What happens when you listen to the Brady Campaign, who knew this suit had zero chance of success . . . My Daughter Was Murdered in a Mass Shooting. Then I Was Ordered to Pay Her Killer’s Gun Dealer.
Working for the Brady Campaign became a flurry of media appearances and meetings with politicians, police, and survivors. The Brady leadership also encouraged Lonnie and me to sue Lucky Gunner, the dealer that sold the stockpile of ammo to Jessi’s killer. We agreed that dealers should have to take some responsibility. Shouldn’t they have to vet a buyer of military-grade weaponry? Or a buyer of bullets en masse? The primary goal of our lawsuit was to make the gun dealer change its business practices—at a minimum, to ask for proof of identity and do a background check.
The case would go on for three months, yet we never met the judge and never saw a courtroom. When the judge dismissed the suit, he said, “It is apparent that this case was filed to pursue the political purposes of the Brady Center.” In my opinion, the law that protects the gun dealers also bars people like us from our constitutional right to be heard.
CNN explains it all for you . . . How US gun culture compares with the world
The US has one of the highest rates of death by firearm in the developed world, according to World Health Organization data.
Our calculations based on OECD data from 2010 show that Americans are 51 times more likely to be killed by gunfire than people in the United Kingdom.
Most American gun owners (two-thirds) say a major reason they own a gun is for their personal protection, according to the Pew study. However, the majority of America’s firearm-related deaths are attributed to self-harm.
Gun-related suicides are eight times higher in the US than in other high-income nations.
OMG! You really can’t stop the signal! OMG! . . . Fear of downloadable guns becoming a reality
The 3D design files for guns are readily available. But the threat isn’t from the cheap 3D printers, though, because they can only produce low-quality weapons, usually in plastic. It’s from the more accurate computer-controlled milling machines, the prices of which have plummeted in recent years. They produce high-quality parts in metal.
And it’s not individual criminals we should worry about, it’s the organised gangs.
Inside Italy’s Thriving Gun Culture. Yes, Italy
JAGDHUND Jackets Travel from Field to Fashion
BESSEMER, Ala. (July 19, 2017) — JAGDHUND, the Austrian-headquartered clothing line steeped in tradition, quality and innovation, is pleased to offer U.S. consumers its exclusive line of field jackets. The four beautifully designed jackets are intended to function in the field, but they are so versatile, sharp and easy to wear that they are also the garment of choice for Wall Street and Main Street. Combining all-natural materials such as wool, camel hair and alpaca, these JAGDHUND jackets offer quality in design and appearance for both field use and social occasions.
Trooper Cederberg shot 12 times in 50 seconds during Christmas night shootout
Oregon State Trooper Nic Cederberg was shot 12 times in 50 seconds during a Christmas night shootout last year.
That information was revealed in a letter from the Washington County District Attorney’s Office announcing their conclusion that Cederberg was “completely justified” in using deadly force against homicide suspect James Tylka that night.
“It is clear, after my review of this investigation, that Trooper Cederberg acted under the reasonable belief that James Tylka was ‘using or about to use unlawful deadly force’ against Trooper Cederberg at the time he fired his weapon,” wrote Washington County Senior District Attorney Bracken McKey.
Where there’s demand, there will always be supply to fill it . . . America is driving gun sales on the dark web
Sixty percent of all the weapons sold on the dark web are smuggled out of the US, according to research from the RAND Corporation. It, along with the University of Manchester, began investigating the illegal trade in firearms, explosives and ammunition available on Silk Road-esque marketplaces. The pair believe that sellers are making a killing by buying guns in the US and shipping them to Europe, where prices are higher.
Another revelation is that the weapons available are far newer, and are of a far higher quality, than would have been available on the analog black market. As New Scientist points out, “lax gun laws in the US are undermining stricter rules elsewhere,” especially in Europe. In addition to guns and ammunition, people can buy tutorials explaining how to make bombs or convert or reactivate replica and deactivated firearms.
Your feel-good story of the day . . . Teen Girl Uses Dad’s Gun To Defend Herself From Home Intruder
The incident started around 5 a.m. after deputies in Spokane spotted a stolen car and were pursuing the suspect. However, authorities soon lost track of the carjacker after he managed to escape on foot.
