Rumors of why GLOCK lost out on the MHS contract to SIG have been circling the interwebs since SIG’s announcement. “No manual safety” was a popular guess, even after the .gov stated that the choice was primarily due to SIG’s proposal coming in about $100MM less expensive than GLOCK’s. Well, GLOCK recently released these photos of its MHS submission, which should lay the thumb safety rumor to bed…
The company submitted a GLOCK 19 MHS and a GLOCK 23 MHS, in 9×19 and .40 S&W, respectively. Interestingly enough, they actually appear to be hybrids of GLOCK’s compact (e.g. G19) slide and full-size (e.g. G17) frame. In the MHS-mandated non-reflective, neutral color, of course.
That frame appears to be a Gen4 frame with some modifications: no finger grooves, a lanyard loop, a flange that extends over the front of the magazine baseplate, and a shorter dust cover to match the length of the compact slide. And, yes, an ambidextrous manual safety and ambi slide stop.
Magazines are FDE versions of G17 mags, including some with what are likely +2 round capacity extensions (not pictured).
Word on the street is that GLOCK will not be offering these for sale to civilians or to government agencies. Which surprises me, honestly, as I’m sure they could sell the heck out of ’em. I sure jumped on the chance to get a rare CZ P-09 MHS.
I would totally buy that
Yeah that’s what I’m thinking. Glock, why not offer the goods? The gov turns you down and you go all “your modular handguns are belong to us!”
Glock is The new HK.
Because you suck, and we hate you.
might just not make enough sense to tool up and produce that thing without the security of having the lucrative .gov contract as a cushion.
The exact opposite of what I want in a carry gun. IWB means that short barrels are no easier to hide, and long grip frames are pointlessly hard to conceal. Need more ammo, carry a spare mag!
$100MM? Is that one hundred millimeters or millimillions?
I’m sorry. I have a finance background. It’s how we say “million” 😛
…FYI it’s because the roman numeral for 1,000 is M and two of ’em is a thousand thousand aka one million. So $100MM is one hundred million dollars… ca-ching!
You lost me on the MM thing too. I knew that M was 1000 Roman, but MM totally baffled me. Thanks for the explanation.
I don’t have a finance degree. But I can read a 10K. 10Q. P&L, and any other obfuscatory nonsense the guys with finance degrees dream up to hide the malfeasance…
Regardless. the “MM” thing has been the common parlance for “million” since at least the ’90s that I know, despite the fact it’s not actually “a thousand, thousand” in Roman numerals, “MM” is properly read as “two thousand”.
But it’s all part of the fun of a living language, and agreed/accepted usage.
While the Romans would have seen it as 2k, I could see a group using it to mean 1m in modern parlance. The amount of jargon that develops in any industry can be astounding. Something that needs to convey so much in tiny spaces, like finance, even more so.
Pretty sure “MM” = 2,000. I was a there, b!tch.
Millimeters would be mm. A capital “M” would be a “mega” or, as Jeremy said, 1,000x.
Just realized my brain-fart above. Of course “kilo” is 1,000x in the metric system. I was getting my basic French where the word “million” = 1,000 confused with… oh, who am I kidding. I’m talking out my ass now. Disregard this and my statement above, please.
Don’t we always? 🙂
Bummer. As soon as I saw it I thought “I might have to buy a Glock”. Guess not.
A few observations: (1) As seen in the forty, it’s settled once and for all that the G22, G23, & G27 were under weight,(2) For all the complaints brought by the grip, GLOCKS overall are remarkably compact guns. These aint. (3) I’m dying to see a side-by-side comparison… this is a radical departure for G! And last but not least, (4) Aiiii!!! What is it with the European fetish for short barrel duty guns!?!
Yeah it’s kinda funny. I’d sooner do a G17 slide on a G19 frame. You can always run extended mags (which was a requirement of the MHS to begin with) if you want higher capacity, and can put a grip extension on those mags if you need more hand space. Though 95% of dudes don’t have any issue finding a full spot for their pinky finger on a G19 grip.
