A key fact’s getting lost in the kerfuffle surrounding Cody Wilson’s 3D Liberator pistol: it’s all about China. Well duh. The United States of America is awash in handguns. American citizens can buy a box-fresh revolver for under $200. For less than a Benjamin you can buy a “pre-owned” pistol. It won’t be pretty but it’ll be a lot more reliable, accurate and durable than anything you can crank out on a $10k 3D printer. That’s us sorted. Meanwhile, in China, the fate of a billion-and-a-half people may well depend on what the United States government does about one Cody Wilson. Which is why they’ve shut him down. Let’s start with this . . .
China is a fascist state. Fascist states don’t allow civilian firearms ownership. Why would they? The desire for freedom—of speech, religion, assembly, economic activity, political affiliation, etc.—is a natural human instinct. There’s only one way to suppress this innate desire: force. If civilians own firearms in any significant number, the state cannot impose its will on the people.
As Chairman Mao said, political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. As NRA Veep Wayne LaPierre said, he who owns the guns makes the rules. If the brutally repressed Chinese people own guns, the Chinese fascist state will fall. It’s as simple as that.
For Chinese “activists,” 3D printable guns have a distinct advantage over their metallic counterpart. Once the printer and materials are secured, fabricators can produce hundreds of thousands if not millions of plastic guns with relative stealth (e.g., fabrication noise) and ease (e.g., no metal working).
If the Chinese populace was armed, it’s entirely possible, indeed probable, that the country’s centralized government, a.k.a., the world’s biggest police state, would topple. In that sense, Cody Wilson’s downloadable DIY gun could well be the Liberator he claims. As far as the American Powers That Be are concerned, that’s not necessarily a good thing.
Whenever a political system crumbles and/or collapses, its death throes create a period of economic, social and political chaos. The system becomes destabilized. At the risk of going all Alex Jones on you, the United States Department of Defense and State Department don’t want a destabilized People’s Republic of China any more than does the People’s Republic of China.
Nuclear/military worries aside, the economic implications of a violent political upheaval in China are mind-boggling. The PRC owns more than a trillion dollars in U.S. Treasury bills, notes and bonds. In 2011, the U.S. imported $200b worth of stuff. We need them as much as they need us. At some point, more.
Connecting the dots, could a plastic gun lead to a popular uprising, lead to the end of the Chinese government, lead to a major disruption of the world economic system? Like I said, Alex Jones-land. But . . . the U.S. government shut down Cody Wilson. At the request of the PRC? Or off its own back?
Either way, it makes sense to me. But then I’m not an oppressed resident of the People’s Republic of China. Or any other country.
Except as easy as it was for Cody to design this gun, surely hundreds of others across the world will design another. It cant be “uninvented” and the tide has only just begun.
Interestingly, the ATF document discussing the domestic law pertaining to 3D printing has also been disappeared.
Used to be here: https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/pdf-files/atf-qa-on-3d-gun-priniting.pdf
At least until yesterday: see here: http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2013/05/batf_position_o.php
Anybody got a upload link of that one to recirculate in the wilds outside the bureaucratic zoo?
OK…but really….Cody Wilson? You think that the nation of people that produces most of the electronic devices we use (and you probably typed this post on one) CAN’T figure out on thier own how to make a plastic printed pistol of their own? C’mon…take off the tin foil.
That aside, the cat is out of the bag…that file is in the public hands now, being open sourced, torrrented, dropbox’d, and shared worldwide. Even if CW can’t post designs on DEFCAD anymore…you can’t stop the internet…:)
There’s a good reason why a readme file in Chinese is included with the Liberator. The zhongdiag.jpg is also easier leaked past the communist internet censors. Is it also any coincidence that 3D printers are just now taking off in China?
And why are we helping the Chinese keep their people in check? Just think of this as the return salvo for their hack attacks on our systems. Buhhhhhaahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha!!!!
This is not the first I’m I’ve said it today. It will not be the last: YOU CAN’T STOP THE SIGNAL.
