Charleston, Pittsburgh and now Poway.
Unfortunately, however, there are some crazy lone wolves out there and, unfortunately too, there always will be, just as there will be in every country. It’s the luck of the human draw. The best we can do about them is to apply common sense. We can make sure our schools, religious institutions, etc., are well-guarded by trained personnel, including legally armed citizens under the Second Amendment, and have the best intelligence we can get about these crazies to stop them before they act. If we see something, we say something. We won’t be entirely successful at this, sadly, and such events will continue to occur. But we can do our best.
The greater danger to our country, however, is not the actions of these demented lone wolves who are, in essence, equal opportunity lunatics. The Poway guy evidently tried to burn down a mosque. The two (Poway and Pittsburgh shooters) are psychological second cousins to the homicidal maniac who shot up the Charleston church. Same pathology, different religions. But beyond their murderous outbursts, these people are essentially powerless in the culture at large. They are despised and rightly so. They accomplish nothing.
– Roger Simon in Synagogue Shooters Have Trump Hatred in Common
Nuke the chans.
Yes, I agree! To hell with the First Amendment!!!
DB, Oh, _there_ you are. 8>)
For the last time. Let’s stop declaring these bastards to be “crazy”. James Holmes was crazy. Adam Lanza was crazy. The Islamofascists and Nazi thugs doing these attacks are not crazy. They know what they are doing is an act of murder and terror and they do it with a purpose. Their ideology is the problem and we must fight it wherever it springs up. We don’t have a gun problem. We don’t have a mental health problem. We have a hatred problem.
“We have a hatred problem.”
And the BEST way to combat that is to create more gun free zones.
Granted, I’m a gunny and avid TTAG reader, but I Just. Don’t. Understand. why people think that GFZ or bans will work. It has worked…let me count…ZERO TIMES with any and all (insert item here).
All my many driving decades I have had a spare tire and never needed one. I won’t be caught without on though. I guess this is an apt analogy as some people will sit at the side of the road with a flat and wait an eternity for help to come.
Absolutely correct…they are just a touchy-feely measure of false security. They are in actuality just Mass Shooter Sanctuary Zones. I
Crazy???
Never forget the three L’s, Libertarians Liberals and the Left, totally support dangerously mentally ill people being able to roam freely in public. Cruz, Lanza, etc should have been locked up.
You understand that the FBI wants the Chans to stay open because they have their hands on it? Problem is, we don’t know exactly what their intentions are. Do they want to stop attacks or are they creating them?
We can’t trust the FBI. Their history is extremely bad.
The FBI??? The Jewish lawyers of the ACLU totally support “these chans”. Don’t complain about “hate speech” when Libertarians Liberals and the Left are in courtrooms spending a great deal of money to protect it.
The jews need to learn some Jewish history. Who said, “to every jew a 22”???
They need to learn that history. Christians have already learned this Jewish history. Members of the JPFO also know this.
If you nuke 4chan and 8chan in a couple days there will be a 16chan, 32chan, and 64chan…
More importantly, the best defense is a strong mindset leading to quick decisive action. The shooting was interrupted by an UMARMED worshipper who shouted and charged at the shooter making the shooter panic and break contact.
And also an off-duty BP officer who was armed (at the request of the rabbi).
The reports I’ve seen contained the best witness descriptions of what a command-voice should sound like:
“… so loud, the priest at a neighboring church heard him.”
“His wife & others present, said he sounded like 4-5 people shouting.”
Evidently, that’ll make any shitknuckle-sucking snowflake melt into a puddle of piss; armed or not.
“But beyond their murderous outbursts, these people are essentially powerless in the culture at large. They are despised and rightly so. They accomplish nothing.”
Oh, I don”t know… They certainly get the politicians motivated to attempt to “protect” us from them by attemting to pass more laws that prevent us from protecting ourselves. I believe DiFi and the Left love these crazies to death. Literally.
But do they? Only love them and make use of them, I mean?
Rahm Emanuel(Obomba’s chief of staff) said: “You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it’s an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before.”
So do they just love and use these crazies? Or do they create them on purpose? It’s quite a fine line, Is it not? They know they are politically useful. They know they can often use people’s emotions to get what they want by stirring the pot and dancing in the blood of innocents, and they do so.
So, how long until some one of them gets the bright idea to not only make emotional use of mass murderers(‘dancing’ in the blood for personal gain), but to create them on purpose?
