edc everyday carry ccw backup gun
Courtesy everydaycarry.com
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Reader W.B. Reimer writes:

I read yesterday’s post on realistic CCW training and wanted to say how timely this was, since I inadvertently “triggered” someone online today by posing a question about his choice of EDC.

He carries a GLOCK 43, a spare mag, one of those little pocket revolvers in .22 magnum and a pouch with extra rounds, a couple of knives, flashlight, etc.

Perhaps I could have been less caustic and not asked where he lived; Beirut or Kandahar? I wasn’t challenging his right to carry all of that. I expressed my envy, since I live in Canada.

I was, however, asking about the rationale behind not just being armed, but armed to the teeth, allegedly every time he leaves his house.

In spite of having been an avid firearms enthusiast and competitor for almost half a century, I don’t get it. Why is that much firepower needed?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the number of police officers who regularly carry a backup weapon are still in the minority, and if one believes everything on Live PD, they all draw down on a bad guy at least once an hour, every shift.

If the coppers don’t all carry a backup, can someone explain to me why someone on civvie street feels the need?

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  1. There is no virtue is being less armed than you could be so you don’t think you’re paranoid.

    There is no virtue in being loaded down with redundancies because you can’t think clearly about what you do and do not need.

    There IS virtue in people like the author who have an open mind and a civil tongue.

    And whether there’s virtue in this post I have no idea.

    • why not?….it’s a personal choice…that little mini goes with me everywhere…irregardless of whatever else I might have available….

      • Good for you, but that doesn’t mean you’re any better than someone who carries one. That’s what I meant, but I guess I didn’t say it too clearly.

      • Unless I know there’s going to be a metal detector or a frisk, I ALWAYS have my pocket gun.

        Whenever possible / feasible / all other times, I *also* have something larger with more capacity in an IWB.

        Because: reasons.

    • “Battle Rattle” when applied to a guy going to Walmart is a pejorative term.

  2. Ok don’t shoot let me get my wallet, sometimes the primary doesn’t fit in a pocket and you are already up the creek.

  3. Same reason why one might have a fire extinguisher is multiple rooms, or a multi-faceted insurance policy that covers more than liability. You never know what is going to happen and some people feel better having more than one plan or feature to their security. In a scuffle, one could lose their primary weapon, fail to properly reload, or experience a jam. Sometimes drawing a backup gun is faster than dealing with a malfunction. When seconds count, split seconds may make all the difference.

  4. The philosophy is you can bring your snubbie into action faster than you can reload, and if you have a malfunction, the snubbie is theoretically going to go bang, even from contact.

    Considering many snubbies weigh 13-14 ounces, and some are even pleasant to shoot (Ruger LCR), not a bad idea if you’re going somewhere dangerous.

    • Seems logical but he’s not carrying a snubbly and what happens if he gets shot and need something to stop the bleeding. I don’t see any hemostats or tampons in his EDC?

      • Oddly enough this question came up a lot in my old unit. End assumption (would love data but not an easy collection) was if you are in an area that warrants one gun you will have timely access to critical care. If you are in an area without that kind of medical attention you are more likely to carry a rifle/shotgun and not really need a pistol but whatever works. As to the health rants yes everyone should hydrate, exercise, diet appropriately and carry meds but the hell with posting HIPPA online.

      • Tampons are number one on the list for the trauma kit great for plugging a gunshot wound til you can get proper aid..

        • No. No. No. No.

          Tampons draw blood to a wound to soak it up. That is the exact opposite of what should be done.

          TQ and a hemostatic agent/gauze. Never use a tampon unless it is for a uterus shedding the lining.

        • Yeah, no. See below. Cut off blood flow, don’t suck the blood out.

          Also I believe there was a great article posted here about how no amount of medical care is usually going to fix the type of wounds that are fatal.

  5. Because this is the USA and if they want to carry more than one weapon it’s their right. Frankly I don’t understand why anyone cares what anyone else carries. Carry a bazooka if you want. “If the coppers don’t all carry a backup, can someone explain to me why someone on civvie street feels the need?” The answer is, “It’s none of your business.”

    • He’s just curious. He also reaffirmed your right to do what you want.

      So yes, it’s none of his business, but seems to me that a civil question deserves a civil answer unless it violates your privacy or something.

      • I don’t find the Beriut/Kandhar crack respectful.
        I take it in the same light as the claim you don’t need a gun from some one who lives in a gated community in an affluent neighborhood who works days and in a controlled access building.

        • I took it as a joke, but I can’t disagree with you either.

          I don’t think that’s what he’s saying at all. I think he’s just saying since you probably don’t need four knives and two guns, so why do you do it?

          I could be wrong but I thought he was just curious, even if the Kandahar comment shows him to be a skeptic.

