Additional information continues to trickle out in the “Rust” movie on-set shooting death of director of photography Halyna Hutchins and wounding of the film’s director Joel Souza. It seems that Baldwin wore dual hats as both the star as well as the producer of the film. Authorities now acknowledge the obvious: the prop gun “loaded with blanks” was indeed a real gun that was loaded with at least one live round. And there’s more . . .
In movies, the producer supervises all manner of the movie’s production. Again, Baldwin was producing this western period piece. Someone approved the use of live firearms (as opposed to inert prop guns or blank firing replicas) on the set, and the producer – Baldwin -was ultimately responsible for approving that decision either tacitly or directly. And someone on the set brought live ammunition to feed that real firearm, a cardinal safety sin.
As far as a criminal investigation, Yahoo News reported that Baldwin was interrogated by Santa Fe County Sheriff’s investigators and later released. As of now, no criminal charges have been filed . . .
What has happened to Baldwin? –
The 63-year-old Emmy-winning actor was interviewed by detectives investigating the incident.
The sheriff’s office said Baldwin had attended voluntarily, had answered questions and provided statements and then left. He was not arrested.
A spokesman for the sheriff said the investigation is ongoing.
Baldwin tweeted Friday that he was “fully cooperating” with the police inquiry.
Also, some of Alec Baldwin’s old tweets are not aging well. He showed his hostility towards gun rights, the NRA, and Dana Loesch back in 2018 . . .
I see that @DLoesch wants to “take back the truth.”
And she doesn’t care how many dead bodies she has to step over in that pursuit.
The Second Amendment is not a moral credit card that buys you all the guns you want.
That law needs to be rethought.— AlecBaldwin(HABF) (@AlecBaldwin) March 5, 2018
And then there is this from Baldwin a year earlier.
I wonder how it must feel to wrongfully kill someone…https://t.co/WE6QsAAXGI
— AlecBaldwin (@AlecBaldwln____) September 23, 2017
CNN reports that the local prosecutor’s office is evaluating the evidence . . .
It is unclear if charges will be filed in the death of Halyna Hutchins, the New Mexico district attorney’s office said in a statement.
New Mexico First Judicial District Attorney Mary Carmack-Altwies’ office said in the statement sent to CNN that they are still in the preliminary stages of the investigation.
“We will look into all facts and evidence of the case with great discretion and have further information at a later time. Our thoughts are with all affected by this tragedy,” Carmack-Altwies’ statement said.
Finally, Yahoo News reported on an interview Baldwin did promoting his new flick, comparing it to one of Clint Eastwood’s best films. Yahoo News has it . . .
Baldwin compared “Rust” to “Unforgiven” in an interview, telling The Hollywood Reporter he was ready to saddle up for a Western because his skills including “my horseback riding, my gunplay” were “right at my fingertips at all times.”
So a Hollywood hypocrite who has spent so much of his adult life campaigning for gun control for the little people brags that his skills including “gunplay” are right at his fingertips. Maybe he was too busy working on his social media game to learn the four rules of gun safety.
Stay tuned.
That karma, sho is a bit*h, eh Baldwin!?
POS A.Baldwin had no issues making fun of 45 on SNL shortly after the Parkland deaths.
“Watch Alec Baldwin’s Donald Trump Talk Gun Control on ‘SNL’ – Rolling Stone” https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-news/watch-alec-baldwins-donald-trump-talk-gun-control-on-snl-126587/
Let’s see SNL and the leftards yuck it up now.
Karma. Isn’t that what you call all those unvaxed morons that died from covid and left their kids orphans? All the firearms in the world and you are still gonna get your butt kicked by a virus. Good riddance.
Oh wait, I remember karma. That’s what happens when you vote for a GOP prez. The last two gave us 9/11 and covid. What a track record.
Uhh COVID came from China whim the dems want to be soft on.
9/11 happened because of re ports that were ignored during both the Clinton and early bush admins. That miss Kay in both sides.
Not that any of this matters.
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Involuntary manslaughter?
Shouldn’t have been any live ammunition at the set. Minimum- Manslaughter.
No reason ever on any set on any production of a story for live ammo. Is there more to learn regarding the armorer on set?
“Is there more to learn regarding the armorer on set?”
I’ve seen an un-verified mention that the union armorer walked off the set earlier that day, apparently very unhappy.
If anything good comes from this, perhaps it shut that fat bastard up about gun control for a while…
He’s the producer with all the responsibilities as stated in the article, I’d go more with negligent homicide.
I was just listening to this issue of liability on a radio show. That specific question of “who’s liable” was brought up. The answer was not the producers (of which Baldwin is reportedly one for this movie), but the six production companies that collaborated to fund and produce this project.
Grab your popcorn and watch the sparks fly as each company lawyers up and points fingers around the room at each other as they skitter away from the pending wrongful death lawsuit.
