This is not funny. The crusty old guy at the gun counter was offering good advice. No one, absolutely no one, wants to sit in a jail cell and tell Igor and Tank he was shot by a woman with a pink gun.
Sam I Am,
Humor is the first step in seeing the truth….of what is real…..
“Sam,
Humor is the first step in seeing the truth….of what is real…..”
Thanks for the insight, however….
In my world, other people are just movie props, imaginings, cut-out characters.
Which means that right now, I am writing to myself. Emmawright??
well, according to Samuel Johnson, patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels.
But… he’s dead, so maybe its time for a rewrite.
“But… he’s dead, so maybe its time for a rewrite.”
Well, somebody’s gotta do it. This is my candidate.
Absolutely Sam, you are correct in the assumption….
“Humor. It is a difficult concept.” Humor is the last refuge of a scoundrel !!
“Absolutely Sam”
My point, precisely.
I was browsing the “build it yourself AR-15” section of a LGS. I asked the counter guy to show me a particular AR upper, and then inquired about the manufacturer’s reputation for the barrel’s accuracy. He looked at me puzzled. So I asked him did the manufacturer state the approximate MOA to expect. He took on this amazingly condescending attitude and said “I don’t know anything about MOA, but accuracy depends on how good you are at shooting”.
I found out later the store is known to have rotten customer service and lacking expertise in firearms.
The saddest part is that the clown was right on both counts:
1) He didn’t know anything about MOA
and
2) For the vast majority of rifles, accuracy IS a matter of how well you shoot because the vast majority of rifles are more accurate than the vast majority of shooters.
I take that to mean “We don’t sell anything here worthy of a skilled marksman, so don’t ask.”
Although you asked about accuracy, what you wanted was precision. Precision is a function of the mechanical capability of the firearm/cartridge/sighting system, the goal being the smallest conical average spread possible at point of impact.
Accuracy is the shooter’s ability/technique to zero the precision output of a system such that the point of aim matches the point of impact consistently.
Accuracy tests have always fascinated. Seems that so long as a human in involved, one really does not know what the gun is capable of. Despite the mantra that “the gun is capable of better accuracy than the shooter behind it”, we don’t have tests that remove the human from the actual shooting.
Are there tests that are conducted using only mechanical devices that can be evaluated as being able to reproduce, every time, the same pressures on the firearm firing mechanism? In other words, a measurable rig, with a reliable trigger release device that removes human error, and mechanical error as far as possible? That would seem the only way to really know what a gun is capable of regards precision/accuracy.
@ Sam, aren’t you describing a Ransom Rest? I know they’re not always perfect (some slippage with grip inserts that don’t match the grips closely enough), but that seems to be the most consistent and repeatable mechanical device currently available for accuracy testing.
Ransom Rest may be sorta the idea. Does such a device use human or mechanical action to fire the gun?
My mental picture (yes, I put that out there for comment), is a stripped down rifle, no stock, no fore end appliance, no optics. Only fire control and barrel, mounted in some manner that eliminates as much as possible, external conditions regarding the mounting of the hardware in a jig, then some sort of mechanical device to squeeze the trigger. (so that the results can be repeated, completely independent of human operation)
The only way to hit what you’re shooting at is to aim at it!
That’s a real gem of wisdom. I’m gong to tuck that away with MANY if the things my co-workers and customers said when I sold guns.
Thanks John Madden
I’m thinking about replacing my current .357 with one that is more comfortable shooting magnum loads. A likely candidate is a 5.5″ Ruger Redhawk. I agree with the ladies.
A lot easier to conceal than a ball peen hammer and last I checked ACE doesn’t have pink ball peen hammers. Either way, you will probably only get one shot at Bruno with either weapon, so the .357 wins as the most likely to incapacitate.
I did a quick search. Did you know there are quite a few tools available in pink ?
Found my brothers Christmas present while looking at a few. We normally buy each other horrible tee shirts and some sort of gag gift.
This year he’s getting a black tee shirt with glow in the dark skeletons making whoopee all over it and a pink tool set with matching pink tool belt.
True. I shot one at the range that a guy next to me had. Once. I put the gun down, smiled and said, “Good luck with that.”. I went back to shooting my GP100 with 1200fps rounds. His friend shot one cylinder and only shot .22s after.