Well, wait a sec, if this is supposed to be “Modular,” why wouldn’t slide/barrel swapping be a possibility?
Exactly. Just like people take a G19 and cut down the grip to fit G26 mags, and they can still run G19/G17 mags and extensions if they want. This is just ass-backwards. I think the G19 is probably one of the most popular handguns in the world (could not find actual sales #s since release), I don’t think the grip is an issue for most of the population.
Also, I’m a Glock guy, but these are just ugly as sin.
With you 100% Jeremy. After a long and hard winter I’m hoping to re-enter the land of the living with some TTAG reviews, one of which is to be a chopped G22 that took me months to wince and slice the poly. I’ve found that most of my non-Glock friends still enjoy the 19/23/32/38 frame while the longer slide offers ideal handling.
Why the Army wants a compact or even a barrel length under 5″ for duty carry is utterly beyond my comprehension… a nine will never be an ideal combat caliber out of a 4″ gun. Given the right powder, that’s a difference between 390 and 475 foot lbs with a well-crafted 115-125gr load. Perhaps the armed forces are going the 147gr route.
What I find most revealing in the whole photo shoot, however, is that fat .40 cal slide. I’ve got some words for GLOCK and what they did to the poor caliber, but will save those for another time.
“short barrel” less scary?
Looks good, where do I send the check?
Bullshit glock ain’t going to sell those to other agencies and civilians. Unless they’ve made all the money they wanted to.
They’ve won’t sell these MHS models to civilian and government agencies. However, pay no attention to the striking similarities between the MHS and Gen 5, the latter of which will be sold.
I’m shocked that this overpriced turd didn’t win. I think I’m gonna throw up…
No locking block pin?
Back to the Gen2 style with a single pin there instead of two. It’s interesting, indeed. The lack of finger grooves is Gen2 style, too.
Maybe going FORWARD to the Glock 42/43 design?
The extra pin is necessary for the .45 and 10mms, not really for 9mm.
Honestly, they look like plastic squirt guns.
Goddam it. I’ve been looking for a Gen 2 G19 for ages because the goddam finger grooves in the Gen 3/4 are in the wrong place. Now you tell me Glock has a model without the damn grooves, and isn’t going to bring it to market?
Hey, GLOCK™! Are you trying to get me to buy another Sig? Keep this crap up and I’ll go get a 320. Not kidding.
Been thinking about selling my Glock 19 Gen 2, for a CZ P10c . The CZ doesn’t have finger grooves.
Other than the typical “can’t match the slide color tot he frame BS” that may be the best looking Glock I have ever seen.
Those guessing Glock didn’t put a manual (thumb) safety on it’s Military submission are probably some of the same guys that guessed the Springfield Saint was going to be a clothing line.
Awesome! Except for the manual safety. I’d buy one (without manual safety lever).
Yup, that’s a Glock. With a manual safety.
Maybe if there was word they’d actually improved the trigger and sights, there might be something to talk about.
Nah, it’s still just a Glock. I’ll never understand the fanaticism.
Gluck, IPOD, Yahoo, warm milk, training wheels.
If you look up the word “afterthought” in the dictionary, there’s a picture of that safety.
Ever since I first saw that color described as “desert diarrhea,” I’ve never been able to un-see how apt that name is.
I really don’t see the point in putting a 19 length barrel/slide on a 17 frame. The 19 frame probably fits a wider range of hand sizes. And if you are going to go with a 17 size frame, why bother reducing the barrel length?
