Would You Support a Voluntary ‘No-Buy’ List to Prevent Suicides?

gun suicide study comparison

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About 36,000 people die of gunshot wounds in the US every year. Of that total, two-thirds are suicides. To the extend that the number of suicides can be reduced, that’s a benefit, not only in terms of the lives saved — the primary consideration — but it’s also a plus for gun rights.

Despite all of the statistical evidence, our friends in the Civilian Disarmament Industrial Complex will claim that we’re in the midst of a “gun violence” epidemic until every single civilian-owned firearm is confiscated. So there’s little we can do to change the minds or behavior of dedicated hoplophobes and gun-grabbers. But those in the middle — non-gun-owning voters who can be persuaded — are the ones gun rights supporters are interested in convincing.

California is the land where gun rights go to die. A firearms-related bill that’s pending in the state assembly, however, would have the unusual feature of being voluntary. AB 1927, as currently written, have the California DOJ study options for allowing individuals to prevent themselves from buying a firearm.

Assembly Bill 1927 would allow at-risk individuals to put themselves on a voluntary no-buy list, which would prevent them from purchasing guns from a licensed dealer. The bill was approved by the Assembly on Wednesday and is now in the state Senate.

It’s worth noting that impulse gun buys aren’t an issue in the Golden State as there’s already a 10-day waiting period imposed on all gun purchases. Still, if an individual doesn’t own previously purchased firearm when they consider taking their own life, that could make a difference.

Often, people at risk of suicide are well aware of their vulnerability, especially if they have chronic mental illness. Research shows that suicide is almost always an impulsive act during acute distress. A no-buy list, which recently passed in Washington state, allows suicidal crises to pass without a gun nearby. Once the crisis passes, individuals can take themselves off the list.

Wait. Won’t people determined to kill themselves just choose another method? Not according to Professor Frederick Vars of the University of Alabama.

There is a common misconception that suicidal individuals will simply find another way if guns are not available. Most do not try another method and if they do, other methods are far less lethal.

The professor doesn’t provide any proof for that assertion, but let’s concede the point for argument’s sake. To whatever extent possible, reducing the number of suicides is a net good. And since this law would be voluntary, is it something with which you could get on board? Is it possible that California could enact an actual gun safety measure that gun owners will support?

 

comments

  1. avatar Leighton c says:

    Key word:Voluntary

    1. avatar Mark N. says:

      Yup. I you want to voluntarily waive your rights under the Second, that’s on you, not the State. Hey, why don’t we expand the idea, and allow all the gun banners to give up their rights too?

      1. avatar Joe R. says:

        +

        You just voluntarily waived your right to _______________. Yes, you did. We saw and heard you. Get em.

        1. avatar Nigel the expat says:

          You signed this peice of paper, right here.

          Get ’em, boys!

      2. avatar California Richard says:

        What a great idea. If there any Republicans in California who get called out for supporting gun rights, it’s a great response to have in the back pocket…. “If you are so against the 2nd Amendment, then why don’t you put yourself on the voluntary no buy list?” It’s up there with “Then, why do you need armed security?” and, “So, why do the cops have AR-15’s?”

      3. avatar RA-15 says:

        I second that idea. Good thinking Mark N.

      4. avatar frank speaks says:

        well, they’re trying to keep people from jumping off the golden gate bridge…so I guess it’s ok…the real question is why do so many people in california want to commit suicide?

      5. avatar davida says:

        go one better, if you are anti gun your on the no buy list automatically . and must buy a no gun permit . at same cost as a ccl permit.

      6. avatar Tom says:

        Plus they neeed to voluntarily display a ” GunFree Zone” sign by the front door of their homes.

    2. avatar rosignol says:

      Yup.

      So long as it’s voluntary and not imposed by someone else, I don’t have a problem with it.

      I would suggest that rather than being able to claim “I’m much better now” to be removed from the list, that the person specify a time period when they make the request, after which the listing would automatically expire.

