Monday morning quarterbacking a defensive gun use is a fool’s game. As long as the good guy wins and the bad guy or guys lose, result! Even so, we can learn from these videos. What to do. What not to do. Best practices. What’s your take on this contretemps? What did the gun owner do right and what did she do wrong? I’ll just say this: . . .
when the cops arrive and you have a gun in your hand DON’T MOVE A MUSCLE. When instructed, S L O W L Y put the weapon down as instructed. It may take every bit of mental strength you have to stifle your adrenalin-fueled body’s natural desire to do things quickly, but don’t. Just don’t.
Your take?
[h/t DC Studios]
Around the 19 second mark you can hear her chamber a round. Carrying on an empty chamber is foolish. Also if you look closely it appears the gun wielding chick had the gun in her hand while brawling with the two idiots, probably because she didn’t have a round chambered to fire so the gun became an improvised club. Without knowing what happened before the camera started to roll its hard to say, considering the cops let her have her gun back they knew who to arrest.
The only other obvious thing is I would not have “advanced” on the bad guys as she seems to have done though it could be argued this was to clear her line of fire if she had to shoot.
Oh and I am shocked to finally see a video without someone screaming “WORLD STAR” at the top of their lungs
I agree completely. I think the guy was a real dumb ass to keep walking towards a woman that he just roughed up especially after he saw that she had a weapon.
Well the ass whipping ceased as soon as she drew the gun, so that part she got right.
First rule of surviving a fight, don’t get in one. By the time this video starts it was underway so I don’t know if she was attacked and therefore unable to avoid the fight.
I don’t think she should have closed the distance on him. She kind of stalked him. This is a DGU, not an arrest so she should have taken a defensive position and have someone call the po-po.
The title claims this was brandishing. I thought brandishing was against the law? This looked like a legal use of a firearm.
I don’t know if I would have shot him when someone yelled “he got a knife”, because I was watching this as if I was the one pointing the gun and I did not feel threat at that point. But right after he jumped and yelled “suck my dick” and moved toward the gun, I blew peanut butter stuffed pretzel bites all over my laptop when I screamed “SHOOT HIM!” That was a clear disregard for life on the part of the aggressor and makes him a real danger.
The best part is having Daft Punk cranking out on the audio system during the ordeal.
One more thing. You don’t slowly put your gun on the ground when the cops order you to. You let go of it and let it fall. it’s not a Ming Dynasty ceramic heirloom. It is a tool. Just drop it.
“I don’t think she should have closed the distance on him. She kind of stalked him. This is a DGU, not an arrest so she should have taken a defensive position and have someone call the po-po.”
————
I think she did the absolute right thing, she kept the person who was assaulting her within sight. What if when he went around the corner he pulls out a handgun that he had concealed somewhere?
It would be another thing if he was completely disengaging by running out of the building, hell no you shouldn’t chase them, but if they refuse to vacate your area you should keep visual contact on them so that they can’t attempt a counter-attack.
Distance is your friend unless you need to close to engage. It has been said, credibly, that she was a cop or at least a security guard. In that case she behaved as such.
It is video proof that an assailant who has just been in an altercation might be too amped up to back down from an armed defender (>coughcough<)
Carrying with an empty chamber is not foolish. That’s the way I was trained. Carrying with a loaded chamber is asking for trouble.
Get retrained.
What he said.
Safe pistol handling trumps response delaying empty chamber.
My wife carries chambered, safety on.
My EDC has no safety. But it is chambered.
I have seen may say that if your pistol cannot be carried chambered safely, it is not a Carry pistol. It is a range pistol.
Your training is a horrible failure. Besides, ‘training’ is for pets. I’m a human being. I don’t train. I think. I make decisions. Training is for dumb animals. And clearly, it was very, very dumb in this instance.
