Federal officials have uncovered enough credible evidence from social media of possible mass shooting sprees at showings of the upcoming Joker movie that they have issued warnings nationwide. The US Army, citing this information, warned its personnel of the potential for danger and urged caution.
Supposedly, involuntarily celibate males (AKA “incels”) celebrate many of the themes presented in the movie. The main character, the Joker, becomes alienated from society and angry, then turns to violence following “too much” rejection in his life. This allegedly mirrors the anger and alienation real world incels experience from constant rejection by women.
Or so the story goes.
Warner Bros has released a statement on the controversy regarding ‘JOKER’:
“Neither the fictional character, nor the film, is an endorsement of real-world violence of any kind. It is not the intention of the film, filmmakers or the studio to hold this character up as a hero.” pic.twitter.com/LBEYZvv3jI
— DiscussingFilm (@DiscussingFilm) September 24, 2019
More on incels from Urban Dictionary:
aka “involuntarily celibate“, a person (usually male) who has a horrible personality and treats women like sexual objects and thinks his lack of a sex life comes from being “ugly” when its really just his blatant sexism and terrible attitude. Incels have little to no self awareness; even when they see other “ugly” men with girlfriends, they consider these men to be tricksters who have somehow beat the system and can get women despite being cursed with unattractiveness (in other words, they’re respectful to women and women are attracted to their personalities, but incels can’t comprehend such a phenomenon). They believe that women owe them sex, and many of the more extreme incels like to spend time in incel communities on the internet coming up with ways to make women have sex with them (often involving genocide of people of color, genocide of “Chads” (men who have sex), taking rights away from women, raping them, having sex with women’s dead bodies, and other horrid, disgusting things. They cant understand that that is PRECISELY why women want nothing to do with them).
The New York Post has the story on the alleged threat . . .
The Army issued a warning to its personnel about the possibility of crazed “incel” extremists carrying out mass shootings at upcoming screenings of “Joker,” according to a new report.
Marked “For official use only,” the Sept. 18 e-mail advised service members planning to watch the movie in theaters to “identify two escape routes” and to “run, hide, fight” in the event of a shooting, Gizmodo reported.
“Run if you can,” the message said. “If you’re stuck, hide (also known as ‘sheltering in place’), and stay quiet. If a shooter finds you, fight with whatever you can.”
On Tuesday, the Army confirmed to Gizmodo that it issued the warning in light of alarming social-media posts flagged by the FBI from the “incel” — or “involuntarily celibate” — community of alienated men who feel they have been shunned by society and can’t get dates.
The Army e-mail explained that incels “idolize the Joker character, the violent clown from the Batman series” — an angry loner who turns to violence after too much rejection.
They also like “his depiction as a man who must pretend to be happy but eventually fights back against bullies,” the Army said.
The first rule of winning a gunfight remains “don’t show up.” The Joker movies lands in theaters on Thursday, October 3rd. If you want to guarantee you don’t end up as a “score” in some incel loser’s blaze of momentary glory, take a pass. After all, it’s just a movie.
If you absolutely must see this new flick, remember the second rule to winning a gunfight involves having a gun. Arguably situational awareness might rank even higher on the list. After all, if you identify suspicious behavior early enough, a person can take action to avoid or escape a situation and potential ensuing violence.
But carry your gun. Carry it everywhere you legally can. If your state’s laws preclude carry in posted locations, you have to weigh the potential personal risk for ignoring the signage. After all, concealed means concealed.
I know that in some states, all management can do is ask you to leave if you are discovered to be packing. Other states consider it a misdemeanor with a minor fine, while others will suspend or revoke a carry license and could bring felony charges. Know your state’s laws.
Handgunlaw.us provides some outstanding information for determining each state’s carry laws and regulation.
No one knows how realistic the threat may or may not be. In the end, be careful and always watch for behavior outside of the baseline of normalcy as a potential danger. Know your exits and have a plan in case things go sideways.
Of all the dangers we face in life now we have to add the ‘couldn’t buy pussy in a whorehouse with money dripping off them’ brigade.
Is it any wonder normal folk want to be armed?
Exactly. My father and I were watching some movie, can’t remember which, and it showed a BDSM club scene where there was a fat guy in a cage licking a lollipop. My Dad simply says, “I fucking hate humanity.”
OMG…really?
So when something does happen they can say “we told you”…
So…how about the ones that see all this and say they were influenced by the articles?
If movies are going to ban firearms, they need to actually enforce it…metal detectors and physical searches…otherwise sue them if/when something happens and they did not enforce their ban.
Same for any place with a weapons ban…enforce it or face the consequences in court and the wallet.
It’s worth pointing out that the Colorado movie theater Batman shooter parked near an auditorium exit, entered the theater normally, and then went to his car full of weapons and gear via the exit, blocking the door from completely closing so he could return after arming up. He would have passed metal detectors and security theater screening (pardon the pun) going in.
No problem. The theaters will block the exits so no one can do it.
You mean Kyle, the 16-year-old usher/custodian, will block the exits from being overrun with overweight neckbeards looking to run up a bodycount on account of the fact that wearing a fedora and having an unhealthy knowledge of Japanese animation is unattractive to women? Let’s fucking hope so.
So what do you like better Pat, Robotech or Gundam?
How about you quit bullying private property owners by way of laws backed by armed agents of the state? Plenty of people get killed by jack wagons who never intended that day to kill anyone, but for whatever reason ended up spurred to commit homicide by their own emotional reaction to whatever events they experienced that day. That’s why many property ownere don’t want guns on the premises. They aren’t stupid; they realize that a determined killer is dissuaded by “no guns” signs. They just want to avoid the violence of those whi are stirred by sudden passion, which is much more common than some maniacal spree shooter.
Bottom line is that compelling a private property owner to bear liability for spree shooters is as unreasonable and asinine as demanding that YOU bear responsibility for any negligent discharge or impromptu violence committed by others in exchange for you being allowed to carry. Don’t like it? Don’t go there. Otherwise, you assume the risk.
Make it so no one going in to screen the movie has less than 2 ladies with them. Security will be a snap.
Firearm restricted areas DO NOT PROVIDE PROTECTION From any form of criminal inflected injury or death. NONE, ZERO, ZIP! You must either avoid those Areas or Provide Your Own Protection. There’s no other alternatives.
Hey Joker, “Involuntary celibate whatever’s…”
If you are that incompetent, try masturbation. Try inhaling straight acetone.
Try 4 grams of smack in a needle.
Just go ahead and stick the giving end of your gat into your mouth. Pull the trigger, just once.
Please.
Wow, you are so tough and manly. I wonder how many little boys did you abuse in your life? Or were you one of them and now feel the need to show how big and bad you are to get aproval from the other mongoloids? I bet you are/were a cop or a soldier boy, typical path for a bully/bully wanabee.
Wut?
Struck a chord with this incel, you did Tom
“Struck a chord with this incel,…”
*snicker* 😉
I’m married with children, so I’m no incel…
But the comment made by this Tom got are exactly what is wrong with society…
You’re a Fkn bully…. Face it and move on…
Encouraging someone to commit suicide is a pretty lame thing to do…
So yes, the incel is right…. This Tom fool is exactly what the incel said….
I say to Tom to use a shotgun on himself so that we don’t have to look at his ugly fkn face…js
(“Encouraging someone to commit suicide is a pretty lame thing to do”)
And then you ENCOURAGE SOMEONE “to use a shotgun on himself” So what is the difference between that “FKN BULLY” and you?….
Oh, look – here is one of them incels!
You probably sit around masterbating into your mother’s anus everyday…. Don’t you….fkn pos
George,
You outed yourself as a 19-yr-old basement dweller long ago. Nobody really listens to you anymore. You’re definitely not part of the mature half of the planet.
Give them the Ed Buck experience.
Oh good grief. The thought of violence at movie theaters never even crossed my mind…not once.
Now, thanks to everyone and their dog shouting “Danger!” from the rooftops, it’s on everyone’s mind. Including a few with some screws loose who now have an idea of what to do on Opening Night.
It’s almost like……..almost like certain people in ivory towers *want* another mass shooting to happen so the gun control mantra can be revived in Congress.
Nah. That’s just tin foil hat stuff. I’m so silly.
