in recent years, and may have been in direct contact with overseas terrorists during his 2014 trip to Saudi Arabia.
Following this “radicalization” the couple appears to have started preparing for a terrorist attack of some sort. There’s evidence that the couple had what is described as a “bomb making facility” in their garage, complete with pipe bombs armed with simple fuses (the kind of thing that can be assembled from store-bought items and online schematics). They also purchased two AR-15 rifles — one DPMS and one Smith & Wesson M&P-15, two of the cheapest and most widely available modern firearms on the market. Reports also indicate that two handguns were recovered of unknown make and model. Investigators have said that two of these guns were “traced” back to legal purchases although which specific firearms had been traced was not disclosed.
The weapons found (specifically the pipe bombs) indicate that the couple was preparing for a mass casualty attack of some sort in the future. What is not known is whether this particular event was their first choice of target. The fact that they did not use all of their weapons at the event indicate that the attack may have been thrown together at the last moment rather than carefully planned.
It appears that this was another in a long string of terrorist attacks focused on western countries like the European Union and the United States. There do not appear to be any groups specifically claiming responsibility at this time which indicates that this may simply be a “lone wolf” attack based on the same ideology instead of a coordinated attack directed from overseas. This would seem to contradict President Obama’s protestations that America is safe from a Paris style attack, and the patent illegality of the firearms used (according to California state law) seems to support the idea that stricter gun control laws would have had no impact on stopping this latest terrorist attack.
Wiccans! Damn Wiccans! And Buddhists!
And Sun Worshippers are causing global warming.
CHRISTIANS , CHRISTIANS , CHRISTIANS .
A Girl Scout with PMS…
Lets not forget the fat people created by global climate change and the skinny people created by global climate change and those people who are just right , created by global climate changes .
Fat kids , skinny kids , kids that eat a lot , tall kids , short kids , even kids with chicken pox , love climate , global climate , the kind kids love to fear .
LOL…I imagined as the news came out last night that these were Muslims, Obama throwing shit around the white house, kicking the furniture and smashing stuff screaming “why couldn’t it have been a white Christian! Son of a bitch!”
I get what you’re saying, but hard for me to LOL about any of this tragic story.
You can safely bet he will be asking for this in his prayers , on his knees , on his rug , facing Mecca , Friday night at the most beautiful sound he has ever heard .
Well, these are the first Muslims all year in America to perpetrate a mass shooting, while the rest have been, IIRC, Christians. Ban Christianity, the true religion of violence.
(Oh, wait…never mind. I thought this was roll call.)
NOOOPE. Just Chuck Teste.
(What Would Bob Dobbs Do?)
Ha! I haven’t heard from the subgeniuses in years!
“fraudulent but profound explanations for inexplicable manifestations.”
Southern baptist psychos
I’m still waiting for Accur81 to report back on that 3rd shooter that suddenly wasn’t. They CONSISTENTLY said 3 shooters from the morning onwards, then suddenly the shooter was an accomplice and wounded in the woods, then he was wanted on unrelated business??
I don’t typically go in for conspiracies, but this one is just too weird and immediately hinky.
Malicious Mazdaists indeed.
The 3rd shooter was in play until suddenly, he wasn’t.
I was listening to the scanner live as it was unfolding (AFAIK before it hit the media) and it seemed like the 3 rifle shooter information came from one early witness who insisted that it was 3. The witness was 100% sure about that. My guess is that the witness was simply mistaken.
However, I read a story about some shady “middle easterners” moving in close by, visiting the couple alot, and have since packed out of the neighborhood without a trace (so far). Perhaps it was one of them; unarmed and offering guidance/prayer or armed and covering their re-entrance into the building. The 3rd could hae been dropping off equipment if the operation was carried out in haste (someone at the party pissed them off).
I, too, would like to hear Accur81 chime in if he can.
Some where in America tonight, there are more radicalized Moslems who are building bombs and holding planning sessions concerning attacking Americans.
Everyone needs to get real serious about where we are headed and what we can each do to prepare for what may be an onslaught of attacks.
I have written my Congressman and my two (totally worthless) Senators and urged them to start protecting America and Americans and to not support any acceptance of Muslim refugees. Seems harsh, but Richard Reid (the shoe bomber) was British and the Boston bombers were Chechen.
I got 2 mosques within walking distance of my house and the genius pols of CA insist on me being disarmed. At least when I leave home.
Somewhere in America tonight, tens of millions of Leftists are building memes and holding planning sessions to disarm the American people.
I hate Islamists, but they are not 1/1000th of the threat to my life, liberty and happiness that my Progressive countrymen are.
This!! The odd gang banger and the odd devout Muslim chopping peoples heads off are no more a threat, ultimately, than the chances of getting hit by lightening,
But a nation wide gun ban in response to the odd terror attack is the greatest danger to our freedoms.
For the love of civilization, crack a effen history book. Or twenty.
Islam has destroyed every civilization it has infected since its’ founding 1400-ish years ago. Even the adorably-warm-and-fuzzy-Pluto_killer Neil DeGrasse Tyson will tell you this in no uncertain terms.
If allowed to be in the US in any numbers. Muslims are gonna Muslim. They have never done anything else, anywhere else, EVER.
Please, do go visit Dearborn MI and tell me how well they are assimilating to our culture. Oh wait, they’re just going to implement their own primitive culture, the one that made the last places they lived s-holes filled with animals. Dearborn is a third-world dump, it’s like DET.
Seriously, learn what these people have done since the dawn of ‘them’. They destroy civilizations and replace it with theocracy and all the ignorance that entails.
