Incredibly, there are still people in the outdoor and shooting sports community who are attempting to remain apolitical. They shy away from definitive terms like liberal or conservative. These folks still believe that, if you just try hard enough, you can win a logical argument with people whose decisions are driven by emotion.
I’ve been scolded and advised not to “provoke” the anti-gun crowd, those who wish to disarm lawful American citizens. We need to be reasonable and willing to compromise I’ve been told.
I will admit that I understand the origins of what I call the “reasonableness disease.” it stems from mirror thinking. Humans at their base level all believe that everyone else in the world think and behave as they do. If they consider themselves a reasonable, rational person then they expect all other people to act the same.
While this type of thinking is childish and naïve, it’s nonetheless very prevalent, particularly among those who would rather not deal with problems head-on, but sidestep them.
Let me set the record straight, as least as far as I am concerned: if you are a person who is actively lobbying a government agency, be it local, state, or federal to restrict the ownership of firearms by lawful citizens of the United States, you are endangering me as an individual, my family, my community, and by extension my country.
In modern America the tool most readily used to protect the individual from violence, oppression, and tyranny is the firearm. Hundreds of years ago governments worldwide outlawed the possession of swords by peasants to ensure they paid their taxes and obeyed whichever ruler sat in power. The issue today is the same; disarm the peasants so they can be ruled.
When you actively seek to disarm me you are deliberately attempting to subjugate me and put my family in mortal jeopardy. That fact makes you my enemy.
The Bill of Rights of the Constitution of the United States did not create the rights of man, it simply enumerated and affirmed them. When you seek to nullify or circumvent the Constitution of the United States as well as the Constitutions of each individual State, you are my enemy.
Pretending that your enemy doesn’t exist doesn’t make it so. Ignoring your enemy only gives them the time and opportunity to strengthen their position and deliver their final blow. Attempting to argue logic with a man ruled by emotion is no more productive than attempting to teach Latin to a hog. It wastes your time and annoys the hog.
I’m reminded of on apt analogy of compromise. A burglar breaks into a home and demands that the homeowner give him all of his money. The homeowner stubbornly refuses. The burglar then demands ninety percent of the owner’s money. The homeowner again will not comply. Now the burglar demands half of the owner’s money. Again he refuses to hand over a penny. “You just won’t compromise on anything will you?” the frustrated burglar says accusingly.
How do you bargain with someone who wishes to endanger your family? How do you compromise with a person who seeks to subjugate you and nullify your God-given right to protect your life? In what manner should you negotiate with a group of people who seek to circumvent and make irrelevant the foundational document that has made the United States of America the greatest and most prosperous nation ever to grace this world?
The answer is…you don’t. No bargaining, no negotiation, and no compromise. The enemy is the enemy and the sooner you accept that fact, the better equipped you will be to defeat them.
Paul Markel has been a firearms industry writer for thirty years and is the author of the book “Student of the Gun; A beginner once, a student for life.” Paul hosts and produces “Student of the Gun” a show dedicated to education, experience, and enjoyment of firearms.
This article was originally published here in 2013.
The firearm blog is one of them, they refuse to address their followers to take actions. Any firearm related business/blog/store should be obligated to address visitors/customers and ask them to take actions to protect the 2nd Amendment.
You use the word “address,” but I don’t think it means what you think it means.
When you “address” someone,you are using their address, as in writing their address on an envelope.
Maybe you mean “incite”? Or “encourage them to an action”?
Seriously Big Bill, Learn to use a Dictionary;
Address:
noun
a speech or written statement, usually formal, directed to a particular group of persons:
the president’s address on the state of the economy.
a direction as to the intended recipient, written on or attached to a piece of mail.
SEE MORE
verb (used with object), ad·dressed, ad·dress·ing.
to direct a speech or written statement to:
to address an assembly.
to use a specified form or title in speaking or writing to:
Address the president as “Mr. President.”
SEE MORE
verb (used without object), ad·dressed or ad·drest, ad·dress·ing.Obsolete.
to make an appeal.
to make preparations.
