atf airsoft guns can be converted to machine guns
courtesy pyramydair.com
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An oldie but a regulatory goodie:

ATF agent: “With minimal work (an airsoft gun) can be converted to a machine gun.”

That isn’t how it works. That isn’t how any of it works.

And you wonder why we have trust issues with you, ATF.

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91 COMMENTS

    • I said the same thing about the comments section and was told “you get what you pay for”. Ok, then remove all the ads…

      • Or how about this: charge me and I’ll pay for site content, but only if the comment form isn’t total garbage. I’d pay $5 a month.

        The thing I don’t get is how this apparently a WordPress site yet WordPress’s default comment system is nowhere near as bad as this thing.

        If enough of us donate to get a comment form, will that motivate them? I’ll contribute $100 right now.

      • I don’t get all the whining about TTAG’s comment section. While I don’t post very often, I occasionally get the bug. Get a couple good ad-blockers. I never see ads, then again I post from my laptop, not my phone. My phone is my phone, nothing else. I’m not a fan of tools that multitask. My guns shoot, my bottle opener opens me beer. By the way, I still have an edit button. I don’t know where yours went.

    • says a lot about the intelligence level of some ATF personnel….you’d have better luck converting a piece of pipe!

  4. A little fun factoid. Did you know that in 2008 and 2016, GOP voters had an opportunity to nominate a Congressman and Senator, respectively, who wanted to abolish the ATF and NFA? Instead they voted for hard core statists who were soft core gun grabbers. Therefore, we can conclude that the ATF will not only stick around, but go from bad to worse. There is no will to do anything about the ATF in this country. In fact, in many cop shows on TV, we’re constantly told how wonderful they are.

      • I agree. Everyone single one of those thugs and all the officers that assisted them should be in prison for a long, long time. A few should be on death row. Lon Horiuchi, the coward who shot a women carrying her baby, has been hiding every day since the events at Ruby Ridge. He deserves nothing less than a bullet between the eyes and I’d love to be the one to pull the trigger. I’m so fucking tired of these agencies. To me, the ATF is a criminal origination and every agent is a criminal and should be automatically treated as such. They have no lawful right to exist in the capacity that they do and should be eradicated post-haste.

        • Let’s keep our stories straight, please. The ATF *started* Ruby Ridge and Branch Davidians, but then were replaced by FBI. Horiuchi, for example, did not work for ATF when he murdered either group of people, he was FBI. At Ruby Ridge ATF killed a dog and a teenager, FBI shot everybody else. ATF’s massive fails do not excuse the fails of the FBI, although their partisan interference in a presidential election should be having them shot by now, *much* worse.

        • those HRT guys are basically a bunch of cowboys…hard to reign in…although larry potts shares some of the blame, as well…ATF starts a lot of things in motion…but it’s the FBI that frequently winds up doing the killing…

        • I know my comment can become confusing, but, I know Horiuchi was a member of the FBI’s HRT. I also am aware of every agency that engaged in the Ruby and Waco sieges. FBI, US Marshals, ATF, local law enforcement, etc. That is why I said that I am sick of “all” these agencies. The FBI has become an enforcement arm for the whims of polticians. Any respect and decency it had have long been washed away. In fact, any legitimacy they all could have claimed, dubious to begin with, have also gone with the wind.

        • actually it was the US marshals that started the shooting at ruby ridge…and one got shot for his trouble…ATF is reminiscent of your troublesome, little brother who always seems to get you into fights you’d rather avoid…..

        • @frank I’m quite who was responsible for both of these illegal assaults on American citizens. It’s just beyond despicable that they are still walking around, enforcing illegal and unconstitutional laws. There is something very wrong with our country when those state-sponsored thugs can walk away unscathed.

    • they’re really not needed as an autonomous agency…spend too much time trying to justify their existence…and it frequently ends badly…..

  5. I know that there are stories of Japanese Yakuza taking really high end airsoft guns and trying to convert them over to fire real ammo. I don’t know of the end results of the actual test firing. But that supposed to happen over 20 years ago. The conversion process was also not an easy task to do so to. A lot of labor and cost of doing it.