@16V: 1st Amendment protects their Americans right to practice any religion as long as you are not otherwise hurting any one else.
Just like the 2nd Amendment should protect our right to any weapon we please as long as we aren’t using it to initiate force.
Stop cherry picking. Grow up and stop sterotyping. Are there evil men in the world? Yes. Do they all wear the same clothes? No.
So tired of the hypocrisy.
No 16V, you’re entirely correct. This is why western europe is done. In twenty or thirty years, W.E. will be under Sharia law.
We, at this point, only have five million muslims in a country of over three hundred million. So right now, our greatest threat are the progressive/statists using the Muslim “threat” to impose more government tyranny.
But to me, it is obvious what is needed to counter the threat from the progressives and their attack on our traditional american culture, That counter would be if there is a voluntary, (underline voluntary) christian revival, a return to our Christian roots. Without that, I believe any “victory” would look more like the mass death of France after their revolution rather than after our own victory over England and the relatively peaceful transition to our american republic.
In the end, I believe that the progressives and their support of all things that attack our Christian roots, including the encouragement of immigration of an ideology entirely hostile to our history of religious freedom and individual liberty; is the direct result of our turning our backs on the Christ and the bible.
I believe there will be this revival. It is promised. But I believe there will be more persecution of Christians, even here in this country, before this happens. As is also prophesized. But in the end, the love of the Christ, leading the hosts of heaven, will prevail.
ThomasR, Our roots aren’t Christian, they’re conveniently deist at most generous.
Regardless, I think we do agree that our US big picture “value system” is completely incompatible with Islamists, regardless of whether we are Baptist, Mormon, atheist, Catholic, Protestant, whatever.
We may not always agree, but we (grudgingly at times) agree to disagree, live and let live. Islam has no such provision, there is only a world of Islam in their belief system.
Again 16V, we agree. The only proven ideology incompatible with traditional american freedom has been Progressivism, and Islam. The rest; Buddhism, Ba-hai, agnostic, catholic, Jews, black, red, brown or white; as long as they support individual freedom, the constitution, personal responsibility, and the bearing of arms, we can agree to dis-agree.
I again have agreement here with you with the exception of the founding of this country . The original inhabitants may have been deist or theist but the European settlers who first came here were most certainly Christian and most of the founding fathers , albeit flawed as we all are , considered themselves Christian , prayed openly to the God of Jacob , Isaac and Abraham and wrote generously of their faith . Even Jefferson , contrary to modern progressive commentary , considered himself a Christian .
I know we disagree on this but as stated , that is one of the things that makes us Americans and not Muslim .
” . . .Islam has destroyed every civilization it has infected since its’ founding 1400-ish years ”
One of the most intellectually dangerous things we can do is extend moral equivalency to Islam. It is not the same as other religions and it is most certainly not the same in its current militant guise as other religions. A worldwide social movement has turned a relatively insular Islam into something far more radical than it’s earlier versions from the last century. What we are dealing with now is dangerous in the extreme. Those people what to kill us. Islam sees itself as a “religion of peace”—when we’re all dead.
You know what, Mitch…that’s not unlike what I have been thinking as well.
ISIS, et al does not really scare me all that much. The current “worry” is the right-left escalation cycle crap like this might cause.
One attack…who does it does not really matter all THAT much.
Lefty politicians push for more gun control.
Hard core righty does not like that, goes “postal”
Left politicians push harder..more “control.”
If this cycle gets started, it can’t lead to anywhere good for anybody.
Meanwhile, the Progressive nutjobs in this country all rally around their firm belief that WE “leave each other alone” types are the problem. It stretches credulity.
You forgot the part where right-wing politicians create things like “terrorist watchlists” and due process free assassinations. Which left-wing politicians will then happily use for their own purpose.
Didn’t forget…implied in “Resistance” and “Control.”
Spot on, Mitch.
And remember, there were neighbors who witnessed a lot of suspicious activity, but were more afraid of being called a racist than anything those hajis might do.
So many “Americans” are wrapped up in labels, not being called names and covering their own ass. They are allowing the insidious haji to infiltrate, spread his vile ideology, subvert his submissive neighbors, and openly attack those who resist. Their culture is playing the long game for keeps; yet it seems like our game is no longer than one of hopscotch for schoolyard bragging rights.
Thanks for waiting and posting facts (as best we know them) instead of new posts every 5 minutes yesterday, with possibly incorrect information.
Hear, hear! I was impressed by the restraint shown in TTAG’s coverage yesterday. I understand the desire to find out what happened as quickly as possible, but once the shooting stops, there’s time to sort out the facts, and no need to rush to press with little more than hearsay and rumors.
Some of TTAG’s coverage of similar events in the past has been, shall we say, quite a bit sloppier. I vote to keep Nick in charge of stories like this.
The reward for doing your work well: more work. Still, it’s nice to have coherent information.
Yup, well put together and just the facts as we know them. Thanks Nick.
I find myself in agreement with both commenters above. Good job, Nick!
This is the first article I have read, out of many from many different sources, that simply laid out the known facts, without any unreasonable speculation or political commentary. Thank you.
What happened to the 3rd and 4th suspects? Was this an error in the initial reporting?
Were there only the 2 terrorists?
Was posing this exact same question earlier today. Wasn’t there THREE shooters?
Haven’t there been reports that the third shooter was in custody? If so, who is THAT? Why are we ONLY hearing about these two, this married couple?
