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Tony Larvie, chief of police for the Bureau of Indian Affairs Crow Agency office (courtesy

Gun control activists in states like Massachusetts are constantly demanding increased regulations and more laws to “improve gun safety,” laws which disproportionately impact law abiding gun owners and do little to reduce the impact of gun violence on the community. In response, gun owners typically point out that it is far more effective to simply enforce the existing laws and get illegal guns off the streets than to bother the law abiding.

The high court in Massachusetts is now making that effort a little harder, throwing out a conviction for possession of an unregistered and illegal handgun because, as they see it, the mere fact that the man in question ran from the police isn’t sufficient cause to search him.

From the ruling:

We do not eliminate flight as a factor in the reasonable suspicion analysis whenever a black male is the subject of an investigatory stop. However, in such circumstances, flight is not necessarily probative of a suspect’s state of mind or consciousness of guilt. Rather, the finding that black males in Boston are disproportionately and repeatedly targeted for FIO [Field Interrogation and Observation] encounters suggests a reason for flight totally unrelated to consciousness of guilt. Such an individual, when approached by the police, might just as easily be motivated by the desire to avoid the recurring indignity of being racially profiled as by the desire to hide criminal activity. Given this reality for black males in the city of Boston, a judge should, in appropriate cases, consider the report’s findings in weighing flight as a factor in the reasonable suspicion calculus.

In short, the court believes that the highly publicized shootings of black males by police in recent months now makes it acceptable for those individuals to run from the police.

Courts have long upheld the idea that people don’t run from the police unless they have something to hide, and trying to evade the police provides all the probable cause necessary to perform a simple search of a person and their effects. The impact of eliminating this long-standing rationale for searching a suspect remains to be seen. But all signs indicate that it will make the job of law enforcement much more difficult, not to mention dangerous for law enforcement officers.

It will also put individuals who would otherwise have been caught with an illegally possessed gun back on the streets…endangering others. All while the Massachusetts AG continues her assault on law abiding gun owners.

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  1. Well then police should just shoot to kill. Yes blacks have a reason to flee the police, same as all other groups, they are criminals. ONLY criminals flee the police. Not all blacks are criminals, if you have done nothing wrong you have no reason to fear them, UNLESS you are a legal gun owner. 🙂

    • “ONLY criminals flee the police.”


      ” if you have done nothing wrong you have no reason to fear them”

      Avoiding contact with steroid addicted armed thugs is just basic survival.

      • Chris, then people should try to avoid contact. Don’t drive you brother’s car, wif a suspended license, which do have de plates off your cousint’s car, 70 MPH through a 40 zone, weaving in an out of traffic, while obviously smoking a blunt.

        Every single time I go up to Michael Brown’s hood, I see some combo-platter of that if I’m there more than 10 minutes.

        There are bad cops, there are bad departments. But the vast majority are of no risk to you if you simply don’t do anything obviously stupid enough to have an interaction with the cops in the first place.

        Believe me, there’s plenty of easy targets out there.

      • Well shit I guess you don’t much like cops, fire fighters, infantry men, special operators, or security contractors. Got news for you, here in NC we got gyms full of all those guys.

        • I avoid them all. If not rattlesnakes (cops) they are government leeches obsessed with compensation (all of them). It’s a mindset incompatible with my own.

        • @When

          Well, fuck you to. Most of us get paid to do a job. Given the hours we put in, the pay is actually slave wages, but hey whatever lets your fat ass sleep soundly at night in the assurance that Durka Durka won’t climb through the window.

        • Stu- Don’t insult the infantry by comparing them to cops in any way, shape, or form. The soldiers oath is to protect the U.S. Constitution against ALL enemies, foreign or domestic. Cops exist only to promote their own bureaucracies, and go home to sleep in their own beds at night. Most are selfish and have no clue what teamwork is all about.

          When Gray- you are correct, cops are parasites on society. They produce nothing. Every piece of bread on their table is a crumb stolen from the citizens by way of taxation with the threat of force. Cops constantly whine about how tough their job is, but police work is not even listed in the top ten from Labor Dept. stats for fatalities any more in the U.S. Fishermen, lumberjacks and farmers have more deaths in their line of work, and you don’t hear them whining about it all the time either.

