Just days after the mall shooting in Oregon, there’s breaking news that there has been an incident at a school on the other side of the country. CNN is reporting (and BBC confirms) that one person (the shooter) is dead at a shooting at the Sandy Hook Elementary School near Newtown, CT and three people have been rushed to a local hospital.
Latest reports indicate that the principal was the target of the attack, an adult was the shooter and two handguns were recovered at the scene. The most recent count lists eight adults and eighteen students dead in addition to the shooter.
Connecticut is a “may issue” permit state for concealed carry, but licenses are required to purchase handguns in the state. As with all schools, the elementary school in question is a “gun free zone.” More information as it becomes available.
can’t be. gun free zone. nothing bad EVER happens in a gun free zone.
“BEIJING — A knife-wielding man slashed 22 children and an adult at an elementary school in central China on Friday, state media reported, the latest in a series of attacks on children in the country.”
— True. China is a ‘gun-free-zone’ and nothing bad happens there (sarcasm off).
22 children wounded with a knife
27 people KILLED with a gun.
Truly, aharon’s logic is astounding
while the “hurr durr, gun free zone!” shouts make some sense when talking about malls, cinemas etc which tend to be packed with people who could legally carry a gun, how does that make a shred of sense when talking about a school? Do you want to send your kinder-gardener to class packing a glock?
Hell no. A Glock is far to large for a Kindergarten student to successfully operate. A Beretta .22…. maybe.
No, but I would be willing to allow teachers and other school employees with carry permits to carry concealed weapons in those schools.
That Active Shooter class RF and the Rabbi did a few months back would be seem to be to perfect for an armed teacher.
I’ll bet you a sixpack that you’ll have a hard time finding teachers with carry permits, let alone having the majority or all of them carrying a gun.
If it were legal, my wife would absolutely have carried to, in, and from school. Problem was that having a P2000 in the car did not help her at all during the walk from the school to the car. Anytime teachers worked after dusk at the school, the faculty always walked out in groups of 2-3 at least in that neighborhood.
Its called having a teacher carry his or her Glock to school.
And before “you can’t let a teacher carry a gun into a school! They might shoot some kids for getting F’s!” I have this to say:
Honestly, if you do not trust your kid’s teacher to not brutally murder your children if they carry a gun, then you shouldn’t be sending your kids to that school in the first place.
There are adults at the schools–principal/vprincipal, teachers, janitors, parent volunteers, librarian. In fact, I know a couple of retired LEOs and some ex-military types who now teach in elementary schools.
Shootings at Columbine, Virginia Tech, Aurora CO theater, Oregon mall, and now a Connecticut grade school; all represent wonderful success stories for Gun Free Zones! (Which are apparently designed to make it easy for nut cases to kill unarmed people.)
We can spin the gun free zone stuff all we want, but this one is going to be bad. Twenty plus dead, mostly children. What a senseless tragedy. This is the one the grabbers have been waiting for. Batten down the 2A hatches boys. My condolences to the victims, the families and the witnessing children.
I’ve said it before, every time something like this happens it makes me wonder if it’s a plant from the gun grabbers. They’re batshit crazy enough to murder innocent people “for the greater good”.
Damn, is there something in the water lately?
Possibly the holiday season for some. It’s supposed to be a time of joy, celebration, warmth, family, friends, good cheer, gifts, food, caring, love, security, comfort, etc. I think some people feel it, even more so than the rest of the year, that their life and society are lacking what life is ‘supposed’ to be about. Modern society can be stressful and frightening often lacking the traditional support systems such as the nuclear family, extended family group, etc.
I could be wrong, but I think most suicides happen around Christmas time. I guess some idiots want to take other people with them.
I think you are correct about. Otherwise, one in six male suicides occur during the divorce process.
Sometimes I wonder if there’s some Stasi-like government involvement in some of these incidents. Am I being a little too paranoid, given the evil covert **** that we know governments have done successfully in the past?
Copy cat situations fueled by the media.
Nothing in the water. Apparently to some wackos thinks that nothing says Merry Christmas quite like shooting it up at an elementary school.