After watching the early morning news, 17-year-old Kimber Wood’s boyfriend and parents warned herabout the incident. Since both her parents and boyfriend had left for work, Wood’s phoned her father and asked if she could use one of his guns for protection.
Wood’s father gave her permission and she put the gun under her pillow before falling back asleep. However, a short time later she awoke to the sound of the screen door opening.
The Second Amendment doesn’t mention any exceptions for disabilities . . . Fargo resident advocates for gun rights for visually impaired
While Congress considers the National Reciprocity Act of 2017, which upon passage would allow concealed weapon permit holders to carry firearms in all 50 states, Carey McWilliams, one of that bill’s big advocates, was around the country hunting for grizzly bears.
This took an unexpected turn when he discovered there is a national network of blind concealed firearms carriers.
Carey, 43, of Fargo, has been included in this column before, as he is the first totally blind person in the United States to get a permit to carry guns in public. For this, he has received praise from other blind concealed firearms carriers, some of whom he has helped get their own gun permits and with hunting.
“In my opinion, the law that protects the gun dealers also bars people like us from our constitutional right to be heard.”
You were heard. Your case was assessed by a judge and then dismissed. No one is stopping you from talking, they just aren’t listening.
They probably lost the judge at “military grade weaponry.”
I loved this line from the ‘Mother Jones’ link:
” The primary goal of our lawsuit was to make the gun dealer change its business practices—at a minimum, to ask for proof of identity and do a background check.”
The dealership complied with that requirement, didn’t they?
The psychotic killer *passed* the NICS check…
I’m not sure that a check is required for ammo at that location (yet). And that appeared to be the focus of the lawsuit.
No background check for ammo–yet–but it wouldn’t have made any difference, since the buyer would have passed it, just as he did when he purchased his other weapons.
[California is going in that direction. Vendor licensing goes into effect January 1, and all ammo can be delivered only in a face to face transaction. Dealer must report name, addr, caliber/gauge and amount of ammo sold to the state. There are two versions of the required background check, one bill had it as a NICS check, but California does not participate in that system, and the other a check against a state data base through the “armed prohibited persons system’ (APPS). The requirement of buyers having to be licensed (with a background check) goes into effect I think 7/1/19.]
And in my opinion, this woman and her husband knew what they were doing when they filed suit. They sold their house and cashed in all of their assets to become judgement proof so that the companies they harassed would not be able to recover against them. I suspect they were advised to do this by lawyers working for the Brady bunch.
That is absolutely reprehensible.
Cash is an asset, and unless they spent all of that money paying off other creditors, it can be attached. All that will be sorted out in bankruptcy court, which will not look kindly on them if they’ve secreted assets.
Their debt may not be dischargeable. Debts from willful and malicious acts to another person or another person’s property cannot be discharged if the creditor objects. It’s usually about intentional torts. I don’t know enough of the case law to say whether there is support for applying it to this situation, but if they did this knowing they were going to lose, they meet the definition of willful.
“All that will be sorted out in bankruptcy court, which will not look kindly on them if they’ve secreted assets.”
…and in the ‘Mother Jones’ article, there’s this jem-
“Today, after nearly five years of activism, Lonnie and I continue to struggle. We filed for Chapter 11 protection in January because we could not afford to pay the legal fees for Lucky Gunner.
But even if we could afford the gun dealer’s legal fees, we would never pay. ”
Publicly announcing they will defy a court order. Stupid.
I hope that judge in the bankruptcy court sees that article.
There are professional companies that specialize in tracking down assets. (Very popular with women finding where husbands hide assets during divorces.) I hope someone takes an interest in discovering what they have possibly hidden away…
“constitutional right to be heard” Not in there. RTKABA is though. Ignorant on purpose it is to go after the means and the use of of ‘arms’ by an attempt to limit ammunition.
FU Brady people, come the next civil war, you and your donors will be hunted.
Once you hire an attorney, you lose your right to speak in court unless you are called as a witness. This couple were heard–through there attorneys. They could have gone to court with their attorneys, but it sounds like their attorneys did not advise them of various hearing dates. Then again, there may not have been oral argument on the motion to dismiss–it is discretionary with the federal court, which may decide the case on the pleadings.