How can you know your hand will be free to rack the slide? If you’re fighting off a knife with one hand, you might not have that hand anymore. Your gun is useless since it has no round chambered. Or your attacker may simply have that hand restrained…
A gun with no round in the chamber is as worthless as no gun at all. Your ‘training’ was and is garbage. The person who trained you was/is a damn fool.
+1 Get retrained. This is a perfect example of why you carry chambered. She had the gun drawn, but was too busy defending herself to chamber.
Well, what if you only have one hand, and you have a feed jam, or a misfire, can YOU operate it and clear it with one hand? Y / N? If your answer is N, then call me impressed with your skills or training. I’m guessing you still have two functioning hands? I can do everything I just asked you. I don’t have a choice. Racking the slide one handed is easy, if you ever train yourself to do it. So please, tell us all again how it’s humanly impossible to rack a slide, and chamber a round, one handed.
Kindly explain how you perform these operations with one-hand; or, refer us to videos, photos that illustrate the technique.
Sorry Stan. That is way outdated. Better get some more recent training. Carrying a modern semi-auto on an empty chamber is “asking for trouble”. What if you are trying to hold off an attacker with one hand and you’re drawing your gun with the other? Oops! I have to let go of the attacker to rack a round! Darn, I’m screwed!
Looks like she tried without success to rack the slide using a couple skulls.
“Carrying on an empty chamber is foolish” I have to disagree. Unless a there is a threat immanent, there is no need to carry with a round chambered.
What is the time measurement between no threat and imminent threat?
There really should be a law that bad guys call ahead to warn you so you can chamber that round.
What she did right: She didn’t shoot anybody.
I’ll go with that. And other than that, I’m pretty non-plussed by the whole thing. Looks like the busboy is trying to restrain the gun gal at first, like maybe she was the initial aggressor? The two attackers also seem awful casual about the fact that she has a gun in her hand–I mean, they keep punching at her, but it’s not like they are trying to take it away from her. It’s almost like they don’t care about it at all. Then they just stop and turn to go. The whole thing is just not computing with me.
And her life is a lot less complicated because of it.
Oh also; she pointed out witnesses/evidence to the cops (the cell phone video) another thing she did right. Honestly though around the 50 second mark when he started to come at her with a knife I would have shot.
+1
Aggressive man with knife, absolutely. A person with a knife can cover a lot of ground in the time it takes a defender to stop the threat. Sure, she may get off one or two rounds, but he may have plenty of time to cause fatal injuries with the knife before his body shuts down.
Why would an empty chamber be a bad idea in her case? She knew it wasnt chambered. There have been numerous accidental discharge stories on this site and Glocks dont have safeties.
If she pulled her gun without the intention of using it (it appears her gun is out at the VERY beginning of the video during the fight) shes an idiot. I would guess she is not an idiot and pulled the gun out to use it but had no ability to chamber a round. If I was in a 2 on 1 situation like the beginning of the video my gun would have come out and I would have fired.
If you started a fight, and shot when the natural fruits of street fisticuffs commenced you would be criminally liable. Obviously, I don’t know this since there wasn’t more video.
How can anyone side with anyone without seeing more evidence? It looks like a fist fight to me; the gun wielder may have started it or vice versa. If she started it, than she is criminally liable. Also, the man doesn’t have a knife. He has napkln.
Let’s just assume she’s the victim since it was a two on one and she looks like an employee? It’s good for gaming purposes 😀
She doesn’t appear to be an employee. The workers are all in red costumes and speak poor English.
Ah gotchya. Wasn’t positive.
Who is siding with anybody?
Hell I couldn’t understand a word being said, so either they weren’t speaking English or my old gun shot ears are finally dead. I will say I thought her gun handling style was fine, I Saw her being attacked by a man, punched and jerked around, IMHO she could have shot him right then, his little girl jumping up and down was enough to pimp slap him over, Why the two women were fighting I have no idea. I was very surprised the cops were so casual about the gun, usually they rush in throw the gun owner down and make a federal case out of it.