Exactly, all this shit does is give people ideas.
Actually it makes paying costumers tired of hollyweird.
If this movie breaks even I will be shocked.
As for the “incels”, if I was looking for a mate today I wouldn’t want any of these harridans. I would give up sex first.
Of course, this is why we have prostitution.
Look good on the outside, but a fugly soul.
Saw a cute chick at the hardware store, enough to give a second look. I usually prefer men for asthetics but shit, I think its just that the availability of good women is just severely lacking.
They are either liberal, fat, or anorexic skeletons, the good ones with some meat, fitness, and alpha attitude are scarce.
More gun laws struggling through Congress and because of some impeachment thing no one cares. So Hollywood releases a violent movie glamorizing just the kind of mentally challenged person who would commit mass violence and the L̶i̶z̶a̶r̶d̶ people who are in charge put the idea of a mass shooting out just in case someone misses the intention. Naw, I just forgot my tin foil hat….. Now that is better. It is all coincidence of course.
I say just don’t go see the movie and maybe save your life and more importantly deny the Hypocrite Hoplophobes of Hollywood more income.
More gun laws struggling through Congress and because of some impeachment thing no one cares. So Hollywood releases a violent movie glamorizing just the kind of mentally challenged person who would commit mass violence and the L̶i̶z̶a̶r̶d̶ people who are in charge put the idea of a mass shooting out just in case someone misses the intention. Naw, I just forgot my tin foil hat….. Now that is better. It is all coincidence of course.
I say just don’t go see the movie and maybe save your life and more importantly deny the Hypocrite Hoplophobes of Hollywood more income.
“More gun laws struggling through Congress and because of some impeachment thing no one cares.”
Thank you for pointing that out.
ALWAYS watch what the left hand is doing.
So the Army and the FBI are telling us to be careful because they want another mass shooting? 🤔
100% agree. They are asking for it. And the media will pay them in game of course.
Fame**
There are some and twisted f_cks on this Earth. Violent “InCels” are on that list, there are such people. They think society owes them sex.
Why would anybody actually WANT to make a movie about one of them?
Edit: ” some SICK and twisted …”
Most of the media focus seem to be from the families of the Aurora shooting victims, asking Warner Bros, if you make violent films, support gun reform. Dont blame the gun, blame the movie maker and media for given attention to Joker like copy cats. Life imitates art.
If Hollywood turned their backs on action-adventure movies with guns used by the good guys and the bad, our rights will be cooked.
Good thing they are addicted to money, because romantic comedies are only gonna attract the female audience.
So, until then, movies are gonna be an action-packed root’in – toot’in good time with guns blazing and stuff moving really fast and exploding.
*Just* the way we like it… 😉
Traditionally that is not what the character of The Joker has been portrayed as.
He wants to see the world burn but not becasue he feels anyone owes him anything.
I will be extreemly disapointed if that is how he is portrayed.
You have got to be kidding me. As if I needed another reason to not see this movie. I didn’t know there was such a thing as incels. We just called them loosers. Couldn’t get laid in a whore house with a fist full of $100 dollar bills. If one pulls put a firearm in the theater, snatch it out of his hand and slap him real hard up side the head. Then kick him in the ass back to the door while he weeps all the way.
^^^ This^^^…..lol, damn straight!👏
Wait a second…a new member of the “community”?? LGBTQ…I?
I always though incels were just gay. Not normal gay, though. Like you ever know someone that was gay and was REALLY angry about it, and would act hyper straight and ultra hateful of anyone gay.
Yes, that is one theory to explain violent homophobia. The idea is that the homophobe‘s are beating up the queer within themselves, externalizing their self hatred by attacking gay people they see in public.
A man, confident in his masculinity, is not threatened by seeing gay people publicly displaying affection.
The problem arises when an individual who has thoughts of gay sex that he is forbidden to act on because of religion or cultural beliefs, feels he must demonstrate to others that he is not gay by beating up gay people.
Many of these are the same people who oppose same-sex marriage, saying it makes them feel ‘sick’, when in fact, they have unresolved same-sex attraction that they have never been taught how to deal with.
We recently had a case where a college football player passing in a car, saw two gay men kissing. He immediately stopped the car, jumped out and smashed both men in the face.
He was, in effect, beating up the gay man hiding inside of him. Sad.
Miner, I think I understand this psychological process, so when Antifa members surround and attack Trump supporters they’re really attacking their own inner Republican. Makes sense.
No, partisan politics is just tribalism in a sophisticated form.
I made basically the same comment. The language may not have been as nice. It got pulled.
I gotta learn to type cleaner.
And get shot by some gung ho security shit who just sees some guy with a gun assaulting another person…
The public education system has been pushing increasingly Marxist or neo Marxist Gramcian ideas for generations. Young men and women are being raised to believe that there is no difference between biological sexes, that gender is a choice, that sexual orientation is both a choice and biologically determined at the same time, that there are no differences among people in general, between ethnicity’s or within ethnicity’s, and that everyone has a right to pretty much everything regardless of hard work or ability.
My generation had a few losers in each high school class, and most of them ended up going to a better college and becoming a successful person anyway while the football star became Al Bundy (who still got a woman). We knew who was hard working and who was lazy. We knew who was smarter and who was maybe not so bright.
The current generation(s) has (have) loads of young women all going for easy sex with unreliable but physically appealing males and not settling down with one appropriate to their station in intelligence, ability, beauty, and virtue, leaving all of the 2nd and lower tier males (as a far as as curb appeal) out in the cold with the same messed up ideology as the females, which is that they are owed the satisfaction of their basic needs by society. You can’t say any more that this person is lazy, or that person is an idiot, or that person does better because they were just born with more IQ or a stronger work ethic or into a better family with more resources because the parents had more IQ or a stronger work ethic.
It used to be a 2nd or 3rd tier female couldn’t get a top tier male and settled for a 2nd or 3rd tier male. Now they get pumped and dumped while the lower tier males languish and get bitter.
As a free market anarchist I don’t believe in the Hobbsian social contract, but if it existed here it is breaking down. If the bargain is that young men behave in exchange for a wife and decent basic life then no one should be at all surprised when those unable to achieve a wife and a decent basic life rebel violently against society.
If anyone wants to know how an incel talks about who should be having sex with who, it looks like this right here.
I’ll show your comment to my wife. I’m sure she’ll find it amusing.
Now, do you have any facts or arguments to actually dispute anything I said?
Also, I don’t think incels acknowledge the existence or importance of competence based hierarchies, or recognize their own position in them.
They are the male counterparts of the women throwing themselves at the (supposed) alpha males. However, where the (supposed) alpha males will sleep with almost any female, most females will not sleep with a man if they think they can get a better one. So where 2nd and 3rd tier females still get action incels get none. They are ideologically, emotionally, and educationally identical to the women who are rejecting them.
You’re not going to find many people here to discuss anything that requires intellect…
Look no further than three comment made by “Tom” above….
These people ARE the problem with society, and when you try to explain their intellectual faults to them, they respond with “bullying”….
Trying to get these backwards rednecks to understand this subject is like trying to get your pet dog to understand the subject.
Suddenly your speech resembles that of Vlad’s…. hmm…
So I guess one should discretely make their own preparations if visiting a motion picture theater?
FFS the more people keep putting this idea out there the more likely it is someone is going to go do it. Stop suggesting it to the whole damn world. I didn’t even remember the damn attack in 2012 or whenever it was where some loonie lit up a theater.
Damn lack of edit button.
Didn’t remember it until news article after news article drudged it back up!
Ummm…don’t go to this?!?
Stay away from “gun free ” movie theatres. The one in Colorado was a gun free zone, guess the criminal didn’t worry about a misdemeanor when planning multiple murders. Who would have thought.
WTF. Really? Frickin Hollywood glorifying these shitbird weirdos. I guess they’ll be redflagged…yeah right. That’s why more CCWs should be out there, ready.
Eh. The problem has far more to do with the news hyping the shootings/shooters. Art has always touched on disturbing topics to some degree that doesn’t make it a celebration of those topics.
Shit, go read some old, and I mean ancient, comedy. Jokes about rape, murder, torture, slavery, sex in general, human trafficking… all sorts of terrible things in JOKES. None of that is meant to say that raping children is funny and literally no one who reads any of it would come away with that conclusion unless they were looking to get offended about something.
