duane liptak magpul NRA
courtesy youtube.com
Previous Post
Next Post

Duane Liptak is executive vice president of Magpul Industries and a member of the NRA board of directors. He’s published an open letter to the gun community at Ammoland making the case for unity and continued support of the National Rifle Association by those of us who value our gun rights.

As some have said here and in other venues, the pro-gun community is fractious and can frequently be its own worst enemy. Given the latest efforts to enact gun control legislation at the federal level — “assault weapons” bans, red flag laws, universal background checks, bump stock bans — it’s more important than ever for those of us on the pro-2A side to be pulling in the same direction.

I get that some folks will call me full of it, or claim “the NRA is in full damage control” or whatever, but this isn’t an NRA statement. This is a statement from me, a very, very zealous advocate for extreme libertarian gun rights, with an understanding of the current political landscape. Take it as you will, but please put aside your prejudices for just a moment to read, because if we can’t get everyone pushing in the same direction, we can’t beat the disarm-America-movement, because they are more than willing to get together to achieve our ruin.

In any of this commentary, I’m speaking for myself, not for the NRA.

I have to use that disclaimer, as I’m speaking out of turn, and this is MY PERSONAL understanding of the events and information, not official NRA position. I suppose some of this information could also be potentially damaging to future efforts because it lays out some reasoning and strategy, but it’s to a point right now where people need to understand some things. The NRA is not just your best defense, they are your ONLY defense. FPC does fantastic legal work, as does SAF. GOA is great at grass roots email activation and they file some amicus briefs and lawsuits. All of them have ZERO capability to interact with lawmakers in a meaningful way more than me running up to DC, which I do a couple times a year. No one else does, period, and that’s why I’m on board with helping to steer the NRA rather than bash it.

As readers here know, the NRA has come in for much criticism on the pro-2A side for its stances on a bump stock ban and red flag laws. Liptak addresses all of that and more.

Standing up and shouting “Not one more inch!” isn’t always the most effective approach in the long game that is defending and extending Second Amendment freedoms. He makes a persuasive case why — love ’em, hate ’em, or somewhere in between — the National Rifle Association is still the best chance gun rights supporters have of fending off the latest feeding frenzy of anti-gun legislation at the state and federal levels.

Be sure to go to Ammoland and read the entire post.

Previous Post
Next Post


  1. Sorry, surrendering more ground as we are pushed closer to the precipice is not my idea of being ‘effective’. The NRA will have my full support when they stop paying their top brass ridiculous salaries and begin working towards removing anti-2A laws and edicts.

    Still waiting on that Hughes repeal they promised…

    • 2 little 2 late.

      If the nra was truly the NRA, then we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

      NRA? Just say no.

      • Yep NRA can eat a whole bag of D’s until they prove their in this fight. With Chris pushing this red flag trash, pictures of Wayne hanging out with Russian spies, the bump stock aka full semiauto ban door they kicked open, plus all they never did and threw us under the bus. It’s now a war of attrition until it ceases to exist or reforms into the no compromise organization it promised to be. We need to be pushing the Goa and others like them to take the NRA’s place while we suffocate our fudd brethren’s organization who will happily negotiate away what little we have left. Legit F the nra.

        • Just pay the King’s tax so we won’t have to fight! He will let some of us keep our stuff if we don’t start a war! They will even give us title! If we fight we could lose it all! At least we know what we will get out of this deal with our master. Think of your families, think of your children. Just pay the tax…

      • The NRA is now the equivalanet of those people who say “I support the second amendment…BUT…”

        No you don’t. If you support bump stock bans, ammo bans, magazine bans, etc you are not in support of the second amendment. The only thing the NRA is in support of doing is paying their top brass ludicrous salaries. My money now goes to SAF and GOA.

        • GUN OWNERS OF AMERICA’s Erich Pratt just said on a ” Guns & Gadgets ” interview that GOA is up to 1.5 Million members and growing.

          It will soon surpass the N.R.A. in every way now that the ratline has been uncovered and people see the NRA is compromised on the inside.

    • Let’s be totally honest here: the NRA has amply demonstrated, time and time again, that their sole strategy is appeasement.

      Appeasement is never a good strategy when your adversary wants total domination over you — and is willing to do pretty much anything to achieve it.

      If a large and very powerful political demographic was working tooth-and-nail to legalize rape — and was even achieving significant milestones on their path to legalized rape — would we all be advocating for “realistic measures given the actual political climate”? Would we be advocating to give them something, like legalized fondling? After all, that still lets women oppose oral sex and penetration — and should placate the rapists and their political supporters for a while. And maybe rapists and their political supporters will be satisfied and stop there.

    • Be nice if the NRA stopped buying all that Chicom swag as “incentive” to renew memberships too. I’m sure that money could be put to better use cause I really don’t need another hat or stupid bag.

      Truth be told though, all these groups that are in the business of trying to get congress critters to support the 2A should stop wasting their members money and start supporting the renewal of militia’s in all 50 states. It’s time we gave our legislators something to really think about.

    • Let he who is without sin; cast the first stone. While not a perfect organization; the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

      If you think any of the other firearms freedom organizations would not develop warts of their own if they were as big as the NRA; you’re fooling yourself. Some of the issues with the NRA; are as a direct result of their size and diverse membership. The bigger they get the harder it is to please all of their members.

      We people of the gun aren’t even all on the same page as to what should be done. Many of us are; but there are many so-called Fuds out there too; and they’re NRA members also.

      It serves no purpose to undermine “the” most recognized organization in this issue. Even if we prefer the stand of the other organizations, they do not have the ability to command like the NRA does due to their membership ranks. If their ranks were swell to the size of the NRA; you will watch their stance change and morph along with their membership ranks, and all you will have done was to set back our cause that much further. It’s shortsighted and feeds right into the plan of the liberals. Should the NRA collaps, there is no other organization that can step in and fill the void, and that vacuum will be filled by the most restrictive gun laws you have ever seen and once they have that foothold, it will be nearly impossible to roll it back wholesale. Divide and conquer is their tactic and by not supporting the NRA, you are playing their game and indirectly assisting the enemy.

      We need to be unified in our approach; without exception. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, even if they are not 100% in synch with my beliefs.

      We must all hang together for we will most assuredly, hang separately.

      • As the man said, we get reports and update on law suits fighting gun restrictions from those “other” pro-constitution organizations. From NRA we get appeals for money.

        You don’t find that a crippling contrast?

        • You disappoint me. The democratic party. The republican party. The libertarian party. The tea party. All suck to some degree. It’s called human nature. If you can’t accept that then you should move to Utah. Oh wait. Make that Montana. Oh wait. Make that Idaho. Oh wait…

          • “You disappoint me. The democratic party. The republican party. The libertarian party. The tea party. All suck to some degree. It’s called human nature. If you can’t accept that then you should move to Utah. Oh wait. Make that Montana. Oh wait. Make that Idaho. Oh wait…”

            Do you have a point to your diatribe, or just noise? What do political parties have to do with my comment?

      • I support NRA, SAF, GOA and the Texas State rifle association. There is more than one gun control group and the anti’s support all of them Do not fall for this divide and conquer crap that I read in these comments. It will take all of our second amendment organizations to fight these idiots so lets support them. You may not always agree on the way things are done but can you imagine the clout we would have if the NRA membership was at say 100 million instead of 5 million. Every organization I have seen will have a small percentage ” pulling the load” while others sit back and criticize and bitch while the few are trying. Seems no different here.

        • It’s the NRA’s fault that their membership is so low. They had 148 years and hundreds of millions (if not billions) of dollars to grow to the size they are. Yet they claim 5 million members out of a country of over 328 million people. There are millions more gun owners not in the NRA than are.

          Why do the majority of gun owners not want to be part of the NRA? Why are there a lot of NRA members leaving or planning to leave? Ask yourself why that is.

          • @ CZJay

            Just now Negotiating Rights Away is realizing they are loosing members and support form said members,what with all the articles by board members trying to tamp down on the decent within membership,gotta keep Wayne,Crises and Ack Mac’s pockets full never mind the second amendment.

        • @CZJay, it’s because most people are cheap bastards who don’t put money towards the political causes they support. Most gun owners aren’t a member of any pro-2A organization, and this says more about their commitment than it does about the organizations. They leave it to the rest of us to carry the water, which we’ll continue doing. But when you advocate reducing the numbers of the NRA, even if you do donate regularly to GOA or SAF (which I doubt), you are playing into the enemies hands or worse.

      • That sounds a lot like the standing army over a militia argument: We should be united in one big standing army under the federal government because militias cannot be victorious over the biggest and most effective army in existence.

      • “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” The person that’s attributed to never actually said that line.

    • Exactly!

