The AP reports that the special prosecutor appointed to prosecute George Zimmerman for killing Trayvon Martin is about to file charges against Zimmerman. The Florida native will be arrested. The news will be welcomed by tens of thousands of people who’ve been demanding “justice” for Martin. A court of law will make the final determination whether or not Zimmerman acted lawfully. We shall see. [h/t MadDawg J] Meanwhile, I’d like to point out—as many have—that even if Martin’s killing was unjustified and race-related it pales into insignificance compared to the black-on-black shootings happening every single day in the USA. And if we’re turning our back on “cold” stats let’s turn our back to the horrific nature of those killings. Or, if you make the jump and read the story from mlive.com, not . . .
The Genesee County medical examiner said during a preliminary exam today in Flint District Court that 23-year-old Amyre Aikins died from six gunshot wounds.
Aikins and 25-year-old Oscar Knuckles Jr. were found shot to death by a burning car on North Ballenger Highway near Raskob Street on Jan. 18.
Today’s preliminary exam was for William Evans and Steven Webster, who are accused of shooting the two. Evans, 20, and Webster, 26, are each charged with two counts of open murder, armed robbery, carjacking, and felony firearms.
Dr. Brian Hunter testified that it appeared Aikins was shot by a shotgun and a second gun that was either a rifle or handgun. He said all of the shots likely contributed to Aikins’ death.
“They all contributed in that they all caused blood loss,” Hunter said.
The doctor testified that Knuckles’ death came as the result of being shot with three shotgun slugs, including one to the head.
Genesee County probation officer Greg Kalisz testified that he found two shotguns when he searched Evans’ bedroom in February.
The preliminary exam is scheduled to continue Wednesday morning because a police witness was working the scene of a different shooting Tuesday and could not testify.
A burning car shot those two poor boys? Dear me…
It is certainly an amusing double entendre, but the author of the article clearly meant that they were found in close proximity to a burning car, not that the burning car, itself, had killed the two men with gunfire.
I think you’re giving the media too much credit with your assumption. Either way, there is probably an activist group somewhere up in arms over attacks from burning cars.
I can just see the picket signs now: “Burning cars – behind bars!”
http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/11/opinion/granderson-violence-race/index.html?hpt=hp_c2
I think this is the best article I’ve read to date on violence and the “race card”. Definitely worth a read. Also notable, it is written by an African American.
Which is the only reason it hasn’t been decried as racist.
that and he is openly gay so it plays to their heart strings as well.
“Which is the only reason it hasn’t been decried as racist.”
That’s one of the reasons I posted it here. RF is white, so I know some will read his post and assume he has racial motivation. I think this article adds validity to the post and may help mitigate any race card flashing/flaming.
“that and he is openly gay so it plays to their heart strings as well.”
This has no bearing whatsoever on anything that he says in the post. He makes no mention of his sexual preferences in effort to gain support. You know, homophobia is often times just another form of projection….. No offense. Just stating a commonly held belief.
I had emailed that link to RF as an aside to the question that was posted here about what race blacks are afraid of. Glad someone else saw it and put it up. I mean where is the racial outrage over that incident???
“Zimmerman’s arrest was delayed partly because of Florida’s “stand your ground” law, which gives people wide leeway to use deadly force without having to retreat in the face of danger. Florida is among 21 states with such a law.” The press still can’t get any bit of reporting right. Why does anyone continue to read the msm?
Because real news with real facts and stuff is boring. It’s so much more interesting and controversial to make stuff up.
Because “Zimmerman’s arrest was delayed partly because the police didn’t have probable cause” just sounds so blah.
Regardless of color murders like the one described are horrible tragic events.
A question for the anti gun folks is was the gun or guns used legally purchased?
I am guessing no.
Also to KYgunner very good article. LZ Granderson is a well educated and even likes sports! Then again I think he is looking at society from a black perspective and wondering why there is outrage when Trayvon was killed but seems to not care at all when it is black on black or black on white. I happen to agree.
In the video it shows black on white violence, yet we don’t see thousands of whites protesting in the streets. On the same token with black and latino kids are killing each other it seems like life just goes on without notice.
