The National Firearms Act of 1934 is possibly the most outdated body of firearms regulations in the United States. There, I said it. And I stand by it. The improved shooting experience of using a silencer notwithstanding, the rules and regulations surrounding short barreled rifles (SBRs) is downright criminal. I was never a fence-sitter on the issue, but having the PWS MK 107 AR Pistol in my grubby mitts for a few months has done more to convince me of the asininity of the regulations imposed on the citizens of this fine country than anything else has. Truth be told, I never really understood the appeal of SBRs until PWS put this gun in my hands. It’s a very effective tool and a downright blast to shoot and here’s why . . .
Before I get into the meat and potatoes, though, let me give you a peak behind the curtain for a minute. We’ve already covered how gun reviews work at the dead tree mags. TL;DR: Pay to play and don’t say anything bad. See Remington R51 coverage for further proof. Here at TTAG, and really any other “new media” outlet, we usually have to shamelessly beg and plead to get guns to test. And we can usually tell how a gun review is going to go based on how the media reps for a company communicate with us. If they impose a series of restrictions about ammo selection, conditions of use, etc., the gun is likely going to have some issues.
That’s not Primary Weapons Systems. First, they hand over the goods with no conditions. I’m paraphrasing, but the message is fairly clear. “Shoot whatever ammo you want, as much as you want. Beat it up. Our guns run all the time, every time.” PWS does a great deal of testing internally including multi thousand round strings of fire with no cleaning or maintenance, and machine gun runs to keep things lively. Suffice it to say, nothing I’m going to do is going to be more strenuous than what they do internally. A point of view I challenged to the best of my abilities during this test.
Then, they have the patience of Job. If you go back through the archives, we first received this gun in February 2014. Chris Dumm was originally slated to test it, but his day job has kept him extraordinarily busy. He was only able to get to the range a few times before his world got so busy that finding keyboard time was nearly impossible. So he sent it my way the week before my wife and I bought our first house, an event which destroyed my free time and ammo budget. So getting a review of this gun has taken two authors and the better part of five months. To to PWS, we extend our apologies. This has taken too long and we’re sorry.
When Chris mailed the MK107 off to me, he sent me the following note.
Direct-impingement AR pistols are usually really picky with ammo; the gas systems are usually overpressured because they have to harness the same amount of gas in a much shorter amount of time. As a result their timing is very critical (and frequently off) and they beat the crap out of themselves.
The PWS is a totally different animal with its piston system. It was totally reliable with 200 rounds of mixed milsurp, Remington Green Box, and steel Tulammo. I couldn’t do accuracy testing because my local range doesn’t allow ANY AR-based pistols or AK-based pistols either. Too many morons have put rounds over the top of the berm with them at 100 yards, I think.
The velocity loss is also pretty bad with a super-short barrel. I didn’t get to chrono it, but 7.5″ ARs get 2100-2300 fps instead of the 3000-3100 you’ll get from a 16″-18″ barrel. Small bullets need high velocity to perform well, and when the little 5.56 bullet sacrifices 25% of its velocity for a short barrel length, it also loses nearly half its energy.
From really short barrels, the 5.56 stops acting like a rifle cartridge and starts to behave more like a 5.7.
Even with the SIG brace, an AR pistol isn’t exactly the most comfortable instrument ever devised. It’s WAY better than propping the buffer tube against your face, but it’s no Magpul CTR.
This is the only AR pistol I would ever own, but it still just doesn’t speak to me. It is a lot of fun, though, and I hope you have a ball with it!
The PWS MK107 Pistol is an AR 15 platform pistol platform sporting a 7.5 inch 1:8 twist barrel chambered in .223 Wylde. This particular gun features the SIG Brace, otherwise known as the poor man’s SBR kit. Using the brace as intended means strapping it to your forearm for additional support. The unintended usage (wink, wink) is to slot the brace in your shoulder pocket and use it like a rifle stock. Not that anyone would ever do such a thing.
This pistol also features PWS’s proprietary piston design with 4-position gas system. Said system includes settings for suppressed and unsuppressed firing with standard and “hot” loads. It also features a fifth setting to be used for annual maintenance of the gas system.