      • I think any restrictions on government power are good things. Police are the agents and enforcers of the government so restrictions on them are good things.

    • Frank, spouting bullshit like “if you’ve done nothing wrong you should have nothing to fear” isn’t going to make you a lot of friends, even if you hide it behind “black people”.

      • Um I’m not here to “make friends”. Just give my openion and something for people to think about. I fear the police as well, I am a legal gun owner and to a lot of cops that’s enough to shoot me. However, I still would not run from them, as I know the laws where I live. To me color of someone’s skin has nothing to do with it. It is mind set. If you have done something illegal and know/think the police might be after you for it, of course you are going to run, no matter your skin color. If you fight the police, they are going to use force to get you into cuffs, again no matter your skin color. If you can’t handle the facts, go back to living in la la land.

    • U.S. Constitution – 5th Amendment:

      “…nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law…”

      Sure sounds to me like you have a right to “flee”, since you are at liberty, and to be stopped and questioned by police who suspect you of criminal activity is to be a witness against yourself.

      Either we support the rights protected by the Bill of Rights, or we do not.

      And by the way, the designation of any firearm as “illegal” is already a violation of the Second Amendment, as is the designation of an individual as a “prohibited person”.

      • AYE!
        If walking away from the police slowly can’t get me arrested (and it shouldn’t) then running shouldn’t either.
        Regardless of race. If they’re going to arrest me for something, then they better have some sort of evidence before they search me.

        • Hey, we just saw walking away slowly, with arms raised, result in being shot to death. Something is wrong.

      • I agree with you. But, why should this only be applied to people of black complexion? Aren’t we all given the equal right to flee the police?

      • Is a person who is in the custody of the state a “prohibited person”, how about someone on bail, or a parolee? Honestly I think they should just put people under unsupervised parole for the length of their sentencing and have their gun rights resorted automatically after the end of the parole.

      • You beat me to it Cliff,

        As soon as I read, “Courts have long upheld the idea that people don’t run from the police unless they have something to hide …”, I immediately thought of the Fifth Amendment as well.

        How many times have we heard people say, “There is no reason not to talk to the police if you have nothing to hide.”?

      • Even more so, it is not an excuse to shoot anyone. If you wish that fishing expedition, chase him down on foot and beat him into submission. Draw your gun and be prosecuted, just like I would be.

        This attitude from me pertains *only* to fishing expeditions, has nothing to do with serving warrants or inserting yourself into a crime in progress, and so forth. If a kid’s skin is kinda tan, he wears his pants around his knees and his hat sideways, that is not excuse to kill him. It is not excuse to arrest him. It is not even excuse to stop him and frisk him. If we wish for 2A to be respected, we damn well better support the concept of “due process”.

        • Larry @ 11:13- “If we wish for 2A to be respected, we damn well better support the concept of “due process”.

          I can’t speak for Texas, but here in Illinois I can tell you that once you leave Cook County for anywhere including Joliet and points south, you might as well be in a third world country as far as the lowered I.Q. level of the white baby boomer population. The absolute ignorance of the typical NRA member is how Illinois state lobbyist Todd Vandermyde was able to pass off the worst piece of garbage imaginable as a concealed carry bill, throw in every single backstabbing rat trick and trap the police unions wanted so they can execute armed citizens at will and get away with it legally, then slap an “NRA” label on the bill and declare victory. Now send more money to NRA, Inc. for the favor they did for you on top of it all.

          Here’s how it works in the all-white small towns such as Chatsworth, World Headquarters of the ISRA (NRA state affiliate filled with wax museum old farts clutching double barreled shotguns): instead of the Klan like the real south, every little bullshit Illinois town has a Freemason lodge. If you know the secret handshake and suck ass with the local cops and deputies, when they question if you are armed, you discuss the local gun range barbecue food. In other words, the inbred losers who think Todd Vandermyde is a hero expect to be treated differently than blacks in Chicago and Cook County who they sold out on Illinois carry bill, because “everyone knows me around here.”

          You will never understand their disgusting racist delusions because you have a brain and can actually read and write.

