The Wilson Combat pimping video below was produced by Mike Seeklander’s Warrior Society (not to be confused with the Jewish support group the Worrier Society). Mr. Seeklander illustrates the advantages of having a short barreled rifle for car defense, primarily . . .
the fact that the barrel isn’t long. So you can swing it around inside the car to, you know, aim at bad guys. He also recommend THAT YOU ATTACH A SILENCER. Roger that.
What Mr. Seeklander fails to mention: your car is a really good weapon.
And always make sure you can see tarmac and the tires of the car in front of your vehicle. That gives you room to maneuver, so you have a good chance of escaping bad sh*t, rather that shooting your way out of it.
Mr. Seeklander also fails to address the issue of storing an SBR’ed AR in your car. Oh that? That’s my rifle officer. God bless America!
I’ve got one word for all this: Mogadishu.
And . . . goggles, not just glasses, goggles, or else you’ll be eating it through your eyes.
And. . . air bag. Never tried it, but I’ve heard some scary anecdotes, not that a weapon has caused one to fire, but that Lone-Ranger-ing an AR through the windshield is an easy way to tunnel vision your way off the road.
P.S. – liked the ‘worrier society’ what’s their logo? a granny on the phone?
Yeah… shooting out of a car sucks ass. I’ve done some stages with a cut-down AKM and I had several malfunctions just because the charging handle was more or less rapping me on the knuckles every time I pulled the trigger. Goggles, not quite essential if you have good full-wrap shades, but the brass definitely punked the RO in the face when he wasn’t paying attention.
M1 Carbine for the win!
bs, you wont HAVE the longarm in the car (in time) and if you fire it without a silencer or ear protetion, you wont be hitting anything with subsequent shots you fire, guaraneed, cause your brains will be leaking out of your shattered eardrums. A car is VERY slow to get moving. In the 2 seconds that it takes you to get that car moved 50 ft from a dead stop, the carjacker can pump 8 rds into you, quite easily. The idea that you’re going to move your car (in time) is a crock. They wait until you’re hemmed in by other cars. The only viable answer is to act like you’re letting them have the car, then shoot them when you get the chance.
Or, you know, just let them have the car. No property is worth your life or that of others around you. If your life is truly endanger then sure. But one of the principal rules of self-defense gun fighting is “never draw on a drawn weapon.” You are going to lose that fight 99% of the time. If the jacker has possession of your vehicle already and you are free of it…let them go. Firing at them after the fact is not self-defense anymore anyway.
I would think any good lawyer or police investigation would ask, “did you try to drive away first when you were threatened”? Also I think that a 2000 pound steel car is more accurate than a firearm when you ram them with your “assault” (weapon) vehicle.
The best way to win a gun fight is to avoid it in the first place. We all know violence can happen anywhere. But certain places and neighborhoods are more prone than others.
If it is true that the driver in Charlottesville Virginia was shot at before he drove into the crowd of antifa protesters then I would say that driver as a very good case for self-defense. Because he didn’t have a firearm. All he had was his car.
“I would think any good lawyer or police investigation would ask, “did you try to drive away first when you were threatened”?”
Know the laws where you are.
In Florida, AFAIK, I have no ‘duty to retreat’ if where I am it is lawful for me to be there. The ‘Stand Your Ground’ bonus.
Public roads are, for the most part, lawful places for nearly anyone to be…
In the video you can see the driver could have made a right turn a block before he came into contact with people. In fact the street was so full how is that an escape route? If you listen to the audio he is accelerating not seeking escape.
We don’t have to defend this guy. He wasn’t in imminent danger. This isn’t a who has a right to protest discussion. Everyone there did. He was irresponsible “assault car” of the day user. 🙂
I think a handgun is far better since you can maneuver is easier and still have one hand on the steering wheel so you can get out of there.
How about a Glock 21 in .460 Rowland?
Driving through the desert in northern Nevada, I would stop frequently to shoot yodel dogs out the drivers window. Worked OK with my Steyr AUG, but the hot brass made for some interesting burn/melt marks…
Doesn’t anyone make an attachable-detachable Kevlar fabric ‘brass catcher’ bag kinda thing for the ejection port?