      Gunowners of America (GOA) is the NO-COMPROMISE Gun Group in America. There are quotes from the anti-gunners in Congress stating that GOA is much worse than the NRA. That, from them, is the greatest compliment!

      The NRA has a long history of compromise. It is why I left them years ago. I will NEVER rejoin.

    • I’ve lived in Bethel for about 40 years and just recently moved back home to Eagle River to help my 89 year old injured Korean War x2 and Vietnam two tours… he isn’t doing well and it’s probably the Agent Orange he worked around in at least his last tour. My Uncle Joe was a young private in Nam, dad was a Sgt and they got to see each other at least once. Uncle Joe was eaten alive by bone cancer and lied to and ignored by the US government and the VA… I guess things are better now for those who may still be alive.
      And now the NRA has deceived us once again… Maybe Adam Kraut and others could change the course but disappointingly it feels as if the NRA has been bought out. Just my opinion. I already have an Endowment membership and about all I can do is vote and change my choice of magazine.
      My question to you: Seems like about 6-10 years ago, probably because of Obama and Feinstein, the Alaska legislature almost unanimously passed a law preventing the enforcement of stricter gun and magazine and accessories than already existed at the time. Do you remember this? It was before the legislature voted to allow sales and ownership of fully auto opening knives.
      Do you think this would prevent an Alaskan ban on bumpstocks, binary triggers braces and standard capacity and greater magazines? I’ve asked at the Birchwood range but there is no one there who was here when the law was passed. It was quite a big deal at the time and I’m having a hard time getting information from the Troopers or using the Lexus-Nexus based system to search the Statutes.

    • Of course, this is a quote from Thomas Jefferson, who made sure he didn’t shed any of his precious blood. When the British redcoats raided Charlottesville, Jefferson cleared out of Monticello in a hurry.

      • And your point is? Be careful how you answer! Considering he went on to become president. And if we were invaded physically and DC were attacked, would you still damn the President for leaving and not physically fighting the invaders?

  2. Give an inch today, give an inch tomorrow, give an inch the next day, keep on giving until you finally realize you don’t have a lot to give, then look around and find out you’re all alone because you have everyone else up.

    The other side is playing the long game, it works in their favor, The give an inch today so we have an inch to give in the future style of the NRA plays into this game as well.

    In the end the Anti’s still win.

      • It will be enjoyable to hear the frogs sing for rain when Spring rolls around, flowers blooming, trees budding out, green grass, cows getting fat,song birds singing, bears emerging from their dens, beautiful skys, Gods creatures rejoicing….To bad I’m blowingt it all up when I get my bomb built, oh well.

  3. National reciprocity – nope.
    Hughes repeal – nope.
    Hearing Protection Act – nope.
    Enforcement of FOPA – nope.

    It took decades for the NRA to get behind concealed carry; decades to support private ownership of semi-automatic rifles; decades to pay lip service to NFA owners.
    Even with the White House, Senate, and House of Representative in ostensibly “friendly” hands, the NRA cannot get anything we want through Congress anymore because they are too willing to throw “peripheral issues” aside.
    They are a toothless tiger.

  4. “the gun community can be it’s own worst enemy”

    We are still supporting the same stuff we were before the NRA gave up on both semi-autos and confiscation on the basis of mere accusation.

    So if we’re the “worst enemy” of gun rights, what is the NRA leadership? And why aren’t they to blame for their own actions? Is it our fault for holding them to account for failure, is that not a realistic approach to advocacy?

    • Fortunately there exists an alternative to the NRA: The John Birch Society in Appleton,
      Wisconsin at http://www.jbs.org and http://www.thenewamerican.com, respectively. Also, JPFO, Inc.
      at http://www.jpfo.org, and Gun Owners of America at http://www.gunowners.org. I can understand
      the frustration lacking in NRA leadership. Yet the NRA continues to hold the moral high
      ground on Hunter Safety Instruction, for instance. Too, the NRA even deserves some
      recognition for women’s safety, security, and protection. The Right To Carry laws which
      have been enacted since 1987 are partially due to the NRA. I like receiving the NRA’s
      American First Freedom (magazine) in my mailbox monthly. Though I resent it when NRA representatives call me on the telephone hitting me up or begging for money! I
      have since requested to be placed on their “No Call List.”

      But remember there exist other pro-Second Amendment/pro-gun institutions which
      I have already mentioned in the beginning of the last paragraph: The John Birch Society,
      JPFO, Inc. “America’s Aggressive Civil Rights Organization”, and Gun Owners of America.
      They deserve our attention too.

    • It’s our fault, like when an abusive partner gets upset it’s the abused partner’s fault. We just need to take their crap a little longer, they have a good heart, they’ve just had a rough time lately. We should have been nicer to them earlier. They’re the best we can do.

  5. Supporting the NRA is going the direction of gun control. Why do you think such a large amount of republicans support gun control? They are the ones going the wrong way. It’s always up to the libertarians and people who are pro gun to help out the fudds for some reason. Why? It does not help me at all to help them. People who are pro gun who support the NRA forget this is a result of us sticking with the fudds. I think it is inevitable at this point that we will lose. Our best bet is to at least punish groups like the nra into supporting actually gun rights or raise up a new group like goa.

  6. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy

    The iron law of oligarchy:

    “Who says organization, says oligarchy.”

    ‘’…democratic attempts to hold leadership positions accountable are prone to fail, since with power comes the ability to reward loyalty, the ability to control information about the organization, and the ability to control what procedures the organization follows when making decisions. All of these mechanisms can be used to strongly influence the outcome of any decisions made ‘democratically’ by members…”

    I would suggest that this suggests that the NRA’s present trajectory is/was to be expected. It also suggests that supporting smaller local “disorganized” efforts, like GoA and the like might actually be better. Anyway, it’s an interesting idea.

  7. Doesn’t the NRA have board elections? Members vote for them, eh? Who’s voting against our interests? Do they listen to members’ comments/letters/emails? Maybe there’s a swamp at the NRA that needs to be drained. Don’t know much here, just joined them.

    • They do have elections that aren’t not open to any independent verification.

      Wouldn’t surprise me if the “official” results aren’t the actually results.

      • The only candidate —Adam Kraut— who had a visible campaign presence, a web following, people wearing campaign buttons & stumping for him at the last NRA convention…lost by a couple dozen votes to a nobody that got a handful of votes the year prior. The nobody who beat Kraut the year before by a couple dozen votes, only got a handful this last go around.

        It’s rigged.

    • I was a NRA member up until last year and was eligible to vote for board members for 5 years. I only received my ballot in the mail two of those years. It’s rigged. Everything is made up and the votes don’t matter.

  8. History
    1791: The Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution is ratified.
    The amendment reads:

    “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,
    the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

    After That
    1871: The National Rifle Association was formed by Union Army veterans Col. William C. Church
    and Gen. George Wingate.

    After that, they start going the other way

    1934: http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/nfa.htm

    1939 http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/gca.htm

    1968: http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/gca.htm

    1986: http://www.constitution.org/2ll/2ndschol/46hard.pdf

    1993 https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/5087/text

    1994 https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/5087/text

    2018 Bump Stock Ban

    A historical list of infringements of second amendment rights that Negotiating rights Away has deemed suitable for Americans and it’s members.

    What is a inalienable individual right and what is a privilege?
    What does “shall not be infringed” plainly mean?
    Does the NRA support the unalienable individual right of the individual to keep and bear arms that shall not be infringed by government or does the NRA support government privileges?

    • They claim to be the oldest human rights organization.

      Didn’t they support the Fix Nix bill that Trump passed?

    • So if the South would’ve won we wouldn’t have this problem. There’d then be no Union to create the NRA.

      • One might reasonably come to that conclusion,as the saying to the victors go the spoils and we as a nation are still paying the costs of the federal government being the victor.

  9. The NRA has become blindly about other things than gun rights. It’s the same thing that’s plagued the ACLU, it’s the same thing that plagues a bunch of professional associations (the ABA, APA, AMA, etc.) and it plagues unions too.

    Under no circumstances should we be blindly following Trump the way they are and going over his talking points; Our concern should be is he creating good policy in the interest of gun owners and performing other actions to the same.

    If you look at judicial decisions, they haven’t been driven by the NRA in the recent past they’ve been driven by the SAF. That needs to change.

    Steering the NRA is important in the long term. That said we can’t be blindly loyal to them otherwise they will continue to use us as a piggy bank and forget about us when it’s actually time to deliver just like so many other political bodies, people and groups. Plain and simple.

    • Correct! The NRA squanders resources and alienates potential allies by parroting Trump positions on everything from net neutrality to climate change.

      They need to focus on gun rights!

  10. Lol, no.

    The NRA is a corporation that sells fear. What have they done in the last 15 years that have expanded our rights? Nothing. Hell, they were even betting against Heller.

    We should be shifting out support to GOA. It’s time for a real no compromise group to get big and take charge.