      • I don’t need anyone to “reaffirm” my rights or my decisions. Many if not all of the problems in this country could be solved if people would just mind their own business and not freak out when someone does or says something that they don’t understand or approve of. On another note I especially don’t care what someone from Canada thinks of any of my self defense options.

        • You’re right, but that still doesn’t mean you should refuse to explain to someone why you do what you do.

        • Dear OmnivorousBeorn, Are you stubborn or just thickheaded? I have no desire or need to explain to anyone any of my choices except to my wife and God, and that might be redundant. When someone calls you who you don’t know, do you: a) not answer the phone b) not answer any questions they may have, or c) tell them your life history and why you make all the decisions you make. I’m guessing you choose answer c.

        • @dph Let’s not get into false dilemmas. Also I understand: You don’t like to tell people stuff you don’t have to. That’s your right. Maybe the block for me is that I don’t understand why you’re here when all you have to say is “I don’t want to tell you.”

          FWIW, I’m not sure what your three choices prove, but your guess is 100% wrong.

        • Good grief. Are you a psycho or just an asshole? I’d tell you what I think but it’s none of your business. I only share my thoughts and feelings with Barbara the coonhound and my diary.

  6. As I posted yesterday SOMETIMES there’s more than one miscreant attacking you…a LOT more. Be prepared. FBI stats won’t help if you’re in the middle of a “wilding” attack!

    • The question is how did you get caught alone on Michigan Avenue during the day? A situationally aware person should be able to spot a group of rambunctious yoots running wild and make an exit. Besides, if the first round doesn’t make them take off they are going to stomp you to death anyway.

      You remind me of my late father-in-law who wouldn’t leave the house unattended because someone was just waiting for him to leave so they could steal his stuff, don’t you know.

  7. No disrespect but discourse from a Canadian on this subject seems a bit bizarre. As an example I can’t speak to backups in Canada but they are very common in the United States. Some departments even issue two weapons and mandate their use.
    Before we lambast carrying a second gun ask your self how does this differ from carrying a Benchmade knife or a crenulated flashlight along with your j frame.

    • A knife can be a critical tool (maybe the most important) and the thing about flashlights with sharp pointy things on the front is if you set it bezel down your not likely to forget to turn it off and kill your battery and light can be more important than a gun in a real emergency situation.

  8. Well to start with, it’s not the bill of needs…

    And secondly, “that much firepower” is not a lot of firepower.

    Thirdly, “Perhaps I could have been less caustic and not asked where he lived; Beirut or Kandahar?” there’s plenty of places inside the US that can be just as dangerous.

    Fourth, what’s with all the judgement around here lately? TTAG has always been a place that gets bitter from time to time but lately it seems like everyone’s super freakin judgemental about how/what someone carries. Maybe you should be asking yourself some questions like, Why does it bother you so much that someone isn’t carrying how you see fit? Why does it matter to you so much how someone else does something that has no effect on you? Maybe the issue is with yourself?

    Look, I only carry a .38 and a knife. That’s it. But if someone else wants to carry a full combat load more power to them. I know a guy who carries 3 .45s everywhere he goes. It’s a bit ridiculous, but who cares, it’s what he likes.

    • It’s not but then again this is likely not the streets of Mogadishu or Bodymore and if you’re so concerned about a highly unlike gun battle then you should have a full on med kit, body armor, escape kit, sat phone or something else that is just unlikely to happen as most who die aren’t killed by guns but heart attacks or car accidents. Maybe he should show us what hes having for dinner to judge how really serious about living he is.

  9. If you have two carry guns and two knives then you should reasonably have a tourniquet, needle/sutures, a back up phone (can be flip), two mags each or four total, a lighter and water proof matches, iodine tablets, low dose aspirin and possibly flares. If you don’t then you’re not truly prepared for an unlikely scenario as being stranded, bleeding out, heart attacks and strokes are far more likely to happen to you when your “out” then getting mugged or any other active shooter situation.

    • So if I only carry one gun, I can drop the tournequet ?

      But do I get to keep the matches?

      And does it vary if I carry two semi autos?

      Revolver and an auto ?

      Is it based on poundage or round count?

      • What should have been an obvious point it how is one worried about losing or needing a BUG during a massive gun battle but not worried about having a heart attack alone on an empty street breaking your one cell phone and not having aspirin to take to hopefully live to get help???????.

        • Sounds like you worry about different things.

          If you need meds, they would be part of an EDC.

          I dont ride around worrying that my truck is not meteor-proof.

          Since I tend to carry small guns that are light, it is fairly easy to drop another in a pocket or iwb.

          Not so easy to carry and AED in my pocket. Although I do carry a tournequet.

          I may carry matches now after our conversation.

      • I have been known to carry three firearms from time to time. I should probably look into purchasing an ambulance in the near future for these occasions.