Story time re: that gas system. This gun arrived at my FFL very well used. The barrel was dirty, but the insides were clean. Chris seemed to take PWS at their word when it came to ammo selection and I know his note said “mixed,” but I’m pretty sure he used a few rounds of Remington Greenbox, and the rest was TulAmmo. This gun appeared to have been eating dirty steel-cased Russian 5.56 for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
I didn’t clean it when it arrived either, so my first range trip took a disastrous turn when I tried to adjust the gas system to see how the various positions affected performance. I maintained at the time that carbon buildup around the gas system prevented me from switching it from the “X” position (used to disassemble the system) to any of the four production systems. I can also be an impatient idiot. In a spectacular combination of “What’s the worst that could happen?” and “Hold my beer and watch this!” I decided to let off a round with the valve turned to the X position.
To this day, I’m unsure of my logic, but the end result was watching a spray of parts fly out the front of the gun followed by a great deal of four letter expletives from the operator behind the gun. Remember the patience of Job thing I mentioned earlier? Well imagine my surprise when PWS’s response to me field stripping the gas system of their fancy gun with force was to send me replacement parts and ask if I needed another copy of the manual. No further questions asked.
I took the opportunity when reassembling the gas system to really clean the area around the gas system as it had a pretty good amount of built up carbon. I had originally assumed that carbon build-up prevented me from turning the valve from X to any of the four production settings. Once cleaned up, I still found the valve to be very hard to turn from the X setting. It requires a cleaning rod or other sturdy implement and a little bit of leverage to accomplish. It isn’t exactly tool-less in my experience, but I feel that most people don’t suddenly find themselves going from standard pressure loads to hot loads with a silencer. Your mileage might vary.
Destructive attempts completed, I found the gun (with all the parts back in place) to be dead-nuts reliable. I ran PMC bronze, XM 193, a bag of random 5.56 I found, Liberty, as well as some Black Hills 60 gr. V-Max. I’m not exactly sure how many rounds Chris put through it (it was a lot, based on the accumulated gunk), but I ran a few hundred with no failures. The gas system is so consistent that standing in one place and shooting makes for a neat little pile of brass for later pickup.
Since an adjustable piston system is basically witchcraft to me, I was also curious to see if changing the gas system setting would affect muzzle velocity. That’s probably a silly question, but I had ammo, a chrony, and a gun so double checking wasn’t hard. And no, gas system position doesn’t affect muzzle velocity. I did however find that position 4, the most restricted setting used for hot loads with a silencer, does mean short-stroking that leads to failures to chamber a new round. Open it up to position 1 (wide open), and those problems disappear.
Aesthetically, the PWS pistol is one of the better looking AR pistols out there. The machining work is flawless to my eyes, and everything fits together very well. With the exception of some commonly available items, PWS manufactures all of their parts in house. The only third party gear I could find was the SIG Brace, a BCM Gunfighter charging handle, and Magpul grip & BUIS.
Their barrels arrive at the shop as rifled blanks, which are then cut, chambered, contoured, and threaded in house. This level of control over the manufacturing process allows PWS to maintain a very high level of quality. The handguard is a free floated, keymod affair that attaches via 6 screws to the barrel nut. The top is all Picatinny rail and Picatinny, QD, and bipod keymod mounts are available from PWS. This particular pistol shipped with a tactical tan SIG Brace and Magpul BUIS. The whole package weighs in around six pounds on the dot, 6.004 lbs to be exact.
The gun feels very well thought out and balances extraordinarily well with the center of gravity slightly rearward of the mag well. I found the SIG Brace to be much more useful than a traditional padded buffer tube that you see on today’s AR pistol. Strapping it on made me feel a bit like a futuristic gun-wielding robot. A RoboCop costume is approved for purchase, so be on the lookout for a video making my dreams a reality.
