Few of us will ever oil an unblued, un-phosphated gun and leave it out in the rain for several days. YouTuber Patriot36 simulated this foolishness by treating a freshly-cleaned brake rotor with three popular anti-corrosion treatments; FrogLube, M-Pro 7 and RAND CLP. After watching this test, I think I’ll be switching brands. You?
frog lube rocks. only down side is that you have to heat with a hair dryer and apply. but once applied it lasts VERY long. I prefer the paste over the liquid form tho
Hair dryer? Why not just apply it and shoot the heck out of your gun? I don’t get their obsession with trying to get people to bake the stuff onto their gun.
I wrap the parts i’m frog lubing in a small dish towel, wrap that in an electrically heated pad for y our back and then wrap that in a bath towel and have a beer while it sits there. Then I apply the frog lube and either let it cool or wrap it up again for a few minutes before letting it cool.
Manufacturer directions state that for best results to strip all the oils off the gun, get it hot, then apply the FL and let it sit before wipe down. After that you can just scrub it on and wipe it off. You don’t have to do it that way, but that is what they suggest. Also, it doesn’t seem to take care of corrosive primer salts, so my Mosin doesn’t get treated with FL.
According to the froglube tech people, it does stand up to corrosive primers. Only you neutralize with the froglube solvent. Then clean with the froglube clp as directed. I use it on my Type 53 and have had no problems.
Could have just sprayed on the brake cleaner, stand back and throw a match. Brake cleaner like CRC burns very clean. An extra quick wipe, and on with test.
I prefer the paste too. I throw it in the microwave for 30sec to get it a little liquidy and then scrub away.
A warning though test it first before depending your life on this stuff it makes my PS90 jam, and my XD45 and XDm45 3.8 have a stuck striker. Had to use acetone to clean it out.
I’m skeptical about Frog Lube but, assuming this test is legit, I’m pretty impressed by the results.
I’m skeptical too! Obviously a paid infomercial from FrogLube. They must think we are all gullible to believe these “amazing” results. Michael, keep shining the light on these fraudsters and hucksters. My money is on the Rand just like you. Shame on TTAG to submit advertising as content!
Obvious troll is obvious.
It’s good to be skeptical of any newer product that is hyped as much as FrogLube is.
Dyspeptic Gunsmith wrote a bit about it in the comments of the following blog post:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/11/robert-farago/on-oils-for-guns/
Some lubrication points in guns will have issues of dirt and dust intrusion or carbon fouling from burnt powder. These are all issues addressed by industrial and automotive lubricant engineers. Auto engine oils use detergents to float carbon residues into the oil stream to have them filtered out by the oil filter, transmissions and geartrains have to deal with shear forces far in excess of what guns can produce. I use the above mixture because I go through a lot of it in semi-auto applications, and I’m not about to pay absurdly high prices for lubricants where I’m not shown actual lubrication testing per ASTM or ASME standards – and that describes most “miracle gun lubes.” An example: FrogLube’s MSDS doesn’t even give the most simple characteristics of the product in the MSDS:
http://www.froglube.com/docs/FROGLUBE%20MSDS%203_8_12.pdf
Still stand by that today. Re-checked the MSDS on file for FL and am not seeing anything new. It’s still a form without any real information on it.
I conducted similar tests. I have a fireplace in my backyard and the metal rusts where it goes around the stack stone. It’s weird. So I tried Break-free, Froglube, Spartan Oil, Sentry Solutions Smooth-Kote, and Fireclean. I can attest to the fact that Froglube works!. Break-free did nothing to help after it rained. Spartan did a little better then break-free, Smooth-Kote was really good but it makes everything black. Fireclean did almost as good as Froglube. I think Froglube works so well because it’s a wax. I suspect that if I used butchers wax I would get good results too. If you’re curious to what finally solved my rusting problems it was Cerakote Clear.
This is why I use Froglube.
Did TTAG experiment with a diefferent layout briefly today?
I’ve been using Froglube for almost two years now. I love the stuff. It isn’t snake oil, it’s Froglube.
Pleasantly surprised by the Frog Lube result.
I hate the smell, though.
For short term storage, I prefer Rem Oil or Break Free CLP.
