You may remember Pennsylvania Senator Patrick J. Toomey as the other half of the post-Sandy Hook Manchin – Tumey Safe Communities, Safe Schools Act of 2013. If passed and signed into law, that bill would have loosed “universal background checks” upon The Land of the Free. Toomey, a Republican, earned the eternal ire of pro-gun voters — reinforced after he talked of reviving the bill after the Charleston shooting. Well, maybe not eternal ire, as rollcall.com reports . . .
Despite his support for background checks, for many gun owners in Pennsylvania, Republican Sen. Patrick J. Toomey might be “the lesser of two evils” in his race against Democrat Katie McGinty . . .
Gun rights groups in Pennsylvania are now forced to choose between Toomey, whom they see as a threat to the Second Amendment, and Democrat Katie McGinty, whom they see as a bigger threat.
David Sager, the president of Pennsylvanians for Self Protection, told The Associated Press that his group might not endorse Toomey, but will try to make it clear that he’s the “lesser of two evils” in the Senate race.
Meanwhile, the northeastern Pennsylvania-based American Gun Owners Alliance is encouraging its members to support McGinty to make a point to other Republicans.
Founder David Dalton told the AP that if McGinty wins, as a freshman, she would be less powerful than Toomey who would be going into his second term.
So the enemy of my worse enemy is my friend? If only it were that simple . . .
McGinty, has criticized Toomey’s gun control record, calling it “paper-thin.” But that record has earned the incumbent the support of the political action committees of former Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg respectively. The daughter of the principal killed at Sandy Hook has appeared in an ad for Toomey.
And there you were thinking that voting for Trump would be a nose-holding affair. I mean, could you vote for the same politician supported by the nation’s most prominent gun control advocates?
Welcome to politics, fellow gunnys. There just isn’t a perfect candidate. Just thank your lucky stars if you don’t live among the liberal gun owners of California and Illinois.
We have mark Kirk to keep up with Toomey. Maybe not forever I have been saying this should be our policy for a while now.
There isn’t a perfect candidate? Ronald Reagan wasn’t a perfect candidate, but he was a damned good one. The choices we have anymore are downright abysmal. When both paths lead to the slaughterhouse, which will you pick? Choose your box carefully.
Yes. As a PA resident, I am stuck with going to the polls and voting for three people I despise: House rep, Senator, and a Presidential candidate, all three, simply because I despise their opponents more. I have voted for people who don’t thrill me many times, but I have never been in a position quite this bad before.
Edward Clifford is running as a Libertarian.
If you want to vote, but not for a gun-grabber, he’s probably your
bestonly choice.Thanks, I’ll give Clifford a look. Though, if he pulls enough of the vote to stick us with a Democrat, I might feel pretty bad.
Given the caliber of the people supporting Toomey, I don’t think I’d let the possibility of the Dem winning deter me. That jackass needs to be tossed, and he needs to know why.
Old Ben – With all due respect, but your logic drives me nuts!
Why should you be concerned with your vote being an “actual” vote for the democratic candidate? Vote your conscience and let it fall where it may! How would voting for the other candidate whom you also don’t like and think will enact bad policies/legislation be any better?
This is the problem with democratic republics…all it’s about is two wolves voting to eat the sheep…if you’re the sheep don’t vote for either wolf cuz either way you are dinner…take a stand and don’t vote. A wolf will get in either way but you’ll at least have the moral high ground.
Did your mom wake you up for that idiot comment gray boy? As far as addressing Toomey-I got the same dilemma in IL. Kirk is worse then Toomey and Duckworth is not an option…
I live in Illinois. I am for liberty, but I am not what would be considered liberal.
Also an Illinois resident. And I am absolutely not a liberal. In fact I take great pleasure in making fools out of them. Especially michelle mushmouth.
Well, if you are in Pennsylvania the answer is simple, Toomey might be an ass, but as long as the Republicans retain control of the Senate and House, nothin’ is getting through. On the other hand, if Hillary gets elected and the Dems get the Senate, then you have to start worrying. Well, longer term looking at the number of justices the next POTUS will appoint, a Hillary presidency will be a multi-generation disaster for gun rights, among other things.
^ This.
Toomey is pandering to the left. He’ll vote for UBCs but maybe not vote to confirm a gun-grabbing Supreme Court nominee.
McGinty is a dyed-in-the-wool gun-grabber who do whatever Hildebeast tells her to.
In our votes this fall, the future SCOTUS must be foremost in our minds.
