This axe attack went down in the United Kingdom, where Her Majesty’s Government forbids subjects from using firearms for defense of property or self. No word on whether the Land of Hope and Glory will now move to ban axes. At the moment, there’s “common sense” axe control . . .
Martyn at bushcraftuk.com:
Axes, by their nature are more powerful and intimidating when used as a weapon, than a knife. It’s understandable that in some circumstances, carrying an axe might cause eyebrows to raise before carrying a knife would. If you are sensitive to that and moderate your behaviour accordingly, and you have a reasonable reason for having one about you in the first place, you should have no problems carrying an axe of any size – in fact in some circumstances a really big axe might be more acceptable than an itty-bitty one. There are other things that affect perception as well as context and behaviour, such as appearance, age, police history etc.
And carrying on a motorcycle, presumably.
But…..but….without guns there’d be no crime. Violence doesn’t exist without guns, just ask bloomie or rahm.
Dear Robert:
Maybe you missed the point.
They used the axe to break the window – not to threaten someone.
So you’re inside a jewelry store. Three guys roll up on motorcycles. With axes. They bash in the window. You don’t want to be armed?
Missed the point? Guys drive their Motorcycles into a mall, masked, wield axes, bust the jewelry store glass display cases, and you think this was non-threatening? You see no reason to stop this crime? If they didn’t mean harm, why the axes? Did you watch their behavior? This is armed robbery, period. They should have been taken to task for this criminal behavior.
Sorry, but it is not a concealed weapon holder’s job to stop a smash and grab robbery if lives are not endangered. These guys didn’t endanger anybody, just tried to look menacing with a big bad axe. I would feel better armed, but saw no reason these guys should have been shot.
Insanity as to your comments that they didn’t “endanger anyone”. Let’s ignore the robbery aspect entirely, riding street motorcycles through a pedestrian mall that is unquestionably populated with the elderly and young children is terrifyingly dangerous.
They did threaten people with axes – that is why 2 of the men who waited outside the store faced their respective flows of pedestrian traffic and held axes to keep people away. To claim that they didn’t do anything to justify being shot is to claim that you cannot justify a shooting until you are literally under the shadow of a blade. It’s a silly argument.
What’s next “officer, I walked into a bank with a shotgun not because I wanted to threaten anyone, but because I needed a way to open locked doors”. Please….
The criminals did not show any aggressively threatening action with the axe, only waving around to keep people away. Huge difference. Please tell me riding a motorcycle through a mall does not justify shooting these guys.
gringito,
No, you missed the point and obviously cannot read body language. These people are a threat. They did use an axe to break the window, but at the :30, :50, :58, 1:06 parts of the video the person wielding the axe is using it to threaten people who are off camera. In the :50 part the person holding the axe even appears to be gesturing to someone to stay back. There is no doubt that if someone tried to interfere with this robbery, they would have ended up as an axe casualty. Someone who has a CCW could have been able to put a stop to this, whether or not firing shots is necessary (even the act of drawing a gun can be a deterrent). Robert also makes another valid point in his reply to you. If you’re in a store when 3 guys roll up with axes and start bashing in windows, wouldn’t you like to be able to defend yourself? You don’t know these people’s intentions, maybe they want to take jewelry AND lives. If the store owner were allowed to carry a gun, that person could have defended himself, his patrons and his property. Its always better to have a gun and not need it, then to need a gun and not have it.
Wow, you’re being ironic, you have to be making a joke; no human being can look at that video and not see a band of ancient ax weilding raiders riding up on thier horses pillaging and plundering ready to deal out bloody death with that premiere weapon of war the war ax.
The only thing missing is the raiders setting the stores on fire and grabbing a woman to take back to thier tents for a little gang rape.
People have not changed; pick any time in history; the weapons change but the story remains the same; the violent / strong will rule the many with whatever tool they choose to use; the non-violent/ weak will cower in fear and allow themselves to be brutalized because they won’t fight back.
Most governments are just Ax weilding thugs under the color of law.
True that. If I had been there as a legal concealed weapon holder, whether as an employee or customer, a shooting would not have been appropriate.
Says who? I don’t feel a need to stand around while being threatened with an ax to learn whether they really don’t mean to hurt me or not. Were I there and armed, I would have run as fast as I could to get a better shot to kill as many as I could. And the law would be on my side in Texas or anywhere else in any state where you can legally carry.
I just don’t understand how anyone can get a license to carry and come to your conclusion.
Is there something wrong with running in the opposite direction??? These guys didn’t threaten anybody. They smashed and grabbed and tried to look menacing. Not all of us who are licensed run TOWARDS a smash and grab, some of us go the other way.