The FBI has already done so, many times:
https://theintercept.com/2015/03/16/howthefbicreatedaterrorist/
so we know the idea has already occurred to the authorities. So, the only question is; Do they also create real murderers, or only the fake kind?
What can the argument be for that they didn’t? They just wouldn’t do such a thing? Study the history of people like Rahm Emanuel and then say(with a straight face), that they have some morals that would prevent them from doing something so evil. If one becomes aware of the history of politics, one soon learns there is absolutely nothing they will not do for power.
It’s obvious, at least to me. But then, I have studied them and read their writings. They have less morals than an alley cat, and I mean BOTH the Democrips AND the Rebloodlicans…
I wouldn’t put it past them, their visceral hatred of the 2A is that deep.
Watch crowdfunding places like GoFundMe to see if anyone sets up one for a mass shooter…
You should look at my post below.
Nothing new to this group: when seconds count, police are minutes away.
I’m sure that the vast majority of cops will do their best to ameliorate the problem…once the arrive.
Until then, it’s up to us.
Crazy thing. They reported that he called the cops and turned himself in.
These “crazies” just fall into the “useful idiot” category for DiFi and the other Leftist disarm-the-people camp. Stay focused on understanding that nullifying the Second Amendment protection for the right to keep and bear Arms is just a totalitarian “must have” in order to control you and take away your other rights and liberty. It’s a lynchpin for the destruction of the American Constitutional Republic and the ideals it was founded to embody and guarantee the most individual freedom for the most people ever known in Human History.
Yep. Those who commit these terrible atrocities will always be with us because when you set people free you accept the risk the “damaged” ones will abuse those freedoms and they do. The only protection against the abusers is the capacity to defend oneself and others immediately and effectively.
Not exactly 100% accurate, IMO.
There is an additional defense against the crazies, and it worked really well, right up until we abandoned it. It was called; “Due Process”.
These crazies usually signal their intentions well in advance of actually committing their crimes. Note the hundred or so police visits to the Parkland killer, months and/or years before the mass shooting. He was involved in lots of violent crimes before he worked himself up to the mass shooting. But all of these crimes, which would have been punished in times past (which used to remove them from society for both their own, and the society’s protection), were ignored and purposefully covered up by our own utterly dysfunctional system of injustice.
When a society rejects the rule of law, the law of the jungle is all that is left. A return to a real justice system, with due process and real punishment, is the real treatment for this illness, but since all of the authorities in the Western world are now insane with power, that won’t happen.
“We don’t have time for rational solutions. Much easier to fence off another square State.” -George Carlin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjjPlEW9bRM
Excuse me…
“fence off another RECTANGULAR State”
please excuse the slight misquote
The abandonment of “due process” is already essentially an established reality…or, at least the Left believes they can apply it selectively as politically expedient, but thanks for pointing-out the obvious.
It might be obvious to you and I, but there are many others who are not as informed.
I agree and see your point. The issue is that MANY people do not see the whole scope of what is being done within the U.S. today. They see bits and pieces, but do not, or will not, put it all together.
Alinsky published another list: stuff you have to take over or destroy to be able to impose the glorious revolution. “Disarm the people” and “control the legal system” are botb there, using other terms.
Interesting to me is that while his more famous list of rules, and more widely spread “community organizing” danced around “for what”, this list is explicit. “Here’s the stuff you have to control to force the proles into the brave new world.” “Fundamentally transform” you might say.
““Fundamentally transform” you might say.”
H’mm. That sounds familiar…
Oh, yeah, *now* I remember. It was in a speech in a Chicago public park in November, 2008…
It goes back way further than that. “Rules for Radicals” was published in 1971, but Alinski didn’t come up the ideas, although he might well have come up with that particular wording. The basic ideas are older than the printing press.
The Christchurch, Tree of Life and Poway shooters planned to get the 2nd Amendment repealed because it will start a civil war. A war they want so the white male kills and expels everyone that isn’t like them. The government would love for this to continue; they tried to get Muslims to attack America so they could create a police state, but now they have other “religious” people doing that for them.
A day or so ago, I read a CNN piece which mentioned nothing about the virulent anti-semitism behind the attack, or the heroes who intervened to cut short the the attack. Instead, the entire article was focused on blaming the attack on the firearm (the tool) used to perpetrate the attempted atrocity.