I know there are groups in Oakland for example trying to stop the violence, but how well it will work over time remains to be seen.
Thanks Sanchanim.
Perhaps I am wrong, but the outrage came from the perception that the police and the D.A. did not investigate very thoroughly. I did live in a central-city where crime rates were rather high, and the community leaders did condem the violence; also, there were (and probably still are) efforts to reduce the number of attacks and murders. No one in Milwaukee ignored murders because they were black-on-black, and I am not sure murders elsewhere are accepted if they are perpetrated by people of the same skin color or ethnic background. I am sorry RF, but I think you are conflating these two issues.
karlb, you put your finger on the initial issue, but it’s gone way beyond that now. This story is now about one thing, and it’s not the death of a young man nor is it about justice. It’s about race. Farago didn’t do that, nor did you or I. The MSM did it, POTUS did it and the racial arsonists did it. In that chronological order.
“even if Martin’s killing was unjustified and race-related it pales into insignificance compared to the black-on-black shootings happening every single day in the USA”. Turning one isolated incident into a circus is insane! Liberals are so obsessed with emotion and agenda, they defy comprehension.
I’m curious what he’ll be charged with.
I’ll bet he’ll be charged with “Defending yourself from a black man with skittles if you’re white, Hispanic, or a combination of both”.
Or maybe, “Being the wrong race and attempting to defend yourself from someone from the right race”.
They might even add an extra charge for “being assaulted and not showing enough proof to the media that you are sufficiently injured” (this one carries a mandatory minimum sentence of 1000 eternities in hell).
I think the media has clearly shown that these things are just too illegal and must not be tolerated.
[Now removing tongue from cheek]
A trial is bad news. This is a lose-lose situation for everyone. If George is found guilty, he will be guilty of defending himself from attack. Then everyone will (incorrectly) blame and attack the SYG laws and our neighborhoods will be safer than ever for the criminals. If he’s acquitted, he’ll never have his normal life back and the ensuing riots will harm those who had nothing to do with this situation.
There is no jury anywhere that will be unbiased by the media hype in this case. Nothing good will come of this.
If he is aqquited, we will see “no justice, no peace”.
Rodney King version: 2012
Yup, and this incident wasn’t even caught on tape. I so wish we had one.
what if he is found guilty of defending an attack he started?
It doesn’t work that way. Once you halt your attack, even if you start it, and the other person continues, you are now the victim and can legally defend yourself.
And yet that is where the manlaughter distinction should come ino play, and not murder.
Why should someone be charged with manslaughter for defending themselves? This is not the intent of the law.
Manslaughter:
“The killing of a human being by the act, procurement, or culpable negligence of another, without lawful justification according to the provisions of chapter 776 and in cases in which such killing shall not be excusable homicide or murder, according to the provisions of this chapter, is manslaughter, a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.”
Chapter 776 reads:
“… a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony…”
It doesn’t say, “unless he or she started it”.
Manslaughter doesn’t automagically become the crime when someone dies and they’re not eligible for a murder charge. The same defense applies for manslaughter as murder.
IT SHOULD NEVER BE A CRIME TO DEFEND YOURSELF!!!
It’s he whole part about “culpable negligence of another, whithout lawful justification”. I am not sure his actions meet the qualification for justifiable action, and that is probably why he is going to court over this. He could be saddeled with agrivated manslaughter of a minor if the second degree murder doesn’t stick.
Well, unless more information comes to light about what happened, any conviction would be a tragedy.
everyone will (incorrectly) blame and attack the SYG laws
“Everyone” isn’t doing anything. The gun grabbers have been attacking self-defense since forever, and they’ll continue. Big deal.
Never be afraid of what the gungrabbers think. No matter what, they’re going to hate us anyway.
And in case you don’t know, here’s what the enemy looks like:
http://weaselzippers.us/2012/04/11/florida-community-activist-tries-to-justify-saying-the-things-about-to-happen-to-these-honkeys-crackers-pigs-pink-people-is-long-over-due/
Did you read either the last paragraph of the blog or the comments? Man, there is not a single person who comes out of this looking good.
