AR-15 rifle
Dan Z. for TTAG
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By Will

All American gun owners have, at some point, heard the refrain, “You don’t need an AR-15″ from Fudds and leftists who can’t comprehend why anyone might need a firearm that can fire more than a few rounds. “Just buy a bolt-action hunting rifle,” they say. Or, perhaps their line of reasoning is more like, “You’re a monster for owning that scary black weapon of war. How do you dare to own a gun that’s responsible for the deaths of so many children?”

Of course, we who understand the “shall not be infringed” part of the Second Amendment know that those “arguments” are ridiculous. There is no reason you need to prove that you “need” any particular firearm. The Second Amendment is there to preserve our God-given right to own whatever we please (with a few unreasonable legislated exceptions).

And, of course, guns don’t commit violent crimes or mass shootings. Violent, lawless criminals do. While I agree with both of those lines of reasoning, I think that the scenes from places like Minneapolis, Seattle and Portland have given us AR-15 owners one more way by which to defend our right to keep and bear those “scary black rifles.” The AR-15 is precisely what many of us need to defend ourselves from violent mobs and rioters.

portland riots
(AP Photo/Noah Berger)

Who hasn’t seen the videos of anarchy, intimidation, and violence from cities around the nation as of late? Violent criminals smash shop windows, loot and burn stores, march around in all-black uniforms to intimidate law-abiding citizens, and, worst of all, violently attack and, in some cases, try to kill innocent bystanders and shop owners.

minneapolis floyd protest riot police
A protester in an Elmo mask dances during the Justice for George Floyd Philadelphia Protest on Saturday, May 30, 2020. (AP Photo/Matt Rourke)

Citizens have been dragged from their cars and assaulted, shop owners have been intimidated, beaten, and killed, and bystanders and journalists have been attacked by vicious mobs. While all of that has happened in riots before, these recent riots are the worst in recent memory and are far more widespread than any others.

What have they shown law-abiding Americans, beside the fact that many of their fellow citizens are willing to act like violent thugs when given the ability to do so? That one of the reasons you need a firearm like an AR-15 is to defend yourself from a violent mob when the police can’t or won’t do anything to help.

nationwide riots
(AP Photo/Wong Maye-E)

If you were a shop owner under attack by dozens of looters, what would you want to defend yourself? A Remington 700, the epitome of the “hunting rifle” that Fudds and gun-grabbers have temporarily deemed “acceptable” for Americans to own? No, of course not. You’d want an AR-15 with as large of a magazine as possible.

Riot looting looter
Photo by: John Nacion/STAR MAX/IPx

If you were an innocent motorist surrounded by a vicious mob banging on and rocking your car, a situation many Americans have found themselves in recently, what would you want to have to defend yourself with? A Colt SAA revolver? No, you’d want something with a bit more firepower and capacity. The Peacemaker is great and a beautiful firearm, but to fight off a crowd that large you’d want more than a six-shooter.

The lesson of all this is that the police will not defend you if the mob attacks. When it really counts, you will probably be outnumbered and the police will be preoccupied, if they haven’t already been withdrawn or defunded. That’s why you need an AR-15. It may be the ideal weapon to even the odds against a vicious, violent mob.

Americans are starting to recognize that. It’s why they’re are buying more guns than ever right now, most of which are semi-automatic handguns or, yes, those “scary black rifles” that the gun control industry and Fudds love to hate.

Furthermore, the current national unrest has shown the true purpose of the Second Amendment; it wasn’t included in the Bill of Rights to make sure you can hunt. It was meant to protect your right to own the weapons with which you can effectively defend yourself and your family from a violent criminal, an unchecked mob or a tyrannical government.

The push for more gun control had been gaining steam in many states before the COVID national emergency and riots. Politicians on both the right and left were attacking our right to own AR-15s because they said that those firearms had been used in mass shootings and were, therefore, unacceptable.

That line of reasoning is patently ridiculous. It always has been because it places the blame for those crimes on the guns rather than the violent criminals who committed hem. Those justifications now look even more out of touch because increased gun control would mean that Americans couldn’t defend themselves from the violent mobs and the criminals that are now freely roaming and terrorizing many of our cities.

Law-abiding citizens are under siege. Now, hopefully, a broader swath of Americans are seeing why they should own an AR-15 and why their fellow citizens should be able to, also.

I’ve never been one to think that you should have to prove your need to own anything. I certainly don’t think you should have to show you have a need for a specific type of firearm. The Second Amendment protects our right to do so — it’s our certificate of need.

But, if there were ever a time when that need was obvious, it’s right now.

St. Louis McCloskey Kim Gardner
(Laurie Skrivan/St. Louis Post-Dispatch via AP, File)

The McCloskeys are proof of that. Without their AR-15, they might well have been injured or killed or had their home looted and burned by the mob. Be like them (with better, safer gun handling skills). Buy an AR-15 and be ready to defend yourself…assuming you live in a state that gives you that option. And if you don’t, contact your legislators.


Will is the author of the blog,

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  1. Burn,Loot,Murder rampaging in the streets is one reason,the best is as Americans,no reason at all is needed.
    As far as I recall it’s entitled the Bill Of Rights,not the bill of needs.

    • Today’s violent protesters are walking in the footsteps of the Weather Underground and other groups of demented residue from the sixties.
      And who in the sixties, seventies was their dear leader? That would be the communist terrorist Bill Ayers. Bill Ayers is the lily white slug who designed a bomb that detonated and blew his girlfriend and two comrades to bits. That bomb was intended for US Soldiers stationed at Fort Dix who would be attending a dance with civilians.
      It gets worse…Ayers advocated followers to “Kill Their Parents.” Most people with common sense would keep a distance from a nutcase advocating killing parents but not b. h. obama, he launched his political career from the home of Ayers and had a long close working relationship with Ayers along with Marxist mentoring from Ayers.
      Obviously content of character flew out the window and change change change, obama obama obama and yes we can flew in the window.
      What we are witnessing happening in the streets is proof positive when marxist poop is sugarcoated politically inept history illiterate useful idiots will eat it up and want more. Connect the dots and chances are good Bill Ayers et al is the head of the snake.

      • I respect the fact that the Weather Underground put their money where their mouth was and actually did something besides pissing & moaning, shutting down traffic, and throwing canned food. Even the terrorists have gone soft these days.

        • You “respect” the weathermen who killed armored car guards and blew up buildings, while advocating for the extermination of 25 million Americans to prevent a “counter revolution”?