I would not trust teachers or administrators to carry concealed but might trust the coaches of both genders.
No offense to teachers met, just different era than when I was in school.
Back then, only people going hunting after school had guns on the grounds.
My condolences to anyone whose kids are at the scene.
As for the rest of us, its time to start googling our congresscritters’ phone numbers and office addresses. We’ll need them if anyone got killed there today.
Delving into the Facebook based comments under news articles is not usually for the faint of heart. (Incidentally, many sites went to Facebook based commenting for two reasons: first, it’s easier for everyone involved, and second, the belief that forcing some sort of “personal identification” to go with comments would encourage people to be more civil to one another. It has succeeded on the first part, and failed mightily on the second.)
Anyway, I thought this comment, from one Jake Harvey, summed it up perfectly: “Like all “Gun Free Zones”, schools are an easy target. Of course, the natural reaction to this will be to somehow try to make schools even more “free of guns”, by further restricting the rights of gun owners who aren’t going anywhere near schools.”
If we could just eliminate guns from society, we could stop horrible events like this.
Or NOT. A man in China harmed 22 children with a knife today at a school.
Serious question somewhat but not completely related:
Obviously the surest way to save your skin during a crime in progress is having the ability to respond to it, hence carrying a gun, and obviously most criminals fear getting shot more than getting caught, so if carry was more ubiquitous it would curb violence.
But at the same time, is there some way to inhibit illegal access to guns which would not affect legal access (which I would consider unethical because hoops to access disproportionately affect those who need the access to self-defense the most)? NOT gun control, crime control. Now obviously this wouldn’t have any bearing on true first offense out of the blue crazies but they are not statistically significant. I’m talking about some way to crack down on straw buyers or more quickly recover stolen guns? Boots on the ground (how many cops do you want to pay for, or do you just redirect their efforts)? Analyzing purchasing statistics (is this a privacy issue)? Or NICS for rifle transfers/purchases where not already required? I somehow think most effective is awareness of proper gun storage and safety (promoted by the gun culture all by itself with no help from outside) has had the biggest effect on reducing accidents and stolen guns.
I’m not pushing anything, these are just open questions for debate. I’m simply interested in arguments for or against.
2 deaths so far (according to WTNH twitter feed). The principal and the gunman. Prayers and thoughts go out for the principals family.
Jeff Snyder put it best, I think of this comment everytime one of these shootings happen:
“To ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the innocent and law-abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless, and that the law will permit them to have only such rights and liberties as the lawless will allow… For society does not control crime, ever, by forcing the law-abiding to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of criminals. Society controls crime by forcing the criminals to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of the law-abiding.”
We hear it on a DAILY basis here in Chi-town, but like anything else you hear every day for years: it quickly becomes part of the background noise. Sad but true. (oops…response to GS650Gs comment below. This quote is awesome, BTW!)
Funny how we don’t hear much about gang violence in Chicago on a weekly basis, unless it’s tied to a gun ban story.
Schools are highly advertised Free-Victim-Zones.
Every attenion seeking nut job is steered towards a building full of helpless sheeple
Somebody did something bad so we need to preemptively strip innocent people of their right to life, liberty and property to ensure bad people can’t do bad things like this again. Then schools need to be made double secret gun free zones.
Jermey’s dad just spoke in class today…..
Might want to edit the title of this post. There are conflicting reports on the number of casualties.
Damn!! When are these ignorant asshats going to learn and realize that our kids are worth more than some stupid gun control law??!!
They don’t seem to care or give a shit about the teachers and kids as long as their precious laws are in place!!!
I would be willing to bet that it would be no different if it was a school that their kids were in. They would,as normal, just yell and scream and wring their hands wanting more gun control laws!!!
I wish it were possible for every parent in this country to take their kids out of school and keep them out until the schools are allowed to have concealed carry at every school!!
Hell if they would do it I would be first in line here to quit my current job and hire on as a Security Guard at our local school!!