How about the retard who actually held the loaded gun, pointed it at a woman & pulled the trigger?
Any culpability whatsoever?
*crickets*
wrongful death lawsuit for certain.
Someone is now dead. She should not have been made dead.. WHATEVER happened it shouls not have. Wrongful death does not need to establish responsibility as to one or antoher person. All it needs to PROVE is that the victim shuodl NOT have died . In this situation that is a cakewalk.
Bringing live ammo to the set cannot be passed off as “negligent”, had to be a deliberate act. Pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger when you have not ascertained the status of the loading could be called “negligent”, more likely “idiotic and dangerous”, but I’d bet all it is going to cost him s $$.
Possible, but I understand that the burden of proof requires more than simple negligence. That is hard to prove when he did not load the gun but relied upon the armorer to ensure safety. Is he ultimately responsible as the producer? Under civil law, yes, but if the deceased was an employee and not an independent congtractor, he will be protected by the worker’s compensation laws.
And, what kind of insurance does the production itself have covering the shoot?
And, I’m starting to wonder – Baldwin is hated by the little people who are forced to interact with him in Hollywood, could someone who hates him slid a live round in there as retribution for one of his famous pissy-fits?
Maybe, just *maybe*, his shit personality earned him a little ‘payback’… 😉
while the “sabotage’ or “setup” theoiry holds a big bucket of water, HE, Baldwin, is still the ONLY ONE who is directly responsible.
The gun did not kill anyone. SOMEONE had his hands ON that gun, pointed it (never point a gun at anything you are not willing to destroy”.
How’s about “treat ALL firearms as if they are loaded”.
The gun did not kill this woman. The one holding it did, by virtue (vice?) of failing to VERIFY and check again and make CERTAIN it was NOT loaded before pointint it at her…. but we have heard nothing about WHY he was pointing it at her. She was not one of the actresses, she was the head cinematographer. WHY was he pointing it at hER just then? It had notihng to do with the making of the film… she was BEHIND the cameras, not IN FRONT of them. I know twelve year lds who know better than that. Several of them.
I could understand this better if a cast member who was supposed to have a gun pointed at them as part of the scene was shot. What was he doing pointing it at the director of photography ? You point that gun at me on the set and I’m not part of the scene and there will be a problem.
It somehow doesn’t add up. He shot 2 people who were not actors in the scene. What exactly is going on ?
You’ve never seen an action or military movie scene where you’re looking at an actor who’s shooting seemingly in your direction? He’s obviously pointing the firearm at the camera or close to it and not at another actor. You’re likely to find the director of photography behind or very close to that camera.
Don’t take this comment to be any sort of defense of the despicable liar and hypocrite Baldwin. He should be imprisoned and impoverished.
Folks, take a lesson from this. Don’t flap your gums on social media. You could be eating those tweets.
Absolutely zero chance this goes to court.
The film industry is literally the only thing keeping NM alive. You start actually prosecuting actors for accidentally killing every person they point a gun at, you’ll run them off for good.
A.Baldwin is both an actor in AND the producer of this movie. HE made the executive decision to bring REAL FIREARMS ONTO THE SET.
This case will most DEFINITELY be going to a Court.
Once again, zero chance. New Mexico survives on hollywood money. Its gonna take more than one dead Californian to change that.
New Mexico has Sandia Labs, Kirtland Airforce Base, Intel and other corporations, you might be a bit off base. Regarding “hollywood” the governor (Dem) has made it harder on the film industry and pulled back some of the incentives sending many studios back to Atlanta. Marvel who had filmed Thor and Avengers there has moved to Sydney Australia….but yes, I find it hard to see Baldwin being held accountable.
“Regarding “hollywood” the governor (Dem) has made it harder on the film industry and pulled back some of the incentives sending many studios back to Atlanta.”
Did you not see the reaction by the Hollywood people to Georgia passing that election accountability law?
Hollywood made loud noises about pulling out of Georgia after that was signed into law…
Yeah, but an expensive personal liability lawsuit is potentially still on the table.
(Good to see ya again, V….)
Now he knows how it feels to wrongly shoot someone. What an idiot. I hope he gets prison time for 3rd degree murder, manslaughter and illegal use of a firearm.
Better yet, maybe some enterprising prosecutor will use his tweet as evidence of wondering so much that had to actually kill someone.
“Now he knows how it feels to wrongly shoot someone.”
Who may have hated him enough to slide a live round of ammo in there?
Probably anyone he treated like shit sometime in the past, meaning a suspect list in the *thousands*… 🙂
Two big possibilities:
There were labor problems on set, so I could easily see some union props department type sneaking in a live round “to show them why they need us”.
I could also easily see Baldwin himself loading a live one, thinking he was going to play some kind of joke or intimidation game. That’s about his speed, after all.