    3. avatar MG says:

      The problem is POS (D) incrementalism at some point it will no longer be voluntary

    4. avatar J says:

      Sure, it might start voluntary. But as time goes on the number of people who can “volunteer” you for the list will increase. Spouse, family member, cop, yenta who lives down the street and volunteers everyone on the block for their own safety…

      Presumably there will be a voluntary no buy list for helium tanks and razor blades as well?

    5. avatar Ken says:

      Somewhat better than these red flag restraining orders , or whatever they are called. Issued through a secret hearing, without due process or recourse

  2. avatar Joe R. says:

    No.

    I would support a no-buy list for POS (D), because, if you test positive for POS (D), you fucking asked for it. You are not being ‘warred upon’, it’s ‘war answered’, bitch.

    1. avatar Cundalini says:

      beautifully said

  3. avatar Joe R. says:

    There’s plenty of people who want to be ‘put in charge’ to “do some good” and ‘make a difference’. Those are the dangerous stupid-crazy ones.

    There’s people that’ll take advantage of anyone and any group to use them as a lever to take away your guns. THOSE MOTHERFUCKERS ARE SICK-TWISTED COMMUNIST POS (D), and they’ve all got to go.

  4. avatar Ralph says:

    The “no buy list” is going to be the Hotel California of gun rights. You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.

    Go ahead and volunteer. You’re never getting off that list.

    1. avatar Bernard says:

      Yup. Also, Kate Spade was found dead today, hanged from a red scarf on a bedroom door.

      1. yes , but if she used a gun she would be more dead , also a gun is final , not like jumping off a building where you can change your mind on the way down

      2. avatar Ralph says:

        “hanged from a red scarf”

        With a matching handbag?

        1. avatar Bernard says:

          The description was a copy-paste in the article I read.

      3. avatar Jedi Wombat says:

        I wonder if the small country’s GDP worth of handbags my wife has will go up in value? And before anyone tells me how crazy I am letting my wife buy ridiculously priced handbags, we have a deal. I dont say sh!t about purses, she doesn’t say sh!t about guns. Happily married for almost 25 years so it works for us!

      4. avatar Ed Schrade says:

        Should have put herself on a no scarf buy list.

    2. avatar J says:

      I guarantee there will be leftwing piece of shit teachers making their class fill out these as an “assignment”.

  5. avatar rt66paul says:

    What is the penalty for representing yourself as someone else to keep them from guns?

  6. avatar Imayeti says:

    Nope. Men are notoriously impulsive about suicide. They are also hard to get into a helping environment. Women usually plan ahead, and are more open to help. The list might attract women, but not men.

    1. avatar Gralnok says:

      Pretty much. If they own a car, a rope, live near train tracks, people will find another way to off themselves. Guns are just faster and more effective.

  7. avatar Chip in Florida says:

    Again, still, all the focus on the tools used while ignoring the person who is suicidal. Removing one particular tool does nothing to remove the thoughts of what that tool could accomplish.

    “..Man, my life sucks and immagonna end it all. No… wait… they took all my guns away….. dangit! Oh well, I guess I’ll just give up on the ending it all and go back to work now. Tra-laa-la.”

    said no suicidal person. ever.

  8. avatar MIO says:

    Why do you need to volunteer for a list? If you have that will power then you can just not buy one.

    1. avatar TrappedInCommiefornia says:

      Many people who suffer from depression have highs and lows. During a non-low period they are often aware that they will eventually again sink into utter depression where they may not have as much control.

      1. avatar MattG says:

        If they are on the list and in a particular down period, couldn’t they just request that they be removed from the list so as to buy a gun and complete their quest? If so then this law would be pretty much useless. To be effective, it would require hoop jumping and permission from .gov to get off the list so it’s a No for me.

        1. avatar Rob says:

          +1
          A few more point in support of NO:
          1. If the perp can take himself off the list to perpetrate the crime of suicide, whats the point of having the list?
          2. Are the mentally ill sufficiently skilled life planners that they know the next 47.5 days will be depressed days?
          3. How many mentally ill, that don’t already own guns, really want to go out and buy their first gat? I doubt there are many people in this category. Aren’t most gun buyers already owners of multiple smoke poles?

          No disrespect intended to the folks struggling with head problems. God bless you.