I know it will probably never change and many would say I am just being over reactive but to me our kids are worth a hell of a lot more than some stupid ass politicians hoplophobia based laws simply designed to make them “Feel Good About Themselves”!!
I hope and pray no kids were hurt and our prayers and condolences to the Principals Family.
“Initial reports indicate many children were shot”
Initial reports are almost always exaggerated especially by the mass media. Sensationalism sells. Today is a good day for MSNBC err now called NBCNews and CNN.
At least a dozen dead, confirmed through local and federal law enforcement. ATF has recovered multiple firearms…
Hopefully local and federal law enforcement are completely wrong and its just the shooter.
Edit: Could be wrong, that website is saying its confirmed through ABCnews by local and federal police, whereas ABCnews just saids there are reports of a dozen dead.
Thanks! Just before I commented NBCNEWS posted that three people were taken to the hospital. I thought that was it.
As of this story, 6 minutes ago, CBS news is reporting 27 dead, including 14 children. I hope to all that is good and holy that they’re incorrect.
Other outlets, including CNN, are still only saying one or two, including the gunman.
I’m getting “Manchurian Candidate” vibes. “Copycat” is possible and viable, as someone else suggested, but a few more of these spree killings is going to have the Public screaming for worse than an AWB and the occupant of the White House will not hesitate to capitalize on the opportunity to push his popular vote options well over 50% by obliging the outcry. He’s going to contrive for a third term, or the election of his hand-picked surrogate, and will move at every opportunity to insure he has the votes.
My God, now CNN is saying it’s possible that as many a 20 children have been shot by two gunmen, in addition to the Principal and Asst. Principal. This is very bad!
My sincere condolences to all victims and their families and the many children and teachers who have been traumatized by this nightmare.
It’s worse. 10 dead children reported plus the Principal, Asst. Principal and one of the two killers (the other has been captured). Total reported as 14 dead and 13 injured, as of now. This is very, very, very BAD!!!!
You really ought to establish facts before publishing pure speculation. Your headline bears no relation to what others are reporting.
Dude, this was posted about 3 hours ago. Right after it happened. Like, within minutes of it being reported it was here. Expect facts to change in this kind of situation. No need to be mean to foghorn for reporters reporting reports that aren’t 100% correct at the time.
I stand by my comment.
It’s breaking news, and breaking news changes. If you want to stand by being wrong, that’ll be a lonely place in these parts.
Yeah, I was watching CNN about three hours back and there was no indication at that time how bad this situation is, so NL’s headline was accurate at the time he posted this.
Well. I’m sure they will probably change the title eventually, or update the story with a new post.
Think about it, Foghorn, Farago, and other TTAG writers live or lived in the New England area. I really doubt “oh no the title is wrong now!” is on the top of their heads at the moment.
The actual article has already been updated at least once.
At the moment there is only one hard fact that every news article I’ve read from agree on, that 3 people went to the hospital, and the shooter is dead.
Reports now of 20 dead, 10 children. What the hell is wrong with people.
27 dead (18 children) according to the Blaze.
CNN’s live stream can be found here: http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/cvplive/cvpstream2&hpt=hp_t1
Nothing being said yet as of this writing; still people just setting up the microphone stand.
In a sorta amusing note, some of the people use clips, many just tape their mics to the stand with gaffer tape. The AM800 WLAD mic on the right has fallen twice when the tape came loose, and the NBC News mic on the far left is simply precariously balanced on the two underneath it.
CNN Live Stream is going now, at the address above.
Yet another reason to homeschool…..
This is the wisest comment on the Internet today.
I bet we’ll see gun control front and center after the budget deal is hammered out.
Count on it. They will take it right on.
You guys are assholes. 27 people dead and that’s all you can think about?
You don’t think Diane Feinstein is contemplating an opportunity at the moment?
Dunblane II. At least, anti-gun folks would hope it would turn out that way.
When there were attacks on Israeli schools, namely the Ma’alot massacre in 1974, the Israelis started arming teachers and letting parents stand voluntary armed guard. There have been a lot of attacks in Israel since then. I haven’t heard of another attack at a school, there was one incident where a Jordanian border guard shot seven schoolgirls in 1997 but it wasn’t at a school.