Baldwin will be successful at identifying some underlying as the person at fault. No criminal charges for Alec. Some prop guy will be charged with some form of negligent homicide.
I hope the families of the deceased and injured come at Baldwin with a civil fury. He brags about his gunplay but ignores the rules of gun safety. Now, a women is dead and her family grieves. Queue the civil attorneys.
Bankrupt his fvck ass…
not gonna happen. NO prop guy was holding the fiirearm when it discharged, Only ONE finger was on that trigger, only one arm and eye were pointing it at her. WHY was he pointing the tgun at her anyway? WHY WHY WHY?
Ego over-runs ability, disaster is result. Hubris is a deadly sin. I pray of all families involved, even Mr. Baldwin
Now will the George Sorso funded prosecutor refuse to indict him??? Stay tuned.
btw
Here is another update.
“A grand jury in coastal Glynn County indicted former Brunswick Judicial Circuit District Attorney Jackie Johnson on a felony count of violating her oath of office and hindering a law enforcement officer, a misdemeanor.”
“Ex-Prosecutor Accused Of Interfering With Investigation Into Ahmaud Arbery’s Killing”
https://www.npr.org/2021/09/02/1033809949/ahmaud-arbery-former-prosecutor-indicted-misconduct-georgia
Chris in KY,
Thank you for posting that. Now, let’s see if they throw the book at her during sentencing.
You are very welcome. It’s my job.
big(smile)
Now if we could just free Kyle…
If the powers that be aren’t able to control the spread of facts pointing towards Baldwin’s culpability- the left will turn on him. They eat their own without compunction, and never let a good tragedy go to waste…
Waste of time praying for the likes of Baldwin. He will never take responsibility and will likely blame the gun industry, the (now mostly defunct) NRA, and gun owners for this. F him.
Baldwin should be held up as the poster child for violating Jeff Coopers rules.
Picture of Baldwin and text above and below. “This is an idiot” No sympathy and no excuses for him, his mug plastered everywhere.
The very word ‘Baldwin’ being changed to mean “idiot” for all time. His ego sustains him, drive him from our society with humiliation, hammer his ego into dust.
“The very word ‘Baldwin’ being changed to mean “idiot” for all time.”
“He pulled a Baldwin”.
I kinda like that… )
I’m on board.
I stated earlier that I was sure at least one of these was true.
1: The gun being fired was on camera
2: He did something he knew he shouldn’t do
3: The people shot did something they knew they shouldn’t do
Looks like 1 and likely 2 as well.
As much as I detest Baldwin and his phony wife who’s as much an authentic Spaniard as Liz Warren is an authentic Indian, in fairness it’s not appropriate to be invoking the rules of safe gun handling. They were making a movie. They were portraying characters in a scenario where said characters were firing guns at one another. Doing this while following Cooper’s laws is impossible. Alec Baldwin is no more qualified to handle a gun than to be a CIA analyst; they hand him a prop and yell Action! This is going to boil down to a police investigation as to who brought live ammunition to a place where there should not have any within a mile.
As much as I can’t stand that military-grade imbecile, this is probably the most sane response I’ve read so far.
All things considered, as much as I can’t stand Baldwin, it really will be rough to carry this for the rest of his life. Baldwin killed someone and a family lost a mother/sister/daughter. It’s rough all around and really is a tragedy. Very, very sad.
If that happened to any of us, we would spend the rest of our life asking ourselves “what if I had cleared the weapon” ever hour of every day.
As much as we traditionally cry about the sanctity of human life, the comments here are kind of disappointing.
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2021/10/no_lets_not_be_kind_to_alec.html
Life is tough. Being an idiot makes it tougher. Stop enabling idiots.
“If that happened to any of us, we would spend the rest of our life asking ourselves “what if I had cleared the weapon” ever hour of every day.”
Yeah, that’s why I make absolutely sure any gun I am handling is either clear or pointed downrange and do not point gun at other people. I’m not going to ask that because I have cleared the weapon.
It is entirely possible to make a movie while still following the rules of gun safety. Compared to what is done in the film industry every single day, this is not even that hard. They did not. A person died.
Jim from LI,
Yeah, OK . . . and you would be ABSOLUTELY wrong. First of all, someone who REALLY practices The Four Rules treats ALL weapons (yes, even BB guns and “prop” guns). Prop guns are frequently “actual” guns, and they use various kinds of blanks while filming. They were OBVIOUSLY real guns in this instance. While many “prop” guns have barrel restrictions that prevent firing actual projectiles, not all do (sometimes, real ammunition is used for effects). In this case, we KNOW the SA revolvers used in this case were “real” unrestricted revolvers – we know this because (i) the crew had been using them on break for plinking and target practice, and (ii) Alec Baldwin killed the cinematographer (and wounded the director) with it. Hollywood has strict rules about “prop” guns, and at least a few of these rules were ignored. Finally, I don’t give a rat’s @$$ what else happened, someone put a firearm in Baldwin’s hands, and he DID NOT CONFIRM THE CONDITION, OBVIOUSLY pointed it at someone (actually, in Hollywood, it is relatively simple to get camera views making the gun appear to be pointed directly at the camera, without pointing it at another human being).
