Just in case Bruce Krafft decides to deconstruct the 22 percent stat touted by Ceasefire Washington’s new bus ads, I’ll restrict myself to a one-word response: fail. But in a nice way. The gun grabbers usually resort to emotional appeals that short-circuit rational thought. You know: crying mothers, bewildered toddlers. This ad invites debate (which gun control advocates inevitably lose) and encourages indifference. A two-fer! But I do like Ralph Fascitelli’s advice for home owners concerned about self-defense: “Get a baseball bat or get a knife.” Yeah, that’ll resonate. Especially with older people. [h/t to David Brown]
22 times likely to use the gun on a family member than on an intruder. Wow, even if that a wild exaggeration, you’d have to be pretty stupid or stubborn to have a gun in the home.
Wait. Even if it’s not true we should act as if it is? That sir is some convoluted not to say disingenuous logic.
shh! Don’t disrupt the narrative!
“Even if it’s not true we should act as if it is?”
Yup, that pretty much sums up the anti-gun stance right there. Don’t you love it when mikeb does our job for us?
That’s not what I said. Do you have no integrity and honesty at all? Why would you change what I said.
22 to 1 is truly alarming. But let’s pretend Henegan had some of the formulas wrong or was cheating a bit for emphasis. Cut it in half, that halve it again.
You guys love guns first. Then you decide to justify them. When you look at the home shootings, it’s a hard sell, but you keep doin’ it.
Mike,
If you think that’s shocking, you should see the figure for when you don’t have a gun in the house – it’s 99 to 1.
How is that possible? You need to understand what that figure actually is and what it’s not. What it is is the number of family and acquaintance homicides by firearm in the home divided by the number of justifiable homicides by firearm pursuant to a home invasion.
It is NOT how much more likely you are to kill a family member if you own a gun versus if you do not own a gun.
It does NOT count any defensive use of a firearm outside the home.
It does NOT count any defensive use of a firearm inside the home that stops short of fatality.
When you think about it clearly, neither of these statistics is terribly surprising – they amount to saying that murders of family and friends are far more common than justifiable homicide pursuant to home invasion. Nor should it surprise us that the ratio is higher when guns aren’t present – having a gun dramatically increases your odds against a violent criminal.
Unless you live in a cement box with no appliances, no windows, not even a method to clean your body as it accumulates filth, this is a baseless and hypocritical statement. More people die falling down the stairs, ban all multiple floor buildings! For the children!
Just another government-funded organization living off the taxpayer teat. Anti-gunning is just their particlar government approved angle that will receive funding. These organizations exist to employ lazy liberals in easy jobs with taxpayer money.
Not that I’m agreeing with the thinking here, but there’s a big difference between 22x in the video and 22% mentioned in the post.
Also, I’ve accidentally cut myself several times with the “safe alternatives to guns for home defense” (knives), but never shot myself. Just a thought.
So, the anti-gun proponents have no problem with knifing someone or crushing the skull of an intruder like a ripe melon. Those seem to be really up close and personal ways to injure/kill someone. No wonder they don’t want to use a firearm, it’s way to impersonal and unsatisfying. Just saying.
It’s pretty obvious that antis are generally far more aggressive, oppressive, rude, and all-around indecent people…no doubt, their psychotic adherence to “peace” is in fact compensation for their subconscious penchant for violence.
Silver, that’s outrageous. There are name callers on both sides, but in my opinion you pro-gun fanatics are far more, well, fanatical. Robert keeps it off the pages of this blog, but just look at the reaction to Colin or Dennis Henigan. Imagine if Robert wasn’t keeping a tight hold on the reigns.
As usual, the loonie extremists cannot see beyond the hand in front of their face. Q. What would happen to home residents if all guns were banned? A. In modern America, with its lack of unifying cultural values, vision, and ethics, the number of home break-ins to include assaults/rapes/murders would go ballistic. Why do so many fail to grasp the Law of Unintended Consequences? The one group that would benefit is government which would be called upon to massively expand its police state powers and presence. If schools stressed self-reliance and self-sufficiency, America would be a much better place.
22X higher use on a family member? I can see it now, a group of anti-gunners deciding what numbers to pull out of thin air for the ad:
“Hey Julie, what number should we make-up?”
“Oh, let’s see; what is that popular bullet caliber I heard about? Oh yes, it’s called a .22 caliber. Hey Jack, say it is 22X more likely. That’s an easy number for people to memorize”.
It’s unfortunate this false statistic keeps getting repeated. As one commenter mentioned above, there’s a big difference between 22x (2200%) and the 22% mentioned in the post. I think it would also be useful for this post to link to the various references that discredit this statistic.
It’s not about the message, it’s about the funding of the easy jobs.
First of all, Mr. Flashatushy or whatever, I live alone so the odds of me killing a family member with my guns are, like, a gagillion to one against (I’m using a mathematic term that this Mensa-member might actually understand).
Second of all, after grandma gets beaten and raped, will your advice be for her to get herself a supplemental Medicare policy? ‘Cause she’s gonna need one of she listens to your BS.
Finally, my advice to all gungrabbers is the same as the advice I give to people after a DGU — please oh please STFU. From the bottom of my heart. I’m begging you. STFU. The world will be a better place, and you won’t sound quite as stoopid.
Harshly worded post to follow.
“I live alone so the odds of me killing a family member with my guns are, like, a gagillion to one against”
— Now you’ve invited in the stats that living alone with a gun as opposed to living alone without a gun has 1,000,000 X greater probability of suicide by gun. What the anti-gun nuts will fail to state is that suicide rich environments like gun-less Japan have a higher overall suicide rate than a gun rich environment like America. Using gun-grabber mathematical rules and logic, guns must therefore reduce suicides.