  10. I don’t carry a backup for the same reason I don’t wear both a belt and suspenders. I think the odds of my main carry malfunctioning is about the same as my belt or suspenders breaking. I’m willing to take that chance as I have all my life.

  11. Because shit happens, and it’s best not to be downstream from it when it cuts loose…

  12. I think the answer is because he can …..and wants to.

    I carry an LCP most of the time.

    Sometimes I carry an LCR or Glock 43 in addition to my primary (LCP).

    • Specialist 38,

      There is another serious reason to carry a backup gun: you can hand it to a trusted person with you if a nasty attack happens.

      • This is true. But i am often by my lonesome when out and about.

        That is the reason I carry two when I go the movies with my wife or daughter.

        Although my wife carries most of the time now. And she has a small light, not just a cell phone.

        And a second gun is a much faster reload. Or so they say in New York….cops anyway…cause humans cant carry in NYC.

      • Specialist 38,

        Also thought of another reason to carry two guns:

        My (insert favorite expletive) neighbor across the street has three BIG hyper aggressive German shepherds that get loose and roam the neighborhood as a pack. If I happen upon all three of them in close proximity, I literally want a handgun in each hand to fend them off. (Dog packs like to surround their target and attack from all sides simultaneously. I certainly cannot shoot left and right simultaneously.)

        And I want more than 5 shots (typical snubbie revolver) to fend off three extremely fast/agile animals: rather I want at least 14 rounds total (minimum 7 rounds in each hand).

        • Understood.

          And with some experience in dog attacks, I suggest contact wounds for the trained dogs like shepherds.

          Fighting more than one is hard and fighting three is an exercise in faith.

        • Specialist38,

          I have no idea what you mean when you recommended “contact wounds”. Can you explain that?

          As for fighting three dogs being an exercise in faith, I don’t really have much of a choice in the matter since I have no way to predict when they will be out on the loose and I am outside a lot. Plus, I would much rather that I face those dogs than my children.

          This situation really sucks. If I lived in a rural area and three wolves kept menacing my family and neighbors, I would proactively hunt down those wolves. Unfortunately my state’s laws regard such proactive solutions as felonies in this situation because those dogs belong to someone.

        • I *think* he means put the muzzle in direct contact with the dog.

          The serious downside to that is the teeth and jaws of the dog…

        • Geoff PR,

          Assuming that Specialist38 meant to shoot the dogs with the barrel in contact with the dogs, I believe that is unwise for two reasons:
          (1) That may cause my semi-auto pistol to malfunction (not feed the next cartridge and/or fail to go into battery).
          (2) Three dogs attacking me simultaneously are going to shred me if I wait until I can touch them with my defensive handgun — which means I have to try and incapacitate at least one (if not two) of them before they are at contact range.

        • All… I did mean press the muzzle into the dog.

          And yes, you’re going to be bitten.

          Hard to hit an instantly-fatal shot on a running dog.

          The contact wound does a tremendous amount of damage and yes it may foul the gun…..even a revolver.

          Kinda like knife fighting ….. you are going to get hurt.

          If you can hit the brain bucket on a charging dog ….. hats off.

          I will take the charge and press the gun into its chest as I fire. I know that is effective.


        • Specialist38,

          Thank you for the feedback and suggestions.

          I am in total agreement that I will be unlikely to drop a charging dog with a single shot at distance. I figure it doesn’t hurt to try, though!

          Here are the Physics involved. Those German shepherds can easily run at 30 m.p.h. which is 44 feet per second. At that speed, it is pretty much impossible for anyone to be able to put incapacitating shots on all three dogs before at least one of them can bite me. (It is unlikely that I can legally justify shooting those dogs until they are probably within 15 feet or so which means those dogs would finish their charge in 1/3rd of a second and be able to bite.)

          That, unfortunately, is why I am mentally prepared to sustain significant injuries at contact range.

  13. “Why Does a Concealed Carrier Bother With a Backup Gun?”

    Why have vehicle insurance…??? Homeowners…??? Rental…???

    Because, you just never know when you’re going to need it…

    • And how many times have you used auto, home or medical insurance vs number of gun battles?

      • Marcus,

        I have used auto insurance exactly once in my entire life. And I have used homeowner’s insurance exactly zero times in my entire life. Come to think of it, I cannot come up with a single person I know who has ever made a homeowner’s insurance claim. And yet we all continue to purchase and maintain homeowner’s insurance.

        • Used my homeowners insurance once to replace my roof after Hurricane Charlie.. Between early 1968 and mid 1972 I was in a gunfight almost daily, so I guess I lost count but I’m pretty sure it’s more than once. I have used my car insurance three times and motorcycle insurance once, but since 1972 I have only been in one gunfight…. As far as medical insurance my step son had a number of medical problems as a child and weekly Dr visits were the norm for many years..