Don’t make excuses for this anti-2A, loudmouth nitwit of an @$$hole, or for HIS production company, or for the unqualified armorer HE (or his production company) hired, or the assistant director who handed him the gun (obviously without confirming condition), and told him it was “cold”. He’s an incompetent, loudmouth buffoon, ignored safety rules, and paid the price. Don’t make excuses for him, especially when it’s obvious you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Having said that, I pray for the dead woman, her family, and, yes, even for that s***weasel Baldwin.
“I wonder how it must feel to wrongfully kill someone…https://t.co/WE6QsAAXGI
— AlecBaldwin (@AlecBaldwln____) September 23, 2017”
Well, Alec, how does it feel?
Yes Alec, do tell…..
He’s a liberal lefty that doesn’t believe in people owning firearms so he probably feels nothing…….. He is just another white liberal privileged piece of Sh*t!
If white liberals are privileged pieces of sh!t and gun rights people are white conservative racist morons.
So, Bruce, what are you? A non-white racist moron, or a non-conservative racist moron (but embrace the healing power of “and”!)??
If you don’t have anything intelligent to say (and you obviously don’t), go spew your bile somewhere else – moron.
What a shame.
Halyna Hutchins was hot.
Saw the pic, indeed she was…
From all that I’ve seen, Alec Baldwin is a despicable human being. His smug arrogance has been on display for years to demonstrate that statement.
That said, I feel sorry for him in that he will know that he killed innocent human being.
I heard on the radio that the union representing the prop people said that none of their members were on set overseeing the scene being filmed. I see a huge lawsuit in the making…
“I heard on the radio that the union representing the prop people said that none of their members were on set overseeing the scene being filmed.”
Now, that is *interesting*.
Doesn’t Hollywood make a huge deal out of only using union labor on-set?
Maybe Baldwin was trying to save some money by filming in a non-union state…
Hollywood is all about creating illusions. The union labor only thing? That’s an illusion too.
Screw that guy. I’ll save my sympathy for the dead and wounded and their families. I hope Alec Baldwin dies in a fire with a dick in his mouth.
Apparently, they had walked off the job earlier after other safety failures, including the unintentional discharge of two blank rounds by Baldwin’s stunt double from a gun that had been declared “cold”. They were replaced with non-union workers.
Media keep using the term “prop gun” like it’s something esoteric as opposed to a gun that is a prop. And also, of course, like it’s something esoteric that they now need to explain to the rest of us rubes for our own good. Either stupid or trying to cloud the issue in Baldwin’s favor.
Prop guns are specially designed or modified so that they can fire blanks but not live ammo with projectiles. The critical feature is a severe restriction in the barrel to constrain the propellent gases and increase the linear deflagration rate of the propellent. It simply is not possible to fire any ammunition except blanks from a prop gun.
This is a critical safety feature.
Baldwin went full fucktard.
That’s patently false, you must be a typical fudd, high on your own farts. But go ahead and take the bait, play semantic games you think you can win, contribute to the inevitable pissing away of this teachable moment.
Let us see you write the equation for the linear deflagration rate of the propellent, then you can claim expertise.
If that is false, then the definition of a “prop gun” would be “a gun”. From what we hear now, Baldwin was using a real gun loaded with real ammo, absolutely nothing “prop” about it. The question should be “WHY?”
Elmer,
DEFINITELY not always true. A “prop” is ANY item used in filming or onstage, whatever it is. Most prop guns have barrel restrictions, but that only started in the 70s, and isn’t “universal” even now.
Actual “Hollywood” (usually all-union) productions have very strict rules about use of any firearm (even one with a barrel restriction, or even an non-functional prop gun). Most “Hollywood” production has escaped KKKalifornia, partly for that reason.
Here little proof that show how unsafe thing where at movie shoot with co start firearm training.
Jensen Ackles, who stars in the film alongside Baldwin, addressed gun preparation on set just days before the tragedy. While attending a Supernatural fan event last weekend, the actor gushed about how excited he was to be starring in a Western film. Ackles said they’ve been shooting for two weeks and “going non-stop.”
“I’ve got a 6 a.m. call tomorrow to have a big shootout. They had me pick my gun, they were like, ‘Alright, what gun would you like?’ and I was like, ‘I don’t know?’ and the armorer was like, ‘You have gun experience?'” he told the crowd in the resurfaced video. “I was like, ‘Uh, a little.’ And she’s like, ‘OK, well, this is how you load it, this is how we check it and make sure it’s safe.’ I’m like ‘OK.’ She’s like, ‘Do you want a hip draw or a cross draw?'”