The only way to get a two-handed grip while using the brace as intended is to extend both hands fully which makes using Magpul’s BUIS impossible. And while it’s only six pounds, that’s still a lot of weight to hang out there at arm’s length. Using the brace as a stock, though, the gun is a VERY maneuverable, and extremely lightweight pseudo rifle. It’s amazing what chopping a few pounds (and 9 inches) of barrel, gas system, and handguard off a heavy-barreled carbine-length AR 15 can net you.
There’s still something to be said for a true SBR — namely adult-sized length of pull — but if you live in a state that disallows SBRs or you’re in ATF purgatory waiting on paperwork, this is an EXCELLENT option to hold you over. I’m a hair under six feet tall and normally wear 42 regular suit jackets. I found the whole package to be ever-so-slightly cramped shooting it like a rifle, but that’s to be expected with such a compact package.
A word to the wise: don’t shoot this gun indoors without a silencer or doubled up hearing protection. Running ammo meant to burn in 20 inches of barrel in a system that’s only 7.5 inches long means that there’s a great deal of muzzle blast. The Triad muzzle device does a great job of killing muzzle flash, but holy moly is it loud. It isn’t bad if you’re the one running the gun, but spectating is a downright religious experience. You feel the blast more than you hear it. If you end up owning one, I’d relegate it to outdoor usage only.
The PWS muzzle brake/flash hider combo does an admirable job of managing muzzle rise and flash but boy howdy is it noisy. Did I repeat myself? Must have lost my hearing or something. Recoil is laughable for all but the daintiest shooters. And by that, I mean toddlers. The light weight means a great deal of control over the whole package. I had no problem double and triple tapping my way through PMag after PMag of 5.56.
The trigger is definitely good, and in the world of stock triggers, probably the best one out there. Viewed through the lens of “all triggers available” it doesn’t beat my Timney or any of the other high end manufacturers. However, it’s miles better than a lot of the trashy milspec triggers shipping with ARs today. It’s a single stage affair with NO takeup, just the very tiniest bit of creep and a glassy break. Really, the only fault I can find is that it has a heavy (my opinion) pull. It measured out right around 6.25 lbs. I’m a fan of 3 pound triggers, but if you prefer a sixish pounder, this is going to be perfect for you. All of the other controls work great including the very nice BCM Gunfighter charging handle.
I mounted a Primary Arms Aimpoint Micro knockoff for use at arms length as well as in the far more comfortable rifle posture. This setup worked better than the irons that ship with the gun. Future owners might also consider a larger unmagnified optic with a flip over magnifier.
I found the gun to be acceptably accurate with a realistic eye towards effective range. For my accuracy testing, I shot the MK 107 at a precisely measured 50 yards using an 8X scope with the front and rear of the gun supported with sandbags. The PWS appears to really love XM 855 as I was able to put up fairly consistent 1 (ish) MOA groups.
I spent a Friday afternoon shooting five different types of ammo through the MK107, a yet to be reviewed PWS DI Upper with a 14.5″ barrel, and my old steady Armalite with a 20″ upper. I found that the MK107 was putting up muzzle velocity numbers from 2367 fps for AE 223 to 2754 fps for PMC Bronze. If I were to use the MK 107 for longer engagements, I’d definitely choose the XM 855 which showed promising accuracy and very consistent velocity shot to shot. It was exiting the barrel at 2713 fps with a standard deviation of 23 fps. Compare that to the same load out of my 20″ barrel (3343 fps). What that means in practical terms is that at my elevation (~1600 ft) on a 90 degree day, muzzle velocity out of the MK107 is equal to the same velocity, and thus energy, at 200 yards from a 20-inch barrel. What it also means is that it gets pushed around by the wind a bit more.
Gabe Suarez claims that 300 meter hits on man-sized targets are well within the realm of possibility with an AR 15 pistol, but I didn’t take the opportunity to stretch the legs of this diminutive package quite that far. This is a sub-200 meter gun designed with maneuverability in mind. Making it do something other than that is asking it to do something it isn’t designed to do.