The SBPD chief claimed yesterday that the third person was someone who was wanted in connection to a different case, and apparently the media confused the story. Whether or not you choose to believe that is up to you, but it certainly wouldn’t be the first time that initial reports in a case like this were inaccurate.
That’s an interesting line of shiite. There were three suspects all night, until suddenly, there weren’t.
A thinking man would wonder if that was the FBI operative who pushed this filth to do what it did. Not like the Feebies don’t have a long history of such shenanigans.
Yeah, a former LEO friend of mine isn’t far from there and was listening to the police calls on her scanner – she even heard gunshots over the radio as they were cornering the SUV. There were three suspects according to the officers involved…except suddenly now there aren’t.
From what I was lstening to, it sounded like at the time that they were expecting 3 suspects in the vehicle. At least that’s what the radio traffic sounded like to me. AFAIK, the number of shooters came from one early eyewitness that insisted it was 3. They were told three, they expected three, and all traffic after that was fixated on the number.
He looked just like the guy hanging around Tim McVeigh , just a little older now . HUM ?
Yup. The San Bernardino PD Chief clarified that in the 6PM press conference.
The third person was not involved in the SUV chase, at all.
In other news, photo analysts have discovered a giant mouse, and a monkey, living on Mars.
I heard it live on a scanner when it was happening (before, during, and after any engagement of suspects). The 3 shooter information came from an eyewitness who was sure that it was 3. My guess is that the witness was mistaken.
And the 3rd suspect from Qatar mysteriously vanishes. Curious that.
Has it been established that the weapons were illegal in California? Aren’t they legal, with bullet buttons and 10 round magazines?
Yes! That’s my question. First, the weapons were “long guns” (applause for restraint on the part of the MSM). Then they were “AK-style rifles.” OK, you can get thumbhole stock single stack AKs. Now we hear they’re ARs? I’m interested to know if they were CA legal, if they bought them in NV or AZ, or what?
The TV was on in the waiting room at work all day, and though I couldn’t stand to listen to much because of their need to prattle on and fill time, I did appreciate the consistency of Wolf Blitzer continuing to say “long guns” and “handguns” instead of speculating or just outright fabricating like we’ve seen in the past.
I have the exact same question… were these CA-compliant rifles w/ fixed mags and/or bullet buttons with 10-round mags?
I’m guessing they took the 45 secs it takes to remove the stupid bullet button and replace it with a standard mag release. Weird how the cops didn’t burst in and arrest them as soon as they did it or how the law didn’t dissuade them. That extra 2 years on top of 14 life sentences is a real deterrent. The mags were owned before the “parts kit” ban, pre-ban or just bought in Nevada/AZ. Weird how all those laws didn’t stop them.
I blame Leland Lee.
from what I’ve seen there were a few 30rd mags and neither of the ar’s had bullet button.
Not legal here in CA
65-75 rounds were fired in the center–approximately 150 total during encounter. The deceased were armed with DPMS AR-15 & S&W M&P15 along with a Llama & S&W 9mm pistols. They had 1600 rounds of .223 & 200 rounds of 9mm. There were four 30 round magazines found on hand. Bullet buttons were mentioned (discussing mag capacity limits), but no further details yet.
Those are all pretty pricey firearms compared to lower end stuff . Probably no FTFs .
Why say “radicalized”?
When a follower of a belief system emulates the actions of the founder of that belief system; as Muhammad did in his mass murdering terror attacks against the infidels in his spreading of Islam, then by their light, they are simply being devout (good) Muslims.
so basically, his wife yaked so damn much that he decided to go on a spree?
Better put Shannon’s husband on a watch list just in case. 😉
I have little idea what portion of Muslims are Jihadis or Jihadi sympathizers but I continue to posit that it us unethical to assign collective guilt for any crime in which the accused had no part.
What collective guilt? But why act surprised when a group of people that hold up a mass murdering psychopath as some one to be respected, honored and especially emulated; will at times actually act like a bunch of mass murdering psychopaths.
PEW research in November 2015 yielded these results:
Around 60 million across eleven Muslim-dominated countries support ISIS. There are about 1.6 billion Muslims around the world as compared to about 2.2 billion Christians worldwide.
Hitler perpetrated the Second World War with a German population significantly less than 60 million, as did the Japanese.
The important question is what percentage of the 1.5 billion other Muslims will take up arms against the Islamist radicals and what percentage will decide to side with them and attempt to establish the New Caliphate? Until we can answer that question we must eye every follower of Mohammed with some degree of suspicion. Intelligent caution is not the same as bigotry.
Do you even listen to yourself?
Let’s from it this way: ‘Until we know what proportion of proportion of 300 million Americans with hands are apt to use them for strangling, we must treat them all like potential murderers.’
I read an article today that about two years ago Syed dropped out of the mosque he was attending. I believe the older Tsarneev followed the same pattern. Seems like there is a pattern to the radicalized Muslim shooter behavior, just like there is with the non-Muslim spree shooters as they decompensate. Trouble is recognizing the pattern before it goes ballistic. The Mata Hari wife is interesting — wasn’t Tsarneev’s mother part of his radicalization? Obama’s solution is to broad brush everyone as a potential terrorist, hence the obsession with 30 round magazines, AR ghost guns, and the fantasy of the gun show loophole. This is like banning cars because there are occasional drunk drivers, a fraction of whom do cause fatal accidents. I state this not sarcastically, because Moms Demand Action follows from Mothers Against Drunk Drivers, with the neo-fascist sobriety check lanes, which I believe is one of the reasons average people have no love for the police. If pushed for a true answer MADD would probably advocate banning cars, as would Obama, in favor of forcing everyone to “interact” on city buses; as MDA and Obama really advocate banning all firearms in favor of an interactive huddle under a desk, waiting in terror for the crazy person to arrive at your office.