For *LONG* term storage I am even more confident about Frog Lube, however, my observation is that it tends to behave like cosmoline.
I did a year long test in which I doused a firearm (action and bore and all surfaces and moving parts) in Frog Lube and sealed inside a bag-in-a-bag-in-a-bag system using zip ties. I put that inside another sealed bag with a canister of desiccant. A year later, the product on the firearm was far more tacky and sticky than the stuff in my bottle. The Frog Lube had taken on the consistency of soft Vaseline. I’m sure that given enough time, cleaning a gun stored in this manner would be like cleaning a Mosin that sat in cosmoline for a similar amount of time…
I have a bunch of junk/parts guns sitting in a metal locker 2 miles from the beach with nothing more than a coat of Break Free from an aerosol can and a quick swipe of a patch thru the bore along with a couple tubs of dessicant that haven’t shown any significant rust in years. I would seriously hope that “dousing a firearm (action and bore and all surfaces and moving parts) in Frog Lube and sealed inside a bag-in-a-bag-in-a-bag system using zip ties and putting that inside another sealed bag with a canister of desiccant” would work for a year!
Nailed it. I talked to my favorite LGS gunsmith awhile back who has a museum quality lever action hanging in his shop that sparkles like a new Corvette. Why? Because he uses wax, not oil, for protection. Cosmoline is a wax with a low melting point. Standard automotive carnauba wax acts similarly but dries out nicely and leaves a high luster. My gunsmith has been using automotive wax on safe queens for decades.
In short, frog lube contains wax. I’m sure it works exceptionally well but it’s nothing new. you’re waxing the gun.
I suspect it means that over time the more volatile solvents in the product, evaporate. Thus leaving behind the more solids portion of the material. Someone called Froglube a wax. I had heard it was made from plant esters. Of which some can be more waxy than others. But there has been a lot of chemistry developed with plant esters.
There was once a little outfit in Glendale CA called Francisco Laboratories that had various motor racing products. I was introduced to them because I kept breaking con rods in my 2-stroke Greeves motocross bike. They had a 2-stroke oil product named Supercharged that was plant esters, special de-gummed castor oil and a nitro additive. I never broke another rod after switching to their product (in spite of the nitro). I liked it so well I used their special motor oil in my old Alpina equipped BMW 2002. It literally cleaned the dark discoloration inside the valve cover to shiny aluminum over a few months. They also made some great racing gasolines named Firemist and Moon gas. I wish they were still around. Point is, sometimes one guy discovers something new or unique. Froglube might be one of them.
I love Froglube. Yes, there are many opther lube options, but Froglube has plenty going for it…non-toxic and the company is run by USN Capt. Larry Lasky, whom I had the pleasure of working for early in my USN days…one of the best officers I ever served under.
I was pretty impressed by the FrogLube in this video, especially by how the MPro7 flipped 180 degrees overnight when it got partially washed off by rain.
However, FrogLube definitely doesn’t seem to be the best for long-term storage, what with the congealing factor it seems to have. For an everyday use gun, it’s probably great, but how often does your gun have to stand up to extended wet weather like in this test? And does that frequency outweigh the potential hassles of the smell it gets long-term, as well as the thickening?
For me, the search goes on.
Also, note this review of Rand CLP that Nick posted just a couple weeks ago: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/12/foghorn/gear-review-rand-clp/
I live in Arizona. I’ve seen numerous tests of Frog Lube done in places that it rains frequently, snows, heck even has dew on the ground in the morning and is generally not that hot during summer. Where I am during the greater summer months, it regularly reaches temps around 120 or greater and objects left out in the sun can reach multiples of that temperature. My question is, how will it hold up during an Arizona summer?
probably fine since there is zero humidity.
i dip everything in cosmoline when i’m done shooting it.
What good is the test when it isn’t running Frog Lube against the best corrosion-prevention products on the market? Eezox comes to mind.
Neither Frog Lube nor Eezoz is a good friction- or impact-parts protectant. There are many good oils and greases. I use Lubriplate FMO 350AW oil and Lubriplate SFL-0 grease as appropriate. I’m sure some other choices are as good.
