Slidefire bump stock
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As bump stocks go before the Supreme Court this week, ABC News interviewed Jeremiah Cottle, the creator of the bump stock to get his thoughts on the battle over his invention. Cottle, a decorated military veteran and father of four, originally conceived of the bump stock while recovering from a brain injury sustained serving his country.


The original bump stock, designed in 2009, was made up of a piece of wood, PVC pipe and duct tape. The device, as most readers of TTAG well know, uses a semi-automatic rifle’s recoil to fire rounds more rapidly and more smoothly than a single finger squeeze for each round.

“I wanted to create a way that people could go out, shoot their gun safely and have fun and shoot as fast as you want to be able,” Cottle told ABC News.

When Cottle, who was born in West Texas but now lives in Tennessee, where in addition to being father of the bump stock he is also a cattle rancher, designed the device, he received ATF approval. ATF at the time ruled the bump stock did not circumvent the National Firearm Act (NFA) and turn a semi-auto firearm into a regulated full-auto weapon and for eight years, they adhered to that decision.

In that time, Cottle sold his first 500 bump stocks in just four days and more than 20,000 in his first year. Cottle, who was on food stamps at the time he invented the bump stock, became a millionaire virtually overnight. His business, Slide Fire Solutions, Inc. eventually employed as many as 40 people, including his grandparents.

“It’s absolutely a Cinderella story,” Cottle told ABC News. “You take an individual with an idea—something that they believe others will enjoy—you put it out there, and it’s unbelievably welcomed.” And it was. When the invention first hit the market, it was the talk among gun enthusiasts.

And everything was fine for eight years.

But in October 2017, the deadliest mass shooting in American history was carried out in Las Vegas, Nevada, when a gunman, firing from the window of a room in Mandalay Bay hotel and casino, killed more than 60 people and wounded over 500, attending a country music festival below. That gunman used several firearms outfitted with bump stocks.

All of a sudden, the bump stock became the villain and even then-president Donald Trump and the NRA suggested limits needed to be put on the device. In response, the ATF did an about-face and reclassified the devices and “ordered that the more than 700,000 already created must be surrendered or destroyed.”

Enter Michael Cargill, an Army veteran and owner of Central Texas Gun Works near Austin, Texas. Cargill, who was also interviewed in the ABC piece, told them he emptied his store shelves of bump stocks and surrendered the two that he owned as well. But he also sued the ATF claiming the agency had no legal right to ban the items and overstepped their authority.

“This is a product that I legally purchased and had it in the store,” Cargill told ABC News, “and all of a sudden an agency within the federal government decided they’re going to ban this particular product. I said, ‘This is crazy, this is not the America that I know. We’ve got to do something about this.’”

“An agency within the federal government can’t come out and actually turn millions of people into felons overnight or ban a product,” Cargill said in the interview. “We have to go to Congress to do that.”

And now Cargill v. Garland sits before our Supreme Court justices to decide.

In the interview, when ABC News reporter Devin Dwyer suggests to Cottle, “your critics say that is violating the spirit of the law and that even though that may not technically be a machine gun it certainly does look like one.”

Cottle simply replies, “Well it sounds like Congress needs to rewrite the definition of a machine gun doesn’t it. It’s not making stuff up on a whim.”

For all the criticism main stream media receives on covering gun issues, this was as balanced a report as gun owners and America can probably expect from any of the big networks. It certainly isn’t an “F,” but it’s still pretty far from an “A” as well though they did at least treat Cottle fairly and give him his say without badgering the hell out of him or trying to make him look stupid.



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  1. I can put just as much lead in the air with a 12 gauge shotgun loaded with buckshot. Of course the founding fathers were very familiar with a blunderbuss which could put enough lead in the air to take out an entire platoon with one shot.

    • Ever see a ca 1800’s ‘watermelon gun’?

      8 or 10 ga spring-loaded smoothie mounted about 1′ off the ground, with 8 trip wires. Gun swivels and fires down a disturbed wire.

      Very scary…

  2. I bet he’s saying, or at least thinking, “Oh, sh**!!”

    If it were my case being argued before a high court, I’d be as nervous as a long-tailed cat in a room fulla rockin’ chairs!

  3. Bump stocks should not be illegal, but after shooting a friend’s AR with one I could only ask, “Why? Damn thing is silly.”

    • Exactly! It’s a gimmicky impractical novelty. That’s why Trump thought it would be OK to sacrifice it…which was a strategic mistake.

      • I don’t think Trump thought anything about it. He’s not really a gun guy. Maybe someone told him nobody would care.

        Either way, it was a capitulation that he never should have made. It isn’t logically sound and it only gave the gun control movement another inch.

        • Trump is a NY person. 100% behind the NFA.
          Bump STOCKS DO NOT MEET THE definition of MG in the NFA. MG owners like the NFA.

          You have entered an incorrect email address!
          FIX YOUR SHIT

    • Under the Obama/Biden administration, bump stocks were not illegal.

      “And everything was fine for eight years.“

      Even Donald Trump admitted Barack Hussein Obama legalized bump stocks for Americans… Right before Donald Trump issued an executive order to ban bump stocks:

      “Donald J. Trump

      Obama Administration legalized bump stocks. BAD IDEA. As I promised, today the Department of Justice will issue the rule banning BUMP STOCKS with a mandated comment period. We will BAN all devices that turn legal weapons into illegal machine guns.
      4:50 PM · Mar 23, 2018“

      Help me remember, did Trump ban bump stocks before or after he said “We should just take the guns first, and worry about due process later”?

      I understand why Donald Trump loves the poorly educated, they are so easily deceived.

      • I can’t remember. Was it before or after he said “I’d like to think about it. I mean nobody’s talking about silencers very much. I did talk about the bump stock and we had it banned and we’re looking at that. I’m going to seriously look at it. I don’t love the idea of it”.

      • It’s ok. You Miner49er and the rest of the “gun community”, have never supported the widespread spread ownership, of machine guns in the general population.