    • Nothing good can come from contract with the police, criminal or otherwise. Don’t give them room to trample you with stop and frisk, ‘detainment’ aka arrest under a sugar coated legal term, or otherwise give them a reason to harass/tail you around town every time you are seen. They aren’t your friends, especially when there aren’t any cameras around.

      Police are just another cartel of criminals with an extra dose of power behind them. They should be treated the same as the hoodlums, avoid them like they are a plague, go around.

      • Arc @ 10:41- Most comprehensive comment of the day. “Nothing good can come from contact with the police…” So true! There is simply no upside whatsoever with law enforcement contact of any sort, from a traffic ticket to a theft they never solve. It’s all negativity, bullying, and control projection.

        “They aren’t your friends, especially when there aren’t any cameras around.” I don’t know how many times I’ve told my younger relatives, who range in age from seventeen to thirty: The police are not your friends.

        They are the ones testifying against you in court. Like Satan accusing you on judgement day before the great white throne. I find it amazing how similar a police encounter can be to Father Merrin performing an exorcism. The demon will mix lies with truth. There’s always some element of deception and a presence of evil. Pretense is the closest way to describe it.

        “They should be treated the same as the hoodlums, avoid them like they are a plague, go around.” Sound advice. Like Father Damian should not have spoken to the demon. “Damey, why you do this to me Damey?”

    • Next, MA will declare that blacks have legitimate reasons to assassinate police officers because of slavery in the 19th century. The white guilt and excuses for criminal behavior never seenm to end.

  2. After Too Big to Fail and the bailout with taxpayer money, I have a legitimate reason to not only loathe banks but want to get my money back. I believe bank robbery a legitimate solution.
    Th cradle of liberty is reduced to lunacy.
    The rule of law is not a rule any more in MA, it is just a suggestion. An unenforceable suggestion.

  3. “it will make the job of law enforcement much more difficult”

    Good, the rights of citizens should outweigh government employees having an “easy” time of things.

    Avoiding cops is a reasonable measure for any citizen. Cops have shown themselves to be the enemy of the American people. It is time we started treating them as such.

    • It’s much akin to what The Supremes ruled long ago, “There’s nothing wrong with avoiding taxes, the problem is evading them.

    • Chris, I get the feeling you’ve had a lot of “law enforcement contacts” in your time, is there a particular reason for that? It could explain this statement:

      “Cops have shown themselves to be the enemy of the American people. It is time we started treating them as such.”

      Where do you live to come up with this stuff and what are you doing, because this is not normal thinking in the rest of the country?

      • That depends on who you ask. I have had no personal contact with police in my 67 years except for a handful of very mundane speeding tickets, and I have also come to the conclusion that the changes we have allowed to take place, characterized by departing from the “peace officer” model to the “law enforcer” model, have made the nature of the institution of police forces anti-individual-liberty. LEOs are tasked with enforcing far too many laws making peaceful, victimless activity into crimes.

        Even the best cops, those who do not tolerate abusive and/or criminal colleagues, are enablers of an abusive State. They most certainly are not the cause of the problem, but they don’t help.

        • Thank you, Well Stated: “I have also come to the conclusion that the changes we have allowed to take place, characterized by departing from the “peace officer” model to the “law enforcer” model, have made the nature of the institution of police forces anti-individual-liberty.”