I’m sure people in china have the design already. We have also shown in the past that we have followed the democracy for me but not for thee policy in our support of dictators. I don’t think there is any goal of preventing people in China to overthrow the government, I think this boils down to the .gov losing control and trying anything to regain it. Of course it’s too late.
It’d be much easier for the average Chinese citizen to build a firearm from shop tools. It’s really not that difficult.
Disagree. It’s not China. It’s Chuck Schumer, Steve Israel, and a legion of bootlicking (deal w/it, MattInFL) scum that want to see him shut down. They’ll use anything they can to achieve this goal.
+1
Barring some evidence to the contrary, it is much more likely some panicked flunkie in the administration sent around an email asking if any agency had the authority to get the plans pulled off the internet.
I’m not saying the Chinese angle is impossible, it just seems much less likely in the absence of evidence.
The thing about a thought or an idea the more you try to suppress it, the more it comes to life. He may have been forced to take the material down, but it has been in media form for too long to stop it now. It will keep popping up over and over again. You can watch me all you want. That stuff doesn’t interest me!
no, i don’t think we’re winning. i think the gun community is becoming more ideologically unified and resolving some internal cultural issues, which is great, but vis a vis the broader culture, i think we’re pretty toast.
The NE US just fell. CA will go full retard in a matter of months. Here in the Bay Area, people matter-of-factly talk of repealing the 2A, as if that is the most obvious thing to do.
These are the most populous areas in the country. If we were winning, we would have some momentum here. We don’t. Court cases won’t change that. If anything, any victories will just piss them off more. Don’t expect young people to step in either.
Gun ownership in this country will be a fond memory by 2050.
So many implications. The government hasn’t shut down a physical liberator pistol operation. They shut down the free distribution of a piece of intellectual property… in an attempt to shut down an idea. It’s the functional equivalent of banning a book. It’s an encroachment on both the first AND second amendments.
Which is exactly what Mr. Wilson wanted. Effectively eliminate governments’ ability to regulate arms? Check. propagate the IDEAS of privately held arms and the armed citizenry to the world? Check. Bait governments into showing their true colors? Check.
A masterstroke. The world has changed.
I have to agree with the others here, if it was in the will of the Chinese people to throw off their government they would have done so already.
They tried. Remember Tiananmen Square?
From the looks of all of the improvised firearms on this webstite:
http://improguns.blogspot.ca/
China doesn’t need 3D printed guns.
This blog is awesome. it appears some of the more refined batch produced models are created by/for organized crime.
“You betta shut guy down, oh we gonna laise yo intlest late”
This is well beyond Alex Jones territory. By and large the Chinese population is quite happy about how things are going. There is dissent and by the absolute numbers is significant. However, support for the government is brittle but it is tied to economic progress and not political reform. The biggest market for guns are the Tongs and Uigher terrorists. Neither group has any trouble getting conventional arms. And social upheaval gives the US an opportunity to stiff China on the debt.
Exactly. Could China erupt in broad insurrection? Possibly, but it will be because of economic anger and carried out with Type 56es and QBZ-95es; not sparked by and carried out with Liberators.
Robert, I believe 9/11 was indeed an inside job, but this is tin foilish, lol. Asians are fairly comfortable with their tyranny and I don’t think firearms ownership would have the effect you claim it could.
I think the reason the gunvernment (sic) shut it down here (not really) is that they don’t want US making cheap guns. You can already make expensive guns with one of those programmable drills/laser thingies but they cost a lot and require more technical skill than using a 3D printer.
HAPPY HAPPY suicide nets. Fool.
The Feds are saying that you can’t make any drawings of any arms on the Munitions List and put them on the internet. That means technically speaking if you draw some conceptual drawings of futuristic weapons or armored vehicles or submarines and put your drawings, which may just be conceptual artwork, on the internet, the Feds are going to come and prosecute you for illegal export of technical data for munitions list items. Totally absurd and so is this case.
I cannot imagine hundreds of millions of Chinese Citizens armed with these Liberators standing up to the Peoples’ Army, nor do I think there’s a Chinese National will to do so, even if properly armed. Ordinary Chinese People are feeling empowered by the “weibo” system and many feel “things are improving” for them at a steady rate. While hundreds of millions still live in abject poverty (too occupied with putting the next meal on the Family Table to be politicized to rebel), hundreds of millions believe they are experiencing a better life.