MY question is why do any other cases of anything-on-anything crime matter and merit association with this case? Why do you have to point out the other cases of crime? The race of the two victims is only important, and merits discussion if you can prove that Zimmerman or Martin attacked each other or profiled each other base on race. That information could lead to intent or motive, otherwise this non-sense about crime stats is retaliatory and meaningless.
That is no to say that the crimes themselves are meaningless or that the disproportionate rate crime among minorities is not something to be concerned about. What I am saying is that, connecting black-on-black crime to this case is a defense for an argument that is flawed. It’s goal is to distract people away from the crime at hand, and to deter logic. In reality those cases have nothing in common with the Zimmerman case, or the outrage associated with it.
2a groups have been slow to criticize Zimmerman because they think that being critical of a man with a lawful permit may hurt the fragile nature of the cause they champion, however, this blog and other 2a rights groups should be more critical of people, and cases like Zimmerman. 2a supporters should be the ones assessing the situation and describing in detail the tactical mistakes, not the left or the MSM. We should be the ones to dissect the situation and find fault so as to educate others on how not to get into situations like this.
Where is the blog post by Tyler Kee about Zimmerman’s lack of situational awareness that allowed Martin to get within striking distance and close the Teuller gap? Where is the post by Dan Zimmerman about the poor decision to leave the car and rush into the fray, I mean didn’t the four NYC cops suffer from the same impatience that Zimmerman did? Why is’t there a post questioning Zimmerman’s movement the same why the police officer’s were, couldn’t Zimmerman also have been spared this ordeal if he too had waited for SWAT or the police to arrive?
Gun rights are fragile at the best times and if there is going to be a hard critque of the laws that allow for armed self-defense and the cases that challenge it, shouldn’t we be the ones doing the challenging? At the end of the day these types of case will define our ability to carry and use our weapons, regardless of the Bill of Rights, and it is my belief that challenging laws will only make the good laws stronger, and find fault in the unjust laws. If our beliefs and laws cannot stand to scrutiny, then they aren’t worth the ink used to print them.
++
I think most TTAG would readers agree that George acted wrongly if he followed Trayvon. I think most of your points are relevant except for the fact that no one knows what happened! There have already been articles posted about not chasing after attackers and such. I think I speak for most here when I say George’s actions were probably stupid. However, fortunately for all of us, stupidity is not a crime… yet.
I bet it would take the writers at TTAG about 2 seconds to point out all the flaws in George’s actions to show us all what not to do. They’ve done it time and time again. However, they don’t have the facts in this case. That is what makes TTAG great: the idea is to discuss the truth and the facts and they’re pretty good about sticking to them.
I was going to write the same thing, Guy, but you said it firster and better.
I agree with the TTAG’ stance in not taking sides when it comes to the initiation of force and who is ultimatly at fault, however, from the story telling done George’s father and the voice recoding of Zimmerman we know, or have been told, that ZImmerman left his vehicle to follow, and found himself surprised by Trayvon. One of these cricumstances is factual and backed up by Zimmermans voice, while the other is simply heresay made by the father who say’s that the story he is repeating is the story that was told to him verbatum by his son. We can use these established facts to critque Zimmerman.
My point is that from what we know of what happened that night there is enough to warrant judgement of the same type actions taken by other people that has already been commented on by TTAG. You can not comment on the parts of the story that are stil being srcutinzed, but that doesn’t mean tht you can’t pass valid judgement on the parts of the story that have been verrified by the police and Zimmerman. Not reporting on these actions altogther is missreprsenting the truth, and to notcreate a discussion about it on site whose sole existence is to crete meaningful discussion on this very subject is dishartening.
“ZImmerman left his vehicle to follow”
Well, leaving your vehicle to follow someone (even if advised not to by police) is not a crime, period.
“…there is enough to warrant judgement of the same type actions taken by other people that has already been commented on by TTAG”.
I think the issues to which you refer have already been addressed ad nauseum on this site already.