After zero cleaning of any type and at least 500 rounds of various ammo, the receiver is still just as shiny and new as the day PWS assembled it. In that time, I witnessed absolutely zero failures to fire, eject, load, or anything else save for the failures I caused by messing with the gas system (operator error)
Overall, I’m very satisfied with the PWS pistol in the role it was designed for. Slap a suppressor on it and you have a very maneuverable home defense gun that anybody in the family can operate effectively. Put in some earplugs, take it outdoors, and you have an awesome range gun capable of putting rounds on target out to 100 yards or more depending on your skill level. If your local club’s rules allow, this would make for a great carbine match gun as well. Or, if you’re jonesing for a SBR, but don’t want to negotiate the regulatory thicket, you can get about 90% of the way there with a MK107. If you’re waiting on paperwork to come back on your SBR, you can happily goof off with this until your federal permission slip comes back.
Specifications: PWS MK107 Pistol
- Advertised Weight: 5 lbs, 4 oz
- Actual Weight: 6 lbs
- Overall Length: 23.75”
- Barrel Length: 7.75”
- Advertised Muzzle Velocity: 2368 ft/sec
- Actual Muzzle Velocity
- XM 855 – 2713 fps
- XM 193 – 2376 fps
- PMC Bronze – 2754 fps
- AE 223 – 2367 fps
- Liberty – 2425 fps
- Chamber: .223 Wylde
- Barrel Twist: 1:8
- Price (retail): $1949.95
Ratings (out of five stars):
Fit and Finish * * * * *
This gun is a real gem. And for nearly $2000, it better be. The machining work is flawless and the coatings used seem to be very durable. The keymod system means a smaller diameter handguard which is a godsend for those with elfishly small hands like your humble scribe. It also allows a nearly endless amount of options for positioning lights, lasers, knives, blenders, and whatever else needs hanging off the handguard. The built-in buffer tube QD mount is perfect for single point sling usage and the included SIG Brace is well built and easy to use.
Reliability * * * * *
A piston system means your BCG and receiver stay cleaner longer which translates to more time spent shooting and less time vigorously scrubbing. Oh, and less dirt in the action to gum up the works. I had zero failures of any kind during my testing…except for those caused by me. On that note, my destruction of the gas system speaks to the reliability and robust construction of the whole rig.
Accuracy * * * *
I didn’t expect this gun to be a tack-driving mosquito killer. The effective range of the 5.56 round leaving a 7.5 inch barrel relegates it to a <200 meter gun in my opinion. Even 3 MOA, well within the realm of possibility at the max effective range of 200 meters, is a grouping that covers a man’s torso. To expect more than that seems foolish, no? That said, the PWS pistol was quite accurate with XM 855, a testament to great quality control, and solid manufacturing processes.
Ergonomics * * * *
Shooting the pistol as a pistol using the SIG Brace is an awkward affair and not ideal for long-term use and enjoyment. That’s a lot of weight to suspend at arm’s length and unless your upper body is built like Hafþór Júlíus Björnsson, you’ll tire quickly. Used in tandem with a properly adjusted single point sling, it’s a fairly usable system. Tuck that brace back in your shoulder, though, and you have a very effective, albeit cramped quasi SBR experience. Nine months of patient waiting and a $200 stamp will net you a longer length of pull…and that’s about it. Tuck everything in tight, grease up your Costa-like operator beard, and get to shooting this gun in the meantime.
Overall * * * *
While this would arguably be a more effective gun in .300 BLK, something PWS offers, this is still an outstanding firearm. It withstood my dumbass mishandling and kept on trucking. It was accurate enough, lightweight, and a real blast to shoot. I’m really grasping for nits that need picking to say that I’d prefer a lighter trigger. It’s one of the best stock triggers I’ve used, but it still isn’t perfect. If you set some realistic expectations about what your intended use case is, this might be a valuable addition to your safe. It is lightweight, portable, and doesn’t require a blessing from the BATFE to own. If you’re in the market for a SBR, consider giving PWS a strong look.
What practical purpose does an AR pistol have?
1 having what is basically an sbr without having to get a permit
2 for home defense have what is basically a sbr to maneuver around your house
According to this review, double ear protection is needed to fire indoors. This would likely be a terrible option for home defense.