That she was allowed to pick it up like that was a shocker! so i guess the LEO’s knew more then we do. I think she kept her head pretty well thru it all and moving forward to get past bystanders showed good training.
Oriental restaurant, owner/manager/whatever shouting in her native tongue. Our gun gal looks like a customer to me.
Why would you advocate shooting someone who isn’t a threat to you? You don’t know who started the fight either. If she started it, its at least assault for pointing the gun.
I am guessing the LEOs had pretty good knowledge of the parties involved.
More than likely, a witness called 911 before the video started. That would explain how the police knew who the aggressor(s) were when they arrived.
It might also be constructive to think of what you’d do if you were a bystander in this situation. Clearly, video evidence helps, but would you be willing to be around a fight when the rounds fly? Either do something (video the incident, help break up the fight, etc) or get the hell out of there.
It’s hard to say what the victim should have done because of the intro already cutting into the fight. That being said, don’t access your weapon until you can create space or get them in a arm tie or body lock of some sort. She’s lucky they didn’t take it from her ESPECIALLY if she didn’t have one in the chamber already to defend herself with.
What the heck was that screeching for the last minute or so.
Probably the guy’s girl. Some women just lose their shit when they see their boyfriend getting arrested.
I think they are friends. His mannerisms scream gay to me.
That was my conclusion too. If I had to guess, the three individuals involved are acquaintances. Prior to the start of the video, there were heated words exchanged, which lead to the physical altercation between the three. The guy is gay, so (right or wrong) he maybe doesn’t have the same qualms about engaging in a physical altercation with women.
Because the all know each other, it probably wasn’t a surprise to the male that the woman was carrying. Their personal relationship would also explain why he was so casual about the gun in her hand–this probably isn’t the first time they’ve fought, and he knows (or thinks he knows) that she wouldn’t actually shoot him.
They all end up creating a huge scene and a legitimate danger to strangers in a public space. But by this time they’re all back to being besties and watching Sex in the City reruns together over a few strawberry daiquiris.
I know, what a banshee. Made the last minute of the video unbearable.
Not nearly enough info to make an informed opinion of this incident.
From Teddy Roosevelt, my parens and change of gender added:
“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong woman stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the woman who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends herself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if she fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that her place shall never be with those cold and timid souls (on gun blogs) who neither know victory nor defeat.”
This is just Click (de)BAIT isn’t it?
Debate-bate?
I could be wrong on this one, but as I’ve gamed things out in my head and my practice, if I’m holding on someone who has threatened me, and I tell them to not take one more step toward me, and they do, then I’m thinking they must know something I don’t, so I’m shooting.
I was frankly surprised she didn’t shoot when he came back yelling toward her several times. It worked out for her, but someone that angry and adrenalined up can move FAST and simply overpower you in about a half second, even with empty hands. If I have to shoot to keep someone from getting that close, I’ll do it. Or rather, that’s the way I game play it in my mind, though having never been in that situation, I may hesitate, but that hesitation in my mind is so potentially devastating that I actually practice avoiding it.
Not sure if that’s right or wrong, but something I am firm on and would have to live with.
Those defenses only work for cops because they are held to low standards in general. Shooting an unarmed person who is moving towards you is an easy way to charged with some degree of felonious assault or homicide. Unless you are in your home and the person you shot broke in, you do not have a valid legal reason to shoot an unarmed person.
George Zimmerman.
She was totally justified in shooting the dude and should have on the spot.
Even if she started the fight with the girl, the guy who joined in became the aggressor and that made it justifiable self defense.
Other than that I believe she did a bang up job, other than forgetting to rack her slide on someones teeth.
It is NOT justified to shoot someone after starting a street fight. Trust me, there are dozens of the cases every year where the shooters gets charged with manslaughter or felonious assault. If she was a cop though, she would walk. WALK AWAY FROM THE FIGHT. You never know what another person is capable of.