TRUMP
THAT
BITCH
Single issue voters just like to complain that no politician is good enough for them. Second Amendment single-issue voters are no exception. This explains all the nevertrump nonsense such as JW Taylor’s articles. This makes things very difficult for the single issue voter. I simplify things that minimize my whining, so I’m just anti-Democrat party. The rest takes care of itself with Republicans in charge. Sure, there are exceptions, but nothing is perfect, except in the fantasies of the single issue voters.
Your signoff reminded me, a few days ago I spotted a professional-quality “Hillary for prison 2016” yard sign! Boy, do I wish I knew where they got that! I’d seen the bumper stickers, but this was the same thing 20 times the size.
What do you mean, “if”?
Toomey needed a primary loss, but voters didn’t give it to him. .
Now he needs a general election loss, but doing so will put a would be Hillary in the Senate, and in the incumbent’s position for the 2022 election.
Sucks no matter who wins, eh?
^ This!
The optimum solution was to give Toomey the boot in the primary election.
Wait! There’s no third party choice in this race?
By all means, vote for Clifford, just don’t expect him to win, it isn’t going to happen.
If McHillary wins with less than 50% of the vote, and Clifford gets over 10%, then maybe, just maybe, the RINOs will finally figure out what Bill Clinton learned in 1994, that gun grabbing loses elections.
https://www.lp.org/candidates/liberty-candidates-16/edward-clifford
I live in PA. Toomey may not be the candidate we want, but make no mistake, McGinty is a true gun hating liberal. It infuriates me to hear gun groups tell people to vote for dems to teach Republicans a lesson. Seriously? Four years of the pig Hillary with a dem house and senate? What lesson do they want us to learn? Civil war? Gun confiscation? Arrest for failure to turn in your guns? Knock this shit off. Hold your nose and vote for the lesser of two evils until there is a better choice.
No conundrum, never vote for a republican who votes for gun control. If we hold them to the fire, the rest of them will learn not to weaken when the press whips up a frenzie.
Why only the stupidest republicans ever fall for the “just be reasonable ” argument. They sell their soul cheap, and can never get it back. Even though I live in Michigan I sent his campaign some money based on conservative PAC recommendations. His campaign called me to re-up about a month ago. I told the young sounding campaign worker that I would not help because he had supported gun control. “but that was only background checks , everyone supports that ” He replied. I told him that all I ask for my support is the support the second amendment as written, no tax breaks, favors, programs, nothing, just leave my guns alone. And that once a republican failed that simple test, They could never be trusted again.
If we do not hold Our guys to an absolute standard, and start voting for party no matter what we will be lost.
I live near Detroit, and the city votes democratic 90 % every election. look around a see what that has gotten them .
The democrats know that Detroiters will always vote for them and so they take them for granted and do nothing for them.
I would love to hang Toomey out to dry, but I also want to keep a Republican majority in the Senate, so I plan to hold my nose for that reason. There are just no good alternatives this year.
This is why ballots need boxes for “No confidence” / “None” . If the majority vote for no representative, that seat is left open until the following election.
Good idea, so long as the Senate requires a quorum to pass legislation.
If they won’t reign themselves in, maybe we could do it for them simply by understaffing. No quorum, no new laws.
I’m guessing the Senate would never be full again.
And I suspect “that seat would remain open until the next election” would ensure that few ever vote for that option. They’d rather have bad representation than no representation, especially since our government has devolved into a gigantic pork dispensary. Few would be willing to be left out.
A “None Of The Above Is Acceptable” box should appear for EVERY office (even POTUS), but if it wins, the election should be done over with entirely new candidates–and the rejected candidates forbidden for running for any office for some period of time (lifetime would be my preference, but I could be persuaded if there’s some consideration I haven’t thought of).
In Pennsylvania we look at the ‘under vote’ where voters chose to NOT vote for a candidate. In this regard Toomey had over 251,000 undervotes in the 2016 Primary. Much the same as Santorum did in his loss to Casey.
Toomey is NOT Pro-Life. He supports illegal immigration and Obama judges in appointments! In fact the last two Federal Judges he supported from PA were both Democrats and constitutional disasters.
Well, shoot, what part of him is not Democrat?
She’s promised an assault weapons ban and no more big clips. I guess my potato chips bag goes unsealed.
Hmm, agreed.
I’m tried of having to choose crap or crap.
There should be a box for no vote, and if there are enough no votes then nobody wins and new candidates are selected. Like a do-over.
Why are we forcing ourselves to choose, no matter how bad. If it was Hitler vs Stalin we would be arguing over picking the lesser of two evils… but why, how about we pick neither.