The idea that the Chinese are just straining at the reins to rebel and throw out the Communist Party is another American Fantasy – like the one that Saddam Hussein was stockpiling WMD’s and the Iraqi People were just praying for some Foreign Power to invade their country so they could throw both arms wide open to embrace the sweet charms of Liberty and Freedom.
The Liberator Pistol is an interesting “Proof of Concept” and anathema to the gunphobes in power in the US today. But seriously to use it in an anti-personnel role you would have to be close enough to lay hands on your target, so its value is stealth, but its lethal effectiveness is unproven. Meantime, since the gunphobes feed on disinformation and lies, it makes a “terror object” to offer to the ignorant masses as evidence those “gun crazies” are up to pure evil and are “everything bad and perverse we’ve been telling you all along”.
The point that the US Government does not want instability in the PRC is, I think, correct and well-taken, but the Liberator as a source for potential political/social instability in China is too far a stretch at this point. I think the US Government shut down the Liberator downloads out of fear some home grown nutcase, who hasn’t enough sense to know better, would try to assassinate political figures and out of pure spite to send a message to gun owners that the Government won’t put up with this kind of stuff.
I am no expert, but I have worked for the Feds and some politicians, and I believe this was more than likely instigated by one senior politician who heard something in passing about homemade guns that could defeat x-ray machines and told a staff flunky that “something” needed to be done. Cue phone calls to various agencies, people brainstorming ideas to shut Cody down, and finally settling on the nasty letter route which did scare him into complying. Honestly, considering all the government attorneys who were caught surfing for porn forty hours a week without doing any work, you got to look busy when the boss calls.
Five bucks says Schumer will brag about how he has saved us from homemade guns that terrorists could use to sneak past security and deprive us of one of our elected representatives… Oh the horror… (Sarcasm off)
Could have fooled me.
I remember decades ago when the same technique was used to try to stop the spread of the PGP encryption program. NSA hated it because it couldn’t be broken and didn’t have a Government “backdoor” in it. The answer: Many people printed sections of the source code on t-shirts, flew overseas and dropped off the shirts, and someone keyed in the code. Now it’s “rinse and repeat” Internet style…
All I can say to the Chinese Communist party is good luck. Any attempt at censorship short of destroying the internet forever is futile and “computer security” is a great marketing ploy to con old people into giving you their money. Hackers can break into anything from the newest video game to a full fledged government facility, we’ve seen them do it countless times. Any computer can be cracked like a walnut, it just takes time and effort. Once the experienced guys do all the heavy lifting, it’s just a matter of getting that file out to as many hard drives as possible.
A lot of people are saying “so what” and not seeing the forest for the trees. We’ve witnessed history in the making on a world wide scale. Will governments around the world stop trying to disarm people? Of course not. BUT, any plan to disarm a populace just got its nose broken; and a broken nose never heals back to its original shape perfectly.
I haven’t seen the internal workings, but I’m pretty sure that thing would blow your hand off with a Tokarev round in it. It’s more of a statement than a usable piece.
There are many ways the Chinese people could acquire or make guns, most wouldn’t be willing to risk it. This changes nothing in China.
You’re reaching on this one.
China can easily set up shops to make working replicas of any gun out of metal.
It was taken down because someone in the government saw it as a threat. ITAR was just a convenient regulation to use to suspend the site. Sort of like getting Capone on tax evasion.
This is a ridiculous reach.
The PRC is a manufacturing power house that can reverse engineer any mechanical product just by looking at pictures of it. They are also adjacent Russia. Their government tightly controls the internet. If a revolution is in the offing, even potentially, its not going to be because of a 3D printed gun – why would it when they already have the knowledge and manufacturing capability to make “real” firearms. If a dedicated and secret revolutionary group wanted to start an insurrection they would either secretly manufacture their on “real” fire arms, or smuggle them in from neighboring countries.