    • Negotiating Rights Away has been trading our natural second amendment rights away little at a time since 1934,strait thru current.

  11. You people are nuts! The NRA has protected our rights very effectivly since the 1960’s and before. The only reason you still have a 2nd amendment is because of them. Let’s see the GOA on their limited budget and membership accomplish even 1% of what the NRA does in a year and not be bankrupted. Those small organizations would’nt even be able to protect a states rights let alone a whole nation. Give me a fucking break. Wise up, the best chance of you still having any rights in 3 to 5 years is to get onboard with the NRA. The Left salivates that the thought of the NRA going away and would eat up the GOA within days. How many dues paying members does the GOA have, maybe 200,000? SOROS alone could defeat that. The NRA is only giving the left what the normal sane individuals and gun owners feel is useless anyway. And trying to solve California and some of the other socialist lost causes is at this time impossible. You’re just as bad as the gun grabbers, they blame the guns for all the problems instead of the hand that fires the gun. You blame the NRA for the sick fucks in this country that use the gun for what it was never intended to be used for. For instance, you blame the NRA and Trump for the loss of your cherished worthless piece of plastic bump stock. When in fact it was that crazy SOB in Vegas that busted your cherries. I for one am sick and tired of listening to all you whiners complaining about your perceived loss of rights, it makes me sick that I have to listwn to your turncoat rhetoric. None of you have the balls to put your money where your mouths is, and I doubt any of you even belong to a gun rights group to begin with.

    • ‘’…whiners complaining about your perceived loss of rights…”

      Thanks for clearing that up for me, glad to know it all in my imagination, just a perception. So does that mean that I can have a suppressed sbr in CA after all?

        • No, I thought that I only perceived that the giggle switch wasn’t there but that it was only in my imagination. 😳

      • I am with Jason…

        the NRA forgot about California and so all of California should forget about the NRA and ONLY donate local…WITHIN THE STATE

        • The NRA left us high and dry in 2016. The crazy thng is with CA’s insane anti 2A laws, CA POTG are still buying a 5h!t ton of firearms every year, when it’s the gun industry massively funding the NRA.

    • The NRA spends only 10% of its budget on lobbying and less than 1% on lawsuits. There are very good at claiming other organizations successes, such as those by the SAF. You don’t seem to value your rights or money much. Next up is red flag laws, by the way. The NRA has already promised to support them. Meanwhile, Wayne LaPierre needs to fund his next African safari and Chris Cox needs another full-auto for his safe. Hurry up and donate now!

      By the way, requiring the destruction of $100,000,000 worth of private property is not a perceived loss. It is quite real!

    • Let’s see the NRA’s push against Second Amendment “infringements”…
      …1934 National Firearms Act–FAIL
      …1968 Gun Control Act–FAIL
      …1986 Hughes Amendment–FAIL
      …1994 Assault Weapon Ban–FAIL
      …2017 Red flag bills–FAIL
      …2018 various state “infringements”–FAIL
      What’s next?

      Approximately every two weeks I get a flashy NRA mailing offering a free tote bag or other meaningless item while rallying about the “danger to our gun rights”. I would forego the “baubles and trinkets” that the NRA offers in order to see some REAL pushback against Second Amendment infringements.
      It almost seems that the NRA relishes these proposed “infringements” as they help push increased membership…nothing more.

    • Allen Gottlieb and the SAF currently have 35 legal cases going, and 2 more coming up. I hear him talking and see him walking the walk a lot more than Chris Cox. The only time I hear Cox is when he is asking for money to fight some non specific thing. SAF has specific cases listed and keep you in the loop, not just “fighting for your rights and freedom”. They get my money. The NRA got me for a life membership, but until I hear Chris Cox and the NRA have filed a suit in a specific court fighting a specific law, they will get no more of my money.

    • You may perhaps do a bit of research into what the NRA has done for and against the second amendment rights of Americans and members historically and you perhaps will come to a different understanding of the NRA.
      I know for myself this took place in 2012 when a close friend who was very pro 2 A,NRA life challenged me to the same.
      It is somewhat difficult for the NRA to hide their work when it is recorded in congressional testimony for all to read.

      • Agreed. The author is a retarded cocksucker. Hopefully the liberty hating republican pigs he worships will SWAT him in the middle of the night, we could do with fewer bootlicker scum and NRA morons.

    • “The National Rifle Association has been in support of workable, enforceable gun control legislation since its very inception in 1871.”
      — NRA Executive Vice President Franklin L. Orth
      NRA’s American Rifleman Magazine, March 1968, P. 22

      “We think it’s reasonable to support the federal Gun-Free School Zones Act. … We think it’s reasonable to expect full enforcement of federal firearms laws by the federal government. … That’s why we support Project Exile — the fierce prosecution of federal gun laws … we think it’s reasonable because it works. … We only support what works and our list is proud.”
      — NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre
      Congressional Testimony, May 27, 1999

      GFY, lying leftist fudd.

  12. When the Sheriff in Broward did a bad job they kicked him to the curb and cheered. What is the NRA doing about their leaders?

    At the end of the day, the NRA isn’t the power they claim to be, it’s the members themselves. The members are the ones that have the votes that elect a politician. The NRA are gatekeepers to that vote, which is how they manipulate… If the NRA continues moving in the wrong direction they lose those members, thus they lose the power to hand out votes to politicians. The 2A vote will remain strong, but the NRA’s ability to get rich off its members and politic with their buddies goes away for them. It’s not like a former NRA member is going to start voting against the 2nd Amendment.

    The NRA makes people passive and lazy. The organization puts the giants to sleep and makes sure to keep them cozy. This is fantastic for the NRA, law enforcement and politicians. It’s horrible for America. It helps destroy all that America is.

    The totalitarians do the opposite of the NRA. They are very active and they do not stop. They have much more power than the NRA. They have been able to change the culture of the entire country. They have captured minorities, women and the youth. Their voting block is much larger, unrelenting and growing faster than the opposing side. A lot of politicians have noticed the NRA isn’t all that powerful these days and they can come out of the closet yet still get elected. That has nothing to do with the NRA members’ discontent for the rich gatekeepers running the NRA, it comes from the NRA leaderships’ ineffectiveness in the modern landscape.

    The NRA believes just give them more of your liberties so at least we can appease them until next year or next election and the NRA paycheck receivers can still make that big money whilst every state becomes another California.

  13. There is no lobbying organization anywhere in the universe that can get the NFA or Hughes Amendment repealed by any US Congress…….ever. That is simply NOT going to happen. Too much public opposition.

    If you want to shoot full auto, go to a range that rents the guns, or pony up the money for your own license and gun.

    • OTOH, 1 or 2 more constitutional absolutists could find the Court vacating all gun control laws from NFA forward. Keep the argument going to distract the snowflakes, reelect the guy who actually nominates actual Justices, we’ll slip it right past ’em.

  14. Within 25 years the NRA will become the “reasonable” “common sense” faux 2nd A org for the left to latch onto. Cuomo will be on CNN going on and on about this great “common sense” civil rights entity while railing against fringe absolutist lunatics like GOA and SAF.

    A loss because the NRA once served a purpose. A gain because the left will have their very own gun rights org as Fuddish and anemic as it may be.

    • “Within 25 years the NRA will become the “reasonable” “common sense” faux 2nd A org for the left to latch onto. ”

      Thy are already that org. The left just has not latched on yet, but there may be no need for them to.

    • Sorry, Carl, but trashing the NRA isn’t insanity. SUPPORTING the NRA is the very definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result.

      The NRA has NEVER supported the right to keep and bear arms. That wasn’t its purpose when it was founded and the leadership of the NRA has never supported the notion of ordinary people having a right to be armed. We keep supporting the NRA expecting the organization to change – it hasn’t – and it won’t.

      I have been a member of several national organizations — when an organization isn’t supporting the needs and desires of the members, the ONLY thing that will make it change is for those members to vote with their feet and take their money with them. Then suddenly the organization will discover the error of its ways.

  15. I have to ask myself how many of the virulent anti-NRA posted in this thread are plants by Soros. Planting dissension within the ranks is a far better way to rot the Pro-2A crowd from the inside, than attempting to achieve victory with a full frontal assault. It appears both strategies are being used.

    I would wager a sum that if lost, would hurt, that the vast majority of the hard core bluster directed at the NRA is done by people that have never contributed one dime to the NRA, and never will. Even so, they prove that opinions are as numerous as anuses and don’t hesitate to note that if they were in charge instead of the NRA, all anti-2A forces would immediately drop their opposition to guns and the 2A. Barbara Streisand.

    It will be a tragic day when the Easy Chair Anti-NRA Brigade’s lack of constructive engagment results in the most severe of gun restrictions – which might well be their objective.

