The Twitter account @KillZimmerman has been up and running for three days, despite calls for the Internet giant to remove the inflammatory Twitterer. What does that tell you? Would Twitter allow an account named something like, say, @Trayvondeservedtodie or @KillSpikeLee? Where’s the media outrage that greeted Sarah Palin’s use of a gunsight on her Facebook page? And while we’re at it, when exactly is the Justice Department going to move on the New Black Panthers’ announcement of a $10k bounty on George Zimmerman’s head?
Sounds like they need to be held negligent in any harm that may come to Zimmerman.
of course not that would be racist!
I don’t know all the facts but I get sick of how everything like this gets turned into a racist battle… in the end, what if it actually comes out that he was right and he was attacked and acted in self-defense? that won’t make the news!
Loren, sure it will make the news if Zimmerman is indicted and then gets off. It will just be more grist for mill of public opinion that every racist gets a pass for killing a black teen. Facts and a preponderance of what ever evidence may be entered in court, and that is weighed by a jury of his peers, not withstanding. It so totally fits the narrative. And it all may be just in time for the republican convention and the fall election. What could possibly be more perfect?
It sucks that it took a racial media circus to get the police and other authorities to do a proper investigation.
I wish I could believe that personal prejudices didn’t factor into the initial investigation, but we are humans… we are all prejudiced in one way or another.
I absolutely want to make sure Zimmerman gets a fair hearing. But AFTER we find out all the facts, and make sure that Trayvon gets the investigation that anyone of us would want if it was our son laying dead on a sidewalk with nothing more dangerous than a can of iced tea and skittles in his pocket.
There is no indication that a substandard investigation was performed. In fact, the investigator suggested arrest for negligent homicide and was advised not to do so by the SA because the SA didn’t feel he could make the case stick. Sometimes stuff goes down and you cannot prove how in a court beyond the reasonable doubt standard. I have no doubt that OJ Simpson killed his ex-wife and the poor bastard who thought he was getting lucky that night, but it’s not (or was not) provable in a court of law.
We have a legal system, not a justice system. Twitter cowboys like @KillZimmerman sure seem to want to impose their version of justice by public opinion or mob rule, but that’s no way to run a railroad much less a country.
My impression was that OJ’s acquittal was a case of jury nullification. I thinks the later comments of some of the jurors confirmed that. They decided racial prejudice was present and could have, if they speculated wildly enough, have led to OJ being set up. “Beyond a reasonable doubt” sometimes becomes the need to prove beyond any conceivable doubt invented by a desperate defense attorney or soap-opera writer. Such feelings, joined to the ludicrous scene of OJ “trying” to pull the glove on while keeping his hand flat and fully expanded, yielded a bizarre and quick verdict. Who knows? “If his scalp was split, you must acquit!”
My impression of OJ’s acquittal was that Judge Ito was an amateur who couldn’t control his courtroom and allowed some outstanding defense attorneys to turn the trial into a circus.
Well, that too. And a pair of prosecutors afraid to land their punches.
It will make the news for one day in a modest way.
So can we expect this shit anytime the racial makeup doesn’t agree with certain members of the population? I don’t see a lot of twitter rants calling for justice in inner city gang violence. I thought snitches got stitches instead?
But what can we expect from a population that wants free stuff and for someone else to pay for it.
“I don’t see a lot of twitter rants calling for justice in inner city gang violence.”
You bring up an interesting point GS. Suppose that anonymous “vigilante” groups spontaneously formed in inner city neighborhoods and started issuing “Wanted: Dead or Alive” posters, with “Rewards”, that fingered the bad actors that cause most of the pain and misery in these neighborhoods. Sure, it all nice and everything to do it all legit and legal like, but where has that really gotten anybody? The courts and the police and the politicians and the “Community Organizers and Leaders”, haven’t really done Jack for the past 50 years or so. In fact, these people have a perverse incentive to maintain the status quo. Perhaps it’s time to change tactics and put the People back in charge.