Big Bill learned English from a GI he serviced.
Mary Lou… Are you jealous because no self-respecting GI will service YOU?
Dumtwat. Big Bill, you prolly think Lincoln’s ‘Gettysburg Address’ is a place in Pennsylvania.
HOORAY!! Great piece. Let’s see… they aim to destroy my world and all I have dear. I wonder what a “moderate” response might be?
NAH. “Violence is NEVER the answer.” Many people have heard THAT before. Most of them are dead, or enslaved.
“Ah,” you say. “How bad could enslavement BE? Be REASONABLE!”
THIS bad: DEAD.
As I prefer: “Violence is ALMOST never the answer. However, when it IS the answer, it is often the ONLY answer.”
Violence is a language.
I thought that was language is violence? It’s so hard to keep up these days.
Let’s see…Based on the history of racism there are statues torn down or removed, there are name changes to ball teams. pancake boxes and the latest is no more Uncle Ben’s Rice and now it’s just plain old “Ben’s.”
Being as racism is seen as despicable by the vast majority of America Racism moves anything from molehills and mountains. Of course molehills such as the aforementioned are nothing more than concocted attention grabbing tokens used to keep eyes off the long, long racist history of the democRat Party. For this discussion Center X is a mountain called Gun Control that needs to be moved and no Gun Control democRat is ever going to do it.
Left up to so called Gun owners and “sportsmen” Gun Control is something that they wait around for a court to decide all while Gun Control is the biggest racist and nazi turd that still exists on the planet. And that is all thanks to the Do-It-For-Me gun owners sitting around on their butts and being applauded and laughed at by democRats. If roles were reversed democRats would be beating the racist history of Gun Control over the heads of gun owners. That you can take straight to the bank.
Some people have to be either gutless wonders or they are politically inept history illiterates to sit around like bumps on a log while Gun Control and all of its despicable racism and genocidal baggage skates on by.
Are you hearing me Tom Grisham the mouthpiece for Gun Talk Radio? After our repeated e-mails ol’ Tom continues to pay little attention to the atrocities that come along with Gun Control no matter where its been or where it goes. IMO…Both tom and another talk show host moon griffon do nothing but string Louisianans along. Look at this gun over there, look at that football team over there. Looking everywhere but at what matters gave Louisiana a dumbfuk democRat Gov. who refused to sign a no license needed conceal carry bill, etc.
And to cover tom’s butt he always want people to show up in person at the state capitol to protest. He knows most people cannot drop things and take off for such impromptu ventures so when something fails it can be blamed on crowd turn out. Tom’s game is to keep the ball bouncing and keep the cliff hangers coming. It’s anything and everything but it’s very little to nothing when it comes to using the despicable History of Gun Control to Abolish Gun Control…Now Tom go get you a box of “Ben’s” and make yourself some Gumbo.
Gov., language is violence, along with speech is violence, and silence is violence.
Ergo, they are fully justified in violently attacking us at any time for self-defense…
Violence may not be the BEST option, but it is still AN option.
Violence is always the answer when nothing else will solve the problem, because violence always solves the problem. When violence IS the problem, you just have to be more violent.
“When violence IS the problem, you just have to be more violent.”
Settled the hash for the former nation state of Carthage.
“Ah,” you say. “How bad could enslavement BE? Be REASONABLE!”
In the south, the public schools teach that slavery of African-Americans was benevolent, and American blacks had it much better once they’ve been taken from their homeland in Africa.
So why should you or anyone else object to enslavement?
Why, slavery is even endorsed by the king James version of the Bible, how could you possibly object to being enslaved?
Perfect example of a Sea Lion.
What public schools in the south teach that slaves were better off as slaves today?
None.
I’m a super troll.
This is how I get off.
Oh and chickens, I love chickens.
Miner, I agree with Mike V: show some evidence for that claim. I’m gonna bet you can’t.
Africans believe that those sent to America were the lucky ones. Tell the Africans they are wrong ace.
