There’s another camera angle of the incident which explains the matter.Essentially the cops got shafted by lady luck.
The shooter gets into his car before the police,unaware of his presence, walk past him to serve their warrant.The second suspect is take into custody and the shooter then picks that moment to ambush the officers,thus triggering the shootout.Being that BMW has tinted windows with a black interior, there’s no way the officers could know there was someone inside until it was too late.
If that scumbag had any brains he’d have laid low in the car and waited until the five oh left the premesis.Instead his brains were spread onto the sidewalk due to the gunfight he started, and justifiably so.
Well, playing scumbag’s advocate for a moment here, the proper move, if a shootout with the cops was absolutely, completely necessary for whatever reason, was to exit out the other side of the car and use the engine block as cover.
Had the home been under police surveillance, the very presence of the firearm would have triggered a SWAT call. Forget undercover Nissan sedans, there would have been a Boston-style raid with tactic-cooled storm troopers kicking in the door with loaded ARs.
The fact that the cops walked right by the BMW tells me this was just an ugly coincidence. The bad guy got lucky, and then threw it away by drawing down on the police. If the dimwit had any brains, he would have just sat tight until the cops completed their business and left. The police would have driven away totally unaware of his presence. Instead of laughing off a close call in a safe house, he’s in the Miami-Dade county morgue on account of his itchy trigger finger.
So they just happened to roll up in undercovers when homeboy and his buddy were bebopping out of the house? My guess is the guy keeping watch got itchy to join in and blew it for everyone.
Actually, if you watch closely, the first car on scene (white import) backs out of a driveway from across the street. How did that officer miss the guy coming out and getting into the BMW? Sight lines look clear from there.
Between the point where the officer shoots the gunman and the gunman shoots him, you can see that he lowered his pistol. His thought was probably “Ok, I got him good.” Unfortunately, he was still in grave danger.
Yes the longer video at the Miami Herald is more telling. Although it’s tough to do an after action report via armchair it seems like the officers didn’t wait until all assets were on site.
The first officers weren’t situationally aware.
I’m wondering if the officer in the white car across the street that backed in could have better surveiled the suspect who got into the car. Perhaps utilizing his passenger side mirror. I’m thinking he was to fixated on getting the ‘go’ command to start the assault.
Could they have gotten some officers in the house across the street for a better observation post?
The street didn’t appear to be shut down to civilians as it appears at least one civilian vehicle drives through the scene before it is totally under control.
I wondered at first why they didn’t immediately disarm the perp once he was down, but they appear to have lost control of the suspect they had originally collared and were waiting for him to surrender.
I’m thinking the perp who initiated the shootout was also using his own product, perhaps some Cocaine, otherwise he had quite a pair to think he could take out all the LEO’s. Maybe he watched ‘Scarface’ to much.
Ken’s link is good. Once the shooting starts, it looks like one of the cops (the first one down the driveway) shoots behind him, underhand style, without looking, while getting the f*ck out of dodge. You can see dust fly on the lawn from the impacts of his rounds. He’s lucky he didn’t hit one of his partners.
I don’t have any sympathy for the dead bad guy. He made his choices.
I saw the wounded cop also shooting behind himself, with his head (and eyes) totally turned away. My thought was he was lucky to not hit anyone across the street or in a neighboring building. It seemed to me that both the good guys and the bad guys here made some really bad choices. Sorry that the officer got shot, and I am a little sad to see that they let the bad guy lay there and bleed out. The “good guys” are supposed to be better than that in my opinion.
The one thing I saw was police officer three was fixated on the action. Two officers were already handling the guy, the third officer should have been scanning for other threats. This is all about watching your lane and staying aware of the surroundings, situations change. Other than that, the police officers seemed to handle it well. I guess the guy by the tree had a death wish.
Watching the two videos I got the impression that the perp new the cops were coming and that they would not look into the car . Watch the guy when he first appears on the porch until he gets into the car. He knows something is going down. why he chose to attempt the ambush with such a small weapon is beyond me.