    • 1st off, most people on this page live in “free-states ” compared to the People’s Republic of Massachusetts. Most of those people don’t understand the Left-wing political natural of Massachusetts. Most posters come from “instant check/short waiting period ” southern, or Midwestern states where you figure police, or sheriff’s will do the right thing…Here in Massachusetts it’s all @$$ backwards. A lot of local / state police have unmitigated authority. They control your 2nd amendment rights through licensing schemes *(can’t even purchase a longarm, pistol, ammo, without a permit and multiple police permissions. )* also, if you are stopped by police. Any Massachusetts citizen who gives up their civil rights runs the serious 50% of running afoul of one of those many “political police ” who will stop at nothing to criminalize you…Even if you have a clean record…There is even leeway in the law that allows a police officer to charge a citizen for any weapon “legal or illegal ” if the officer at a whim decides you were acting disorderly, or engaged in a breach of the peace…Me , I have a clean record, and experienced unpleasantness with a couple of local p/o paramilitary commando want-to-be’s . I was personally stopped on foot in my township twice because I had a “suspiciously bright tactical military style flashlight !!!” I was unloading my car of groceries at about 9pm. Walking from my residence parking lot. There was obviously NO suspicious activity! I remembered a civil rights course my attorney had taught *(a lawyer who helped me deal with an evil landlord who was engaged in unlawful conduct. Attorney did property, estate, and criminal.)* One thing that burned in my mind was…Don’t talk to the police—” they are not your friends, never surrender your basic civil rights, keep walking—if questioned, stats clearly, while walking: am I being detained for suspicion of committing a crime. Yes , or no…If the p/o , doesn’t answer…Or does says I want to ask you some questions. Don’t stop unless you are told you are being detained. I’d you stop under your own accord. It is considered a ” consensual stop” , or a challenge to “authority”. By the Bill of Rights, you don’t have to stop to answer any questions because of 5th amendment protections! Massachusetts is a crazy liberal pit….So I don’t have a complete problem with a court ruling. Unless it doesn’t pertain to everyone. So it will probably apply to all citizens by the time it’s run up and down through the court system in this commy bloc City-State. And no this is not any police. I have relatives in law enforcement, and they say the same thing…Watch your self in Massachusetts…Don’t give up your rights….There has been way too many police brutality and corruption incidents in Massachusetts. NOT ALL WE’RE Black related….re: Massachusetts citizen in Medford Massachusetts who was lost. Went the wrong way on a rotary. Puled over by local police. Who threatened to shoot lost resident in the head for mistake! Young police Commando in another township. Who lied, said a pickup truck fill of NRA type domestic terrorists shot up his police cruiser, and set it blaze…While they tried to kill the police officer. Nope, young p/o was crazy, and set into motion a “police states style lock down of a township ” because he went nuts and orchestrated some kind revenge plot…And he called in a bomb threat to his old high school while this was going on…Finally some real police investigations came to pass and he was taken into custody. Police chief began apologizing to residents. Young cop committed suicide.
      ..So just a small batch of news to think about….

    • Chris- if you dig a little deeper you will find that cops write most of the laws, especially the gun laws, with the help of the NRA. When Illinois’ weapons (UUW) statute was totally overturned by the U.S. Federal Appeals court in Chicago in a surprise ruling in Dec. 2012, it was NRA state lobbyist Todd Vandermyde who put Duty to Inform w/ criminal penalties in Rep. Brandon Phelps “NRA backed” concealed carry bill, not Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel, not Speaker of the House Mike Madigan, and not democratic “Chicago Machine” politicians.

      When the best opportunity in FIFTY YEARS fell in his lap, and when the NRA had the weight of the U.S. Government behind them to force the Illinois legislature to pass a carry bill, Vandermyde placed Duty to Inform in Phelps bill because he already cut a deal with the IL Chiefs of Police, who opposed any form of citizen carry for forty years.

      Promoting legalized murder of armed citizens and constructing the legal infrastructure for a criminal police state is a joint production between traitors like Vandermyde and the police unions lobbying the legislature. They’re all on the same side- against you.

      • I think they put it in there to keep dumb asses like you from being shot. The way the law is if you ave a CCL and a cop asks if you are armed, you must notify them. The 5th dose not apply as you are not incriminating yourself (the courts can force you to testify if doing so does not incriminate yourself, and they do this by giving you immunity to anything you testify to). Al lot of cops are pro CCW. How many would still be if armed citizens started lying about being armed?

        • If Duty to Inform promoted “officer safety”, cops would have to do it. Cops don’t have Duty to Inform each other because they write the laws with the NRA for their own benefit, then provide the language to ignorant racist hicks like state Rep. Brandon Phelps from Harrisburg. Phelps lives in far southern IL, thirty miles from the Kentucky border, and he doesn’t care about black people in Chicago being subject to stop and frisk policing and plainclothes tactical teams. He’s a good old boy, like the inbred hillbillies who vote for him.