  9. avatar ready,fire,aim says:

    if they want to end their life they will find a way….say starting your electric car in your sealed garage…..

    1. avatar Gralnok says:

      That may take a while… 😉

      1. avatar frank says:

        or sticking your dick in a light socket….

  10. avatar William says:

    Absolutely not. I believe today’s voluntary program will be mandatory tomorrow.

  11. avatar TyrannyOfEvilMen says:

    Kabuki theatre.

    If you think you might kill yourself if you bought a gun then don’t buy one.

    No law required.

  12. avatar William says:

    What happens if because you were on that list, you get “red flagged” and are determined to be a threat to yourself and others? Changed your mind, sorry, guns still get confiscated.

    1. avatar Big Bill says:

      I have a problem with the idea that people who are actually recognizing that they are so chronically mentally ill that they need to do this, are not being advised that they should check themselves into a mental health facility.
      But then, this is part and parcel of the Dems’ idea that this is, after all, the gun’s fault, and no fault of the person involved.I have to ask why this person’t friends and family aren’t doing anything. Oh, wait, they are all Dems too, and expect the government to solve everyone’s problems.

      1. avatar rob says:

        +1.
        If someone recognizes that he is a danger to himself and possibly others, he shouldn’t be allowed to do much in society until he gets help. He should also have restricted access to driving, being around public transportation, high buildings, etc.

      2. avatar PRK543 says:

        I agree. If you know you are so unsafe to yourself or others that you need to remove yourself from firearms, then you should be in a facility. This happened 20 minutes from my house. The guy had his family take his guns and still managed to kill his daughter and daughter-in-law. Also injured several other family members. https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/2-dead-when-car-crashes-into-bessemer-city-restaurant/753303242

      3. avatar frank says:

        what usually happens in this scenario is that someone in the family usually takes the guns away…seen that pretty often…this just seems an extension of that….and it should involve the cops…needs to be a group action…a mental health commitment may also factor in here…it’s important it be portrayed as a caring gesture…not something punitive..and the reversal process has to be included in the mix….clinical depression can be treated and is often temporary…also shouldn’t be a lifelong disqualifier on the 4473…as it is now

      4. avatar Tom says:

        Very few of the truly mentally ill have the ability to make rational decisions about much of anything over the course of time. They won’t get treatment, won’t adhere to treatment, because they either won’t admit they are sick, or believe they will simply get well. Relatives and friends are powerless to get them any help. The individual first become a problem for society and winding up jail.

        1. avatar Tom W says:

          +
          ^ this, well said

  13. avatar General Zod says:

    “Far less lethal”? So you’re less dead if you hang yourself?

    1. avatar Gralnok says:

      They only slightly killed themselves. 😋

    2. avatar Scoutino says:

      You will get only mostly dead.

    3. avatar Tom says:

      Dead from the neck up. then, liberal gun grabbers are already dead from the neck up, so that would be redundant.

  14. avatar L-T says:

    How quickly would “voluntary” become “mandatory”? Moreover, we are not allowed to voluntarily revoke our other rights, such as 13th Amendment rights. The freedoms of this country already allow you to not buy a gun if you do not want one.

    Also, it’s ironic California is debating this in order to prevent suicides. The Golden Gate Bridge has numerous suicides and suicide attempts each year. Nobody has ever talked about banning it.

    1. avatar FlamencoD says:

      Actually, they are in the process of spending millions and millions to install a suicide net at the Golden Gate Bridge.

      From interviews I’ve read of those that jumped from the bridge and survived, everyone thought “what the hell did I just do-I don’t want to die!” immediately after jumping. I can only imagine most people think the same thing after a jump, or hanging. Obviously, people likely don’t have the time to think that if they shoot themselves in the head. Sad either way.

      1. avatar Ralph says:

        I had two friends who killed themselves, one by hanging himself and one by jumping off a 14 story roof. I don’t know how my friend felt on the way down, but I do know that my other friend could have stopped any time in the first fifteen seconds or so before his lights went out. He didn’t.

        1. avatar FlamencoD says:

          Sad.