The armorer said she was “going to put some blanks” into the gun, and told Ackles to “fire off a couple rounds” towards a hill. Ackles nailed it because he knew what he was doing all along. “And no kidding, she goes, ‘You’re an a******.'”
Got a link on that?
72 Million honest Gun owners slept well the other night…One know it all, high and mighty rich condescending prick who plays Cowboy and brags about “gunplay” accidentally kills someone. Hope he is haunted forever and retires.
I think “live” means something different on sets than it does to normal people. I’ve seen people talking about any gun with a charge in it- i.e. a blank- as “live” on sets. This makes no sense to me but, then, not much in hollywood does.
One thing we can all agree on, Alec Baldwin is officially a “killer”.
A ‘lady-killer’, at that.
Hopefully this will be a humbling experience for the arrogant actor. Maybe his brother can introduce him to Jesus and he can learn a little bit about redemption.
Not a chance.
Baldwin still hasn’t figured out the 2nd amendment is a fundamental right. If one begins altering that (and there is a way to do it) then one is treading on very thin ice. Before you know it people like Baldwin who become wealthy making movies that use violence of all types will suddenly be finding themselves no longer able to make films because those too will be banned.
I always thought a.b. was a pos. Now I know it.
My issue is listening to the garbage news, how it was an “accidental discharge”. Bullshit. And there were two other “accidental discharges” before that. Bullshit. Unless the gun broke and went off on it’s own without touching the trigger, then they are negligent discharges. People had been complaining of dangerous work environment, which is why those folks walked off the set, and were replaced, BY THE PRODUCERS. Nevertheless, it’s still a horrible thing, for the ones killed/hurt, and even that douche-canoe of a human being.
A Hollywood firearms expert explains how guns are supposed to be handled safely on set
Jacob Shamsian
Fri, October 22, 2021, 9:33 AM
A gun fired on the set of the movie “Rust” on Thursday killed one person and injured another.
Hollywood firearms expert Larry Zanoff said sets are supposed to have a designated person handling guns.
Blanks are supposed to be used instead of live ammunition, but they can still cause injury.
The death of “Rust” cinematographer Halyna Hutchins on Thursday has raised questions about whether firearms are safely handled on movie and TV sets.
Alec Baldwin, the lead actor of the movie, fired a prop gun while filming a scene on the New Mexico set. It discharged, killing Hutchins and injuring the movie’s director, Joel Souza, the Santa Fe County Sheriff’s office said.
IATSE Local 44, a union representing prop masters, told its members in an email that a live round was used in Baldwin’s gun, although none of its members were on the movie’s call sheet, Indiewire reported. A representative for the sheriff’s office told Insider that an armorer was on set and that the office was investigating “how and what type of projectile was discharged.”
If the gun had live ammunition, it would be a major violation of set safety guidelines, according to Larry Zanoff, a prop weapons manager at Independent Studio Services.”The television and motion picture industry uses blanks,” Zanoff told Insider. “There’s no place for live ammunition on a television or movie set.”
Using blanks instead of live ammunition can still cause injuries
Zanoff, a former gunsmith, now works to safely equip actors with guns on movie and TV sets. He has nearly 60 credits to his name on IMDb, ranging from “Captain America: Civil War” to “Westworld.”
He said that every set is supposed to have a designated person to oversee firearm use on set, make sure all guns and ammunition are “under lock and key” when they’re not being used, and inspect the firearms before and after each scene with their use.
That person, he said, is also supposed to hold multiple daily safety briefings – regardless of whether any guns are actually fired on set on that particular day.
“That person should be a professional who is both educated enough and technically skilled enough to handle those particular firearms that are being used on that particular production,” Zanoff said. “Guns are supposed to be inspected before and after each and every use.”
Prop guns are often capable of firing live ammunition, but only blank cartridges are supposed to be used on set. The difference, Zanoff said, is the projectile. Live ammunition is designed to kill or injure, including a piece of metal that’s supposed to speed out of the gun upon firing. Blanks might have a piece of paper or cotton instead of metal. So while a blank may have gunpowder, igniting the gunpowder won’t shoot a hard object out of the gun itself.
larry zanoff
Larry Zanoff, an armorer who worked on the movie, “Django Unchained”, holds up 1858 Remington revolvers that were used in the movie. Zanoff was photographed inside the western room at Independent Studio Services in Sunland on January 31, 2013. That doesn’t mean that a blank can’t still hurt someone. Igniting the gunpowder could still cause burns and other injuries, and industry standards require that the cast and crew be 20 feet away if a blank is being fired, Zanoff said.
