According to njtvonline.org, “[Michael] Tumminelli says he wants and needs the gun to protect himself, his wife and their 3-year-old son. He’s a civilian employee of the Department of Defense . . . assigned to counterterrorism task forces that target the Islamic State and others. He prepares and trains agencies in explosives and cooperation in the event of an attack. Tumminelli has a wall full of accomplishments. He also has high-level security clearance.” But New Jersey won’t give him a permit to carry his .45 outside his abode. Newton Police and the Sussex County Prosecutor’s Office say Tumminelli hasn’t shown . . .
“…an urgent necessity for self-protection, as evidenced by specific threats or previous attacks which demonstrate a special danger to [Tumminelli’s] life that cannot be avoided by means other than the issuance of a permit to carry a handgun.”
Does that mean he has to ditch his supply of C4 and thermite grenades? The report above poses the question – without asking it directly – if someone like Tumminelli can’t get a license to carry in New Jersey, who can? And again, who can’t? That would be anyone who doesn’t have the political juice to get it done. “May issue” my ass.
NJ like CA and a few other places need a federal intervention to restore civil rights and the constitution as the law of the land. The pols in these places need to have black bags over their heads for the trip to gitmo.
The Feds would consider NJ’s gun laws “A-OK”.
Not “would”. “Do”. The Supremes declined to hear the Drake case about this very issue, letting previous circuit rulings stand despite being in direct conflict with other circuits. So there you have it.
Keep in mind Chris Cristie is A OK with New Jersy’s unconstitutional laws.
How many more people involved in our national defense have to be murdered before they are allowed to carry guns to protect themselves? What kind of military disarms its own soldiers?
“How many more people involved in our national defense have to be murdered before they are allowed to carry guns to protect themselves? What kind of military disarms its own soldiers?”
Implying that a particular class of people deserve the right more than anyone else is part of the problem. Please think it through before you express it.
“How many more people involved in our national defense have to be murdered before they are allowed to carry guns to protect themselves? What kind of government disarms its own citizens?”
There fixed it
Well genius, in fact that was Mr. Michael Hull (the reporter) who stated that narrative. It was not I, you know the African-American male with the mic? When I was asked what it would take, I responded a body. As for a certain class of citizen, another moronic comment. Yep look at me Jade Helm over here! Never mind the other male that was interviewed who is the President of NJ2AS, the only organization working to assist ALL OF US who are fighting the justifiable need. Continue on with your expressions.
Rambeast that’s not what I was implying. I simply made a statement relivent to the topic. Please don’t go out of your way to put words in people’s mouth.
You need to be consistent. Prior post of gun store not selling to Muslims but believing a guy who thinks muslims are after him. Muslims are our friends. We should give them guns and flying lessons. Right?
So it’s either dislike all Muslims or love all Muslims? You realize life has more than two options.
I’ll take ‘false dichotomy’ for $500, Alex
The Daily Double!
“Look, it’s either approve this agreement or it’s war.” Ugh.
You did read the part where it describes exactly what this man’s job is, right?
…and the part where his personal identifying information was leaked/hacked by ISIS, right? (Along with 21 million others). And the part where ISIS has made specific threats against military and DOD personnel in 70+ cities?
Now, I’m not saying Jihadi Joe is coming tomorrow to knock on his door (or anyone else’s, ISIS is about 99% bluster/1% action in the USA) but they have made that threat and have the information/resources they need to carry it out. That sounds like a credible threat to me.
New Jersey … I’m going to call it “Jersestan”
The People’s Republic of New Jersey was my favorite moniker when I lived there.
** The People’s Republik of Screw-You Jeristan. 😀
Soviet Jersey…
New Jermany as we like to call it
If he made multiple, sizable donations to the DA’s personal political war-chest and tacked a paid-for (D) onto his voter registration, it might grease the wheels for him a bit.
He isn’t any more in danger than someone walking around Camden at 2am, fancy certifications notwithstanding. Forget it, Jake, it’s Jersey.