WOW! It looks so amazing! Cutting-edge technology and design, superior ergonomics and stylish looks. 😀
I guess you guys never heard of the commander sized 1911. As far as i see the only thing u cant get from lonewolf ( or some of the other glock aftermarket part and service companies) on that glock is the amb safety. You could have lonewolf build u that gun sans ambi safety for around a dime. 350 for glock 22 police trade. Saftey part and install 150, conversion 4 inch slide for full size frame 300 ish. Frame finger groove removal 150 ish, cerakote 100. Remember the single stack glock 380 and 9mm? They got to the market just at least 5 years after everyone else. This pistol will get made, glock will just take there sweet time getting around to it.
I am not a Glock guy so excuse the question. So what exactly makes these modular. I have a SIG P320 and I can clearly see where this is modular in which the fire control system can be removed and put in another frame or change barrels, etc.
It looks like they tried to put lipstick on a pig to try to win the competition and failed.
You are entirely correct. This is exactly what most of the non-fanboys suggested Glock had done. Minor changes to one of their existing guns and what they thought was a low price. Even Remington did a better job of being ‘modular’ with the RP9. I can pull the trigger module (the firearm) out of an RP9 by pulling the takedown lever out and removing one pin.
Most of the “modular” requirements focused on being able to vary the grip size and having an ambidextrous gun or being able to make it such in the field. Plus being able to swap “uppers” for suppressed use. The GLOCK was argued to meet those conditions with the interchangeable backstraps, ambi slide stop, magazine release that can be swapped to the other side (though I don’t think it’s particularly easy to do “in the field”), and the fact that you could easily pop a different slide on top with a threaded barrel and tall sights.
The Army’s statement as to why SIG won pretty much said that despite equivalent technical ratings on the firearms themselves, SIG’s offer was $100 million less expensive so they went SIG. Actually, the exact language from their statement was “proposals were technically proximate and the protestor’s [Glock’s] proposed price was substantially higher than the awardee’s price.” SIG also beat GLOCK out by providing better licensing rights and having a better ammunition production/manufacturing plan. And they got a “good” for ergonomics whereas Glock scored “acceptable.”
…but it was $170MM Sig vs. $272MM Glock. So a HUGE price difference.
My two biggest complaints with Glocks have always been the grip angle and the finger grooves. I was able to train around the grip angle, though it was still a departure from my natural point of aim. However, the finger grooves were always uncomfortable for me. Glock brings a lot to the table for a duty/combat/ccw platform; reliability, best in class compactness-for-capacity, truly differentiated frame sizes with interchangeable mags, etc., etc. Were it not for those finger grooves, I could overlook the grip angle and I would still be carrying Glock today. However, I switched to the P320 platform and have zero comfort complaints. Yes, they aren’t nearly as compact as the Glocks, but they are compact enough (comfort is more important for me than conceal-ability…I carry a Kahr CM9 most of the time anyway, so I don’t do much concealing with my duty-sized guns). All that said, I do like the look of this MHS entry, sans the color and thumb safety.
They are all Junk. buy American, whoops America doesn’t make anything any more except assembled in America from Chinese, South Korea, Japan , Vietnam, Pakistan, India, Indonesia Parts:
even then Americans are so reluctant to work for a living they have a hard time finding assemblers except for illegals.
I kinda doubt Ruger, FN,Sig, as well as Glock and many other gun manufacturers here in the states use “Chinese parts assembled in America” on their guns.
And when America tries to make a polymer pistol, they more often than not turn out to be huge hunks of shit (S&W M&P, Remington RP9)
I’ve said it before and I guess I’ll say it again Glock is a bunch of morons for missing out on this contract. Had they gone with more a 45 John Moses Browning grip angle and all the extra goodies that they added in for the so-called modular handgun system they probably would have won. In my honest opinion Sig Sauer and their quality has flown the coop. Of course they were able to come in a lot cheaper their guns are made a lot cheaper. Now I know I’m going to get a bunch of sick people yelling and screaming but I really don’t care. I’ve been around long enough to see the quality that cig put out when they were in West Germany to the Quality they put out in America from New Hampshire and it’s not even close. They are living off of the name Sig Sauer in that new P320 piece of garbage please. I would much rather carry a Beretta M9 any day of the week then a Sig Sauer anything. The seals have almost stopped using them completely because of the problems they’ve had with their so-called P226 firing suppressed. What a joke when I was over in Iraq and then later in Afghanistan I got to see firsthand what a P226 will do with a suppressor on it and a little sand in it explode. Not interested in anything Sig Sauer all junk.