    • Oh, wait! Did any of those other organizations contribute $38 million to the defeat of Hillary Clinton? If so, I might alter my opinion!

      • I should have added that the NRA’s 2016 executive compensation package was $8.56M in total. That’s almost a quarter of $38M.

    • I’m really glad you posted this, because if you hadn’t, I would have. Especially the part about all the anti-NRA BS being payrolled by Soros (I would have said Bloomberg). I think maybe this website has become riddled with trolls.

      • Any commenter with an opposing thought, idea or response is a “troll”. Only those who agree with everything someone writes are non-trolls. “Troll” has completely lost any meaning. (which would mean Soros and Blumberg have won).

        • People like their own echo chambers, and hate anyone who may disturb it.

          I’ve never been afraid, if my arguments are so poor they cannot stand up to scrutiny then why would I have them? Hell for the most part I seek out opposition, to further craft my arguments and get to know theirs better.

          A group of people who all agree is boring, a group where no one agrees can be fun, but when every one disagrees with you that’s exciting, you’ll find out if you’re right or wrong if you actually care for the truth.

    • I believe you’re a plant for Soros

      Imagine the insane world you must live in to think people who are upset the NRA has given up to many rights is a Soros plant

    • Completely agree with this. Who benefits from the demise of the NRA? The prohibitionists. These idiots tearing it down are either useful idiots or statists pretending to be 2A supporters.
      Every serious 2A activist I know (read: that actually puts their money where their mouth is) donates to the NRA, the NRA-ILA, GOA, their local state org and often to SAF. Most gun owners have an opinion but few actually finance the good fight. Those of us that have been in the legal fight for decades appreciate what the NRA does vs what GOA and SAF does. All need your financial support!
      You can take issue with the NRA leadership all you want, but the minute you suggest its membership be reduced, you’re playing into the hands of our enemies or are our enemy.

      • My daddy always said, “If you find there is a list for something, stay off it.” He told me that no one knows what can or will be done with a list, and you can’t control it. Same with checks and credit cards; cash is king (or maybe Bitcoin). Sending cash through the mail so as to be an anonymous donor is very risky. Attending an event where donations are encouraged in cash is a more stealthy proposition.


        The day when you can conduct any financial transaction with cash is fast approaching. Indeed, there will come a day when you cannot conduct any transaction without permission of the governing authorities.

  16. Those complaining so badly about the failures of the NRA should again ask themselves where would they be if there hadn’t been an NRA to begin with? No organisation is perfect. If you don’t like the way they are proceeding, get off your asses and get involved! Lest you forget this. The NRA, established in NYC, was the only organisation that promoted, taught and trained civilians for many decades. They trained the LEAs, LEOs and military for many decades! They provided training programs in our schools that taught millions of people to shoot and do it safely. They are the only organisation that developed a firearms safety program for K-12, and have developed a new program with grants to any school that wants to use it for training staff to carry, helping establish defense criteria and more. If your kid’s school is not using this, than demand they do so! They also offer an insurance policy for gun owners. You want change, than get in the fight!

    • No one know can tell you where we would be with out ____.

      The NRA was founded by government men for government men. They wanted to train government on how to kill with guns because they were bad at it. It was their goal to better regulate the government gunman.

    • if Your best argument is a hypothetical argument that is completely unsolvable, you should probably rethink your position.

  17. Yes, Duane Liptak is a big deal in the industry and a member of the apparently misnamed Board of Directors of the NRA. He published an open letter telling us why we should keep pouring money down that same rathole.

    Well, I am nobody in the industry and an at-least-twice-former member of the NRA, so here is my reply to Mr. Liptak:

    His letter is a thoughtful read — but way off target. His entire argument in support of the NRA is that we all need to support the NRA because so many people have been supporting it for years that it is the only name anyone outside the 2A community knows about.

    He admits that the NRA is off track and tries to imply that it would be possible to “steer” the NRA in a more responsive direction – clearly that is not true. The NRA has a number of useful and valuable programs at both the national and local levels, BUT the NRA has NEVER been a supporter of the right to keep and bear arms [Period!]

    Some folks may will recognize that I have previously mentioned that every single piece of anti-RKBA federal legislation that has passed Congress in the last fifty years did so with the active support of the NRA. But the NRA’s active opposition to our right to keep and bear arms goes back a lot farther than just the past 50 years. The earliest documented position I can find would be Karl Frederick, NRA president in 1934, testimony during congressional NFA hearings: “I have never believed in the general practice of carrying weapons. I seldom carry one.” and “I do not believe in the general promiscuous toting of guns. I think it should be sharply restricted and only under licenses.” The NRA pushed for the NFA of 1938. Since then the NRA has occasionally opposed specific parts of anti-RKBA legislation but has never stood in support of the basic right to keep and bear arms.

    Until 1968, the NRA was basically an organization of Fudds. Then they suddenly discovered something new and important.

    No, they didn’t discover the Second Amendment. What the NRA discovered in 1968 was the Almighty Dollar — not money to support RKBA, but simply money to support the NRA itself. The NRA poses as a supporter of “Gun Rights” as the cornerstone of its membership and fundraising drives, but actually defending the Second Amendment is not, never has been, and never will be the primary or even a major role of the NRA at the national level.

    The NRA has plenty of members who think the organization should be defending our rights, BUT it has far more “members” who mistakenly think that the NRA _is_ defending those rights and who mistakenly feel they have done their part by writing their dues check and maybe responding to one or two of the NRA’s constant fundraising campaigns.

    Duane Liptak is right that it takes an organization with many millions of members — and, yes, billions of dollars — to lobby effectively at the national level. Where he is wrong is his argument that the NRA is — or ever will be — that organization.

    If we want our rights defended, we need to have an organization dedicated to defending those rights. Doing that takes effort and money. We need to find an organization that we can all get behind, we need to sign our membership cards, and we need to sign some checks – big checks.

    If Mr. Liptak could find enough directors interested in supporting our rights, and could somehow lead a revolution to “steer” the NRA in a new direction at least 90 degrees from its historic course (more like 179 degrees from its recent course), I’d be delighted to stand behind that organization. But the history of the NRA simply does not make such a change believable.

    Today we have too many organizations working to defend our rights. Too many because they split our focus and split our support. Several or the national “Gun Rights” organizations are poorly run, some little more than scams themselves. Bottom line we have a choice is between GOA and FPC. I’d love to see them merge, but that isn’t going to happen (at least not yet). Sure, we could all just join both — certainly many of us have joined both. But supporting both still splits the one resource that they each need – so we need to throw our money behind ONE organization.

    Mr. Liptak says we should throw our money behind the NRA in the forlorn hope that it will suddenly change. Sorry, Duane, but the best definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result. Most of us here have been throwing our money behind the NRA for the better part of the last fifty years, they they haven’t changed yet.

    Unfortunately people won’t choose without being led. Someone with national visibility needs to stand up, and lead the exodus from the NRA and make a choice that we can all get behind. So who will it be? I can tell you that it won’t be me (no one cares who I support) and it won’t be a certain well-known gun writer who publishes anonymously because she fears others in her profession might look down on her if they knew she supports gun ownership, but we all better hope that someone does step up to lead American Gun Owners while we still have any right left to defend.

    Duane, I guess the ball is in your court – you can continue to defend the NRA or you can defend the Second Amendment, but I don’t see how you can manage to do both.

    • Listen to all the people who most oppose 2A and they will repeatedly tell you who they most fear and hate, and that is NRA. QED, your turn, go ahead.

      • Yes, Larry, “the people who oppose the second amendment” do say they hate and fear the NRA – because the NRA says it is are pro-gun.

        Yes, the NRA is the organization that everyone has heard of — too bad that 99% of the members have no idea what the NRA stands for, what the NRA does, or where their money goes.

        Yes, the NRA wants to keep fighting — at least as long as the money keeps rolling in — but like most advocacy organizations on any issue, they only thing they fear more than losing completely would be winning completely – because either way the fight is over which means the money dries up and their cushy job and fancy perks all go away.

        • Negotiating Rights Away has the reputation with those on the left as being against their wishes,when in fact historically the NRA has proven to be in the left’s best interest, NRA at best a paper tiger.

      • You could also ask those same people about the relative lethality if the AR-15 and nearly all of them would say it’s uniquely deadly. They fear the NRA for the same reason they fear ARs: they’re idiots who don’t know much

    • To right this course one needs to keel-haul the captain (LaPierre), first mate (Hammer) and Navigator (Cox). Without that it is simply impossible.

  18. Unless/until the NRA is completely revamped – purged of the immeasurable senior management – and returned to its original mission, only the most extreme Right Wing of the NRA’s Memvership will support it.