The Joker character is no more a “celebration” of what the character does than Dracula is a celebration of drinking blood, Heat is a celebration of bank robbery or Catch22 is a celebration of stop-loss policies in the military.
For me it’s more a question of why anyone would ever find it entertaining to dwell inside the minds of psychopaths. To each his own, I guess…but I don’t understand or enjoy it. I don’t care how well the story is told, that’s not a place I want to be.
Ing: Pardon my brusque response here.
As with many things wants and needs are different.
If you want to stop certain types of people then you need to understand them. If you want to stop gun control from advancing further and start to push it back then you need to start stopping those people in one way or another.
Presenting these kind of topics in an entertaining manner as an “icebreaker” has been standard practice for nearing 3000 years at this point for a singular reason. Because it works. It gets people over that squeamish emotional hump and into the necessary discussion by using art/entertainment to take their mind a place it doesn’t really want to go.
There’s a reason I talk about the psychology of grabbers and their messaging all the time. Because they know and understand this. Meanwhile we refuse to understand or at least use it. Over time that’s why we’re losing, because we refuse to pick up the sword that the enemy is using.
If you want to end up like Great Britain has then, well, you don’t need any of this but make no mistake that IS where you’ll end up eventually.
Geoff:
Does not the mortally wounded serpent bite deepest?
They’ve been doing this since the 1960’s. The tactics haven’t changed a wit. This is the same behavior from basically the same people that made my dad serious consider dropping out of Harvard back in 1967. There is nothing new under the sun on this front, not a whit.
Hilarious really considering the university advisory panel on BLM/Antifa my wife was selected for as a female minority in the sciences. She’ll make a few faculty shit the bed next week.
As for breaking up the country, forget it. It won’t happen peacefully or by force of arms without outside intervention. The reasons are numerous but not matter what happens this ship sails or sinks with all aboard.
If the latter option sounds like one you’d prefer to avoid then it’s time to get to work. I say sometimes that “This one’s for all the fucking marbles. Play accordingly.” but in reality it’s always for all the marbles and has been at least 1797 in this country.
“Shit, go read some old, and I mean ancient, comedy. Jokes about rape, murder, torture, slavery, sex in general, human trafficking…”
The traditional way for new comedians to hone their trade was for them to perform at the university student union comedy circuit. There’s very little of that happening nowadays because the students are so easily ‘triggered’ and take great offense at *anything* even remotely considered offensive.
This is all deliberate actions by the hard-left. Make people so frightened they dare not offend anyone (on the hard left).
This is seriously scary shit they are pulling. Only *their* POV is acceptable to them. This is a forced takeover of America, and conservatives will be a belittled lower class. Less than human.
They are gonna go balls-to-the-wall on this. Since we have *zero* interest in accepting their twisted and sick idea of what America should be, we are kinda trapped. The only rational choice, at this point, to get the ball rolling on peacefully breaking this country up. We must demand respect, because the alternative will be an actual horror-show…
Derp, I didn’t split that reply. I replied to you in my reply to Ing.
I’d also add to that entire post: This is an opportunity for us to pull a Maximus Meridius “Are you not entertained!?” moment in terms of the conversation.
I’m making detailed and complex plans to not see this movie.
My first step, instead of just walking up, buying a ticket and heading on into the theater, I’ll stay home.
I’m still working on the second step.
I’m going to wait to see this one from home, I like watching moives/shows with great character development. I avoid moives (dark places), I just cannot have good situational awarness…or maybe i’ve watched too many chick flicks with my wife.
Same here. Looks interesting, but I think I’ll wait for PPV.
Or Putlocker.
Watch that second step. It’s a doozey. LOL.
This sounds like satire that got taken seriously and snowballed.
Or slow news day?
Like the “okay” sign officially becoming a hate symbol?
Its like a SciFi story about a tear in spacetime resulting in an encroaching alternate universe except here instead of Cthulu devouring our reality we have Clown World putting big floppy shoes and red rubber noses on everyone and the media and politicians are enabling the takeover.
In certain ways it sounds very much like Lysistrata.
I find it both sad that the United States Army advises its personnel to run and hide, with “fight” being only a last resort.
It’s disturbing to me on SO many levels.
Because the U.S. Army, and the rest of the military, believes that soldier’s weapons are owned, stored and issued by the government. Soldiers living on base are required to register all privately owned firearms, store them in the unit’s arms room and need specific permission from their unit commander to keep and bear a privately owned weapon. They are not allowed to carry them on base concealed, can only carry them when transporting them to and from an authorized range and are not allowed to possess them in their government issued housing.
The official policy is to “run” and “hide”, but remember what happened on a train to Paris.
you can keep your guns in your on base housing, but not in the B’s (barracks). I always just kept “all” my guns with my married buddy who lived in housing when I was in the B’s. Sure as shit wasn’t going to put them in a unit arms room to be fucked with by every joe assigned to the arms room and then have to get people to show up to work on the weekends to sign a hand receipt for MY OWN PROPERTY in order to go on a 2 hour range trip and have to do it all again to turn them in. And of course the no carry thing is true. Its astounding how little faith the govt puts in those it charges with millions of dollars worth of equipment and the execution of foreign policy in distant locales that are often in the midst of politically tenuous and delicate situations.
Even if you live in “family” base housing, you still have to register all weapons and get approval from the unit commander to keep and bear arms. In many cases, the commander required married soldiers in on-base housing to keep their firearms in the unit arms room. It is totally up to the unit commander and base policy.
This is one of few things the guard did better. Drill weekends we showed off our personal carry pieces. Then staying at the local training area we had a company swap n shoot with them if things got slow.
It has been a long time since we have been to a movie theater mainly because few if any movies are worth seeing. Even ones that should be good have been produced by left wing directors and actors so have a definite leftist slant.
Then, add in the thugs that have started hanging around movie theaters and the parking lot to assault/rob people.
I don’t need to see it, don’t need to give them any of my money.
C’mon ladies, spread your cooter and stop a shooter.
Oh Goddamnit. 😂
Man if this is what we have evolved into maybe they NEED to just go ahead and blow this bitch up and start over with whatever is left, ths has got to be the most pathetic fucking thing I have EVER read…..
Looks like Strych9 isn’t the only one on the Lysistrata wavelength here.
What in the actual fuck???
If that’s a joke it’s in poor taste.
If it’s not…that is EXACTLY the reason girls don’t want to fuck you.
You sound like a woman Dwight
Why? Becasue I can think & reason?
Is that an attempt at an insult?
If so all you have done is make yourself look stupid.
Post of the day. LOL!
I’ll watch it (or not) when it’s free on cable. Amazing how Hollywood capitalizes on real world tragedy without regard to consequences, and points to “art” and 1st Amendment rights when sensationalizing and glorifying gratuitous violence for profit, and then blames US when some whacked out nut job hears their dog perverted whistle and acts out.
Just sayin.
Uniformed guys with automatic weapons at entrances would stop that.
So would quick and public executions of mass shooters who didnt do themselves.
“Uniformed guys with automatic weapons at entrances would stop that.”
I saw that in a movie. Lots of uniformed guys with automatic weapons all around. Oh -INGLORIOUS BASTARDS. No, thank you.
But imagine a POS standing up in the first row, turning towards the audience, lifting a rifle and aiming it… Only to be cut down by a barrage of handgun bullets from all the armed movie goers.
Sure, because somehow your alleged POS managed to walk into the theater with a rifle.
Have you facepalmed yourself today?
Visualize a theatre without metal detectors or resorting to frisking every person before allowing entry.
Visualize, then, a person of anywhere near adult stature with a partially-disassembled AR–upper inside a moderately-bulky coat on one side, lower on the other, magazine(s) in assorted pockets.
Or, on a smaller scale, visualize an AR-7 disassembled and carried in with even greater ease.
Or, on a more historic scale, visualize a break-down lever-action carbine.
Pick an example.
Now, explain again so that the rest of us can understand why smuggling a rifle into a theatre is somehow incomprehensible.
As John said, no theater I have ever visited had metal detectors. I carry my folder Vz. 58 with 16″ barrel and muzzle brake in tennis racket bag. No need to facepalm.