“If you put something with a blank very close to your skin, clearly you’d get burned. There is an explosion,” Zanoff said. “It’s supposed to be simulated gunfire. So in order to look correct, you’re going to get a muzzle flash.”
Following Hutchins’s death, will industry standards change? Zanoff said it’s too soon to tell, but the existing guidelines are very strong already, and he thinks it’s likely they weren’t properly followed on the set of “Rust.”
“The majority of productions go day in, day out, and manage to replicate gunfire multiple, multiple times a day in a very safe and controlled way,” Zanoff said. “I don’t know that there’s anything more stringent that can be done as far as the safety protocol goes. It’s more a question of whether or not the safety protocols were followed.”
Read the original article on Insider
I don’t see how a firearms “expert” can refer to a prop gun as a firearm- by definition a “prop” gun specifically is not a firearm. Prop guns resemble real firearms and are designed to replicate the function/sound/appearance of a real firearm- but they do not expel a projectile.
A genuine prop gun is unable to discharge live ammunition- but even blanks can be deadly and therefore they must be handled carefully to avoid injury. A firearm is capable of discharging live ammunition, must be treated as a firearm at all times, and must be referred to as a firearm- regardless of whether it’s unloaded, loaded with live ammo, or loaded with blanks.
It appears this “prop gun” wordplay is being used intentionally for obfuscation. There’s prop guns (replicas, blank guns, rubber guns, etc.) and there’s firearms. Period.
One has to choose to confuse the two…
Sometimes real guns are used as props. Check out Larry’s show “Hollywood Weapons” and especially TFB interviews with Larry.
If it’s a firearm it’s not a prop gun- it’s a firearm being used on the set of a production, and therefore must be referred to by the proper terminology.
If it’s not a firearm- then it can properly be referred to as a prop gun.
The two are unequivocally different… and words matter.
The urinalists writing the stories on this incident are not that careful with language. They never are, unless there’s an agenda they’re pushing.
Their agenda is obfuscation in order to perpetuate their narrative.
They must have this “expert” on their payroll.
Not true. At this point, probably MOST “prop” guns have barrel restrictions, but not all – and even that is a relatively new (started in the 70s) development. Since they’ve been making Westerns since Jesus was in grammar school, and widespread use of barrel restrictions didn’t become COMMON practice in Hollywood until the 80s, and STILL isn’t “universal”, everything you said is pretty much not true.
And now that much (most?) film production has escaped KKKalifornia, standards for any particular production depend on location, budget, standards of the producers, etc.
So, we’re back to this… was it designed to chamber and fire common firearm ammunition and expel a projectile? If so- it’s a firearm. If not- it’s a prop gun. Putting blanks in a firearm doesn’t magically transform it into a prop gun- it’s a firearm loaded with blanks. Now, if you permanently modify a firearm enough to make it where it can no longer chamber/fire/expel a projectile- then it can be called a prop gun.
It’s very easy to distinguish between the two- this isn’t rocket science. It makes no difference what Hollywood calls them- facts are facts… and firearms are firearms and prop guns are prop guns.
The writer of this article and most of those posting here are morally and ethically sick, reveling in the fact that an anti-gun person had something very very bad happen to him. What happened was he accidentally killed a woman. Is it still super cool, even though that lady’s family is without her?
Trying to tie him into being directly responsible is such a gross stretch. They hire prop specialists to manage this kind of thing. The director and lead actor (Baldwin) probably had his hands full enough to not want or have time to be responsible for other people’s responsibilities.
When something like this happens to someone of a different political persuasion than you, it’s time to remember that we are all human, we all love our families, and none of us would want to live with the memory that Alec Baldwin now has to live with. Have some compassion folks.
LC, if you pick up a gun and fire it YOU ARE DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE PROJECTILE THAT LEAVES THAT GUN! There is no way around that. Saying you didn’t know it was loaded doesn’t cut it. If you didn’t know, you should have. If you don’t know how to tell if it’s loaded you shouldn’t have picked it up in the first place.
This isn’t your ordinary random person.
This is a rich, famous, and powerful man who has publicly and gleefully gone out of his way to damage people he disagrees with. He agitates for removing the rights of others while his own privilege insulates him from the restrictions he would impose on the rest of us.
In short, Alec Baldwin is not a good person.
I feel sorry for the people he hurt; I would never wish for that to happen; I can easily imagine how he feels, as there far less significant things I’ve done that still pain me; and at the same time, I do not care how he feels.
If you anglicize the word, compassion means “fellow-feeling.” Alec Baldwin is no fellow of mine nor ours, so we need not bother feeling for him.
If a gun is in your hand it is your responsibility. If Baldwin wanted someone else to have that responsibility he should have left the gun in that person’s hands. This event is a PERFECT example of why you cannot hand off that responsibility.
You are clearly not a Trumper.