    • What he said. Wayne and Chris have to go. Seems like a monarchy organization instead of a democratically run organization. They called me at 8:05am on January 2nd or 3rd begging for money and telling me Nanci was coming for my guns. The next time they call me I am going to say exactly that, when Wayne and Chris are gone, I’ll send them a check.

    • @ECPatriot — Oh God No!! The answer is NOT for the NRA to “return to its original mission” because the NRA is still true to its original mission. That mission was to hold rifle competitions and it is one of the things that the NRA does reasonably well. The problem is that the NRA is not and never has been an organization with a mission to support the right to keep and bear arms.

      Marksmanship Competition, yes. Marksmanship Training, yes. Firearms Safety, yes. Those are all core missions of the NRA and the NRA has always done a good job of those functions.

      Supporting the right to keep and bear arms, has never been a mission of the NRA. Look at the history of the NRA. Look at the official testimony of NRA officers before Congress. Look at the official positions the NRA has taken in support of the National Firearms Act, the Gun Control Act, and every other infringement on the Second Amendment.

  19. I read the whole article and have a few comments to make. If you are going to address people to try and win them back over to your side and that of the NRA you probably shouldn’t lead in with a picture that calls all of us who are angry at the NRA crying little babies. You call for a United 2A front and want people to support the NRA but lead out with a devisive and insulting picture? Remember, you were trying to make me re-up my membership and, more importantly, re-open my wallet. Good luck.

    Also, it sounds really bad to have a poor outcome and then come out and tell people that there was play behind the scenes that we couldn’t possibly see or understand and wait to try and explain it until after we are all pissed off. To draw an analogy to my profession in the medical field; if I lay out the risks/benefits/potential complications of a procedure before hand and then one of those complications happens my patient is generally more understanding because they knew it was a possibility. If I wait until after the complication arises and then say, “oh yeah, that was one of the risks,” then I just sound like I’m making excuses. The NRA sounds like it is making excuses right now. I don’t know how that fix looks in this arena, it’s not my area of expertise, but I do know that the NRA is doing a horrible job of selling itself to its members. Right now it looks like it is pandering to the left, who will hate them no matter what, and simultaneously alienating their membership.

    Perception means a lot to people, especially when it comes to how money is spent. The author defended the salaries of the top execs at the NRA by comparing them to other non-profits. Once again, that sounds like an excuse. You present a very poor perception of the NRA leadership when you can’t answer to why the NRA isn’t spending money on bumpstock ban lawsuits but only say the equivalent of “at least we aren’t as bad as the other guys.”

    Sticking with perception, people don’t think that any meaningful change in an organization has happened unless personnel have changed. At this point I don’t think it matters if the NRA really believes that it did the best thing, or even if it did do the best thing for the long game. We may have been half a step away from a full turd sandwich but only had to take one bite, but the NRA did a horrible job of conveying that to its membership and there will likely be no forgiveness and only lukewarm support until top NRA leadership is replaced. Why would I give my money to an organization that still looks like the exact same group of people who have failed me in the past?

    I’m a “not one more inch” kind of guy. I truly believe that I should be able to walk into my local gun store and buy whatever I want. I think bump stocks are stupid only because they should never have had to be invented in the first place. I’m also a realist and know that it doesn’t really matter that we live in a Constitutional Republic with enumerated rights that are endowed by our Creator. We very much live at the whim of popular opinion and our rights can be stripped away by enough votes unless we are ready to start it all over on the battlefield. In the world we live in there will be 2A gains and losses, I understand that. What is hard to understand, harder to stomach, and even harder to forgive is when those losses appear to be facilitated by an organization that touts itself as “Freedom’s Safest Place.”

  20. Go ahead, turn your backs on the NRA. It will please the tr0lls and Democrats, and you can kiss your guns goodbye, but I’m sure it will make you all feel so much better. You can scream “from my cold dead hands” all you want — and the agents of the state will be very pleased to make it so.

    • “… if people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had simply understood they had nothing left to lose … We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward”
      – Solzhenitsyn

      Another thirty years and I’ll be as old as these boomers pleading for NRA support, hoping that “outlive” tyranny, while subjecting future generations to it. Might as well push as hard as I can for gun confiscation and get this thing started.

    • Actually, it’s like asking “do you want to be mauled by a cougar, catamount, puma, or mountain lion?”.

    • What kinda Black Panther? The ones who stand up against discrimination or the ones that eat possums ?

  21. Interesting narrative, but….

    The theme and the bottom line is that the NRA is the best agent to manage the end of “gun rights”. A slow death of the Second Amendment is preferable to a quick one.

    Second, the theme appears to be that NRA is playing multi-dimensional chess, and sees no purpose served in detailing their strategy for the membership (and allies) to see, and understand.

    The one effective thing NRA could do is mentioned nowhere: call for primary opposition to any and all candidates who refuse to be staunch supporters of the constitution, and the Second Amendment. If the NRA is so powerful that only they can gain entree to politicians, so powerful that only they can successfully delay the disarming of America, so powerful that building up any other organization to challenge NRA on its own turf, then….

    NRA should be powerful enough to destroy political careers. Allegedly the anti-gun mafia fears the power of the NRA. Every non-Leftist, gun-grabbing politician (i.e. Republicrats, RINOs, and establishment right-of-center politician should be terrified of NRA putting a quick, total and permanent end to their political careers.

    As to working within and with “the system”, Donald Trump disrupted the system fairly thoroughly, and managed to accomplish some important things. NRA could be a disrupter, but seems mired in businesss-as-usual.

    NRA, where are you…?

    • “The theme and the bottom line is that the NRA is the best agent to manage the end of “gun rights”. A slow death of the Second Amendment is preferable to a quick one.”
      No it isn’t. Let’s get this thing over with while I am still young enough to fight.

      • A slow death is my analysis of the NRA strategy. You tell them to hurry up and kill the Second Amendment while you are still capable of bringing the fight to the dark force.

    • We would like to show a united front, but then the NRA comes in and stabs us in the back. Do you support red flag laws or not? The NRA does!

    • I am a Life Member. I don’t hate them, I just have no faith in them.

      They have turned into surrender monkeys.

      “Red flag” laws deprive you of your Sixth Amendment right to face your accuser, and your Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments right to due process.
      The bump stock ban has no basis in law; it is fiat, plain and simple.
      For its own reasons, the NRA accepts both as reasonable.

      • Yes, reasonable gun regulations; the NRA loves them. They literally say the gun control they help pass isn’t all that unreasonable like the original that was certainly going to pass (according to them). They are very good at passing reasonable gun regulations to protect the Bill of Rights.

    • israeli bikini supermodels with an untied front!

      abandon the nra at your own rights peril. some of the longest posts are offered up by people who do only that. lots of distractions. helluv an ally; they make weird survival decisions. half the membership they should have.
      surprised gnashy wasn’t the first poster child.

  22. I would like to see an objective TTAG review of the different 2A Rights organizations…with non-profit and tax information..including Fight/Win/Loss columns..ect.

    Put all the cards on the table.

    • I always think that same thing, Possum.

      People say, “you wouldn’t have gun rights without the NRA!” Uh, no…we had them before the NRA ever existed.

      Pretty skillful to be the people selling everyone a little tank of air…

  23. Meh…as an old guy but only a 7and a half year gun owner I don’t “get” the unalloyed NRA worship. Geez they acted like Mitt was the 2nd Coming! And said Trump gave damn about us. I have 18 months before my NRA membership expires. Will I renew?!? Depends on what happens in ILLinois. Old Wayne has to go…oh and don’t make “suggestions” to the ATF😩😡

    • Great comments. You’ve only been in the fight for about seven years and you already understand that the NRA isn’t the organization they tell you about. Guess what, those of us who have been in the fight for over fifty years have seen the same thing — over and over and over. In that time the NRA has gone from “compromising” away our rights to actively suggesting new ways for politicians to infringe our rights. That may be change, but it’s not a change anyone here wants.

      • Oh I get it Tom…I voted in 1972. Against an immoral and insane Asian war. Nothing changes😩😡

      • yeah,..basically forcing us to constantly settle for half-a-loaf…hopefully all of this flak will get back to them and get them off their duffs and adopt a somewhat aggressive stance…they should be leading…not following….

  24. I do not like that NRA big shots were consorting with Russians, including traveling to Russia. We are not in the business of fomenting revolutions in other countries. The NRA is an American organization supporting Americans in America. How in the hell did that ever get so confused that executives were paling about in Russia for the rights of Russian gun owners? Which naturally turned out to be a game being run bu Putin’s highly skilled and very sophisticated spy agency.

    You know, the anti-American Russian leader? The former KGB Colonel? That guy?

    That’s just my latest dissatisfaction with the NRA. Add bump stocks and LaPierre’s big stupid mouth and I’ve all the reasons I need.