This week, there have been shootings in NM, TX an KY. Why is news like that not being covered here at TTAG? I believe reports like that would make for a more balanced site and would put things like the ethics and morality of guns in a more balanced perspective.
There’s shootings every day in strict gun-control cities. If TTAG followed all those there would be no room for anything else.
Hell the MSM doesn’t even cover them. Unless they involve white folks.
“Hauptgefreiter” is a classic example of a left-wing troll and a perfect representation of how they think. This fool actually said to himself, “Hmmm, how can I best camouflage myself to blend in with this barbaric tribe? Well, they’re all neo-Nazis, so perhaps a pseudonym appropriate to a German soldier of World War II will gain their trust… Either that or ‘Negroh8tr’… I’ll run it by the other fellows at the co-op and see what they think…”
are you a corporal in the German or Austrian military, or are you a troll who thinks the German word will let you blend in?
gej99 is a Stasi member who is proud of sending people off to mental institution’s for disagreeing with communists policies and having them lobotomized. He’d do the same thing here. In fact he advocates every chance he gets. Cause socialism is sooo cool. He loves being able to kill those who don’t agree with his ideas.
Last week, the governor of my state used emergency powers to have introduced legislation, in the middle of the night, that defied natural law and effectively made me a criminal. There are no words strong enough – no matter their tone, screamed or whispered – that can penetrate your illogic nor describe how I perceive this affront. The government of my state IS my enemy. Your call to distract my attention toward this tragedy, or that shooting, while my enemy plots my enslavement, puts you squarely on the side of the enemy.
There is no such thing as “the ethics and morality of guns”. Ethics and morality are traits that can only be used to describe people. If you want to discuss the morality and ethics of the people using firearms for ill that is one thing. If you want to discuss the cultural and environmental conditions that lead people to misuse firearms that’s also fine. But if you want to personify an inanimate object and somehow suggest that a person is evil because of the availability of firearms, well then thats ridiculous. Theft, murder, rape, robbery, evil, war; these are all concepts that existed long before the invention of firearms. Firearms have nothing to do with their existence. Its impossible to think that with any sort of credible rationale. They are merely the most convenient tool with which to perpetrate them. That being said, removing firearms from the equation doesn’t solve the problem. It just causes people to revert to the second most convenient tool, that is IF you can even effectively remove the first, which you can’t.
Balance is compromise in such a context. Americans get hit up all the time with unbalance by the MSM. This site does report murders using guns. It would lose its value by seeking to ‘change’ to some moderate political rag trying to be friends with and respect everyone.
Herr Hauptgefreiter, anti-freedom nuts might not be clinically insane, but I would consider the possobility with this insane idea that a sign on the side of a building with a circle and slash over a gun will keep out a homicidal maniac with a gun, especially when all evidence to the contrary proves otherwise.
You see, if I compromise and give up more of my freedom for a solution proven to be completely ineffectual in stopping a mad man with a gun, like an AWB, that would not only facilitate more of my freedoms being taken away, it would empower homicidal maniacs to kill more people, it would validate a belief system based on delusion and denial, leading to bigger government leading to tyranny, dictatorship and mass death.
In other words Herr Hauptgefrieter, you might be crazy, but I’m not.
Are you delusional?
Haup: You’ve been sniffed out, libtard. You can go ahead and kill yourself, but let us who wish to remain alive, be rid of your presense, by you going away.
“Hauptgefreiter” – People die everyday, that’s what people do. When People are stripped of their Natural, God Given Rights and Die because of it, that is a crime in and of itself.
In the United States, the power of government derives from the consent of the governed. In the legal contract, know as the United States Constitution, the People and the several States agreed to delegate or cede some of their powers to the then new Federal Government. As part of that agreement, the first 10 amendments to the Constitution recognized and enumerated some of the pre-existing Rights of the People, but did not create or establish them. Therefore the Federal and State governments have no authority to restrict or terminate these Rights.
Government is a necessary Evil, the key word being “Evil”, The Right to Arms has been around before the existence of modern humans. It is only with the creation of Government that we have seen the attempts to disarm people for the simple purpose of protecting those in power and their allies, who never give up their weapons.