  14. Guns, like cars, are 99% personal opinion. Owning, carrying, driving one (or more) is a function of many factors, most are subjective, entirely personal personal to the individual.
    Do you have a gun and a car ? Do they work reliably? If you are reasonably happy with each, then you are adequate and comfortable with your transportation and self-defense needs.
    After that, the truly important things are: 1. Being skilled as a driver and a shooter, and 2. MOST important, knowing the laws by which you can legally and successfully operate both machines, especially under stress.
    As long as you have 1.& 2. covered, I don’t care what you carry or drive. To each his own.

  15. Carry according to your vulnerability. Pathetic as it is, elderly and ill increases the odds of being mugged. Young and in shape to put up a fight are unlikely to draw the attention of dirt bags. Speaking from personal experience.

  16. So I can arm someone else if needed.

    I got locked into a department store storeroom a few years ago due to a suspected active shooter. I was able to discreetly hand off my little LCP2 still the the pocket holster to my friend that was with me. Thankfully it was a false alarm.

  17. “heavily armed?” Not like he has a rifle or a 500 round load out or anything.

  18. I carry with spare magazine, knife and assorted pocket tools and I wonder about whether the BUG carriers think they are living in a war zone, residents of inner city neighborhoods like the South and West sides of Chicago excluded. But what amuses me most are the people who carry two who bitch about how hard it is to carry a 30oz pistol.

  19. When I got my first permit in Philadelphia the police department checked you out first but once I had the permit the detectives got all friendly and said now had the permit, carry two guns. There are two things I will say about that. One is that having a backup feels good. Since I had the permit in relation to my employment backup was a good idea. The second thing is the fastest reload is another gun. Right now I don’t have a permit but I do have a nice knife on my belt, a multitool, three small flashlights, a Gerber Shard, spare batteries to fit 2 sizes of small lights, and even though I no longer smoke, anAtomic lighter. And this doesn’t include the heavy duty people poking glass breaking ballpoint in my shirt pocket. I was once a director of security for a company in Philly and started carrying most of this stuff more than 30 years ago so it is a part of me. Since then it has helped get vehicles running, repaired doors and gotten me out of 2 malfunctioning elevators. Oh, I almost forgot the paracord belt I bought a few years ago.

    • Well……if you had the right holster…wore different clothes…carrries a backpack…or just tried harder…….you could.

    • you are just not trying…. One ITW one at your back, one on each ankle, one in a shoulder rig, one in your strong side front pocket and one in each inside pocket of the jacket you need to cover the shoulder holster, minimum of eight… Try harder, be creative, fanny packs, man bags?

    • I have an OLD issue of Guns and Ammo where John Bianchi was carrying about 20 guns in a tux.

      Funny to see where they all were in later photos.

      But I never wear a tuxedo.

  20. Had similar conversation with gun store owner few months back, his position was if shoot more than you need to stop the threat, you’re going to jail.

      • Cop told me shoot the asshole til he stops trying to do whatever made you shoot him in the first place… “I was in fear for my life and I just don’t know how many times I fired” Stand your ground means just that and no one can question another persons reaction to a life threatening situation…… Just make damn sure you are right before you pull the trigger…

        • Yep. Cause the alternative is them sorting it out with you not there anymore…..ever.

  21. One size need not fit all. Each individual has to strike a balance between convenience and security depending upon their own needs and priorities. It’s a little like the difference between packing light and packing heavy when going on a trip.It’s more convenient not to be lugging around a big heavy suitcase but then it can be nice to have more clothes and your laptop with you.Carrying that first gun makes the biggest difference in a person’s security. Having a back up increases security but not nearly so much as that first gun does.

  22. I carry a backup in situations where I’m responsible for protecting others and my wife is with me. She can shoot, but doesn’t carry. In the proverbial SHTF situation, the backup airweight could be passed to my wife to increase everyone’s odds of survival. Chances of it ever happening are slim, but it all goes back to the “rather have one and not need it than need it and not have it” rationale.

  23. I carry two guns on occasion and for me its about have access to one gun rather than having the firepower of two. I drive…a lot. So, having an ankle gun, a S&W 642 in addition to my usual appendix carry, for me at least makes sense. Similar considerations apply, during cold weather. I’d rather have two snubbies (one in the pocket, and one on the ankle) than a larger gun which would be difficult to deploy.

  24. I carry a 3″ GP100 and a speed strip and doubt I’ll ever need to deploy either. I could see the logic in carrying a BUG instead of a spare mag though.

      • Yeah, I figure it’s good for a 20 second reload but they’re just too easy to carry not to. Definitely have to find cover before I fire shot #6 though.