@Someone,
Again…in what world do you imagine someone just walking in with a rifle without any issue? You’re going to simply walk into the theater entrance with your tennis bag, which is pretty large?
I’ve never visited a movie theater within the past ten years that allows patrons to enter with bags, backpacks, large purses, etc.
@ Someone:
Okay, let me “picture” this. A guy stands up, turns, faces the audience, and starts shooting. Then, a whole bunch of other guys stand up IN THE DARK and start shooting back. How many other people do you suppose will “catch” the stray bullets??? I think I’ll stay home.
From the first number of times I heard of incels I thought it very strange how the Army, and very specifically the Army, seems to be obsessed with the security concerns incels supposedly create.
Since then, and maybe it’s just observational bias, every single time I’ve heard serious alarm about incels it came from… the Army and Army CID.
I’m not trashing the Army here but they seem to have some weird fascination with incels. Again, maybe my observational bias.
Hmm. That’s true now that you mention it, that’s the only time I’ve ever read about it either. Maybe there’s something about incel ideology that targets the military specifically in some way? Incels are weak men who are rejected by women, so perhaps they are more prone to attack those who women see as attractive. Military personnel, firefighters, LE, astronauts, ect… you know manly professions that weak men resent.
Check the post above from Peter. There’s one angry, military personnel hating beta.
Well, that’s because the Army forces celibacy on their soldiers. Deploys them to the Middle East for 12 months or more at a time. Puts them on a FOB that is 99% male and tells them fraternization is an Article 15 punishment. Occasionally a lucky soldier hooks up with a “desert queen” * For the most part, soldiers are forced into involuntary celibacy.
What about the other branches? Well, the USAF deployments are so short, they hardly notice they are deployed. USN, they are all gay, so whatever (jokes) and the USMC will have sex with anything. So, yeah, the Army is at a disadvantage when it comes to “Incels”.
* – If you are unfamiliar with “Desert Queens” watch this 1 minute video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymrzy2C7Qes
Jokes aside that doesn’t seem to be what they’re worried about at all.
Everything they talk about is Army personnel being targets, or seen as Chads IOW. I haven’t really paid that much attention to it but I’ve never really seen them talk about incels in the ranks.
True, the focus is more on them being targets. I was just having a little fun.
Perhaps the Army, and the other branches, should really reconsider their disarming policies and encourage our soldiers to be concealed carriers. The government paid this lip service a few years ago, but left it to the base commanders for the final decision. Generals and Admirals, being risk averse, find it easier to just say “no”.
I avoid large public gathers. Have for years. Not because of mass shootings, just because lots of things happen in crowds including pickpockets. People can be rude, pushy, smelly, and ignorant of others. Look how they talk in theaters and play with phones.
As for the incels it really sucks to be a loser. Try taking a bath, shaving, buy some nice clothes and read a book or two about how to be a normal person.
And to think, most commentators quoted herein have the same right to vote as responsible adults…; plus the fact that this story is thrown out there by the author and website owner to catch such reckless comments. If the owners of “The Truth About Guns” website are actually interested in making “gun owners” think and speak like Neanderthals they are succeeding.
Aren’t most all theaters gun free zones? Why then, would anyone have anything to fear?
Of course, this warning, coming from an organization that almost universally doesn’t trust its members to carry personal firearms to work.
I will be staying home. Its a mass shooting waiting to happen. Our movie theaters ban carrying weapons. I saw Downtown Abbey this week and there was not one cop anywhere on the premises. I will not take the chance to see this Joker Movie though. Such a shame because the movie is rated a whopping 9.5 out of 10 and very,, very few movies get that high a rating. I guess I will just have to wait until it comes on Netflex.
I like much of the DC Comics and Marvel Comics inspired movies and TV shows. Not all, there’s some crap like this Joker movie looks to be. Most of it though is real good check brain at door and enjoy the ride stuff.
However ……
Gave up on movie theaters as the prices and the volume rose to crazy levels. If they aren’t bleeding my wallet, the volume was bleeding my ears. Complain to the theater manager and they were full of excuses on both counts. So I let them know that I had been a serious movie goer. I mean for years I’d try to catch a movie a week and if I couldn’t, I’d make for it on long weekends.
So I just gave up, too much money and no longer enjoyable. Add the gun ban in theaters, and suddenly I was persona non grata anyway.
I’m paying attention to what some people I know do. High speed internet connection, a VPN, Torrent downloads and streaming services too. A big TV and a home theater sound system. Many no longer even bother with cable TV.
One guy was telling me they bought a movie style popcorn popper, scaled down for home use.
If you go to lots of movies or wish you still did, the cost of all that movie theater ticket and food expense could be paid off in a year of watching on your own home setup.
Darn it, I do miss BlockBuster Video stores!
I go to the movies only for the Big Ones, such as Marvel Avengers stuff. The rest I wait for to watch at home. Haven’t bought a DVD in years. Haven’t done PPV, Netflix, Redbox, or such for well over a year now.
Putlocker has everything, both movies and TV shows. Legal to stream in the U.S. Just not legal to download your own copy, so just stick to streaming.
“..Legal to stream in the U.S. Just not legal to download your own copy..”
I don’t think you know how a computer works..
You’re right, they’re just loud, it’s not good theater sound, it’s just loud as all hell. I could put together a home theater system for minimal that would beat the living hell out of any movie theater. Last time I went to one, there were more people f’in around on their phones than watching the movie. I don’t need to pay to sit with idiots like that.
You’ll appreciate the irony that the next moral panic is a Batman movie.
Bythe Batman “panic” are you referring to the WB Execs and the low box office?🤣
What a bunch of bull crap.
Blame a movie no one has seen for what might or might not happen.
This country is turning out nothing but a bunch of sissies.
Men with no nuttz go crazy and kill over a movie no one has seen yet.
Yah sure and Im secretly the Pope.
It already did happen some years back in Aurora, Colorado.
Yeah, so now in 2019 we’re going to have PSAs from the TPTB telling to “be careful out there” when going to the mall or movie theater?
Whowuddathunkedit if somebody from today traveled back in time only 20 years and said we’d be having daily threat assessments for mass shooter events. But that gunz for your own protection in public were also frowned upon, so please shelter in place, peasants.
For the children.
Tin foil hat time; the Aloha Snackvar types have ran out of money and numbers, and that whole “Alt-right neo Nazi” movement never had the numbers or credibility to get off the ground like the main stream media hoped, so now we have to be afraid of angry weirdos on the internet so we’ll give .Gov a bigger budget and greater overreach for the illusion of safety. Gotta get them taxpayer dolla-dolla bills somehow.
Well, they gotta keep us scared of something, that’s their job.
There is no incel threat. It’s just another case of leftists seeing an insult and thinking it means “everyone I don’t like”. The ONE criminal that was supposedly part of an “incel” conspiracy? Guy was married.
If only there was a way you could pay for sex…
You don’t pay them to have sex with you, you pay them to leave when you’re done.
Greatest post ever!!!
Oh good, reason number 6,495 not to see this movie.
I remember a time when I felt hopeless in attracting women. But then I decided to focus on something else, getting my body in shape. I figured if that was they thing about me that prevented me from having relationships then I could change that. So I did.
Then I started putting myself in social situations where I could just have a good time without caring about getting laid. That soon wasn’t a problem anymore.
The less you “need” something to happen, the more likely that it will.
I think most of these “incels” have probably grown up without a father in their life to teach them and be an example of how to handle and overcome failure. Yes, it is possible for most boys to grow into men in spite of this deficiency, but not all.
Ah yes the Army. Issue our troops millions of dollars worth of fighting vehicles, machine guns (heavy, medium, and light), explosives, mortars, rocket launchers, and assault rifles but get all rustled in the jimmies if said troop carries a semi auto 9mm they bought because some risk averse officer can’t see the lunacy in his decision to ban concealed carry by troops.
It used to be only hysterical moms bought into these ridiculous panics. Now the military and police are buying into it. Pathetic.
The movie:
I’ve been to a theater once in the last ten years and that was part of a birthday gift from a female friend. I have lost any desire to feed the Holywood beast. They can’t seem to develope much of anything all that creative anymore. Everything is just re-hashed computer animated crap of older themes. There just isn’t much worth paying to see anymore.