Socialist (read global communist) left media never misses an opportunity to program its consumers to surrender their own rights, and to demand that others do the same, with absolutely no accountability (Goebbels would be so very proud!).
I have to wonder, at what point do we actually push back in a meaningful way, and demand true accountability, and objectivity from those who call themselves “Journalists”.
These are all good and important points to make…there are some in this thread however who must get all their news, i.e. propaganda from CNN, MSNBC and the other MSM DNC mouthpieces and espouse their devious ideology. The ones who do and still pay lip service to the Constitution and a strong 2A are the most pernicious.
We’re already doing so. Nobody is ever going to STOP evil men(or women) from being evil, but note how few people are watching CNN or any other MSM source these days. They are withering and dying on the vine and they know it. It’s why they are acting so desperate, and getting more so each day.
The fact that few watch their stuttering and stammering green screen “reports” from whatever “war zone” they claim to be reporting from any more(usually their own parking lot), IS the push back. That’s how the average man pushes back against whatever corrupt system is ruling them this lap around the track. By refusing to participate in it any more.
The average person goes to the internet to get their news. They do not realize that the website owners use AI to manipulate them in ways the traditional media can’t. It’s a much more powerful tool because people believe they are the ones controlling it.
Actually you’d have to be a real moron to think the net isn’t controlling your content. It’s been widely reported online as well as in the old media, paper, radio, tv. the usual culprits.
We do no favors by labeling them all crazy. Gun grabbers want to prove we are all crazy by simply possessing guns.
Okay, here’s what we do then, we take mental health evals, and so do they, we’ll see who the “crazies” are..
That would be us. Mental evals are extremely subjective, whoever the evaluator thought was crazy when the eval started will be found crazy, unless money entered the evaluation in the meantime.
Like the random drug tests one of employers did. I was randomly selected in every test. And every test was returned with such a clean result it was commented it was almost a test sample used for calibration. (Hint: I don’t do drugs)
They were obviously fishing for something. However the test results for some of sales and consulting teams had interesting results and a few were walked.
Like most other industries who claim to offer services that ‘help’ us (lawyers for example), the mental health industry is really in the business of creating, or inventing situations and conditions that only the mental health industry (in exchange for considerable sums of cash) is equipped to deal with.
Putting the fox in charge of the chicken coop seldom proves to be a viable strategy.
So by extension you are saying that most dems in office are “mental health experts” because they are creating one disaster after another in the hopes of getting more dems elected. Their end goal is obviously to take over America once they have enough Dummy Legislators in place to stuff the ballot boxes in Congress. Will it then (finally) be time for the Tree of Liberty to get watered?
It obvious from reading the manifestos that these folks aren’t crazy. Tarrant specifically stated he chose to use guns in Christchurch to cause the State to institute draconian gun control. Easy to call that lunacy until the New Zealand government did exactly what he predicted, radically disarmed their citizens weeks after the shootings. Non-political mass shootings were already steadily moving the public towards more gun control; these radicals are giving an already existing trend a push. Earnest was clumsy copy of Tarrant (who planned his attack for 2 years), but if he had succeeded in killing more Jews in Poway, the cries for gun control would probably be irresistible in California and perhaps even nationwide. They might already be irresistible.
“Since Lunatics Will Always Be With Us, The Best Response is Armed Common Sense”
And THIS is the part that that liberals/leftists don’t understand…
They understand it 100%, and it makes them wet their panties! It’s NOT good when the Governed FEAR their Government. America was envisioned such that the Government SHOULD FEAR the governed, that’s why it always refers to “The People”, because that Body is the Fourth Leg upon which America was founded. For two Centuries the Government has lied about there being only 3 branches of Government, There are FOUR because the Political, Executive, and Judicial have ONLY the power ALLOWED BY THE PEOPLE, and WE have been too dang quiet for way too long.
I’m only concerned about lunatics during a full moon. Its the crazy’s in rusted out F-150’s that frighten me
With slightly different steels and rust coatings since the Japanese (and Europeans) introduced them to the car market in the ’70s, 150s don’t rust anywhere near as much as they used to. But that aside, I haven’t seen the correlation between such specific vehicles and violent assaults. Does your ex drive one or something?;-)
“Does your ex drive one or something?;-)”
Maybe, but I bet the main reason he mentioned an F-150 is because Possum is a marsupial, and they get *splattered* on the roadways in vast numbers annually.