Mind you, I don’t have any evidence to say she started it. I would not think it is justified just watching the tape because there is no fear of bodily harm or death. The restaurant employee was already between them when the fight started.
Nor is one justified in using lethal force even if you are the innocent party in a fight. My problem with this video is that I couldn’t see any act by any party – in the first 30 seconds) that would establish a pretext of an apprehension of fear for life or grave bodily injury. No indication of predatory behavior; looks like “social violence”, the attempt by one or both parties to obtain a dominant social position over the other.
I could be missing something, but I don’t see anyone else commenting about a lethal weapon (other than the girl’s gun) until the 50 second point by which time the girl clearly had the gun in the knife-fight.
Her legal posture strikes me as extremely vulnerable if I’m not missing something in the first seconds of the video.
“Nor is one justified in using lethal force even if you are the innocent party in a fight.”
What?
Bullshit.
For arguments sake, lets just say the gun lady started the fight with the other woman. She is the aggressor towards the other woman only, not her entire party.
So in this case since she never laid a hand on the guy before he started striking her, he is the aggressor and she is the defender. It would be up to a jury to decide if a larger and more physically capable assailant using his fists constitutes a deadly threat. My guess is they would say yes since at that point it became a 2 on 1 confrontation.
Also even if I start a fight and chose to retreat I can reclaim my right to self defense depending on the circumstances.
If someone attacked my mother, would it be just for them to shoot me if I jumped in to defend her?
E: In most states, no. The legal shorthand is “in her shoes” meaning your mother’s rights to defend herself can transfer to you in the moment, especially since she may not be capable of defending herself. The problem would be if, even unbeknownst to you, your mother actually started the fight. Then they may or may not be justified in shooting you, but you are not justified in shooting them.
Gun Girl is putting on a badge at 3:25. Im guessing the rules changed at that point. though I’ll also commend her on her trigger discipline. Is there a story to go along with the video?
If she’s a LEO then why was she telling the guy to move out instead of telling him to get on the floor and then ventilating him when he didn’t comply? Still doesn’t make sense.
She only says step back and she not letting them leave. When the cops arrives she says “I’m on the job .” then “get my purse.” This is one sharp lady. She hands the bag to the cop to look for her ID. The crazy woman who shouted he’s got a knife in the background might have got this mope shot.
There is a lot to learn here.
Also in a two on one situation its better to keep them both covered than try to complete the arrest until after back up arrives
You seem to be hearing it a lot better than I am, so i’ll defer to you on that. It does make the whole situation make more sense. I was pretty sure, tho, when the guy said “I’m getting my [clothes? things?] and leaving, she said “Do that”. Also, still not sure why she wouldn’t order him to the ground rather than just tell him to step away if she was LEO.
LEO’s come in all different flavors. A Parole Officer is a LEO. A Fish and Game Warden is a LEO. I’ve seen lots of LEOs who aren’t street cops and haven’t had refresher traning or when to the academy a long time ago. Don’t assume every LEO is a tatical genious when it comes to policing. There’s a big difference.
She showed restraint and allowed the aggressor ample opportunity to leave at any time without endangering anyone else.I commend her for her focus in a very stressful situation, especially with the crazy Asian woman screaming incessantly in the background. I yelled at the video several times for her to STFU. The idiots who chose to keep clearing off the tables in a dangerous situation are just stupid, you have to add in the ignorant-stupid factor in any stressful situation. All in all, she handled the situation very well IMHO.
A) If you have a gun on you and something is happening that things are escalating, just leave. I’m assuming that she wasn’t blindly attacked, I could be wrong but I go to Cafes all the time and have yet seen a brawl. The altercation had to be going on for a good while otherwise the police wouldn’t have shown up so quickly.