The concept of the incel:
Well, no one is ‘owed’ sex. Not me, not you, not anyone. Young, old, rich, poor…..doesn’t matter.
Now with that said…..
Regardless of who you are, if you are in a relation with someone there WILL be certain expectations. Particularly in marriage. When one partner wants it and the other doesn’t, there will be problems. It works both ways. It is not just lonely males.
People do need to understand the need for love and intimacy. Especially as adults with a need to grow into better, smarter, more stable members of human society. This cannot be denied with creating destruction.
Rejection is a very hard pill to swallow and loneliness is real but can be maturely handled and dealt with. I do think more women say ‘no’ to men but it happens both ways. This is perhaps the single biggest problem with the entire metoo movement and it’s mgtow counter part. We all really do need eachother.
This is a real danger, and many individuals have acted on the twisted motivation of woman hatred because what they see as unfair rejection. Here are just two recent shootings involving incels:
Florida: “In the past three months, investigators have conducted dozens of interviews and reviewed journals, records and electronic files of a gunman who killed two and injured four others at a Florida hot yoga studio.
What they found was months of planning and a history of hatred toward women, Tallahassee Police Chief Michael DeLeo said in a Tuesday afternoon news conference.”
California: “Just before driving to the sorority house, Rodger uploaded to YouTube a video titled “Elliot Rodger’s Retribution”, in which he outlined details of his upcoming attack and his motives. He explained that he wanted to punish women for rejecting him, and punish sexually active men because he envied them. After uploading the video, Rodger e-mailed a lengthy autobiographical manuscript to some of his acquaintances, his therapist and several family members. The document, titled “My Twisted World: The Story of Elliot Rodger”, was made available on the Internet and became widely known as his manifesto. In it, he described his childhood, family conflicts, frustration over not being able to find a girlfriend, his hatred of women, his contempt for couples (especially interracial couples), and his plans for what he described as “retribution”.”
Two examples hardly counts as “many.”
There are plenty of @ssh0les in the world, and all of them will have their own “reasons” for doing what they do. Racism, black supremacy, Islamic fundamentalism, pederasty, necrophilia . . . that’s a list that truly is endless.
I wonder what would happen to the commies who run Hollyweird if nobody paid to see their sh!tty movies.
You have got to be kidding! This is pure balderdash. No way is this “incel” phenomenon an actual one, except perhaps online only. Give unto me a break..please. Thank you.
The ONLY takeaway from this article is that the government really is trying to cause mass shootings….
If anyone needs red flag laws implemented on it, it would be all the alphabet agencies within the government…
It’s time to retake the government from the infiltrators…. If it’s not too late already!!!!!
We seldom if ever go to movies, and are always legally armed. But how do they, “the theatres” plan on stopping a so called nut case who is armed to the teeth and prepared to take lives. He obviously has either gotten his weapons in the theatre already or has them on him. Possibly someone is going to open an outside door and give him or them, the guns necessary for this “rampage”. So if he has the guns on him when entering the theatre, they must have a way of discovering them, like a Metal detector, or an x-ray machine . Then someone must be prepared to engage him or them in a gunfight assuming it goes sideways, how will this work? hand out Body Armor at the candy stand? The entire thin is conceptionally stupid and the insurance company’s must be adjusting premiums accordingly unless this is all just horse crap.
Incel is a made up BS word stop using it.
The first time I ever heard the term “incel” and it’s meaning was in the aftermath of that U.C Santa Barbara shooter back in, what, 2014, I think? In that case, the killer was reported as a self-identified incel.
He was a decent enough looking kid, as my wife assessed. He was 19, in college, surrounded by young available women daily. He drove a BMW and had plenty of disposable income from his parents. His father actually worked in Hollywood and had been an assistant director, as I recall, on the “Hunger Games” films.
How on Earth can you NOT score abundantly at that age with all that going for you??? It makes me think that the core condition with these incels is a psychological disorder, but something separate from and in addition toa concurrent personality disorder. Maybe something physiological? Maybe that delightful surge of neurotransmitters that the rest of felt when approaching that hottie from our Poly Sci class instead triggers an entirely different and possibly painful sensation in these people? Therr must be an explanation. It can’t be just that they are all jerks. Plenty of jerks score, after all, and some even marry.
Welcome to the world of the Ritalin generation.
Someone did not like my reply to George Washington sends me to the “I’m not a Robot” then is unable to open page?? This is the only post it has happened to.. Used edit function to paste the comment in question…………………..
#1 (“I say to Tom to use a shotgun on himself”)
#2 (” You probably sit around masterbating (did you mean mastUrbating?) into your mother’s anus everyday…. Don’t you….fkn pos”)
#3 (“You’re not going to find many people here to discuss anything that requires intellect… Look no further than three (THE?) comment made by “Tom” above…. These people ARE the problem with society, and when you try to explain their intellectual faults to them, they respond with “bullying”)
OK G.W. It’s really difficult to take you seriously about much of anything, first you complain about bullies then proceed to make remarks encouraging suicide and you make a disparaging comment about someones mother so yeah YOU have established that you know something about bullies.. Then you continue with your INTELLECTUAL argument (#3) by placing an ENTIRE group of people (the posters on this site) into ONE basket (sounds familiar) using ONE example posted by ONE individual… To be honest G.W. you sound more like VLAD than someone in search of a serious discussion (all thet is missing are the references to hillbillies and jethros) and as such you will be treated accordingly as just another FAILED TROLL..
(US Army, Local PDs Warn of ‘Incel’ Murder Sprees at Joker Movie Showings)
This whole thing is based on a warning issued by some army intelligence (oxymoron) group with no credible sources of specific threats cited.. With all the “spying” going on today and to be such a major threat you would think there would be more agencies and news feeds with their own sources instead of everyone using one report from the same source….Could it be because the far left is not happy with this particular movie and the media has been banned from the opening?… Gotta love a good Conspiracy theory…
I’m a 36-year-old virgin. You lousy, selfish Americans have *no idea* how bad it feels. Stop pretending to be the gurus of sexual wisdom and own up to the fact that you enjoy being predators.
As predators, you don’t care about the less fortunate. You don’t care about ‘incels’ or virgins. You don’t care about starving children, or factory farm livestock, or the environment, or third-world countries. You pride yourselves instead on winning, subjugating, conquering, and torturing.
So don’t get on your moral high horse about these shootings. There is nothing, at all, that makes you better people than them.
Oh, and stop demonizing sex. Let us be naked in public. Let us show sex on TV. Let us talk about sex at work. And take your pathetic story about the Garden of Eden and the talking snake and shove it straight up your ass.
First, you are such an obvious troll. But I’ll bite anyway, for the benefit of observers.
Look man, nobody wants me naked public. It’s not a good idea. Really.
As for the snake, that’s a true story. The small primates with the most predatory snakes in their environment have the best vision. We developed good vision to see snakes. We needed fruit to power the better eyes and increased brain processing for that. So we added color vision to see when fruit is ripe. That required better eyes and more processing power. Which required more energy. So then we had to get out of the trees and jungle and get out on the savannah to get meat. Then we started throwing things at predators to drive them off their kills and we needed a ballistic computer for that which required even more energy. And we had to cooperate which drove the increased development of reciprocal mechanisms in the brain and BOOM, we’re building civilizations.
So those snakes really did cause us to eat of the tree of knowledge and caused the scales to fall from our eyes so that we could see and caused us to develop knowledge of good and evil.
The story isn’t the empirical description of the origin of objects. It’s the phenomenological description of the origin of experience.
Why should we care about any of those things you say we don’t care about? Incels are the result of a change in the environment which has rendered them unable to compete for mates. They are going to have their unsuccessful genes eliminated and only those people able to successfully reproduce in the current environment will pass on their genes meaning incels will fade out of existence.
Mother nature isn’t hostile. Just unforgiving.
There is nothing wrong with public nudity, so long as you don’t get shit on man-made objects. Speaking about it in your question-begging terms (“It’s not a good idea”) and your vacuous, colloquial phraseology (“Look man,” “Really”) just reveals your conformist ignorance, your lack of scientific literacy, and your incompetence to apply rigorous logic in the form of a sound argument.