      • COOL STORY, BRO!!! Now tell us about the Lyin’ Hawaiian and his idiot, senile meat-puppet, Slow Joe (Xiao Bai-din), and their constant, idiot, ignorant statements about “Assault Weapon Bans”!!!

        I’ve long known the truth of the old saw, “Scratch a Leftist; find a fascist”, and you continue to prove it on the daily. What I am becoming more cognizant of is Murphy’s Corollary to that, “All liars are not necessarily Leftists, but ALL Leftists are liars!”

        Nice chat, moron. Go back to your circle jerk.

        • “Go back to your circle jerk”

          No thank you, you can keep your creepy same sex activities to yourself and whatever farm animals you may care to abuse.

          All the same sex erotic insults, some of your people are downright weird.

        • MajorLiar,

          You could just admit you have no idea what a circle jerk is; we’d understand (we assumed you were just an incel, not an eunuch). Please, feel free to continue embarrassing yourself on this forum! While it akin to kicking puppies in terms of imbalance of power and ability, it is still immense fun to point at you, mock your idiocy, and laugh uproariously. You prove EVERY stereotype about idiot Leftist/fascists true, every time you post. And you’re more fun to mock than dacian the demented, because his useless public education appears to have been even more pathetic than yours. You were at least given SOME familiarity with the English language (unfortunately not with logic, rationality, economics, or science, but one can’t have everything) – dacian writes his drivel like a dyslexic, illiterate, retard.

        • “You could just admit you have no idea what a circle jerk is; we’d understand“

          I am more than willing to gain the benefit of your experience with circle jerks, I myself have never enjoyed such a thing so I am willing to hear more from you about your times circle jerking.

          Tell us Lamprey, exactly how does one circle jerk?

        • Well, MajorMistake, two comments:

          1. You have previously made comments, in response to similar imprecations, about “homoerotic” comments, so apparently know SOMETHING about the subject (or think you do), and

          2. dacian and jsled both say you’re the acknowledged master of the regular afternoon circle jerk y’all have.

    • bumpstocks are just a fun range toy. they are not machine guns and the BATFE supplied an official letter of their specific findins as such. The lying media vermin simply ignore that as part of their propaganda.

  4. Either government fucked up approving them or government fucked up banning them.

    Ether way government is a complete fuck up and should be treated as such.

  5. I truly believe if the justices see a video of Jerry Micklec firing his revolver would put to rest any justification of banning any semi automatic weapon with or without a bump stock.

  6. Fortunately an EO is less trouble to undo than an act of congress. Knee jerk stampedes to ban firearms owned by millions following the criminal misuse of a firearm is as insane as it sounds. That is one of the reasons America needs to know the Gun Control they run to for safety is Rooted in Racism and Genocide. For sane people a historical glimpse of Gun Control is motivation enough to focus on Criminal Misuse, not only of firearms but bricks, bats, knives, fists, feet, vehicles, etc.

    For the naysayers who bark at the one thing that entirely discredits Gun Control they need to solve the mystery why the public’s reaction at the sight of a Noose is not the same towards Gun Control when History Confirms Gun Control, nooses and lynch mobs walk hand in hand. Could it be the public is simply Gun Control History illiterate? I think so. I know so.

    • “Donald J. Trump

      Obama Administration legalized bump stocks. BAD IDEA. As I promised, today the Department of Justice will issue the rule banning BUMP STOCKS with a mandated comment period. We will BAN all devices that turn legal weapons into illegal machine guns.
      4:50 PM · Mar 23, 2018“

      • So?

        Why is it that you think every time you post something ‘Trump’ that it means everyone is MAGA or even cares like we are stupid and don’t understand he might have done something bad and are blinded to it, and for some reason need you to let us know?

        The reality is that even Trump supporters recognize Trump may have done something bad. Its not about what Trump does that’s bad or not, its about the leadership for the country to ensure our our country and constitution survives –

        which is something that Biden IS FOR A FACT NOT DOING AND IS FOR A FACT A TYPE OF TYRANT THE FOUNDERS OF THE COUNTRY WARNED AGAINST AND WROTE THE CONSTITUTION TO STOP. But for some reason, despite it being obvious you ignore it and prefer your childish mental heath obsession with Trump thinking it means something.

        Take your mental health ill obsession with Trump someplace else.

        You’re an idiot.

        • .40 cal,

          Since the nick “MajorLiar” is become SO obviously true, I have been playing with the idea of changing it to “MajorIdiot”, so I heartily endorse your last sentence!

      • You strike me as someone who believes that, in order to support someone in office, you have to be absolutely uncritical of that person — that you cannot disagree one iota from their policies — and that if you do, you don’t really support that person.

        What’s worse, I sincerely doubt you care about the issue at all, except when it comes to getting guns out of the hands of as many people as possible. The only reason you’re bringing up Trump, is because you want to use it as a bludgeon, to try to force people to your side, using the “logic” that an individual who supports someone in office has to support all their policies.

        Well, it’s not working. Too many of us consider even our allies to be fallible, and realize they are going to advocate for things we disagree with — because we’re all human.

        And personally, I find it creepy that you expect absolute loyalty to your chosen political figures, and are weirded out when other people don’t do what you do.

        • “The only reason you’re bringing up Trump, is because you want to use it as a bludgeon“

          So like, you didn’t notice that this article is about Donald Trump’s ban on bump stocks?

          How could you make a relevant comment on this article without mentioning Donald Trump?

          It seems much more likely that you resent folks pointing out that Donald Trump is the one who unlawfully banned bump stocks, after the Obama/Biden administration had acknowledged their legality.

          Isn’t that what some would call intellectual dishonesty?

        • Now you’re arguing I’m supposed to be in favor of banning bump stocks because Obama approved them?

          Here’s the problem we’re running into: I do not trust any politician. I am not going to knee-jerk support or oppose something just because some politician was for or against that. I can think independently, and I can support someone politically even though I cannot fully trust that person.