Good, for once the law is applied equally to all American citizens.
Even the government has been allowed to become above the rule of law, that does not mean a government employee has more rights than the people who pay for them.
This is true, but it is a good example of how impossible May issue states are. They have no rhyme reason or logic. If he was a civ demolitions guy I’d assume he would be at a higher risk as well.
How is it there is no need to prove the Right of need now to marry whoever you want, yet you need to prove your need for the Right to carry a firearm? This would suggest we have more than one Constitution. Rights are Rights, all of them. We either have all or none, there can be no gray area. A gray area is being allowed as legal.
“We either have all or none, there can be no gray area. A gray area is being allowed as legal.”
It does kind of suck when you realize that you are a subject of the law, and not a citizen in a nation of laws. Welcome to the animating contest of Liberty, which occurs after citizens traded in their rights for the tranquil slavery of materialism.
The best part about freedom is that it requires some sacrifice, and the current generations are not the same comfortable sheep that the political wolves are used to fooling on to the dinner plate.
He may want to take a refresher class in OPSEC.
While he has a valid point and should be able to be issued a carry permit, but so should everyone other eligible NJ citizen. Just living in NJ would scare me more than being a victim of a terrorist attack. Happiness is NJ in the rear view mirror. NY, DC and MD in the rear view mirror can bring happiness also.
“Just living in NJ would scare me more than being a victim of a terrorist attack”
Isn’t that a disgusting comment to have to say about the character of some residents of this country, but they have chosen their own poison by being lemmings of the state. The lemmings would kill you for your phone, and lynch you for defending yourself against one of them. The state would require you to die before it would grant you the privilege to take care of yourself, which is not the definition of freedom.
Our tax monies are fleeced from us to fight foreign islamic radicalism, when most of us have to fear being shot just going down the wrong street. The ghettos, the people that reside in them, and the people who profit off of them, are more of a domestic threat to most of us gunowners, than what that federal employee will ever face from islamic terrorists.
So by what NJs response says, you have to have someone threaten to kill you or actually try to kill you before you have the right to protect yourself.
Move out of that state!
You almost have to have a specific person in mind as the threat. In which case, the cops would just investigate or arrest him.
Then you no longer need the permit, and you still don’t get one! Ha!
Catch 22 in action.
Maybe he could get a part time gig as a body guard for Kim Kardashian? They would issue then.
Fat lot of good active threats did for Carol Bowne
Using the logic of that Police department, all of their officers should be required to turn their issued firearms in and walk around as disarmed as the people that they oppress. The only advice I could give the victims of their oppression is move.
This is the kind of crap you would get from the Republicans if Christie is elected.
Sorry-no special dispensation. My own son is DoD,speaks arabic and lives in marylandistan. I assume he roots out muslim baddies too(he won’t or can’t tell his dad). And he thinks everything is swell where he lives-and disagrees with 97% of what I believe(which is BAD)…move to Pa. or somewhere better buddy. Chrisspy creme won’t help you…I sympathize with YOU…
My brother did similar sigint things for the Navy and ended up going over to the middle east on a regular basis. Every time something came up – Cole, Khobar, and Gulf War 2 and likely a few I don’t remember. He finished out in in the Peoples Republic of Maryland and got the hell away from there once he could get the house sold.
The real fix for this is for the US government to require that all the states recognize licenses issued by any other state, resident or non-resident. Then someone stuck behind enemy lines could get a non-resident Florida license and to hell with what the local anti-gun fools want. If any state did not wish to recognize licenses issued by another state then they could forgo all federal funds.
Gotta grease some palms if you want to carry in NJ.
It won’t help. They don’t issue. The police chief and a local judge have to sign off.
We are talking about New Jersey? I thought bribes were a big part of dealing with government there. Oh wait, they aren’t called bribes anymore. I think bribes are now called speaking fees.