          That’s why Duty to Inform was placed in Phelps bill, so the police have a legal excuse to stop and question anyone they want, at any time, then kill them if they feel like it. DTI with criminal penalties gives them legal cover for murder, and nothing in Phelps “NRA backed” carry bill says that the “officer” who questions you has to be in uniform or on duty. It could be John Gacy posing as a Cook County sheriff’s deputy. When your mother gets disarmed and raped by a serial killer posing as a cop because Todd Vandermyde put DTI in Illinois carry bill, you might understand this, but I’m not holding my breath. There are thousands of retarded hick NRA members in southern IL who are so brain dead stupid that they think Todd Vandermyde is their hero, when he is the traitor who sold them out to the anti-gun police unions.

          More interesting is the fact that before he was an NRA lobbyist, Vandermyde worked for William Dugan at the Intl. Union of Operating Engineers local 150 in Countryside, IL. Dugan was president of the 150 union, then he was convicted by U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald in 2010. Why do Chris Cox & Chuck Cunningham at NRA/ILA employ a person who worked for a union president that was taken down by the FBI and U.S. Attorney? Have they ever done a background check on Vandermyde’s character and associations, or do they deliberately employ a person who betrays their own members to be set up and murdered by police criminals like Philando Castile in Minnesota?

        • Binder, in TX it is not about being asked, which seems pretty reasonable. You have a duty to get all in a cop’s face and insist he listen while you inform him. I was pulled over for speeding, and before I could say anything the cop used his loudspeaker to order me out of the car. My gun was in the car, so once I got out I was unarmed, no more duty to inform. When I pulled out my driver’s license he saw my CHL and asked if I was armed. When I responded “no”, he followed with was I armed when in the car, and I answered “yes”, the gun was in the car. He proceeded to give me all manner of shit about my DTI, becoming more agitated each time I did something unforgivable like asking how I was going to do that while in my car as he talked at me over a loudspeaker, eventually threatening to take me downtown to discuss it. I was not ready, next time it will be “Let’s go, I want to talk to your boss. And his boss.”

  4. Wow just wow that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard I can’t even believe that judge has a right to sit in that courtroom what a complete lunatic.

  5. Cops in MA should just give up. The situation is impossible. Get a call and see people running from the scene? Nope, got no reason to stop them.

    I’d start busting every judge for 5 over. They hate you anyway.

    • They absolutely should give up. Every last one of them. State, city, and county. 3-4 days of staying home and letting it be known publicly they are staying home should do it. Some of the laws would change because a lot of the people will have changed, a lot of them permanently.

      • Instead of staying home, they should set up in all the gun stores, to be certain all firearms purchase laws are complied with to the letter, as everybody discovers what guns are for and that they need one *RIGHT FREAKING NOW!”.

  6. “Rather, the finding that black males in Boston are disproportionately and repeatedly targeted for FIO [Field Interrogation and Observation] encounters suggests a reason for flight totally unrelated to consciousness of guilt.”

    Wow, it is far from the street on the bench, no? When you’re part of a biker gang the cops are more likely to target you. There’s a reason that if you stop 3 GM F-Body cars, odds are really good you’ll find at least one with felony weight drugs, and usually an illegal gun (cops I know refer to them as “felony bodies”) – not to mention a more current Grand Am or Grand Prix, but I digress.

    The inner city black guy is unfortunately going to be targeted, especially the one hanging out at the corner. Why? Because they are responsible for a vastly disproportionate amount of crime committed. I live in an STL ‘burb, and a black guy is no more going to be stopped than anyone else – unless his Ex-calade is on 32’s and he’s boomin’ the bass, with everything but a license plate that says “DOPEMAN” on it.

    I would assume RF had an article that I missed over the last few months with the study from a Harvard economist that showed in fact that whites were more likely to get killed by cops. Another interesting point? He’s black…

    • Hate to be pedantic, but I believe the new term is “warrant wagon”, not “felony body”.

      However, it may be a regional thing instead.

      • Jake, I’m 50, so most of the cops I know are pushing at least 35 by now, and some are about to retire. My cop-speak isn’t always current.