Your synopsis about the evolution of eyesight, hand-motor skills, and cooperation does nothing to prove that your Christian god exists.
You ask, “Why should we care about [starving children, tortured animals, third world countries, and the less fortunate]?” So, let me get this straight: Your worldview is essentially predatory, right?
So let me get this straight: you want to see me naked? I am not responsible for any damage to your eyes or psyche.
The information that I shared may not prove that God exists, but that was not my point. My point was that the Genesis creation story is a legitimate version of events. There can never be proof that God exists, or that God doesn’t exist. Believing in God is an act of faith and without that leap of faith the belief is of no value. But the story itself is the story of the awakening of human consciousness as seen from inside the developing human mind.
You are the one characterizing others as predatory, and linking whether or not one cares about any given item or group of items as predatory or not predatory. Or more likely linking whether or not someone does something to provide something for other to whether or not they care and are therefore predatory or not. I do not agree with your use of the term predatory at all. I would maintain that all humans are both predators and pray in nature, and that this is evidenced by our dichotomous brain development, but this has little to do with interaction among our own species or with our politics or socio-political positions.
I do not claim to be morally superior to anyone, and those that do are often responsible for the worst atrocities. I’m reminded of a quote by CS Lewis: “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
There are many differences between me and various mass shooters. For that matter there are many differences between mass shooters themselves. Some are political terrorists, some are revenge killers, Some are angry and hopeless, some are mentally ill in various ways, and I’m sure there are other categories. They are not predators in any way that I understand the term.
Often the best way to help someone is to leave them alone and then they will learn to help themselves. Attempting to help usually just enables people to continue with bad or unproductive behavior and remain dependent on the help of others. Eventually people feel entitled to the help and resent it’s withdrawal. Here again we can apply a well know quote: If you give a man a fish you feed him for a day, but if you teach a man to fish you feed him for the rest of his life.
I would add that as far as celibacy is concerned, most males with an ounce of testosterone will figure out how to get a woman if they can manage to climb the stairs out of their mom’s basement and venture out into the sunlit world beyond. Even with the damage done by the public indoctrination system biology will largely overcome and most will figure it out eventually. But expecting others to deliver you women as if they were pizza with no effort on your part and no attempt to improve your condition or learn the necessary skills or develop the necessary attributes will elicit no sympathy from me.
I am not unsympathetic to suffering in general. I am also not in any way obligated to do anything about anyone else’s suffering, especially at the expense of increased suffering for myself or those closest to me. Neither I nor the women of the world owe you anything.
Being aware of these things and making my own choices about who to help and how and who to sympathize with does not equal praying on my fellow man or make me a predator.
And I am not in any way responsible for the fact that those who are unable to reproduce will be the end of their genetic line while those who are able to reproduce will be able to continue their genes into the future. That’s just nature.
I would recommend anyone having a problem getting a quality woman listen to Jordan
Peterson. He can help you help yourself.
And, I will add that if your worldview *is* essentially predatory, then there’s *nothing* that makes you a morally better person than these shooters. As far as you can tell, they are, at best, *other predators*.
More likely, they think themselves doing the world a favor by decreasing the proportion of cruel people to benevolent people.
If you really want moral high ground over them, I have some advice: Stop being a predator. Stop looking down with cold indifference at the sorrow that virgins endure. If you start caring about their lives, maybe they’ll return the favor and start caring about yours.
I still assume you are a troll.
However if you are sincere then these will be helpful
https://www.jordanbpeterson.com/podcast/
https://www.jordanbpeterson.com/12-rules-for-life/
We have a saying in outdoor sports: You are your own first best source of rescue.
If you choose not to use these resources to help yourself then you have no one to blame but yourself.
https://www.selfauthoring.com/
Jebus, stop blindly repeating what ever trash the main stream media shits out.
A Texas police department, not Federal investigators, while looking at the “Dark Web” (anything on the internet that denies search engines free reign) found what they consider evidence of a threat to one single base in Oklahoma.
The FBI passed on the info, and CID on Ft Sill, Oklahoma decided to issue a warning…. There is so much questionable shit about this entire thing.
If anything happens anywhere besides Ft Sill and the Lawton, Oklahoma area, it is a direct result of the media encouraging it, period.
These incels need to realize that sex ain’t worth all of the trouble most of the time. Sex sometimes leads to relationships, which then leads to marriage. Talk to a few men who’ve been married for 5 or more years; better yet, talk to some who’ve been divorced.
Still want to dip your wick? Find a lady on Backpage, put on a jimmy hat, and do the deed. Then pay her so she’ll leave.
The problem we virgins have with the statement that “sex isn’t all that great” is that having never, ever, ever had sex before, we don’t know if that’s true. In fact, we *expect vicious, competitive males to lie* and say that it isn’t great, to deter their competitors so they can hog more to themselves.
You may deny my statement and insist that it isn’t great. What I see is that on the subject of sex, people in the United States are like little 5-year-olds: dumping each other, cheating on each other, mocking each other’s inadequacy and in general showing no interest in resolving their disputes through cooperative discussion.
We are often told to “just see a prostitute.” Last I checked, prostitution was illegal. Under the new reign of President McFuckhead, it’s now considered human trafficking. Illegal prostitution, additionally, is dangerous: lacking any refined institutional establishment, it’s bound to be swarming with STDs. Not to mention the women might be very poor and doing it to support their crack habit or something — which isn’t something I’d consider a ‘long term solution’ for us virgins.
I find sex to be great enough to be worth the trouble. And it gets better over time within the confines of a monogamous marriage. That is what I think you incel/virgin guys actually want, even if you don’t consciously realize it.
Honestly and correctly identify your shortcomings, fix them, frequent places where decent women congregate, and treat them with respect commensurate with their actions.
Crimson Pirate, you can’t fix all shortcomings. In fact, it’s *laughable* to say everyone hideously unattractive can fix their shortcomings. It’s a flat-out lie. Look at all the genetic disfigurements, deformities and disabilities. Some people have muscular dystrophy, or Down’s syndrome, or dwarfism. What, are we just gonna wave a magic wand and make it go away?
The fact is, when it comes to being sexy, some of us are beyond repair. Earlier, you said, “Mother nature is unforgiving.” Don’t make it look like it’s our fault. Genes, and genetic preference in the selection of an attractive mate, are set in stone *at birth*, and are *by definition* not our fault. That is, unless you really want to put a newborn baby under a guillotine.
Now it’s a red herring to focus on my case specifically. But as an example, I work out five times a week, eat healthy food, don’t smoke or use drugs, and sunbathe every day to get a full-body tan. Despite that, I have thyroid disease, and it’s resistant to medical treatment. I spend half my days feeling like a zombie. Imagine how bored a woman might be with me in a monogamous relationship — stuck with someone who just sits there, yawning and groaning.
Now that’s what happens in a *monogamous relationship*. I find your country’s sanction of universal monogamy to be extremely selfish. It means that if unattractive people want to have sex, they must only do so in the context of such a relationship. But if so, then their partner is *stuck with them*, and has no freedom to look for sexual gratification elsewhere.
In other words, monogamy creates a lame, stupid mechanism whereby ugly people are forced to associate their sexual urges with feelings of guilt.
It would be much better if we could take turns with each other — if I could ask, “Can I have sex with your wife?” without the man’s losing himself in a boneheaded, testosterone-poisoned rage. Still better would be the introduction of sex clubs, inducting members through STD screening and a promise of in-group fidelity. That way, all the people in wheelchairs could actually get some sex for a change, and their attractive benefactors could have fulfilling sex of their own with someone else.
But America is too full of sloping-foreheaded, conformist lower primates to see value in these ideas. I guess we’ll just have to wait for another, smarter country to do it.
You certainly can’t fix anything you don’t try to fix. Many hideously unattractive men make up for that shortcoming by being successful, which is a bigger attractor for females than physical appearance. Let’s face it, incels are mostly men as even ugly women can find a guy willing to sleep with them. So go out and make something of yourself.
Most of the disorders and diseases you list affect a fractionally small percentage of the population and many of those so afflicted (downs, severe autism, etc) have no urge or desire for sex and therefore it is not an issue. You bringing up those diseases and disorders is the red herring. For those that do, my advise would be to seek what they desire among others who are also so afflicted and who should be more understanding and sympathetic.