We know how to harden targets. We know how to protect people, and at least raise the cost of this kind of violence to the point where other places are chosen for venues, yet the same wrong solutions are always advanced.
Hey, let’s start by disarming the Secret Service. It would be a good example, don’t you think?
Always wonder with these incidents if it provides the tipping point for POTUS to start his gun control program. Terrible tragedy. Plus let’s point out that apparently it happened right next door to a fire station and possibly police. The adage of “when seconds count….” dearly applies here.
“Always wonder with these incidents if it provides the tipping point…”
Yeah, regardless of the shooter’s motivation, the legality of his weapon ownership, or any other factors, I could easily see this as being something that causes “our side” serious problems. When children get involved, all rational thought goes out the window.
Many people are talking again about gun control. But White House spokesman Jay Carney isn’t joining in for now.
That is the first time Jay Carney has said something that I agree with.
Fox news says ” a glock and a sig handgun both capable of holding large amounts of ammunition”
here we go……
The news is saying the Glock and Sig 9mm handguns are nothing out of the ordinary, very common handguns. You know what that means. Forget an AWB, we gotta get ALL of them.
Now isn’t the time to debate gun control ramifications, though I’m sure the Brady people will be using coffins as soap boxes soon. Now is the time to pray for the families that have lost children, and for the children who have survived and will unsee what they’ve seen today. I can’t even imagine their pain.
My thoughts go out to them. I don’t know what else I can do or say at this point.
Respectfully LTC F: I can multi-task: grieve and think of consequences at the same time. This is going to be bad, for everyone but the gun grabbers.
Heard the shooter was from New Jersey, so how the heck did he get 2 guns? Doesn’t New Jersey make it incredibly hard to get any gun? Not just handguns?
“The gunman, who is dead, was a 20-year-old from Connecticut, an official said. He was wearing all black and was carrying two 9mm handguns.”
Going on the basis (for now) that the above information is true I want to know what the common denominators are or rather the motivations are for Why young men take such actions. Yes, I know some are nuts or whatever. Yet, something else is going on. I’m trying to dig deeper than just blaming it on a gun or a biologically crazy person of which some shooters are. Emotionally, what are they moving away from and what are they moving towards?
From? Anger. Resentment. Helplessness.
To? Power. Control. Death.
If the kid is in CT and daddy is in NJ it would suggest divorce. Divorce is bad enough without blaming mass public shootings on it and I’m not going to do that, but it is one of the things short of full-blown psychosis that can generate the level of anger, resentment, loss and helplessness that can make people unequipped to handle those kinds of emotions to do monstrous things.
Also, if the shooter was actually the father of a student and actually 20 years old, this would pretty much by definition be a teenage father. You can pretty much square the level of being unable to deal with things at that point.
More information will come out, but there’s going to be no “understanding” of this. This kind of behavior is not understandable. I cannot conceive of a justifiable reason to shoot children. That’s the kind of thing that made SS troops in WW II go over the edge. It takes a special kind of asshole to think that is the only option they have.
What is understandable is that in a place like a school the only thing that can stop a rampage like this is someone ELSE with a firearm. And the bad guys will usually have first-mover advantage.
@Aahron…my opinion only, but I think a large part of this is the fact that young men are coming into adulthood with too much handholding and are starkly unprepared to assume their place as an adult in our society.
This, coupled with the poor economy and lack of any job prospects, either due to economic factors alone or because of their own doing, many young men can feel like they are in a tailspin with no hope. They are crying for attention, have been ignored/discarded for too long, and at the end, this is their answer to get the attention that they want/need.
While I will never condone murder (which is what this was), I see where one can be led to believe this is an appropriate exit from mortal shackles. I see the enabling factor as a complete loss of faith/hope that things will get better.
I am reminded of a poker author, by the name of David Sklansky, who observed that the one place he knows of where there is no race hatred and everyone gets along in a peaceful manner is at the games tables of casinos. He stated that it was his belief that this was due to the idea that everyone came to the table feeling that they would get a fair shake, that no one would be advantaged through circumstances external to themselves.