All Gun Control is the providence of Evil Men who wish to strip the People of all their Rights and perhaps grant privileges in their place, that can be modified or revoked as needed. Just as a “Little Bit of Slavery” is 100% unacceptable, so is a “Little Bit of Gun Control”, as we will not tolerate restrictions, limits or bans on the tools that keep us free. We will fight to the death to protect our Rights and the Rights of future generations.
Short of complete Genocide, the Gun Controllers will never win, as we stand ready to fight.
“All Gun Control is the providence of Evil Men who wish to strip the People of all their Rights“
Does that include Ronald Regan and his signature of the gun control Mulford act?
Does that include Donald Trump and his ban on bump stocks?
Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you exhibit 536 of Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS).
The 45th President allowed the “bumpstock ban” to occur as a tool of appeasement for the hysterical anti-gun mob. It had minimal affect and is unenforceable. Much worse actions could have happened after the Las Vegas attack.
As for California Governor Reagan; that was a well intended, yet terrible mistake. Most of us will forgive that “evil” act due to the overwhelming positive things that President Reagan accomplished.
Almost ZERO ballots rejected in Georgia this election. In years past, over 6%. Not possible. Must have signature check on envelopes now. Very easy to do. Dems fighting because they got caught. Far more votes than needed for flip.
Im not interested in a “balanced perspective” because my enemy sure the fvck isn’t. When CNN, MSNBC, et al, start running defensive gun use stories for every anti-gun inner city violence or spree killer story I’ll entertain reconsidering my position.
They can balance on this 🖕 they have written thousands on anti gun laws, all unconstitutional. Time to start over, at the beginning, there is only one true “gun law” in the USA. They say compromise yet they give up nothing we loose more every time.
Anyone can sudmit an article. I have thought about doing myself for a while now. But I need to get off my a$$ and do it. I have had several different ideas. I just need to submit one.
It would be interesting to note that a cop is 19 times more likely to be killed by a black than vice versa. Its also just as likely that a white will be a victim of a hate crime by a member of that noble race as it is for a black to be victimized by a white. This would be interesting to see.
Hitler was a Hauptgefreiter, during WWI.
Hear, hear!
“Fair and balanced”? Why don’t you go to FOX NEWS? Next you’ll want us to give equal time to the “other side”. SCREW THAT. We already have Mikey Numbers. Unfortunately. He’s a good sort… FOR A TAPEWORM.
Let me see…. the friend of my enemy is my… WHAT?
Well said!
I agree 100% People keep telling me we need to expand our support. Liberal vs Conservative is a losing arguement they say, as there are liberals who like guns too. The problem with that is that liberals will always abandon you win you need them the most. The Party always comes first. So why waste my time and energy trying to get them join our fight, when they will roll over on you the minute their leaders crack the whip? Gun control is pure politics, the left wishes to disarm us, the right does not.
Full disclosure: there are liberals here. Gun-owning ones. Are we supposed to invite Chuckie Schumer, the Oleaginous One?
I know there are liberals here. I know there are a lot of liberals who like guns. But when the rubber meets the road, they don’t vote freedom first. If they vote for the very people who want to disarm us, who gives a f*ck how about how much they like guns?
Not all of us liberals voted for the jerk(s) in office.
@ Chuck: Exactly!
ALL the people who who are trying to take away our freedom (firearms) and thus, our Republic, are of the liberal persuasion.
I am a liberal. The founders were liberals.
Liberalism is the idea of maximizing individual liberty. Liberal and liberty have the same root word: liber.
Today’s political leftists seek to dress themselves up as liberals, but they are not; they are leftists. Wanting to be called liberals is just one more way in which they try to dominate the political landscape by controlling the way we use language.
Post mid 60’s……liberal equals libtard. Before the mid 60’s you would have been (mainly) correct.
“Today’s political leftists seek to dress themselves up as liberals, but they are not; they are leftists.”
So, why is it that even the real “liberals” continue to vote Dim? When you buy a pig in a poke, your deserve the skunk you purchased, no?