    2. avatar frank says:

      they’re supposed to be putting up barriers to prevent that…that’s over a 200ft fall…and the few who have survived it have said they regretted it on the way down…

  15. avatar Cam says:

    No, none given. It would only be a matter of time befor the word “voluntary” was changed.to mandatory.
    I have testified at the state legislature many times and have seen how the politicians try and change the original intent of many laws.

    1. avatar frank says:

      the real problem is making it a lifetime ban…as they do now…maybe more people would seek help if they knew that wasn’t the case….

  16. avatar MeRp says:

    So long as the voluntary action cannot be coerced, including by government action (like a court order or the like), and including as a condition to something/anything else (like as a condition of employment or the like), and so long as it is reversible in some defined (and not too lengthy) time period, then I can support it. It would give people, who may otherwise not have the self control, a tool to help themselves.

    If it violates any of that, then it is simply a crypto-gun-grab. So, all of that should be encoded into the law. Perhaps with some sort of legal failsafe that invalidates the whole law if any part of that is removed in the future.

  17. avatar former water walker says:

    MEH…if you want to screw your sad azz go ahead. Never seriously contemplated offing myself. Even with 3 ex-wive’s😄😎😧

    1. avatar N64456 says:

      3 ex-wives?? I figure you would’ve learned after the 1st “ex wife”?… 🤔 😆

    2. avatar J says:

      With a terminal ailment like 3 ex-wives it seems cruel to deny you the right to end your suffering at a time of your choosing.

  18. avatar Greg says:

    No, use discipline and self control to reach out for help.

    1. avatar frank says:

      depression…even the clinical variety… can sneak up on you and catch you by surprise…suddenly there’s no joy in life and going on can seem pointless…it can happen to anybody and can be triggered by any number of events…once you understand what’s happening and reach out for help and support it can be easier to get through it…

  19. avatar Michael in AK says:

    Tell that to the purse designer swinging from her scarf….

  20. avatar Ed Rogers says:

    I believe there is already an avenue in California, to do just that. I have a couple of family members who have voluntarily surrendered their 2A right…

  21. avatar Marty says:

    Nope, don’t believe I would. If the person is suicidal, and has been diagnosed as such, he already is not allowed to own a firearm. I’m not a head doctor, Is there such a thing as short term suicidal? How do we decide when he is no longer suicidal and when that determination is made, how long will it be until his problem returns. I guess it’s best to leave it up to the head doctors.

    1. avatar frank says:

      not always…half of them often seem like they need a shrink themselves…buddy of mine’s wife went through a rough patch and went to see what was purported to be the best one around…the doc got her straightened out…but six months later I picked up the paper only to see he had offed himself….ya never know…

  22. avatar Bob says:

    Well, we wanna venture down that rabbit hole do we?

    Here goes…

    Of the hundreds of suicide calls I have been on, I would have to replace “less lethal” with “takes longer to die”, as said, dead is dead.
    But lets weigh this issue out, why choose the firearm? well…
    Say you want to die, how do you want to die? I for one would like quick and painless as possible as I am already suffering enough as it is and death is to escape the suffering.
    So a bullet in the brain bucket works the fastest and we all assume is fairly painless when executed properly.

    So lets look at the “less lethal” methods that are popular here.

    #2 overdose, grab a bunch of whatever and hope for the best/worst. somewhat less lethal as most survive fine, but that’s because they want attention, not death. The ones who really want to die nearly always do.
    Pretty painless, takes slightly longer to die. Less lethal? only for the ones that just want attention, like I said…

    #3 MVC, motor vehicle crash. Bit of a gamble, may survive and become a quadriplegic which will probably make your life suck more. Still, a often used choice for some. Have seen quite a few planned out well! They nearly all succeed. The hope here is that death is quick and painless, but its a gamble, most of the time its just a spontaneous action. Last one was a motorcycle into a garage due to a fight with a girl, it worked…..

    #4 Hang. Old trusty. Kind of goes with the pills though, if you want it to work, you make sure its right. If you want attention, you use loose bindings or poor structures and make sure its around a time when someone will find you “accidentally”. For the ones that wanted it to work, it works, but you don’t want to hang around in misery all day waiting so this is usually picked by someone without access to a firearm or who couldn’t do it.