Worst case is the former president must remain in office until an agreement is reached.
Might be more evils but at least it isn’t a locked in binding agreement to 4 years of hell.
“Worst case is the former president must remain in office until an agreement is reached.”
Wrong. The only way to effect this manner of radical election reform is by constitutional amendment, I would suggest it include turning over presidential duties to the Speaker of the House (#3 in line) until a new election for prez and VP can be held, and should also define when that election will be. I would love to see that, btw, would even work/contribute towards it.
Primaries matter.
If I lived in Pennsylvania I probably would have moved to Houston, Tx. years ago, but now, I would definately packup and go!
Well, Pennsylvania is actually fairly gun-friendly apart from Philly, Pittsburgh, and Harrisburg.
Moreso than most of the rest of the Northeast until you get up to Vermont/New Hampshire/Maine.
Not that Houston isn’t a nice place as well, I’m sure! 🙂
Pittsburgh and Harrisburg are not that bad either. You can open carry anywhere except Philly. You can carry inside the statehouse as well.
PA Law ONLY allows Open Carry where ever you can walk. Once you get in a car the PA law on ‘Transport’ of a firearm come into play and the gun owner better have a License to Carry Concealed ‘otherwise’ there are only 4 places to legally transport a firearm under Title 18, Section 6106 of PA Crimes Code. Violate this law and it is a misdemeanor 1 crime with permanent loss of firearms rights.
Also, you CAN Open Carry in Philadelphia but the Open Carrier MUST have a License To Carry Firearms.
Pennsylvania is the 11th most restrictive state in the nation for gun laws according to the anti-gun groups.
Kim:
Sounds like Michigan, where permitless OC is a pain in the ass when it means unloading and locking your gun in the trunk every time you get in the car, then taking it out of the truck, reloading and holstering at every stop.
At least we have had pre-emption since 1990, so Grand Rapids, Ann Arbor, and Detroit can’t (legally, anyway) subject us to Homie Rule.
http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-123-1102
Sufficient exemptions ( 14 ) exist to cover all manner of firearms transport as long as they are unloaded. If you’re not a dimwit there won’t be a problem
Of those 14 exemptions in 6106 ‘only’ 4 apply and the law does not provide for ANY stops. In certain counties in PA it is case law that no stops are allowed! So that means NO stops for gas, lunch, shopping of any kind, etc.
The ONLY legal transport in PA ‘without’ a License to Carry Firearms (LTCF) is:
1. Home to FFL and back (NO stops)
2. Home to Gun Range and back (NO stops)
3. Home to Recreation home and back (NO stops)
4. Home to gun turn in point (NOT gun buybacks & NO stops)
The above means that without an LTCF you CANNOT go ‘anywhere’ else with a firearm (as defined in section 6102) and that includes taking your favorite blaster over to show your buddy OR to drive somewhere with an unloaded firearm to Open Carry there.
PA Gun Laws are FAR more restrictive and punitive than most people think!
NO stops? What if a light turns red?
Stops are defined as when you get out of your vehicle in the case law.
In many ways, PA gun laws are less restrictive the TX gun laws. Not that local officials in D strongholds here don’t do what they can, including extra-legal actions. There are two main “gotchas” in PA gun laws. Kim pointed out one above: Open carry is legal, but since carrying in a car is considered “concealed,” in practice you need a permit. The second gotcha is that, although there is no registration of firearms officially, the PA State police keep records of every handgun purchased, and all handgun xfers must go through and FFL. I’ve been told the “records” are just on paper and not searchable, for what that is worth.
Old Ben: you are correct on your points except for the gun ownership records being maintained by the PSP using the Record Of Sale (ROS) form not being digital. These have been digital for decades. I was one of four plaintiffs who were part of a legal challenge to the ROS (registration) database that has been around since 1931 (actually records exist going back to 1901 here). We spent $48,000 and lost because of 3 Republican Supreme Court justices stabbed the law and gun owners and the constitution in the back in a divided decision.
So the records of handgun sales goes back over 80+ years here in PA and we still have crime with handguns. So much for the concept of Universal Background Checks working.
The issue of Toomey is a complicated one however, ‘if’ anyone thinks Toomey is ‘by far’ the ‘lesser of two evils’ they are ignoring the hidden dangers of his position on issues. The anti-gunners who have actually backed him reveals they are playing the long game. It is critical to add in the internal politics and long term leadership problems within the Republican Senate Leadership positions. As you know, both Bloomberg AND AGS (Gabby Giffords) anti-gun groups are supporting Toomey. Bloomberg has kicked in $1.15 million dollars. This is a fight for the soul of the Senate and is a dagger pointed right at our heart.