I used to like the acronym MDA – a while ago. It was quite fun and not illegal.
molecular structures matter.
The big question now is did Syed ever have an FBI handler like Tsarnaev.
Salafis hate non-Salafi Muslim preachers with a passion, because they possess the theological knowledge and authority to dismantle their arguments, and local Muslims will actually listen to them out of respect for said authority if nothing else.
In some countries, they’re actually shooting up non-Salafi mosques and killing the imams. For example:
Good thing the NSA is spying on everyone so events like this doesn’t happen. Oh, wait. Well, at least the Federal Reserve is keeping the economy on track and our money sound. Oh, never mind.
Don’t worry Omer, this nugget goes into the algos to predict behavior, just like a million other ones.
The white-papers about their predictive-algos are now a much quieter release than they were a few years ago. But the NSA’s programmers are still working diligently.
I promise you Minority Report will not be done by “precogs” in a tub. It will be (and *sorta* is right now) by Bluffdale’s computers, a whole lotta math, and really vague answers acted on by sketchy agents motivated to “find something”.
As a guy who works in machine learning, let me tell you: there will be a lot of false positives if they do it that way. Like, getting 20% wrong is not uncommon. But when it’s 20% for the purpose of determining whom to spam with an ad, it’s no big deal, whereas if it’s 20% who are put on a no-fly list with no procedure for review…
It’s an ongoing project. They’ve been filtering web traffic for the last decade, pretty thoroughly.
Having the entirety of the internet available to mine using XKEYSCORE and others, the algos have gotten much more drilled down. That said – until everyone is tracked 24/7 and their travel patterns analyzed in real time, the bad guys can always go old school and avoid getting on the radar at all.
Like Hillary? She’s a radical. After all she loved the book “rules for radicals”
About two weeks ago, Morten Storm, a former Danish convert and Al Qaeda member, predicted an attack on US soil within two weeks. He was right almost to the day, and he’s no alarmist or conspiracy nut.
Tonight, Storm said that this attack was just one of several planned by this lovely couple, which must be correct judging by the number of pipe bombs that they had built. He also says that the two angels must have been working with a network or cell. Wanna bet that he’s wrong?
Morten Storm is a valuable resource. I saw that prediction you referenced. His track record is good. Wouldn’t bet against him, but as the man in Jurassic Park said, “Hold onto your butts!”
Thank you. Had not heard of this guy- here is more:
It’s a shame the crazies are already coming out of the woodwork waving the false flag.
#1. Called it.
#2. Anybody else getting in a Crusading spirit?
I’d suggest taking a break from the never-ending crusade and let these folks sort things out for themselves on their own turf. They’re perfectly capable of focusing their death-cult on their own kind.
pwrserge, I’ve already checked that box. But this is a free country. You can buy a plane or a boat ticket and get just about anywhere you really want to. Or you can join the military. So what’s stopping you?
Been there done that. The military fights for muslims not against them.
“Been there done that”? I wasn’t aware you’ve been to the middle east and killed muslims there. Am I mistaken?
Am I missing it? I probably am so no snarky comments from me.
Question: Where is there a picture (a single picture) of Syed Rizwan’s wife Tashfeen Malik? I want to see one pic of what Tash is wearing on her head.
They all look the same in their burqas.
That’s what I’m thinkin’…
And what’s with the picture of this guy anyway? Looks like they took it after he croaked.
I miss Grindstone telling us how he has muslim friends, and we are all a bunch of racists.
Well, I’ve known a few Muslims who were really nice. My vet is a Paki. Good doctor, good guy. My primary care physician was a Pakistani woman. She wore the hijab, but she shook my hand. Oh the horror!
One of the nicest guys I ever met was a Moroccan. Took his Catholic girlfriend home to meet his parents. That sweet man was gunned down in a robbery of the New York City convenience store where he worked. It was pretty damn awful.
They’re not all bad. Maybe most aren’t bad. Maybe very few are bad. But when Muslims are bad because of their religion, they should be called out for it. Anyone who says that they shouldn’t is nuts. The truth isn’t racist; it’s just the truth.
Blaming a whole group for the actions of the sickos is just like the fools that blame all gun owners for the actions of murderers. There is only one solution to such matters, whether a jihadi or your average basement dwelling loser mass killer, blow them out of their socks when they come through the door. The real enemy is the politicians and their lemmings that prevent us from being able to do that in the killing grounds known as gun free zones.
Read about the last 20 years of Muhammad’s life – they are quite different than the last 3 years of the life of Jesus.
I doubt that most people here, or even in America, are blaming ALL Muslims for the actions of the 60 million or so dangerously radical Muslims. We are simply saying that you must act with caution when dealing with any Muslim because you cannot tell in advance which can be trusted. The terrorists among them can, do and will continue to use this to their advantage and our detriment.
So your ‘Muslim’ friend is like my ‘Christian’ friends, they cherry pick the 5% of happy-be-nice from the 95% of kill-the-non-believers and apostates.
I know an incredibly nice (and very erudite) “Muslim” guy who works as a bartender. In a strip club. He follows his religion just about as well as 99% of the “Christians” I know follow theirs. Thankfully.
Meanwhile, there are cretins who believe in the justifications of a Bronze Age warlord, and his convenient rewrite of the OT to serve his needs. And they live it.
“So your ‘Muslim’ friend is like my ‘Christian’ friends, they cherry pick the 5% of happy-be-nice from the 95% of kill-the-non-believers and apostates.”