I agree with this as my AK pistol is freaking loud. A guy at the range yesterday had an AR pistol and his gun was loud too. I had good muffs on and even today my ears are not entirely happy. I forgot my surefire plugs to double up and I am kicking myself now. I already had hearing damage from 17 years ago so this just exacerbated it. Double earplugs or a can if you want to hear again while shooting indoors.
In a home defense situation, being to “loud” would be the last thing on your mind. Ringing ears? or dead? you go right ahead and take our pick.
Deafening and blinding. A very poor choice.
And no need to worry about NFA restrictions and notifications crossing state lines. One of the fine authors here pointed that out in an article here.
Ya, especially with that cinder-block mag, those things jam all the time (very third-world tacticool).
I just got that.
The advantage of a platform like this is that it is registered as a pistol. That allows some carry options not always available for an SBR or rifle. (E.g., vehicle carry). It’s not supposed to compete with an AR-15 rifle.
You also have the luxury of taking it with you to any state where legal without hassle. You need to notify the ATF before you move a SBR across state lines.
You beat me to it.
Short barrels are fun, but the loss is velocity for 5.56 is a deal breaker for serious purposes.
The perfect pistol/SBR is 300blk as is it designed to expend its energy in a 9-inch barrel. Not a good plinking round though due to its expense, but it is my home defense gun.
Prices are getting better. Not long ago I saw some 147gr loads from Ozark Ordnance for ~55 cents per round (bulk). Still not what I’d call “cheap,” but miles better than the $1+ that seemed the standard not long ago.
Thx.. that is better. I will check them out
I’ll be happy the day I see Barnes 110 gr TAC TX loads hit that mark. Moving in the right direction though. The more adopters we get, the better it will be for all…
Agreed. Meanwhile, both the versatility and ammo prices of 300BLK are pushing me ever closer to finally getting into reloading. If you want a thing done right…. 😉
I’m with ya, Speleo. Now that I’m in the 300 BLK game, it’s time to breakdown, get a press and learn the art of reloading. Good thing I have lots of friends to help bring me along. I hear it’s something that you really don’t want to EFF up 😉
I just got a reloading press. Trying to set it up for 38s right now. Nothing works right. What works one day, does not the next. Most frustrating thing I have ever done. I am one breakdown from giving up, seriously.
My buddy just purchased 500 rounds of the Ozark 300 BLK 147 grain. No word on reliability yet. His price was about $.063 / round shipped.
I found that deal on Slickguns a while back and picked up a pile of Ozark ammo myself. I haven’t shot any yet, so I can’t speak to accuracy or reliability, but it looks clean and well manufactured. I also read several positive reviews from others before I parted with my money.
After thinking about that for a moment I ordered a case gauge today so I can use a little more than my eyeballs & good humor to form an opinion. I’ll need that down the road for reloading, anyway.
I think that all depends on the range. If you are up close and personal (the standard use case for a SBR), then it still has enough punch. At extended distances, then yes, 5.56 sheds too much velocity in a short barrel.
Also keep in mind that one use case is as a replacement for MP5 style guns. A 5.56 in a short barrel does everything that a 9mm in an MP 5 can do better with the exception of noise suppression.
And the 300 BLK from a 9″ barrel soundly trumps a 5.56 from a 9″.
300 Blackout also cost over twice what 5.56 costs, and is available everywhere,
Glad to see you liked the .223 Wylde, Tyler. I literally just started a pistol build with the Mk107 upper in 7.62×39–finished ordering parts for the lower about an hour ago. 🙂
“Do you need another copy of the manual? ” rofl that hilarious.
Great review, PWS just went to the top of my buy from list.
I thought that was pretty damn funny, also.
“The National Firearms Act of 1934 is possibly the most outdated body of firearms regulations in the United States.”
It’s also almost irrelevant, thanks to a few innovators.
no short barreled rifles…get a sig arm brace that’s not a rifle.
no short barreled shotguns…get a pistol grip only shotgun that’s somehow not a shotgun
no machine guns…get a bumpfire stock that’s not a machine gun
no suppressors….ok I got nothing on this one (unless you count airguns with legal permanent suppressors) but hopefully someone is working on it.