I suggest one considers the information available at this link: https://foac-pac.org/Federal-Legislator-Details/25 – and then reconsider the whole range of issues before us.
This is the information I have compiled in a summary of the problems with Toomey and I will lay out 6 big ones.
1. Toomey/Manchin Universal Background Checks legislation (tried this twice)
a. https://foac-pac.org/Toomey-Manchin-Unveil-Background-Check-Package/US-Legislator-Article/13
2. Working with anti-gun groups to pass Universal Background Checks legislation
a. https://foac-pac.org/Sen-Pat-Toomey-Working-With-Gun-control-Group-Everytown/US-Legislator-Article/15
3. Support for watered down versions of No Fly/No Buy gun legislation that eliminated ‘due process’
a. https://foac-pac.org/Toomey-And-Casey-Join-Together-On-Gun-Bill/US-Legislator-Article/18
4. Supported almost ‘all’ Obama administration judicial candidates for appointment to federal bench
a. https://foac-pac.org/Gop-Senator-Doesnt-Want-To-Block-All-Obama-Judges/US-Legislator-Article/5
b. https://foac-pac.org/Cruz-Gun-Adviser:-Obama-Nominated-Garland-To-ruin-The-Second-Amendment-And-Destroy-This-Country/US-Legislator-Article/9
c. https://foac-pac.org/Thanks-To-A-Gop-Senator-Obamas-Far-Left-Pick-Confirmed-To-Head-Library-Of-Congress/US-Legislator-Article/20
d. https://foac-pac.org/Toomey-Agrees-To-Meet-With-Obama-Scotus-Nominee/US-Legislator-Article/8
5. Expressed support for Sotomayor when he was running for the U.S. Senate the first time
6. Introduced S.3069 that would expand the power of government to arbitrarily deny someone the purchase of a firearm with automatic denial of firearms rights and empower the FISA court to have jurisdiction over these denials
a. https://foac-pac.org/Proposed-Federal-Senate-Legislation-SB3069/Federal-Law/4260
Also, while Toomey evidently wants gun owners to accept him, Toomey, as being the lesser of two evils, HE himself will not accept the same situation with Trump over Clinton.
1. https://foac-pac.org/Pa-sen:-Toomey-Challenges-Trump/US-Legislator-Article/14
2. https://foac-pac.org/Commentary:-Advice-To-Trump:-Seek-To-Unite-And-Listen-More/US-Legislator-Article/12
Even Santorum wasn’t this dense.
I met with Toomey (with witnesses) several times privately and with him at dozens of events. He has admitted to me that he ‘knew’ his legislation on background checks was flawed AND that it would have done NOTHING to stop Sandy Hook.
His positions are an affront to us all and he is unsuitable to be retained.
If you think that PA voters have it tough, try living in MA.
I live in a red town, and my state rep and state senator are both A-Rated. But the candidates for statewide and national office from both parties have the brains of sea turtles and the ethics of used car salesmen.
Ralph,
That was entirely unfair to used car salesmen.
Come to think of it, it was unfair to sea turtles, too.
Chuckle for the day.
And yet more proof that the ‘Paradigm of The Lesser Turd’ continues to rule.
It seems as if people are nothing but talk and amount to nothing more than wobbly-legged facilitators and enablers of subversive-collectivist domestic enemies.
Funny how nearly nobody EVER stands on fundamental principle and rejects those who do not measure up.
Er, well, but… um, of course those who actually HAVE fundamental principles do not compromise them, so that means that the big claims, patriotic-blather, Tuffy McTuff loud talk and mouthing of things akin to ‘molon labe’ is, well, just talk.
Support a known domestic enemy because your party offers him/her as your ‘lesser turd choice’, and you go with it…what that makes you is crystal-clear.
Pfft.
If I was confident on our chances in the Presidential election maybe I would be tempted, but you can’t be for the cause and also be ok with the progressives (not dems) sweeping the executive, legislative and fill the open seat in SCOTUS and take that over too. If that were to happen only a struggle outside the ballot box would be able to reverse the damage we will see and I don’t want that to happen, therefore need to vote in Toomey to keep them in check.
Unfortunately, Toomey has done very little to keep the current administration in check now. He’ll do it even less if reelected, especially considering his support from anti-gun groups.
Remember Arlen Specter and consider this will be worse.
If “Pennsylvanians for Self Protection” do not endorse Toomey, that’s the same as endorsing Mcginty and Clinton…am i doing it right?
This was my first thought when I read that title…