That’s why I said assessed.
I don’t know what state you’re from or where you practice law, but where I practice law, this is not an accurate statement.
Yes, yes, I remember now, freedom to make people listen to you comes right after freedom of speech. Rachel Madcow should invoke this part of the Constitution more often. It would help her ratings.
Please don’t help that cow’s rating!
I don’t know, I liked her in the Karate Kid movies. I guess that has been a while though.
I thought she was a cross-dresser / tran-interuptus?
Best part of the Spokane story:
She’s 17, and a girl. I think a warning shot is justified
Yes, but the boyfriend wasn’t there and dad was out of town. I think her father would have more luck with the warning if the boyfriend is present.
“The man ran from the house and Wood fired a warning shot to let him know she was serious.”
No, a “warning shot” is not justified if the perp is running away. What’s the warning? That she was serious? The fact that he was running away is evidence that he already knew that.
It only became a warning shot after she missed.
“It only became a warning shot after she missed.”
Legally, that would be even worse.
Even as a joke, never even hint such if being questioned. These things are usually either recorded or written down. When read or played back to a jury…
No warning shots.
Let’s get the young woman a gift certificates to a good defensive pistol course and a concealed carry permit course.
Anybody familiar with Insights Training Center, spokane, Washington?
She NOW, in one episode, has more DGU experience than half of the people here.
She might need to go to the range, but training ain’t an absolute necessity.
If the perp is running away, it’s not a DGU, is it?
You’d have to check with the jury. When she said she was afraid he’d come back, I doubt I would go with a “guilty” finding.
@ Missouri_Mule — Sharp Shooting Indoor Range & Gun Shop offers all the classes. Including women-specific ones usually taught by the owner, Robin Ball.
Really, I posted that quote from the story because we’re basically always talking on here about how firing a warning shot is a huge no-no and will get you prosecuted for various wreckless behavior and for firing a gun in city limits, etc etc. Well, in this case not only did that not happen, but the Sheriff’s Department commended her.
That does not mean she was right, it means she was lucky.
“Really, I posted that quote from the story because we’re basically always talking on here about how firing a warning shot is a huge no-no and will get you prosecuted for various wreckless behavior and for firing a gun in city limits, etc etc. Well, in this case not only did that not happen, but the Sheriff’s Department commended her.”
I read the story again, and the sheriff’s department didn’t commend her for firing a shot, but for how she fended off a home intruder, which is not the same thing.
Stories like this are often written in confusing ways, and I’ve seen several where I knew what happened, and I have to wonder if the story was about the same incident.
I seriously doubt she was commended for firing a warning shot at a fleeing person. Here in Phoenix (and in most places) she would be facing charges. (Not that I really think, in the situation as it was told, that would be indicated.)
I wonder how much more likely a subject of the crown is to be blown up, stabbed, or shot by jihadi bond in the uk than a US citizen is here?
Oh yeah I forgot guns are bad and this country needs to be more civilized like the rest of the properly islamified world.
In response to the first article: You don’t have a constitutional right *to be heard*. I’m so sorry the people you sold your soul (and brain) to didn’t explain that to you.
Indeed. Talk about brainwashed.
“While Congress considers the National Reciprocity Act of 2017, which upon passage would allow concealed weapon permit holders to carry firearms in all 50 states”
Your permit would be good, but your carry gun and ammo may still be illegal in 8 States and D.C.
http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-laws/policy-areas/hardware-ammunition/large-capacity-magazines/
Scroll down to Summary of State Law.
In addition, Hollow Point ammo is illegal in New Jersey.
My carry gun is illegal in those 8 States and D.C.
Baby steps.
I don’t think it’s going to happen, but if it passes in that form just carry a .45 with hardball ammunition or a .357 Magnum (or .44 if you really want to make New Joisey people crap their britches)
I like the way you think!
.44 Mag with full-power 180 grain JHPs; the muzzle flash will set off the Russians’ missile-launch-alert satellites.
Go read H.R. 38. It authorizes someone with a valid license or permit to conceal carry a gun that has been shipped or transported in interstate commerce (which necessarily includes any gun you take to another state). The definition of firearm includes the magazine(s) and the ammunition in the magazine(s).