I was thinking about attempting to get a ccw permit due to coming back from Afghanistan a few months ago and being instructed upon return that we are a direct target for Isis. I thought maybe I can qualify but it seems impossible. I just hope me or anyone of my deployed brothers in NJ get hurt or killed being unable to protect ourselves from this direct threat.
We have exactly the same deal in the Formerly Free State of Merryland. They essentially won’t issue unless you are carrying beaucoup cash for your business. And the Maryland State Police does the background check and permit plea approval. Seems tailor made for all those self-employed amateur recreational pharmaceutical salesmen in the Baltimore area, doesn’t it?
There are a lot of Muslims in New Jersey. I’m sure that one or more will be happy to prove that Tumminelli is in danger.
I will respond specifically to the OPSEC comment. When OPM lost all of our data and I applied for this permit, my information went public. Upon appeal in NJ, information is released as well as court reporters are usually reporting on cases that week. As well, the only information given is what was unclassified and can be found with a little digging around, such as my resume that was also lost in the hack as well in a state that requires justification…I HAD TO WRITE ALL THAT DOWN. People want me to either keep my mouth shut or move. I am no more important than other active cases on here which I have spoken with each of them on how to proceed, in fact one of my mentors is the single biggest case going right now at the State level. Beyond the national warnings for all GOVT employees both military and civilian NJ believes they are a country onto their own. How many of you guys know that every agency except for one was hacked? That leaves a lot of people who are in states like NJ vulnerable, at least our fellow citizens in other states and protect themselves in their own homes or on the streets. This isn’t about OPSEC, this is about rights for all or none. Move? It is an option for us, but what about those who can’t. We just shit can them? Say well it’s your fault you moved there? I have a hard time with that thought process. Again, appreciate the support. Just maybe some national organizations will start looking to support NJ now that we have our legs underneath us to start fighting at the grass roots level.
Keep on fighting, Michael. I wish you the best.
+1. You are also fighting for every person in the military, active or retired, ex- and also the defense contractors who support them. The OPM hack exposed the personal information for everyone who had a security clearance reviewed. ISIS has already threatened military family members at their homes and online.
We have lone wolf attacks on military installations, recruiting centers outside the bases, and the next is on families. That is the documented threat that already exists, and it should not require an iota of common sense for New Jersey or ANY LEO tasked with approval of CCW permits to accept that rationale alone.
Of course, EVERY law abiding citizen who is not a prohibited person should also be approved to apply for a CCW permit, simply for self-defense as good cause. That argument is being decided at the 9th CA in Peruta v Gore, now: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=893452
And in the 2nd CA in Wrenn, Akery v City of Washington, DC
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1035596&highlight=gura+dc
Until SCOTUS can hear these cases, likely in 2016,
the “DEMOCRATIC PARTY ELITE who have decided they are the self-appointed “Citizen Self-Defense Deniers” in New Jersey, California, and DC will continue to deprive EVERYONE of their 2A Civil Right in those circuits.
If you think about it- that puts Democrats in NJ, DC, and CA on the same side as ISIS, by putting American citizens at risk from proven terrorists who have announced their intentions, as proven multiple times already.
Well said!
rlc2,
And that, sir or ma’am, is why I believe we should charge EVERYONE who actively interferes with our Constitutionally enumerated right to keep and bear arms with TREASON.
As well, what was not mentioned was the Memorandum that stated the increased risks for my position that was given to the police/prosecutors office.
OPM hack was most likely not conducted by a terrorist organisation, likely done to gather intel on those who have/had clearances then figure out if the data can be used to compromise anyone with a clearance. If China was behind the hack, your PII is more secure with them than with most US companies.
I fully support your right to carry, but to use the hack or your employment as a reason is far reaching, you can’t carry to or from work as you work on an US Army post. Your case should be able to stand on it’s own merits as a US citizen and resident of NJ, not cause you are a GS. I seriously doubt if your wife could carry at work either or keep it locked in her car while at work. You are pointing out a problem within NJ for everyone, trying to make a difference and should be praise as most are not active for what they believe in. There are pros and cons to being the lightning rod for an issue.