I propose a new law: Only black people are allowed to kill black people. Only white people are allowed to kill white people. Then nobody gets their noses out of joint.
Half of your proposal is apparently already in effect where I live. But only half. And for a long time.
When he’s lynched? Maybe.
Don’t count on it.
“Would Twitter allow an account named something like, say, @Trayvondeservedtodie or @KillSpikeLee?”
I’m almost tempted to create a page like that just to see how long it would stay up. Just a little experiment. But I’m positive if anything happened to Spike Lee or Trayvon’s family because of it, I would be held responsible. Even though if something happened to Zimmerman everyone would just look the other way. Plus if anyone found out I came up with the idea while here, it would look bad on gun owners and 2A supporters. I won’t, but still tempted though.
Just so we’re all clear, Dekalb Co PD did arrest Hashim Nzinga (the Bounty Panther) for …wait for it… Felon in posession …wait for it… Of a FiveSeven.
Technically there’s no irony since (according to TTAG) the GCA has it’s origins in the suppression of gun totin’ Black Panthers. It only took 44 years to work.
State of GA already arrested one of the NBP crew for felon-in-posession, he sold a FN FiveSeven to a pawnshop in Georgia.
http://newsone.com/nation/crime/ruthlogan/hashim-nzinga-arrested-after-pawning-gun/
About time some one sticks up for the silent majority. Reverse-racism is racism all the same.
Absolutely!
I would think a bounty on someone’s head is illegal??? Hell, the NFL just suspended coaches and some players (soon) for bounties on the football field. I suppose Holder is waiting for advice from Roger Goodell?
I’d be surprised if Twitter doesn’t pull this down in the next 48 hours or so. It takes time for stuff like this to make it to the decision makers.
My guess, since the job is probably over, is that law enforcement’s running that twitter account.
If so, then twitter’s a really badly run organization.
@Greg it honestly doesn’t take that long. Twitter has pulled accounts very quickly when they undermine Twitter’s business interests (e.g. embarrassing a celebrity). IMO they’re either keeping this up because one of the higher-ups agrees with the sentiment, or they want the publicity.
The black community is doing nothing but hurting their cause with bullshit like this. I welcome coherent arguments to every situation but stunts like the NBP and Spike Lee pulled do nothing but make me, as a person that likes to wait till all the facts are out, less and less objective. In their fervor to make a huge deal of this the black groups and the MSM are tenuously running on a latino guy’s usually caucasian last name. I wonder how big a deal it would be if his name was Jorge Garcia/Hernandez/Gomez/Lopez. Nowadays if a white group put out a bounty on a black man they would be hauled in and prosecuted in a goddam heartbeat. And never mind the rampant black on black homicides they never give this level of publicity. They scream for equality when it is nothing but disgustingly lopsided anymore. How about the Trayvon protesters that ransacked a Walgreens for no reason? Good luck seeing comments for any of the hosted videos now. Two days ago the people spoke their mind on liveleak but 98% of it wasn’t at all “palatable” so they’re now gone. Ransacking a store, bounties on an as yet innocent man, an elderly couple forced out of their home – everyone involved should be flat out f*ckin’ ashamed of themselves and realize that a normally objective person like me, and many others, has lost a massive part of his objectivity. I don’t have a damn thing against anybody but this kind of crap sickens me.
Yeah. It hurts when you keep an open mind and others just want to try and keep shutting that door on you.
In so fewer words than mine, exactly.
You can’t hold all blacks responsible for what a few jerkoffs do. Including a bunch of high school kids who stole 150 bucks worth of stuff from a pharmacy….
When those white guys chained a black guy to their truck and dragged him to death 13 years ago, you didn’t hear us all criticizing the white community.. there is no white community.
Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Spike Lee.. they speak for all black people the same way George W Bush or Mitt Romney or Rick Santorum speaks for all White people… not at all.