Sure she could have “neutralized the threat,” or both of the people she ended up fighting could have been carrying and the would have had an even worse day for her. Assuming your going to pull a gun and everybody is going to run may happen and you may get someone who’s not that scared (the unarmed man clearly wasn’t in fear for his life). It’s not worth your life or taking someone else’s to prove a point. It’s not even worth all the other stuff that could possibly happen:
-being questioned by the police
-getting your firearm taken
-being questioned at the police station
-facing assault charges
-getting a lawyer
-getting sued by the guy with the wound
-getting banned from your favorite cafe
Bottom line, if you can avoid confrontations please do so.
You are 100% correct. Fighting always takes two. I have had comparable things happen to me where guys want to fight me and I ALWAYS WALK AWAY. Only monkeys street fight. I have seen a bunch of street fights at Walmarts, malls, bars and it always is a conflict between two people who essentially agree to engage in physical contact.
It is not self defense to shoot someone in the course of a street fight.
Kind of depends on the circumstances of the “street fight” ( Zimmerman-Martin, e.g.)
The cases where you need to fight are pretty small. You almost always have the ability to walk away!!! When you don’t that’s when you need a gun.
The point I am making is that you need to approach situations that are escalating with the question. “is this worth MY life?” Once you go down that path of confronting you are inviting entropy into your world. You might not care if you kill the guy you fought, but she could have easily killed someone beyond him (even outside walking down the street), and you very well may get killed yourself, the person you’re with may get killed. It is entirely possible everybody else in the restaurant may be armed and over react when you draw your weapon. And then there is what happens after the incident. Would firing this weapon in that situation be worth even 6 months behind bars? 6 years? 60years? All are possible.
Haven’t had to put this into practice yet but I feel that when I conceal carry my gun, it doesn’t keep people from fighting me as much as it keeps me from fighting them.
At 2:20 when she puts down her gun I think she says “im on the job”
Would explain why she wasn’t cuffed
I’m going to WAG on this and say the cop walked in on a domestic during lunch and things hit the fan
Sounds like a meeting of the hysterical society.
She’s a cop. She does have a badge and she does say more than once that she is on the job.
Now that makes a lot more sense now. My comment earlier stated that she was closing distance on him as if it was an arrest and I don’t see that as a defensive reaction. But the way she kept yelling commands is consistent with a trained LEO.
I also believe that cops draw their weapons more readily than non LEO. Not that this is bad. I think LEOs go into situations and have to have the gun in a more ready position until the situation is secure, whereas non LEOs usually only draw when they need to fire to stop a threat.
Bizarre… If you’re in the right to draw, you’re in the right to fire. Hesitation worked this time, but is not a good policy.
Heard the slide rack…
Multiple assailants with the physical strength to subdue and cause grave bodily harm and/or death = dead people. Could have easily kept one hand un-useable and that slide would not have racked…
She gambled by not shooting. This time she won the bet… Not everyone does.
And, frankly, the world would be better off if those so-called “people” were dead…
Yes, shooting would make life complicated. A complicated life is better than no life at all…
The notion that she’s a cop makes the hesitation sensible… Lots of bad things happen to a cop when it shoots a black person… Maybe worth the hesitation. A white girl shooting a black guy, aw hell, doesn’t she know they’re entitled to her body any time they want? Just ask the Anti Gunners… Give the bad guy whatever he wants… Rape is just another entitlement.
Cops shoot unarmed black people all the time without consequence. Do you want a list? In my life, I have only seen their be an uproar once (Mike Brown ).
…. ~and IN steps the criminal-apologist!!~
Welcome!
Who apologized for who? Do you want me to find articles where unarmed black people are killed in raids? There are bunch. I am serious. No one protests at all
You obviously don’t know what the word “apologist” means. And Mike Brown was criminal trash.
@Dustin: Well, I don’t think he wanted to rape her. Generally, rapists don’t bring their girlfriends and then start raping in the middle of a shop. This was just assault.