The recommended grease on Garands and M1A’s/M14’s is Lubriplate 103 or 103A rifle grease.
Lubriplate 105 is a straight white lithium grease that’s fine for many sliding/rotating applications in guns.
Minty fresh Frog Lube. My LionHeart Industries LH9 came pre-treated with the stuff and it runs great – even with daily carry and the wet weather the Pacific NW is known for. I’m not going to be leaving my pistol outside on huge rain anytime soon, but it’s good to see a test showing it’s effective against corrosion.
G: How do you like your Lionheart? As you know. Nick and I had completely different reviews of this pistol. I think its the best deal out there for a high quality pistol.
Where can it be acquired at a deal?
I don’t know if it’s kosher to talk pricing or if it would be construed as advertising but I will say that some dealers including myself sell them for around $550-569 including shipping. They can certainly be had at competitive prices compared to other alloy frame hammer guns e.g. Beretta 92 and Sigs.
Lionheart is very pleasant to work with as a dealer, so if you have a good relationship with a local FFL and serious interest in the pistol you can always see if they’ll contact Lionheart directly and order you one!
I had similar results boiling high carbon parts in Wd-40.
The heat opens the pores up and allows the protectant to penetrate better.
I do like this test. Especially here where we get about 3-4 feet of rain a year.
I’ll use anything to beat rust. I used one of the electric wands in my safe out in the shop. It seemed to attract moisture, then rust.
So far, Wd-40 seems to hold up well here.
I love Frog Lube and use it on all my guns and knives
I’ve cleaned my guns with used auto engine oil when I’ve had to. Nothing replaces regular maintainance and cleaning. Nothing. Frog lube all you want, but it’s just a product, not the holy grail of firearms lube.
Agreed.
In the mild climate of CA clp works just fine and is both a cleaner and lube. Less hassle that way. I love shooting, hate cleaning.
I use Birchwood Casey’s gun grease. Semisolid lubricants are the way to go. I like a greasy oily gun. I also like to clean and lube them after every firing. I grease pack the bores of those in storage that I don’t fire often. I know my guns will be in excellent condition when I pass them on to my children.
Froglube does seem interesting. When I run out of grease – I may check it out.
I used the FL paste exclusively on one of my semi-autos since I bought it and have been surprised how well it works. After it had been fully “seasoned” I found it easy to clean all the fouling that builds up after a shooting session with just a rag or Q-tip for everything except the barrel, which I just run a clean mop through. It seems to repel dust, too…or at least doesn’t let it adhere. Also, I have a rather expensive 1095 carbon steel short sword that I use the FL paste on in place of oil to protect it, it basically acts like Renaissance Wax in that regard and is good on leather for the same reason I’m assuming. I was skeptical at first, but the stuff works and I like being able to put it wherever with by my bare fingers…body heat pretty much lets it penetrate easier. Then just wipe everything down with cotton or microfiber. I’ve never used the liquid or solvent, though…the paste is enough for me. I like my steel to smell minty fresh.
Cylinder & slide dunk-kit for cleaning, followed by Weapon Shield for lube.
The various guns in our collection seem to like it so far…
The oil industry is filled with smooth talkers, charlatans, and cheats. I don’t know why a brake disc left in the weather is a good comparison for how I treat my firearms. I am less likely to trust frog lube after this silly demonstration.
You know, the man who made this video has made quite a few others too. Not all of them include Froglube. Watch his other video tests. He is not a charlatan trying to sell you Froglube.
I use M pro 7. Weighing the likelihood of leaving my shit out in the rain, i’m sticking with it.
Translation: GGRRRRMMPPH!
I don’t think there’s a single firearm I own that wouldn’t be just fine with a dab of warm oil off of my truck’s dipstick.
I normally lube my guns with a light dab of diesel engine oil. It has great film adhesion and stays there for a long time, longer than CLP ever does.
A lot of guys dumped CLP over in Afghanistan because the shit just cakes up with dust and dirt. Motor oil does a better job of suspending particles in the solution, and will keep on going in worse conditions where CLP falls off.
Can’t say anything about FL or M-7, I have experience with neither.
I doubt I’ll ever buy any of these fancy gun lubes.