    Oh yeah, the NRA sent me a hat with an American flag on it. Label says “MADE IN CHINA”. An American flag, made in our enemy’s factory. And the NRA is helping our Communist enemy make money. How in the hell is that even possible?

    Just the same I know a dysfunctional tool is my only option. So, each year I donate my membership plus $100 to each of the three big pro-gun outfits. The NRA, the GOA and the SAF. All have defects in character and methods, but I give them some money at tax refund time because there are no other options.

    The rest of the year they annoy the crap out of me with constant begging. With BS opinion surveys. With screaming junk mail and robo-calls warning of the worst emergency ever imagined about to crush my 2A rights to dust if I do not fork over more cash lightning quick.

  25. Lots of Liberal-Leftist trolls on this site selling dissention and 2A suicide. Hanging separately looks to be inevitable at this point.

    • OK, Carl, keep telling yourself that everyone who opposes the way the NRA leads the charge against the right to keep and bear arms must be a leftist troll. So, what is LaPierre paying you? Perhaps 1/1,000,000th of what he rakes in with all his bogus campaignz — that would still be a pretty tidy sum for your loyalty

    • You want to line up side by side so the enemy can shoot all of us down in one go. That’s some archaic European style of fighting.

    • there does seem to be something to this russian connection, though…they don’t seem to be comfortable talking about it…this sneaky stuff just seems to follow Ollie around…

  26. The NRA used to run a “defense system” and that finally changed years ago. NO group has ever “won” anything using DEFENSE to get something done. A great OFFENSE is the only solution to the anti-gunners. Make them tell you EXACTLY WHAT THEIR “COMMON SENSE GUN CONTROL ACTUALLY IS”; don’t let them off the hook, make them tell you EXACTLY what they are proposing that will stop CRIMINALS from using guns ILLEGALLY.. My State Senator told me “we have to do something” after the Parkland criminals actions; but she couldn’t tell me WHAT exactly her “something” was that she wanted to do. I suggested a MANDATORY DEATH SENTENCE FOR ILLEGALLY KILLING ANOTHER PERSON; her response, “I’m against the death penalty”..

    So, let’s get pro-gun Senators and House members to PROPOSE anti-criminal LAWS and bury the anti-gun bills they keep proposing. Push not only the NRA, but ALL the other pro-gun groups to do the same thing; TAKE THE FIGHT TO THEM.. Email/write/call the NRA/ILA and push them to do what WE, the MEMBERS, want done.

    Don’t ask them to go back and address the ILLEGAL, 1934 Gun Control Act, DEMAND that they do it! Will it cost a lot of money, maybe, but so what; we get rid of that ILLEGAL LAW and ALL the anti-2nd laws will become NULL AND VOID.. Don’t say WE can’t do it. Push them to do it NOW.. Get ALL the pro-gun groups together and fight the fight. We can ONLY WIN BY A GOOD OFFENSE..

    For all you anti-NRA comment people, go promote the group YOU think will do the best job and STOP trying to destroy our gun rights by IN-FIGHTING. The antis love you for doing this stupidity.

    NRA Benefactor Member and proud of it. Millions of US need to email/write/call the NRA/ILA to MAKE THE CHANGE NOW.. Hold their feet to the fire, IT’S OUR NRA..

    • Do you really think continuing to give them money is going to change them? A mass boycott of the NRA would be the fastest way to get them to change; while rewarding bad behavior just reinforces it. I suppose you also say about RINO types, that we need to vote for them again and THEN tell them to vote the way we want? Grow up

  27. Pay no attention to the pearl clutching momma’s boys acting big and bad. Their masquerade here as men cannot hide the fact that most are zit-faced punks flunking out of high school.

  28. Let’s take a moment and remember the pro gun momentum we had several years ago. For a brief time, you couldn’t turn around without seeing another state that was liberalizing self defense laws or making Constitutional Carry a thing. The NRA bootlicking traitors here would tell you that those things never happened, that we all imagined them, because of we don’t capitulate well just lose more and that it’s 100% impossible to regain ground. Bull-shit, all those gains happened because we finally stood up and said NOT ONE MORE INCH

    Oh, and the NRA played a very little role in those gains, the work was done by smaller (mostly state level) gun rights groups and true grassroots activism. Anyone who thinks we “need” the NRA is, at best, deeply ignorant of recent history

  29. Well, I can’t comment on much of the article since I have no window into meetings with Chris Cox or any other private conversations with NRA big wigs or staff.

    [The following should not be taken as being directed at anyone here on TTAG but as a general opinion about a group of people that I’ve met in real life and who annoy the crap out of me.]

    What I can say for sure, in saltier language than the author, is that he’s absolutely right that even among ardent 2A supporters there is a disturbing lack of knowledge about how politics and the legislative system work. In short, most people know exactly fuck all about the process but are more than willing to run their cum-dumpsters about it.

    These morons are more than willing to take major loss after major loss just to say they were “right”. The sad thing is that they’re so hardheaded that they see taking huge losses as victories because they fought not to “give an inch” and lost 20 fucking miles in the process.

    Sorry, I’m tired of assholes at the range who can’t even tell me what a “markup session” is screaming about how the NRA is giving away the candy store and how said assholes know better. If you’re so goddamn smart then how is it that you’re not running a gun rights organization that’s bigger, better and more effective than the ones that already exist? Answer: Because you’re not a fraction as smart or as knowledgeable as you think you are. You’re the same dumbfuck telling me that I’m losing a ton of velocity from my .45 Osprey suppressor which is making the round subsonic and causing it to drop faster and hit with less power. Don’t go away mad, just go the fuck away.

    Look, there’s a legit argument to be had about how to run the NRA. However, listening to the people who preach that the NRA is a gun control organization isn’t steering the ship, it’s scuttling her. Joining GOA or some other group? Great, fan-fucking-tastic in fact. Grow the fleet and improve the ships but don’t intentionally sink one of main ones for no reason other than that you don’t like the current captain.

    If you want a better, more responsive NRA the answer is more members who think like we do, not less and there’s no reason not to be a member of multiple organizations. Baskets and eggs and somesuch.

    • “If you want a better, more responsive NRA the answer is more members who think like we do, not less and there’s no reason not to be a member of multiple organizations.”

      We tried the “more members who think like we do” approach and it failed spectacularly! There was a movement to bring in more “black rifle” people into the NRA. It was quite successful. Many of these new members left the NRA or are Life Members, like me, that stopped donating. Pete Brownell stepped down as NRA President after only one of his two year term.

      In Rob Pincus’ own words (https://www.facebook.com/RobPincusPro/posts/2007147789368037):


      We have 3 options for the near future of the NRA:
      1. Tolerate the enrichment of the leadership and their cronies with funds that are supposed to be defending our rights.
      2. A scandal topples the leadership and possibly takes the organization with it.
      3. The current regime passes the torch to a new generation of leaders that are ready for the fights of Today and Tomorrow and will take the organization back to the businesses of truly Educating and Lobbying instead of merely pandering, fear mongering and fundraising.

      Thankfully, fewer and fewer US Gun Owners are willing to go with option number 1. Option 2 is truly a worst case scenario for all of us and our cause that we should want to avoid. The only way I see to bring about any version of option number 3 is going to be to make the first option impossible. Cut the funding and take away the incentives of self-enrichment and influence peddling from the leadership. As resources are diverted to better and more efficient representatives of US Gun Owners, the LaPierre-Ackerman-McQueen stranglehold on the organization will become less tenable (as frustration grows along with more cutbacks and missteps) or at least less interesting to them and they chose to move on.


      • “Cut the funding and take away the incentives of self-enrichment and influence peddling from the leadership.”

        First off, influence peddling is exactly what the NRA is meant to do. Sorry, it’s a dirty game but that’s what “lobbying for a cause” is. Saying otherwise is like saying that you’re training to fight with a knife but not being willing to stab or cut anyone.

        Secondly, this isn’t a for-profit company where the shareholders will toss these guys because the last few quarters didn’t go so well. We need to fire these people and the only way we do that is to swell the ranks of those who support firing them. Otherwise the ONLY thing that will happen is the NRA will be weakened in it’s lobbying ability and people like LaPierre will take a slightly smaller paycheck to keep running the ship aground. While that’s happen the Left will win the the legislatures and by the time the ship that is the NRA is righted all will have already been lost and there won’t be a 2A to protect.

        To keep using naval metaphors; You don’t put your best carrier in dry-dock until after you’ve lost the war simply because the captain is an idiot. You replace the captain and get that ship back in the fight as soon as possible. To replace the captain you don’t convince the sailors on the ship to shirk duty or the guys in the dry-dock to work faster. You convince the Navy overall that the captain is incompetent and have him thrown out on his ass.

        • Lobbying is not the influence peddling Rob Pincus meant! He meant the influence peddling within the NRA to stay in power and to enrich themselves!

