Governor Gary Herbert has signed H.B. 198 into law. The bill provides for adults aged 18-20 to obtain a Utah concealed carry permit. The bill requires that permit holders meet minimum age requirements of other states when in those states. From utah.gov:
This bill:
▸ establishes a provisional permit to carry a concealed firearm;
▸ stipulates that individuals must be at least 18 years of age, but no more than 20 years of age, to obtain the permit;
▸ stipulates that the holder of a provisional permit issued by the state must meet eligibility requirements, including minimum age requirements, to carry a concealed firearm in another state; and
▸ prohibits a provisional permit holder from carrying a concealed firearm on or about an elementary or secondary school premises.
There are a number of states that provide for adults aged 18 to 20 to obtain concealed carry permit or who may legally carry firearms for self defense.
That number is likely to increase. It makes no sense to trust people aged 18-20 to vote, which is much more dangerous than carrying a defensive weapon, but not trust them with the full responsibilities of adulthood.
H.B. 198 passed the House 63-12, and the Senate 23-6. It was signed into law by Governor Gary Herbert on 23 March, 2017.
Herbert, in his monthly KUED press conference held before he signed the bill, said he had heard the arguments for and against the change.
“I understand the arguments again on both sides of that,” he said. “Are you mature enough in fact to have a concealed weapon at 18 to 21? You juxtapose that over we have people we put in the military that carry M16s and other weapons with the intent of defending our freedoms and killing people. If they are old enough to do that, they are probably old enough to get some training and carry a weapon.”
©2017 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice and link are included. Gun Watch
I’d have to agree with the Governor. We’ll see what changes, though I’m pretty sure they’ll be negligible. Still, we are eating the elephant.
We have had CCW for members of the Military for several years st 18 and more recently CCW at 19 for everyone else. It has NOT BEEN A PROBLEM. Since Missouri is a free state, handguns and ammunition is available privately.
I hope UT gets a new Gov soon, Herbert keeps vetoing Constitutional Carry in UT. He’s a squish on gun rights, he’s not solid by any measure.
Yeah I really wish we could get constitutional carry. Besides that Utah has pretty good gun laws.
18 year Olds get a bad deal. Old enough to do almost anything except drink a beer.
I agree, if you’re old enough to put your life on the line for your country you should be allowed to have an alcoholic beverage.
Somehow I don’t think alcohol freedom/liberalizing alcohol laws will be a priority in Utah.
Good guess! Utah just lowered presumptive DWI to .05% BAC.
This is in Utah. I suspect there’s not going to be a lot of sympathy/urge to change that.
It is legal for my 19 year old son to enter a gun store, fill out a NICS form, and walk out with a AK-47.
It may or may not be legal for him to car carry a handgun. Gun store owners say yes, the Austin DPS says no. The Austin (just the person who answers the phone, haven’t gotten past that to a higher authority) DPS also stupidly says he can’t have a rifle in the car.
I was explaining this predicament to a friend who had little knowledge of gun laws. She was perplexed at the age restrictions for rifles and handguns. As she stated “They both shoot bullets.”
The only problem I see with this is, they can’t buy a handgun from an ffl or buy the bullets even sometimes possess the rounds so how is this gonna play out
Private sales.
Utah has no laws against it.
Federal law only states you have to be 21 to buy from a FFL. It says nothing about age for possession or purchasing (which is generally accepted at 18) from a different source.
They just threw their reciprocity out the window. Maybe that was the plan, kill reciprocity with millions while looking like the good guys helping the 18-21 crowd.
I don’t follow your logic.
This creates a new type of permit, a provisional permit. There is no reason that other states can’t recognize the 21 and over permit while not recognizing the provisional permit provided that Utah properly marks the provisional permit as being different.
I don’t know how it may have changed since I got a driver’s license way back in the heady days of aught-one, but just prior to that my Michigan “learner’s permit” wasn’t recognized in some states even if my parents were in the car with me at the time.
Funnily enough, when we moved to New Mexico the people at the DMV had no idea what they were looking at with my Michigan learner’s permit (paper) and simply issued me a license with no testing of any type because they thought they were looking at what New Mexico then termed a “provisional license” (plastic ID card), which is a restricted license for those under 18 years of age.
The requirements for reciprocity in most states is equal licensing qualifications. Example, Florida won’t recognize Maine because Maine doesn’t require a safety class before being licensed. R.I. has reciprocity with no one because they are the only state that requires you to qualify by numeric caliber. Yes, they are so horrifically stupid that if you qualify with a .357 mag you cannot carry a .38 special because NUMERICALLY .357 is smaller than .38 super smart huh?
Back on subject, their licensing requirements are no longer equal and im.sure no state’s a.g. is going to open the state up to a lawsuit from a 19 year old with a Utah permit and a bunch of money for a lawyer (or a parent that is one). It’s just easier to cancel reciprocity.
I’m pretty sure no state has any civil liability for licensing or recognizing another state’s license of an 18-20 year old. That’s silly.
Now, I don’t doubt that many states will not recognize Utah’s new provisional license to carry, because it doesn’t match their own state’s age requirements. However, no state is concerned about getting sued because some 19 year old has a carry license and commits a crime.