They call themselves Libertarians Liberals and leftist. Those aren’t my words. It’s theirs. And they don’t support freedom. They support license. And they don’t want to be judged (the 1st amemdment) and held responsible for their actions.
All three west coast states are being disarmed. But you can smoke dope and have sex in public, and piss and poop in public. In the Major cities yes. Not in the small towns. Not yet at least.
btw
The first time I had ever heard of a “Libertarian Socialist” was 8 years ago. And it was on TTAG!!! I had no idea, after listening to Dr. Ron Paul every week on a Libertarian radio station back in the 1990s. Yes, I know he is not Left wing.
“But you can smoke dope.”
So smoking brown stuff is ok but green is not?
Alcohol and acetaminophen but no codeine . . . unless you have a script?
I don’t see the problem with guns and drugs. Yeah, they are dangerous but then effective things usually are. Urinating, defecating, and shagging in public are low class. If your society has de-evolved to the point where you need laws against such behaviors you are probably screwed. I would support misdemeanors for those behaviors though. Those already exist. They are just not being enforced.
I just want freedoms back that our ancestors use to have. Proper people, who wore hats, legally did opiates and coke. Probably in some old timey tincture but hey freedom. Poppy and cannabis fields were all over the east coast at the end of the revolution. It was the religious left that banned/regulated both weapons and drugs during the early 20th century.
Some people here don’t like Taurus firearms or Mini-14’s. If so do not buy one. I do not support drinking and driving but because some people do it does not mean I want to ban, or impose heavier regulations on, alcohol. It’s all about freedom.
*BTW the weed the kids smoke these days is often not even green. It is often blue, purple, or not even weed (dab). It’s weird.
I am not trolling. My question is serious. A hallmark of good journalism is objective unbiased presentation of news. It should be up to the reader to decide what to read. The good thing about sites like TTAG is that they deliver a counterbalance to the mainstream media. But what good is it, if a site is biased in reporting only articles that support one side of the story?
Concern troll.
+1
Hit the bull with the first shot.
I had to look it up. I approve of this message.
Our originol exchange and the one with anonymous got cut. But short answer in my opinion. This isn’t a news site. It’s a progun site. Farago is under no obligation to discuss every gun related incident nation wide.
And are you a real lance corporal?
Yes, I am a real lance corporal. Robert Farago explores the ethics and morality of guns. How can you have a one-sided ethics or morality? And how come that someone deviates from the mainstream opinion here, points something out and is branded a fake or a troll?
Did you not see our post on gun show NDs this weekend? Or our IGOTD posts? Or Nick’s report that Fox News’ poll shows a great deal of public support for universal background checks on all gun purchases? I’ll let you dig ‘em up.
Haup: You must have been stunned at the ease at which you were sniffed out.
Do you love us despite our imbred, trailer trash ways?
Please, use the full power and tender mercies of a wiser, larger and more powerful state to remove these baby killing instruments from our ignorant paws. You know us better than we do, dont you.
Obviously your reading comprehension is somewhat limited on this topic.
TTAG isn’t a site that “explores the ethics and morality of guns.” Instead, it explores the ethics and morality of those who use guns, and those who oppose that use.
Stick around, and before too long (because it’s obvious you haven’t been here long) you’ll understand the difference. Maybe.
Haupt you are trying to reason with a lot of paranoid people here on this forum that are either in dire need of mental health care or have never even graduated from High School. I am sure you would have more success convincing a 5th grader who on average are better educated and far more in control of their mental faculties and emotions.
SA-Mann dacian. You’ve jumped into a thread that is 8 years old. You low iq types can’t read simple dates? You’re the perfect recruit for the modern brownshirts, antifa.
The main problem, at least as far as I can see it, is manpower and topic-saturation. TTAG simply doesn’t have enough writers to cover every single gun-related event, and at the moment the focus is on combating disarmament and their articles reflect that. In any other climate I bet we’d be a lot more likely to see articles of the events you describe, but at present I really doubt they want to funnel their very limited resources into something that might make their readers even more exhausted than they already are. If you really care about people learning about that stuff, post the links to people covering it yourself, at least then you manage to spread word about it.