No, the threat here is not the gun…its the IDEA of the gun the IDEA of ubiquitously accessible arms. And that threatens ANY government – ours, China’s, Russia’s….EVERY government.
What Cody has done is begin to peel the friendly mask of the would be parent to reveal the monster that it hides. The reaction by the government is a poker tell that clearly shows what hand they hold. Are we paying enough attention to win the pot? Too soon to tell, but I hope so.
I looked at the Colt Mustang yesterday, a beautiful gun. HOWEVER, I notice that the Colt magazine clips aren’t the quality to my 380 Sig P238 stainless clips. Since the clips are interchangeable & functional on both models, I’d suggest Sig clips for the Colt — much better.
I’ll bet most of the people rocking AR platforms in this country have enough added doo dads to make any weight difference between the 2 types, the AR and the AK, to be meaningless. And I’ve never heard of or seen a person having trouble handling the recoil of the 7.62×39 round. I have mild arthritis and it doesn’t bother me.
“Gun ownership in this country will be a fond memory by 2050.”
Not true. Legal gun ownership will be severely restricted in Blue Hive states and locales but gun ownership will still be rampant. It’s important to remember that there are large areas of the country where no amount of collectivist bullying will kill the gun culture because it’s too embedded in the American character.
What will happen is that the country will become so polarized on this and other issues like Obamacare that state nullification and outright rebellion against the Progressive Fascist elites will become common. The American Empire is crumbling and when it falls apart, as it inevitably will, our enemies will be shattered, demoralized and vulnerable. If those of us who cherish our liberty unite and act in a bold, concerted and resolute way we can defeat the forces of tyranny. We need to focus on the local level like the leftists do, by creating sanctuary cities, counties and whole states where these noxious Federal laws are widely ignored with impunity. We must start at the micro level and do what the leftists call “community organizing”. It won’t work everywhere but so what?
We can defeat these evil statist ba$tards and b-itches if we get organized and show that in order to enforce their world view they will have to kill many thousands of us. Do you really think these Birkenstock wearing, latte sipping, electric clown car driving pencil necks have the stomach for that? Ultimately we will have to call their bluff and watch them blink and gulp hard. We must draw a very clear line in the sand and dare them to cross it.
Sooner or later we will have to show that we are willing to risk our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor to protect our inalienable rights. If only a million of us do this in an organized, courageous and effective way then we will win. Ultimately our enemies are sniveling cowards and arrogant, loud mouthed, decadent fools. And pay back will be a b-itch for them in ways that will leave them dumbfounded and scared $hitless.
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I’m still waiting to see the London Liberator that was teased.
“Reminds me of that fellow back home that fell off a ten story building. As he was falling people on each floor kept hearing him say, ‘So far, so good.'”
We’ll figure out who won or lost when the game is over, okay? Meanwhile, so far, so good.
Instead of the segmented snake with the motto “Don’t Tread on Me,” we should adopt the porcupine logo with the motto “Keep Your Hands off My @ss.” Then we can show our colors at every TSA checkpoint.
I’ll buy some 300 AAC Blackout the next time I see some in my LGS. The same goes for 5.56 NATO and 9mm Luger. And 7.62 NATO, .40 Cal. and .38 SPL. Oh, and let’s not forget .22LR.
I miss them all. Sniff.
Confirmed: I am a satisfied user for about 1 year now.
It works as advertised although the factory ammo I purchased was too short to feed reliably. I load my own supersonic (155gr FMJBT) and subsonic (220gr HPBT and 178gr AMAX) rounds and with some tuning of the cartridge length have zero problems. Recipes are on my site if you’re interested.
The main attraction to me is that this is an alternative caliber that runs with all the standard 5.56 AR components except for the barrel (although its less hassle to just buy a dedicated upper for the BLK). It’s very flexible and cost effective that way.
I wonder what the Saudi Royal family is thinking about the Liberator plastic gun…
China isn’t the only fascist, repressive police state on the globe.
No, but a Chinese citizen accounts for almost 20% of the human population. If you had
to know only two languages, English and Chinese would allow you to travel practically anywhere in the world and do business.