You’re kidding! Think that’ll stick?
He he he…you rolled the dice. You LOSE. Pay up! And yes jagoff Jimmy Kimmel made sport of the blind dude with his usual crude and spectacularly unfunny “comedy”. I won’t forget…
“My Daughter Was Murdered in a Mass Shooting. Then I Was Ordered to Pay Her Killer’s Gun Dealer.”
Disingenuous. Misleading. If she hadn’t attacked Bushmaster, she wouldn’t have been ordered to pay their legal defense bills. She was the wrongful aggressor.
Someone stole my TV, so when I went to his house to burn it down, I was charged wirh arson!
I understand equating your child being killed and a TV being stolen is in rather poor taste but the statement is basically the same.
Not really. She did not go to the killer’s house, she went to the store down the street from him, and burned it down.
If you haven’t watched the police body camera video, you should. I am stunned that the police didn’t shoot each other. I cannot count how many times a cop walked in front of another cop’s muzzle. Then there is the whole bit that none of them really knew who was covering rear-left, left, front-left, front, front-right, right, and rear-right.
It’s a wonder that more people were not wounded/killed.
The Brady bunch really should be taken to task and publicly shamed for throwing the Sandy Hook victims’ families under the bus. Their tactics were downright repugnant.
What’s the is the insult upon injury here is the fact that the Phillips family were used by the Brady Center and the Mom’s crew not to mention the Obama administration.Each of these outfits have attorneys that knew the case was a loser, but encouraged them anyway. Now they’re broke and no where near any kind of closure and never will be
Ignorance is expensive. Willful ignorance can be even moreso.
I think it’s deplorable that they were used in this way. But let us not forget, they allowed themselves to be used. Enough time had passed since the shooting that they should have been able to think clearly about this.
The lesson that should be learned here is that you NEVER listen to advice given by a lawyer someone else paid for.
Like most progtards, Brady, Mom’s, et al were banking on a Hillary win and an EO removing all firearms, ammunition and accessories from the “Protected” businesses list. Had Hillary won, the courts would be flooded with these idiotic lawsuits.
Let her sue all the advocates that helped her bring the case.
Usually I’m opposed to giving lawyers more money but in this case they might be the lesser evil.
Will sharks go after other sharks?
(I think that used to be a joke about professional courtesy…)
That’s why medical malpractice cases are so hard to win.
If a client hired me for a case like theirs (a guaranteed loser), I would make them sign an acknowledgement that I told them they were going to lose. If I don’t think I can win, I tell the client. I’ll tell them they can pay me to lose if they really want to.
There have been a lot of cases that I would have really liked to try just to see the results, but the stakes just weren’t high enough to recommend the client go forward.
In response to the dark web guns. How do they have any damn clue where a single gun has come from? I’m pretty sure that the only way they could have determined so would have been by conducting probably illegal arms trades to receive those weapons, right?
They could have collected results of traces on guns found on criminals by police. That kind of information leaves a lot to be desired on its face (American cops don’t know anything about guns. How much do you think European cops do?), and would require a good deal of manual sorting I doubt they’d get anywhere close to a reasonable sample size. That’s on top of the problems finding the stuff. If you went to every PD in the UK and asked “can I get your data on this” and they complied, you might be able to make a determination about the UK, but that’s just the UK. To get information for most other countries you’d need an army of translators just to start.
The ATF might work as a source of information. Foreign police can ask them if a gun came from the US (This is the basis of the media’s claim of how many guns in Mexico came from the US). This also has problems, and they’re even bigger than the other possible source. Number 1 (which is the big issue with the numbers about Mexico) is that the ATF will only be asked if the locals think there’s a possibility it came from the US. When the Spanish government found a stash of 9000 CETMEs in a criminal warehouse back in March, I really doubt they bothered asking the ATF if the fun-switched CETMEs were sold in America then smuggled to Spain.
“However, a short time later she awoke to the sound of the screen door opening.”
If there’s a fugitive running around your neighborhood and you’re going to lay down for a nap, I would advise that you seek a bit more security than just a screen door can provide… A gun under the pillow is great (as long as you don’t blow your own head off in your sleep), but a locked, solid door might have been a helpful addition to the proceedings.