(F-150s rust even less, these days, now that F-150 bodies are aluminum…)
The only thing my X drives is me crazy. …Under years of observation I’ve concluded that most possum murders are the result of a Ford pickup of one size or other. It seems they are the ones running back country roads, rebel flag flying, hound dog in the back. Dodges run a close second.
The choice to arm or disarm comes before the choice itself.
Will there always be crazies, but never the sane?
Are the violent competent, or the peaceful, too?
“Disarm them all!” makes sense if only crazies have skill and will. If good people can do some good, well, “Arm them all.” and they’ll do better. The choice to arm, or disarm comes after deciding whether people are competent, moral, and worth protecting.
During this latest attack we know of four people who chose in a chaotic instant to thwart the whack job’s little movie. One, non-military, did something they give trained soldiers medals for.
Myself, I think church goers (of any faith) who don’t want to worship armed, or don’t have arms, that’s Ok. Not all that much our business. Although “Arms for our Parish” strikes me as a hell of a charity.
Teachers and school staff who don’t want to equip themselves on the job can get a waiver as conscious objectors or similar. Giving them a special ID card, or forbidding their use of the number 2 seems a bit much. Maybe just on school grounds…
If we went back to public hangings just saying
Is the good rabbi familiar with the Old Testament Book of Nehemiah?
Since the Tora includes only the first five Biblical books, and Nehemiah is not one of those, I doubt that he would be. Most rabbis spend much more time reading the Talmud, instead of the Tora, and it is almost the polar opposite of the Tora or the Bible.
The Talmud is what these killers are very much against. It’s what drives them to attack violently. That and Trump’s anti U.S. policies. Which means there will be more violence at least until Trump is gone.
John,
I seriously doubt it. As I understand it, Judaism (as a faith/religion) seems to only regard the first five books of the Old Testament as being hugely relevant. They just don’t seem to care very much about the rest of the Old Testament. Why? I have no idea.
Probably because they regard the Talmud as a much more practical and useful book, from the standpoint of personal conquests.
And while religious nuts can quote selected scripture at the drop of a hat, do they realize most of the Old Testament is Jewish history?
Get used to it. Be prepared for it. It’ll get worse – a lot worse – before it gets better. And it may not ever get better.
It always gets better, and then worse, and then better, etc. Its the 8 (sometimes 9) stages of civilization.
After bondage, which is what we have now(IMO), spiritual courage always follows. It can’t help but, since subjugated and oppressed peoples have nothing left to lose. And after courage, liberty must follow, since it’s not possible to enslave a man of courage. One might be able to kill him, but one will never force him to bend the knee and forever belong to you, because he does not fear you. He would much rather die. And a man of courage with nothing to lose is an extremely formidable opponent.
And liberty guarantees abundance, which breeds apathy, and so on, all the way around the track and back for… whatever lap humanity is on now. Lap 100? 1000? Whatever the number, we’ve seen this track enough to have it memorized in detail.
But only for those few who pay attention.
That’s one theory. The trouble is that the track layout itself changes with every lap.
But it’s still a race where a group believes they will be the winner in the end.
Build a civilization then destroy that civilization.
The basic layout never changes. But it might will appear that way if one isn’t looking at the big picture. The paint, and the colors, and the banners and the advertising, all the signage, etc, change each time. But the hills and the valleys and the off camber corners, all of that stays the same.
Obviously, I’m speaking metaphorically of the trappings as the colors and such, and of the corners and hills, the basic layout, as; bondage, spiritual growth, courage, liberty, abundance, complacency, apathy, and dependence.
These are the eight corners that don’t change. Or haven’t yet. They are the basic framework that all the other trappings exist in. But I have hope that this time around we might, just might, be able to find the pit road out.
I LIKE that, ACS, Armed Common Sense, a counter to ACO!!! The left is horrified that an armed good guy can stop an armed bad guy. Of course, that poor SOB in Sri Lanka who kept a backpack wearer out of that one church should be celebrated worldwide as a hero. As should Lori Gilbert Kaye. Would Nancy of Dianne commit such an act?
Hell yes an armed population of law abiding people can reduce and in fact have reduced the damage the crazies and the violent sane people do. By shooting back at them, whether they hit them or not. We need vastly more good people standing up against would-be Nazis, Jihadists or people hearing the voices of demons in their demented minds.