Misguided criticism, the officer you are referring to was hit. The actual problem was that all three converged on a single individual, leaving no one in an “overwatch” position, the 3rd officer initially appears to stay back but is then sucked into the action.
First….the video again proves the myth of a “one shot stop.” Unless you are lucky and get a killing shot to the cranium or spinal column in the neck, the bad guys just do not drop over dead with one, two or a few shots.
Second…I did not notice a head shot.
Looks like the perp took several center mass hits and bled out.
The full length video shows a puff of something around the guy’s head followed by him falling immediately to the ground and his gun flipping out of his hand into the air.
Both cops and crims lose tactical surprise. The cops prove that all plans immediately fall apart as they focus on the front door and discover it doesn’t contain the threat. And is there a guy guarding the backdoor? Why not knock the door in plainclothes and try to sell them a magazine before rushing the place? Or act like a crim and follow them home and catch him unlocking his door, keys in hand and very vulnerable? Alternately, the crim should have exited passenger side and used the engine block as cover. Instead he tries to control the situation by holding three cops at gunpoint, as if the cops will politely back down. To “win” the fight, he should have exploited his surprise. Obviously the crim had never shot an El Presidente, especially not one with an added designated hostage target. This video is evidence that the kind of guys that kick doors for the cops are possibly not very careful or thoughtful, and that the crims don’t practice shooting. My two cents: Gunfight for what? Not alot of gunfights over whiskey anymore, hint, hint…
What’s with the generic white Altima and plain clothes? Any jackass can paint “POLICE” on a vest and pretend to be a cop. Why the hell should anyone submit to a pack of dudes who look more like police impersonators than real police?
You go around trying to arrest people looking like that you’re gonna get shot at. I’m not saying that’s what happened here; it’s clear from the video that the dude in the car is a crook, but how can official police go around looking like that?
Wear the fucking uniform. Drive a real police cruiser with the stickers on it. Don’t set yourself up for more trouble by looking like a fake cop.
It’s easy to second guess what the good guys did. They got the job done albeit the wounded officer. The incident can serve as an example of what to do/not to do in the future.
I just hope that the POS lying in his blood and brains was thinking if it was all worth it.
Their (police) tactics sucked. As we so often say, “Get off the X“! The suspect shot the officer closest to the home because he just stood still trying to shoot the suspect. If that officer had been moving toward the house there is a very good chance the suspect would have missed him entirely.
Get out to the woods and practice moving and shooting. Use old t-shirts on sticks for targets because you will see the t-shirt move if you hit it.
The Officers completely missed the bad guy getting in his car.
The 2nd bad guy created a distraction and got everyone’s attention
First bad guy ambushed the Officers.
Whole episode was a matter of 12 seconds.
That was the worst mistake I saw there…and considering it looked like they were waiting or just around the corner there. BUT…the car does have tinted windows, and that shit is hard to see through…especially if there is no movement in the car. Human eyes detect movement before anything else…
I don’t blame the cops for shooting the guy after all they are doing their job arresting the marijuana grower and after all he popped out of a car gun in hand right in front of them. If was forced to be a cop ( I would never do it voluntarily) and forced to arrest the marijuana grower ( I would not do it voluntarily either) I would likely do the same thing. Better shoot him before he shoots me.
stating:
“The question remains why Delgado came out firing at police”
Watching the video several times it appears the 56 year old suspect did not fire on anyone until the cops emptied an entire magazine in him and then he decided to fire back. I don’t really condone lies. Not sure who stated “he came out firing.”
Source further states:
The Delgado family said, the deceased had no criminal history, and Miami-Dade County police records confirmed that. “The people that were living here were good people, decent people, and there was no reason for this,” said a woman who would not show her face on camera.
Loved ones of Delgado Sr. said he did not deserve to die the way he did. “My father was murdered by police last night,” said a choked up Geraldo Delgado Jr., the deceased suspect’s son. “What happened was a strange man was looking around, and my father came out to protect his property, and the strange man turned out to be a police officer that murdered him on the spot.”
The comments from the son and neighbor appear a bit skewed relating to the facts at hand (man steps out of car next to police gun in hand). Not sure what he was thinking stepping out gun in hand – if they were cartel or cops… he would have gotten shot regardless.