        I keep a speed loader in the truck also.

        • Was easier to reload quickly with a an empty round in the middle, but under real duress, I don’t think I could do it.

        • I’ll do the 2 on one end then the 2 on the other end and then the 2 in the middle. I could probably do it in 10 seconds, five if I practiced. But it’s definitely not a mag swap. In an actual defensive reload I’d probably slam the first two in and hope that would be enough.

      • I was in a DGU with a revolver. I did a reload with it and glad I did!! And it was fast just like I practiced.

  25. I think if the guy doesn’t mind carrying all that than great.

    I don’t carry half the stuff typically pictured here, can’t stand the clutter.

  26. I usually only carry one gun, with 2 spare mags, unless I am holding the wife’s for her.

    Why do I need 2 spare mags? I don’t know. If I hit the bad day lottery it might be the powerball instead of just the pick 3? I might be unlucky enough to be in a hotel in Mumbai when a bunch of guys with AKs and an agenda decide to set up shop? I might get caught up in a BLM or Antifa riot and need to fight my way to egress?

    Other things are easier. I carry 3 lights because I worked nightshift for more than 20 years and I usually needed one. If the batteries died a backup was nice. During power failures a couple to share were nice.

    I carry 2 knives and a multi tool because I have needed more than one blade at times, usually to lend or share.

    I carry a fire starting kit because my normal drives have taken me past places where people have gone off the road in winter and not been found until spring or summer.

    I find that the people who know what I carry and are most inclined to nit pick it are also the first to ask me for a knife, or a light, or the multi took, or a lifeboat match.

    To answer the question the author posed to the guy online (which I took as a joke), I live in Mogadishu, Pennsylvania. But I regularly visit Libya, Pennsylvania 😉

  27. I carry a Glock G 29 (10mm) in a shoulder rig with two spare 15 round G 20 mags, and an SCCY 9mm in an ankle holster with two spare mags…. Why? I’m 70 years old and have a tad more arthritis in my off hand and I am concerned that any injury to my strong hand could put me in serious jeopardy as the recoil of the 10mm wears pretty quickly on the weak side and while the SCCY does offer some level of defense it just lacks the stopping power of the 225 grain hard cast lead from the Glock… When I’m out on the Harley I also carry a 12 gauge Coach gun in the trunk and my old (circa 1968) USMC issue Ka-Bar in a boot sheath.. Any one that asks why a back up has never been in a gun fight and obviously never been shot… And yes I could just carry a small 9mm with more mags but where the hell is the fun in that? If you’ve ever seen the look on some assholes face when he stares down the barrel of a 10mm or a 45 you know what I’m talking about…

    • If you want to carry 10mm and you have arthritis problems I recommend a 1911 from to lessen the recoil. You are carrying in a shoulder rig anyway so size should not matter.

      • yeah I sometimes carry a 1911 in 45, lighter and does the job.. The arthritis issue is worse in my L than my R and most likely that jolt of Adrenalin that accompanies life threatening situations would mask the pain long enough to get things done..

        • Specialist38: The suspenders I found on the Internet (and tried) were supposed to be “comfortable.” Instead they are a useless jumble of buckles and adjustable straps, and there is no “comfort” in it. And I get bruises on my body from the metal fittings. So, I’m still looking…

        • Dave …I’m with you. I have like suspenders or braces.

          And I’m old enough to remember dungarees with studs to attach braces.

          I tried those from Duluth and they were decent. For me, they catch on things and get in the way more than hold up my pants.

  28. Just my .02 cents;

    For me, I don’t carry two guns, but I do carry two holsters. I’m a southpaw, which can be a problem if you sit in an American car where the drivers seat is on the left. Seeing as I usually carry inside the waistband, I don’t have much room to draw if I need my carry gun in my vehicle. That’s why I also have a crossdraw holster that I relocate my carry gun into when I’m on the road so make it easier to draw and shoot if I need to respond to a threat on my drivers side window.

    Could I put a second gun in it? Sure, but it’s simply easier to have two holsters, one gun, a spare mag, a leatherman, and an emergency bandage in the space I have. But that’s just me. Someone else is willing to schlep a second gun, more power to them.

  29. The truth is that conceal carriers are all preparing for unlikely events and we each have to choose for ourselves when to stop preparing. If you believe that you may be assaulted in such a way that could cause serious bodily harm or loss of life, then you should choose the tools that will give you the greatest chance of stopping such an assault. If you think that the tools you pick may potentially fail, then you should carry multiples.

    Most trips to the store won’t require a defensive gun use for you to survive, but if one ever does, I hope you are armed.

    Most defensive gun uses will be over very quickly with few shots fired, but if one ever does require extra preparation, I hope you have whatever extra is needed.