“It’s also almost irrelevant, thanks to a few innovators.” – Not really see below
“no short barreled rifles…get a sig arm brace that’s not a rifle.”
– for $60 less than a tax stamp you get the worlds shortest most uncomfortable and awkward non adjustable fixed length stock. Shorter than shooting a collapsible stock from position 1 on the buffer tube, and most users agree it isnt even really good as a stock for any extended shooting. May be easy to do for the more “compact” shooters out there, I for one (6’2″) cant even begin to comfortably or accurately shoot until the stock is out at position 2 or 3 on my rifles. The sig brace leaves a lot to be desired, if you are going for the SBR “look” it is probably more practical than the idiots who pin weld a KX3 to a 13.7″ barrel, but then only just a little bit. Also availability, everywhere I have looked has these backordered about as far out as getting a tax stamp back…. NFA myth busted? no not really.
“no short barreled shotguns…get a pistol grip only shotgun that’s somehow not a shotgun”
– I have no experience with these.., NFA myth busted? plausible
“no machine guns…get a bumpfire stock that’s not a machine gun”
-Again not really, bumpfire stocks arent particularly accurate, and don’t even come close to the rate of fire as a true M4. This falls into the “useless” mall ninja category of things that look cool (or in this case sound cool) but has no real practical use. You get all the downsides of FA fire such as accelerated barrel wear, ammo expense (waste), etc… and not really any upside except for it sounds kind of like full auto… except to anyone who has actually shot an M4 or similar. Learn how to ride the reset on your trigger and you will be 90% of the way there and you don’t have to buy several hundred dollar chunk of plastic that is ugly and makes the gun less accurate – NFA myth busted? No not really
no suppressors….ok I got nothing on this one (unless you count airguns with legal permanent suppressors) but hopefully someone is working on it.
-Yep they’ve still got us here.
All the things you listed are cool toys/ conversation pieces. The only one that comes close to being remotely useful is the sig brace and then only in isolated cases where the length of pull matches the shooter. This also only lasts as long as the winds at the ATF dont change. The more and more people start advocating the use of these as “stocks” the more likely the ATF is to change their mind… especially with those modifying their buffer tubes with spacers to give better ergo’s including some manufacturers who have started building buffer tubes with more material near the receiver to act as a stop for the sig brace. Its a fine line that I would rather spend $60 more and get a stamp to be on the right side of. Then I will also be able to use a quality adjustable carbine stock and vertical forward grips etc.
Just a heads up, but there are pistol buffers (KAK, Phase-5) that allow you to setup the brace to an acceptable length of pull for many folks. I have a KAK on my 300 blk pistol with the brace. It has spacers to allow for setting up the brace’s LOP. Obviously, it’s still not adjustable on the fly, but it’s worlds better than just a standard pistol buffer tube. Check it out here:
Go back and read my post, I talked about those buffer tubes. Practically speaking, you are either out $305 (Tax stamp $200, magpul CTR $75, premium carbine buffer tube $30) or less if you get a cheaper stock.buffer tube vs $215 ($140 for the SB and $75 for the KAK tube). So you are best case scenario $90 ahead of a legal SBR, except you have a fixed stock that still is a crappy stock even if it now fits you.
Also go back and read my last paragraph. Personally, I have a family and a life that I have worked very hard to build. I don’t want to be in the same county as one of those buffer tubes, to be honest. The winds in the ATF change so frequently and without very much warning (or logic)… I have too much to lose from falling on the wrong side of the NFA. I don’t care if the charges don’t hold up to constitutional scrutiny, your life as you know it will be for all intents and purposes ruined from that point forward, at least financially speaking. Lots of us couldnt even afford to fight it so we plea out and that’s all she wrote as far as ever owning firearms again for the rest of your life. If that means I have to take one of my 16″ carbines to a hog hunt in a different state, so be it.