          Ayers and all of them should haven executed decades ago. Their children, fellow terrorists and their protégés are actively involved in the current insurrection. Boudin is a DA in SF, letting criminals run free. Obama set us up for this BS, and convicted terrorist Susan Rosenberg is managing the funneling of millions to Burn Loot Murder.

    • Ar’s are great and so are AK’s for scaring off violent mobs.
      I have both and practice lots with them.
      However, I am going to go out on a limb and suggest a pistol caliber carbine for mobs.
      They are shorter, often with folding stock for truck/car use.
      They come with 30 round mags, some have higher capacity available.
      They are lighter, good for if you have to carry it around all night.
      9 mm is plenty powerful enough as the mob usually scatters at the first shots.
      And there are .45 and 10 mm pcc’s for those who want more stopping power.

      • I’ve always liked the concept of high capacity pistol caliber carbines where ARs and AKs would be a bit much in confined spaces. It’s an alternative to a shotgun that doesn’t usually have more than eight shells without extra length and a few modifications.

      • ” I am going to go out on a limb and suggest a pistol caliber carbine for mobs.”

        I’ll go you one better a pistol caliber pistol, all the virtues of the carbine but with a even handier shorter barrel. Most store in a backpack and they are perfect as your vehicle gun, legal anywhere a pistol is.

      • I just found something interesting in a bag of misc. range ammo, one lone round of 147 gr. ‘Black Talon’ in 9mm, when I bought my first new handgun, a Daewoo DP-51.

        I think I might make a pendant out of it…

    • Geoff PR,

      I wasn’t sure that I could agree with you until I watched the video and heard his disturbing laughter as he ran away after tossing that Molotov cocktail!

      This newly revealed evil Elmo gives me the willies far beyond anything that the Joker evil character ever invoked in me.

  2. If stuck in traffic, or a mob is outside your house, on your street, what the hell are you going to do with ten rounds? Depend on the Police? Good luck waiting for them to come. They can’t even protect themselves.

    • In traffic my F250 is quite a weapon. Only 10 rounds, shoot the 10 looters in front, reload and shoot the next 10 too stupid to take the hint from the first 10. If you are such a poor shot that you need 30, don’t insult those who can shoot. Honesrly, I don’t care how many rounds you have. None of my business.

      • For someone who doesn’t care how many rounds someone has, you sure do sound like a snobby bitch about it. I’m pretty accurate too, still would rather have 30 instead of 10. I mean, honestly a SAW would be my first choice, but a bit pricey, so I’ll find a medium and it usually involves at least 30-40 round mags.

    • see here’s the thing, most people don’t like being shot. So I say, pick your first 10 and lets get it rolling. If the threat of getting shot doesn’t give enough pause to escape the crowd the first shots and someone dropping will. Watch that video where that idiot brandishing an AK at that mobbed car in Austin got slotted. That crowd seemed to disperse pretty fast in all directions.

      • Right, and immediately followed by someone shooting at the vehicle. Had it been seconds earlier, that driver might have been killed. Get in, get out as fast as possible. If one shot clears the mob, step on the gas and don’t stop in the secondary zone. There was another video of someone rolling down the hwy in a jeep that already had a flat tire trying to escape one mob, and was fired at as soon as it went past another group. Granted, that shooter killed his own commie buddies or something like that on the opposite side of the road, but still, if I get caught in it, I’m fucking flooring it and ducking down behind that engine bay. If someone hits the side and a bullet goes through the door or makes it’s way into the cab, it’s because they are lucky. Also, chicane as needed.

    • Once you blow the biggest guy away do you think someone else wants to be the second guy to get shot?

      The third?

      If you’ve gotten to the point where 4-9 people are bleeding out and you are still under attack I don’t think 20 more cartridges will help.

      • Hannibal……Hmmm, ….ask someone who has been in combat whether more rounds made a difference with 10 bleeding out in front of their position. This is war for our country on our home turf.

        • You’re not in combat. You’re sitting in front of a keyboard typing about a situation which is ALSO not combat. Try to keep up.

        • Hannibal, everything from words to money to bullets and fists are weapons. Use all of them.

          After that “accidental” koran burning incident, I had around 1,000 – 2,000 people outside my PB. The whole platoon was kitted up and on the Hesco and posts. Although nothing happened, more bullets would have been very nice. The 240 would have likely scattered them though, along with a few 40MMs

        • Hannibal:

          take action to reduce or prevent (something bad or undesirable).

          Having to shoot your way out of a mob sounds pretty fucking combatative to me. The one behind the keyboard with the mouth is you, take your own advice (as usual) you fuddley fuckstick. Fuddly McFudderton aka Hannibal – the fuddliest gunslinger these parts of TTAG.

          “mUH aCcuRacY, dEr ReVolVeR spEEd LoaDs dEr” – Hannibal probably.

      • Cuck talk.

        The whole:

        Herp Derp “iF yOu NeEd MoRe ThEn 4 rOuNdS yOuR aLrEaDy DEAD”!!!!

        Shut the fuck up with your defeatist, leftist, cuck shit.

        Real American men will use exactly how many rounds they need you little bitch.

        • Hannibal is a fucking cock sucker. He’d beg for a ride in that 2500 with a 6″ lift after being caught in a mob with his FUDD revolver.

      • You don’t even own a gun, it’s like Biden commenting on gun ownership. Thanks I’ll stick with 30 plus rounds and expend them all if need be. Then reload until over run or killed.

  3. Here in the people’s republic of ca a real ar pattern rifle is out of the question. I will have to make do with a 7+1 12 ga and multiple pistols for back up.

    However will I defend myself against those larping soy boys?

    • Here in Kommiefornia, I have MANY multiple 10 round mags, and a real AR-15 pattern rifle because, in my house, I remove the MAGLOCK and replace it with a standard magazine release.

      In the car, a pistol is good enough because the leftist vermin run like cockroaches when shots are fired.

      • I have the maglock with a kingpin, after some practice a mag change only takes an extra half a sec. If anything, by now most POTG need to make sure they have functional and reliable holsters and rifle slings. Suggest to have several IFAKs.
        For ballistic protection, a minimalist set-up, a carrier w/2 level 3 plates for $165:
        For communications, after cell sites go down, walkie talkies, CB is an option, but ham radio is best (get you ham lic).