I worked for a guy who went into a gun shop and bought a 5 shot .38 on the advice of the gun shop clerk who convinced him everything else was just too complicated to use.
My LGS is full of knowledgeable guys, it’s the ARtards coming in who give terrible advice to the other customers. Haven’t seen any guys I can remember behind a counter that have said anything too dumb, but I don’t frequent many different shops.
As I recall Newton’s laws of physics, that equal and opposite force must first exert itself on that air weight revolver before it can impose a force on your hand, and objects at rest resist being put into motion (just as objects in motion resist coming to a halt).
So I’m guessing it feels like a bigger ball peen hammer. Only bloodier.
And with an expanding pointy end versus the hammer’s smooth rounded end.
When you think about it, if you run someone through with a sword, there has to be an equal amount of pressure on your hand as there is on your victim’s torso.
But, last time I ran someone through with a sword I made sure my hand was holding the fatter rounded end and that I was pushing the thinner skinny end into them. I remembered something my physics teacher had said about high heels and elephants. I cannot recall exactly since I was kind of like Beavis and Butthead then, huh, huh, huh…he said high heels.
Do pink ball peen hammers come in 6.5 Creedmoor?
Find a good shop , one in the country that is small , been there for a good many years , with knowledgeable people. Preferably owner operated , you will be happy you did. I use one such shop , the only shop I need. The customer is allways right , if the clerk at your store doesn’t know moa , from aim , I’d say find an old timer in a shop like mine.
Discussion of MOA in gun circles is a pretty dang recent thing. I’d theorize started when the grinding on bolt vs AR for precision shootin became a thing around the cracker barrel.
So he built The Truth About Cars, then sold it. Then The Truth About Guns, and sold that. The Truth About Knives happened, too, but I’m not sure what is going on with it.
Maybe he’s hatching the next TTA site? The Truth About Cigars? Scotch? Laying on the couch?
I have an S & W, M & P 640 revolver in .357 Mag with a 1.875 barrel.
It is painful to shoot. You have to really hold on tight to get any
accurate groups. But if I ever need to shoot a threatening target,
I will rest easy that the target will be neutralized better than with
some other lesser caliber. I hope I never need it, but if I do need
it, it will save my life.
If you do a little research into Dixon Diaz you may find that he was being entirely sacastic with this cartoon in response to the standard women’s magazine/TV template. Just sayin’…
How a posting can morph into this thread is one of the wonders of the internet and non face-to-face communication.
![Pinterest](https://pinterest.com/pin/create/button/?url=https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/well-just-leave-this-right-here-heard-recently-at-the-range/&media=https://cdn0.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/diaz-crop.jpg&description=Sometimes the "conventional wisdom" you get at the local gun store isn't really all that wise.){kind=link}
This is not funny. The crusty old guy at the gun counter was offering good advice. No one, absolutely no one, wants to sit in a jail cell and tell Igor and Tank he was shot by a woman with a pink gun.
Humor. It is a difficult concept.
I think Sam was two layers deep into the humor. I like it.
“Humor. It is a difficult concept.”
Humor is the last refuge of a scoundrel !!
Sam I Am,
Humor is the first step in seeing the truth….of what is real…..
“Sam,
Humor is the first step in seeing the truth….of what is real…..”
Thanks for the insight, however….
In my world, other people are just movie props, imaginings, cut-out characters.
Which means that right now, I am writing to myself. Emmawright??
well, according to Samuel Johnson, patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels.
But… he’s dead, so maybe its time for a rewrite.
“But… he’s dead, so maybe its time for a rewrite.”
Well, somebody’s gotta do it. This is my candidate.
Absolutely Sam, you are correct in the assumption….
“Humor. It is a difficult concept.” Humor is the last refuge of a scoundrel !!
“Absolutely Sam”
My point, precisely.
I was browsing the “build it yourself AR-15” section of a LGS. I asked the counter guy to show me a particular AR upper, and then inquired about the manufacturer’s reputation for the barrel’s accuracy. He looked at me puzzled. So I asked him did the manufacturer state the approximate MOA to expect. He took on this amazingly condescending attitude and said “I don’t know anything about MOA, but accuracy depends on how good you are at shooting”.