          Now, here’s the big question: do you support bump stocks, or do you oppose them? Are you really expecting us to believe you despise the bump stock ban because President Trump initiated the ban, but President Obama approved them in the first place?

          Somehow I don’t believe you’re accepting of the very kool-aid you are trying to force down our throats.

      • bumpstocks are just a fun range toy. they are not machine guns and the BATFE supplied an official letter of their specific findins as such. The lying media vermin simply ignore that as part of their propaganda.

    • Yep, most deadly mass shooting driven by orders from the Christian’s religionist sky daddy.

      “The Mormon attackers concluded that the emigrants had figured out their ruse—and feared that word of their participation would hasten an assault by the Army. It was then that militia commander William H. Dame ordered his men to leave no witnesses. The emigrants were to be “decoyed out and destroyed with the exception of the small children,” who were “too young to tell tales,” according to another militia commander, Major John H. Higbee, who relayed the orders to Lee.“

      More of that ‘kill them all and let god sort them out’ mentality held by many religionistas, at least they didn’t kill the small children, just stole them in a violent act of child trafficking.

      History proves there’s no hate like Christian love

        • Hitler, yes.

          “My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. …Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. …
          – Adolf Hitler, speech on April 12, 1922“

          Why do you think Hitler killed 6 million Jews? He made the reason clear, his Catholic teachings for the past 2000 years blamed the Jews for the death of Jesus Christ.

        • MajorLiar,

          Once again, you trot out both your EXTREMELY ignorant bigotry against Christians, right alongside your abject historical ignorance. I am impressed; a “moron self-identifies” two-fer. Thanks for the gift!

          Now, go do a little research about Hitler’s views (and public statements) about Christianity ca. the early 40’s. Knowing how inept you are at ACTUAL research, I expect this to take you a while, so we certainly won’t hold our breath waiting. Oh, and while you’re at it, why don’t you do a little research on, oh, say . . . Chechen Muslim separatists? Or maybe Stalin and Mao, who were both avowedly atheist? Pol Pot ring any bells with your historically-ignorant @$$?????????

          “Show us on the doll, little kid, where the bad Christian hurt you!” Go fornicate yourself, you anti-Christian, lying bigot (See? I am following the teachings of my religion, by wishing you, DESPITE your bigoted hatred for (and ignorance of) me and mine by wishing you a good time!!)

          You are becoming too pathetic to mock, even. But I’ll rise to the challenge, since mockery is the ONLY way to deal with lying, Leftist/fascist idiots like you. Have a blessed day, bigot!!

        • How about that Christian love for the Jews of Europe?

          “In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. …Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. …
          – Adolf Hitler, speech on April 12, 1922“

        • Wow, MajorLiar, you’re really determined to make meat paste out of that dead horse, aren’t you???

          Point the first: Hitler self-identified as a Christian in the early 20s. What were his PUBLICLY-STATED views in, oh, let’s say 1942?? Any idea, you lying sh*tweasel????? Nah, didn’t think so.

          Point the second, even in your own (cherry-picked) Hitler quote, Hitler references the Biblical story of “Jesus driving the money-lenders from the Temple”. Now, I KNOW an anti-Christian bigot (and known historical ignoranus) like you would have NO knowledge of that actual story (or the differing versions of it, depending on the translations you use), but let me assure you that not ONE single version of that Biblical story refers to driving Jews out of the Temple, or even references them as BEING Jews . . . but you are too stupid and bigoted to know that.

          Jesus WAS a Jew, you ignorant @$$clown!!! And remained a Jew throughout his life, as he frequently mentions in the New Testament. But you’re too stupid/bigoted to know either of those facts, aren’t you??

          And, yes, there were instances of Christian anti-semitism (oh, and go research the definition of “semite”, you @$$clown). COOL STORY, BRO!!! Now go do “Muslim anti-semitism”.

          I know I’m supposed to “hate the sin, but love the sinner”, but, being a mere flawed human, I fall short of Jesus’ goal for me . . . I increasingly DESPISE lying, Leftist/fascist bigoted @$$clowns.

        • “Hitler self-identified as a Christian“

          As does every Christian member of the 30,000 Christian denominations on the planet.

          Who are you to judge another of gods children, wasn’t there something about judge not, lest ye be judged?

          “I know I’m supposed to “hate the sin, but love the sinner”

          If you think that’s in the Bible, you’re no Christian.

          I think it’s interesting that you’re quoting a holy man of the Hindu religion, how ironic.

        • Poor comeback, MajorMistake, and you TOTALLY ignored the entire point of my comment, which was that, HOWEVER Hitler might have identified, ca. the 1920s, he CLEARLY and PUBLICLY identified as NOT a Christian while performing his most heinous acts. Whatever Hitler was, or wasn’t, in 1922, he neither claimed to be a Christian, nor acted like one, in the 40s. Do try to keep up, child.

          As for your closing sentence, while I am amused, I am not even slightly surprised that an ignorant, anti-Christian bigot, such as yourself, would be so mind-blind and bigoted that they would be surprised that a Christian was knowledgeable about the sacred texts of other religions. But that’s because the world, seen through your bigoted eyes and interpreted by your tiny little mind, is a sad and sorry place.

          MOST educated religious folks of my acquaintance are quite familiar with the sacred texts of several religions. I myself (and I don’t count myself as a religious scholar) have read the Quran (two different translations: I don’t read Arabic) and the Hadiths, the Book of Mormon, the Bhagavad-Gita, the Vedas, and the Upanishads, the Analects of Confucius, and quite a few of the sutras. Enough to know, unlike you, that there are frequent recurring “lessons” that appear in MOST major religions and their sacred texts.

          I am quite aware that “hate the sin, but love the sinner” is not a quote from the Bible (nor, to my knowledge, does it appear in any of the Hindu sacred texts I have read). That it may have been stated, at some point, by some Hindu holy man surprises me only slightly (the Hindus have a much different definition of, and approach to, sin than do Christians – Hindu deities frequently did things a mink breeder wouldn’t tolerate).