        • Don’t need ham (callsign withheld). When SHTF, nobody is going to care about pirates. Biz-band, Marine, GMRS, MURS (~150MHz) is accessible via UV5R for $25. Channel 3. 73.

      • My California compliant “featureless” AR doesn’t have a mag lock either, nor is it require to do so under our bizarre and byzantine laws. But I am stuck with 10 round mags.

        Then again, way up here in the Land of Jefferson I am far from the madding crowd. Though we have our fair share of Democrats (but still a minority), I haven’t seen any evidence of Antifa or its ilk. I don’t think I will see any either unless the cities fall and chaos reigns. If they come, it won’t be until winter. Right now it’s too damn hot!

    • I have two in CA compliant forms (one fixed mag, one KaliKey) that are swappable to full pattern within 30 seconds if necessary in a SHTF situation. The other ARs remain legally “disassembled” (a nylon zip tie through the takedown pin hole preventing the upper/lower to close) and in the safe.

      However, in recent conversations with friends and neighbors, I’ve discovered that I’m by no means the only one. If the balloon goes up and anyone tries to mess with our street, there will be some very disappointed intruders.

      I know of only one single person in all my circle of friends, relatives, neighbors, LEOs, etc. who willingly registered his AR here in CA on the “assault weapon” registry for compliance. Everybody else either went featureless, built their own from 80% lowers, or just keep them full pattern and out of sight.

      • A neighbor of mine does not have a compliant rifle, and did not hear of the registration requirement until I told him about it. I suspect there are many just like him.

    • Can’t you just put a dumb CA stock on it, remove the muzzle device and call it a day? They look stupid but I wouldn’t want to be shot by one.

      • You have to have some way of getting rid of the pistol grip (You know that they cause madness, right?) or convert to a “mag locked” configuration without a Bullet Button. (Yes of course there are work arounds, but they are a bit pricey.) Flash hiders are bad, muzzle brakes are OK. Go figure. They tried to ban grandfathered 20 or 30 round mags, but what they got instead was a trial court injunction against the limitation, currently partially stayed on appeal but in effect long enough to permit a “freedom week” where the purchase of such mags was legal, and which precludes all prosecutions for possession of hi-cap mags.

        • Yeah I mean a non-pistol stock. There’s a lot of options out there… none of them great but I’d pick that before messing with the mag unless it’s a range toy.

  4. Car surrounded by a violent, angry MOB? First rule of a gun fight, have a gun, any gun. I promise after you perform the Mozambique drill on the first attacker the others will be running. Worried about just having a SSA revolver? Ever been to a Cowboy action shoot, it sure looks like with a lot of practice a SSA shoots like a semi auto.

    • Not to mention someone who is practiced in the art of the lever gun and it practical deployment.

      • If the S ever does hit the F in my neighborhood, I’ll be rocking the AR only because the rest of the family is much less familiar with it than they are with our leverguns. Wouldn’t say I need an AR-15, as much as I *wanted* one. I’d feel pretty happy about having either the AR or my .30-30 in hand if I had to repel invaders.

    • Agreed. If you’ve got a single shot weapon you may be in trouble. But if you drop two people, the rest are not going to want to be #3.

      It’s not actually a zombie apocalypse. Self-preservation wins out.

      • And your years of experience in these situations makes you an expert? GTFO you are a lying sack of shit.

    • Mozambique drill is a waste of ammo unless they’re wearing armor. 2 to the chest should be enough. El Presidente may be a more appropriate drill.

  5. I have an AR-15, an AR-10, an AR-9 (Uses glock mags) and an M-1 Garand. My AR-15 is a competition model and weights 16lbs, so it’s not useful. I have been working on issues with the AR-10 stovepiping and so I don’t fully trust it. The AR-9 works flawlessly so it’ll be good for close in stuff but for mid range, I think I’ll use the Garand. Not sure if my surplus M2 Ball rounds will go through plates or not, but they’d hurt. And 9mm and .30-06 are pretty easy to find:) Plus if bayonet drill is called for, smashing with an M-1 is better than an AR.

    • A few years ago I kept hearing about “high powered assault rifles.” I thought, they can’t talking about 5.56 or 223!!! The 12 year old girl next door hunts deer with a more powerful rifle. Ok, some of that is a joke since I am very familiar with the 5.56 given 24 years in the military and I am very fond of that platform, but that doesn’t change the math.

      HOWEVER, I saw a good deal a few years ago on a DPMS Oracle 308. The few that are left are selling for $400 more than I paid. For the people that said DPMS is “Don’t Purchase Me Stupid” I say thank you. I was able to get a rifle that is very accurate with M80 and the next time it malfunctions it will be the first time. I have put a couple hundred rounds through it.

      This is off topic a bit, but thanks to all the Remington haters for the deal I got on an R1 too. Maybe that was just Travis and his 1911 is dead article. Either way…I’m happy with it. It’s accurate and feeds 230 grain hollow points. Although I am a little confused about the fondness for a 1911 in 9mm in a recent article.

      AR10 is a fine rifle and mine works well…I just need to remember to get a good cheek weld since it’s not a “high-powered” 5.56…

      • I have an AR 10 that I have never fired. Built it myself. Even has a nice FFP optic and a bipod. Part of the reason is that I can’t order ammo over the internet any more (thanks, California), and most of what I find locally is high end hunting ammo with a high end price. The second reason is that the brothers planning on building a long range rifle range have been tied up in red tape for years, and their range hasn’t opened yet. I want to be able to shoot farther than the 100 yards available at the BLM ranges nearby. Seems almost pointless to do so.

        • I was lucky in that I bought a “weekender” of 7.62 NATO from Lucky Gunner late last fall. I also found some at an eastern sporting goods chain that was nice enough to buy out the location previously owned by a subsidiary of those dicks at Dicks.

          Some of the other sporting goods stores here have had Remington Core-Lokt for about 75c per round once in a while.

          We haven’t lost Pennsylvania yet!

          It took me a minute to figure out that BLM also means Bureau of Land Management!!!

        • “BLM Ranges”

          Yea, they are urban environment too. Get some CQB on real quick. Bring NODS.

  6. The “why”for owning them is moot.

    It’s called the Bill of Rights. Not the Bill of Needs.

  7. Why do you think that the left has been after “assault rifles” for decades, when these weapons are used less often than hand and feet to kill people? Most gun murders are committed with handguns in the hands of people who are prohibited by law from touching said gun. Most AR-15 owners are law abiding even though many of the laws they obey are unconstitutional.