Yeah, pretty much, champ, he had the gun in his hand, he pulled the trigger, so HE is responsible. There was nothing “accidental” about it. Negligent? Sure. Criminally negligent? Possibly. But “accidental”? No way.
FWIW, in an earlier comment, I made it clear that I was praying for both the victim, her family and friends, AND Alec the @$$hole Baldwin. While I find this an excellent example of karma in action, I have NO schadenfreude about it. I DO find it extremely karmic.
The major question here is who was the armorer for the movie? Sure, there’s a props manager but that could be someone making sure the tables and chairs and spittoons are all in place. The armorer is the person who controls the guns on the movie set, controls the ammunition used in those guns.
Was the armorer present on the set at the time? Or, much worse, did the company not hire an armorer at all and had some newbies handling the hardware? That is the sort of info that will really tell us who is at fault here for a “prop gun” being loaded with real ammunition, not blanks.
The other thing is if other people were in the line of fire without protection, that too is a major safety violation.
fyi
Major accidents on movie and television sets
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/major-accidents-movie-sets-2021-10-22/
btw
I don’t recall anyone being shot on the set of “Band Of Brothers”. The promotional material for that show bragged about the amount of ammo and the number of guns used.
“According to “The Making of Band of Brothers,” a heavy day of filming required up to 14,000 rounds of ammunition, and the set had an arsenal of 700 authentic World War II weapons and 400 rubber prop guns.”
https://taskandpurpose.com/entertainment/10-things-never-knew-band-brothers/
It seems some artists take safety with firearms seriously. And some don’t.
Copper’s rules don’t apply, but there are rules concerning blank firing props. Baldwin and any other actors should have been trained on them, including not pointing them directly at people, especially at close range. One source reported that the shooting occurred between scenes, and Baldwin joked about killing the directors for making him do the scene again before aiming the gun at them and pulling the trigger. If that’s what happened, Baldwin is liable for misusing the gun. The armorer may be liable if a live round was placed in a real gun or an obstruction was in the barrel ahead of the blank. If the armorer is liable, Baldwin might be partially liable for hiring an unqualified person who was supposed to be responsible for.safety.
Sorry, Anymouse, the Four Rules ALWAYS apply. Point the muzzle of a RUBBER gun at me, and I’m going to ream your @$$. If you continue doing it, I’ll kick your @$$.
The Four Rules apply to ALL weapons – “real” firearms, Airsoft guns, pellet guns, blank guns, toy guns. If you make “exceptions” for “safe” firearms, that’s on you, but don’t try to sell that nonsense here.
Baldwin is an idiot. He acts like an idiot. I do acting also and will be in an up-coming documentary called ‘The Fight Before Christmas,’ a new documentary film, will debut on Apple TV on November 26
I play a x military x cop type person. I was provided a revolver to have holstered for a scene. I inspected the revolver and insured the cylinder was empty. The revolver was shown to everyone on set to see it was empty. It was then holstered and carried by me never touched again.
Baldwin should have know what he was pointing and what was in it. That’s his responsibility. Is this a real weapon? What are the cartridges in it? Show me! I wouldn’t do what he did.
Are they using period firearms? I would imagine that they would be black powder weapons and a ball(or something hard) would have to have been loaded into the firearm directly. A piece of wadding shouldn’t kill someone at 15′ and would go through them to lodge in a clavicle of a second person.
By his own slanderous libelous buttspew Alex Baldwin showed numerous times how gun ignorant he is. Like 99 9/10% of Gun Control useful idiots they are accidents waiting to happen. They are their own worst enemies.
There was some talk of him saying “shoot the scene again?” And then firing at the crew
I’ll give the guy the benefit of doubt and say I don’t think he meant to do it, but he was the producer of this film and it was his ultimate responsibility for safety on set
But he’s also an asshole and a drunk and probably shot at the crew thinking the gun was safe
This wouldn’t have happened if he learned about guns before handling one
And here it is in black-and-white, the production company refused to pay professional IATSE union members and instead, relied on local nonunion labor to save money.
“As the camera crew — members of the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees — spent about an hour assembling their gear at the Bonanza Creek Ranch, several nonunion crew members showed up to replace them, the knowledgeable person said.
A member of the producer staff then ordered the union members to leave the set. She said if they didn’t leave, the producers would call security to remove them.“
Look for the Union label.
Baldwin was a producer of the movie. I guess he didn’t want to pay for that Union label.
Union members were on set when Brandon Lee was killed.
It’s those typical greedy republicans that hate unions trying to save money. Oh wait…
So the gun control crowd tried to save a buck and killed someone with a gun.
Pretty typical behavior of the anti human and civil rights crowd on the left.
It’s beginning to look like the Union Label is all over this.
“It’s beginning to look like the Union Label is all over this.“
Your reading comprehension skills seem somewhat lacking:
“As the camera crew — members of the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees — spent about an hour assembling their gear at the Bonanza Creek Ranch, several nonunion crew members showed up to replace them, the knowledgeable person said.