And maybe in about 3 or 4 months most of the people who’s PII was compromised by the hack will be informed as NAVSEA is in charge of the contract for that service and have put it out for bid. As with all contracts lowest bidder will win the bidding process not the best product provider.
http://www.govexec.com/pay-benefits/2015/08/navy-takes-charge-finding-contractor-protect-opm-hack-victims/118821/
Good luck in your court hearings.
OPM was not used in original justification but was brought in on discovery. I responded bases on your OPSEC comment. Original justification was used in support of a memorandum and credible threats. In reality not sure how long my fight can last. My wife wants out of here asap.
After .gov was hacked by China and Russia, Iran and others of their ilk were right behind them. These actors DO NOT work in a vacuum.
Can’t you use your DOD ID badge or obtain a DOD metal shield? If questioned by NJ police just show them your badge or shield. If they give you any guff tell to seize immediately because they are “potentially” interfering with national security and they could “potentially” be indicted for their current actions. Just make sure to use the word “potentially” so you can lie but not lie like Hillary Clinton would say it.
Same in Maryland. Lots of federal employees cannot get a permit.
The good news is that people are much more likely to be robbed at gunpoint by the gangs and addicts that run the state. Since all they do is take your money and beat you up, you don’t need a gun for that.
/sarc.
May issue. what a joke in jersey. This guy should have one, and doesn’t. Carol Bowne should have gotten a permit to purchase, and didn’t. She was murdered by the way. Thank to dem leader Steve Sweeny and his ilk. Who just so happens to have a carry permit. Who also never gets credible threats. Worst he got was when protesters showed up at his house and while on the sidewalk, (NOT his property!) he turned the sprinklers on them. Whole f’in state is a joke, and love him or hate him, gonna get a whole lot worse when Christy is gone. oh yeah, wonder if the legislature remembers when they arrested 3 or so people off the seaside heights boardwalk on suspicion of helping to carry out 9-11?
Maybe a willingness to live in NJ is sufficient evidence that one is either not in any danger or is insane. Either way, they are disqualified..?
Makes one want to run out and give Obama a great big hug doesn’t it?
Actually, Christie didn’t hug Obama. But he did hump his leg.
I thought he tried to EAT his leg.
Some light reading. http://georgetownsecuritystudiesreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/NCITF-Final-Paper.pdf
This is one of several hundred unclassified (open source which means anyone can look at it on the internet).
What difference does his government employment make? If any thing being a government employee should bar him from owning weapons of any kind. Citizens should be armed, not government employees.
Chris, in New Jersey you must write a justification for why you are requesting a permit to carry a handgun. In order to provide facts to this case, it was reported about my position which was part of my justification. I am not only a GOVT employee but a combat veteran. Thanks for the comment though. I am a citizen too…just if you were wondering.
Michael, chris mallory is a well known troll on this site. We usually ignore him. Especially when he tries to institute gun bans for large portions of the population, this being a pro gun site and all.
I’m with the troll. As a nj resident and combat veteran, I deserve to carry as much as him. Statistically he’s in less danger than me if he lives in Newton.
Nonetheless I wish him good luck.
Ok hero then drop you paperwork and join the fight…it’s that simple.
Yes, it’s all of our responsibility, agreed. I make the donations, take newbies to the range, and vote appropriately. not much else to do in nj, there’s no popular support for action for now.
You may not want to hear it, because you sound like one of the good guys, but giving government employees firearms rights while denying it to regular citizens is exactly opposite of the intent of the 2a. What you are requesting is a slippery slope.
That being said, if nj2as is supporting you, I’ll assume the best and wish you well.