    • Seriously?

      If the yakuza can’t figure out how to smuggle in real guns in addition to the drugs and other illicit goods, something odd is going on.

      • The Yakuza essentially all carry, many open carry, and can obtain any kind of firearms they wish, far easier than Japanese LEO. If they were doing such experiments, it was looking to resale or technology sales.

    • Oh no… watch the vid! They were told in no uncertain terms by the ATF that the guns were examined and were deemed to be easily convertible to real gunz! When asked for the documentation of that examination, the shop owners were told they would have to file a Freedom of Information act case!
      I look forward to seeing how this plays out.
      🤠

      • Well, it’s now almost 9 years later and there is Google. Search and you will find out about the rise and fall of very Special Agent Kelvin Crenshaw.

        • Yes, that was in the Seattle office. They seized the very special convertible airsoft guns at the port. I don’t know how that putz got to a field office, but his specialty was not guns, I am guessing sucking up was his main talent.
          After this brilliant exposition of gun ignorance he got bumped up to some management position where he couldn’t do anything too stupid. Like those guys that thought up Fast and Furious.

  7. I’ll bet it would much be easier for someone to get some iron pipe and build a shotgun.
    ATF better start raiding True Value & Home Depot!

    • straight-blowback sub-machine guns have even been built in prison workshops…if you get a chance…take a really good look at a sten…cost the brits about $9 to make at the height of WWII…use to sell those kits at gun shows…and even flea markets…most guys who bought one were ultimately successful in completing the task…

  8. I don’t know much about airsoft guns but something just doesn’t add up here. I’m sure the toys in question operate at substantially less than 10,000 psi which is about as little pressure as any form of cartridge ammunition I’m aware of. Virtually all rifle cartridges exceed twice that pressure and many exceed it by a factor of 6. Even if you did somehow chamber and fire a cartridge, it seems that the store owner is correct, you’d blow the thing up in your face.

    I suppose that by “minimal work” the ATF agent could mean that if you have the receiver and fire control from an actual machine gun then you could use the grip and stock from the replica.

    • most of the better…top end.. airsoft guns are mostly metal (aluminum) and battery powered…but the internals look nothing like a real firearm…i’ve got several around here…and while they do shock some.. [even cops!]… by their realistic appearance…and make great wall hangars….they’re basically harmless…even that M-79 I just picked up that would fool anybody…

      • I was going to say the same thing, conversion, hell, my M-14 came select fire out of the box! Also electric, rechargeable battery, and powerful enough to put those plastic BBs through prickly pear cactus pads. Cool gun! Real ammo? Not a chance in hell, somebody should have challenged that flake to go ahead and do it.

        • just parroting what some other fool told him…suit and tie…and some official “tone”…does not make you an expert…just a pompous ass…….

    • There you go showing off with your gun knowledge. That agent was a complete buffoon. I would like to see him convert one and fire it. Can you say Kaboom!!!

      The consensus was as you stated – put the airsoft furniture on a real gun and there you have it – converted. Now how you get that to do full auto is none of my business. I bet the ATF knows how though.

  10. When I was younger we used to shoot each other with airsoft in the dorms. At one point one of mine broke and I ‘fixed’ it, accidentally turning it fully automatic. Nowadays I have a feeling all of that would not fly.

  12. In a related story, in Tampa the ATF seized 1000 pounds of Play-Doh thinking it was C4 plastic explosives.

  14. This will be really a long, long year if TTAG continues posting crap like this. Very, very Special Agent Kelvin Crenshaw provided quite some comic relief going back to 2003 even. This video is from 2010. Kelvin Crenshaw has retired from BATFE.

  15. Old content and all that….

    But it does illustrate the point that the ATF should have a very intensive training program for agents. Have them spend a week or so assembling, disassembling, and performing a function check on just about every common weapon.