    #5 lets say, “other means”, like drinking a gallon of Clorox bleach, very painful, took forever, had to do it twice…. yea, not my choice.
    Cutting…… sideways is for attention, straight is for effect…. slow, you are fully aware you are going to die… eventually…
    Electrocution, not as effective with modern GFCI safeties today, don’t see it that often anymore, sloppy.
    etc….

    So in conclusion, the firearm is chosen so the person can feel the least pain and have it over the fastest.

    I don’t know about where the professor is, but I know around here, there’s at least a 10-1 ratio of non-firearm suicide attempts to firearm suicide attempts. So maybe weigh those suicide numbers in with ALL suicides and not just deaths by firearm and see if you save 2/3rds of the population then.

    As for a list…… you can keep your lists.

    1. avatar Gralnok says:

      You sound like you’re a paramedic. My thanks, if you are. 😊

      1. avatar Bob says:

        You’re welcome 😉

        1. avatar frank says:

          actually saw someone do the gun in the mouth bit…it was a Pa legislator and he did it in front of a roomful of reporters…looked quick and painless to me…and not nearly as gory as it’s depicted in the movies….

    2. avatar john y says:

      According to the CDC estimates there are 1.4 million suicide attempts (included successful suicides) per year only 24000 of those attempts are by use of firearms. Over 500,000 are by some form of poisoning (includes drug overdose). CDC also states that 20% will try at least 1 more time.
      Women would be more likely to use a system like that in question but they also chose poison over firearms already. http://lostallhope.com/suicide-statistics/us-methods-suicide
      The doctor’s statement “There is a common misconception that suicidal individuals will simply find another way if guns are not available. Most do not try another method and if they do, other methods are far less lethal.”, does not correlate with the fact that suicide rates for countries that have imposed strict gun control have not decreased (some show increase), so they must be finding other methods.

      1. avatar Bob says:

        Without running the numbers I’d say that feels pretty spot on.

        If the general public actually new the number of suicide or attempted suicides in their area it would shock them.
        Lil slap of reality, guns aren’t really a problem, drugs however are a VERY SERIOUS problem!

        VERY!!!!

        I just recently has this discussion with a friend of mine who was afraid of her son going to school for fear of him being shot.
        I told her I am not so much afraid of mine being shot as I am of them getting into drugs. The chances of them becoming addicted to drugs or die from them far outweigh the chance of death by firearm.

      2. avatar frank says:

        like Japan…where they actually have a park to commemorate it…kind of a weird and eerie place…let’s not forget those who make the big jump….a chick I knew had a husband who went to the mental health center to commit himself…and they wouldn’t let him in!..that night he went down to the river and jumped off the bridge…she’s still living off of those checks….

    3. avatar pclark says:

      knew a guy who ate his .357, missed his spine and just blew a hole in his neck. Spent about a week in the hospital then was sent home. I guess he changed his mind about trying again as this was a few years back and I haven’t heard that he was ever successful with a second try.

  23. avatar John in TX (Was CT) says:

    Aren’t we missing something here? How old do you have to be to waive your rights? 18? 21?

    If you do so, how can you get them back? Does it automatically sunset, requiring you to redo your waiver periodically? Does it require actual action from the person who disenfranchised himself? If so, what action? How hard would it be for such a person to get back his constitutionally-guaranteed rights? Judge? Multiple doctors?

    The devil for something like this is in the details, and unless I was 100% satisfied with the details I would be unable to consider supporting it.

    Plus, I’ve got a certain cynical suspicion that this is designed to erode support for 2A in upcoming generations, because there’s a bunch of stupid college students that will waive their rights in the name of politics and then never become informed.

  24. avatar AguywithaG says:

    There’s already a voluntary no buy scheme in place. It’s called not buying. What does involving the .gov do to improve this? Other than get a few more bodies on the taxpayers’ payroll.

  25. avatar PeterK says:

    Sort of. As long as the oversight is strong enough to keep it from being abused.

    Not sure it would do anything to help, though. Since you can just take yourself off again. And if you CAN’T do that it’s even more useless. Sooooo…

  26. avatar HP says:

    “…if they do, other methods are far less lethal.”