Actually, you can wrack the slide one-handed, and some people prefer keeping the barrel empty vs. keeping the safety on — but it may be difficult to rack the slide one-handed, or even think of needing to rack the slide, if you’re under a barrage of punches and in a world of hurt.
You may want to look at these videos, just in case.
Here it’s done quickly, you can’t really tell what’s happened:
http://youtu.be/LMsAvWOEj-k
and here in slow, with explanation:
http://youtu.be/g5tpZ7OgJB0
…. although, it’s not really necessarry to have a belt to do so if you use enough force when pressing it against your side. This is covered in Magpul’s Art of the Dynamic Handgun, which I highly recommend.
I also recommend training to shoot with only one hand, both sides. Hand-to-Hand martial artists train in striking on both sides in case they become unable to use one side, not just so they have more options…. so why shouldn’t gun owners do the same? Gun-fighting is also a Martial Art; Martial: 1. Of, relating to, or suggestive of war.2. Relating to or connected with the armed forces or the profession of arms…. Martial Art = Art of War/Art of Arms.
What I don’t understand is why any LEO would carry condition 3?
Near the end of the video she’s given what I think is a badge and tells the responding officers that she’s on the job…
I didn’t notice this at all through all the screeching… only that she picked up her weapon again.
The woman on the left clearly sucker punches the gun gal squarely on the left side of her head initiating the fight.
Had it been me, I would have had both of them on their asses before they could blink. I don’t think I would have drawn my side arm. But I’m a male.
I think she handled herself very well considering all of the ruckus.
I feel bad for thinking that the guy and his screeching girl friend both needed an electrical sedative if you know what I mean. Had I been carrying a Taser they would have both been seeing stars.
I would love to read the incident report.
okay…someone clear this up for me. That screeching at the end..is that the thug dude, thug girl or some other rando?
It’s thug girl.
I think it was: Chicken!
Don’t pistol whip someone, you might end up accidentally/negligently shooting them. Don’t point a gun at someone unless you are actually going shoot because that can exacerbate the situation (that applies to EVERYONE).
“Don’t point a gun at someone unless you are actually going shoot because that can exacerbate the situation (that applies to EVERYONE).”
Yes, that may have been what happened when she hit her in the face, or she may have had the gun out sooner. Although, in some states (Florida now included) it is legal to present a “threat of deadly force” (may not be exact legal wording) in response to a threat of great or deadly harm, which she may have considered a better option than waiting until she actually needed to fire it.
Though, like you mentioned, it may be best to not draw unless you intend to fire it (as in samurai philosophy: once the sword is drawn, it cannot be returned to it’s sheath without drawing blood), she was able to avoid shooting anyone or damaging the shop. Thereby she probably avoided additional legal problems such as being sued for injury/death and/or damage to the shop, less harassment from the media, and less of a chance that her firearm will be confiscated for a long time as the result of a shooting/discharge (in my opinion).
If she had the raised combat tritium super duper belt slide schucking rear sight, since there was nothing in the pipe, they’d both be dirt napping. Maybe she was trained by IDF, they don’t carry one in the pipe either.
Note – old school nat’l match bomar style rear sights can do belt schucking too.
WTF was that yelling in the background?! Was that a chimpanzee?! Some kind of chicken?!
O_O LADY!! — STFU and CALM. DOOOOOWN. the police are there now and are handling the issue!
….shaking my head. Seriously.
“when the cops arrive and you have a gun in your hand DON’T MOVE A MUSCLE. When instructed, S L O W L Y put the weapon down as instructed. It may take every bit of mental strength you have to stifle your adrenalin-fueled body’s natural desire to do things quickly, but don’t. Just don’t.
Your take?” – Robert Farago
—————————————————–
My take is, you may want to stop pointing your gun before the police start shooting you.
She should have not touched the gun again after she put it down… unless the cop told her it was OK to holster it (which seems like something unlikely for a cop to do).