          I know it would stretch your tiny little mind beyond the breaking point, but if you want to continue your loud, public, anti-Christian bigotry and NOT make a complete @$$ of yourself every time, it would behoove you to become familiar with the Bible (of course), but also basic Christian doctrine, and the differences between doctrine, dogma, Holy Scripture, and Christian Apologetics (all quite different in their approach). But, again, you are FAR to stupid, bigoted, ignorant, and small-minded to accomplish such a feat.

          Have a nice day, loser!

        • “That it may have been stated, at some point, by some Hindu holy man surprises me only slightly“

          Sad, you still don’t recognize whose words you stole.

          If you’d done any study of the Hindu faith and their revered figures, you would know those are Mahatma Gandhi’s words.

          “Hindu deities frequently did things a mink breeder wouldn’t tolerate).”

          Hilarious, watching you casually slander other peoples faith while ignoring the timber in your own eye.

          Tell me, did any of those Hindu deities do as Abraham did, and father children with his sister?

          Did any of those Hindu deities ‘marry’ a nine year old girl as Mohamet did?

        • MajorMistake,

          Another swing and a miss, MajorMistake. First of all, @$$clown, yes, various Hindu dieties “did things a mink breeder wouldn’t tolerate”, at various times. And I already mentioned, repeatedly, the fact that Mohammed was a child rapist and a pedophile. And I am more than aware of Abraham.

          Once again, your abject ignorance, bigotry, and overweening arrogance has led you astray. Whether some Hindu “holy man” (in that context, you might want to consider what the definition of “holy man” is in respect of the “Hindu religion” (which doesn’t exist as a single religion, FYI – there are many types of “Hindu” religions, and some differ quite dramatically (even up to somewhat different pantheons). Again, whether some “Hindu holy man” (again, definition, please) might have said something like that is quite irrelevant – I assure you that phrase is quite common in Christianity (and several other religions I am familiar with). As I tried to explain to your ignorant @$$, MANY major themes and lessons are found in MANY different religions around the world. You might investigate, if you had any desire to assuage your bitter, bigoted ignorance, the number of religions around the world that have “flood” stories. And then, if you REALLY wanted to ameliorate your ignorance, you might inquire into modern discoveries and theories in re: what the probable basis for those theories likely was.

          You want to debate comparative religions, clown, I’ll school you like a redheaded stepchild (Hell, I can do THAT without even having to get outside Christianity! Your ignorance of Christianity is near total).

          So, to be frank, I don’t GIVE A DAMN if some Hindu “holy man” once said something like that. That concept, and belief, has been around since Jesus still lived. Ever hear of “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone?”, you complete @$$clown.

          Whenever you get on your “Christian” kick, you know what you sound like? You sound like a 1870s Southern KKK redneck talking about the “n*ggers” – and JUST as ignorant and stupid. But, of course, to an idiot like YOU, prejudice against blacks is completely heinous, but being an ignorant, unschooled, bigoted fool about Christians is all just find and dandy.

          As I’ve suggested before, why don’t you go suck-start a shotgun, you bigoted, ignorant pr*ck.

        • “And I am more than aware of Abraham.“

          So you do acknowledge that the father of both Judaism and Islam, fathered children with his own sister.

          You do realize, these Hindu deities you accuse of deviant behavior are imaginary and none of that shit really happened.

          But you draw an equivalence to Father Abraham, who was a real person who actually fucked his sister and fathered children.

          I’m sorry to be so direct, but it seems necessary to overcome your obtuse resistance to reality.

          “why don’t you go suck-start a shotgun, you bigoted, ignorant pr*ck“

          How Christian of you, just where in whatever holy book you live by, does it teach the faithful should encourage others to commit suicide?

        • MajorLiar,

          “You do realize, these Hindu deities you accuse of deviant behavior are imaginary and none of that shit really happened.”

          Coupled with another MajorLiar classic, “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.”, that leads me to ask the simple question: “How do you know? PROVE IT.”

          And how DARE you insult the sincere religious beliefs of hundreds of millions, in India and elsewhere? You are a complete clusterf*ck of conflicting/inconsistent arguments and themes, MajorMistake. Tell us again how there is “no evidence” of Biden corruption, but it is a proven fact that Trump engaged in “insurrection”, you lying sh*tweasel.

      • I’m kindof impressed, in an odd sort of way. Your quote actually provides a little context for that particular massacre.

        As horrible as it was, it was committed by a people who (1) had been driven from place to place to finally settle in a wilderness they figured no one would want, so they could be left alone in peace, (2) yet despite this, the Federal Government decided to send an army out against them, for “observational” purposes.

        I’d like to believe that, had I found myself in similar circumstances, I would have been among those who raised their voices and said “this isn’t right!” (which, incidentally, a few people did, even though they weren’t strong enough to prevent the bloody outcome) … but, knowing human nature, I would be foolish to believe I would have such moral courage, when the time came … and let’s face it, there’s a real possibility that I would have been among the voices who called for the act of violence.

        Now, you can sit here, decades later, morally condemning those who were involved in the massacre, completely divorced from the circumstances they were in, but let’s not fool ourselves: neither you nor I know what we would have chosen, had we been placed in similar circumstances — and we could not know, unless we are in those circumstances.

        I only pray that if I am in such a circumstance, I would have the wisdom to recognize the right course of action, and have the courage to do it!

        • “a people who (1) had been driven from place to place”

          So why had they been driven from place to place? Because they were charlatans who preyed on their neighbors, practiced polygamy, and used the doctrine of ‘blood atonement’ as justification.

          They escaped to the wilderness of Utah for the same reason Mitt Romney’s family fled to the Sonoran Desert, the same reason Ervil LeBaron set up Colonias in Mexico.

          To escape Justice.

          To this day the polygamists will assemble households full of young women with children, commit welfare fraud, receiving checks because they swear the father is ‘unknown’.
          When it heats up on the US side, they flit back across the border until things cool off.
          It’s called ‘bleeding the beast’, just ask Warren Jeffs.