    And image the damage done with the ill-considered orange tip laws. SJWs are showing up at events with air-soft rifles that have been painted black. But imagine the chaos of one of these yahoos painting an AR muzzle device orange. Chaos.

    • don’t give them ideas!….some are painted black…but most are easily removed after purchase…not really legal to take them out in public that way…but that restriction is frequently ignored..occasionally with deadly consequences…..hard to hold-up a convenience store with an orange-tipped gun!…..

    • some are knowledgeable…some are not….in my building they chose to panel their offices with kevlar….just in case somebody screws up?….

      • instead of moving on…to a building of their own…they choose to remain in the main building…putting others at risk…..

  16. Dhs made a big deal out of a toy gun seizure a few years ago. They thought they were real up until someone actually inspected them closely and gave them the news. They tweaked their story to look at these replicas so real criminals would use them in robberies.

  17. NO JURISDICTION

    The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, has no venue or jurisdiction within the borders of any of the 50 States of the united States of America, except in pursuit of an importer of contraband alcohol, tobacco, or firearms, who failed to pay the TAX on those items. As proof, refer to the July 30, 1993 ruling of the United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit, 1 F.3d 1511; 1993 U.S. App. Lexis 19747, where the court ruled in United States v. D.J. Vollmer & Co. that “the B.A.T.F. has jurisdiction over the first sale of a firearm imported to the country, but they don’t have jurisdiction over subsequent
    sales.”

    I suggest everyone read 2 – 3 pages of documentation on ATF’s illegal creation / history.
    It’s a real eye opener , as bad as you thought and worse.

    http://usa-the-republic.com/revenue/BATF-IRS%20Criminal%20Report.html#tgotm

  19. These can’t be turned into guns. The dude is right, even if you could, it’d blow up in your face. You can try it if you read this and you are dumb enough but I’m not paying for the lawsuit, you are.

  20. He should be fired and have the shit kicked out of him. If plastic guns can be converted to machine guns I missed something somewhere. I could have had a cheap machine gun!! ATF can’t be that stupid, can they?

  21. As both a nationally certified firearms instructor, for civilian and law enforcement instructing and as a gunsmith……wow…..I don’t know what is scarier….that dumb**s agent, or the stupid f**k who “trained” him. As a side note, every single time I have had to deal with an ATF agent in an “official” capacity, I’ve had to correct the agent on the law or statute. How can you “inforce” the law when you don’t even know it? If I was that bad at my job, I wouldn’t have one anymore….

  22. I worked at the shop they confiscated those replicas from. The WE Gas M4 with some modification to the lower receiver would line the hammer up with the firing pin in the bolt carrier of a real complete AR-15 upper. So really, any nefarious naughty doer would get a lower receiver out of the deal, and circumvent the background check on that serialized part, and manufacture their own firearm. Which anyone can do already by buying and milling an 80% complete lower. The caveat being that the WE airsoft gun is made of zinc alloy (pot metal), and will not maintain any kind of durability. That agent is a douche though.

  23. Fun fact- This was true… To a point. One company that produced gas blowback airsoft guns in Japan made a version that had the same hole placement as a real M16. The lower, simple as an AR lower is, could be easily modified to use real M16 FCG parts. The company, when informed of this, changed their design. The whole situation created… Zero illegal firearms. It was resolved quickly. Besides that, no other airsoft gun has been an issue, so far as I know.

  24. At the time the ATF guy was on. he tried to put the magazine in backwards. Is the AFT that dumb on how a gun works? If so how do we take ATF’s word for anything?

  27. If you honestly believe this are a fucking retard. It’s nearly impossible to convert an airsoft gun into a real gun

  28. That video is from 2010 and the agents involved said it was one specific model which is not legal to import because of the conversion possibility. Basically, you can put a real AR15 upper with a particular M16 .22lr conversion kit in it on a particular brand gas lower and it will fire… Maybe…

  29. So: nobody at the TV station had enough intellectual curiosity to back up the request from the store owner to see the documentation that “proved” that these toys could be easily turned into lethal weapons? Journalism really is dead.

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