Caldwell makes one that slides on to a mount attached to the picatinny rail. They also make one that velcro’s to the forearm. I have both and like the mounted over the velcro. Less moving around and easier to get good placement of the catcher.
I have the rail mounted one and usually leave it unzipped, unless on grass. It works to prevent my brass from flying all over the place and it can’t fill up and cause a jam. Also, the synthetic mesh can melt stuck to mouth of the case sometimes.
I have that happen to me as well. At any rate, it sure beats chasing brass all over the place!
Yeah… Don’t try that in a slave state. 🤣
Uh… ever heard of a ‘hand-gun’?
Also, if you’re whole point of having an SBR is for automotive combat, why wouldn’t you choose a bull-pup?
No kidding. It’d be more power in the same or smaller package, less muzzle blast, and you wouldn’t need to explain to a jury why you used one of those evil NFA guns to defend yourself. Not to mention the cost of the stamp and inability to cross state lines.
The most important thing to remember about shooting any firearm from inside a vehicle. Is to have the barrel outside of the vehicle. I knew a guy who shot a 357 magnum from inside a combine cab at a deer while picking corn. He couldn’t hear shit for 3 days.
Did he at least get the deer?
The world was well aware of these advantages, until stopped by a government decree in 1934.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ithaca_Auto_%26_Burglar
Exactly the point I was going to make.
There isn’t enough profanity in the world to express my dislike for this kind of stupid law. And there’s a lot of profanity in the world.
I always get a chuckle out of this “super operator” training. Ok you’ve engaged the tangos but now you gotta get your arse off the X, how you gonna do that super trooper? You ain’t seein sh!t out that windshield. Oh you gonna kick it out? Ok try gettin your ham hock up there in a modern car without adjusting the seat. Yeah what I thought Mr. Highspeed. You just exploded a ham string tryin to turn yourself into a contortionist.
Listen up guys, gals, attack helicopters; your car has three things in it that will get you out of this situation without swiss cheesing your windshield or even firing a shot. Right now I need you (yes you put down the beer for a sec.) to go out to your vehicle and locate the following:
1. STEERING WHEEL- the big roundy thing poking out of the dash that makes your car go left or right.
Got it? See it? Ok now on to the next.
2. GEAR SHIFT- ok this one might be tough it can be many things. A button, knob, or lever sticking out of the floor, dash, or tube your steering wheel is attached to. This can make your car go forwards, backwards, or not move at all depending on setting.
Ok you found it? Good job but don’t celebrate yet there’s one thing left.
3. GAS PEDAL- this is almost always the long pedal on the right that causes your vehicle to make vroom vroom noises. It helps control your speed and makes your vehicle go faster or get louder depending on gear shift setting.
Ok you use these all together to move your vehicle out of the ambush area and away from danger. No shooting required.
#practicaltactical
How did you know I was drinking a beer?!?
Because according to such luminaries as Brooks & Dunn and Jimmy Buffett, it’s beer-thirty Honky Tonk Time and It’s 5 o’clock Somewhere.
That and at 9:15 on Friday night what else is there to do if you have kids, no friends, or a general dislike for humanity?
‘(yes you put down the beer for a sec.)’
Blasphemy! And on a Friday night no less. You sir should be ashamed of yourself.
Hey! You gotta put down the empty to get a full one so we all know you’re capable of putting down a beer. So put it down, stop groping the stripper (she don’t love you, you’re not the best/only/first she ever had, and they call her Cinnamon Cavern for a reason), and pick up some knowledge.
This, get hell away and call police. It’s what they are being paid for. Bonus points if you can get a license tag number for that 911 call once you’re safe.
Not quite. That was what they USED to get paid for.
In 2018 the police are paid to; show up, shoot at anything in sight(missing about 98% of the time) that they feel like, and then confiscate any property they can find worth something for “civil asset forfeiture” which happens to make up about 50% of their average budget.
This is in the USSA, OFC. Some other places are more sane.
My car has a super-secret-squirrel-operator-pedal called a “clutch”.
I didn’t know they still made those.
They don’t in a lot of (probably most) models. That’s an extra $500-$1,000 I could have spent on guns. (Not really, because that’s not how my budget works, but it’s still money I could have used).