Thanks for the social education, Josh. No one is saying ALL blacks are responsible for what a few jerkoffs do but you. It is very clear what APBTFan is saying that it is just a few groups that cause this disparity.
Add to that the media and their selective reporting (which the cattle and sheep take for gospel) and you have a shift in thought for many who are fickle and stupid. Not to mention those like yourself who think that any objection to anyone that is black doing anything wrong is seen as being intolerant and sometimes racist. Have some faith, Dude.
How about less sensitive on some subjects? I think we have enough cryhards out there. Let’s get more objective people thinking about this.
Thanks Buuurr. You read me perfectly.
A concise review of the Eric Holder Justice Department:
Selling guns to drug cartels? A OK
Threatening a man’s life in a public forum?OK
A racist group publicly issuing bounties and death threats?OK
Killing an American citizen without due process ?OK
Buying more than 5 long guns in Arizona & Texas? Hold on there pardner, better check that out…….
Wonderfully stated.
I agree with your points here, RF. However, it is not alltogether accurate to say that the New Black Panthers have put a “price on George Zimmerman’s head.” They have called for his arrest and prosecution, and have doubtless carefully avoided calling for his death. Not to defend these charlatans, but let’s be accurate. Clearly, there is no danger that they will ever have to pay out the money they’re raising, which they can use to further their cause of raising more money.
I liked the old Black Panthers better. If nothing else, they were badass gun rights advocates.
We have to face up to the whole race issue, sooner or later. It’s easy to point the finger at clowns like the New Panthers, or the Reverends Al and Jesse, but the conservative movement is largely founded on Nixon’s Southern Strategy, used to great effect by every Republican Presidential canditate since. Reagan made his first post-convention speech near notorious Philadelphia, Mississippi –
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Reagan%27s_speech_at_the_Neshoba_County_Fair
I’ll agree with Ralph that Zimmerman is humped, right or wrong (I’m about 50/50 on that score), but is he not the scapegoat for any number of actual sins?
Oh, doubtlessly. So the flyer proclaiming DEAD or ALIVE is doubtlessly just a figment of my imagine. Either that, or you’re doubtlessly too lazy to bother to Google something before you decide to have an opinion on the matter.
Jason, I stand corrected. I just listened to the guy’s speech, I didn’t see the close up of the flyer. Again, as I made absolutely clear, I’m not defending these guys. I stand by the rest of my post.
You’re accusation of lazy is correct – I followed RFs link and did no further research. I was busy cooking dinner for my kids (seriously).
Mia culpa. You need not be so nasty. Doubtlessly.
Mia Culpa? I dated her. When we broke up she blamed it on me. Go figure.
I knew that chick. She picked up her last name from her first marriage.
I love how these TTAG comments are reinforcing all the stereotypes about gun guys… a bunch of angry white guys who throw objectivity out the window as soon as a real injustice threatens their right-leaning worldview: that race no longer matters, black people just need to suck it up and get a goddamn job, and if a DGU’er is attacked by liberals, the DGU must’ve been justified. They then justify the death of the victim by talking about how blacks bring it on themselves by being more likely to be criminals, as if Trayvon was responsible for his skin color. So what if a bunch of angry and/or ignorant folks are taking Trayvon’s side and ready to crucify Zimmerman… there are plenty of angry/ignorant folks doing the opposite… they’ve even hacked his gmail, facebook, and myspace accounts to troll around and prove how bad a kid he was. Only thing they could find was more evidence that he liked pot… like thats a capital offense. They conveniently forget to mention the emails about his upcoming SAT tests, college admissions, employment fairs, aviation mechanic forums, etc.
If all those damn gun-grabbin Socialist, pinko liberals are attacking Zimmerman, than he must be in the right… and we gotta defend him! We could be next!! So what if his own paranoia, fear, and lack of good judgement led to him shoot a kid… Am I right?!!
Wow. Where to begin? In one post you complain about people lumping all black guys into a group and here you do the same with white guys and politics.