Let me run scenario by you. Let’s say the state of Florida decided to extend its reciprocity to the new 18-20 permit and a 19 year old shoots someone in what he thinks is self defense but ends up convicted of a crime instead. Could the now “victim” or their family sue the state for allowing a person who does not meet the requirements of the state he is visiting to carry anyways and doing whatever wrong they did unto said person? Just try and tell me an attorney wouldn’t jizz over that case.
“Let’s say the state of Florida decided to extend its reciprocity to the new 18-20 permit and a 19 year old shoots someone in what he thinks is self defense but ends up convicted of a crime instead. Could the now “victim” or their family sue the state for allowing a person who does not meet the requirements of the state he is visiting to carry anyways and doing whatever wrong they did unto said person?”
So, he’s an under-21 resident of Utah, gets a Utah under-21 provisional permit, and visits Florida. Florida has changed its “reciprocity” statute (790.015) so they honor Utah’s special under-21 provisional permit. While visiting Florida, he shoots someone. The victim’s family sues the state of Florida, because the state allowed someone to carry who doesn’t meet Florida’s own “21 years of age or older” licensing requirement.
It doesn’t seem likely that Florida would change the reciprocity statute (790.015) to allow under-21 permit holders from other states to carry in Florida, without also changing the licensing requirements (790.06) for their own residents. I imagine Florida residents would complain about that.
Incidentally, Florida has already considered this. On their “reciprocity” page, they list several states (12 of them, not including Utah) that issue permits to persons under 21 years of age. They also note that “any licensee of these reciprocity states who is not 21 years of age or older is prohibited from carrying a concealed weapon or firearm in Florida”.
http://www.freshfromflorida.com/Divisions-Offices/Licensing/Concealed-Weapon-License/Related-Information/States-Recognizing-Florida-License
“This creates a new type of permit, a provisional permit. There is no reason that other states can’t recognize the 21 and over permit while not recognizing the provisional permit”
The other states don’t even have to do anything special. Their existing laws likely suffice.
For example, Colorado honors other states’ permits as long as:
1) the other state honors Colorado’s permit; and
2) the other state’s permit is issued to a resident of that state; and
3) the permittee is at least 21 years of age.
If your Tennessee permit was good in Colorado in 2016, it’s good today. If you’re under 21 and get one of Tennessee’s new “provisional, under-21” permits, it’s not good in Colorado.
Several states already do this. For example, Florida’s reciprocity page refers to several states that issue permits to persons under 21 years of age. That page specifically says that your permit from such a state is only good in Florida if you’re at least 21.
To me, this seems to be the same as the usual “obey the laws in the state where you’re carrying”. With my Colorado permit, I can carry in bars, hospitals, churches, colleges and universities, government buildings, etc. Some states prohibit some of these locations. If I’m traveling in a state that honors CO’s permit, I may have to avoid places that would be allowed in CO. The “must be 21” requirement doesn’t seem to be any different.
While good for 18-20 year olds in Utah, this will not be good for those who got a UT CCW permit for reciprocity purposes. I’d expect UT reciprocity agreements to start being cancelled.
Um yeah… I’m sure that made sense in your head. I’ll leave my snarky, yet logical response in mine.
You should skip the snark and read more:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/01/robert-farago/eight-states-eliminate-partially-reject-tn-handgun-permits-reciprocity/
Um yeah… I’m sure that retort made sense in your head.
So, yeah, we’ll see how fast the UT reciprocity agreements start to fall and/or get modified.
Want to try again?
In that TTAG article, it lists eight states who will no longer accept TN permits. Of those, only 1 (Washington) is no longer honoring ANY TN permits. The other seven won’t honor TN permits issued to 18-20 year olds and/or non-residents.
In at least two cases (Colorado and Florida), that’s nothing new. Neither state honors permits issued to persons under 21. Neither state honors permits issued to persons who are not a resident of the issuing state. If, prior to TN’s new “18-20 year old” law, your TN permit was good in CO and FL, it’s still good in CO and FL.
I haven’t checked the other 5 states, but I suspect they’re similar to CO and FL (must be 21 and/or must be a resident of the issuing state). If that’s the case, it’s nothing new, and there’s no actual change in reciprocity due to the new TN law.
In the case of Washington, it’s because of that state’s reciprocity law. One of the requirements for reciprocity is “The licensing state does not issue concealed pistol licenses to persons under twenty-one years of age”. http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.073
So, yeah, your Utah license will probably become invalid in WA pretty soon. WA’s pretty screwed up, anyway. They only accept permits from 9 other states. 17 states are excluded because those states don’t require a mental health background check (or the check isn’t up to WA standards). 17 states are excluded because they issue permits to persons under 21. (There’s some overlap between the two sets, and the WA list was last updated June 2015). http://www.atg.wa.gov/concealed-weapon-reciprocity
Yes… Go ahead and read more. I will still take the high road on my snark.
Definitely Washington’s, because they have a blanket ban on reciprocity with any state that issues permits to anyone under 21.
What other states have a statute like Washington’s and will stop accepting ALL Utah permits?
I suspect that there are few, if any, such states. I suspect that any age requirements in most other states’ existing laws merely say “we’ll accept your out-of-state permit if you’re at least 21”.
Darn it, now I have to consider moving to Utah.
What other states besides Utah, Indiana, and Vermont have “legal” concealed carry for 18 year-olds?
Missouri is 18 for military, 19 for everyone else.
North Dakota offers their Class 2 permit for in-state carry, for 18- to 20-year-olds.
Montana is 18+.