          The only people who can fire Wayne LaPierre, Chris Cox and Marion Hammer is the Board of Directors, which Marion Hammer is a member of as well.

          The NRA Board of Directors has 76 members, the vast majority of them are either inept, clueless or outright cronies. That high number is on purpose, to make actions by the Board against the leadership close to impossible!

          We tried to change the composition of the NRA Board of Directors for years. Rob Pincus himself ran in 2014. Adam Kraut ran for the past few years and he is running again this year. Many others tried as well. If my memory serves me correctly, there are only two reformers on the Board of Directors right now. Quite a number of people believe that the NRA Board of Directors election is rigged.

          To use your naval metaphors, the ship is steering toward an iceberg, the captain is unwilling to change course, the crew is unwilling to take part in a mutiny, and passengers are jumping off the ship while the captain, the crew and other passengers blame them for abandoning the ship. The only thing that can save this ship is to change course!

        • And you expect that the course change will occur because a few more people jump off the ship?

          That’s what you’re saying.

          • Do you have a better idea than to jump ship and find another ship that doesn’t steer toward an iceberg? Watch that boiling frog video posted in this thread! Maybe, just maybe, the frog (captain, crew and remaining passengers) will realize his impending death before it is too late and change course. Maybe!

            If you have a better idea, I think there are millions of gun owners willing to listen and to take action. As I said, we tried the “more members who think like we do” approach and it failed spectacularly! The only thing it did was making NRA executives richer and dividing the community.

  30. The case for continued support of the NRA:

    The board fired Wayne and Chris in an emergency meeting, and voted to stop subsidizing Marion’s salary.

    Please come back and bear with us as we transition from a pro-embezzlement group into a pro-gun group.

  31. Ollie North is a closet globalist. He is part of the NRA’s problem. They have been infiltrated by the left. They can’t get behind the bump stocks. They couldn’t get hearing protection acts and they aren’t behind national carry. All because they have left wing political schills amongst their ranks. They have been infiltrated just as the Republican Party has been infiltrated. They are not as they seem. Research will tell you the truth.

  32. I have never been a member with them, because there are things in life I have been able to anticipate, and because I am greedy. It turns out I was right to save my money for something else.

  33. If we’re going to lose all our gun rights, can we do it now while I’m still in shape enough to fight the inevitable civil war?

    Or hold off 20-25 years so I can sell my collection at 1000% markup to all the criminals so I can retire and move out of this country.

    Either way is fine with me.

  34. With all of this NRA bashing, I can only wonder who among us has a plan that will save and preserve our 2nd amendment rights? I have not agreed or liked everything the NRA has done or positions they have taken; but, at this point in time I don’t see or hear any reasonable alternatives. It is most important that we the POTG present a united front. Splinter groups are little more than a prick in the anit’s side and without a proper organization with resources and people capable of taking on the politicians in Washington D. C. we simply do not have a chance of saving anything meaningful. No matter how one views the NRA, they the NRA, is still the loudest, most experienced voice we the POTG have. I’d rather go down in a blaze of glory with the biggest army we can muster, than see us crash and burn as splinter groups one by one. Anyone with a better idea please present it. Gentlemen thanks for your time.

  35. If the NRA has so many more lobbyists, then why are Americans losing rights via slow erosion. Put another way, what exactly are those lobbyists winning? Here is a thought for you, all those lobbyists, whose side are they really on? That numbers game only works when your “allies’ want the same thing you do. The NRA appears to have divorced themselves from the tenet of defending the 2nd ammendment at all costs and NEVER GIVING AN INCH when doing so. Any organization that demonstrates through either action or omission of action any less than that will not get my money. Any competing organization that does even a marginally better job at living up to that tenant gets my money and support.

    Proud Pennsylvanian here, betrayed by an organization that did absolutely zero to fight against the implementation of red flag laws in my state. Thanks for nothing!

  36. OMG! I bet this is how OUR European Ancestors feel as they readied themselves to escape to the New World in the Americas…So they could establish a colony of THEIR own personal freedoms…Far and away from the British Monarchy…I wish there was a New World to run to! Or maybe divine intervention, like a couple of large iron asteroids or comets slamming into the Earth! Allowing small contingents of humans to survive and restart again. Eliminating most of the Big Brother governments, world bankers, and all its Oligarchy that are formed worldwide! Or an unpoplated 2nd Earth 🌎 type world..Free of oppressive governments of people! Now that’s a dream!

  37. Assuming that the NRA leadership actually has a pro-gun strategy, it appears to be this:

    We need to support all anti-gun legislation that the GOP favors, because if we draw a line in the sand and the GOP crosses it, we’ll be forced to demonstrate our power (or lack thereof) in voting them out of office.

    For there are two ways to lobby Congress:
    1. buy the whores with campaign money.
    2. threaten them with the votes of your members.

    Since Bloomberg, Paul Allen, and Soros can easily outspend the NRA in tactic #1 above, the NRA’s power lies in #2, and it is becoming painfully obvious that the NRA has zero desire to actually use #2, so there is no threat nor incentive in the NRA’s potential use of #2.

  38. An Emergency NRA meeting of ALL members would help…Shake up leadership and find out what the Pro2@ priorities are! Especially surrounding red flag laws which the modt dangerous to LIBERTY and all other 2@ issues…

  39. As with most gun owners they know little about History usually almost zero. Many times in the Past the NRA warned a politician about crossing them and going anti-gun and when they did the NRA spent a lot of money to defeat them at the polls and succeeded in doing so many times because they were the only pro-gun organization that had enough big bucks to get the job done by getting the word out to the voters and supporting the opposing pro-gun candidate. Too soon the unwashed forget all the successes of the NRA.

    I hear many lies, propaganda and the usual conspiracy bullshit about the NRA when in reality its all an excuse so that the Anti-NRA people can justify saving a measly $30 dollars by not joining so they can lose all their guns and rights tomorrow.

    Lets face facts no organization wins all the time, no organization never makes a mistake, and yes there is graft and corruption whenever an organization handles millions of dollars in funds. But with no NRA organization at all to fight for gun rights the result is that there is no one and no other gun rights organization with enough money to stop the anti-gun people and they get millions more than the NRA does in money from people like Soros and people like Bloomberg.

    I have seen the NRA in the past 55 years win far more times than they lost and I know very well from History that without them we now would all be talking about playing golf not about guns if they had not existed.

    Other posters spoke of divide and conquer and the sad thing is that the unwashed cannot see that or believe that it is happening. The key to destroying the Second Amendment is to first destroy the NRA and Bloomberg and Soros know that only all to well and they are counting on the unwashed to destroy themselves so they can save $30 by not joining the NRA.

    Other posters were 100 per cent correct when they stated that the skin flints that are bitching about the NRA not only do not belong to the NRA most do not belong to any other pro gun organization either.

    • The NRA spends only 10% of its budget on lobbying and less than 1% on lawsuits. It’s a cash cow for a few elites. There are very good at claiming other organizations successes, such as those by the SAF.

      I am not only a NRA Life Member, but also a USCCA Member. You know, the pro-gun organization that got thrown out of the NRA Annual Meeting for competing with the NRA Carry Guard insurance. Divide and conquer by the NRA!

      According to you, I do not belong to the NRA, because I am asking for accountability.

  40. I am a lifetime NRA member. I did not get concerned about the bump stock ban and thought the NRA decided the fight was a waste of resources. The red flag law allows an anonymous individual to make unproven accusations and then for the police to come to your house without a warrant and take your guns. Force can be used if necessary. One man has already been killed after a family member lied. I have not seen a greater threat to freedom in my lifetime.

  41. All the left needs to do to DESTROY the NRA is ask Wayne LaPierre “If full auto isn’t protected by the Second Amendment, why is semi-auto?”. They don’t want the NRA gone, the NRA is their bitch knowingly or unwittingly (“useful idiots”).

  42. I’m done with being the NRA’s Charlie Brown football kicking fool. Lots of good, well articulated arguments have been presented here, and in the past. I know these same arguments have been articulated to the NRA. They have not listened. So, I’ll try phrasing it another way.

    The NRA has a “mission dysphoria” issue. It either does not know it’s mission, does not communicate its mission, or has too many missions. Try to find their mission statement and then try to find the SAF’s mission statement. According to Duane, the NRA’s mission is to slow the erosion of 2A rights. That may be a worthy mission, but is not enough for many of us. Other organizations have a more strongly and clearly communicated mission we can relate to.

    Ultimately, this is a Board issue. Either they have too weak of a mission for many of us, the wrong mission for many of us, don’t hold Wayne accountable for pursuing the mission we think they should have, or give Wayne too much latitude in how to accomplish the mission.