  30. The decision to carry a BUG is no different than choosing a caliber, capacity or model primary CCW: it’s what fills a person’s individual requirements. I actually quit reading the “Everyday Carry” articles because they don’t make a bit of difference to what I carry and it shouldn’t matter to other readers either. Show and Tell of carrying a slingshot or to be decked out like John Wick only serves as comment fodder.

    Why carry a BUG: primary gun malfunction can’t be cleared fast enough, NY Reload, can’t access primary gun, primary gun ammo depleted, adversary has partial control of primary gun or just more/exrended fire power. If you follow the “better any gun than no gun” why not “two guns are better than one” if your the person picking the guns?

    A well equipped person will have tools suitable for the clothing, environment and precieved general threat area. BUGs are really no different than adding extra mag(s) or switching from a single stack to a higher capacity with your EDC because your going to a shithole area today, some serial crime spree or flash mob violence in the area.

    Not your monkey, not your circus and you didn’t buy a ticket. Lol

  31. I think the guys who carry too much are funny, too, but I have their back versus Canadian self-importance and false civility. Fakest people on earth, who will claim they “are more civil” than people in the US while THE WHOLE TIME rubbing in your face with undertones like this article that they are superior. “I didn’t do it to attack him, it was just envy.” Yes, probably. And then you attacked him, but not like a man. With passivity. The Passive-Aggressive Empire. I hope the guy buys another gun and carries it in his USA skivvies next to the Ol’ Glory tattoo on his ass. Canada is the land of moral ambivalence and fetid flaccidity.

    • Dipshit, the Canucks were are best allies in Afghanistan. Man-for-man they took the highest casualties of any allied force and were very effective soldiers. So STFU.

      And I happen to agree with him. Unless you are doing security, carrying cash or valubles, or live in a crappy gang infestef part of town if you are carrying a back up gun you are just pretending to be a badass, tacticool kind if guy

      • Afghanistan casualties by country: USA: 2,313. UK: 456. Canada: 157. France: 88. Germany: 57 …. Hmmmmmmm… Seems Canada had little over 2000 troops in Afghanistan from 2001 to 2014 when they ceased all operations, combat operations ended in 2011 and their role was essentially in support of the U.N… When the U.N. announced an increase in troops in 2017 Justin Trudeau announced that Canadian trainers would not be among them… Most of the Canadian casualties were in the battle for Kandahar and 19 were from non combat related incidents.. Go CANADA… Technically the U.S. suffered more casualties than Canada had in country….. You are welcome… and save the name calling for something you might know something about… You might make a point on a percentage basis but don’t wreck your whole argument with that lame crap about “best allies”‘ and effectiveness…

        • What do you think man-fo-man means?

          That is 158 dead not 158 casualties. They suffered 1800 WIA as well. That is pretty heavy toll for the small force committed to the campaign. The Canadians fought and not sit on their asses like most 9f the other allied forces. I suggest you watch the movie “Hyena Road” to get a flavor of the Canadian commitment.

          And I sat on USA-Canada Military Cooperation Committee for four years (2001-2005).

          • You sat on a fucking “BOARD” and that makes you what? Oh, that’s right you saw a MOVIE. In my world CASUALTY does mean DEAD .. Having served in free fire zones in combat I must clarify that I hold the utmost respect for every soldier no matter where they are from for being willing to put their life on the line but I hold nothing but contempt for the politicians who send soldiers to die and the self righteous assholes who sit on BOARDS and hide behind those willing to do whatever it takes to see the job through… (158 dead) we called that a Christmas Day cease fire in Vietnam….. In which over 30,,000 Canadians volunteered to join the U.S. military since the Canadian government would not become officially involved…. (Semper-Fi and welcome home to those who served) Now you STFU….

        • Your world isn’t the real world. In the real world casualties equals KIA + WIA + MIA. The “large scale” Canadian commitment ended in 2011 so the 158 KIA occurred in half the time of the US commitment. US force levels were, at a minimum 15 times larger the Canadian commitment. That is approximately the same number of KIA relative to the force as the US in half the time. I can see arithmatic is not your strong point. The Canadians withdrew most of their forces because they had exhausted their military and had other commitments.

          So in your world working with actual Canadian military and defence personnel conveys no knowledge or expertice but looking stuff up in Wikipedia makes you an expert, huh?

      • Is “tdviina” Canadian for “tiny weiner”? I will say what I want to say where I want to say it, that’s what we can do here in the USA. And yes, Canadians are as a whole the most condescending people on the planet. We work with them, too. What is funny is that even in a room full of Romanians, Poles, South Americans, and Japanese everyone agreed that the Canadian guy was the most passively arrogant. Who cares about your opinion on carry choices? Truly, I cannot emphasize enough how unimportant your existence is to my world. So go back to furiously beating it and typing away, by all means.