Is that where you put your feet thru the floor thingy and run them along the street to move the car?
Flintstones or Little Tykes reference?
I spent a lot of time on gun forums and internet blogs defending the Sig brace when it first came out. I was also an early adopter of the 300blk when I purchased an original 9” AAC 300blk pistol. My state prohibits carrying a loaded rifle in the cab of a motor vehicle. But there are no such limitation on a pistol. I can also carry concealed on my person (ex: a backpack), and across state lines…all with my permit to carry. And my caliber preference for Home Defense and in very,very rare circumstances, in the car is 300blk based on versatility. The larger sub bullets are Hollywood quiet when suppressed removing the necessitiy for hearing pro during a defensive encounter where time and situational awareness is key. And still, the lighter supers give me capabilities to extended ranges that will never be realistic or justifiable in any self defense scenario. Truth is, there are really no (or extremely rare and limited) circumstances where shooting past 75 yards or so is going to be considered justifiable. But I’m covered with 300blk, just in case.
Hollywood quiet? How did you pull that off?
If you have a suppressor for a .223 even it can be made almost “Hollywood” quiet by running sub-sonics. Only problem is that in a AR you have to manually cycle. 3 grains of Titegroup under a 55 grain bullet will do it.
I have a suppressed 9″ AAC .300 blk SBR, and with 220g subs, the “clackety-clack” of the action is disturbing. Considering one of the many solutions, any of which would leave it “Hollywood quiet” pew-pew.
I have a Liberty Cosmic that will handle quite a few calibers, .458 SOCOM included, that does a great job on the .223 as well as the .45 ACP I originally bought it for. I do plan on getting a Fixed Barrel Adaptor for the .458 upper I built end of last year and look forward to quieting it down as well.
Public Service Announcement:
As to your rifle that isn’t, I’d be careful of state definitions of rifle/handgun if you are relying on it to be considered a handgun for legal purposes.
More than a few comments here suggest that the shooter should have drove away or avoided the contact in the first place. What if he couldn’t? There are several scenarios where a vehicle can be disabled or pinned. Sometimes, shooting your way out a bad situation starts while you are sitting in the driver’s seat.
I have been to a few schools on the tax-payer’s dime that have taught this important skill. Obviously, avoidance or E&E is a preferred solution. Sometimes, the bad guys don’t cooperate and you find yourself forced to fight your way out. Suppressed SBRs and bullpup style weapons are great choices for obvious reasons.
If he couldn’t, shoot the mofo and then drive away.
Short barrel but fully extended stock? Why do people do that?
Shockwave…… Ta Da!!
I have trouble taking this kind of shit seriously. Did that guy just say I should get a suppressor in case I need this SBR while I’m driving around with my wife and kids on a Sunday? Fucking really?
Where the fuck am I going to need that thing while on a family drive? Moga-motherfucking-dishu? I mean are you really that scared of the crack-ninja attack that you’re driving around with your family in the car with your suppressed SBR at the ready to engage tangos through the windshield at a moment’s notice? Does your whole family rock plate carriers while out of the house? Seriously, what the actual fuck?
This shit is getting past the point of stupid and getting really close to Gecko45 status. Too goddamn close for my comfort.
Did you bring the grenades this time?
Grenades!!! Hell RPG, two of them.
Yes sometimes we take this too far, a pistol should be fine. If you have a rifle in the car I think you are looking for trouble. But if the Zombies come it maybe needed.
Posers. Everybody knows you wire claymores to the front, back, sides and roof of your car.
Strych, I am afraid I am going to be forced to reevaluate your status as an operational operator, operating operationally.
Better choice would be an AR-15 Pistol. Since it is a pistol, there are no NFA issues with transportation across state lines and it is legal to carry in an automobile under Concealed Carry Laws.
I was making this point earlier, but be sure of your state’s laws before making these decisions.
I don’t know if an AR pistol with a brace is a handgun or a rifle in Texas. Texas defines handgun to mean “any firearm that is designed, made, or adapted to be fired with one hand.” Being honest, I don’t think that the pistol with a brace meets that definition, and just because the feds say such a weapon is a pistol, doesn’t bind state courts to that interpretation. Also being honest, I don’t think any guns fit that definition. Sure, handguns can be easily fired with one hand, but that’s not the best practice. It’s a really stupid definition. The feds did a better job on definitions that are meaningful. An gun with a pistol brace is probably a short-barrel firearm under Texas law, but doesn’t require NFA registration because of a change to the law brought about by the Mossberg Shockwave.