That said a man died. I’m not going to have a celebration with comments like “POS” and “good headshot.” If someone were to break into my house and threatened the lives of my family I would certainly shoot him with aim to end his life. That said I wouldn’t have a celebration about it afterward. People here seem pretty “desensitized” to watching a 56 year old guy crawl around bleeding and finally dying. The whole video was tragic – for criminal and cop alike.
Uhhh, the guy definitely came out of his car, gun in hand, pointing it at police officers. They had every right to shoot him. If that guy didn’t want to die, maybe he should have came out of the car without the gun and his hands in the air. It’s really that simple. Cop didn’t fire till he saw the gun. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know pointing a gun at a group of police officers will get you shot. Those guys have a job to do and a family to go home to and provide for. Maybe the bad guy did too, but he was going about it all wrong. The only person responsible for his death is himself. That’s not murder, that’s self defense.
Had I been the bad guy in the BMW I think I would have reversed out of there and made a run for it. Stepping from the car gun in hand into a yard full of cops would not have been my first choice.
But then I’m not a bad guy and it’s hard for me to get into their mindset. As for him not deserving to die that way, he made a choice. A very bad choice. Sometimes stupid hurts to the point of death.
Look, bonehead, I’ve been around TTAG for quite a while and have a few things published on this site.
If you’re not troubled by the militarization of the cops and aren’t worried that this is the kind of screwed up raid that ends up with innocent people killed, then you’re beyond hope.
On top of that, you’re not even willing to question the premise of the raid: growing pot plants. If cops have the time and resources to go after someone who, from first impression, isn’t doing anything incredibly wrong, then perhaps the cops have either too much time on their hands, resources are being misallocated, or, just perhaps, there are way too many cops.
Cops have the time to go after pot growers, but somehow miss that three dirt bags are holding women hostage for over a decade in Cleveland.
You tell me which is the more serious crime and which one the cops should really be looking into.
But hey, if you don’t mind that cops are writing tickets for lemonade stands, then I guess you don’t mind living in a police state.
That’s what happens when a joker pulls a gun on police officers. The cops had no way of knowing what danger they were confronted with. Sad but the only person at fault was the idiot who pulled a gun on the policemen.
Back in 1980 a relative of mine who was on the Chicago PD(I was with another agency there at the time) engaged in a shootout with two men who had a little girl hostage in a car and had killed 4 people,and wounded 3 others just previously-my relative was hit in the groin and returned fire,wounding one perp in the hand-backup units chased the second perp into an alley and he was out of sight until he popped up out of a trash drum blazing away-they had to put 27 rounds into him to end it.Fortunately no other officers were hit-my relative was left partially paralyzed and retired from the force.You just never know.
There’s another camera angle of the incident which explains the matter.Essentially the cops got shafted by lady luck.
The shooter gets into his car before the police,unaware of his presence, walk past him to serve their warrant.The second suspect is take into custody and the shooter then picks that moment to ambush the officers,thus triggering the shootout.Being that BMW has tinted windows with a black interior, there’s no way the officers could know there was someone inside until it was too late.
If that scumbag had any brains he’d have laid low in the car and waited until the five oh left the premesis.Instead his brains were spread onto the sidewalk due to the gunfight he started, and justifiably so.
Well, playing scumbag’s advocate for a moment here, the proper move, if a shootout with the cops was absolutely, completely necessary for whatever reason, was to exit out the other side of the car and use the engine block as cover.
If police had the house under surveillance how could they have possibly missed a second potential suspect. Basic assault tactics. /discussion
Who said the home was being watched?
Had the home been under police surveillance, the very presence of the firearm would have triggered a SWAT call. Forget undercover Nissan sedans, there would have been a Boston-style raid with tactic-cooled storm troopers kicking in the door with loaded ARs.
The fact that the cops walked right by the BMW tells me this was just an ugly coincidence. The bad guy got lucky, and then threw it away by drawing down on the police. If the dimwit had any brains, he would have just sat tight until the cops completed their business and left. The police would have driven away totally unaware of his presence. Instead of laughing off a close call in a safe house, he’s in the Miami-Dade county morgue on account of his itchy trigger finger.