When she pulled her gun and told the aggressor to stay away, he should have taken the threat seriously, instead of repeatedly drawing nearer and retreating, then jumping up and down like a monkey. It seemed like he was testing her.
It didn’t look like she was really in any serious danger yet, it may have been a bit premature for her to draw a gun in my opinion, but we’ll see what the court and/or police has to say about it (hopefully).
Actually, from watching the video its a bit difficult to tell just how much she was injured and when she drew the gun. This girl in black blocks the initial view, making it hard to see if she’s already holding the weapon before the altercation started, then it looks like the armed lady slams the girl-in-black in the mouth with her pistol before the guy starts beating on her head.
That coal burner would not shut the fuck up at the end.
Call me churlish, but this video proves nothing about the skills of any of the parties. The scene, actions, and language are too chaotic.
It is as if you were to take the math exams of three students, find they’d all missed 90% of the questions, and then asked me “what few things did they did wrong.”
The laws make clear that guns are not meant to be pulled to win fistfights in which the drawing party had willingly joined, and from which they exerted no effort to withdraw/flee. If lethal force is brought forth then either a stop is justified (do all the analysis), or the one drawing the gun should be struggling to withdraw from the situation.
Don’t even get me started on how the woman waving the gun as her antagonist is clearly trying to leave….stands with the gun like a popular girl in a high school hallway. Complete rubbish.
I say this will all the usual caveats . . . Basically, she got it mostly right. A very wise man once told me that if you get 70% right under pressure, you’re doing pretty damn good. But here are some things to think about: Again, consider the caveats. Once you have your handgun out like she did, if at all possible, stop the shouting match put some distance between yourself and the guy and then go very, very silent. Your job at that point isn’t to say much at all except to warn the guy that you’re armed and he’s about to get his head blown clean off. Not saying anything more will usually wind down the confrontation quite rapidly.
Just silently standing there, gun drawn, keeping your eyes on the guy isn’t at all what people looking for trouble expect. In fact it can be more than a little unnerving. Once the gun is out all need for engaged conversation ceases and you’re in an entirely different situation. Had the woman done something like that instead of engaged in the endless yammering, the guy would have probably just cooled down and left. And getting a guy like that out of your space ought to be your first priority. Let the cops argue with him and arrest him.
What is it that she did right? Pull a gun on a retreating opponent? Try to hold him at the scene screaming nonsense? Holding the gun wrong and standing wrong? Let’s be honest: from the video you don’t even know if she was in the right at the beginning, let alone at the end. Or else we saw different videos.
The law is extremely clear about taking part in a fight but then failing to attempt to renew your innocent status by withdrawing: you probably will not have a defense of justifiable homicide left. The door wasn’t blocked. They weren’t holding her down. She flipped out. No?
Well, this is the way altercations like this tend to take place. Multiple participants, everybody screaming, etc. They’re always messy. It’s hard to say what went on before, but it looks to me like this woman found herself in the middle of a fight. Who knows how it started, but the hard fact is that, once the gun came out Everything Changed Big Time. Did the gun cause the out-of-control guy to retreat rather than just withdraw to prepare another attack? My point is that, once the gun comes out, going quiet separates an individual from the fray. In a situation like this if you feel the need to pull your gun, it’s best to find a defensible corner, and STFU. Trying to further “control” the situation by shouting orders, using a “command voice” like the cops is just an invitation to escalate a bad situation that might otherwise just resolve itself without anyone getting shot.
I agree with your point.
Some people will always be afraid to carry in condition one. Movies and T.V. shows also reinforce this bad practice. Let’s face it, some people do not get any training before they carry or the training they get is strictly on the range where, what do you do? You load before you shoot. I don’t know of too many civilian firing lines that let you make a cold approach loaded. “On the firing line, with a magazine of X rounds, load and prepare for your first stage of fire.” Something like that is pretty standard for any basic training routine. It’s not hard to see how someone who does little more than the basic, then never goes back for anything more, reinforced by stereotypes would not carry with the chamber loaded.