At this point, unless you are George Zimmerman, you have none of the facts. Everything is hearsay.
But thats the point, this site loves to comment on hearsay, they love to monday morning quartr back self defense situations, and they do so frequently EXCEPT with this case. Why is this case differenct from any other news fragment or DGU? That is what I want to know, and why can’t anyone write up a decent report about it.
I see your point but I think you’re missing a critical distinction here. We’re talking about the TTAG writers, not us comment contributers.
The TTAG writers (for the most part) attempt to stick to the truth and (mostly) post articles based on that. We, the armchair quarterbacks, discuss our opinions all the time about what happened. Sometimes its accurate. The rest of the time someone shoves your opinion down your throat. I post my opinions here all the time – that doesn’t make it fact. If the TTAG writers wrote the majority of their articles based entirely on their opinions, there would be much less support for this site.
The reality is that there is not enough factual information known about THIS case and therefore there is nothing to critique yet. Trust me, when the truth comes out (if ever), the TTAG writers will be all over it like white on rice.
My guess is that George read TTAG regularly and has taken the advice from previous posts: STFU!
Pathetic. Reeks of pandering.
Just a few days ago, no grand jury, looking like we were just going to go on with life, college students going to their spring breaks, everything ends.
Instead out of no where with zero notice after implying nothing was going to happen charges are going to be filed? A press conference on top of that.
I’m still wondering why this SYG law crap is still going. Zimmerman or his lawyers have never said crap about SYG, the police did and it doesn’t matter. I hate this idea that he is guilty if he continued to follow him, a 911 operator cannot tell you what to do, it holds no weight on the law.
I have to point out, unless he did this all in really calculated cold blooded murder, which why aren’t they charging him with 1st degree murder then, how did he from the get go, say he was going back to his car when Martin confronted him? Did he know it was going to be controversy that required him to lie about listening to the 911 operator? I don’t know of any law that says the 911 operator has the weight of the law, and whatever they say you must follow their orders, he could of easily disregarded and wanted to make sure he wasn’t doing anything and that’s when the whole confrontation started, there’s nothing wrong with that, and he could of easily got away with that still be allowed if Martin attacked him first. Instead he said he listened and went back to his car.
I just find it hard to believe some innocent good boy the media has tried to portray the thug like, would confront someone all alone for following him, the media fro the get go said Martin was 140 and Zimmerman was 250, therefore what happened couldn’t of happened, well how could of Zimmerman of chased down Martin and caught him when hes according to the media 5’9″ 250. That’s a fat guy who shouldn’t be able to keep up with a 6’3″ 140 lb kid.
Really I have to laugh about the girlfriend of Martin, and how the family was afraid of retribution, these people are programmed by the racialists in the MSM that the white man is out to get them therefore don’t try to do anything productive, white man will just stop you. No wonder they are so culturally inferior, and the ESL African immigrants excel in comparison to them.
I think you mean to downplay the race baiting or at least put it into context which is good… but the most effective way of doing that is to not invoke race.
I don’t see how the fact that black on black crime is bad makes this alleged crime “pale into insignificance”. If this turns out to be a crime it is exactly as significant as any other murder including any combinatorics of race. Arguing that this isn’t bad because something else is worse is not a good argument.
-D
I like the sardonic irony of the red white and blue flowers.
So would society have been better off if Trayvon kicked his ass and maybe even killed him? It would have been just another little news story no one would give a sh!t about, certainly not at the level we see now.
Amyre was one of the most loving caring people I know….Where is her justice??? Two men were captured…but she is still dead due to the senseless violence of Flint Michigan…this place is a hell hole…you are scared to leave your house, because you are afraid it will be your turn next…how about someone starts talking about fixing these poverty stricken towns….gun violence is NO JOKE here…its it out of control…last week an 8 yr old kid was arrested in my backyard for killing a 70 yr old woman….when is it enough…….we need to do something now!!! If its stopping gun control or teaching parents how to raise their kids…something has to change…. I miss you Amyre….
What does that have to do with bringing charges against Zimmerman?