Roadrunner- Let me start by saying if you are a veteran, than you were once a federal employee at some point who was given a gun. If you are a NJ resident and a PRO 2A individual, you understand that a resident must give a justification other than it is your right which will not even make it to the local PD or NJSP desk. Hence why I used my job as a justification to show that like so many others in this state who are or have applied are denied and there is a defacto ban. As for your BS with me being a GOVT employee and another class of citizen, sorry to inform you I am a citizen first who is working with others to prove justifiable need is an actual ban. Now saying all that, its great to give money to organizations in NJ who really do not care for justifiable need to go away, hence their track record for the past decade. As for your statistics, I work throughout this state and travel on my own. So your statistics are based of some BS math. Quite frankly, as a veteran you might want to realize when NJ gets a Democrat as a Governor and they own the state houses, you are going to have everything taken away under their new mental health law they want to push. Also, four others who are party of this effort are veterans themselves and two work for DHS. I guess though they are scumbag elitists too.
Road runner. It’s a numbers game to protect our 2a rights. Trolls like chris mallory and others would have us drive literally millions of potential supporters and voters away from 2a support simply because they are current or former .gov employees.
Makes you wonder about his real motives, doesn’t it?
I’m not saying Mike should not be considered due to being a government employee. I’m saying I’ll be super pissed if the end result is a government employee carve out, like the LEO carve out.
If Mike gets a ruling of justifiable need, just for himself, well I guess he earned it for his efforts, good on him.
The only way to stop this madness is to start prosecuting the state officials who deny these permits after something happens.
In other words, if someone shoots Mike, then the cop that denied his permit need to be charged as an accessory before the fact.
Sussex County is also up in the woods, with Republican “leadership” yet the local government still denies the right.
So glad I got out of NJ a couple weeks ago. Will be applying for my SC carry permit soon… and I’ve already purchased a few standard capacity magazines for my rifle. Surprisingly nobody was killed when I unpackaged them.
Move the fuck out of New Jersey, stop giving that shithole your tax revenue
I’ll bet no NJ prosecutor has ever been denied a permit.
They are allowed to carry by statute if they train and qualify like sheriff’s officers do, but most prosecutors have a policy against letting their APs carry.
And Chrispy has done nothing to push for changing the insanity in NJ.
The corrupt in NJ like it the way it is. Just like in NY.
A neighbor works for a big box home improvement chain. He witnessed exactly how corrupt NY gun laws allow bureaucrats to be.
The chief of fire inspections walked intro a newly open store. He finds and employee. He looks around ans says “I see some violations here. That patio set would look nice at my vacation home in Florida.”
So they packed it up and sent it to Florida. The only complaint was that they didn’t call the Florida store and have it sent over to save on freight.
The submitted to the extortion demand because if they had not, the store would have had an accidental fire and the FD would have been too busy to respond.
That is what gun control does.
I was a lesser member of the fight to win concealed carry in Illinois. That fight was fought on three fronts; legislative, public opinion and judicial. The only reason it was won was because of an honest Federal Judge who, although he was against concealed carry, used existing law including McDonald to rule that Illinois had to provide a “shall issue” means of carry or he (Judge Posner of the 7th Circuit) would allow Constitutional carry.
The chances of finding another case to go before a Judge as honest and constitutionally supporting as Judge Posner is probably pretty much non-existent. Even SCOTUS can be changed overnight by a retirement or illness and the wrong President in office.
I don’t feel sorry for Mr. Tumminelli, not at all.
But, I do feel absolutely enraged that any American is ever denied his basic human rights as guaranteed by the US Constitution. Generations of Americans have fought, bled and died to preserve the basic freedoms that all of us are entitled to just for being born in the greatest country in the history of humanity.
How is it that we have been reduced to so many interpretations of the same truth? How is it that petty tyrants are allowed to gain power and prosper and even increase their power all at the expense of each of us that still live here but in direct denial of the guarantees that have been the very fabric of this country and the total reason for our greatness?
Every defeat such as Mr. Tumminelli’s is just one more example of the continuing loss of freedom and the continuing expansion of tyrannical political power.