On top of that advances in medical science, if allowed to advance, will likely eliminate these diseases and disorders within the next 4 or 5 decades through in utero gene therapy. It may be unfortunate for those so afflicted now, but they may take some solace in knowing others will not suffer what they are suffering in the future.
Where do you get the energy to work out 5 times a week and sunbathe if all you can do is sit there groaning and yawning? Do you work?
It is not my country that sanctions (mostly) universal monogamy, it is God or nature. Whichever you prefer. We secrete a number of chemicals and hormones that cause us to bond during sexual activity. This bonding is stronger for the female than the male. We have a hierarchical female controlled mating structure in which males build hierarchies of competence and females peel off the highest males they can from the hierarchy to engage in (mostly) monogamous reproduction with. At the same time both males and females are driven to mate with targets of opportunity which helps contribute to the genetic diversity of the species.
If you ask “can I have sex with your wife”, first of all you should be asking her, not me, as she is a free adult and makes her own choices and by asking me you are treating her as if she some commodity that I own and not a person who has freely chosen to enter into a monogamous relationship with me of her own free will. But when you ask that you are going against the basic biology of our species. My wife and I are bonded due to a host of biochemical factors and psycho-social bonding rituals. Both of our negative reactions to the request are deeply rooted in the creation and evolution of our species.
As for sex clubs, they are not uncommon. However all of the people in them are driven by the same biology and will be attracted to the same symmetrical features, hip to waist ratios, reproductive indicators, and indicators of success as anyone you might meet out in public. In fact, in my experience they have higher standards than the general population and wouldn’t let a fat, bald, guy like me in the door. I was however, able to meet, date, court, and marry a woman in the general population. So sex clubs may not solve you problem.
Sorry for the split reply. I am at work and got called away. I work in healthcare and have observed that many wheel chair bound people had no issue finding love, which is really what this all about. Even those whose conditions were such that they were unable to perform sexually were able to meet women and get married.
The key seems to be that they were successful people getting on with their life despite what ever tragedy befell them and not self pitying people who sat around doing nothing but bemoaning their situation.
America is not the problem, and I doubt if you will find a country that is smarter that will bang it’s collective head against human biology. Chinese, on average, score 1-2 standard deviations above people of European extraction and they are fully accepting of the realities of biology.
I think your best bet is to get out there and meet women, maybe at the gym since you work out a lot, and talk to them like human beings, not objects placed in the environment for your use like public toilets.
Even for average guys it is mostly a numbers game. You have to talk to a lot of women, ask out a lot of women, get rejected by a lot of women, and date a lot of women before you will find one that will put up with you. It doesn’t really matter if putting up with you is putting up with a thyroid disorder or putting up with wanting to go to the range or go fishing every time you have a day off.
Crimson Pirate, after I was beat up and bullied in middle school, I locked myself in my room in ninth grade and taught myself quantificational logic. I learned the art of correct reasoning while the other kids got wasted and had sex. Quantificational logic defines what sound deductive reasoning is. It underlies all modern science and the mathematics upon which modern science is based.
You will understand, then, if I analyze your reply in the framework of quantificational logic, as I find that the most expedient way of demonstrating what is wrong with someone else’s reasoning.
In your most recent reply, you use the word ‘many’ three times. I never liked the word ‘many’ — it is a subjective guarding word with little quantitative meaning, not even giving a definite minimum value as the word ‘most’ does. In quantificational logic, we have two notions: *all* and *some*. Technically, ‘some’ includes the possibility of ‘just one’. But that’s beside the point: in quantificational logic, there is no ‘many’ in between.
Thus, you say ‘many’ disabled people become successful. ‘Many’ disabled people lack sex drive. ‘Many’ disabled people find love. But how many is ‘many’? Two?
You begin your reply by saying, “You can’t fix what you don’t try to fix.” In using this bit of rhetoric to paint the image of a lazy, laggard incel, you’ve entertained what’s called the fallacy of denying the antecedent.
In correct logical reasoning, we reason from the antecedent to the consequent. “My teacher wrote ‘Nice job’ on my homework, so she must be impressed with me.” Occasionally, people are led astray and reason from the negative (or ‘denied’) antecedent to the negative consequent. “Lately she hasn’t been doing that, so she must now think poorly of me!” Obviously false.
Here’s another example. Bleach contains sodium hypochlorite, so you shouldn’t drink bleach. But *paint stripper doesn’t* contain sodium hypochlorite. Should you drink paint stripper?
Therefore, back to your comment: “You can’t fix what you don’t try to fix.” The antecedent is that you don’t try, and the consequent is that you can’t fix it. You *clearly intend to suggest* that if you *do* try (the ‘denied’ antecedent), then you *can* fix it — which is flat-out, painfully false.
People with horrible disabilities cannot just wave a magic wand and make themselves sexy, no matter how hard they try.
You say that in utero gene therapy might wipe out all these disabilities in as little as four or five decades. I find that claim extraordinarily tenuous, especially given the hysterical scientific illiteracy of the general population and their consequent failure to understand the importance of genes and self-directed evolution to the progress of the human race. I doubt they would even consent to these treatments if they were offered.
You criticize the self-proclaimed incels who “sit around and do nothing,” again painting a convenient portrait of the lazy, laggard incel, and elsewhere ask that if I have thyroid disease — whose crippling, unbearable symptoms can mimic ‘guilty laziness’ — how do I manage to work out five days a week? That may have to do with the body’s short term release of cortisol and adrenaline during a workout. I certainly cannot have that kind of adrenaline running throughout the day.
You say that God or nature (“whichever I prefer”) sanctifies monogamy, which I also believe to be false. I detest the use of the masculinized proper noun ‘God’ to refer to the workings of the universe, and prefer to keep as far away as possible from this country’s ridiculous, asinine religious faith, and the shame it puts on me for wanting to do such things as talk about sex at work. More to the point, you attempt to justify nature’s ‘sanctification of monogamy’ by appeal to the hormones oxytocin and phenylethylamine, both of which contribute to the feeling of being in love.
Phenylethylamine supposedly lasts about a year and then it wears off. After that, oxytocin supposedly takes over. The only time I ever fell in love was in high school — I dreamed about her every night — and it was unrequited. Even then I found myself attracted to other girls, while I was in love. Now you might say that had I successfully gotten into a relationship, that would change.
But that is *completely irrelevant* to my proposal. What I’m proposing is that attractive men and women have *charitable sex* with people whose ugliness is beyond repair, *even if* they are *not* biologically in love with those people. It should be scarcely more difficult than taking out the trash, even though you’re not biologically in love with the trash bag. These attractive men and women could turn it into a kinky game while still remaining in love with those from whom they derive *their own* gratification.
Further, it does not have to be, as your continued imagery of the ‘lazy, laggard incel’ suggests, as free and unearned as a delivery of pizza. The sex could be given in return for decent behavior, or hard work and generous deeds.
For example, you ask, “Do I work”? I had to bust my butt through college making 43 straight A’s, and I earned a dual degree in computer science and philosophy. I’ve also volunteered at a homeless shelter and picked up over a thousand miles of roadside litter. I’m *constantly* trying to be productive, even on weekends. You’d think that after all my hard work, an itty bitty drop of real sex might have fallen on my table.
You claim that in asking, “Can I have sex with your wife?” I’m ignoring her preference and treating her as a commodity. And there you go again with the fallacy of denying the antecedent! Here, the antecedent is that the person in question is *you*, and the consequent is in my asking you for permission. The ‘denied’ antecedent is that the person in question is *your wife* (i.e., not you), and the wrongly inferred consequent is that I’m *not asking her* for permission.
Having committed that fallacy, you go on to talk about ‘treating women as sex objects’ — a phrase that means *nothing whatsoever*. I have had long debates about what it means to ‘treat a woman as a sex object’ and they never succeeded in defining it in terms of observable behaviors toward women. It’s just a fashionable phrase that lousy, braindead American conformists pass around amongst each other, not giving one whit of care as to its truth value, because they are too stupid and selfish to care about truth. They simply get some kind of weird buzz when they accuse a fat nerd of ‘treating them as a sex object’. That’s it.