        • Unfortunately have to agree. My grad school had a sizable Canadian student body, and while there some very notable exceptions, most were arrogant to the point of being insecure. My opinion is this….Canada remains part of the Commomwealth, along with Australia, India, and several other countries that either never tried or were unable to to break from the Queens of E’s strings. Much of the same insecurity disguised as arrogance exists in Australia as well.

  32. Okay, stand corrected, Cops that carry a backup piece are not in the minority and no, Cops do not draw down on a perp hourly in fact most Cops make their whole careers without ever firing their service weapons except as required for qualification… Most patrol cars are equipped with a pump shotgun and or some variant of the AR platform….

  33. The odds of me getting shot for my wallet are pretty slim.
    The odds of some young thug waving a pocket knife at my face for my wallet are higher.

    So I decided i’m better off with my quick-flick knife and it’s pointy/skinny 6″ stabbing blade.

    However, one time guns did kinda help me (7 of them in my Craftsman tool bag).
    My wife and I were on our way to the gun range and she likes to drive just a couple of miles above the speed limit. A pickup truck with a couple of “yoots” were following and in a hurry, honking their horn and trying to pass. I decided, just in case, to open the tool bag and fondle my stuff.

    My wife, or course, being totally obstinate, did not give an inch. So we pull into the parking lot and as she gets out, sticks both hand up in the air with the middle fingers prominently displayed. The pickup immediately pulls into the next entrance as I’m hauling out the tool bag (with ready pain appliances).

    Lo and behold, at the same time they saw me pull the bag out, they happened to notice the gun store sign. The were stopped right in front of the main entrance. They actually burned rubber backing out….. It was quite hilarious and both of us were laughing like idiots.

  34. This is really getting stupid, now.

    You carry a backup gun for two reasons: 1) possible primary firearm malfunction – which does happen and more importantly *can* happen and can *not* be stated to *never* happen no matter how well maintained your firearm is, and 2) because in some cases a “New York reload” can be quicker than reloading a magazine (depending on how you carry and practice deploying that second firearm.)

    The latter is especially true for those idiots who think carrying a revolver with five or six rounds is “more than enough” to see them through an incident, relying on FBI statistics that show only three rounds fired. The more useful statistic is the NYPD study of police shootings which show that trained cops only hit what they’re aiming at 25 percent of the time. Which means your “five or six” rounds most likely just got reduced to 1.25 or 2 effective hits – which may or may not be sufficient to actually *stop* your attacked from continuing to be a threat (not to mention the outlier case where you face two or more assailants – which *does* happen.

    The “New York reload” concept was invented by the NYPD Police Union because cops at that time were carrying revolvers and repeatedly ran out of ammo and reloading a revolver takes significantly more time than drawing a second firearm (again, depending on whether you train for that.) While the average citizen does not run into as many situations as cops do (even cops don’t, actually), common sense says that when your life is on the line, you prepare for those situations which *may* occur and *have* occurred in the past without relying on statistics that only apply *most* of the time.

    This article, like the last one on “realistic training” – which was also stupid – is oriented to excuse people who 1) carry revolvers as primary firearm or can’t be bothered to carry extra ammo or train for malfunctions, and 2) justify not putting in the effort to think through what personal security in a conflict involving firearms actually entails but just rely on the “I carry a gun, therefore I’m safe.”

    The latter is the equivalent to what I and others in information security see where a company management buys some expensive “blinking light” security device such as a firewall and then assumes they are safe from being hacked. Whereas the reality is that hackers can and regularly do bypass firewalls successfully, frequently in less than an hour of work.

    There is no such thing as “security”. Any level of “security” needs to be thought through to be even remotely close to what may actually be needed when a real conflict arises.

    • Referencing the NYPD is beyond apples to oranges. First, the NYPD uses what, 12 pound triggers on their Glocks? That’s heavy for a DAO revolver. Second, a lot of cops do the absolute bare minimum practice to pass their proficiency test whereas a lot of civilian carriers spend a lot of time training with their weapon. And third, police are paid to chase after bad guys while civilian carriers who chase bad guys usually end up in prison themselves.

      Personally I carry a 3″ .357 loaded with some full power Double Tap stuff and a single speed strip. While I acknowledge that there is a chance that I will find myself in a situation that my 6 rounds @ 600+ft/lbs a piece will not get my out of trouble, my doctor sounded rather impressed with my cholesterol last fall, so perhaps it’s just a matter of your priorities. As I eluded to in a previous comment, if you’re carrying 16 or 18 rounds of 9mm in your EDC perhaps a 12oz (loaded) LCR might make more sense than a 12 ounce loaded magazine. But IMHO if you’re worried about your two guns and 62 rounds of ammunition being enough to stop a threat you should probably be more worried about minimizing your chances of being struck by lightning, since that’s a much more likely scenario.