        • Well, MajorMistake, I have to give you this – you are apparently an equal opportunity bigot as to religions. Do you need help (what am I even saying? OF COURSE you “need help”, that much is obvious to even the most casual observer) with your bigotry?? Mohammed was a child rapist and a pedophile (says so, right there in the Quran, bold as you please). I won’t even discuss the carryings-on of the Hindu pantheon (this is a public forum; hardly the place for such a discussion).

          So, I guess I have to acknowledge (assuming you are willing to admit that Mohammed was a child rapist and pedophile, and for his much more limited period of influence, his followers have certainly racked up the score on heinous actions against innocents) that you are an equal opportunity bigot (and, apparently, EQUALLY ignorant about ALL the religions you are bigoted about).

          A real piece o’ work, aintcha, MajorMistake?

        • “So why had they been driven from place to place? Because they were charlatans who preyed on their neighbors, practiced polygamy, and used the doctrine of ‘blood atonement’ as justification…To escape Justice.”

          Last I checked, polygamy was legal at the time, they didn’t prey upon their neighbors, and they didn’t use the “doctrine” of blood atonement for justifications of “injustice”.

          Look, I know you’re disappointed that the KKK and their lynch mobs no longer have the power to lynch people you consider “unjust” — but the rest of us are glad we’ve rejected that “justice”, and attempt to live under a government that isn’t driven by mob rule, vigilantism, and outright greed (because the mob rulers weren’t as interested in “justice” as you make them out to be).

      • Rubbish. Most mass shootongs are by tranniys whose manifestos specifically target Christians, Whites and Heterosexuals. Tranniy hatred and Liberal Psychosis’s are being carried out every day.. Media vermin intentionally fail to report that GACT.

        • “Most mass shootongs are by tranniys”

          40 ounce says that’s not true, he has even chastised me for suggesting otherwise:

          “.40 cal Booger
          February 18, 2024 At 08:32
          I never said at anytime that “that all mass shooters are liberal Democrats”.
          You lie once again Miner49er.
          and learn what context means and stop cherry picking out of context. This is what I posted:
          “Trivia fact for mass shooters: The majority of mass-shooters (which includes school shooters), over 90%, have no political affiliation or preference of either left or right wing.”

          There you have it, the Oracle has spoken.

      • FYI. Mormonism is not a Christian denomination. They place the authority of Joseph Smith’s revelations above the Holy Bible. No Christian believes that.

        Once again, we see that you have a very ignorant view of Christianity. And once again, we see you taking an opportunity to put them down. But you’re very tolerant, inclusive, loving, and accepting, right,?

        • “Mormonism is not a Christian denomination“

          There you go again, judging other people’s faith. Where did I read something about not judging others…

          “Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints unequivocally affirm themselves to be Christians. They worship God the Eternal Father in the name of Jesus Christ. When asked what the Latter-day Saints believe, Joseph Smith put Christ at the center: “The fundamental principles of our religion is the testimony of the apostles and prophets concerning Jesus Christ, ‘that he died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended up into heaven;’ and all other things are only appendages to these, which pertain to our religion.”1 The modern-day Quorum of the Twelve Apostles reaffirmed that testimony when they proclaimed, “Jesus is the Living Christ, the immortal Son of God. … His way is the path that leads to happiness in this life and eternal life in the world to come.”


        • “…affirm themselves to be Christians.”

          Yeah, so did Hitler, right? You only believe these things when it’s convenient for you. Then you tell other Christians they’re practicing their faith wrong. You’re both ignorant and disingenuous. No self-identifying Christian in the world except Mormons place Joseph Smith’s word above the Holy Bible. Mormonism isn’t even considered another Christian denomination by most agnostic historians. Everyone except you knows that it’s something different.

        • “Everyone except you knows that it’s something different“

          Everyone except the Mormons, it’s their religion, they should know.

          And your statement about most agnostic historians… Hilarious, most actual historians don’t believe any of the fairy tales told by the adherents of the various guy daddies.

          Most draw the line at talking serpents and donkeys, winged horses, the parting of the Red Sea and the splitting of the moon.

        • “And your statement about most agnostic historians…”

          So you think historians have to agree with the people they document? Wow, you’re much worse than I thought. Be sure to take another swipe at the people you hate. You can’t resist yourself. Chant with me: love, acceptance, inclusion… You guys don’t really believe in any of that.

          “Everyone except the Mormons, it’s their religion, they should know.”

          So now all Christians except the Mormons are wrong? Okay, Miner. You aren’t even trying anymore. Or maybe your are, which is really bad.

        • FYI. Mormons have to be rebaptised when converting to Catholicism or Methodism. Yet, that isn’t required of members from Protestant or Orthodox churches. Mormons don’t recognize any baptism other than Mormon baptism. There’s a reason for that. There are too many differences. It isn’t just another Christian denomination. If you want to be an authority on religions, for whatever reason you have, then you should educate yourself first.

    • What, Wounded Knee doesn’t count? Or is that because it was committed by government officials, and not private citizens?

      • It always seems like people want to ignore that the greatest mass shootings, anywhere, including America, are governments against their own citizens.
        By the way, the United States gave 19 soldiers to Medal of Honor for that massacre. The American government will murder your family and then celebrate that they did it.

        • You are correct JWT.

          And it’s all about greed, the robber barons, captains of industry, railroad kings, who drove the westward expansion. The United States government gave millions of acres to the industrialists and oil barons in order to promote westward business expansion.

          But they had the small problem of removing the pesky folks who lived there tens of thousands of years.
          No problem, from intentionally providing blankets contaminated with smallpox, to just outright mass slaughter, the US government and big business eradicated the Native Americans.

        • MajorMistake,

          COOL STORY, BRO!!! Now do the one about Secretary Pete Bootyjuice paying off his cronies for so-called “infrastructure”. Or, maybe, “How’s that ‘Inflation Reduction Act’ workin’ on reducing Bidenflation?”

          You are a clown, but not a funny one.