As for “organized gangs” buying milling machines and making guns, that might be a risk in places like the UK or Australia where handguns are a bit more difficult to come by, but I don’t see the Crips or the Bloods learning how to operate a CNC mill. It’s way easier to get Pookie’s cousin’s baby mama to straw-buy for you or steal one from a productive citizen than it is to make ’em from scratch.
” “lax gun laws in the US are undermining stricter rules elsewhere,” especially in Europe.”
Translation: “We’re going to try to push UN gun control mandates on all of you.”
Time to buy a Ghost Gunner II?
>blind concealed carriers
CAN’T SEE SHIT, CAPTAIN!
Oh what the hell. It’s a shot in the dark.
Sounds like she got heard OK at Mother Jones.
She was also front and center for documentary “Under the Gun”.
The Mother Jones article — and Ms. Phillips’ recitations — are replete with factual errors, if not deliberate misrepresentations (yeah, knock me over with a feather).
I pulled the PACER file for the Phillips’ bankruptcy: Case No. 17-50185-cag (Bankr. W.D.Tex.). Inter alia:
(1) Case was a “no asset” Chapter 7 case, not a Chapter 11.
(2) Based on their schedules, the unsecured judgment claim of Lucky Gunner is under $120,000. However, the unsecured judgment claim of Cinemark — the theater operator who they also stupidly sued — is for $700,000. So the assertion that it was evil Lucky Gunner who forced them into penury is garbage — it was their own stupid decisions to bring specious claims against a host of folks. Put differently, even if the judgment in favor of Lucky Gunner is completely disregarded, they’d still be upside down by a huge amount.
(3) Amusingly, the asset schedules include a listing of a “.12 gauge shotgun”
Because this case was quietly filed as a “no asset” Chapter 7 case in January, the discharge has already happened and the case has been closed. As such, I seriously doubt that the bankruptcy trustee made any real effort to evaluate whether or not they committed any fraudulent transfers or similar efforts to hinder/defraud/delay creditors. Unfortunately, that’s the way it usually works in no-asset Chapter 7 cases.
” Put differently, even if the judgment in favor of Lucky Gunner is completely disregarded, they’d still be upside down by a huge amount.”
And they did it anyways. Cinemark (simply due to the sheer size of the company) could likely better afford that hit, but still.
“(3) Amusingly, the asset schedules include a listing of a “.12 gauge shotgun” ”
*snicker*
.9mm, and now .12 gauge.
Thanks for taking the time to look that up, LKB. It’s nice having folks with ‘fingers’ in the ‘system’, so to speak…
Mental exercise: how big is a “.12 gauge shotgun”?
Shotgun gauge x is the bore size that holds a lead ball that weight 1/x lbs.; e.g., 12 gauge is the size of a bore that would hold a 1/12 lb. lead ball (i.e., 0.729″).
By that logic, 1 / 0.12 = 8.33 lbs.
Density of lead is 0.409 lbs/cubic inch.
Ergo, a 8.33 lb. lead ball is 20.37489 cubic inches.
Volume of a sphere = (4/3) x Pi x R3.
Ergo, our 20.37489 cubic inch lead sphere has a radius of about 1.694″, and thus a diameter of 3.38.”
That’s pretty close to the bore of an old “6 pound” cannon (where pounds reflected the weight of the cast iron ball it shot).
(Or, alternative, you could just treat it like a .410 shotgun (which isn’t a gauge at all, but is just the size of the bore).
But what’s the fun of a shotgun with a barrel less than half the size of a .22 . . . . . . .) 😉
“Shotgun gauge x is the bore size that holds a lead ball that weight 1/x lbs.; e.g., 12 gauge is the size of a bore that would hold a 1/12 lb. lead ball (i.e., 0.729″).
By that logic, 1 / 0.12 = 8.33 lbs.”
You do see what you did there, right?
1/12 is a far cry from 1/.12.
Of course it is. That’s why the reference in the bankruptcy schedules to a “.12 gauge shotgun” is amusing.
Those jackets, while good-looking, are insanely pricey. If I had $550, I would be thinking about buying either a military surplus rifle or LEO trade-in to add to the collection.
“The US has one of the highest rates of death by firearm in the developed world, according to World Health Organization data.”