Heck even if those never fall foul of the ATF in our lifetime…. what do you think a malicious DA/ prosecutor is going to do or at least try to do if you use a sig brace pistol in a home defense DGU? Do you want to put the rest of your life in the hands of 12 people who probably don’t have a very solid grasp on the finer ins and outs of the NFA? No!… All they are going to hear is “malicious bloodthirsty homeowner uses modified super short, highly lethal death machine with a ghost stock shoulder thing that goes up that exploits loopholes in the laws of this country to kill this poor troubled youth”, although to be honest they would say something similar if you used a legal SBR… so its a draw on that count.
Tex – That’s why I use a shottie (and handgun) for Home Defense. “Man defends family in home with shotgun” doesn’t make any headlines.
And yeah, having a Sig Brace (on a 300 MPW), I agree, it’s definitely better to SBR (…in process).
Sorry, it was buried in your last paragraph, my fault.
I am not going to live my life in fear of the ATF and the “what ifs” of the points you brought up. I respect your reasoning, but it’s not for me. I keep up with current law fairly well and if something were to change, then I’d do what needed to be done accordingly.
A pistol buffer by definition cannot accept a stock. ATF indeed could change their mind, but until then, again, I’m not going to play the “what if” game. Here’s something I found that was interesting regarding buffer tubes when it comes to pistols when I was researching this. It basically states that as long as the receiver was never in a rifle configuration that using a rifle or a short pistol buffer tube is acceptable on it’s own merit: http://www.jcweaponry.com/images/ar15/BB.JPG
I understand that those things aren’t going to be quite as good as the things you need a tax stamp for. I was just saying they were close enough as to make nfa seriously ridiculous when you don’t have to jump through any of the hoops to get these.
oh, and the pistol grip only shotgun is a mossberg 500 (at least that’s the one I associate with this “loophole”) with a 14 inch barrel and overall length of at least 26″ since a shoulder stock is part of the definition of shotgun (no shoulder stock = not a shotgun) and only firearms under 26″ falls under aow
there is a picture of one here http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=88 with a better explanation than a comments section has room for
On health and safety ground guns should have silencers on. You cannot have a car with one, but you cannot have a gun with one.!!!!!!!!!!!! Now that is crazy. Even in England they have silencers to protect their ears.
Great, googly moogly. $2000 is lot of money for a AR pistol. What justifies the price? The fact that it is a piston system? Or is there nothing on the market that is comparable and they can name their price at the moment?
Quality of parts. As an owner of PWS stuff, their quality matches, and dare I say, surpasses the HK 416. It’s a long-stroke piston with a QPQ isolate barrel. Everything is made in house. Yeah it’s expensive, but there’s hardly anything out there as far as quality goes that can compete with it. As far as pistons go.
Good to know, thanks for the reply.
The LWRCi pistol is also about the same price.
I am holding my breath for something like the RRS PDS in 300 Blackout.
The short barrel would work better with this caliber than in .223/5/56.
The lack of the receiver extension would also make it compact enough for carry in a vehicle.
Since I cannot have a loaded rifle in a vehicle this would give me better ballistics than a standard pistol when driving on the many forest roads out here in the western wilderness.
Have you seen the AAC MPW 9 300 Blk Pistol yet?
Personally I wouldn’t use something like this in 5.56, 7.62×39 or 300 BLK on the other hand would be perfect.
Hmmm so maybe something like an AAC MPW 300 Blk Pistol with a 9″ melonite treated barrel, NiBx BCG, Geissele G2 trigger… plus Sig brace, Troy DOA rear and front flip ups with tritium, BCM Mod 0 grip, Raptor charging handle, Tactical Link sling attachment point and 1-or-2 point QD bungee sling, KAC rail covers with a Magpul AFG, an AAC SDN-6 slapped on the end, running an Aimpoint with QD mount or a good 1-4x scope?
That is the most tactical thing I have read, no offense intended.
For me: 9-12 inch barrel (300 blk, 7.62×39 respectively). A scope (4x mag or less, something like a PSO), a folding stock or arm brace.
Currently an AK-104 is perfect for my needs.
haha yeah, well… sometimes you just have to say, what the fvck
Yeah, sadly I didn’t understand most of it… was sorta like reading a shopping list. Honestly? My motto when it comes to shooting is “as long as a trigger and projectile are involved I’ll make it work”.