This isn’t a journalistic enterprise. It is a GUN BLOG. If you want hard straight news, go read the New York Times.
(yes, that was a joke)
You make an argument for balance, which is fine.
I agree there should be balance, but at what scale
are you referring to? Should balance be at every
level from major outlets to one man blog? Or does
balance only have to be at a national news level?
How do you feel about larger news organization
such as MSNBC, CBS and CNN? As many on this
site may agree, TTAG would have to proactively
mail out tinfoil hats to counter some of the
“arguments” played in a large portion of the media.
Do you advocate the limiting of the 1st Amendment
to enforce a balance? Who gets to decide when
a topic is or is not balanced? Does one have to
engage absurd notions in the interest of balance?
Do I have to accept an opposing viewpoint if it is
not based on factual evidence? For example, if I
say the earth is round, do I have to address those
that believe in a flat earth? Would a flat earth
theory hold as much relevance without facts?
At what point does the opposing view get
discounted?
“Do you advocate the limiting of the 1st Amendment
to enforce a balance?“
Yes, we already have restrictions on the first amendment regarding slander and libel, as well as terroristic threats of violence.
No right is absolute, and the Supreme Court of the United States of America has made that decision repeatedly, including Republican justices.
Those examples are not “restrictions” or even abridgements to the freedom of speech. Those are examples of speech that results in consequences for intentional misuse or abuse. Much like murder is against the law, owning a firearm is not. We punish the individual act.
“This week, there have been shootings in NM, TX an KY. Why is news like that not being covered here at TTAG? I believe reports like that would make for a more balanced site and would put things like the ethics and morality of guns in a more balanced perspective.”
OK lets take ONE city, say Chicago.
Last week there were 137 shot and 19 killed.
It was actually a pretty calm week.
If TTAG covered just ONE cities shootings there would be no balanced website.
You would end up with this: https://heyjackass.com/
Now just to blow your mind, what if we did this on a national level?
How many people in the USA are shot daily?
TTAG is as balanced as a pro 2A website is going to get.
Criminals shoot each other and many times they shoot the innocent.
Yet I go through a background check every 14.8 days because I have a permit to carry.
I’m a law abiding United States citizen who hasn’t had a ticket since 2007.
“OK lets take ONE city, say Chicago.”
Ok, take it. We don’t need it.
there is actually one one story and it’s call “the truth”. Everything else is lies and propaganda. And the truth is the anti gunners want to relieve us of ALL our firearms so they then can conquer, control and enslave us. Wake up, it has nothing to do with any of the things they claim. Look back into history what happened when those in power of a country confiscated the firearms of it’s citizens. Look at Germany when Hitler took it over. Does the word NAZI ring a bell? Russia, China, North Korea…look at them all.
A rank or title is earned. You do not identify yourself as Doctor Anonymous, do you?
Like Benny Hill said, who goes there? friend or enema. I wish s bradys followers could see the lady for who she really is, Randy
Compromise? Not with my rights, you don’t. That’s like negotiating depth with a rapist. Is it less a rape if he only puts it halfway in?
No, thats illlegitamet rape(sorry for the levity,& poor spelling). I feel the same as you on compromise, Randy
I don’t particularly like the politics talk. It is mostly taking complex views and replacing them with stereotypes. Republicans voted in New York for their AWB too. Once you assign political party affiliation you assign party lines as well that remove individual thought. I don’t care what party you represent, where you are from, your skin color, income level, what car you drive; if you want to take away my second amendment right you are my enemy, and lately there have been more enemies in the news than allies.
Unfortunately, there is a double standard in this entire debate. The media can name-call and slander all they want, but as soon as the pro-gun side does the same we will lose credibility. We are in a losing fight of emotion vs facts, when relying on facts we must always remain calm and collected, if we become emotional we’re entering their realm and can’t possibly win.