What does this foretell of the future? At what point does the frog in the boiling pot suddenly scream and decide to leap out of the pot of boiling water and scream,” I am not going to take it anymore?”
Believe me, we’re in the pot and the fire is lit and the water is already well past tepid.
Each and everyone of us should take a personal interest in Mr. Tumminelli’s plight and indeed, the similar problems in every State where freedom of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is being placed second behind ‘for the greater good” as defined by some progressive statist.
You have to be one of the “more equal” pigs to get a license.
Another civil servant pretending to be more important than the rest of the citizens. Why isn’t Department of Defense giving him an official weapon?
Sucks to live in NJ. Sucks to be him.
He should move to Texas.
Well Paul that is a bit brilliant writing you have there. First, let me explain TITLE 10 Law to you. Anyone outside of LEO within TITLE 10 or is active duty which requires a uniformed personnel to carry a gun in the order to perform duties. This does not include myself or the thousands of others. Second, not sure where you got that I am “more important” than the other NJ residents who are fighting together to fight against NJ’s Justifiable Need requirement. Third, what is really funny is you must not have TV in Texas. Over a year and a half to get open carry? Not even signed yet until January of 2016. Funny, all of those illegal aliens being dumped in your cities and larger towns which are changing the demographics of the voting base so quickly its making people’s heads spin. The two-sided coin of just move to Texas, well with such a good economy, the progressives are sending their best to suck off and create local taxes that will destroy that economy. You must think these people go right for the title of State Senator, nope they start out locally and move up quickly. So keep on thinking TX is the best place that is not being hit, TX will remain a large target. Your cities are growing at a rate alone with the voting base changing. Eventually you cannot beat the urban areas. Yet, please continue to with your moronic statements. You are attacking me for trying to get the same freedoms for my family as you have. Keep trucking Tex.
This example simply illustrates that gun-grabbers are more than happy to throw everyone under the proverbial bus.
Remember, gun grabbers don’t even want the police and military to be armed. Nevertheless, they tolerate it as long as the police and military use their firearms to do their bidding. Given the chance, however, gun-grabbers will even disarm the police. Don’t believe me? Look at the United Kingdom or China.
The terms “arbitrary” and “capricious” come to mind.
What will it take? Mike’s head on spike outside Christie’s office?
Are you involved in the recall effort to recall the NJ state Senate president? I don’t recall his name but I have been following reports on gun podcast about their efforts. The group staged a protest in front of his house. I thought it was wonderful.
The only way things will change is if you and other gun owners or people who want to be gun owners start working for it. They did it in Colorado and Oregon.
Chris, I am not sure if you watched the whole video but the NJ2AS President was interviewed at the end in my house. Myself and another dozen or so NJ residents are working a smaller program with NJ2AS to support the effort. We are working this from far North Jersey, which Alex has been very supportive. We are one part of the support package to the Recall Effort that Alex has asked for.
Ok, I’ll be the bad guy here. This was just counnterproductive.
A dozen people in front of Steve Sweeneys house is a show of weakness.
The guy is likely our next governor. All this does is piss him off.
We have no numbers in nj. Probably 85 to 15 against ccw.
Nothing changes unless we get a favorable SCOTUS ruling, or something happens to scare women.
Until then keep your powder dry and don’t look like an extremist.
FWIW, this dude had (and his son still has) a NJ concealed carry permit.
http://www.mycentraljersey.com/story/news/2014/04/14/rocque-dameo-remembered-for-service-to-somerset-county-/7713493/
Read more at Ammoland. It is not every day that you get contacted by a man like Michael Tumminelli; a combat veteran, Department of Defense employee, and credentials and qualifications that would take pages to write about.
Thank you, but due to the lack of any real support from NJ2A communities and the apparent led by the nose from NJ lawyers who are making money of NJ’s bullshit, I have pulled my case. My family is out of the state very soon. Let me be very honest about NJ, they don’t want change because of the Trenton politics.