So they just happened to roll up in undercovers when homeboy and his buddy were bebopping out of the house? My guess is the guy keeping watch got itchy to join in and blew it for everyone.
Actually, if you watch closely, the first car on scene (white import) backs out of a driveway from across the street. How did that officer miss the guy coming out and getting into the BMW? Sight lines look clear from there.
Nice headshot
Between the point where the officer shoots the gunman and the gunman shoots him, you can see that he lowered his pistol. His thought was probably “Ok, I got him good.” Unfortunately, he was still in grave danger.
Good job done by the cops. Glad none of them were hurt. That DB certainly had the jump on them.
One of the cops was shot three times in the guts.
longer version here:
http://www.miamiherald.com/video/index.html?media_id=162824841
Yes the longer video at the Miami Herald is more telling. Although it’s tough to do an after action report via armchair it seems like the officers didn’t wait until all assets were on site.
The first officers weren’t situationally aware.
I’m wondering if the officer in the white car across the street that backed in could have better surveiled the suspect who got into the car. Perhaps utilizing his passenger side mirror. I’m thinking he was to fixated on getting the ‘go’ command to start the assault.
Could they have gotten some officers in the house across the street for a better observation post?
The street didn’t appear to be shut down to civilians as it appears at least one civilian vehicle drives through the scene before it is totally under control.
I wondered at first why they didn’t immediately disarm the perp once he was down, but they appear to have lost control of the suspect they had originally collared and were waiting for him to surrender.
I’m thinking the perp who initiated the shootout was also using his own product, perhaps some Cocaine, otherwise he had quite a pair to think he could take out all the LEO’s. Maybe he watched ‘Scarface’ to much.
Ken’s link is good. Once the shooting starts, it looks like one of the cops (the first one down the driveway) shoots behind him, underhand style, without looking, while getting the f*ck out of dodge. You can see dust fly on the lawn from the impacts of his rounds. He’s lucky he didn’t hit one of his partners.
I don’t have any sympathy for the dead bad guy. He made his choices.
I saw the wounded cop also shooting behind himself, with his head (and eyes) totally turned away. My thought was he was lucky to not hit anyone across the street or in a neighboring building. It seemed to me that both the good guys and the bad guys here made some really bad choices. Sorry that the officer got shot, and I am a little sad to see that they let the bad guy lay there and bleed out. The “good guys” are supposed to be better than that in my opinion.
Here’s a lesson for you. Don’t start a gunfight with cops – they’re wearing bullet proof vests and you’re not.
Why wouldn’t I be wearing one to?
Well sure, if you’re wearing a vest too, go ahead, knock yourself out.
And there are more of them than thera are of me.
The one thing I saw was police officer three was fixated on the action. Two officers were already handling the guy, the third officer should have been scanning for other threats. This is all about watching your lane and staying aware of the surroundings, situations change. Other than that, the police officers seemed to handle it well. I guess the guy by the tree had a death wish.
Watching the two videos I got the impression that the perp new the cops were coming and that they would not look into the car . Watch the guy when he first appears on the porch until he gets into the car. He knows something is going down. why he chose to attempt the ambush with such a small weapon is beyond me.
Misguided criticism, the officer you are referring to was hit. The actual problem was that all three converged on a single individual, leaving no one in an “overwatch” position, the 3rd officer initially appears to stay back but is then sucked into the action.
Pistol cartridge= magazine dumping into his center mass! Nice head shot though!!
Couple things I’d point out:
First….the video again proves the myth of a “one shot stop.” Unless you are lucky and get a killing shot to the cranium or spinal column in the neck, the bad guys just do not drop over dead with one, two or a few shots.
Second…I did not notice a head shot.
Looks like the perp took several center mass hits and bled out.
The full length video shows a puff of something around the guy’s head followed by him falling immediately to the ground and his gun flipping out of his hand into the air.