  8. I’m told there’s a short stack 9mm drum to fit some of the Glock models, and that it will function in my Ruger PC Carbine 9mm. So far I only see Glock compatible drums for their full size 9mm pistols, as in a tall magazine stack. That hangs too far down below the carbine, and all the unsupported weight wiggles the magazine stack around, causes misfeeds.

    So for now, the carbine with Ruger SR9 17 round mags (a dozen) is how that’s setup. Along with the SR9 pistol.

    But I thought about this well before the current apocalypse, as a reaction to terror attacks. None of this current apocalypse has been around anyplace I live. The rumours have, but nothing has come of those rumours.

    Looks like a lot of over reaction to me.

    Maybe some of you folks should move someplace quieter?

      • I’m on the CDNN email list for sales and deals. Have 10 of those 33 round magazines on order.

        I’ve bought a lot from CDNN over the years. Still have a box of ten Magpul 30round Gen 3, window, with the top cover, in “”Sand” color for the AR15. Still in the original plastic bags, just have so many AR mags (Magpul, Thermold, C Products, others) I never did open any of them up.

        CDNN is always a good suggestion though for anyone looking for deals on magazines. Others would do well to click your link and save the website in their Bookmarks/Favorites.

    • You would let these protesters beat you to death because they are peaceful as per your comments.

      The comedy is golden tonight.

      • The only way to get to your conclusion is to ignore what I right and just type whatever the fuck you feel like. But that’s okay, some folks need to entertain themselves.

        • He’s not wrong. It’s hard to ignore the truth. Your comment here is highly ironic.

  9. Let me leave these right here:

    Look for nations that have been around since 1789 that have not had one or more violent changes in government.

    Was at the Antietam civil war battlefield over the weekend. As i read the signs and monuments, I couldnt help but think there might be new ones needed soon……

    • Only this time around it won’t be North Versus South,it will be Marxist’s versus Americans.

      • It will in truth be largely urban vs rural. There are conservative and conservative leaning libertarians (disappointing as that movement has been recently) in major cities that would side with the rural, but they are definitely the minority.

        • The urbanites will be hysterical to watch. Gangs looting, degenerates working hard to write anthems, design uniforms and square away pronouns, the Pelosis and Karen’s whining “we should be winning” while avoiding doing anything remotely constructive, the true believers sleeping until noon and working through hangovers.

          It’ll be a scene, man.

          All rural has to do is redirect tractor trailers for a month and it’ll be over.

        • “All rural has to do is redirect tractor trailers for a month and it’ll be over.”

          Those tractor trailers are going to have mysterious ‘break-downs’ while still in flyover country. And by the time the cops stop to see what is happening, they will find the driver bound up with duct-tape and the trailer looted… 🙂

        • “…All rural has to do is redirect tractor trailers for a month and it’ll be over….”

          Exactly right. Can even stop all interstate travel if needed. Trucks stop running and the areas that can’t feed themselves end up very hungry.

        • Shire-man,

          That there was funny stuff!

          You, sir, win the Intertubez for best comment of the day!

        • And watch as those in the starving cities become “humanitarians” to stay alive.

        • I own a 18 wheeler and 4 trailers, you’re not going to have to make much of a case for me not to leave flyover country as I haven’t for several years.

          It cost me about $240 in tolls last time I decided to go from Ohio to Trenton, NJ. I don’t pay tolls for the privilege of paying fuel tax to drive freight to a bunch of ungrateful bastards.

          Let the liberal city dwellers walk when the gas runs out in a day, let them go hungry after 3 days when the markets run out of food, and let them pick up rocks and sticks in the woods as they come to attack us bitterly clinging deplorables with our guns.

          If you’re a city dwelling conservative or anyone with the sense God gave a turnip, now would be a great time to start planning and preparing. While you neighbors are focusing on their emotions to the problems, you can be ahead of the game working on the solution.

          • let them go hungry after 3 days when the markets run out of food

            It won’t take three days, Hunts point was doing on demand last time I was there, straight off the big truck, across the dock and right in the local delivery trucks.. 24 hours tops no more food inbound to the city…

        • I’ve been hoping the food supply gets cut in half for a while now, if not worse. I mean, sounds fucked up, but it sure would solve the urban problem really quick and remind people how dependant they are for “groceries”. I can do without 99% of the shit I buy, truth be told. Cut that power off too. I mean, I like technology, but that would definitely be the end game for the soy crowd. No twitter? Holy shit it would be normal in a week when they have to see what war looks like in person.

  10. I remember before the big run on firearms that you could buy a budget AR for around $350-$400. Especially in that price range for used or a build your own. Prices have dramatically increased since then, but there are still deals out there. Heck, even a Ruger PC-9 takedown Carbine that takes Glock 30+ rounds and quality hollow point ammunition or a Ruger 10-22 takedown carbine with their 25 round mags and CCI high velocity fragmenting ammunition will do in a pinch. The Ruger Mini-30 or Mini-14 rifles are okay, but are just too pricey for with they offer in my opinion.

    • A year ago last spring, Mil Spec. AR lowers were 39.99 ea.,it was time to stock up.

      • Yeah, cheap for you guys in free states. Here in California it would cost me $25 for the required background check and another $25 for the dealer fee, plus shipping and sales tax. Suddenly not such a great deal.

      • Take a gander at what 80% lowers are going for.
        I took 5 unfinished billet lowers for AR15’s over to the local gunshop and sold them for 3 times what I paid for them. Not to the store though, one of the guys who is always there when I go there saw them and pounced. He made the offer and since it was over 3 times more than I expected to get for them of course I said yes.
        I finished 6 lowers and these were never going to be used. Guy was acting like I had brought unobtainium in. I had given the jig to a friend years ago. Apparently that is highly desirable too.

        • I dunno man, PSA still has a nice stock and even Aero has stripped lowers regularly. You can find this stuff if you know where to look. Actually, kinda salty today, because I got delayed trying to pick up my new Aero lower. Never happened before. Was about to grab that shit and just walk out with it. I paid for it already, not sure what the hold up is but in 3 days I better have my shit.

    • Mobs are one if the cases where .22 might be a decent defensive round. You’re not worried about stopping an individual as quickly as possible, and the attackers aren’t too determined. You’re trying to convince a whole lot of people to go somewhere else. Firing lots of rounds makes them worry more about being next than how much damage it does. Of course, firing a lot of bigger rounds has more impressive results.