Wait…are you saying 95% of Christians are mass murderers? It really seems like that’s what you are trying to say.
Cuz if you are saying that, you are, unequivocally, full of absolute and clearly stated, shit.
JR, That was most emphatically not what I was saying.
I was pointing out that all the Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) have texts that are filled with “kill the nonbelievers, apostates, whatever” there is 5% of happylovejoy in all of them. The point was that the current majority of Christians, and most US-based Jews tend to focus on the happy stuff, ignoring the majority that requires them to kill everyone else and make the world in the book’s image.
Islam still has a whole bunch of devotees who actually believe their book.
>> So your ‘Muslim’ friend is like my ‘Christian’ friends, they cherry pick the 5% of happy-be-nice from the 95% of kill-the-non-believers and apostates.
People generally don’t want to be waging an eternal war to conquer the world, sacrificing themselves and their kids for the sake of some nebulous idea, regardless of the religion. For most, their religion is cultural – it’s transmitted from parents (who are usually like that themselves). So if you ask them if they’re Muslim, they’ll tell that they are, but many haven’t even read the Koran in full, and only care about the basic stuff like regular prayers and no pork/alcohol (and even then they’ll still “forget” about it a lot).
You must be including Old Testament guidance. Guidance that was specifically given to the Hebrew People, under specific circumstances. Can you cite an example of modern New Testament Christianity that contains instructions like killing non-believers? In fact, Jesus was adament to both his disciples and the early church that they would be shunned, attacked, and even hunted down and killed. All of which happened, and is still happening around the world, I might add.
Thanks Skeptical ,
I also was a little unsure about the new covenant scripture that implored Christians to kill non believers . Maybe they found a new piece of scripture I haven’t seen yet in some cave and aired it’s discovery on the History channel
Should I killing Mooslems ?
Jesus never said to not follow “The Law”. In fact, he says many times that “The Law” is to be followed until the “ends of heaven and earth”. That he has come “not to abolish, but fulfill The Law”.
The “church” has now “understood” that to mean something utterly different than the words on the page indicate, unlike they did in the past. Just like a flat earth, an earth-centric solar system, or, well, everything, the “church” finds a way to twist language to fit the current understanding and remain ‘relevant’.
‘The Church’ used to the Bible to justify slavery, until it wasn’t culturally acceptable. Then they found a way to interpret the Bible to mean something different. Religion is always playing catch-up to cultural norms in a desperate effort to keep the money flowing.
The Mooslems were the ones who rejuvenated slavery in the 1400 – 1500’s and most thinking Christians deplored the abuses that accompanied it in pen and speech and it was Christianity that eventually brought about it’s demise .
Wisdom, as usual, from Ralph: “They’re not all bad. Maybe most aren’t bad. Maybe very few are bad. But when Muslims are bad because of their religion, they should be called out for it. Anyone who says that they shouldn’t is nuts. The truth isn’t racist; it’s just the truth.”
The head-in-the-sand-bed-wetters in the White House refuse to recognize and announce that religious ideology has a part in this. Many others seem to believe it is the only factor, or that all muslims want all non-muslims dead. Neither of these views are grounded in reality.
Red or others –
I am curious how many Muslims you have known. Are Ralph and Grindstone the only other ones here that have ever met a Muslim?
I have known a few. They have mostly struck me as being very nice and also observing their faith in a way that did not impose on others. I have also known people whose parents probably were Muslim but the kids seemed to be assimilating. My guess is that in the long run that is what will happen with most such migrants, much like it has for other ethnic groups. (My family has Irish, Italian Jewish and other roots that were not much welcome at times in the US but mostly just seem like part of the mix now). Obviously there have been some Islamist nutjobs that stand out. But can we really say that there haven’t also been nutjobs that call themselves Christian, or conservative, or 2nd amendment supporters? And you don’t want them to represent you, right? Let’s give the same courtesy to the majority of peaceful Muslim immigrants that probably came here seeking the same opportunities and freedoms our ancestors had.
Sure, that sounds fair. So lets name some nut job Christians……you know. the ones that killed Mapplethorpe for putting a crucifix in a pan of urine, oh, Mapplethorpe is still alive and not in hiding. Unlike Salman Rushdie that still has a Fatwa, (death warrant) on his head for writing the “Satanic Verses”. Or Theo Van gogh murdered by a muslim for making a film “dis-respectful”of Islam. Or the many atheists that have been murdered for making fun of the Christ…….oh that didn’t happen, but it did for Charlie Hebdo writers after they printed cartoons of Muhammad. Or the attempt in Texas by the two muslim terrorists that tried to shoot up the Muhammad painting expo.
Nut job second amendment supporters? Nope, we’re more law abiding than the police. Hmm, sorry, I’m just not coming up with those nutty homicidal conservatives that have shot up a city like in Mumbai, India by a bunch of muslim terrorists Or the massacre in Paris, France. Or this last massacre in San Bernadino. Or the massacre on Fort Hood by Major Hasan or the bombing in Boston,
Sorry, if I’m missing any of those rampant massacres by anyone other than the muslims and the leftists, please let me know.
Don’t get me wrong, I am a 2A supporter. Just offering some thoughts.
Regarding your request for examples of poor behavior by extreme 2A supporters, the only thing that comes immediately to my mind was a small number of open carry activists in Texas about a year ago trying to intimidate legislators (or at least that is how it looked to many). TTAG had articles about how that was counterproductive.