Both cops and crims lose tactical surprise. The cops prove that all plans immediately fall apart as they focus on the front door and discover it doesn’t contain the threat. And is there a guy guarding the backdoor? Why not knock the door in plainclothes and try to sell them a magazine before rushing the place? Or act like a crim and follow them home and catch him unlocking his door, keys in hand and very vulnerable? Alternately, the crim should have exited passenger side and used the engine block as cover. Instead he tries to control the situation by holding three cops at gunpoint, as if the cops will politely back down. To “win” the fight, he should have exploited his surprise. Obviously the crim had never shot an El Presidente, especially not one with an added designated hostage target. This video is evidence that the kind of guys that kick doors for the cops are possibly not very careful or thoughtful, and that the crims don’t practice shooting. My two cents: Gunfight for what? Not alot of gunfights over whiskey anymore, hint, hint…
What’s with the generic white Altima and plain clothes? Any jackass can paint “POLICE” on a vest and pretend to be a cop. Why the hell should anyone submit to a pack of dudes who look more like police impersonators than real police?
You go around trying to arrest people looking like that you’re gonna get shot at. I’m not saying that’s what happened here; it’s clear from the video that the dude in the car is a crook, but how can official police go around looking like that?
Wear the fucking uniform. Drive a real police cruiser with the stickers on it. Don’t set yourself up for more trouble by looking like a fake cop.
Absolutely.
If you’re a cop be a cop.
+1
That was a death wish if I’ve ever seen one. Either that or just plain, unadulterated stupidity.
It’s easy to second guess what the good guys did. They got the job done albeit the wounded officer. The incident can serve as an example of what to do/not to do in the future.
I just hope that the POS lying in his blood and brains was thinking if it was all worth it.
He was thinking about starting a gun control organization. He heard that there’s lots of money in it.
Their (police) tactics sucked. As we so often say, “Get off the X“! The suspect shot the officer closest to the home because he just stood still trying to shoot the suspect. If that officer had been moving toward the house there is a very good chance the suspect would have missed him entirely.
Get out to the woods and practice moving and shooting. Use old t-shirts on sticks for targets because you will see the t-shirt move if you hit it.
The Officers completely missed the bad guy getting in his car.
The 2nd bad guy created a distraction and got everyone’s attention
First bad guy ambushed the Officers.
Whole episode was a matter of 12 seconds.
wonder why LEOs dont care for tinted windows?
That’s exactly why I don’t care for tinted windows. I stop a car if I can’t see what is going on inside.
Shoot turd, rince, repeat.
I hope the cops are doing ok. One down though on the brady side, pardon me while I shed a tear, Randy
Pffft. How could so many cops miss the guy getting into the effing car?
That was the worst mistake I saw there…and considering it looked like they were waiting or just around the corner there. BUT…the car does have tinted windows, and that shit is hard to see through…especially if there is no movement in the car. Human eyes detect movement before anything else…
I don’t blame the cops for shooting the guy after all they are doing their job arresting the marijuana grower and after all he popped out of a car gun in hand right in front of them. If was forced to be a cop ( I would never do it voluntarily) and forced to arrest the marijuana grower ( I would not do it voluntarily either) I would likely do the same thing. Better shoot him before he shoots me.
That said I disagree with this source:
http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/local/21008153893524/officer-continues-to-recover-following-shooting/#ixzz2T0tfpkvF
stating:
“The question remains why Delgado came out firing at police”
Watching the video several times it appears the 56 year old suspect did not fire on anyone until the cops emptied an entire magazine in him and then he decided to fire back. I don’t really condone lies. Not sure who stated “he came out firing.”
Source further states:
The Delgado family said, the deceased had no criminal history, and Miami-Dade County police records confirmed that. “The people that were living here were good people, decent people, and there was no reason for this,” said a woman who would not show her face on camera.
Loved ones of Delgado Sr. said he did not deserve to die the way he did. “My father was murdered by police last night,” said a choked up Geraldo Delgado Jr., the deceased suspect’s son. “What happened was a strange man was looking around, and my father came out to protect his property, and the strange man turned out to be a police officer that murdered him on the spot.”