      • Lack of recoil means you can put a *lot* of .22 lr on target very precisely, very quickly at mob-repelling and home-defense distances. Even if it’s technically survivable, taking one of those to the dome is going to put somebody down and totally remove their will to riot.

        The .22 rifles in my safe are very much part of the defense plan.

  11. Plenty of ammo, some body armor and training wouldn’t hurt either. Cheap NV would be good. Be a rooftop Korean.

      • Lawn jockey full of tannerite. Crowd gets pissed and grabs it…
        Then in the chaos, someone sees a fire extinguisher, but it too it’s full of tannerite…

  12. Pretty happy I had an AR after the invasion of Black Looters Murder on May 31. My local 5-O did virtually NOTHING to curb the scum. I had 8 30 round magazines filled with 62grain greentip goodness. Ban ’em all you want. I won’t turn in chit…

  13. If you want an AR go for it. But don’t be a tactitard who thinks every one should choose an AR over anything else. Tactitards with their blind worship of black Tupperware and “You can tell it’s made by Mattel” are just as bad as any Fudd.

    • While Fanboys can be annoying, equating them with people who would see your rights dissolved isn’t accurate.

  14. My feelings about the weapons platform aside: why does every defensive rifle have to be an AR? (Rather have an AK) Why not any civilian legal semi-auto version of a full auto military rifle. After all, that’s what they are. Not Modern Sporting Rifles. Would you call a 60+ year old car, television, phone, etc. modern? There are lots of them out there on the used market, and yeah, they may be expensive, but for many they are a preferred option. Nothing wrong with an M-1 rifle or 03 if you have enough en bloc and stripper clips of loaded ammo. I do. Lots. Remember guys, what’s cover from a .223 is often only concealment from a battle rifle.

    • I got lucky about 25 years ago when a guy in the “squadron” made a bulk buy on SKS for $100. I didn’t even know what it was at the time, but it sounded ok. Turns out it was a 1953 Tula. It works good. I’ve never had a malfunction and it is accurate enough. Sights are a bit weak for my eyes, but I can hit what I need to within reasonable distances. Great thing about being a silhouette shooter and not an MOA shooter…close enough counts and the optics are cheaper!

    • Truck, my 7.62X39 rifle of choice is an SKS. It’s more accurate than an AK and at least as reliable. All you need is ammo in stripper clips and a chest pouch. I have both.

      • Gadsden Flag,

        You do realize that you can quickly swap magazines on SKS rifles, correct?

  15. Got a question when buying an AR lower, does the end user determine if it is for a rifle or pistol, or do I have to request it as a pistol?

    • If you’re only buying the lower, claim it as a pistol, if claiming must be done (I’m only familiar with the build-it-yourself 80% route). A pistol can legally be modified with a carbine upper, but a rifle cannot be modified with a pistol-length upper or it becomes an NFA SBR. So if you claim it as a pistol receiver and slap a pistol upper on it (and take a photo for CYA, if you feel you need to), then you can do whatever you want after that. Go back and forth between pistol and rifle to your heart’s content.

    • A new lower with out a receiver extension / buffer tube should transfer on a 4473 as ‘Other’ since it is not a rifle or pistol. The buyer can then build whatever they want. Obviously if you aren’t in a free State this could vary depending on State law.

    • In PA you have to tell the FFL if it is going to be a pistol or rifle before the sale. All pistols here go through the state police. Now long term dose anyone care? Not really, but if you get caught with a “pistol” AR and it did not go through the state well. . . . .

    • Bought 5 last summer here in MT. They were listed as pistols. FFL said the rule was that you had to list receivers as the most highly regulated firearm that you can make from them, and that meant handguns.

  16. Looks like my previous comment never got published… really wish TTAG was more friendly with VPNs, given that we should all be concerned with online security.

    If I could only own one gun in these situations it would be a pistol. Better for in the car (even than a SBRed AR) and allows one to choose how overt to be.

    But if I could choose two- and I can- the second would be an AR.

  17. I already have an AR-15. But I’m thinking about getting a couple of these heavy steel front end bumper grills. That I see on some pickup trucks. One for my truck and one for the wife’s van.
    I will use ramming speed to escape a crowd. Instead of shooting the kidnappers. At 120 pounds these female BLM protesters won’t damage the front end too much. But a 200+ pound male BLM protester might just do so damage. When I run over them to get away from the mob.

    • The problem isn’t the protesters. It’s the cars around you that are already stopped.
      When that happens, the vehicle is a coffin. Be prepared to bail, and fight.

        • Did yours come with a dozer blade on the front as an option??? Or a cow catcherl like on a locomotive???

          • Bought it at auction as a stripped stolen recovery, no engine trans drivetrain, built it my way with a built 6.7 liter Cummins diesel 600 plus hp and 1000 ft lbs torque at the tire, TCI 6 spd auto, Dana 60s on both ends… Built my own “brush guard” 1/4″ wall 6″ steel tubing “bumper” w/3″ tubing for the rest and 3/8″ plate winch mount.. No cow catcher (yet)….

      • to JW Taylor
        My wife is handicapped and can barely walk. She uses a wheelchair. If can’t drive away. There will be no one left standing around me. After I have pulled out my truck gun.

  18. Has “AR-15” now become like Glock, where “AR-15” is now a carch-all for semiautomatic rifles the way Glock has become for striker pistols?

  19. I’m surprised to still see used M&P 15s for as low as $900. I’d buy instantaneously if I needed one.

    • I got my “used” never fired M&P 15 Sport for under well under $400. Works great! Tricked out it’s way under 900 bucks. My favorite pawnshop had 4 from the same dude. Little did he know…shoulda’ got 2!

      • If I could find an AR under $400, I’d buy one for my daughter. She lives in Cleveland where it has been relatively calm (the fireworks nightly eventually tapered off), probably due to Covid, bu t if SHTF, it’ll get ugly there real quick.

        • Man, under 400 will be tough.. Everywhere I’ve checked is down to high end stuff.. Delta Team Tactical has complete uppers under $225, lower for $189 but you need $125 BCG and charging handle… You can save a few bucks buying a kit and building it yourself but looks like cheap ARs are on hold for awhile…

        • Check out Gunbroker(or ANYWHERE). There are NO $400 AR’s around. Unless you find a willing idiot. My LGS had a few in the 700-1200 range that. Sold immediately. You’re deranged if you think you can time travel😏

        • Yup, I looked around on a variety of sites. Fond a few a touch over $600, but most were over a grand.