I found out later the store is known to have rotten customer service and lacking expertise in firearms.
“I don’t know anything about MOA, but accuracy depends on how good you are at shooting”.
There ya’ go. Now that’s funny.
The saddest part is that the clown was right on both counts:
1) He didn’t know anything about MOA
and
2) For the vast majority of rifles, accuracy IS a matter of how well you shoot because the vast majority of rifles are more accurate than the vast majority of shooters.
I take that to mean “We don’t sell anything here worthy of a skilled marksman, so don’t ask.”
Although you asked about accuracy, what you wanted was precision. Precision is a function of the mechanical capability of the firearm/cartridge/sighting system, the goal being the smallest conical average spread possible at point of impact.
Accuracy is the shooter’s ability/technique to zero the precision output of a system such that the point of aim matches the point of impact consistently.
Accuracy tests have always fascinated. Seems that so long as a human in involved, one really does not know what the gun is capable of. Despite the mantra that “the gun is capable of better accuracy than the shooter behind it”, we don’t have tests that remove the human from the actual shooting.
Are there tests that are conducted using only mechanical devices that can be evaluated as being able to reproduce, every time, the same pressures on the firearm firing mechanism? In other words, a measurable rig, with a reliable trigger release device that removes human error, and mechanical error as far as possible? That would seem the only way to really know what a gun is capable of regards precision/accuracy.
@ Sam, aren’t you describing a Ransom Rest? I know they’re not always perfect (some slippage with grip inserts that don’t match the grips closely enough), but that seems to be the most consistent and repeatable mechanical device currently available for accuracy testing.
Ransom Rest may be sorta the idea. Does such a device use human or mechanical action to fire the gun?
My mental picture (yes, I put that out there for comment), is a stripped down rifle, no stock, no fore end appliance, no optics. Only fire control and barrel, mounted in some manner that eliminates as much as possible, external conditions regarding the mounting of the hardware in a jig, then some sort of mechanical device to squeeze the trigger. (so that the results can be repeated, completely independent of human operation)
The only way to hit what you’re shooting at is to aim at it!
That’s a real gem of wisdom. I’m gong to tuck that away with MANY if the things my co-workers and customers said when I sold guns.
Thanks John Madden
I’m thinking about replacing my current .357 with one that is more comfortable shooting magnum loads. A likely candidate is a 5.5″ Ruger Redhawk. I agree with the ladies.
“A likely candidate is a 5.5″ Ruger Redhawk. ”
Wait…..hold out for the 6.5 Creedmyth version.
I have the GP100 Match Champion with a 4.2” barrel. It shoots like a dream!
I have a Wiley Clapp GP100. Shoots great. Magnum loads are no problem.
6″ GP100 here. Full power .357s feel so good to shoot I use it when I need a gentle palm massage.
I have the 5.5″ Redhawk in .44 Mag, it’s great but your hand knows when you’ve put 50 rounds through it!!
I bet the .357 is way more comfortable to shoot.
It isn’t the fact that it’s pink, it’s that it’s an AirLight in .357 mag. Hence, the line “I’d rather just hit my hand with a ball peen hammer.”
She would probably happily carry a pink LC9s or Shield 9.
A lot easier to conceal than a ball peen hammer and last I checked ACE doesn’t have pink ball peen hammers. Either way, you will probably only get one shot at Bruno with either weapon, so the .357 wins as the most likely to incapacitate.
I did a quick search. Did you know there are quite a few tools available in pink ?
Found my brothers Christmas present while looking at a few. We normally buy each other horrible tee shirts and some sort of gag gift.
This year he’s getting a black tee shirt with glow in the dark skeletons making whoopee all over it and a pink tool set with matching pink tool belt.
Yes, Home Depot and ACE have several collections in pink. Unfortunately, none that I saw featured a pink ball peen hammer.
And, NO ONE will steal a pink gun!! 🙂 🙂
yes, and no one wants to shoot a .357 airweight, either.
yes, and no one wants to shoot a .357 airweight A SECOND TIME, either.