What is this thing you people call “rain?” (says the guy from New Mexico…)
Or you could just get a gun with a coating that resists rust.
Im not one to leave my guns out in the great outdoors any longer then I am with it.
Ive used any oil laying around for the last 30 years.
I have no rust issues on any of my guns what so ever.
So I think Ill continue to save my money and just stick with the oils Ive long lost the labels of and synthetic bearing grease,
Clean, wipe it down, slather some grease in the safe it goes.
Time to fire wipe it down with a clean cloth add some more grease on the rails and oil up other friction points and off I go to the range.
Rinse and repeat……….
On the exterior of my guns I use a Kleenbore silicon gun and reel cloth, something my brother turned me on to. I have never had any exterior rust, even on the carbon steel sword hanging on my wall or the blued barrel black powder pistols, or the two long guns stored in the garage. Moving parts get Hoppe’s No.9 lubricating oil, just because that is what I started with, and I’ve never felt compelled to try something else.
So for dummies like me, is there a reason to not use graphite lube?
Depends on the application. For sliding surfaces with little pressure, graphite can work just fine. Moly disulphide powder might work better.
For applications where you have very high contact pressures, graphite probably isn’t what you want.
Though it may protect a firearm against rust (which is awesome), it has been my experience that a lubricant, it is not. I got the FrogLube paste crap, warmed up my BCG out of my AR after using brake cleaner to clean it, and applied as the directions suggested. I reassembled the BCG and installed it back into my upper. A few days later, I took it out shooting. The action felt smooth, but did not cycle consistently! Every other round was a jam of some type or another. This AR has NEVER jammed before!!
So I stripped off the FrogLube, apologized to my bottle of Gunzilla as I reapplied it, and went back outside. The firearm did not hiccup in the slightest.
If a rust preventative is what you are after, then maybe FrogLube. If lubrication is more important, then something else. CLP works great, but you gotta clean your firearms inside and out on a regular basis, even if you dont shoot them.
This is an example of why I say that rust inhibitors and lubricants perform overlapping jobs, but they’re not jobs that can be wholly fulfilled by the same product. There’s issues in each product space that are counter-productive to the other requirement.
I took the AR I use for 3-gun down to the pins & springs, ran everything through an ultrasonic cleaner, applied Froglube paste per the instructions, wiped off the excess, and re-assembled. Have about 1,000 rounds through it now with narry a hicup. Only maintenance I’ve done was at 500 rounds where I field stripped it, wiped all the internals down with a Froglube wipe, and re-assembled. The tail of the bolt was the only thing I had to do more than wipe to get clean. I still clean the bore with MPro7 & Wipeout though.
Sounds like you may not have wiped the excess lube off after it dried. A little Froglube goes a long way in my experience. You certainly don’t have to apply the same amount as other petro-based lubes.
FL is fine when the temp is somewhat normal, but just like any wax it hardens up when used under 32 deg. F. I was running it in an AR around 5-7 deg. F and the damn thing kept short stroking, even though the rifle is 100% in the 40+ deg. F range. I could not get enough rounds through it fast enough to heat it up sufficiently for it to run right. You might as well buy a quart of 5W-30 Mobil-1 for $4 and have enough rifle & pistol lubrication for a lifetime…
That is why they make Froglube CLP LIQUID…
Wonder how FL handles black powder.
My 5 dollar bucket of lithium soap grease from Walmart would own all these lubes in these types of tests.
Not only that, but it’s a superior gun lube also.
Yea. I use high temp auto grease, p blaster and fluid film. no rust issues, things are slippery, cheap per unit volume, and works for me. Sometimes I kimda wonder about “better” solutions to problems that were solved a long time ago. I’m sure the fl works well, but how much better than “not an issue” is really needed? With all the lubes coming out over the last decade, it seems more like a bragging or status thing.
It’s money making thing.
Froglube and the rest of them are probably just repackaged industrial lubricants. Buy 20 gallons of the stuff for 75 bucks, buy some labelled bottles from China and then sell it for 2 bucks a ounce. A 3000% mark-up is nothing to sneeze at.
As I think I’ve stated on earlier threads about this or some other product, lubrication and rust prevention are two different requirements, often pulling in opposite directions. Some of the properties that make for superior lubes in certain applications make for mediocre rust prevention.