But that’s late to the problem. Necessary, absolutely but still the problem starts earlier. Rebuild the mental health system we had 40 and 50 years ago. Correct what was wrong with it and bring it back. Act on the social media of violent people. Too many times these attacks are preceded by loud and clear threats posted on the internet. So get busy working out which ones to run after with lights and sirens and SWAT teams.
Arming the decent people is good. Leads to fewer dead people. Does not do enough tho, we’d see even fewer good people hurt if we had the means in place that we used to have.
You’re wrong. “Mental health” used to result in Sanitariums all over America filled with people drugged into submission OR Electro Shock Therapy, OR Labotomies to make them controllable. Many never got there in the first place because they got shot before they could be committed. The REAL difference? Back then the cops would look at the situation, accept that you were a reasonable person and if they were already acquainted with the perp, decide it was self defense, and clean-up the mess. It’s only been 75 years of liberals messing with “the system” and making problems for People willing to defend “themselves”… That’s the Polices JOB…. YOU might screw up…. WE’RE AFRAID OF YOU!!!! Ad Nauseum That’s made it NOT WORK.
I saw Californian news omit the part of the story where the synagogue used a gun to scare off the killer. They say the shooter’s gun malfunctioned and he was scared off… No mention of the border agent shooting at him. They did not want to admit a handgun saved a lot of lives from the big bad black weapon of war.
What they might do in the future is blame the judge that allowed a few days for the shooter to legally acquire mags larger than 10 rounds.
In a related story.
On that same weekend there was another attack planned in California. A 26 year old military veteran attempted to detonate bombs he planted around a public gathering. He wanted 50 dead from each bomb. However, the attack did not succeed because the FBI had set the whole thing up and gave the IEDs to the veteran without explosives. The veteran converted to Islam after doing his tours. His plan was to attack people like this Poway shooter as retaliation for New Zealand. He also wanted/planned to kill Jews for similar reasons as the Poway killer. When he met with the undercover agents he brought his AK47… He wanted to use bombs and guns to kill a lot of white nationalists and Jews.
The bomber was intercepted because he was on particular sites posting things. I think one of these sites is the one that produced Christchurch, Tree of Life and Poway.
The FBI theoretically could have stopped the Poway shooting as they were warned and were in the area. Instead they were busy setting up a fake bombing.
I saw reports that at least one person saw the Earnest’s post and alerted the FBI but there was not enough time to respond: https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/04/claim-alert-pro-2a-advocate-warned-fbi-of-likely-mass-shooting-half-hour-before-chabad-of-poway-synagogue-attack/
You can google for other reports.
Before the internet the IRA would call the police station to say a bomb would be exploding in the next 10 or 15 minutes. It was bearly enough time to evacuate the private business before the bomb went off.
Unfortunately,Leftard civilian disarmament proponents refuse to fathom the facts of this simple truth,thus the reason they are referred to as Leftards. Perhaps there should be a law against the mentally disabled being elected to public office.
Great comments on what’s really going on.
I like the comments about living in a free society.
I just watched the world news and again, they never mentioned the man with the “hand gun” at all!
Just that the AR 15 jammed, etc.
Lmao
The only way this is stopped is by having “a good guy with a gun”.
But in California the gun owners there can’t even get the required number of signature’s on a pro gun ballot petition.
But voters there did vote to raise the price of gasoline.
Can you help people in California who don’t want to help themselves by voting for Freedom???
It seems they prefer proud open gay gun grabbers like Tom Ammiano, who wrote the law that makes stalking and rape victims, and everyone else, wait an extra 10 days to get a gun. He was also responsible for ending high school rifle teams in most of the state
Armed self defense is simply not a priority in California. But defecating in public, having sex in public (with permission from the government) and being able to legally smoke pot in public are higher priorities.
BTW
I met another California couple at the gun store today. It was her 21st birthday. And he brought her to purchase her first firearm. A glock gen 5. They told me their conservative friends and families are leaving the state.
Interesting that when I was a kid, I met Liberals who came from conservative states to live the “dream life” in California. And now years latter I conservatives who are “evacuating” California, moving to TN, KY, etc.
Here we go folks!
https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-san-diego-synagogue-shooting-hero-20190428-story.html