Regarding poor behavior of people calling themselves Christian, I am thinking mainly of excesses of the Crusades, religious wars in Europe several centuries ago, and so on. Yes that was mostly a while ago, but it did happen.
Other Tony. I broke out in out right laughter!!
All you could come up with was some second amendment activists that “might”have been “intimidating” some politicians, and some bad behavior from some Christians a couple of hundred years ago.
But you make my point.
ThomasR, fair point, I chose poor examples. For more recent examples of bad behavior in the United States by self declared 2nd amendment supporters, what about the couple that attacked police in the southwest while basically wrapping themselves in the Gadsden flag? And for people calling themselves Christians, what about some of the violent hate crimes apparently targeting Muslims or Jews or abortion doctors?
Other tony. You continue to prove my point. Did these “violen” acts towards muslims include being shot to death or having their heads chopped off? What did these “violent acts consist of? Spray painting epithets on the side of a building?
Obviously not. One example of that couple rapped in a Gadsden flag that killed a cop? Just one?
Where as my multpile examples of Devout Muslims emulating muhammads homicidal actions are just a very few in this country, let alone from around the world.
The point I’m making? Islam is one of the only major religions I’m aware of that are based on the actions and writings of a mass murdering religious psychopath. Normally, when a person strives to emulate a religious or spiritual teacher, it usually makes for a more peaceful person, like the Christ or the Buddah.
With Islam, when people attempt to emulate their spiritual teacher, the best you will get is a mass murdering religious psychopath.
Sorry, there is a sickness in this country when it comes to being able to say that some religions and some belief systems are incompatible with freedom and individual liberty and should be acknowledged as such.
Communism and all of it’s spawn, and Islam are two such systems of belief.
ThomasR, there are more examples out there if you look for them. A quick Google search yielded this: http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/10-worst-terror-attacks-extreme-christians-and-far-right-white-men
I hear your arguments about Islam but my perception is that most Muslims do not try to emulate Muhammad (violent Salafist Islamists are obviously a major and dangerous exception). By the way, I do think the world would be a better place if more people emulated Jesus’s teachings (regardless of whether they call themselves Christian).
Mainly I think that violent extremism and violent criminal acts are the real problem. We need to remember that there are violent extremists and criminals of many stripes, we can’t predict or prevent everything they try to do, and we need to be prepared in case they try. Probably more people in San Bernardino would be alive now if there had been some legal concealed carriers there.
Yeah where is Grindstone Red? And he called us nazi’s or faciststs…BTW it ‘s not idle speculation to ask “where’s the 3rd shooter”??? I have also known OK muslims-my kids former doctors and surgeon. And I had one treat me many years ago. Then again I got no idea what goes on behind closed doors(or mosques)…Gun rights will be HUGE in the next election-much like last year when it propelled so many repubs to the senate/congress…
Did Grindstone leave us? I kept waiting for his post on how this what probably those dastardly Christians from the south Pacific.
I miss his comments too because he was one of the few people who seemed to be able to think logically and not paint with the same type of broad brush the antis love to do to us.
Makes you wonder if all of these so called terrorist shenanigans would have happened without the gulf wars? I mean, what was the incidence of this sort of thing pre 91, the 1st trade center attack, 9/11 and so on. Did ISIS exist before WMD baloney? I know if some despot invaded to get after my dictator and the BDA included my family, I’m coming for ya, or the shitbag citizenry that didn’t stop it, make no odds to a man raddicalized by his dead family.
The government is always scarier than the terrorists themselves. Can’t imagine what kind of infringements are coming at us if things go on like this forever
No kidding. That’s the far more troubling aspect. Brace yourselves for another AWB, ammo, and mag restrictions.
I bet the 3rd suspect was really Cat Stevens.
Nick, you did fine until you decided to pontificate. Specifically:
“There do not appear to be any groups specifically claiming responsibility at this time which indicates that this may simply be a “lone wolf” attack based on the same ideology instead of a coordinated attack directed from overseas. This would seem to contradict President Obama’s protestations that America is safe from a Paris style attack, and the patent illegality of the firearms used (according to California state law) seems to support the idea that stricter gun control laws would have had no impact on stopping this latest terrorist attack.”
1. Paris was not a lone wolf attack. Rather, it was carefully planned and executed from overseas and imported terrorists. Therefore your first two sentences contradict each other. No one can make us safe from “home grown” terrorism, no matter how many guns are seized or ARs banned. But imported terrorism is a different animal.
2. ARs are not “patently illegal” in California. In fact, both companies sell firearms here, the only restrictions being 10 round mags and California Bullet Buttons. If they had 30 round mags (easily purchased in Nevada or Arizona), those would have been illegally imported, and removal of the bullet button would also be illegal–but then again, there are magnetically attachable “tools” that make mag swaps just as fast as a gun without the bullet button (the only illegality is leaving the device attached to the firearm after a mag swap).
Two shooters , by definition , cannot be ‘ LONE WOLF ‘ .
Maybe ,’ almost alone wolves ‘.
This really is some pretty bizarre behavior: A woman with a six month old daughter, convincing her husband to join her on a suicidal rampage…. And in San Bernandino, out of all places.
Would be interesting to learn where in Pakistan she hails from, and how the couple met. If she’s from up north, she may be avenging something more personal than a belief in some abstract cause. If she’s a Muslim “Mail Order Virgin”, I’d be willing to bet whoever “hooked her up”, had her taught and primed beforehand, and has placed similar minded Virgins all over the West.