        Thanks for the update, or maybe it is a regional thing. Regardless, learn something new everyday…

  7. Until I read that “ruling” I was pretty sure systemic institutional racism was largely fictional. Well, it isn’t now. Nice work, courts.

    Talk about your “bigotry of low expectations”.

  8. Did the judge get paid off or what… That’s some serious Jedi mind trick stuff right there… This is not the criminal heater you’re looking for…

    He wasn’t running because he was late for bible study and cops are scary… He had a stolen gun!!! Unbelievable, that’s a very bad precedence to set…

  9. Because I know about the Boston PD, I’m generally against anything that it supports and I’m generally supportive of anything that it’s against. Sorry, but that’s the way it is.

    • Sounds like that Stop and Frisk stuff that NYC is so fond of. It ain’t constitutional to confront somebody just cause of their skin tone.

      • Maybe Boston PD is a nest of vipers, wouldn’t be the first department.

        But still, I seriously doubt any except the most dirty of cops likes to waste their time. It’s not just that they’re black, it’s their hanging on the corner all day, or are obviously part of a gang, or have a $100K car, with $20K worth of rims, and $20K of stereo parked in front of a $30K house. There’s almost always something else.

        Now, NYPD? They’re nothing but scum of the earth, they’ve been widely exposed for their quota arrest system, and someone should fire the entire lot. That third-world-hell-hole makes Rampart look like decent cops.

  10. You know what would great? If every US cop stopped working for 24 hours.

    The fallout would be eye opening for most.

    But then again somehow white people who support the law, the country, and freedom OF religion would probably be held to blame for the acts of criminals.

      • Out where I live, I’d never notice. Cops are completely superfluous to my security and safety.

        In the city where my rental properties are … I’d also never notice. They don’t stop burglaries, they never catch the perpetrators, they just fill out paperwork.

        • Government jobs in general attract the least productive people, whether it’s garbagemen or cops. If you think about the people you went to grammar school with, the ones who became cops twenty years later were usually the bullies, or the ones who were bullied and picked on. Study the psych profiles and MMPI results of police applicants as I have, and you will find results indicating sociopathic behavior vastly above the median for the American population.

          Most of the people from my neighborhood that I knew from day one in kindergarten who became cops had at least one parent who was a government employee such as fireman, teacher, park district, etc. Most cops score below average I.Q. in the dull normal range, and that’s the way the system wants it. Chicago P.D. as far as I know still does not require a four year degree in the year 2016. The system wants people who are underqualified and overpaid, that way they aren’t likely to leave. Mostly the system employs morons who can’t think for themselves and follow orders, like kicking your door down when it comes time to seize your guns.

        • Exactly this. The role of government is to steal and kill, only psychopaths and dullards can do this.

          Courts have ruled that police departments can reject high IQ applicants, supposedly because they’d quit and go earn more money elsewhere. Of course the real reason is because intelligent people cannot be cops, they’d ask too many questions.

  11. That’s quite the precedent. Now if a black man runs from police he can just toss whatever illegal contraband and get off scott free. Got a body in a bag over your shoulder run from police and drop it. Done and done. Bags of H just toss it.

  12. It has always been a defense to flee from unlawful detainment. At least it has been since the ratification of the Bill of Rights.

    The point of the court is not that they blacks feel they will be killed, but that they will be repeatedly detained without cause. They seem to believe there is evidence that supports this claim. If that’s the case, then yes, fleeing from repeated unlawful detainment is reasonable.

  13. When cop bashing backfires. “AM I BEING DETAINED!?” isn’t a question, it’s a spell; -15 intelligence on all males under 25, +10 to stubborness and a permanent boost for your impotent rage. It’s the original “hands up, don’t shoot.”

  14. “Courts have long upheld the idea that people don’t run from the police unless they have something to hide”

    Citation needed.

    Also the irony of a purportedly pro-2A site whining about “illegal guns”.

  15. Can’t detain you if they can’t catch you. Just be faster than the other guy.

    And if cops just didnt show up to work one day. Nothing would change , the streets would not be filled with blood. What would happen is people would get up and go to work like normal. if anything did happen maybe just maybe some actual justice might take place.