Truly writing from the heart.
Its meant to be ironic. But yeah, writing from deep seated irritation with the direction coverage of this story has taken. I think most folks were much more objective about it all before it turned into a huge media circus that “forced” people to choose sides. I went to the range last night and heard some pretty ignorant comments being aired openly, and thats when I realized the wagons were circling. I’m seeing the same thing happen on this site, but to a significantly lower degree of intensity.
That being said, the ignorant dumbass who started that Twitter account should be arrested and charged with incitement.
I don’t hate people for the color of their skin. I loathe them for the choices they make.
I DO hate the pervasive gangsta subculture that worships criminal violence and death. Every time one of those S.O.B.s opens their mouths or beats, robs, shoots, or kills someone it significantly sets race relations back. Every time they threaten the life of a man who’s innocent until proven guilty it makes me loathe them even more.
Civilized people of every color can get along and work together.
We cannot, however, work with uncivilized folk and their defenders.
I agree, Josh.
I think most folks were much more objective about it all before it turned into a huge media circus that “forced” people to choose sides.
Josh, once the MSM started calling Zimmerman a “white Hispanic,” the die was cast. They turned a bad shooting into a racial incident to sell more soap.
That’s ridiculously irresponsible on Twitter’s part. This is the internet version of an incitement to violence. What happens if someone does spot Zimmerman and tweets it? What’s Twitter’s responsibility if a lynch mob gets organized with this hashtag? Are they willing to take the chance they their executives would be considered accessories to murder?
Man, this is a whole ‘nother can o worms. Not like Twitter is there with a bullhorn riling up the mob, but…
Ralph? Any of you other lawyers?
Sorry, Carlos, are you a lawyer? Can you at least fake it?
No, not a lawyer, but I think about legal stuff a lot. I’d really like to hear from a lawyer, too, especially one familiar with this area specifically. Although this is pretty unprecedented, so I’m not sure this qualifies as an “area” at all.
I’d like to hear a lawyers point of view too. Hasn’t there been cases of people reading something on the internet or in a book, and doing something crazy and the authors of the book or the owners of the website being dragged into court for incitement to violence. I don’t know if the author was actually prosecuted or not, but The Turner Diaries come to mind. Would something like this not fall into the same catagory. Not saying Oklahoma is on the same level as this, but how much responsibility does an author or website have for what its readers do. After all it’s called KillZimmerman. They’re obviously pissed, but what if the wrong person comes along and starts reading that stuff, and actually acts on it.
A quick addon to my post above. Another thought just crossed my mind after posting. Forget about Twitter as a whole. How much responsibility would an individual poster have if someone acted on something they posted online?
We’ve seen books, songs and other media blamed for everything from suicide to murder, generating a lot of civil actions. I’m not aware of criminal prosecutions. I don’t think Twitter or any other form of social media would have any criminal responsibility for a crime requiring intent. As to civil liability, while each case is different, I haven’t seen a case where damages were awarded.
There’s often a difference between illegal and irresponsible.
Could it be argued that the individual posting had satisfied the intent requirement? While Twitter could be held blameless (or at least not liable), what about the individual inciting people to “kill zimmerman”?
Here in SoCal a 911 caller has been arrested & charged with manslaughter after reporting a burglary of his vehicle in which heclaimed the 2 perps had guns. When the cops arrived, one of them shot & killed a perp as he was reaching toward his waistband. Neither perps were armed. DA is saying the false claim of the perps being armed manipulated the mindset of the cops but given the sheer amount of cop shootings where the cops claim perps “were reaching for their waistbands” but turn out to be unarmed, I don’t see that as being a factor. IMO the shooting in this incident would have happened anyway.
And until all the investigations are completed in the Martin shooting with a ruling from the DAs office and/or the grand jury have been issued, this can only be called a ‘questionable’ shooting.