The comments from the son and neighbor appear a bit skewed relating to the facts at hand (man steps out of car next to police gun in hand). Not sure what he was thinking stepping out gun in hand – if they were cartel or cops… he would have gotten shot regardless.
That said a man died. I’m not going to have a celebration with comments like “POS” and “good headshot.” If someone were to break into my house and threatened the lives of my family I would certainly shoot him with aim to end his life. That said I wouldn’t have a celebration about it afterward. People here seem pretty “desensitized” to watching a 56 year old guy crawl around bleeding and finally dying. The whole video was tragic – for criminal and cop alike.
Uhhh, the guy definitely came out of his car, gun in hand, pointing it at police officers. They had every right to shoot him. If that guy didn’t want to die, maybe he should have came out of the car without the gun and his hands in the air. It’s really that simple. Cop didn’t fire till he saw the gun. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know pointing a gun at a group of police officers will get you shot. Those guys have a job to do and a family to go home to and provide for. Maybe the bad guy did too, but he was going about it all wrong. The only person responsible for his death is himself. That’s not murder, that’s self defense.
Yep. You pretty much said everything I did.
I don’t clump the world into bad guys and good guys though. There is a full color gradient between the two.
Draw and point a gun – game is on.
What cops? All I saw were a bunch of casual tough guys in shitty tac gear driving a white sedan.
The more I look at this video the more it seems like bullshit.
Odd.
My take is that he should have put down the weapon before exiting the car.
The police appear to have fired first, as an armed man faced them and yelling “Freeze!” or “Drop it!” are passè.
I don’t think he was challenging the cops; he didn’t point the weapon at them ’til after they’d shot him.
The cops might (and thirty years go would) have exercised better restraint, and the dead guy certainly should have exhibited better judgement.
A very bad situation, all the way ’round. This didn’t have to happen.
What happened to seconds 16-22 from the second camera angle?
Before an attack/raid like this, you do a recon, and maintain that recon until the moment you go in. Always have eyes on the enemy position.
Had I been the bad guy in the BMW I think I would have reversed out of there and made a run for it. Stepping from the car gun in hand into a yard full of cops would not have been my first choice.
But then I’m not a bad guy and it’s hard for me to get into their mindset. As for him not deserving to die that way, he made a choice. A very bad choice. Sometimes stupid hurts to the point of death.
It was a Darwinian Moment and a perfect example of such
The so-called “bad guy” was growing pot. The cops have nothing better to do than raid someone growing some pot plants?
This shootout doesn’t happen if the cops do their job properly.
There is so much wrong all the way around with this video, I don’t know where to begin.
Then don’t…:) Thanks for stopping by…
Look, bonehead, I’ve been around TTAG for quite a while and have a few things published on this site.
If you’re not troubled by the militarization of the cops and aren’t worried that this is the kind of screwed up raid that ends up with innocent people killed, then you’re beyond hope.
On top of that, you’re not even willing to question the premise of the raid: growing pot plants. If cops have the time and resources to go after someone who, from first impression, isn’t doing anything incredibly wrong, then perhaps the cops have either too much time on their hands, resources are being misallocated, or, just perhaps, there are way too many cops.
Cops have the time to go after pot growers, but somehow miss that three dirt bags are holding women hostage for over a decade in Cleveland.
You tell me which is the more serious crime and which one the cops should really be looking into.
But hey, if you don’t mind that cops are writing tickets for lemonade stands, then I guess you don’t mind living in a police state.
+1
That’s what happens when a joker pulls a gun on police officers. The cops had no way of knowing what danger they were confronted with. Sad but the only person at fault was the idiot who pulled a gun on the policemen.
Cops? Where? I see no uniforms in that video.
Back in 1980 a relative of mine who was on the Chicago PD(I was with another agency there at the time) engaged in a shootout with two men who had a little girl hostage in a car and had killed 4 people,and wounded 3 others just previously-my relative was hit in the groin and returned fire,wounding one perp in the hand-backup units chased the second perp into an alley and he was out of sight until he popped up out of a trash drum blazing away-they had to put 27 rounds into him to end it.Fortunately no other officers were hit-my relative was left partially paralyzed and retired from the force.You just never know.