        • “How’s that ‘Inflation Reduction Act’ workin’ on reducing Bidenflation?”

          pretty good, we’re doing better than every other country in the G7 while US unemployment hit record lows:

          “From February 2023 to June 2023, the U.S. was a close second to Canada for the G-7’s lowest inflation rate. Then, in July 2023, the United States edged slightly lower than Canada, sealing its lowest-in-the-G-7 status.

          In July 2023, the United States’ 3.2% rate was better than Canada’s 3.3%, France’s 4.3%, Italy’s 5.9%, and Germany’s 6.2%, and it was half of the United Kingdom’s 6.4% rate.”

          “2022 had the lowest total unemployment rate ever
          By Samantha Delouya, CNN
          Updated 5:06 PM EST, Wed December 20, 2023

          Jeenah Moon/Bloomberg/Getty Images
          For most of 2022, more jobs were available than there were job-seeking Americans.
          But new government data illustrates just how strong the record-breaking job market really was.

          The annual jobless rate for 2022 – known as the “work-experience unemployment rate” – fell to 7.6%, according to the “Work Experience of the Population” report released annually by the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

          That’s the lowest yearly unemployment rate ever recorded.“

  7. You can still bump fire your semi-auto any time you get the urge. You can teach a monkey to do it. Just can’t currently use a bump stock. Which is why the bump stock rule is idiotic, and not even the ATF is going to try to ban fingers. Ditto Glock switches.

    Plenty of “how-to’s” on YouTube.

  8. Correction: Where was any proof Vegas dude used bump stocks? Many former soldiers have stated it sounded like “belt fed”. TOO regular to be bumping along by the older shooter. Biggest coverup since JFK🙄 …and decide Illinois SCOTUS!

      • Utterly irrelevant as usual, Miner. Anyone who has actually operated a belt-fed, and has also tried to run a bump stock at the same rof, even with a reliable mag like a pmag, could tell there was no way the gun in that video wasn’t belt fed. With the surefire jam-o-matics in those orgy-of-evidence photos? ANFW. Not to mention the lack of the trashcan fulls of brass that should have been in those photos, but would have been interspersed with belt links so it had to be cleaned before the photos were stag… er, taken.
        And before you respond with your usual inane copy-pasted drivel, no one believes you have any expertise with firearms, much less crew-served belt-feds.

        • “Utterly irrelevant as usual, Miner. Anyone who has actually operated a belt-fed“

          My experience is not the issue here, although I have twisted the belt on a runaway pig more than once.

          Please, share with us the evidence you’re basing your conclusion on, even better perhaps you should share it with Las Vegas/NV LEOs and prosecutors.

          Or maybe you could just listen to the actual audio, clearly hear the rate of fire increasing and decreasing, clearly hear the pauses when he put down one weapon and picked up another.

        • MajorLiar,

          Once again, you seem DETERMINED to display your abject ignorance of (i) firearms, and (ii) reality. Y U B so stoopid, MajorLiar??

          We’ve all looked at/listened to various film/audio clips (when and as they were released). You’d be too bomfozzlingly stupid to understand, but I’d love to see the “chain of custody” report on those “clips”. Any idea where those chain of custody reports are, MajorLiar??? Nah, didn’t think so.

          Your reference to “twisting belts on a runaway pig” again proves both your ignorance and your constant prevarication. “Belt-feds” are intended to be crew-served FOR EXACTLY THAT REASON, you total moron!! So the shooter, who is supposed to concentrate on THE TARGET and TRIGGER DISCIPLINE would likely do that, and that’s why IT’S “CREW-SERVED” you complete @$$clown.

          And your mention of “runaway pig” (a complete poseur nickname, by the way) also discloses your abject ignorance. ANYONE who had actual training with deploying a belt-fed, crew-served weapon is CONSTANTLY drilled on “short, controlled bursts” . . . but, again, your ignorance betrays you.

          And, yes, there ARE changes in rate of fire APPARENTLY audible. Now explain to the class how the “sound of a series of short, controlled bursts” sounds suspiciously like what it is – regular changes in the rate of fire. EVEN IF your (ignorant, third-hand, and subjective) interpretation of that “evidence” were correct, it neither requires, nor negates, the possible presence of a belt-fed weapon when the actual shooting was done. Nor do the “late to the party” and obviously staged “photos” of the supposed shooting site prove a damn thing.

          The one thing that DOES prove something is a simple fact that ANY not-ignorant POTG knows about stupid “bump stocks” – they are jam machines. There is literally NO chance that even a decently-trained shooter could fire that volume of fire, over that period, without constant jams. And where are the photos of the obviously-jammed ARs, if he was just tossing aside a jammed AR and picking up another??

          Finally, you’ve NEVER even commented on the obvious discrepancy of the difference between the CLAIMED number of shots fired, over the period in question, and the lack of commensurate amounts of brass in ANY of the staged photos.

          MajorLiar, thou art a liar AND an ignoranus, devoid of ANY knowledge of firearms, a propagandist, and a bigot. Please stop displaying both your partisanship, AND your ignorance, dishonesty, and bigotry, and demanding that we treat your drivel as good-faith commentary. Go expire in an excavation.

      • A civilian news report means nothing. The ATF did not examine those guns. There was no ballistics of forensic analysis done on those firearms. That is the job of the AFT.

        That is why many people say that the attack was covered up. And possibly planned and executed by the FBI.

        That’s correct I said it.

        • “The ATF did not examine those guns. There was no ballistics of forensic analysis done on those firearms“

          That is an extraordinary claim.
          Which of course, will require extraordinary evidence.

          “That is why many people say… “

          Well, that’s rocksolid evidence, I’m sure that fact will be admitted into evidence in a court of law right away.

          I’m sure there’s many of us will be surprised to find that law-enforcement conducted no ballistics examinations as you claim.