    Perhaps he means convoluted, near impossible methods of suicide, like hanging, or taking a dive off of a parking ramp. I mean, no one has ever ended it that way.

    It’s amazing how hoplophobia completely destroys the brains of those afflicted by it.

  27. avatar Joe R. says:

    This has
    N O T H I N G
    to do with suicide.

    Fuckers wanna fuck with ya. That’s it. One way they do it is ask other people to force you into getting that fucking, by saying / convincing other shitheads that they’re going to /their pirpose is to ‘help’.
    Eye fuck all those bastards, in both eyes.

    1. avatar UPS Driver says:

      Off your meds again ?

      1. avatar Joe R. says:

        Again, at least you didn’t say I was wrong.

  28. avatar RA-15 says:

    I am for any measure it takes for us to keep our 2nd amendment rights. If some mental case wants to help the cause by signing a no buy list , and it prevents them killing themselves or hurting someone with a weapon good for them. Any means by which we keep our guns , is imho , a good start. After all do we as POTG want mentally ill people having the ability to arm up and shoot themselves or worse , shoot innocents. If they think they are going to be a statistic , let them be one in our favour.

    1. avatar Joe R. says:

      Who runs the list, who keeps the list, and how much does Assbook Zuck make for selling the list to foreign bad-actors?

  29. avatar Ralph says:

    This “no buy list” would have been a lot longer if it had been enacted immediately after Hillary got schlonged. Unfortunately, Trump Derangement Syndrome isn’t fatal.

  30. avatar Amfivena says:

    I would say no to a voluntary no buy list, even if it is implemented with a realistic way to take your name off the list and a system to prevent false-positives. Given our plea-agreement based justice systems, it WILL quickly turn into the de facto stripping of 2A rights of anyone arrested. Time served, probation and go on the list, or risk years in jail – your choice.

  31. avatar TheUnspoken says:

    Well, this sounds like they will probably create some new list and write lots of software and waste millions.

    I have thought, for all those sorts who think guns are icky, they should be able to just stick themselves on the NICS no buy list. If they are so anti gun, just go ahead and give up your right. Maybe they could also mail in their SSN card and renouncement of citizenship while they are at it.

    Anyway, might as well use NICs if it is going to be there. Also – ability to self check.

  32. avatar Tom says:

    My problem is, I don’t like lists! I especially don’t like lists that come under government control.

  33. avatar Mark H says:

    Indoor Gun Ranges with Rental counters. No waiting period, no background check. When you are lucky the guy who decides to off himself only does himself and none of the other customers.

    1. avatar HP says:

      There’s an indoor range not far from me, this has happened a couple times over the years.

  34. avatar Rick says:

    If suicide is a form of mental illness maybe a court should make a decision. Maybe family members can bring it to the attention of a court. As with anybody found mentally ill, there needs to be a way to get your rights back. I once met a guy who pointed out that he had a card in his pocket attesting to his sanity after spending time in an asylum, he asked if I had a card that attested to my sanity? The problem is that the left will use this as a way to suggest that ALL of us are mentally ill in one for or another and that none of us should be allowed to own firearms. Then cars, then free speech, freedom of religion and freedom of assembly. The socialist left believes in the people as not being able to care for themselves so an elite group must manage our affairs. Freedom is lost if we let this happen.

  35. avatar William Ashbless says:

    No. Would we support a ‘No buy’ list for any method that suicide is possible? Lowe’s won’t sell you rope, bug spray, or rat poison unless you are on an approved list. WTF?

  36. avatar anonymoose says:

    If you are so freaked out, you can already take your guns to the cops or a relative and say “please hang onto these until I feel better.”

    Unfortunately suicidal depression doesn’t work like that, and ending your life is not a snap decision. It builds and builds and builds, and when you’ve lost all hope of rising above your circumstances, that’s when you decide to put an end to it, gun or no.