(fixed it for you)
True. I shot one at the range that a guy next to me had. Once. I put the gun down, smiled and said, “Good luck with that.”. I went back to shooting my GP100 with 1200fps rounds. His friend shot one cylinder and only shot .22s after.
I worked for a guy who went into a gun shop and bought a 5 shot .38 on the advice of the gun shop clerk who convinced him everything else was just too complicated to use.
I don’t work for him any longer.
My LGS is full of knowledgeable guys, it’s the ARtards coming in who give terrible advice to the other customers. Haven’t seen any guys I can remember behind a counter that have said anything too dumb, but I don’t frequent many different shops.
If it feels like hitting your hand with a ball peen hammer, imagine what it feels like to be on the other end.
In that scenario probably like a ball peen hammer. You know, Newton and his laws and stuff!
As I recall Newton’s laws of physics, that equal and opposite force must first exert itself on that air weight revolver before it can impose a force on your hand, and objects at rest resist being put into motion (just as objects in motion resist coming to a halt).
So I’m guessing it feels like a bigger ball peen hammer. Only bloodier.
And with an expanding pointy end versus the hammer’s smooth rounded end.
When you think about it, if you run someone through with a sword, there has to be an equal amount of pressure on your hand as there is on your victim’s torso.
But, last time I ran someone through with a sword I made sure my hand was holding the fatter rounded end and that I was pushing the thinner skinny end into them. I remembered something my physics teacher had said about high heels and elephants. I cannot recall exactly since I was kind of like Beavis and Butthead then, huh, huh, huh…he said high heels.
Do pink ball peen hammers come in 6.5 Creedmoor?
Find a good shop , one in the country that is small , been there for a good many years , with knowledgeable people. Preferably owner operated , you will be happy you did. I use one such shop , the only shop I need. The customer is allways right , if the clerk at your store doesn’t know moa , from aim , I’d say find an old timer in a shop like mine.
Is the customer always right if they don’t know MOA from aim?
Discussion of MOA in gun circles is a pretty dang recent thing. I’d theorize started when the grinding on bolt vs AR for precision shootin became a thing around the cracker barrel.
Where have you gone, Robert Farago?
“Where have you gone, Robert Farago?”
Meeting with Mrs. Robinson?
Kukukachu to you, Mrs. Robinson.
Jesus loves you more than you will know.
This sounds like the beginning of a TTAG sing along.
You are right, we need a TTAG sing along Canon/Round Song (ROFL) 😉
So he built The Truth About Cars, then sold it. Then The Truth About Guns, and sold that. The Truth About Knives happened, too, but I’m not sure what is going on with it.
Maybe he’s hatching the next TTA site? The Truth About Cigars? Scotch? Laying on the couch?
The Truth About Retirement.
The truth about good ham sammidges.
The Truth about Progs
The Truth About chasing Israeli Supermodels while drinking 25 year old Bourbon and driving a vintage Maserati.
I have an S & W, M & P 640 revolver in .357 Mag with a 1.875 barrel.
It is painful to shoot. You have to really hold on tight to get any
accurate groups. But if I ever need to shoot a threatening target,
I will rest easy that the target will be neutralized better than with
some other lesser caliber. I hope I never need it, but if I do need
it, it will save my life.
Now imagine if it weighed half as much, and that’s the AirLite.
When you buy a Ruger No1 in 458 Win Mag, there is a reason why it came with most of a 20 round box of ammunition.
The rifle was pre-owned, and the seller could
not tolerate the recoil, so the remainder of
the box ammo was included.
Back to the origianl posting cartoon:
If you do a little research into Dixon Diaz you may find that he was being entirely sacastic with this cartoon in response to the standard women’s magazine/TV template. Just sayin’…
How a posting can morph into this thread is one of the wonders of the internet and non face-to-face communication.
That’s Diaz’s cartoon, but we Photoshopped in the dialogue. Just FYI.
K- that makes sense too, somehow. Good to get the intelligent “dialogue” going
I’m very happy shooting full-on .357Mags from my 6″ S&W 586.
I’m not happy shooting .38Spl+P from my S&W 642 Airweight, but I do it anyway.
I’m overjoyed to never shoot .357Mags from an Airlight. Ever.
.357 AirLite revolver will stop anybody. It will stop them training with it.