In many Western countries, many young Muslim men prefer brides from their ancestral country, or at least from a more properly Muslim society; as those girls’ provenance is considered more trust worthy, and they are less likely to be tainted by their host nation’s trashy mores. This could be a wide open highway by which jihadis could place operatives in Western countries. Particularly since the progressive idiots ruling the roost over here, have blinders big enough to believe Muslim women are universally “oppressed”, and would like nothing more than to leave their “oppressive” backgrounds and become wards of some progressive state.
I’m just speculating, and I’m far from a trained FBI profiler; but women with 6 month old daughters, generally don’t behave like this, no matter their supposed “ideology.” Young, childless Burka Bombers are fairly common, but once they’re mothers, their priorities change to those of any other mother, whether Christian or Grizzly Bear.
“This really is some pretty bizarre behavior: A woman with a six month old daughter, convincing her husband to join her on a suicidal rampage…. And in San Bernandino, out of all places.”
We have to be very careful not to project our own emotional ideas about family connections onto others.
Contemporary anthropological research shows that of the primates, human females actually have the weakest mother-child bond.
There are MANY cases documented where a mother outright murdered her own child, from days-old up to teens. There’s nothing THAT far outside a standard deviation or so of normal here.
We really should rationally consider possibilities, none of which are unproven by the data available at the moment:
* The child could have been part of their cover.
* The child may not even be theirs/hers.
* The child could have been an “accident” and therefore not really bonded with.
* The child was female, so…what are the radical Muslim views on females?
We don’t know she was a “mother” in the sense we think of “mother.”
In many Western countries, many young Muslim men prefer brides from their ancestral country, or at least from a more properly Muslim society;
It has been documented that Muslim men have been entering American colleges, wooing starry eyed coeds and marrying them here AND getting them to convert to Islam in the process. At least some of this could be part of “infiltration” and “breeding.”
If the Muslim man is a jihadi and his “mission” is to marry an infidel as his way to serve the cause, I figure he’d probably do so. He might figure marrying a “pretty young thang” who has been brainmushed into believing all kinds of crap is a better mission than strapping on a bomb vest.
“I’m just speculating, and I’m far from a trained FBI profiler; but women with 6 month old daughters, generally don’t behave like this,”
Maybe women with six month old daughters don’t generally behave like this, it’s not unheard of. Again, we have to guard against our own projection. Woman all over the world (various faiths and cultures) commit atrocities against their own children regularly enough, so her “abandonment” in this case is tame by comparison.
“once they’re mothers, their priorities change to those of any other mother, whether Christian or Grizzly Bear.”
Nope. This may be the majority of times a woman has a child, but not always. Some women hate their own children and hate being a mother. I’m not saying that “state” is normal, but it’s not so unheard of so as to be shocked by this behavior in this case.
I guess I don’t know that the mother was part of the initial shooting. But, it seems pretty clear from that facts as reported that she DID pick of a rifle and engage in a shoot-out with the cops. If those facts are reported correctly, and if she really is the mother of that child, it happened.
All that said, as for “FBI profiler,” there are some serious issues to consider … “profiling,” while useful, is nothing even remotely like an “exact science.” It’s often just a guide, and there are cases where profiles have been outright wrong.
The problem with “profiling” of any sort (formally trained psychologists or armchair Internet folks) is that it can close our mind to seeing facts. Real people are not “profiles.” The “exactness” of profiling only exists on TV where a script can guarantee the “UnSub” matches the profile.
So, even if we accept that “Mothers” don’t normally act this way, it really doesn’t matter if THIS mother acted this way. She may not fit a profile of who commits crimes like this. This simply means profile was too rigidly drawn. At the end of the day, all that means is the nature of profiling these cases is what needs to change. That’s how science works; new data = modified theory. NOT new data = challenge the data if it doesn’t fit the current theory.
In other words, if the facts are as reported and if she is the mother of that child, what this means is that we cannot “ignore” mothers of young children as possible suspects because they don’t fit yesterday’s profile format.
“So, even if we accept that “Mothers” don’t normally act this way, it really doesn’t matter if THIS mother acted this way.”
Which is why I suspect she may not have just happened to become a Jihadi semi randomly, but was so before ever entering into marriage and motherhood. And that she may be just the tip of an expanding iceberg.
The cases you speak of of women “hating” their children etc. are, first, rare; and second, very different than this. This is not hate or any weird psychological condition, but mainly a woman so dedicated to her mission that she seemingly forgets about the kid. After having lived in the US for 2 years, long enough to have had any completely ridiculous caricature image of evil Americans corrected by first hand observation. If she’s from a Northern Pakistani village and watched her whole family reduced to flying, burning bodyparts by an American drone strike… fine, understood. Also, if she’s been training for this for years prior to placement, and have dedicated her life to it and nothing else; again, understood. But aside from something like one of the above, I just don’t see it.
To all the dopes who are fearmongering about Dearborn, it’s all nonsense. I’ve never been bothered EVER by a Muslim there, I’ve never been hassled or anything by a Muslim or Dearborn PD for open carry either.
I’ve never been harassed at a hookah lounge or cigar bar in Dearborn.
Just because some village idiot shows up at a council meeting asking for Sharia law doesn’t mean anything. We have no shortage of idiot gun owners being irresponsible.
Once again, many TTAG readers only care about THEIR rights, and not much else in the constitution.
Said Jared the French progressive revisionist about the ‘no go zones ‘ in Paris .
Some people are just not ready for the modern world.
They like the tools of the 21st century but have a mind set in the 7th or 8 th century.
No muslim should be allowed into the west.
Ah yes. The Religion of Pieces.
Cant wait until we import another 150K from Syria.