I find it personally offensive, as we ‘incels’ often masturbate against household objects in the absence of women. Like I’m guilty (again) for thinking that my sock, or my underwear, or my blanket, or my pillow is a woman, and I’m ‘treating her as if she were an object’.
I don’t know how much more I can continue this discussion. You can see how long it is becoming. I *will* say that you do put a lot of thought into your writing. That places you above a lot of stupider people I’ve had to tear down on the Internet. But I’m still convinced that there is *something* about your thought process that is predatory toward us ‘incels’ and virgins. In fact, it has become apparent to me that *almost everyone* is predatory toward us — even if it manifests itself in extremely subtle ways. That, to me, is my kind of Matrix — having to live with the sense that behind everyone’s friendly facade is the predatory instinct of sexual selfishness.
That’s kind of odd since quantificational logic itself is a well known and defined fallacy.
I use words such as ‘many’ because my observation is anecdotal; I have observed the phenomena in person in my profession, but have not done and am not aware of any formal research studies of the topic of sexual activity or marriage among physically disabled or wheel chair bound people. I have no specific quantity to provide. I have neither the time nor inclination to search for any such studies that may have been done. ‘All’ is clearly incorrect and ‘some’ is inadequate to express the idea that ‘many’ do accomplish the very things you are complaining about not being able to accomplish, and that the most important part of that accomplishment seems to be simply making the effort.
‘Most’ non disabled ordinary appearing normative males will ‘likely’ inform you that they made hundreds or thousands of passes at girls and later at women and that the rate of success was initially fractional and eventually improved as the male developed experience, skill, and confidence. You apparently locked yourself in your room and taught yourself a logical fallacy when you should have been out there developing the skill and gaining the experience.
You can’t fix what you don’t try to fix is an observation of reality. I have clinically observed ‘many’ people with your kind of attitude about ‘many’ different things. The one constant is that regardless of the topic, those complaining about it will find excuse after excuse to simply not attempt to correct the issue. They will disregard good advice and steadfastly refuse to help themselves, expecting or demanding that others help when others really cannot. As ‘all’ clinicians eventually learn, you cannot help someone unless and until they are willing to put the work in to help themselves.
The co dependent unwillingness to help oneself is a reality of human psychology, and exacerbates the fact that hierarchies of competence will displace or dispossess those that are incompetent or refuse to become competent. This is, in fact, why we developed a virtually unlimited number of hierarchies of competence, because it minimizes the number of dispossessed as very few people are incompetent across all possible competencies.
We are seeing an artificial increase in the dispossessed today in any given area due to government interference in the free markets across the spectrum of human action causing misallocation of resources and sending incorrect signals and incorrect information to individuals leading to an artificial increase in dispossession
If you do try to fix problems then you may be able to fix them, or you may not. Failure may result from any number of variables. Success also may result from any number of variables. But the one variable that must be in place is that you must try. If you do not try to fix problems then you certainly will not be able to fix them. That’s not a logical fallacy. That is truth.
People with horrible disabilities have successfully overcome that. Sometimes with non disabled people, and sometimes by courting other disabled people, which is something worth considering for them.
As new gene therapies come online those who do not make use of them will eventually be out competed by those that do and will be eliminated from the gene pool naturally. Despite your continuing insults to Americans, readers here, and the general population at large, I highly doubt anyone would refuse an in utero cure for downs or autism or cystic fibrosis or spina bifida if one were available. Apparently you are also not familiar with the Flynn Effect; IQ increasing globally over the last century when all predictions were that it should fall. This is the reason IQ tests have had to be continually renormed to keep the average at 100. If you gave a person today an IQ test from 1950 they would score on average 1-2 standard deviations about what the score was in 1950. People are not as dumb as you think and they are getting smarter.
The disabled have been with us for millenia. Disabilities today are much less of an obstacle to a normal life than they have ever been in human history. I have never heard someone with downs or severe autism complain about involuntary celibacy. Usually we have to watch them closely in group environments because they are very voluntarily not celibate when they see the opportunity and a pregnancy in that population could be medically problematic.
When I began my career we had the same problem with CF kids. At that time max lifespan for them was about 20. They were burning like candles and they knew it. So in their teens they were always looking to hook up and mainly aimed at other CF kids, as normal kids were not as open to early sexual activity. Now the lifespan of a CF patient is well into their 40s and advancing and we no longer see the promiscuous behavior among the teens.
‘Most’ of the “incels” I have encountered are not disabled, so focusing on the disabled is just a distraction. An entertaining distraction, but still not focused on the main problem.
As to your particular case, have you tried to ask women out? Have you read any books on the subject? Have you studied Game Theory or visited any Pick Up Artist web sites to learn and develop skills? Have you tried dating apps or web sites? Have you considered joining Adult Friend Finder or Ashley Madison? You may well find someone in those groups who would have sex with you sympathetically. Have you sought therapy? There are sex therapists, and even in places where prostitution is generally illegal a psychologist may be able to prescribe sex with a therapeutic provider. People have suggested ordinary prostitution, which you dismiss as illegal. But it is not illegal everywhere. Perhaps a trip to Vegas or Amsterdam would provide some relief. And even where it is illegal I think violating the law is less likely to cause problems than asking the rest of us to violate basic human biology.
To be clear I am not sanctifying or justifying biology, I am merely informing you of it. Biology has it’s laws just as physics does and asking a human couple to share if they are not predisposed to do so is not going to be any more successful than trying to defy the law of gravity. Also, if you continually insult people, their faith, and their culture you are not likely to get either help or sympathy from them.
Being in a relationship does not make you not be attracted to attractive people. But you exercise some self control because you have a contract with your partner, and because other people are individuals and have the same rights you do. Just because I thought Jessica Alba was hot some years ago doesn’t mean that I deserved sexual access to her or that she was obligated to provide it. And even if she was freely willing it would violate my contract with my wife. Humans have a right to associate with who they want to, and avoid who they do not want to.
If you are a successful person as you state then, again, this is not typical of self proclaimed incels. It sounds like you have the resources to be successful with women in spite of your self perceived shortcomings. Without knowing you, it sounds like you just need to put the work in.
You are the one that specifically asked “Can I have sex with your wife.” It is not at all a logical fallacy that it is the woman who must make the choice., and not her partner. To ask me for permission completely denies her agency and is symptomatic of your overall view of women as a commodity.
Note that I did not use the term sex object. We could define it as interest in the female primarily for sex and not for pair bonding or relationship building or reproduction. But it is a term you inserted, not me. The issue with the term sex object is that it is subjective and based on the females point of view. The females point of view changes based on the attractiveness of the male she is dealing with. Generally women are fine being treated as a sex object by someone they find attractive enough and their willingness to be treated as a sex object diminishes as the attractiveness of the male diminishes.
That is not the same as treating women as a commodity, meaning you ask “Can I have sex with your wife?” the same way you might ask to borrow my car, or a DVD, or a cup of sugar. My wife can decide for herself whether or not she wants to have sex with someone, regardless of my feelings about it. It might be a contract violation but it is ultimately her choice.
Have you considered homosexual activity? Due to the higher overall testosterone the gay community is notoriously promiscuous and much more open to sharing partners from a committed relationship. They are also much more given to quick casual encounters than heterosexuals are.
I understand about not continuing this discussion. It has gotten long. We are not going to come to agreement on this. I have offered a large amount of help and options but ultimately you must undertake action yourself. We are not predatory, and I do not see how typical human mating behavior can be characterized as such. Nor are we selfish. Our entire evolution and the development of civilization was spurred by the establishment of the mating patterns you see repeated across the vast majority of human civilizations.
I’ll leave with a quote from Sean Connery from The Name Of The Rose: “If you hope to master nature you must first learn to obey it.”
As a female then don’t bother with the movie because it’s just full of angry Hollywood actors or option 2, if I do decide to see it make sure I don’t end up in a seat next to some fat smelly teletubby looking dude who just saw the light of day for the first time.
If that diabetic Joker fan were not to shoot up a theater but simply to hang himself, how would you feel?
As Christian Slater famously pointed out, girls he never spoke to would be saying “Why, why, why”
https://youtu.be/MSzz-t7ywVM?t=117