          Including sheriff Lombard:

          “Lombardo said he was aware of the previously unreported figure because his department’s forensics lab is working with the FBI to process all ballistics evidence.“

          And this:

          “Arizona man who sold ammo to Las Vegas shooter Stephen Paddock is charged
          Douglas Haig was charged Friday with manufacturing armor-piercing bullets that were found inside Stephen Paddock’s Las Vegas hotel room
          Feb. 3, 2018, 3:29 AM EST / Updated Feb. 3, 2018, 3:29 AM EST
          By Associated Press“

        • MajorLiar,

          Explain to the class exactly what an “armor-piercing” round for a 5.56 AR platform rifle is, you government-fellating weirdo. “Green tips”, famously frequently referred to as “armor-piercing” by ignorant anti-gun fanatics, Leftist “reporters”, and various other liars, are no such thing, as ANY knowledgeable POTG is aware . . . which clearly excludes you.

          IF you knew your @$$ from your elbow in re: AR platform firearms, you would be aware that they do NOT react well to the only cartridge (for a 5.56) that could REMOTELY be considered “armor-piercing”, which is steel-cored ammunition. Try shooting a bunch of steel-core through even MULTIPLE ARs . . . lots o’ rounds, really fast (as the shooter is alleged to have done). How’s that workin’ out for ya, moron???

          Good, sweet Baby Jeebus on a a nuclear-powered pogo stick, you are dumb, MajorLiar!!!! When you were riding the short bus to “special class”, I bet the other kids laughed at “MajorLiar, the dummy”, didn’t they?

          Pro tip, MajorLiar – if you want to sound like you actually have a freakin’ clue what the hell you are talking about, you MIGHT want to invest a little time in actually finding out. Your constant lies would sound less stupid if you didn’t CONSTANTLY trip over rakes by stating obvious impossibilities as “facts” . . . but that would also require self-examination and self-awareness, two things of which you (and most Leftist/fascists) are absolutely incapable.

        • “Green tips”, famously frequently referred to as “armor-piercing” by ignorant anti-gun fanatics, Leftist “reporters”, and various other liars, are no such thing, as ANY knowledgeable POTG is aware“

          Hilarious, I’m rolling on the floor laughing, this could not be any more entertaining, thank you!

          “Green tip 5.56 is also known as M855 rounds. As its name suggests, these types of bullets come with a green color tip. The 62-grain projectile in these 5.56 rounds has a boat tail, lead core, and a unique steel “penetrator” tip.Known as the most common military surplus options available to AR-style guns in the market. These 5.56 bullets are specially designed to penetrate through body armor. The bullets come with a lead core wrapped in a copper jacket. M855 uses a 62-grain bullet, which is heavier than the standard 55-grain bullet weight. The bullet is not only heavier but is also made of a partial steel core.“

          Sound off! Bring it on down now!

          “These 5.56 bullets are specially designed to penetrate through body armor“

          Doctor, I’d like a second opinion please…

          “The SS109 / M855 cartridge has two names, but it’s one in the same. The NATO designation for this round is SS109. The U.S. Military’s designation is M855. The SS109 designation comes from Belgium, where FN Herstal is located. FN is the company that developed the SS109 cartridge before the U.S. Military adopted it. This round gets its “green tip” nickname from the actual painted green tip which identifies it as a steel core penetrator. Now you know!

          Either way, this armor-piercing round was developed to attack hard targets more effectively. This ammo can penetrate up to 3 millimeters (0.12″) of steel at 600 meters. Other ballistic data says this round can even go through up to 12 mm (0.47″) of hot-rolled steel armor at 100 meters.”

        • “Try shooting a bunch of steel-core through even MULTIPLE ARs . . . lots o’ rounds, really fast (as the shooter is alleged to have done). How’s that workin’ out for ya, moron???“

          Wow, you had better let the United States Army know so they can immediately stop shooting M855 and M855A1 because almost every round they fire from an M-16 platform has a steel core projectile.

          I am so grateful that there are so many tactical operators on this forum to get me squared away on all subjects war.

        • MIner49er, I’m curious: How effective are the ballistics vests police use against regular 223 rounds? Or 30-06? or .308?

          Because if the vests don’t protect against these types of rounds, then it might not make sense to ban the green-tipped stuff, even if they’re designed to be even more effective.

        • Lamprey, I have one word for you:


          Alfie, you’ve pointed out one of the main reasons many folks think citizen ownership of AR-15s is problematic, the ease with which the 5.56 round penetrates ‘bullet proof’ vests is one of the reasons cited for the inaction of LEOs in Uvalde.

          Especially when one considers the M855/SS109, 5.56 will typically penetrate suburban homes through and through, that is through the siding, masonite, insulation, sheet rock through the interior and out the other side.

          Designing a cartridge for use in wartime, where every target usually has cover of some kind, is completely different from a cartridge intended for civilian self-defense.

        • MajorIdiot,

          Somehow, I knew that you were dumb enough to “go there” on the “green tips”. I entertained a brief idea that you might not be that stupid, but . . . once again, your stupidity prevails. And your ONLY citation is an online description from an online ammo retailer (and an allegation about what the developer of the round alleges as to its capabilities).

          Yes, the M855 was designed to penetrate LIGHT body armor (doesn’t do much against Level IVA, particularly with plates . . . exactly the armor used by the US military). “Steel core” is, at best, a generous description of M855, and even the quotes you gave emphasize that . . . repeated rapid fire of M855 causes problems. Overheating, barrel wear, etc.

          Now, even though M855 ISN’T “armor-piercing”, as knowledgeable POTG on this forum have often discussed (do try to keep up, child, this is the advanced class), is only “armor-piercing” for lower-rated body armor. 5.56 is NOT “armor-piercing” in any meaningful way.

          But let’s look at rating systems for body armor, shall we?? What is the difference between Level III, Level IIIA, Level IV, and Level IVA, and which SPECIFIC calibers are they tested against, Mr. “Expert”???? What is become the standard LEO (and often military) sniper rifle?? Why, the old .300WInMag. Please lecture the class, you drooling moron, on the relative effectiveness of the 5.56, vs. .300WinMag vs. .338 Lapua Magnum vs. .50BMG with respect to Level IVA body armor. We’ll wait.