Ralph,
How does a retired attorney possessing intelligence, humor and eloquence not have an in-house harem?
NTE, I often wonder about that while I’m cleaning my guns, writing stuff for TTAG or blowing sh!t up at the range. I guess there’s just no accounting for taste.
On the other hand, my guns don’t care whether the toilet seat is up or down, they don’t have any ignoramus friends that I have to be nice to, and their family members aren’t drug addicts or thieves. So it’s all good.
Ralph, I happen to agree with you and practice what you preach as well! I figure avoiding a future 3rd ex-wife is sound thinking, for once.
I guess if you are a criminal you now know that you can go over to Ralph Fascitelli’s house and steal his TV with impunity. All he will have is a knife or a bat, and probably no training with either of those two weapons.
Well, he once hit .300 in Little League and he does a fine job of untrussing the Thanksgiving turkey. Do those count?
Whoa! Lets get the facts straight!
This study was done in 1998 by Kellerman and published by the Journal of Trauma.
It took medical and police records from a certain period of time from incidents in Memphis, Seattle, and Galveston.
ACTUALLY, they determined that there were 22 times more accidental/suicidal/murderous shootings than justifiable homicides.
THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU ARE 22 times more likely!
A real study would have counted the amount of gun owners (legal) and got the data of murders/suicides/accidents that happened from ALL homes with a LEGAL gun. Not the case in this study.
SO the data is BS. thank you.
LOOK IT UP.
Now stop that. Your obsession with facts is seriously straining the integrity of millions of pairs of rose-colored lenses.
Hmm, $50,000 for 100 buses for 6 weeks. I’m sure RF and friends could come up with an eye-catching attention-grabbing pro-gun-rights bus ad. Is that in the TTAG budget, or should we pass the hat around?
This is what desperation looks like on the side of a bus.
From http://www.washingtonceasefire.org
Who We Are
Executive Director Gregory Roberts is a graduate of Yale who worked for many years as a journalist for the Seattle Post-Intelligencer newspaper. As executive director, he carries out the policies of the Board of Directors and is the link between the board and the communities of Washington State.
Board President Ralph Fascitelli has been a member of the CeaseFire Board since 1999, when he joined in response to the tragic shooting at Columbine High School in Colorado. He has been president since 2005 and has been CeaseFire’s most visible spokesperson during that time. He was a personal friend of the late Thomas C. Wales — a federal prosecutor in Seattle murdered in his home by an unidentified gunman — and is committed to carrying out Mr. Wales’ vision for a 50% reduction to gun violence in Washington State. Mr. Fascitelli has had a long and successful business career, including leadership positions at Proctor & Gamble, H.J. Heinz and J. Walter Thomson Advertising. He is married and the father to two young adults. He, too, holds a BA from Yale as well as an MBA from UCLA.
Two Yalies finding a better paying job on the government dole.
worked for the Clintons
Next tidbit. Those “family members” so savagely gunned down included people violating restraining orders, defense from domestic assault, and if you were in the hood and knew the bastard before he tried to kill you. Like how the newsie picked Mr. Camera Vest to ramble 2nd Amendment repeatedly and not deflate the basball fans argument.
Why would those examples NOT count, Greg?
They are counted. The point is that they are justifiable shootings
I live in Washington State. The add is at best ridiculous. At worst crominal if anyone follows this guys advice for a knife or baseball bat. We here have among the best gun laws in the country. Open carry, app, finger prints, and background check you have a CCW. With that buy any firearm and walk that moment. Silencers allowed. I personally have anough firearms and ammo to arm a small team in my home. Just about everyone knows in case of “civil unrest” come to my place for safety. But I degrees. Thing is as the gun grabbers here have tried to take guns away they always get knocked down. This add is a wast of time and money. Anyone who gives up their firearm because of it is a sheepel, and should have nbever had one to begin with.
I have been a gun owner for about 7 years, and have keeped a pistol and rifle in my home. I have always practiced gun safety at home and else where. I never let children touch my firearms, they are under lock and key. I have spend hundreds of hours properly training with them. My wife is also trained. If a friend ask to see my firearms I make sure I a there to supervise at all times. This being said I have never had any accident discharge or injury or fatality in my home. The metropolitan population is approx. 1,800,000 in the city I live in. I have lived here for ten years. Last year. I have heard about 12 incidences about homicides outside the home, where about half of the people involved knew each other. I have heard and searched for incidences involving homicides inside the home and found only 5, and only 2 involved a family member, sadly both involved one child being killed and the unsafe keeping of firearms. The closed incident I have had involving a firearms was when two of my friends being shot in drive-bys, both were shot inside the home as the bullets penetrated the home’s exterior. One was hit in the leg with a .45 ACP and the other friend was hit in the back with a 12 gauge steel core slug. Both of my friends DID NOT know there assailant and the assialants “were not trying to shoot at them” which makes me believe they did not know how to operate a firearm or are novices. As you can see in my situation I am more likely to get killed by someone I don’t know than a family member. Whether you believe in gun ownership or not, it’s always good to know how to properly and safely handle a firearm because you can never predicted another persons actions.
Washington Ceasefire is LAME. They are not only trying to take away our 2nd Amendment rights to keep and bear arms but they’re also infringing upon our 1st Amendment rights to free speech through censoring by deleting comments and banning people from their facebook wall that have alternative views than they do.
Our website is proof that they have been deleting and censoring comments from their wall. You will see that they no longer have any of the comments that aren’t in favor of their message.