OK, let’s talk rust prevention. Want something cheap that works well for rust prevention, and it is safe to handle? Lanolin. As in “rub your gun all over a sheep.”
BTW, one of the reasons why I’m a stickler for what is on the MSDS and I get suspicious of large, empty holes in the MSDS is that I have to handle lots more of any of these products than the average gun owner. Occasional exposure to some nasty oil-based (or other) lubes, cleaners and corrosion inhibitors might be OK. When you’re getting the stuff on your skin, day after day after day… like, oh, a gunsmith would… it would be a pretty good idea to know exactly what you’re dealing with. If you’re handling some of these snake-oil products and you don’t know what is in them… things can fall off of a man, y’know?
Back to corrosion inhibitors. Lanolin is cheap, safe and (at least here) plentiful. This is the greasy stuff that is in a sheep’s fleece. It is washed out of the fleeces by the wool industry and sold as a product on its own. Thin it down with some mineral spirits, spray or coat it onto a gun, allow the mineral spirits to dry off. Now you have a nice, natural rust prevention layer.
I can find lanolin in raw form because I’m near wool processing here in Wyoming. Lots of you folks in cities probably can’t find raw lanolin, but you can find purified lanolin in dozens of health and beauty products. One example is nipple cream for lactating mothers. Another is some types of lip balm or skin creams. Maybe I should stock some nipple cream for gun owners who want a long-term rust inhibitor. That would be a hoot to explain why it’s on the shelf of a gunsmith’s shop.
Why doesn’t lanolin make a good lube? For the same reasons greases don’t necessarily make good lubes – when the temps go down, these long-chain greases or greasy waxes start to stiffen up, slowing down the sliding/rotating parts on firearms. If you want to experiment with something cheap (in quantity) that would perform as a lube and rust inhibitor? Try lanolin and beeswax together. Heat ’em up, get them to melt together, add some mineral oil to thin it down a bit. The nice thing about lanolin for rust prevention is that it is difficult to wash off. Letting it sit outside in the rain isn’t going to make lanolin wash off steel any more that it washes out of sheep. Lanolin, beeswax and sperm whale oil… now that could be a good gun-lube product to try making, if only we could get some sperm whale oil. Jojoba oil is a very similar product, from what I see on paper. Maybe that would be a good experiment.
The downside of lanolin is that your gun will smell like a sheep. Some people might like this, some don’t. Many city folks wouldn’t know what a sheep smelled like if I dropped a couple of ewes on them.
OK, so you want a little thinner lube, with rust prevention properties. This means you’re going back into the oil realm, but you want the oil to be “tacky” and not wash off your steel. There’s an oil for that, called “Way Oil” in the machining industry. An example of a “way oil” (used on sliding parts on lathes and mills – specifically the “ways” of these machines) is Mobile Vactra #2 or #4. These have tackifiers in them to make the oils stick to the metal and not just run off, as most thin machine oils will do.
One of the reasons why military guns are parkerized instead of blued is that parkerized finishes hold lots and lots of oil. You can get a parked finish positively fat with gun oil, motor oil, whatever oil you have, and the parked finish will hold onto the oil much more readily than a polished finish like a blued gun will. Vactra on a parked finish would probably hold up against rust for a long time.
Want long-term storage rust inhibitors? Quit goofing around and go with what is known to work: cosmoline.
http://www.cosmolinedirect.com/
I have used Cosmoline “Rust Veto 342” and “A2.” For long-term storage, my preference now is the 342 stuff. I’ve had some machine tools in an unheated storage area for over two years with the 342 product on them and on polished/scraped raw steel surfaces, not a lick of rust. The downside is that you have to use mineral spirits to cut through the cosmo layer to get it off, but if you’re seeking real indoor/outdoor/unheated condensing environment rust prevention, this stuff works.
BTW, folks: Stainless steel isn’t immune to corrosion, especially the 4xx series stainless steels typically used in guns. The steel is called “stain less” not “stain none.” Most gun stainless steels are 416, 410 or 420 stainless, followed by specialty stainlesses like 17-4PH or others. They can all be forced into corrosion under the right conditions. If you’re planning on long-term storage of a stainless gun in a hostile environment, use cosmo.