The other side of the coin is somepeople, no matter what “modern training” is tought these days, will always go old school, so I don’t blame Stan for writeing his comment above. My grandfather – WWII vet, 42 Infantry Division. Veteran of Operation Nordwind and winner of the Bronze Star for valor, never loaded the chamber on the gun at his bedside. Nothing was going to change that. This is a man who finally opened up to us about his experience in 1995 with stories about fining his Garand so much that he MELTED and WARPED the barrel.
When the fight was over she pursued him with the gun. Why? It also appears that the man broke up a fight between two women. Nothing more than hair pulling and ghetto foolishness. Not sure there was a need to pull a gun. It perhaps did not seem that anyone’s life was in danger. Having a few strains of hair removed is not a good enough reason to kill someone. Don’t pull out a weapon and point it at someone unless it will be used to protect human life.
If you can’t handle the responsibility of carrying a weapon, don’t. If you can’t be mature at all times when carrying a loaded weapon, don’t. People like her jeopardize my 2nd Amendment Right.
Carrying with a round in the chamber is a nogo for everyone around the world, including All branches of The United States Military. Poorly “trained” Cops in the U.S. and certain civilians “trained” in this mindset are the only people on the planet lacking enough common sense and concern for firearm saftey to carry a sidearm in public in such a condition. These people prove almost daily how stupid it is with accidental discharges resulting in injury or death. Anyone who has been “trained” or is “training” a person to do so is the one needing the retraining. Safety is the number one concern when handling a firearm. This doesn’t change no matter who you are or how BA you think you are. Cocked and locked is an accident waiting to happen. This is not my opinion, its a fact. The young lady in the video shows herself to have had good training, but lacks experience. She did a good job of stopping the assault and keeping the assailant at bay until law enforcement arrived. No one died and hopfully the male perp was arrested and charged with battery. The armchair quarterbacks can learn a thing or two from this video. Whoever titled the video is an idiot.
Jack Gault, you may have posted in the wrong comments section. This video clearing shows a man hitting a woman in the head multiple times. Now it has been determined that the woman is some type of LEO, and the arriving officers found no fault in her actions. Pursuit is part of protocol after a crime has been committed.
Being an OLD former Marine and an OLD former LEO I can say with my own knowledge from over 50 years carrying a weapon daily that I know of nobody who carries with an empty chamber ( In peace time, in rear areas yes Military personal do carry with a loaded mag and an empty chamber, but never in a combat zone,
I also shoot competition, IDPA, Defensive pistol and three gun plus Cowboy action and I’ve never seen any of the horrors you describe, I don’t know where your vast knowledge comes from but I’d say it’s from the era when some folks carried their double action Smith and Wesson revolver with the hammer on an empty chamber.
If you wish to inform people of the wrong things to do you need to know what you’re talking about, and I don’t care if you are an X Sealgreenbennyforcereconsniper whatever, your advice is wrong, your training was wrong and I’ve never know a LEO that carried with the chamber empty and had I, I would have refused to work with him.
Dead is forever, and taking time to rack the slide in a gun fight is the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard in my life. And remember this, when the Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up the truck bomber drove right past the Marine guards because some state department weeny order that the guards not have ammo…200 + Marines died , When the US Embassy in Iran was over run it was because the Marines assigned to guard the place were ordered to have their weapons locked up in an area where getting to them was impossible, This again by the State Department stupid asses and these are the same people responsible for Benghazi.
Either you have had the worlds worst training or you’re a troll, whichever, you’re suggestions will get somebody killed.
The only place you see people racking the slide going in is on TV and the movies, Hollyweird loves the “wave the big bad gun in the air so the people can see ” THE GUN”.
Get out away from the TV and take some real training.
If she had a snubbie she wouldn’t have had to worry about racking a slide me thinks.