  37. avatar MarkPA says:

    “Most do not try another method and if they do, other methods are far less lethal.” Read Guns and Suicide, an American Epidemic by Anestis. He argues that the method of suicide is strongly fixed in each individual’s mind. If he is thinking of suicide by gun, then gun is likely the method of choice. If she is thinking of suicide by Queensboro Bridge then the Williamsboro Bridge won’t due. There might be something to this proposition; and, if so, then we could test it by encouraging our fellow gun-owners to buy a rope if they are thinking of ending it all.

    The more important point is that the gun is the original point-&-click user interface. Even so, as many people succeed in killing themselves by other means as with guns. So, is the problem with guns? Or, is the problem in successful suicides? Many times the number who succeed attempt suicide, but fail. Is it conceivable that the problem is with the mental-health suffering that leads to suicide; the means are secondary and more/less successful?

    I think that the OP’s question is a good one to ask; one to discuss in venues of open-minded concerned people. We really ought to ask whether this voluntary listing might be a good idea; and, if so, whether it ought to be accompanied by a full-disclosure that one is surrendering one’s Constitutional right to arms for life. Explain how it is that the FBI will put your name on a list that they promise – yes, that’s right, they PROMISE – not to give-up your name to any other agency of government, except as authorized by Congress.

  38. avatar CZJay says:

    Voluntary things are fine. However, I doubt it will be easy for them to get off the list and once off the list it could still haunt them for the rest of their life.

    Asians are pretty good at killing themselves. Jumping off a high place is just as irreversible and deadly as shooting yourself. Even very young people jump off their apartment building for something as small as breaking up with their boyfriend.

  39. avatar Cloudbuster says:

    No way. Insurance companies, police, social workers and mental health professionals can put a lot of pressure on people to coerce them into signing onto “voluntary” measures like this.

  40. avatar Toni says:

    nope this is wrong on so many levels. i distrust govt completely and the less lists they have of anything the better. this comes down to even the land you own. bill of sale should be enough even in todays climate for court disputes.
    as for suicides, here in australia we implemented “better” mental health care facilities and systems about the same time as our NFA came in which does stop many from getting a gun, even those who could legally get one as there are so many hoops to jump through to get a license and then get a gun. suicides by gun used to make up 70% of our gun death statistics which have not dropped by that much. now they are negligible. however suicides overall despite the “better” mental health programs in place have risen. nope if they cant get a gun they will use other methods. i also know one gun owner who tried to suicide by pills despite having guns and the psych asked why he had not tried to use a gun when he had them available. his answer was that he did not want to give the antis any more ammunition to use against fellow shooters and the sport he loved. he was allowed to keep his guns because of that

  41. avatar Garrison Hall says:

    My 2nd amendment rights are more important than the life of some depressed or deranged person who wants to commit suicide. I’m not at all unsympathetic to people who are contemplating or who episodically contemplate taking their life with a handgun or some other means. However, cajoling American citizens into freely abandoning a constitutional right is a bad idea regardless of the kind of moral imperative attached to its purpose. End of argument.

  42. avatar James W Crawford says:

    If guns cause suicide, why does the US have one of the lowest suicide rates in the western world?

    Why is Japan’s suicide ratebdoeble America’s?

  43. avatar tmm says:

    No. If you think you need to, commit yourself to an institution.

    Why only guns? Why not bleach, rope, razors, knives, plastic bags, whatever? This is stupid.

    1. avatar frank speak says:

      remember that movie “On the Beach”…where everybody offed themselves?….still can’t get that image out of my mind of Fred Astaire closing up that garage then jumping into the ferrari and gunning the hell out of it….kind of chilling…yet he seemed to go out with a smile on his face as he was apparently reliving the race he had just won…a kind of wild and wooly affair considering every driver knew he was going to die anyway…

      1. avatar zebra dun says:

        If my choice was dying of radiation poisoning any method would putt a smile on my face LOL!

  44. avatar JW says:

    Only if the government had nothing to do with it – making it voluntary for sellers as well as buyers.

    Some private mental-health organization could make such a list available for individuals to sign up for (with strict identification requirements), and available to gun sellers to check. As a gun seller, I’d be willing to use the list to deny a sale – as long as I had faith that it was being correctly maintained.

    Anything run by the government would inevitably be used to abuse the constitutional rights of citizens.