Aaah, well I would argue that the places in the US where the “highest rates of death by firearm” occur, are hardly what one would call “developed”. The places in Chicago and baltimore where must of the “crimes with a firearm” occur are barely recognizable from Somali. I’d also argue that the “guns per capita” in those specific locations is far lower than the outlying counties. More guns does not equal more crime; more shitty people equals more crime, and some of those shitty people have managed to obtain guns despite all the “fantastic” controls to stop such things. Root cause people
Not even a statistic worthy of response, unless one believes that it’s worse to be killed by firearm than by some other means.
“Less than two months earlier, Jessi had narrowly missed another shooting, at a mall in Toronto.” – Proof that Canada’s strict gun laws save lives?
I don’t know about anybody or anywhere else but when I buy ammo online, on my initial transaction with the dealer I’m required to send a copy of my NJ FID card and Driver’s license. The dealer then keeps them on file for any subsequent purchases.
“…when I buy ammo online, on my initial transaction with the dealer I’m required to send a copy of my NJ FID card and Driver’s license. The dealer then keeps them on file for any subsequent purchases.”
Don’t be surprised if NJ is ‘inspired’ by California and institutes it’s own draconian ammo shakedown law.
It will make them look good come election time as they point out to their constituents that they “Did something about ‘gun violence’…
One of you lawyers please explain to me how that crap is forced on a gun or ammo dealer in TX, just as an example. I can order ammo from anywhere and it arrives at my door. If a federal law forces an independent company to comply with stupid laws that differ in each state, that law should currently be a *target*!
When I order ammo online they ship ups or FedEx and I know both drivers. They just set it on the steps and my dog lays by the box until I retrieve it. No background check no hassle, just pay and wait. Just the way it ought to be.
It seems to me that exactly what should happen has happened. Rather than accept the plain and obvious fact that the death of their daughter was the result of one man’s criminal actions and seek closure, these two decided to misuse the courts in an attempt to assert thier social policy beliefs on society at large, via bringing financial harm to several companies who had done nothing except engage responsibly in lawful commerce. They essentially admit they knew they would lose, they liquidated their assets ahead of the legally inevitable judgement that would leave them liable for defendants costs…in short they appear to have intentionally bankrupted themselves, and may have committed criminal acts in the process.
The only question in my mind is why? In light of the PLCAA, which clearly they were aware of by their own admissions and by their efforts in liquidating their assets ahead of the judgement, what did they hope to accomplish by bringing this suit? Aside from presenting themselves as martyrs to the PLCAA and the ‘gun lobby’, what did they stand to gain?
I suggest that they proceeded under a common leftist delusion, as partially evidenced by their assertion of nonexistent constitutional rights: Something bad happened, thus ‘government’ must ‘do something’. Since the executive and the legislature weren’t forthcoming with satisfaction, they turned to the judiciary for relief from their perceived harm. The disconnect occurs at this point, when they assume, naturally enough based on their bias, that the court will share their bias and concern and thus provide relief. Like all true believers, they just assume that regardless of the law, ‘government’ will take their side, because they are good little statists advancing the cause of the state.
It’s this delusion of nonexistent rights, of an echo chamber of bias, and ultimately of the magical thinking demonstrated in their apparent belief that because they, and all the people they know feel guns and gun companies are bad, that despite the rather plainly worded law to the contrary, the court would somehow punish these gun people for the criminal acts of another.
This is simply an example of what happens when delusions are tested against reality….reality always wins.
How many little girls are these regulators willing to sacrifice to prowlers, because the guns available in the US are “too new?”
I wonder, how many of the implicitly “too many” gun incidents or deaths are people who #shootback to stay alive — like little girls in Spokane, for example.
If they weren’t doing murder, maybe they weren’t doing anything wrong, indeed, were doing something profoundly right.
Maybe we wanna stop the violent folk before it takes a citizens’ gun to stop them.
amazing. only two people commented on blind man with a CCP. yeah, such a good idea. what a total lack of common sense jesus.
Would’ve liked one of those jackets, but then I saw the price. For $547.95 I could buy another gun instead… Yikes!
As others have said you have no constitutional right to be heard
54% of all US counties had no murders
I’m certain those counties are safer than the entire nation of England