    • I believe it is Glenn Reynolds who has often said (thought he’s probably not the only one), that the cops aren’t there to protect the citizens, they’re there to protect the criminals from the kind of justice citizens would dole out in the absence of cops.

      • True statement. Cops need crime to justify their existence. The MSM and police unions constantly push the lie that society would collapse without the “thin blue line” to hold it together, but American society did just fine for the first hundred years or so after 1776. Most major cities did not have police forces until the late 1800s at best.

        The parasite has to constantly remind the host that he could not possibly function without the parasite. The myth that society could not function without cops is a lie that enables their continued manipulation of the legal system to exist as a class of person who can kill at will and be totally above the law. Look at the restrictions on cops carrying under LEOSA, then look at the terms and restrictions of your state carry license.

        • They didn’t need police forces because your neighbors would hang you from a lamp post when you were accused of a crime.

    • Right reason, wrong justification for the right reason. Everyone breaks 100 laws every day. Go 36 in a 35 on your way to work. Cross a street without waiting for the proper signal, or a rolling stop at a stop sign. Have tints darker than allowable by law. Smoking a cigarette 24′ away from the entrance to a building, cutting the tags off your mattress, downloading tv shows, whatever…

      Merely avoiding the police, for whatever reason and in whatever way (“No officer, I do not grant my consent for you to search my house”) is common sense that more people should follow, regardless of race.

      “I saw a cop, and I was afraid that he might talk to me (Field Interrogation) and look at me (Field Observation) because I’m black” doesn’t pass the sniff test, but “I saw a cop and didn’t have the time to get embroiled in any sort of nonsense”, on the other hand, is.

  16. “Courts have long upheld the idea that people don’t run from the police unless they have something to hide”

    Citation needed.

    Also the irony of a purportedly pro-2A site crying about “illegal guns”. Natural rights, subject to review by politicians and government bureaucrats. 🙂

    • Agreed, with irony….
      Added to for citation:
      Excerpt : *(WEX legal dictionary )*

      Fifth Amendment
      Fifth Amendment: An Overview

      The Fifth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution provides, “No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.”

      The clauses incorporated within the Fifth Amendment outline basic constitutional limits on police procedure. The Framers derived the Grand Juries Clause and the Due Process Clause from the Magna Carta, dating back to 1215. Scholars consider the Fifth Amendment as capable of breaking down into the following five distinct constitutional rights: grand juries for capital crimes, a prohibition on double jeopardy, a prohibition against required self-incrimination, a guarantee that all criminal defendants will have a fair trial, and a promise that the government will not seize private property without paying market value. While the Fifth Amendment originally only applied to federal courts, the U.S. Supreme Court has interpreted the Fifth Amendment’s provisions as now applying to the states through the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment

  17. This ruling appears to contradict Illinois v. Wardlow which indicated that it is legal to detain someone in a high-crime area who engages in headlong flight from the police. That case accepted that not everyone fleeing from the police is guilty of something but that the police may detain said person to investigate and determine whether there is evidence of a crime. That said, it isn’t just ‘flight’ that is in play but the surrounding circumstances- a high-crime area, looking in car windows, etc- that combine to reach reasonable suspicion. If someone flees without ANY context suggesting criminal activity it might not pass muster under the above case (Wardlow).

    And then this:

    “Courts have long upheld the idea that people don’t run from the police unless they have something to hide, and trying to evade the police provides all the probable cause necessary to perform a simple search of a person and their effects.”

    Passages like this should be proof-read by someone with a basis of knowledge in Constitutional law (i.e. Terry v. Ohio) who knows the difference between a frisk and a search as well as the difference between reasonable suspicion and probable cause. Flight alone does not provide probable cause, though it MAY provide reasonable suspicion. The police can arrest based on probable cause but can only detain based on reasonable suspicion. The police cannot search anyone’s person based on either reasonable suspicion or probable cause unless they arrest the person (search incident to arrest) OR they have reasonable suspicion that the person is both engaged in criminal activity and is armed- and even in that latter case they cannot ‘search’ someone but can do a cursory frisk of someone checking for weapons (i.e. no going into pockets to search for a blunt). Got it? Cool.