    • Richard I am not sure where to start. Let me begin by pointing out that comparing police to civilian shootings is pretty pointless. When I was a. Officer thirty years ago my responsibility was to find suspects and forcibly detain them. I would expect a much more severe fight from a man facing twenty years in prison (or perhaps death) then I do from a mugger. My goal now with my”stupid” five shot is to force a”break in contact” with a suspect who doesn’t have as much to loose.
      Put another way why not use the metric of military fire fights? They expend thousands of rounds because they are attempting to suppress organized resistance . Let’s also look at the statistics from New York I recall reading a study comparing shots fired over time. They rose from something on the lines of 5.5 average rounds to the average today. The author argued essentially Officer’s shoot till the weapon is empty irregardless of whether they have a j frame or a MP5.
      Finally all firearms carry is a compromise. I have a severe shoulder injury that precludes me from drawing a belt gun and orienting it . My only choice compromised. As it may be is a pocket gun as I can draw it and from the front bring it to eye level. Would I like a more capable pistol like my Browning Hi My Power yes but that isn’t possible.

    • So…. ….you have revolver and the people that carry them….got it.

      I personally think the public would be better off if cops went back to revolvers.

      While there are some cops that shoot sparingly to address the threat, there seem to be many who dump at least half the mag….take cover…and then dump the rest.

      Since the hit percentage is probably close to what it was with revolvers, that’s a lot of hot lead unaccounted for.

      So…let’s leave autos in the hands of non-LEO to protect the community.

      Ok – this is sarcasm. I dont need to make excuses to carry a revolver. They have worked well for many years and will continue to work well as there are many in use. I guess the poster is worried someone with a revolver may actually defend themselves and he feels he needs an excuse to an auto with two reloads. Sad.

  35. For me personally, I live in a economy apartment (two 30′ x 30′ rooms, bathroom and a hallway).
    No safe, and even if there was one… no place to hide the sucker.
    So I keep my armaments on me all the time.

    Another reason, on the road for work, 100 days a year. Not all of the places would be considered safe (to be honest, the safer places make me more twitchy).
    My back up is for a co-worker if things were to ever go bad and running in the opposite direction is not an option.

    ‘sides, carrying all those tools helps keep my weight down.

    • There is seldom reason for a consensus, unless you’re with friends and trying to determine where to go for drinks or dinner.

        • True. Consensus is a manufactured logical fallacy, ie appeal to authority. It’s often used to give the impression of authority or expertise when there is none.

  36. The author first says “I inadvertently triggered” someone with a previous response and then uses phrases like “armed to the teeth” and “why someone on civvie street feels the need” while pretending that he sincerely wants to know. He should look up the meaning of “inadvertent”. Use of the gun grabbers’ language is an expression of contempt for his audience.

  37. I’m getting really tired of the “you’re a (insert obnoxious label here) because you don’t believe/practice/do what I think you (everyone) should. This forum is supposed to be about respectfully expressing one’s views and opinions, not berating others for having different opinions. I remember an old Bianchi magazine ad showing a man carrying a double digit number of handguns concealed in, of course, Bianchi holsters. Was it excessive? Probably, but SO WHAT! In the USA it’s still legal and if someone wants to do it, that’s their business. Twenty years ago I experimented with carrying a steel frame Kahr 9mm OWB with two reloads, a j-frame in an ankle holster, and a mini revolver in a pocket, plus a “tacticool” folder and a small flashlight. It was a painful and weighty experience, but I gained a newfound respect for cops who carry much more everyday. I learned that I could feel adequately prepared with a polymer Kahr OR a j-frame AND a mini revolver. However, I never felt the total load-out was excessive or weird, just uncomfortable. If someone from Canada doesn’t understand that, respect his questions. In some parts of our world, people wonder why you’re not carrying an AK with at least 120 rounds, a hi-cap 9mm with at least one reload and a large knife. Please learn to respect our differences.

  38. just a thought… you’re not his mom – mind your own business. what do you care what anyone else carries…? and even if you do… keep it to yourself

    jeez – just trying to make up shit to ‘write’ about…. gotta drive those clicks

  39. Hilarious comment section. Long and not worth scavenging.

    I won’t knock someone carrying a secondary, and I personally only carry an extra mag, but as training and common sense goes, the reality is you won’t need either. It’s a balance someone people chose to ignore all together, while others chose to carry heavy just for piece of mind. All I can say is – Do you! Carry what you are comfortable with, and when it comes to a secondary gun, you can’t be judges as if you are carrying 4 knives and 3 flashlights. It’s not the same. Those kinds of carries are pointless and ineffective, but these kinds of carries with a secondary gun are justifiable even if there is only a 1% chance you would ever use it.

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