That was a bit of a shopping list. Without being as specific, I thought I’d tie back to the review by pointing out that PWS offers uppers / complete builds in 300BLK (9.75″ barrel, 12.75″ barrel) as well as a limited run this year of 7.62×39 in 7 3/4″.
I’m not sure how I feel about a piston system for 300BLK, but I definitely like the idea for 7.62×39 since cheap, dirty steel case ammo is readily available. As I mentioned above, I picked up the PWS 7.62 upper for a new pistol build before this review was published. It just shipped today, in fact. I should have everything cobbled together in a week or two. I can’t wait to try 7.62 out of a shorter barrel with a Geissele trigger. It’s gonna be a blast (literally).
I also feel compelled to mention that I already have a pistol in 300BLK (10.5″ Noveske upper). For an AR pistol I thought it was the obvious first choice due to ballistics / powder burn. It’s partly because of how well that build turned out and partly for the novelty factor that I decided to do another pistol in 7.62. I don’t expect it to be as practical or versatile as the 300BLK, but it should be a lot of fun to shoot and a whole lot cheaper to feed.
Not sure if the author hadn’t realized this or not, but you don’t have to jam that brace all the way down on the buffer tube. Determine where it would sit for your preferred length of pull, cut one of those foam tube sleeves to make up the difference & you’re all set. It’s what I did with my Sig, works fine.
I come to this all after years of kicking and screaming. I objected to the concept of a “pistol” AR. I objected to the “SIG brace” when first announced. I objected to any and all supposed practical uses of such a weapon.
I hereby apologize to all. After numerous posts on TTAG on these guns, I finally have become a believer. I think the thing which has really convinced me is the brace. You now have a very reliable, 30 round canon, with a means of support on most folks. As noted above, a weapon with definite uses in close combat, home defense, etc. AND none of the NFA/ATF nonsense. Actually having the rules of the Feds backfire on them so to say. Their stupid definitions of a pistol allowing a modified ASSAULT RIFLE (their word) to live on as much as any .25acp Beretta pocket gun. LMAO….
This really does look like the best AR pistol on the market. I have had guys shit talk me on these set ups since I was a young buck and first heard of AR/AK pistols. I listened and didn’t get one, but I might have to now that the brace is out there. Piston seems like the way to go too for the short barrel.
These guns make a lot of sense to someone who is disabled like me. I use a manual wheelchair and this would be easy to stow in the satchel under the seat, I can’t do that with a 16″ barrel rifle even if it folds. My understanding is that the SIG brace was actually invented by a disabled veteran, is that true?
I believe it was developed FOR a disabled person so he could shoot one-handed.
TTAG has you covered:
Alex Bosco, the inventor of the brace design (that was eventually sold to both SIG and Century Arms) is a veteran, but he designed it for use by a friend who is a disabled veteran.
I hope the writer realizes that its ok to shoulder an AR pistol using the SigBrace. There are many people who do it, and it has been verified by some respected Youtube channels.
Anyway, 7.5″ barrels are too short IMO. A 10.5″ barrel with a Carbine gas system is better and produces higher velocities, and the 3″ difference is minimal to the OAL.
“Gabe Suarez claims that 300 meter hits on man-sized targets are well within the realm of possibility with an AR 15 pistol.”
Gabe is referring to AR pistols with 10.5″ barrels. The extra three inches adds a significant 200fps of muzzle energy.
@ will…. Are you that dumb? Really, this is an sbr for those not wanting to wait for the sbr stamp
Oh, if you think the PWS in 5.56 is fun to shoot get a hold of one in 7.62x39mm it is the bomb !! 🙂
Glad to hear, since I did get hold of one in 7.62×39 (as noted above, in an earlier comment). I did my homework and ordered my parts just ahead of this review and just completed my build today. See the FFZ (a.k.a. “Forums”) for a picture & parts list.
My mags (CPD) are still inbound, so I won’t be able to take it out for a while yet, but I’m chomping at the bit!
I love how everyone compares the price to a $200 tax stamp.. but they fail to account for the cost of setting up a trust
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