I feel that this is the principal that we must return to, the perception that every person has an equal opportunity to succeed. In the current day, it is observable to our youth that the future is grim, and the odds are stacked against all but a priviledged few to get ahead and make a reasonable living and a life. In the face of such a scenario, it is wholly understandable why less of the youth vote goes to conservatives and why they can feel that there is little hope.
Most people have a sufficient moral compass to not do intentional harm to others, but with the decline of religion and personal responsibility, it is not inconceivable that a few will feel the need to use such a forum (e.g. school massacre) to make their statement.
The problem is systemic, and the solution must also be systemic. The more we bankrupt this nation with policies of handouts and easy money, the more that we will kindle these kinds of fire. And when we say in the same breath that more gun control is needed, we fan the flames even more.
Brace yourself, I fear this is only the beginning…
Reporters are interviewing children and asking them if they heard the gun shots. There is seriously a little girl on f*cking TV right now and a f*cking reporter just asked her if she heard gunshots where her friends might have just died.
What. The. Flying. F*CK!
A news organization that interviews my child on TV without my permission is going to see a big fat lawsuit so fast it’ll make their heads spin! Journalistic integrity is long gone.
That’s the worse flipping part, the mother and father were RIGHT THERE ALLOWING IT TO HAPPEN.
Another kid just got interviewed, a boy this time, still young enough that his words have a lisp and he literally looks like hes 8 or 9.
I know you’ll think it’s tinfoil but this makes no seance. The shooter as of now is id’d as the father of one of the students (don’t know if he shot his own kid, but doubtful). another mysterious suspected second gun man. Sounds like the Batman shooting. Well, God rest all souls lost but if the MSM missed the Mall shooting this will turn the gun grabbers up to 11 on a 1 to 10 scale. Too convenient. Watch for some slick gun control (via executive order) over the holidays or attached to the “Salvation from the Fiscal Cliff” legislation. I suggest you put your cups on gentlemen, we’re in for some real trouble.
“Watch for some slick gun control … attached to the “Salvation from the Fiscal Cliff” legislation.”
Sammy, I know I’ve accused you of paranoia in the past, but this is one I can totally see happening. That’s how they get other “bad” bills passed, after all, by attaching them to other “must pass” things like defense appropriations bills.
now saying 2 shooters!?
The next gun control laws won’t be about banning sales or limiting features, it’s going to be about possession. All that remains is to turn 70 million people into instant criminals by banning what they own.
As of 1:20cst it was reported to be 18 kids, 10 and under, dead plus the adults, and they are saying that the shooter(s) had a .223 rifle.
My GF just called and was telling me this, while reading it on a news website on the Net!!
I would fully expect that some type of Executive Order will hit us hard before the Christmas Holidays are over, if not a whole lot sooner.
@Heisenberg…Assholes?? Really?? I can bet you right here and now that every reader on here is grieving and hurting because of what has happened!! I am still wiping tears out of my eyes. But we are humans, we hurt and cry for the victims and the families and we pray as hard as we can for them, but at the same time we all know and can see what is probably coming, and I don’t know about you, but as for me it scares the hell out of me to think of the ban’s and restrictions that the liberals and Anti’s are going to be pushing at us.
They won’t do anything to stop these types of tragedies at all. They will only facilitate it happening more based on the fact that they will not be calling for more security and for allowing law abiding citizens,(parents,teachers,school officials), to carry in schools, malls etc but instead will be all for banning weapons ownership by private citizens.
It is just my opinion but every reporter, politician and anti gun person who uses this tragedy to promote stricter laws, stricter regulations and who call for the banning of firearms by law abiding citizens should have their ass whipped severely and repeatedly!!!
These reporters that are interviewing these poor kids right now really need their heads beat on!! That is just absolutely wrong and heartless!! Cold blooded bastards!!!
Dont forget CT has there own Assault Weapons ban and mag ban too.