          In the spirit of being a “good Christian”, let me help you out, mouth-breather. NO ONE in the military considers the 5.56 an “armor piercing” weapon. Snipers (and don’t even get me STARTED on your lack of understanding of the difference between a sniper and a “designated marksman”; i’d be laughing too hard to respond).

          Now, when you’ve finished that exercise, quarter-wit, tell us again how you’ve twisted many a belt when your “pig ran wild”. Your lies simply become too ludicrous for even mockery to deal with it. While you’re at it, please expound on how Article II, Section 8 authorizes universal gun control, you complete, utter, lying,imbecile of a lying, propagandist, Leftist/fascist moron.

        • “And possibly planned and executed by the FBI“

          So you are blaming the Las Vegas massacre on Donald Trump‘s FBI and justice department?

          OK, I’m willing to believe your speculation, fits his personality.

        • Donald Trump’s FBI? Ha! Don’t make me laugh!

          There’s a very good reason why the FBI is considered a part of the Deep State. The FBI never was under control of Donald Trump. I sincerely doubt they are under control of Biden right now, either — they have become their own entity, acting as they see fit, independent of Presidents.

    • “Will this kill the pistol brace ban? Asking for a friend“

      Yep, the Obama/Biden ministration approved pistol braces for Americans, and then ‘pro-gun’ Donald Trump begin the process to ban pistol braces.

      Ya can’t make this stuff up.

  9. The real question is whether or not the Government has the authority to infringe on arms at all. The 2A says no touchy arms, and that includes full auto arms.

    “All laws which are repugnant to the Constitution are null and void.” Marbury vs. Madison, 5 US (2 Cranch) 137, 174, 176, (1803)

    “Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which would abrogate them.” Miranda vs. Arizona, 384 US 436 p. 491.

    • While I agree with the sentiment in both cases, be aware that the current Supreme Court has no problem eroding rights under Miranda:

      “Today, in Vega v. Tekoh, the court backtracked substantially on its Miranda promise. In Vega, the court held 6-3 (over an excellent dissent by Justice Elena Kagan) that an individual who is denied Miranda warnings and whose compelled statements are introduced against them in a criminal trial cannot sue the police officer who violated their rights, even where a criminal jury finds them not guilty of any crime. By denying people whose rights are violated the ability to seek redress under our country’s most important civil rights statute, the court has further widened the gap between the guarantees found in the Bill of Rights and the people’s ability to hold government officials accountable for violating them.“

      • be aware that the current Supreme Court had no problem strengthening the Second Amendment to wit: Bruen decision.

        Ya see what I wrote, using your own general sentence structure, the relational context there to the 2A ‘gunnygene’ is talking about? Oh wait, you don’t know what context means Miner49er so you don’t know what relational context is and you hate the Constitution – which is why you post trolling nonsense from completely unrelated cases.

        • “miner is on record as saying rights can be limited“

          Yep, me and the Supreme Court.

          Freedom of speech is not absolute, there are limits on slander, libel and defamation, just ask Rudy Giuliani or Fox ‘News’, those limits just cost them $1billionUS.

          Your fourth amendment rights have limits and exceptions, authorized by the Supreme Court:

          “Over the years, the Supreme Court has carved out exceptions to the warrant requirement to prevent valuable evidence from being destroyed“

          To claim all constitutional rights are without limit is to deny reality.

      • OOH! OOH!! I know the answer to that one, MajorLiar!!

        Quote the language from the Constitution that requires a police officer to inform the suspect of his “Miranda rights” (as much a part of the actual Constitution as Roe v. Wade’s “Constitutional right” to murder babies), MajorLiar. The Warren court pulled Miranda out of it’s collective arse, just like they did with Roe v. Wade.

        Now, feel free to argue that it was the “right” decision (go ahead, have at it – it would be humorous to see you, in your near-total ignorance of actual law, make that effort), in either case. But show us the actual, Constitutional language that requires EITHER result, MajorLiar.

        Now, fast forward to today, and ‘splain to me, Lucy, how it would even be POSSIBLE for ANYONE living in modern America to be ignorant of their “Miranda rights”. “Miranda warnings” are so much of the lore of nearly ALL modern “entertainment” that it is almost a joke.

        Now, HOWEVER you parse your “argument” on those issues, explain to us how you reconcile THAT with “ignorance of the law is no excuse”. Oh, and if the government is obligated to provide me with “Miranda warnings” and a government-paid attorney for my defense, why does that not extend to the government being OBLIGATED to buy me food? And provide a dwelling place?

        I realize that facts and logic are to Leftist/fascist idiots as kryptonite is to Superman, but the inconsistency of Leftist positions is cause for great mirth among conservatives and libertarians. We’re not laughing with you, MajorLiar, we’re laughing AT you. And pointing, and laughing some more.

        • “The Warren court pulled Miranda out of it’s collective arse“

          Well there you go, our friend lamprey doesn’t believe the police officer should acknowledge your constitutional rights, how authoritarian of you.

          And he seems to think it is ridiculous to be provided with a court appointed attorney if you can’t afford one, so much about that whole promise of ‘equal protection under the law’.

          It seems Lamprey is a proud soldier in the war on the poor, his motto seems to be “No money, no Justice, so what, do you think this is the land of the free?”

          Meanwhile, he worships a ConMan with 91 felony charges in four separate jurisdictions, found civilly liable for sexual assault and corporate fraud.

        • Well, MajorLiar, I guess you must have missed all those MYRIAD posts where I made it very clear that I had not voted for Teh Donald, either time (probably will, this time, since the alternative is unthinkable for a sane person). I NEVER much liked Teh Donald. I thought he had some smart policies (like closing the border, which the ham-handed senile idiot there now has managed to COMPLETELY eff up), got lucky with a few that were stupid and should have backfired on him (or perhaps he was just playing seven dimensional chess with all of us, eh?), and was overall a FAR more effective (and certainly less damaging) President than the current idiot or his prior boss.

          “Worship” him???? Dude, you pulled that one outta your backside.