        • Ky gun co had some SW sports in stock $699, that’s the best I’ve seen recently. I just took in a DPMS on trade 2 weeks ago with no forward assist and worn gas rings I valued at $400 though I told him $500 and just kept my price firm $100 more than I wanted.

          * I like forward assists on my rifles so I can ease the bolt in slowly and quietly when the situation warrants it. If you like making noise To alert everyone and everything of your presence by re racking and letting the spring slam the bolt, that’s cool. Angle grind that b off your receiver and Jb weld right over it.
          Just don’t give me a hard time over the way I do things because it’s MY rifle, not yours.

  20. as red states get redder and purple states red look for constitutional carry to become the rule not the exception in the aftermath of all this
    at least 50 percent or 25 states in the next few years

  21. Although I don’t have an AR,my AK will definitely be an attitude adjuster against a mob and if that don’t work my 308 semi auto with 20rd magazines will keep them at a distance.

  22. You don’t need an AR-15 as your primary or only weapon for home defense. Most people live in urban or suburban environments with the opportunity for collateral damage everywhere. What you need is a device which uses ammunition tailored the situation. Black Aces Tactical FD-12 semi-auto 12ga, magazine feed bullpup shotgun is more effective in area suppression that a 9mm MP5A3. Plus you can tailor your response to non-lethal treat of ‘force’. Some states allows you to stand your ground and brandish your device of ‘force’ as long as you don’t threaten ‘deadly force’.

    AR’s are not very good with rubber bullets etc. Plus being magazine fed you can easily transitin form non-lethal to lethal as the threat situation evolves. #4 LE Buckshot works well in areas where you have friendly neighbors to be concerned about. Frangible rounds inside the house. Shotgun flexibility wins. If you are in rural area it still works with 000 buck over 100 yards. This is a one and done option for non-rural folks. You can maneuver with it because it is only 28″ long. Targeting is simple with laser designators day or night with NVGs

    A CCW legal 300 BO AR pistol is your mobile choice. Yes you can have a backup handgun. But the AR pistol can be converted to a sniper rifle by change the upper to the new 6mm ARC. These combinations are the best over all minimalist options for getting it done with minimal expense and equipment.

    • Don’t tell me what I need. You rock your gun and I’ll rock mine ok? Rubber bullets…lol.

    • “…Black Aces Tactical FD-12 semi-auto 12ga…”

      I have heard that 12ga bullpups recoil is harsh…How is this one?

      TTAG needs a bullpup review!

  23. I disagree with most of you. AR-15s are bad, scary, dangerous weapons of war. You should get rid of them to ensure they don’t sneak out at night and hurt some children. To help ensure the safety of your communities, I will be generous and give you $150 for every AR-15 you have. I will lock them away is a safe place. Any takers?

  24. ARs are great. Really, just fun and great.
    But, ever seen what double ought does to a face at 5 feet? Changes minds…

      • I’ve seen what 12 ga 3 in. #4’s Buck did to a bears face. Not pretty didn’t survive. So I can at least machine what OO would do.

        • Makes sense for me. Modified shotgun is my #1 choice.
          3 in. Mossberg 590A1 (8+1) with an OPSol and MAGPUL mods is where I want to go. An AR for me would be for mid-to long range DMR use.

        • I prefer a shotgun for the country too. If something is out of range of 00 buck then it’s not a threat I need to deal with unless it’s shooting at me.

          Keep the nice stuff hidden or in the safe. burglars can have the $190 maverick 88 I keep in the bedroom. Stolen shotguns with extended 7+1 magazine tubes that match barrel length are not getting sawn down and used in many crimes.

        • I prefer one for the home too. For all the ravings of the salesman above trying to hawk a bullpup scatter gun, I have one myself for indoors. Hard to beat all that close quarter firepower in a nice 30.5″ package.

          Nearly fits through a standard door frame w/ me behind it, sideways. Makes for fast engagement pulling that round the robin on the hall corner.

      • Ahahahah@!!! I needed that this morning. Thanks.

        – coffee and keyboard still in tact.

    • jwt, yes I’ve seen what buckshot wounds at five feet. Impressive. I’ve seen what it does at 25 yards. Not so much. Seen rifle fire at both. Both equally impressive. Rifle, rifle rifle.

      • Not my experience at all. At close range, under 25 yards, the shotgun is far more impressive in terms of raw tissue damage.

        • To be clear, for general duty/combat, I’d take an AR over a shotgun any day, purely because of its ease of use and flexibility. But up close, round for round, the shotty can’t be beat.

    • jwtaylor,

      … ever seen what double ought does to a face at 5 feet?

      What face?

      For that matter, what head (after taking #00 buckshot at five feet)?

  25. The problem is all these new gun owners are as anti-gun as they always were. They have theirs and they don’t give a shit about anyone but themselves. Most of were and still are of the opinion that all gun should be banned all guns should be confiscated and all gun owners should be killed. They are still of the opinion the only good gun owner is a dead gun owner. Even though they now are a gun owner. THEY should be allowed and trusted with a firearm but WE Should still have our guns confiscated by force if we oppose we should be killed. That the deployment of nuclear weapons in the deliberate effort to kill and exterminate every gun owner and every person that opposes killing every gun owner is not only morally justified but necessary.

    They will all vote for Biden. They all still support banning guns. They will be happy when guns are banned. They will willingly give up their guns and they will WANT gun owners to have there guns taken by force and will be HAPPY as we are killed. WHEN the democrats make gun ownership illegal and mandate the confiscation o of every single solitary privately held firearm it will bring them glee. WHEN The Democrats passed legislation banning not just gun ownership but mandating the extermination of every single solitary United States citizen that possess a firearm as well as the extermination of literally every single United States citizen that opposes the extermination of literally every United States citizen that owns a firearm up to and including the complete and total extermination of the entire United States population that opposes them. Even if that includes the literal nuclear carpet bombing of United States citizens on United States soil by the United States government. The same people buying guns now that hate us and want us killed will be Masturbating to the thought of it. To them the extermination of 300 million United States essence is needed and necessary in order to remove all guns from society. It will be a safer place. A utopia. Because that is how these people think.

    They hate us and want is dead. The fact that they own a gun now does not and Will not stop them from wanting the ban of all gun ownership any extermination of literally every single solitary United States citizen that owns a gun.

