There has been considerable discussion online about the new pistol arm brace that SIG SAUER was showing off at the NRA Annual Meeting this past weekend, specifically some concerns that the ATF will rescind their approval of the device, and I wanted to get to the bottom of the theories and rumors. Over the past couple days I’ve talked with people “in the know” about this new product and its legal implications, and I wanted to put to rest some of the myths and misconceptions about this product, the ATF’s technology branch and possible legal implications.
When a product is sent to the ATF’s technology branch to be investigated (as in, when an inventor wants some feedback on the legality of a product), the only thing that can be considered is the stated specific intended use of the product. They cannot contemplate possible mis-uses of the product, they can only evaluate it based on the designed usage. And should that product be mis-used by the consumers, they cannot take retroactive action based on that mis-use.
From what I can see, this product hasn’t changed at all since it was originally sent to the ATF for approval. Even though the pictures of the original design look more orange-y in color, according to what the designer has posted online it was made from a tough rubber-like compound. At the NRA Annual Meeting, that same description (tough rubber-like compound) applies to the final iteration of the product as well. So even though the color changed, nothing about the product (from the material to the overall shape) has changed. Therefore, since it is the same product that was given the green light by the ATF, they will not reconsider their approval.
That’s what people seem to be most concerned about, that the ATF will re-consider their approval and possibly rescind it. The fear mostly comes from the old Akins Accelerator issue, when the ATF issued a letter of approval to the inventor and then later classified his final product as illegal. In that instance, however, the design of the device (a spring kit, like the current generation of bump fire stocks, but one that automatically moved the rifle forward without the user applying pressure) changed significantly between when it was submitted to the ATF and when it hit the shelves. The version submitted to the ATF was perfectly fine, but the commercial version was apparently unacceptable. Anyway, that’s the ATF’s story and they’re sticking to it.
In this case, we have a device that is nearly identical to the one submitted for ATF approval. And even if people do actually start using the thing as a stock, how is that any different from using the buffer tube like a stock? How many people who own a pistol AR-15 have put that little buffer tube up to their shoulder and fired it? If the ATF hasn’t re-classified the AR-15 pistol (or even just the padded buffer tube) as a rifle already, it doesn’t really make sense for them to do it with this new device either.
What we have here is a device that was intended expressly to help people aim and fire pistol AR-15s and similar handguns. In fact, the designer stated that the original intent was to allow some disabled veterans who owned such firearms to aim and fire them easier. And based on that good faith statement of purpose, the ATF approved the device. The device is being marketed in that same manner, and the accompanying instruction manuals will no doubt emphasize the proper usage. And in the eyes of the ATF, if a designer and manufacturer produce and market an acceptable product, it isn’t a reflection on the product itself if the end users mis-use their device.
In short, while this absolutely looks like a stock, and can be used as such, these guys have gone the distance to lay the legal groundwork such that the ATF cannot go back on their statements and make these illegal. Even if they did start going on a crusade against NFA-defying devices, the bumpfire stock would be the canary in the coalmine; not something produced by a company that employs a battalion of lawyers.
There is, however, a way for this device to become illegal. Politicians, should they become suitably peeved at this affront to some “common sense” ideal, might try to get it banned in their areas. However, there are currently no such restrictions that I know about, and the process to get such a law enacted would be much longer and typically open for public scrutiny. Even then, banning this specific device would definitely be very low on their list of gun control priorities.
In short, this wrist brace is here to stay.
Ugh! Yuck! Bleah!
Suspending a second grader for playing. What is this, North Korea? I dream of a day when people like Mr. Whitney face jail time for their actions, and I have a dream of a day when kids can be kids again.
Nick, what about the original GSG5-SD “barrel shroud” issue? These were approved and imported and only after over a year for sale were they “deemed to be a silencer” and required to have everyone who owned one turn in their silencer tube for destruction and issued a non-silencer tube in it’s place. These tubes were to spec as to the importation docs and were administratively, retroactively classed as an NFA item, though ATI had to foot the bill to replace them.
ATI was never given anything they could post that spelled out what happened from the ATF. Best we ever received was an MS-Paint drawing of what the “bad” ones looked like and how the “good” ones fixed the problem.
They approved the shroud until it was measured reducing the decible level of the rifle. The ATF approved a barrel shroud and ATI accidentally imported a bunch of silencers based on that approval.
It’d be analogous to being given approval to import a bunch of 14.5″ Saigas with perm attached muzzle breaks to 16.1″ only to find out the importer used Rocksett and not a legal pin and weld.
I dislike the ATF as much as anyone, but it’s necessary to look at the technical side of things before jumping on the hate wagon. I don’t see the ATF trying to screw with a company as large and established and with as many lawyers as Sig has. Plus, IIRC Sig makes the ATF’s sidearms.
Oh, the depravity of it all.
ATF is not to be trusted. Even if you get it in writing, ATF reserves the right to toss you in jail without ever really explaining why. Unless ATF decides they need to prove a point, then they’ll come in gun blazing.
You joke about banning pop spelling tests because kids are threatened by them. It is worse than that: I taught at a supposedly “elite” “progressive” high school and we weren’t allowed to give pop quizzes because they fostered an “adversarial environment” between students and teachers. I don’t work there any more because I made the kids do homework and take tests and that wasn’t sufficently “progressive”.
Interesting side note – the picture at the top of this post shows the pistol brace mounted on a Sig P556, not a P516 (Sig’s AR-15 pistol design). The P556 uses a long stroke piston and therefore does not need a buffer tube to catch the bolt on its trip back.
So, someone evidently removed the cap at the back of the P556 and screwed in a buffer tube then wrapped this gizmo around it.
Bravo NRA. It is about time! Well it has been time but now they figured it out. I do not think this is window dressing. The NRA as others understand that Women, and minorities will change the opinion of the masses. Wayne can not and does not speak for all, and by opening their doors, and making it so they are truly diverse only then will the impact be felt. As more get skin in the game, they will become one issue voters, and will push for gun rights.
She should have declared that every Arizonan is a member of the militia at some token base rank.
-D
Self Defense tip: learn how to sprint and lose weight!
That gents, is some fun a$$ Simunition training. I’ve said it before on TTAG – achieve 100% hits while running, against a running target, which may be shooting back, and you have every right to give a massive ration of sh!t to anyone who misses in a DGU.
And FYI – you really have to resist the urge to punch role players. One of my biggest sins was kicking in an unlocked door at a training house. Oops! I got a righteous chewing out for that.
Does anyone here have that under-the-bed quick-access rifle/shotgun case?
Do you like it? What’s good? Bad?
Thinking of buy, but don’t like the keypad (prefer biometric — and no damn beeps!)
Kind funny story… When I was a kid (16 or so) my mom and dad remodeled their bedroom and needed to move all the stuff out of it for a few months. Dad moved the gun case into my room. That was not a safe, but a cabinet with no lock, and a drawer on the bottom full of ammo and cleaning supplies (he kept the pistol beside the bed). Within was my great grandfather’s 30/40 Krag. Playing with the action on that silky smooth old bolt got me interested in engineering.