I concur, amigo. Nothing works better than the Cosmoline Rust-Veto 342. Been using it for years.
Yeah, next time I need to lube my brake rotors or decide to leave my firearms out in the rain, I’ll definitely consider froggy-goo. Until then, I’ll stick with what I’m using. Ain’t no magic bullets, ain’t no magic oil.
Is there a test anywhere on “Ed’s Red” ? I mix up a gallon at a time and dispense through a pressurized bottle.
Personally I use an oil that has a higher flashpoint, Lower temp rating, and is synthetically polarized in such a way that it clings to metal….. Mobil-1. I hear that Shell has a synthetic oil that is just as good, but I started with the Mobil first and still have enough to go about 30 years for what I have.
Lastly – because I use it in my vehicles too… if I ever get my gun wet, I just dry it off real well, pull out the dipstick on my truck, and wipe it on a clean rag (check the level and oil my gun at the same time).
Has anyone tried Brian Enos Slide Glide? Not a corrosion inhibitor but have heard glowing reviews about it, although they are all kind of dated.
Very interesting video. The conclusion that I draw from this video is that coating my brake rotors with a thick layer of peppermint smelling wax I could leave them out in the rain for a week with no rust. Sort of like dipping them in wax. Would I do that to my BCG? Um, no.
I would submit that if you applied Frog Lube on the moving and non moving parts of an AR with the same thickness and method as shown in this video it would turn the gun into a sticky club after a magazine or two of firing at any atmospheric temperature less than 40 deg F. Even above 40 deg F, if attempted my bet is that the trigger assembly would turn into a gooey non functioning mess after a mag or two especially if allowed to cool slightly. Get the gun down to zero deg F and my bet is that the gun wouldn’t run to begin with. The problem is that FL goes on a warmed gun as a thick liquid and goes waxy when cooled which seems thin and slippery to the eye and touch. Then, run a mag through the gun and FL liquifies and starts to flow thanks to gravity to cooler precision parts in the lower or into the magazine where it builds up and gets gooey. Ask me how I know.
BTW, the stuff works great on my muzzleloader. Once it has a nice layer, the carbon crud really does just wipe off. I learned all of this the hard way, BTW, and have recently gone back to Mobil 1 and Rem Oil where appropriate.
I like my froglube. Easy and doesn’t bother anyone when I clean my guns at the kitchen table. So far I’ve good luck and don’t see any reason to use anything else on my guns.
Since the brake rotors on my car are carbon fiber this video is of no use at all.
I know, right?
Since Froglube isn’t a petroleum based oil and is plant extract oils, claiming the “oil tycoon charlatan selling snake oil” seems funny. Since the oils are organic and not mineral based, they are subject to degradation over time. At any rate, this doesn’t take away the responsibility of proper maintenance of your weapon.
And the guy that had Froglube jam his XD and make the firing pins stick… Perhaps it was improper disassembly/reassembly of the internal components of the XD action. Springfield doesn’t recommend taking the action apart, and for good reason. The multi-stage safeties and the striker block are all pretty touchy to get back together right. At any rate, I’ve used it on my XD40 compact for years with no ill effects. And the spearmint smell is 100x better than hoppes #9. Just saying. The only time I ever ran into issues is when I took it apart because I thought I was a super gunsmith. Never worked right until I took it to an actual gunsmith. A few thousandths off here, and a few off there and the safety wouldn’t reliably clear the striker for proper operation.
In the end, use what you like. Just clean the thing, and follow the directions on your firearm, and your cleaner.
Well frog lube may protect against rust but that’s about it. When left in a gun it drips off and turns into a sticky mess. My dad had to break down half a dozen guns with it that were essentially dead because of this crap. Some would have hydro locked others would have been so restricted that the hammer would not have had enough force to cycle the weapons. I can only imagine what would have happened in the cold. I have never had issues with tw25b, slip2000 or just mobil 1. This stuff made me think a glock upper conversion was junk so I sold it. If I had used another lube it probably would have worked fine.
I can buy M Pro at WalMart not so with Frog lube
Hence it is MPro for me