A member of the producer staff then ordered the union members to leave the set. She said if they didn’t leave, the producers would call security to remove them.“
hollywood. Pro union. Anti gun. This is on them.
The left has been bought by million and billionaires. None of this has any thing to do with conservatives. It’s all on the fascist left.
Hollywood. Home of the fascist left.
It would appear to be quintessential labor union modus operandi. Do something organized crime, uh… organized labor doesn’t like, and they’ll fix you right up…
“Hey Amico- they say we gotta get scarce or they gonna escort us out. ‘Bout time an egg got broke around here, capice? You got it, Nick. I’ll fix it so Alec comes heavy on the set… the old one times .45 should do the trick. That’ll straighten this Young Turk right up- veloce, like…”
“New Mexico First Judicial District Attorney Mary Carmack-Altwies’ office said in the statement sent to CNN that they are still in the preliminary stages of the investigation.
“We will look into all facts and evidence of the case with great discretion and have further information at a later time.”
Discretion? Great discretion!?
I don’t think that word means what they think it means.
Looking into all the facts and evidence of a potential crime “with great discretion” means that they will choose their course of action not based on the evidence, but on simply how they decide they want to proceed. I don’t think they meant to be, but it’s probably one of the most honest things a politician has said in a long time.
“the freedom to decide what should be done in a particular situation”
The victims weren’t actors on the set, so why point, cock the gun and shoot at them. (assuming single action in a western movie) (I love westerns but would never spend my hard earned bread on a Baldwin movie.) Two people were injured. Having to re-cock the gun would indicate there was intent to do harm.
Hopefully he tests any future prop guns against his temple going forward, in the interest of safety to those under his supervision of course.
according to some news sources with a bit more detail; the bullet hit her in the shoulder area and passed through then hit the other person. So a single bullet, at what must have been close range. They were both at a point next to where the scene was being shot, it was close, they were looking at a monitor.
I seriously dislike Baldwin for reasons which do not matter here. But I have a hard time laying all the blame on him, considering the business he is in and how movies are made. I do not say that he shares no blame, as the gun was in his hands and he fired it. But there is the Armorer who was responsible for guns and ammunition and the Assistant Director who announced “COLD GUN!” and handed it to Baldwin.
Why was any live ammunition on that movie set? Major safety violation. I’ve a relative in the industry who has worked on that movie ranch and is very familiar with the rules there. They allow no guns on the property except when brought in by the production company, and removed each and every day. No live rounds are permitted on the property at all, they would evict anyone caught with live rounds.
So where was the Armorer in all this? Was she present during the incident? Was the AD trained in gun safety and failed to check the gun personally? Was Baldwin given gun safety training to know to inspect the gun he was handed?
There is never any escaping responsibility for being the person that pulls the trigger. At the same time it must not be ignored that there are rules and procedures in place on movie sets. If we ignore all that and dump all of it on the last person to fail at safety, then the weaknesses along the way are left to fester.
Right now, with the information currently shared, I’d say the wrong of this negligent act is shared by three people at least. The Armorer, the Assistant Director who handed over the gun and the Actor who accepted and fired it.
There may be more to this. Reports saying generally unsafe conditions on the set caused the camera crews to walk off and be replaced by non-union people of less experience. Failures by the production company to provide contracted lodging. Two earlier incidents of a so-called “mis-fire” with live rounds discovered.
The fault and contributions to this tragedy are yet to be fully revealed.
He really compared his s**t movie to Unforgiven? There is no way Alec Baldwin would ever do anything even remotely close to on par with anything Clint Eastwood has ever done. Eastwood is a legend and a gentleman. Baldwin is just a loudmouth bully.
Every gun is considered loaded at all times and must be checked and rechecked to make
absolutely certain that it is not. Alec Baldwin was the last individual to have contact with
that particular firearm before it was fired. I will leave it to the reasonable, responsible
individual to surmise who then is at fault in this instance!
This reeks of deep stupid and deep hypocrisy- the M.O. of the anti gun left. Spare us the don’t condemn Alec baloney.
The idiot wants to ban guns, brags of his gunplay skills, Condemns LEO’s doing their job. Attacks the N.R.A. Makes violent threats against President Trump.
Then shoots and kills a woman.
He pulled the trigger no one else.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10123003/I-wasnt-sure-ready-Doubts-head-armorer-24-charge-guns-Alec-Baldwin-film.html
He will get off though scott free- that’s also leftist M.O.
Just ask Hunter Biden about his dumpster gun.
U/H
Always check youre weapon movie or not you just pointed and shot a live round
Did he check his weapon no or did he have anger issues with the deceaseaced.
Phuck he has gone spiral on a spouse.
Please charge him with Capitol Murder
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