Replacing independent thought with party lines is what has allowed for this situation in the first place and allows it to continue; if people were to actually do any kind of research they’d see none of these anti-gun measures will accomplish anything and that disarmament will only bring more crime and put everyone in danger (like Cambodia and the UK). In addition, minimizing your opponent and not taking their arguments seriously will escalate conflict and degrade our reputation. Even though they may be (and usually are) wrong on every point we can’t just use their tactics and refuse to listen and scream “you’re wrong” again and again, we have to show them they are wrong and hopefully they are willing to accept the reality. The problem in all this is that some, from all parties, are so stuck in their paradigms they are unwilling to accept reality. It is frustrating, but we can’t afford to degrade the perception of our supporters, most already seem to think we’re backwater hicks harboring moonshine and illegal guns, we need to rise above that first.
Think more Cpl. Joshua Boston and less James Yaeger (even though he did apologize) and we might just change some minds.
μολὼν λαβέ,
Fred
well said!
Of course reason will be used. But we must also use EMOTION, just like the libtards. Warfare is a total thing. All must vote appropriately in 14′ and 16′ to hold those from either party accountable (alot of dem heads should roll). Alot of morons thought and said Barry would not do what he did.
Lesson learned (or it damn well should have been).
Well In my opinion the real issue is not guns or bullets. The issue is simply that not every person should have the right to own a gun, e.g. criminals, minors and mental health patients. However, gun advocates and liberals alike are so extreme and paranoid in their views that any real discussion just ends in personal attacks and slander. Because people that are being fed an opinion, people that are too lazy to think for themselves, people that are too afraid to take on an opinion that defies the general consensus, will always be divided.
They can’t. None of those groups can own guns as it is now. Every one of these tragic incidents has occurred because the current regulations are violated. You cannot regulate actions that are committed outside the law.
Woher kommst du wieder?
Mental health patients? really? I hope what you meant was serious mental problems. This will be one of the sticking points as the bradys will want to start with everyone taking a mild tranquilizer, Randy
“not every person should have the right to own a gun”
And right there is the problem. The only difference between you and the loony left is the definition of who those people may be. Why shouldn’t an excon who has paid their debt to society have ALL rights restored? It that person no longer worthy of protecting their self or their loved ones? Why shouldn’t minors own guns? My 15 year old daughter owned 5 and very responsibly at that. I bought my first military surplus rifle from a catalog when I was 14. No background check. Delivered to our door. Bought the ammo at the local hardware store. Background checks serve absolutely no compelling governmental purpose whatsoever. Anyone who wants a gun for nefarious purposes will get one. Laws do not prevent, they protect. So the real question we don’t ask is…
If we don’t trust someone with a gun, then why are they allowed to walk amongst us in the first place???
“If we don’t trust someone with a gun, then why are they allowed to walk amongst us in the first place???”
Because guns make criminals out of otherwise law abiding people. Without guns, we wouldn’t have criminals. Guns make people think they can get away with anything, and that they are immune from consequences because guns can kill everyone who would want to stop a criminal with a gun.
Guns create in humans an aura of invincibility, righteousness, power, persuasion and control. No guns, no gun crime. Once guns are totally banned and confiscated, guns in the underworld will eventually degrade and fail (criminals don’t maintain guns, they just steal other ones).
Imagine there’s no evil. It’s easy if you try.
Hopefully. /sarc
Excellent…most excellent. I wholeheartedly agree…there is no “compromise” with the anit-gun crowd. Thier aim is to eliminate firearms alltogether.
Provoke those Fascist jerks. No compromise with Fascist who want to destroy our constitution.
Gov Cumo looks like a defiant determined Mussolini with his fist and jaw clenched. Joe Biden has also been doing lots of clenched fists lately. It must be a new Democrat manly-macho tactic.