Furthermore, it matters here because the laws on handguns are more restrictive even if you have an LTC. If I had the time, I’d consider writing a law review/mcle paper on the subject. I’d definitely do the research.
Since an AR pistol brace is designed to assist an AR Pistol to be held and fired by the use of a single hand an AR pistol with a brace as defined would appear to be defined as a handgun both under Federal and Illinois law.
Illinois Law: (430 ILCS 66/) Firearm Concealed Carry Act.
“Handgun” means any device which is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosion, expansion of gas, or escape of gas that is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand. “Handgun” does not include:
(1) a stun gun or taser;
(2) a machine gun as defined in item (i) of paragraph (7) of subsection (a) of Section 24-1 of the Criminal Code of 2012;
(3) a short-barreled rifle or shotgun as defined in item (ii) of paragraph (7) of subsection (a) of Section 24-1 of the Criminal Code of 2012; or
(4) any pneumatic gun, spring gun, paint ball gun, or B-B gun which expels a single globular projectile not exceeding .18 inch in diameter, or which has a maximum muzzle velocity of less than 700 feet per second, or which expels breakable paint balls containing washable marking colors.
================================================
As referenced above. the Illinois Criminal Code of 2012, Section 24-1 (a), paragraph (7), item (ii), reads as follows:
ii any rifle having one or more barrels less than 16 inches in length or a shotgun having one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length or any weapon made from a rifle or shotgun, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if such a weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches; or
Just as the Mossberg Shockwave was never a shotgun, the AR Pistol never was a rifle.
Nevertheless, since laws are constantly changing, as are court interpretations and rulings, it is always best to check frequently on things like this.
The question is will (or better yet, has) an Illinois court rule that your AR pistol was “designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand.” They are not bound by an ATF determination. The ATF determination isn’t even on point. The ATF determination is that the braces were not designed etc. to be shouldered.
I simply advise caution and seek to inform why I advise caution. In sum, gun laws are stupid and needlessly complicated; be careful out there, especially while traveling.
Come on folks, I have not seen a place in the USA that requires I drive around with an SBR and suppresser. Believe me I have been in some bad places while shopping for various sources of fun. What’s next, I quit shopping and start going on patrol every Sunday with my wife. “Hey babe I am gonna dismount our POV and refill my camelback. If I give the signal start shooting the windshield.”
FUCK ME SIDEWAYS!!!
These guys make their living selling fear and pandering to the “super operators” and mall ninjas. This whole video is completely pointless for every citizen of the USA who is not a LEO or stationed overseas in the military. Teaching civilians to carry a pistol and have situational awareness (OODA loop) only lasts for so long, then they’re out of work.
I live in New Jersey when confrounted with a threat we are required by law to get out of our vehicles and leave the keys in them so the bad guys can take the car far away. We don’t really call them bad guys but more of involuntary urban valets. Upon successful evacuation we can call the police after we count to 100 if we remembered our cell phones but most valets request we leave them our cell phones as well as our wallets for their enjoyment.
Maybe one day the law will change but as it stands your looking at 10 years in prison if you have a firearm on your person and the government likes to add 18 months per hollow point round that maybe in your piece. Only FMJ in our hoods please.
I had some idiot come at me while stuck in traffic with a tire iron. I stuck my handgun out the window and told him ( come closer I don’t want to miss ) he got message loud and clear. Man that was a fun time in NYC and I have more encounters of the stupid kind
Just go through the sunroof lime you’re supposed to with the rifle.
It would be hard for me not to choose a larger bore with a barrel that short. I have trouble getting past that in this video. I suppose I am a bit neurotic about efficiency and tailoring. I realize that not having relevant combat experience and not having studied such fighting, I may be wrong about what would be most appropriate.
Two words
Trunk Monkey
Mine’s a chupacabra. It’s more expensive but it gets more psychological stops.