    • Yeah, don’t go counting on people understanding TerryVOhio. The urban myth is that it was overturned with “stop and frisk.”

      • You comment and the one above are interesting. I don’t understand it either, my impression is that NYC cops stop people, frisk to ensure safety in case of a weapon, and arrest them based on any drugs found

        There were more than half a million stop and frisk stops a year in NYC according to the aClu

        • I was being a little sarcastic, I know it’s a complicated topic and is nearly impenetrable at first.

          As to NYC, that may very well have been what they were doing: finding the flimsiest excuse to pat someone down for a weapon for the real purpose of tying to feel for something they can recognize as drugs on feel. But that’s not what stop and frisk is meant to do.

  18. The only thing I disagree with is tying it to blacks. There are legitimate reasons why an honest man of any race might flee the police.

  19. COMEY LIVES, AND WILL ABIDE! Injecting “Intent” into law, where facts don’t fit the desired “AGENDA.” Term Limits for Judicial is as important as for Legislative, to PREVENT CAREER POLITICIANS legislating from the bench, AGAIN & AGAIN & AGAIN …

  20. How wonderful to have a leftist court in a leftist state draw racial lines on who can and who cannot legally run from cops. So much for the “color blind” society Obama and his commie minions have been demanding.

    Obamas fundamental transformation is done, no matter who “wins” the next election we all lose, because the courts are stacked to the ceilings with leftist judges who will continue to overturn the rule of law regardless. Obama wins and the damage he has done will last into the next generations, if this country survives that long before breaking up into Balkanized factions. Actually, the urban centers already appear like scenes from Mad Max with scenes from Stalingrad thrown in. Such is the glory of the Democrat Death Cult.

  21. In the case discussed, a robbery occurred and the description of the assailant was a black man in dark clothing. The police search the area and found the defendant (who, by the way, did NOT commit the robbery they were investigating), and tried to stop him because he was black and had dark clothing on. He ran away. According to the court, the fact that he matched a very vague description was not enough for the police to stop in the first place, therefore, the fact that he ran was not evidence of any crime.

    Seems like sound judicial reasoning to me. People often state (correctly) that open carriers should not be stopped by police because open carrying is not an indication of criminality. Similarly, matching a very vague description of an assailant is also not an indication of criminality.

    • Now -Now, be nice…No reason to besmirch the name of Tom Brady and the New England Patriots. New England may have police, and political corruption. High taxes. Ever present crime—*(which is amazing since we have so many police…To busy “Pounding-On-Public”, or pop….If someone in blue has a bad day and gets a bad dunkaccino )* , and almost as many “illegal aliens ” as Texas, and Arizona. And we have ridiculously draconian “anti-2nd amendment gun control laws…” But , one bright spot….We have an excellent Football team–bar none !!!! And lot of you know it….Let’s take that to court and debate it !

  22. What if the courts gave ” Extra ” Rights or protections to WHITE people under the Law ? Of course it would be said to be racisss …. This will pass or fail on the idea of creating a special ‘ Class ‘ of citizen with extra civil rights.

    • Well, whites have had the benefit of the law and the benefit of juries of their peers for the history of the country…so you need to read up on history.

  23. The Communist in Chief in the Whitehouse has created this environment. Starting with Trayvon Martin, instead of urging calm and waiting for the justice system to work, he came out with inflammatory statements. And he has done that every time a black criminal has met his end through interacting with police. Never has he pointed out that white people are statistically more likely to be shot by police than blacks. He has embraced the criminal thug based Black Lives Matter. And now Hillary Clinton has picked up the same rush to judgement approach to bad things happening to black criminals (although in her case, it will disappear if she is elected, as now what she says is 100% pander.)

    I am absolutely not a fan of Donald Trump, but I will vote for him. Hillary Clinton appointing as many as three justices to the Supreme Court is the scariest thing I can think of. Continuing the law-creating Supreme Court and ultra liberal federal courts, will almost certainly be the end of America the Constitutional Republic.

    • “Never has he pointed out that white people are statistically more likely to be shot by police than blacks”

      You know there is a difference between percentage and total numbers, right? Pro-tip: statistical likelihood is measured with the former.


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