How long will this be called “work place violence” by the ReliablePartyOrgans?
NYT “1. Investigators said they were not ready to call the mass shooting in San Bernardino a terrorist attack”,
CNN guest: FBI expert says “clearly not ‘climate change’ related”
Read more: http://www.bizpacreview.com/2015/12/03/fbi-expert-on-cnn-mocks-obama-while-covering-shootings-clearly-not-climate-change-related-280666#ixzz3tKoVcnbc
WAPO: still with the Narrative “Motive Elusive”
Watching the coverage of this event was disheartening, if I had a dime for everytime the “scary scary anti-gun buzzwords” of tactical-type, long guns, assault style rifles, high capacity magazines, clips, etc was another example of using these heinous crimes as springboards for drumming up support for yet more navel gazing gun laws here in california.
The first press conference following this was bizarre as the amount of ammo figures were puzzled over and asked about to a morbid degree in my opinion, I wanted to throw my shoes at the screen as I yelled, “terrorists use a shyt load of ammo you fhks!!!”
This event, past events, and future events are merely solidifying the anti-gun pov of too many in my state and in too many other states, the rhetoric has now shifted to, “well they can get those things from other states” so we need universal gun laws to stop these things from happening which must make people who really believe that immune from having their heads up their asses.
Two years left and I am leaving to a free state and leaving my politics here and changing parties.
More truth tonic against idiots at the StateRunMedia:
“… the picture that is starting to emerge appears to be one of a pre-planned terrorist attack perpetrated by a “radicalized” couple . . .”
BS. Islam is as islam does.
“Born and raised a Muslim,”
Koran COMMANDS conversion, submission or death of kuffars. Read it, or STHU.
” his history didn’t immediately raise any red flags with his friends and family but his relationship with his wife appears to have changed all that.”
a/ HE WENT TO KORANUSLAND to find and marry a a bride, he was alreayd looking for compatible jihadi nookie.
“The portrait that investigators are painting is one of an increasing “radicalization” of the couple. The common speculation is that Tashfeen greatly influenced Syed’s behavior and caused him to be increasingly radicalized.”
So the johadi nookie did him in? MAKE UP YOUR MIND.
” Government officials state that Syed had been in contact with people who were known or suspected terrorists in recent years,”
BEFORE HE GOT MARRIED.
“and may have been in direct contact with overseas terrorists during his 2014 trip to Saudi Arabia…” WHERE HE GOT HIS JIHAD BRIDE.
Hey man, get it together.
Its the JIHAD, genius.
Or pay a tax and remain Christian, Jewish, or whatever religion.
I makes specific mention that even ISIL applies it in some places.
Even though ISIS/ISIL usually just kills the nonbelievers, you somehow see this “tax” for not believing to be acceptable? Really?
Interesting take on her name, if true.
This visit, unlike what CAIR claims is recent. And the reason no one can locate her origin is most likely that her name is not really “Tashfeen Malik”. No one is able to find any female named “Tashfeen Malik”. The name is very unusual for a woman and there is no record of any Tashfeen Malik in the U.S. or even abroad in Arabic.Tashfeen Malik (King) is a nom de guerre for a Muslim Jihadist from the annals of Muslim history. As he is known to Muslims “تاشفين ملك الموحدين” Tashfeen Malik Al-Muahideen, in English: Tafhseen King of the Unitarians (Muslims) and the conquerer of the west. The history stems from when Yusuf ibn Tashfin led the Muslim forces in the Battle of Zallaqa/Sagrajas. He came to Andalusia from Morocco to help the Muslims fight against Alfonso VI, eventually achieving victory and allowing the Muslims to remain in Spain for centuries. The battle has been symbolic for Muslim victory against the Christians.
If only there was a way we could screen out radical termites (both local and foreign born). It’s only a small minority that actually eat the wood in our homes. There’s no reason why inviting termites into our homes should be halted. We just need to improve the vetting process. Besides, the termites win if we don’t accept them.
I still havnt seen a picture of the lucky bride.Just that Black silhouette they put up when they don’t want to offend Muslims..
“The fact that they did not use all of their weapons at the event indicate that the attack may have been thrown together at the last moment rather than carefully planned.”
Or they may have been planning more attacks. They did, after all, escape in their SUV rather easily after the initial attack.
Bad Baptist part of the Radical Right-Wing Conspiracy.
So what we know is that Deash isn’t just somebody else’s problem, which we knew already. We also get to see on our own soil that ISIS doesn’t care who gets in the way; two of the people hit by the attackers were Muslims. Castigating innocents Muslims won’t help stop ISIS; that’s why they want, because it proves their righteousness as THE place for Muslims. If we rebuff refugees, if we turn on our own, they win. The refugees contain many people ISIS desperately needs to function as a state — doctors, administrators, engineers, technicians, and so on. The migrants represent such a major brain drain that ISIS is praying for them to be sent back. ISIS also needs the tax base, which they are losing rapidly due to people running away from them as fast as possible, which it could regain if people instead ran to them. ISIS needs to be fought on two levels. The first is military — go after them without mercy. The second is societal. By not condemning the good and bad Muslims together, and by accepting the refugees, we deny them their righteous stance and deny them the ability to remain viable and function. Americans, we are a nation of immigrants; by taking in those who are in need, we make them ours and we can capitalize on what our enemies waste.
Thank you, Nick, for so BRAVELY being at the “helm” of TTAG and its coverage. Did you fly to the crime scene? Did you interview forensics experts and FBI agents? I’ve never seen a hack blogger suck his own d&^% so publicly before. Yuck.