  26. I’m not actually prejudiced against AR-15s. Everyone should own one. I actually own an AR-15 built by Colt almost three decades ago. I bought ARs for both of my sons. I forgot to buy an AR for my daughter although I did give her a Ruger Mini-14, stainless steel with folding stock. (My daughter looks just like the Terminatrix in T3, Rise of the machines who was kicking Arnold Schwarzenegger’s ass. Similar disposition. I have actually watched her pick a guy up by the scruff of the neck and genitals to shove him through a wall. She does a great impersonation of Colonel Hannibal Smith, complete with cigar.)

    I am impressed with all of the accessories that are available for the AR-15 and variants. I’ve even become less contemptuous of the 300 Blackout which duplicates the external and terminal ballistics of the M1 carbine. After spending the Fourth of July shooting someone else’s short barrel AR-15 with silencer at targets floating in my pond from 250 yards, I understand the appeal. The CZ Scorpion was also impressive and a shitload of fun.

    I don’t recommend the AR-15 as a survival gun. The direct blowback mechanism is not as reliable after being stored long term with little maintainance. I prefer a more robust, gas piston design such as the HK-91 or 93, M-14 or a Tavor. My wife’s FN PS-90 housecleaning gun is also a great choice. She keeps it next to her AKS chambered in .223.

    Of course my first recommendation to a novice who wants a home defense gun is a Stainless steel Ruger Mini-14. I keep one hidden in my pickup where it shoots just fine after bouncing around on my gravel roads and off road. Works great on coyotes and other varmints. (I once experienced an epiphany while standing in the middle of my half mile long driveway with the slide locked back in my Smith and Wesson CS-45. If you stop to hunt coyotes while taking your children to school, you might be a redneck)

    All of this being said, if you live in an urban environment when the shit hits the fan, there is nothing better than a 12 gauge shotgun. Load it up with #4 buckshot to unleash 27, .25 caliber projectiles per round. Aim for the pavement about 2/3s of the distance between you and the angry mob of Biden supporters. The ricochet will widen the pattern to conform to the scattergun reputation. Alternatively; get a rifles barrel or choke tube. For the really persistent rioters, slugs work best. You can get two or three rioters per round if the mob is tightly packed.

    Remember; General Paul Tibbets kept a 12 gauge shotgun in his home for self defense. If a scattergun is good enough for the man who had no regrets or remorse about killing 50,000 people at Hiroshima (don’t feed me the BS about vaporizing people or 100,000 dead), it is good enough for anyone.

  27. Looking at political realities I would be looking at single stack pistold right now. No point in spending money on double stacks pistols and AR/AK that you won’t be able to use.

    I believe you can mod Winchester Model 70s to take stripper clips seeing that they are Mauser Pattern rifles. Ruger Americans and Browning X-bolts are detachable magazine fed as well. Somebody should start a line of ’03s as well.

    • No point in spending money on double stacks pistols and AR/AK that you won’t be able to use.

      ???? So I guess I should throw out 90% of my firearms and 15,000 rounds of ammo?

      • I traded out my Para Ord .45 for a single stack Kimber Custom back in 1996. Less capacity but fits better in my hand and less heavy. Besides, you can always buy extra mags.
        The same goes for my SIG P239 …. because not everyone wants a Wonder 9 or is lucky enough to live in a red 2A state so you work with what you have.
        Options and choices, they’re everywhere. You just need to have an open mind.

        • And your point is? I’m happy with my guns, that’s why I bought them, I don’t need/want to sell or trade my guns, my question in my most basic smartass was WHY will I NOT be able to use my ARs/AKs or my double stack handguns although my main EDCs ARE single stacks….. That’s what is so great about this country.. The available variety is almost endless and every man and woman is free to choose whatever makes THEM tingle (that they can afford of course)…. I DO live in a RED 2A State, at least for now…

      • It seems you cannot connect one article to another. If Biden is elected along with Democrat majorities in Congress we are going to get gun control good and hard. You are going to have to lose the banned guns in a tragic boating accident so I would not recommend spending any more money on guns you only get to admire in your basement with windows blacked out.

        .223 works just fine out .223 bolt gun and your pistol ammunition doesn’t require double stack magazines. Those 1911s are looking real good right now.

        • I had no problem connecting articles.. YOU already have Biden in the White House I disagree and while I appreciate your concern for my welfare and my finances I feel I need to explain to you that “I don’t give a flying fuck” who is in charge or what stupid bullshit laws they try to Impose on me, I’ve been an outlaw before and it will absolutely NOT bother me to go there again, hell half the shit I do on a daily basis is illegal somewhere, but if you have to spend half your time wondering if it’s legal or hypothesizing on “what ifs?” it’s not worth doing, life’s too short, so I’ll continue to buy what I want and you do whatever you think you need to do.. Cool?

        • Oh your hero Trump will also ban semi autos in his next term if he has one. If it be by accident or design it has already been put in motion.

          Again if you are unwilling to use your guns when appropriate why do you even own them again?

        • I will happy to sell you my contraband if the worst case happens. It will be a win-win-win. I will get more cash then government will give, you will expand your arsenal and when the feds bust you they will have a big score. At least 2 out of three of us will be happy in the long run. /Sarc.

          I always appreciate someone who is willing to take heat so I get ignored.

  28. The ranch rifles were good deals but are now pricedntoo high. They are excluded from “assault rifle” designation in many areas and that seems to of increased demand and price. I might be wrong about the cost of making these guns but the tooling and design is long paid for.
    If these guns were 400 bucks they would sell twice as many but even at that price you need to spend half as much again on improvements it needs and then there are those expensive mags.

    • One thing about the Ruger Mini-14 and Ranch rifles series, the complaints of accuracy and group size often attributed to these guns. I have not owned one but have shot a friend’s Mini-14 a number of times. I was pleased we put out clays and aluminum cans out to 100 yards. Could easily eat them shot after shot with iron sights. This with a factory standard gun, no aftermarket work on it, just ball ammo.

      So I’d like one in the collection but with two AR’s and a PC Carbine already I can’t really justify the expense.

      • The early guns were notorious for inaccuracy. The new guns are, from what I’ve read, reasonably accurate.

        • Avoid the ‘Series 180’ min-14s

          No parts to be had and Ruger will not support, parts or otherwise. I was lucky enough to trade mine to a collector who just wanted it. I really liked that little rifle. If I would have had spare money in late 80s/early 90s I could have picked up a factory folding stock mini-30 for around $350 IIRC. Now I have 7.62 in AR format..still mini-30s are nice.