I just sold my CMMG 300 BLK upper when ammo went over $40/box before shipping. I haven’t seen 300BLK ammo in stores for months, while most everything else has been slowly coming back around here.
Love mine. As an excercise in potential futility, I started building one in January. Finished in March for about 850 bucks.
Learned how to make my ammo watching Mr. Leghorn on youtube.
Called up Barnes bullets in Utah when all the websites had no projos. Ordered 500 rounds and they were here in 5 days. Scored 1,000 147 grain from Pat’s.
This is a kick butt round!
Haven’t started experimenting with sub-sonic loads yet. Hitting my foot square plate at 400 yards with no problem.
Love it.
Just got into the AR15. Do you guys tend to own a lot of complete AR15 rifles in different calibers, or lots of complete upper assemblies that you switch on a smaller number of lowers?
-D
I’m just glad I read this review. I don’t have much interest in AKs, but I did purchase some Klimosvk ammo last year. I haven’t shot it yet, but I’m glad I haven’t. If the ammo I bought is corrosive, I’m glad I know now.
Corrosive ammo isn’t a big deal. And though I generally clean my weapons right away, sometimes it doesn’t get done. I’d be pissed if I took out my rifle a couple days later and had rust all over the inside from this ammo. When it’s supposed to be non-corrosive.
I still have my tactical Betamax machine for sale at a friendly price.
Anybody who’s ever been to China knows this is BS. They don’t worry about such things as an armed revolt against the government. The citizens of China know that they are as good as dead if they want to go up against the government. China doesn’t coddle their criminals like the U.S.A. does, they kill them. Also, if you have a few 1000 yuan in your pocket, a handgun is easily available.
Not until we see a dramatic drop in price and a rise in availability. Right now it’s like paying for 93 octane fuel vs 87 octane. There might be some performance benefits in the Super, but for a daily driver the Regular (5.56) gets the job done just fine.
Music to my ears (figuratively speaking) … Thank you.
This is an assault on the “thorty” of bama. The sheep/guberment relationship depends on a strong sense of gov invincibilty. Sorry, the gun was in their face big time & laughing at them(hey if a gun needs to be controlled it can laugh too), Randy
I would like to learn much from this lady, in a personal one on one training session preferably.
I’ve heard it said that 5-10% of your customers will cause 90% of your problems. If you “fire” those customers as you identify them, you will be better off for it in the long run.
In South Central Alaska (Anchorage – Wasilla) we haven’t seen rifle and pistol powders in stores since January. Ditto for primers. Darn little brass; mostly odd stuff. Bullets are spotty. Ammo: Shelves are mostly empty; Zero .22 LR except a little at gun shows that goes for $75 – $100 per brick; no .223, 9mm, .45 ACP; rarely .308, .30-06, & .300 Win Mag, but that disappears in hours. Ditto .38 Special, .357 mag, & .44 mag.
Gun safes are pretty well sold out, too…maybe to store private ammo supplies that have now become more valuable than gold.
RF:
You touched on a very important point. The inability for Newtown to properly heal as a community. We’ll know they’ve truly healed once they take collective ownership of what happened at Sandy Hook. Nowhere have I heard a resident of Newtown say something to the effect of, “…the shooter was one of us. He grew up in town, went to our schools, knew our kids, ate at our restaurants, shopped in our stores, etc. He was hiding in plain sight and everyone missed it.” Certainly, no one could’ve forecasted Sandy Hook, but those who knew shooter all described him as odd and troubled. We should in no way assign blame to the residents of Newtown for the creation or actions of this monster, but Newtown should know that only after they own it, positive and effective changes will follow. Like it or not, Newtown will forever be known as “that place that had that elementary school shooting”.
So, the author of this article, without just saying it, supports the control of the financial rulers of society and doesn’t believe that a society has the right to “throw off the shackles of a dictatorship”.
A little history that is hidden from 99% of Americans…….the American Revolution was not about tea or stamps. Look up “The Currency Act”. All oppression is fed by the rule of the money lenders. I believe even Jesus beat these people in the streets.