Remember the 80s when it was Sig v Beretta? Rumor had it that the Sig quote leaked, Beretta underbid them, and Beretta won the contract.
It’s great to show contempt for your audience! Just ask Michael Bay!
~Mr Plinkett (Red Letter Media)
The 1st GLOCK I would buy-that wasn’t a LEO turn in?
I would buy the hell out of the reverse of this – give me a G19 grip with no finger grooves, a G17 slide, and obviously ditch the manual safety.
Release it as the G19L and it would fly off the shelves.
On grip angle: it points better at full extension and under stress one-handed. (stuff we learned and applied to the 1911A1 after WWI).
On grip size: plenty of folks under stress will grab the gun without taking up all the space between the beavertail. Look at the Castile video. The full-size grip is more tolerant of this.
Everyone assumed that Glock’s MHS gun was a G17. It’s a surprise to see the shorter slide on it, whereas the frame is what was expected (at least on size).
The short slide gets me too. My best guesses are that the draw requires less clearance, it might ride more comfortably on the belt in vehicles, and on a chest rig it will take up slightly less space. Some folks also find the shorter sight radius easier to use. Best guesses…
I just want the frame. In black, of course. I’ll keep it and my original G19 parts and I’ll play Barbie dress up with it.
Well there’s your proof that the Glock they submitted was garbage. That manual safety was so bad they didn’t even want to bring it to market even after they already had one designed for this program. You don’t spend serious money on a redesigning something like that and not bring it to market. The lack of a traditional safety has always been a sticking point for a lot of people. No mater how many internet ‘experts’ try to convince you that it isn’t.
If that actually worked, they would have sold it. The Gaston family likes money far too much for them not to. But it’s obvious that it didn’t, so they won’t be sold.
My guess is they spent money on the design, but do not want to spent the money on the retooling for mass production of the design without a large commitment for orders.
Pure speculation, but logical.
I’d have rejected it because it has a glock rail on the bottom instead of a proper 1913.
This is a valid point! There was a limited production Glock with a standard rail on the frame. Can’t remember what/when it was though. Yeah, surprised to see this one with a Glock rail, too.
I wonder why they couldn’t make the manual safety ambi without the big external lever on the right side. I don’t like the looks of that. Ruger managed to avoid that on the SR series, but Glock couldn’t?
Don’t have a Glock. Don’t want a Glock.
It’s time for Glock to accept the fact they didn’t get the contract and just move on.
I notice they even added the little cutout just behind the front slide lugs on the other side of the slide so you can roll it onto the frame in the correct way instead of just sliding it straight on from the front. I don’t think the manual safety is necessary for the civilian market, I think people would probably shy away from that model, but it doesn’t look too pretty anyway. The ambi slide lock, though, that’s something I’m sure people would like to see on a Glock. This should be the Gen 5, smooth grip and ambi slide lock, and call it done.
Why do I not have this pistol on my hip this morning? What travesty of justice has made it so that an armed professional like myself who has been using Glocks since the early 90s cannot go into the police supply and plop down my letterhead /ID/credit card and walk out with this handgun that addresses all of my needs & wants(other than color)?
Glock, stop screwing around and give us what we want! Yeah I see the M/Gen5 models but take it a step further and just give us ALL of the upgrades as options.
If this pistol was black(uniform requirement) & had front serrations I’d happily pay $800+ for it. Dedicated Glock users who have been carrying Glocks for 1-3 decades would pay the money.
Just unclench your anvil tight Austrian sphincters and let it happen!