  29. I have decided to buy two battle guns with the recent mob violence. I am rural so I can see a rooster tail heading down my road miles away. All my fields of fire I have also put my range finder on and mapped out all the distances on paper and used low profile rock piles for the accurate acquisition of desired targets. Highly likely will not be needed. The few neighbors I have will get the first shots and will leave me no targets.

  30. For Silentbrick: I have an M1 and use Greek HXP surplus ammo (Greek Army).
    Went shooting with a friend who had never shot the M1. Used an Iron target about 1 foot in diameter. Bullets bounced off the target with nary a scratch.

    He had never shot a rifle before and his aim caused dust to kick up at the target, 100 yards away. When we went downrange, we saw he had hit the 1/4 inch thick steel stand. The bullets went right through it. I’d bet they would go through a standard bullet proof vest but not one with steel or ceramic plates. Either way it’s going to hurt.

  31. I am unconcerned about the great mass of protesters. They are peaceful, though annoying as fuckall. The problem is the extreme elements that seek to draw a crowd into a mob, to spin up the mob and make violence happen. There are bad actors on both ends of this, individuals and groups both on the protest side and the law enforcement side. It is when extremists from either side get going that what was merely an bothersome and inconvenient pain in the mass protest turns into a riot.

    A lot of reporters from all media outlets have talked about this. They’ve witnessed how a peaceful protest gets manipulated after dark by dedicated instigators. They start seeing small numbers of these infiltrating the crowds, equipped to do battle with police. Likewise we see it on the official side, such as documented escalations on masses of people who had not engaged in any sort of violence up to that point that day.

    What would work is some of what was tried in Fergusion late in the unpleasantness. Using spotters at elevated points to spot instigators by their actions, radio directions to intervention teams of officers. These teams move in rapidly, physically grabbing and moving the instigator out of view and performing a lawful, Mirandized arrest. Doing this proved effective at halting and preventing the escalations seen in the late night hours. It was a more intelligent version that what seems to be coming out of the Federal forces in Portland, which so far has not mentioned the observed activities those seized, briefly held and released without complete booking action or charges brought.

    Finally, I do believe there is amply ingredients at play for a sudden eruption of gun play between opposing groups or any groups, even similar groups in the form of “Friendly Fire”. All it takes is a split second misread of what is going on and people on the same side or different sides could be shooting at each other, with a domino effect on other armed persons.

    Not a Civil War, a stupid ass screw up by people who should have stayed how that night.

    An organized broad uprising on a national scale I do not believe is in the cards. If it did happenI would physically oppose it if it threatened my area, and showed no signs of official authority stamping it out quickly.

    • There are no peaceful protestors. Like those in Ferguson, they are just providing cover for Antifa. Some may not be witting but that is what they are there for.

      If Black Lives really mattered to them they would protesting Blackmon black on black violence in the inner cities.

      • That’s just partisan talking points made up from nonsense and bald faced lies. There is always a mix and always a progression from peaceful beginnings to violent endings. Routinely the violence comes with sunset. Routinely the violence comes with hard cases acting to a plan and a schedule. This has been the way for a long time, long before Ferguson.

        If you honestly watch video in sequence in in context, you see it happening. Hours of “Kum By Ya” and “We shall overcome”, regular “Everybody Love Everybody” stuff, followed by the assholes going to work, trying to start something, goading police to attack.

        The techniques involved in creating a riot are well known, there’s no secret to it. The first thing you need is a big crowd of people with no violent intent, a bunch of police to keep the peace, and some skilled instigators to spin it up and light the fires.

  32. Shows a picture of 2 armed democrats who are the ones telling me “I don’t need” while they have theirs.

  33. AR for a riot? Might be good backup for snipers butt, so is a mini 30. i would not want to be without sidearms and 12 g shotguns with the varity of rounds that may have sunk in a boating accident sometimes after Aug 1st of any given year….rubber rounds, fireball rounds, little bb’s, large up to 000 bags of balls…. rifle? Meh…

  34. Don’t forget – citizens have been dragged from their cars BY POLICE.
    Breonna Taylor was shot in her bed BY POLICE.
    Duncan Lemp was murdered in his home while sleeping BY POLICE.

    An AR15 isn’t just useful against other citizens. It’s handy against tyrants as well.

  35. This article is written to focus around one firearm as if it is the end all be all for all situations
    It is not.

    What the article should of said is,
    “Violence, Rioting and Looting Are Why You Need to train, and train hard, for various situations with various firearms.”

    Everything from making a wrong turn in your car into a hostile mob, and how to use you handgun effectively from inside a car, to using a lever action .44mag rifle in a hostile situation (because you were going into town to TSC, and the lever gun was what was in the back).
    We are rarely afforded the foresight to be armed with the perfect set up for a particular situation.

    Murphy is always lurking.

  36. Man only has four “needs:” air, water, food and shelter. Everything else is a “want,” not a need. You don’t “need” that 4-bedroom split-level in the ‘burbs, you don’t “need” that S-Class Merc, and you don’t “need” those Air Jordans. You just want them. But acknowledging that they are wants and not needs does not diminish their importance because it’s precisely our “wants” that elevate our lifestyle above that of a contestant on “Naked and Afraid.”

    So if you think your wants are valid but mine aren’t, you have my permission to go pound sand. And I happen to find that having lots and lots of AR-15s and stacks and stacks of 30-round magazines is elemental to the preservation and enhancement of my — as Thomas Jefferson put it — life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

  37. Assuming I’m not hit first, if I need an AR anything, I’ll take it off a body. Otherwise my 12 ga pump will do.

  38. I finally broke down and got an AR last month. A Bushmaster Patrol Carbine. It was maybe 30% BLM riots, 30% Biden with his anti-gun agenda and 40% because I love guns and have been debating getting one. I belong to a pistol range and don’t shoot rifles much (although I have a few Old School ones)

    Shot over 100 rounds from it last week, fish in a barrel at 25 yards. No FTF of any kind.

    A few Magpul mags, a few hundred rounds of ammo- I should be OK.

  39. Ken and Karen’s AR did not save them, It got them a world of shit. Their tactics were shit, he could have“ justifiably” been killed by a protester. Your AR won’t save you…But it may help if you can use any tact at all

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