I think what is most fascinating and alarming about this whole drama is how the Internet and mobile technology is being used or rather abused, and how people are manipulating or at least affecting through interjection their own agendas into the legal process. What happens in the near future with unrelated cases if this type of reaction by politically motivated groups and individuals with their own agendas becomes the common standard?
IMO, this type of behavior judging people to the point of calling for a person’s execution in the Court of Public Opinion — which btw brings out the worst in elected officials — is another dangerous strike against the ideal of Innocent until Proven Guilty.
Things are getting worse in our land. A multitude of squabbling angry nationalities all feeling victimized by other tribes within our own borders is a greater threat than a foreign Army camped outside our gates. There was a reason why immigrants were once expected to leave their past citizenships behind and to become Americans first. Keep your backs to the wall and your powder dry and plentiful since without a common vision the people will perish.
I read that the New Black Panther Party is offering this reward to anyone who captures Mr. Zimmerman.
Were I in Mr. Zimmerman’s camp, I think I would arrange for Mr. Zimmerman to be captured on the eve of the day he is scheduled to turn himself in.
The end of America as we know it. Start stockpiling people, the sub-human animals are becoming the norm.
I stockpile guns and ammo because it’s my job and also I like to shoot. Why would I start stockpiling people?
“what are you doing? You don’t live around here.” (suspicious tone)
(With a smile)”Hi. I’m Trevon. My dad and I are visiting his fiancé’s house on palm ct. Have you seen what that gas station charges for pack of skittles and some ice tea?
Are you a neighbor? Is there a better place to shop around here?”
This was a suburban gated neighborhood. Not the mean streets of choose your gansta movie. In scenarios outside of the MSM’s “stalking, cold blooded racist executioner” I would predict a different outcome.
Kids – be situationally aware/polite/positive and you can diffuse suspision. My family drilled this into me at an early age. I got the benefit of the doubt way more than I ever deserved.
Fair enough.
But if it was the second time I saw that guy, and he’d been in a car following me the first time.. I’d have some serious trouble smiling. Also, the video shows a pretty intimidating looking dude getting out of that cop car.
If you believe Zimmerman’s version of the story, he had lost Treyvon before Treyvon called out to him. The 911 call would seem to support that Zimmerman had agreed to meet the police at the condo clubhouse and was headed there when he hung up, 180-degrees from where the shooting took place and straight back to where his pickup was parked.
If you’ve ditched a pursuer, why call them back? Why re-attract their attention? Zimmerman didn’t racially profile, he activity profiled. Someone he did not recognize was standing around in the rain, looking around and seemingly doing nothing inside of a gated community that had at least two break-ins from police reports in the preceding couple of months. Only when prompted by the 911 operator does Zimmerman give a guess at the race of the individual.
Turns out, Martin was talking on a cell phone headset, which is why he was walking around seemingly doing nothing. Odd activity if you’re not close enough to see the headset, people walking around talking to people who aren’t there do look “not right” until you see their BT headset.
Like all great tragedies, this is a series of small mistakes culminating in something awful.
Most people seem to have missed that ‘agreement to meet’ completely. I have no idea why, since that call was posted with the others when the 911’s were released. Your summary matches my reaction to the bits and pieces that have come out. As to the Twitter account that is the subject of the post, it isn’t possible that Twitter doesn’t know. I’d put money on the FBI wanting it held open to vacuum up extremist information for a few days. Have any opinion on Celox versus competing products?
Not professionally, I have not used any of the pro-clot drugs other than a pad we would occasionally put on an arterial puncture site following angiography, and it’s been so long I don’t even remember what that one contains. My commercial trauma kit has Celox, but I’ve never needed to break the seal on it.
Procoagulants seem like a good choice if you or a buddy are bleeding out, no matter what the brand. I wonder how well they work in patients with DIC? Pressure bandage plus coagulant of whatever flavor would seem to be the best choice.