    1. avatar zebra dun says:

      The current in my state firearms paper asks all kinds of questions all but one or two are yes or no gun.
      But if you lie and answer them you still get the gun.
      The state is the entity that must make the determination whether you are carzy, suicidal or going to kill someone in advance the state can rule that about anyone it doesn’t like ie; all republicans are crazy and must not own guns. That is dangerous, gun control was first used to forbid Blacks from being armed.

  45. avatar Aaron M. Walker says:

    We certainly are living in “Orwellian Times…” Next stop, a Dystopian future….In the Name of public safety……

  46. avatar bob999 says:

    Professor Frederick Vars is full of it. If I remember correctly, Britain outlawed selling Tylenol in quantities above 24 because people were using Tylenol to commit suicide. It did nothing for the suicide rates. Even though it had no affect on suicides, they still kept the law. You would imagine with their mentality, they would have outlawed bridges and tall buildings after that.

  47. avatar Gutshot says:

    No. In some cases suicide should be mandatory.

  48. avatar John J. McCarthy, Jr. says:

    The government can not be trusted with any list.

    I say no.

  49. avatar John J. McCarthy, Jr. says:

    The gun-grabbers care about suicide only to the extent they can use it as an excuse to grab guns.

    1. avatar zebra dun says:

      The folks who want to ban guns to prevent suicide and murder are for abortion and euthanasia.

  50. avatar Dr Aaack says:

    Wish it were true. My son shot himself with a gun. He was under age and could not legally buy a pistol. To this day I don’t know where he got it. If someone is determined to do it they will find a way. Look at Kate Spade. Don’t mess with the second amendment, it’s a slippery slope.

  51. avatar zebra dun says:

    Is this for just guns or also for rope, cord wire, poison, vehicles,tall structures and water?

  52. avatar Jim Macklin says:

    I’ve got a better idea. Every city with a population over 58,000 will install a free suicide chamber that will operate with a Computer ID check to verify that the person is an adult and who they are using photo facial identification .
    After entering the required data the person will enter the chamber and the door sealed. Nitrogen will be pumped into the chamber so the person dies within a minute.
    The body will not be poisoned or physically damaged.
    The approval process will grant the donation of all body parts, such as corneas, livers, heart and skin and bones IF they test clean and free of disease and certain dangerous drugs.
    No more gun suicides, see, easy. Just like SOYLENT GREEN

  53. avatar Bruce Frank says:

    So how about some statistics on the percentage of suicides that are committed by people who are already firearm owners? I hate to say it, but it seems suspicious that such a law would be proposed in a state, my state, that has had for decades a 10 day waiting period that is supposed to address the specific problems of spur of the moment suicides AND domestic violence where an abused wife goes and buys a firearm to kill her husband (not my example, but the primary one used when the waiting period law was passed long ago). I see potential for abuse in the next step which will be for a firearm hating family member to request a ban on purchase by a relative.

    BTW, People’s Socialist Republik of Kalifornia’s waiting period applies even though one has several previous firearm purchases! And recently the law adds rifles to the waiting list…with no statistical justification to require repetitious waits!

    Firearms are used for 50% of all suicides, but 40% are by hangings and poisoning! Shall we extend this logic by controlling rope? Poisonings are the least effective with only 1 in 40 successful

  54. avatar Capn Jack says:

    Another B.S , “Feel Good”.

  55. avatar TRob ARob says:

    NO. This is the ONLY comment that should be seen on this forum. NO!

  56. avatar Jon says:

    Is there a no buy list on motor vehicles as well. And on driver’s license too.

  57. avatar Tom says:

    Just another slippery slope to everyone becoming a subject and not a citizen

    1. avatar Peter Clark says:

      I would not support such a bill, because I would be afraid that my gun rights would not be reinstated after the period where I felt myself at risk. Once on the list forever on the list.

  58. avatar Old Law Prof says:

    The trap is in the reinstatement procedure. YOU can voluntarily put yourself on the list but I will bet $$$ that YOU cannot “voluntarily” remove yourself. THST is the trap.
    So, NO, this is just another Trojan Horse.

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