  43. As I said, I am an NRA life member. I also belong to the SAF and GRNC, but I don’t remember what the NRA was able to hold on to for us in 86 and 94. I wasn’t around in 68, so can someone who was enlighten me as to what rights we got to keep during that period? Again, all I hear is “fighting for your rights and freedom” never “this week our lobbyists sat down with democratic senators w,x,y and z and got them on board with the HPA, National Reciprocity, No ERPO, or something else important to the 2A. They will sponsor the bill and we expect it to become law on the next session” . Nope, haven’t heard anything like that, and yes civics nazis, I know thats not how it works so save your lighter fluid.

    All I’m saying is every time I hear about the NRA, they seem to be giving us up on something or working behind the scenes, every time I hear about SAF its how they just won, or lost and are appealing, or are filing a case.

    • Bisexual, don’t care. Good job flipping on the NRA and thank you for admitting it. The partisan-rank-and-file scumbags in the gun community turned on the widow of Pat Tillman for being soft on immigration, but Trump and the NRA can do no wrong because they’re a bigger part of these losers’ grandiose delusions. Pfft.

  44. I support the NRA, GOA, SAF, and FPC. Regardless of how flawed you think the NRA is, when they fall, we fall. Perhaps we will fall anyway given all the division here…

    I wonder though how the NRA would be with 150 million members.

  45. OK, screw Magpul now too. I thought the Boulder Airlift was cool, but anything they did good is now bait leading to the trap of controlled opposition to further infringements. Anyone else have something to confess? …want to blow the fudd-whistle on themselves?

  46. The NRA isn’t about gun rights, training (as evidenced by the wretched ‘blended learning’ morass they’ve created), or even range development. It’s all about paying LaPierre a seven-figure salary, getting the top brass first class airline tickets, five-star hotels, their own security detail, and schmoozing with the political elite. It’s called “Mission Creep” and the NRA is infested with it.

  47. Dan, thanks for posting this bit. I wouldn’t have seen it otherwise.

    Duane, I totally agree with much of what you said. Keep fighting and know that many members are quieter than many of the upset folks. It’s hard to figure out the numbers on this one although yes, a lot of real 2A people are upset (no doubt there).

    Everyone else, I hope that we can fight and win these battles. I didn’t consider bump stocks to be the hill to die on. Trump seemed to be hard set against them. And, it seems like the NRA wants to stay “inside the tent” with Trump instead of being tossed aside by him. For comparison, think about how ridiculous the “conservative,” “never trumpers” are right now. They have zero influence (Jennifer Rubin, Bill Kristol, Steve Schmidt, etc). The NRA needs to stay close and remain influential.
    The bump stock issue ought to be overturned, but there is absolutely no guarantee there, so I won’t blow smoke up anyone’s skirts.
    Anyway, everyone needs to make up their own mind. We’re a free people and all and I won’t tell others what to do (not that it would matter). Hopefully, we can win these fights now and with a President Hillary, we would have been royally #####ed.
    We do need more power and unfortunately part of that will be more politicians. That means we need more votes. That means we need more sympathetic voters. That requires work on our sides.

    • Why would anyone want to be in a voting bloc with a compromiser like you? That’s a surefire way to get someone with 1-3 more figures on their net worth and no honest occupation to metaphorically wipe their butt with one’s values. What are you going to do with more votes, you can’t control the politicians you have now.

  48. NRA wrote the gun control acts of the 30’s and 60’s, and rubber stamped all the rest! They are the original cause of us losing ground for decades!

  49. The NRA takes millions in dues, pays lip service to its members and does NOTHING when it comes time to act and in fact HELPS to restrict gun owner rights. Duane sounds like the GOP for the last 10 years, they talk, do nothing then claim they need JUST A LITTLE MORE TIME…………….times run out. When someone sells you a bad product you don’t keep handing them money as they tell you to wait things will get better then continue to do NOTHING to make the product what they keep promising. Im sure Duane wouldn’t stand for one of his suppliers taking his money and NEVER delivering the product.

  50. I believe the smart strategy is to support all pro 2A groups. I am a member of all if them. In order to capture the largest possible marketshare of supporters, every movement needs its moderates and absolutists

  51. I’ve been a life member since 2014 or so and I dont plan on withdrawing my support from the NRA anytime soon. I am unhappy with certain events and let my feelings be known but I agree they still have the most clout. I just wish I could tell what direction they meant to go in with putting North at the helmet. I know he caught a lot of political shit a little before my time but that’s about it. Didnt seem like a very forward looking choice.

    I toyed with joining other groups but, based on my father’s experience, harrass you with correspondence much more than the NRA has ever done with me. That’s one of the biggest gripes I hear about people bashing the NRA.

    • I agree with you. I joined the NRA in 1970, after graduating school because I began shooting in competition. A few years later I became an NRA Life Member.
      The NRA has changed a lot since then, especially when it comes to politics.
      That being said, I still do NOT regret becoming a “Life +” member. What bothers me the most are these bozos who constantly complain about the NRA, but don’t get involved with the NRA and try to change things. —- By the way, you can’t vote without being a Life Member, so if you want to change things, BECOME A LIFE MEMBER then run for the Board!

      • Out of curiosity, how many decades, you think, will it take to take over the NRA Board of Directors with its 76 members? We have been trying for a while!

      • “By the way, you can’t vote without being a Life Member, so if you want to change things, BECOME A LIFE MEMBER then run for the Board!”

        Apparently that is a futile approach. The board controls who get elected, regardless of the membership and life members.

        Look, it is a simple sales proposition. Offer me detailed results furthering my interests, and I buy; play word games, play inside “the system”, keep depreciating the value of my purchase, and I don’t buy.

        If, as Duane Liptak tells us, the best we can expect to get is 47th level quantum chess that only delays the inevitable, then NRA should be transparent about their strategy. But, contrast that to disrupter Trump, who works outside “the system”, and manages to actually win something.

        If a rolling containment (ever retreating, but only incrementally) strategy is the scheme NRA believes is the best they can offer, then be proud and loud about it.

        Or….or, openly threaten politicians with forceful primary challenges. A few destroyed political careers, then the anti-gun and the establishment “conservatives” will really have something to fear.

        One more, tangential item: I know how fund raising works. Fund raising generally nets 10% to the name brand for whom funds are raised. The rest goes to the fund raiser. The mantra of fund raiser organizations is, “Well, you can accept 10 cents on the dollar, or you can have nothing.” If, big IF, NRA is actually doing fund raising in-house, the equation pretty much still holds. (because all that free gift stuff, and publicity costs money, still)

      • So I have to pay them to change them?

        I thought capitalism meant your money is your property and your vote. If you do not like a product you do not buy it. If you buy their shitty product you lose. If you want something better you go somewhere else or you withhold money until they give you what you want. We can do that with private entities because they don’t have law enforcement to do their dirty work for them. They actually have to change if they want money that badly.

        Government workers do a shitty job yet still get paid well. So they continue to do a shitty job. Why work hard and do the right thing if you can sit around doing what you want when you want? America isn’t Korea or Japan.


  53. Not many because they’re like children who only see things their way and cannot function in the adult world.
    Or they’re trolls.

    • Wow! So, those of us who have continually supported the NRA in the past are just Soro’s paid Trolls? Those of us that have legitimate complaints are just “children”?

      Why not go ahead and call us “snowflakes”? I usually clown on leftists for being regurgitation specialists and NPCs; but, you NRA apologists are giving them a run for their money.

      • At least those snowflake Antifa leftists come out and fight for what they want. Meanwhile NRA members write checks and claim they can’t do anything because they have to go to work every single day forever.

      • He was definitely on a power trip. I bet his entire life is a power trip.

        “You’re going to calm down!” Cop shouts while flipping out yelling at a guy who was quiet and calm. LOL!

        Why are you doing this? Quiet guy exclaims? “I don’t like people testing me!” Cop shouts. LOL

      • Citizens must learn to follow what a Law Enforcement Officer ask them to do. All the guy had to do was shut up, let the Officer explain why he was being stopped and wouldn’t have been handcuffed. If a cop ask me to jump up and down , flap my arms like a chicken , and proclaim “I’m an idiot” . I do it, because they’ve got a gun, a badge, a bunch of buddies and a judge. Might not like it, damn sure pisses me off, but resistance is futile and jail sux.

        • I hope you’re joking, or are you that much of a coward?

          BTW, this gentleman was “settled with out of court” and the office was fired. But your advice is to “shake the bush boss”? GTFOH.

  54. Gun owners turning against the NRA would make gun grabbers like Bloomberg, Pelosi, and Schumer smile. They would like nothing more than to divide us.

    • The NRA giving away one right after another does make make gun grabbers like Bloomberg, Pelosi, and Schumer smile. That is the NRA’s appeasement strategy in the first place, and it is not working.

      • “That is the NRA’s appeasement strategy in the first place, and it is not working.”

        Maybe it actually is working.