Interestingly Trayvon’s mother is now acknowledging that the Stanford PD had told her that the first encounter with Zimmerman took place when Zimmerman was in his car. That Trayvon approached the car and asked Zimmerman why he was following him, and that Zimmerman told him that he wasn’t and simply rolled up the window. This jibes with Zimmerman’s 911 recording in which he seems to be observing Trayvon from within his car, and only leaves his car after Trayvon runs.
What I hadn’t realized until recently is that the earlier accounts of this incident were almost entirely dictated to the media by the Martin’s and their attorneys. The press was repeating these verbatim. But these parties acknowledge that they believe that the police are lying to them. Being that they have no other accounts or evidence, why would you take their rendition to be accurate? It’s apparent that what the Martins are promoting is the story that they prefer to believe, but they have no real evidence of this account. This is why the story that the public has been given has changed so dramatically.
wondering if Not Too Eloquent is going to support this or not…
I’m not a lawyer and I don’t play one on TV. I’m something worse – a law student! (bwahaha!)
“The [U.S.] Model Penal Code provides that a person is guilty of solicitation to commit a crime if:
1.) his purpose is to promote or facilitate the commission of a substantive offense; and
2.) with such purpose, he commands, encourages or requests another person to engage in conduct that would constitute the crime, an attempt to commit it, or would establish the other person’s complicity in its commission or attempted commission. [MPC § 5.02(1)] ”
In most jurisdictions, an accomplice can be convicted of any crime committed due to their solicitation of that crime. IOW, @KillZimmerman can probably be tried for murder if someone kills Zimmerman due, in any small part, to encouragement actually received by reading those tweets. Same would apply to the NBP and Roseanne Barr, in spite of her apology for tweeting GZ’s real address.
Interesting. It sounds like there’s enough to at least make a legal argument. What’s the penalty for solicitation?
I believe I just edited in the answer to your question 🙂
Much appreciated! Don’t let law school turn you into a lawyer, girl. 😉
I’m trying, I really am! I have an advantage, though. I’m not a fresh-faced impressionable 20-something. I’m a [censored] year old paralegal looking for an upgrade in my career. Probably not monetarily, though, as I plan to concentrate on providing assistance to the growing number of people representing themselves in court. And I plan to also concentrate on Constitutional Law just because it interests me, for obvious reasons given that I hang out here.
The Constitution? If you believe the government, the only part of it that matters anymore is the Commerce Clause.
Good luck in law school. I’m thinking about doing something with this crappy Political Science degree, myself.
Good for you. Wish you the best.
girlswithguns, you’re leaving a promising career as a paralegal to become Bartleby the Scrivener. Good luck!
Solicitation typically requires some form of direct contact — personal, telephonic etc. — between the person soliciting the criminal act and a person who may perform it. I don’t know of cases involving solicitation by publication. I’m not saying they’re not out there, but I’m not aware of any.
BTW, what school are you attending?
I don’t know how case law goes on the subject, I’m just saying that the case could be made and the person charged. Whether it would make it to trial is another matter. That said, given today’s entrenched use of social media as a primary means of communication, it’s only a matter of time before it becomes law one way or another.
I’m attending Lawyers-R-Us. IOW, I can’t afford tuition for an accredited school so I’m attending a distance learning school. Not accredited, but approved by the CA Bar, so a degree will qualify me to sit for the bar exam.
And it’s the cheap tuition that will allow me to be able to afford to work with pro pers which won’t exactly rake in the big bucks.
there is a very intense albeit quasi-secret battle being waged over 2a (it’s next on the list after habeus corpus and 14a) on any and all available fronts. Zimmerman may or may have been of weak constitution or he may have been justifiably in fear of his life. only two people were there that fateful evening and one of ’em ain’t talkin’. No reasponable person would infer, from the evidence thus far that Zimmerman was racially motivated to “hunt” and murder an “unarmed black teenager”. This much is certain; good fashioned ole’ fear mongering has been used with great success by those whose plans are not actually in the interest of a free society.