From first hand experience, I know that it is very hard to hit anything with your rifle from inside a moving car. And that’s if you’re on smooth asphalt. Its almost impossible to do if you’re on a dirt or gravel road.
It gets much harder to shoot if you’re also the driver.
Reminds me of that episode of Criminal Minds where Agent Morgan goes full auto with an MP5 through the windshield of the Suburban he’s riding in.
Shooting a Short Barreled Rifle From Inside SOMEONE ELSE’S Vehicle? Totally.
Mine? Never.
I do remember hearing about a family that went down the wrong dead in street in LA. The gang members took exception to them being in there hood, and killed them all.
After having a similar experience in a very bad part of St Louis while on vacation, I do take my 300 black out pistol with me on all future vacations in unknown cities.
I too had a similar experience on a trip to St Louis – went down a street that looked good on the map but deteriorated the farther we drove to the point we noticed that all the buildings had bars on the windows. It was midnight on a summer Saturday night, a white couple driving a red Corvette, and by the angry stares we were getting from the natives, we must have looked out of place. Sure was glad to have my .45 ACP on me as we started rolling stop lights to get out of there.
While your first option is to drive away, as others point out that’s not always an option due to traffic, pedestrians or the condition of the vehicle.
As I have pointed out elsewhere, if someone opens up on you in a vehicle with either a handgun or a rifle, the likelihood is that you’re going to get hit and either die or not be able to respond. Which is why it’s considered better to drive away – if that’s possible.
However, the tactical courses I’ve seen on Youtube show that the best approach – if you can’t drive away – is first to open fire from within the vehicle, then exit the vehicle to either find cover or at least go low or prone behind the most defensible part of the vehicle (usually the front engine block), then continue to return fire.
Again, if you’re being fired on with either full auto or fast semi-auto by one or more attackers, taking the time to return fire might or might not be the best approach. Diving out of the vehicle is probably better, provided you can dive out on a side opposite the attacker.
If that’s not feasible because you’re surrounded, then either returning fire or bending over and kissing your butt good-bye might be the only option.
The key point is that both handgun and rifle bullets will pass through almost everything on a car except the engine block. While the windshield slant might cause some deflection, most bullets will penetrate the driver compartment – and then your driver can’t drive you away.
Personally I don’t see a lot of use for SBR’s in any caliber (except maybe for concealed carry in special circumstances where’re you’re expecting trouble and need a higher caliber weapon than a handgun) and normally having one in the car is problematic on a lot of levels.
Either carry a handgun (or more than one with appropriate levels of backup ammo) or if expecting this sort of trouble carry a bullpup or full-size rifle and learn to use it inside a confined space.
And yeah, expect to go deaf if you have to fire either because you won’t have time to put earplugs in.
I would agree with the above comments on flooring it and running over/ramming the threat, but sadly, my personal vehicle is not Mad Max ready and the only thing between my radiator and the bad guy, is a bit of flimsy plastic. Old flimsy plastic, at that. I can sort of push things, but not ram.
That said, however, I do carry my pistol with me at all times. My folks say I’m paranoid. I say, I’d rather have my gun and not need it, than need my gun and not have it.
Also, my windshield needs replacing anyways.
Also, in every shooting training that involves cars or glass, wear a god damn respirator. Some cheap thing from the hardware store will do.
You remember this asbestos thingy? Yeah? That was SiO2 fiber, and broken glass is… SiO2 dust. Whoever shoots through a windshield without airway protection is begging for lung cancer.
WOW! I really don’t worry about anyone wanting to carjack me or stealing my truck. I have a Factory non-electronic anti theft device in my vehicle, therefore I can leave the doors unlocked and I do not worry about it being stolen or carjacked. My special anti theft device?, a manual transmission with “Three on the tree shifter” and a clutch pedal. Any millennial would not know how to find (drive) and abandon efforts to stealing the truck. This feature also saves me from people wanting to borrow my truck to move their furniture.
I know plenty of millennials who learned to drive on standards. At least five, and I don’t go around asking people if they learned on a stick. Also, I know a bunch more that know how to drive a stick, but may have learned on an automatic.
I gave up on Seeklander a long time ago and wish Wilson Combat would do the same.