I just don’t understand how anyone can get a license to carry and come to your conclusion.
If you’re IN THE STORE and there are men armed with axes pouring into the store and guarding the door, you cannot safely leave the store or run away.
It’s also appropriate to mention that their conduct constitutes a false imprisonment if there was no reasonable way to leave the store (e.g. a back door). You’re free to use lethal force to stop unlawful false imprisonment or kidnapping.
Standing in the back of the store with these guys cleaning out the loot and waving around an axe in the pedestrian walkway does not justify shooting them. If they advance towards me with an axe, of course it’s shooting time.
Stories like these don’t even make me bat an eyelash anymore. All the Brits who supported turning their country into a politically correct nanny state are getting exactly what they deserve with criminals and hooligans running amok.
Not used for threatening? Ooh, now I see – that clears that up. Robert must feel pretty silly, right?!
So long as the middle class can’t vent its frustration with things that go bang the Dukes and boffins are content. They don’t hang around the high street. The City gets well-armed cops. Everyone else? Not so much. Average 911-equivalent call response in the small towns is greater than 15 minutes.
The crazy thing is that even if you have the skill and courage to defend yourself against the axe with say, a sword or spear, you will still probably go to prison over there for a longer time than the maniacs who robbed the place in the first place.
If all axes are banned, all axe violence will disappear. It’s just common sense. Just like their common-sense gun laws. It all just magically disappears. I believe it because the brady bunch sez so.
Eventually, after they are done banning rocks, pointed sticks, and angry looks, they will have to ban strong people and tall people.
Ridiculous question of the day; at what point will the UK ban gravity, as it is involved in the majority of crimes wherein someone is knocked or pushed down?
AWESOME logic added to the soul of wit;brevity!
Thank you, Hannibal’s bro!
The UK is kind of scary.
I used to post over at a Bushcrafting forum in the UK until I made the mistake of referring to a firearm as a “weapon.” Apparently they were afraid of how the web site might be listed or viewed by the powers that be if guns or knives where called weapons, so my post was edited and I was asked not to refer to them in that manner in the future. I kid you not.
NRA Instructor training takes this same approach. It’s not a “weapon”. It’s a “firearm”, a “gun”, and so on.
Oh yeah;
Horsehockey!
Maybe they should also ban motorcycles since if bikes were outlawed only outlaws would have them and it would make it easier for police to round them all up.
+1
You beat me to it.
That was pretty damn cool!
The Vikings are still raiding England. With the same level of success. Damn, it must be depressing to be an English male.
I keep an axe in my home for those just in case moments. I used to keep it under my car seat to use as a self-rescue device, since it can slice through a jammed seat belt or smash out a car window with ease. The axe is also an almost perfect weapon. It cuts like a knife, it chops like a veg-o-matic, and it even has a less-than-lethal hammer side. To me, knives are scary (especially BFKs), but axes are the scariest all-around tools ever made. Everyone should own a good axe. And a BFK. And a gun.
I have never managed to keep an axe sharp enough to easily slice through a seat belt. I’m not sure if that part of your post was sarcasm or not- because I keep a seat belt cutter in each of my cars. It’s a good idea, but if anyone tries it with an axe, especially an axe sharp enough to do the job, and then rolls their car? Could be pretty messy, unless your car came equipped with special axe mounting brackets.
The decisive questions are not “YOU don’t want to be armed?” or “wouldn’t you like to be able to defend yourself?”, since a) I AM armed and ABLE to defend myself and b) this questions are highly simplistic and stereotypic.
The decisive question is if these axe-wielding folks were an IMMINENT danger.
AS FAR AS I CAN SEE FROM THE VIDEO (i.e. from a very limited source of information) no one was in imminent danger, not even to the “people off camera” or someone who was ordered “to stay back”. This is mere speculation. We don’t KNOW it.
The only imminent danger (in this particular case) would be if somebody would run DELIBERATELY into these guy. As far as I can see from the video, nobody did.
One should not forget that the best tactic to avoid violence and danger sometimes (!) is to retreat and avoid the risk of a conflict. My concealed carry gun is LAST resort.
I may not like what I see in this video but as a private cotizen I should not try to enforce the law or play the hero.
Naturally, if these guys would threaten my life and my physical integrity with their axes and I still have time to react they would get what they deserve! This is beyond any doubt.
I’m sick of my country, where I have to sit around for 20 minutes crying “Hayelp, hayelp” like Penope Pitstop, while criminals have their wicked way with my life and property. And for the stand and waiters? “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” Burke, attrib.
Who deputized you Juan?
@NotToo: Sir Robert Peel, “The police are the public and the public are the police”
Edit: I really have had enough of this crazy message board inability to put replies where they are supposed to go.