According to Biden, he’s driven an 18 wheeler and can double-clutch a four-box, has been an anthracite coal miner, and beat up a thug called “Corn Dog” with a length of chain. He’s the US equivalent of Vladimir Putin
At the end of the day, gay, straight, white, black, latino, asian. female, liberal, conservative, or for that matter-WHATEVER. the common thread that unites us all is the possession and love of firearms. whether they be pistols, revolvers, ak’s, ar’s, sks’s, 1911s or for that matter any other style, brand or type. We are all in this battle together, or not. if we decide to segregate ourselves according to our politics or dislikes of certain political entities, we will be doomed to failure. this is a UNIVERSAL fight for ALL gunfolks. Lets see if we can find the unity that does not elude the haters. DON’T LET THEM WIN……..MOLON LABE……….
To quote one of the founding fathers:
“Gentlemen, we must hang together or most assuredly we will hang separately.”
Keep up the great work!
PS: I’m Chris Dumm with thetruthaboutguns.com, and I am a Student Of The Gun.
People who think {choose one: “war”, “violence”, “fighting”} is not the answer simply don’t understand the question.
The question it answers is this: “What do you do when faced with an implacable enemy bent on {choose one: “your total destruction?”, “killing you”, “beating you to a pulp”}.
The Bill of Rights of the Constitution of the United States did not create the rights of man; it simply enumerated and affirmed them.
@Paul: The 9th Amendment clarifies that the Bill of Rights is not to be limited to those enumerated. That is, the Bill of Rights is not intended to be an enumeration (limit) of our rights. I believe you understand that, but I think your statement above could have been worded better.
Got Jews. Got trailer trash. What about gypsies? What about slavs? You seem to be a couple of convenient scapegoats shy of a master race, buddy.
Orphaned comment is sad. And lacks context. I’m amused.
There is no compromise when the anti types don’t include any of an opposing view in the discussion ie: NJ bill heading to committee S2430.
The rights you choose to compromise on they would prefer WE never have.
As I read this article for the third time so I can understand and feel the thought and feelings of the writer I was reminded each time of a quote said, I think by President Reagan; I could be wrong on the person but it was a USA President. We the people of the United States of America will not negotiate with any terrorist.
As I think of the people here in the USA that are trying to alter our constitution with laws that have been proven in country after country to NOT work the way they thought; all I can think of them as terrorists. Now as I think back to the oath I made 3 times when I enlisted and reenlisted into the Navy I am reminded part of it. I will up hold and protect the constitution of the United States of America for enemies foreign and domestic. Now, I am left with the questions of what am I to do? I feel, as many others do, that our country is under attack from terrorists that are inside our boarders. How am I to act or react or what am I to do; apprehend them via civilian arrest and turn them over to the authorities; sadly many of the authorities are on their side and are likely to turn on me. However I have been discharged from the Navy and am considered a disabled vet so realistically I think I have been discharged from my oath even though deep down I still feel my oath as strongly today as I did back in the late 90’s.
On the other hand those people I would consider terrorists would or do consider me as a poor disabled vet who has had their mind torn apart by my experiences over sea’s while I was in service. So, because of that I am not to be trusted, not with guns, or even my own opinion. There for my idea/opinions don’t count because I take medication for depression and PTSD. I am a potential danger to everyone including myself. So I can’t even be trusted to choose my own TV show to drool to as I should be heavily medicated. Not only does this sadden me but it also makes me feel insulted.
These people who wish to limit access to arms for what ever reason it’s in truth because they have no bloody idea what is going on. They don’t know what is going on in their own town/state/country or the world, in most of the time they don’t even know what is going on in their own home, with their own family, with their own children. How are we to deal with people who go through life with the blinders of the media and corrupt politicians? Are these people the majority or just the loudest of the lemurs that wish to take away and control our lives. Their lives are not good enough for them to mess up they feel they have to mess up ours, mine?
I can understand for most this is an extremely exhausting but for those of us who have given our families, friends, limbs, and/or even our lives have an extra drain. Our sacrifices where for and in-favor of the everyone’s rights and these people or terrorist’s depending on how you wish to look at it are working to take away what little of our lives we have left. How do you pick your life back up and start over while these people terrorist and walk on our sacrifices and lives as if we are peasants or sub-human, we are treated worst then the family dog. LOL, and these same morons have the gall to wonder why military and former military have such a high suicide rate. I must apologize it has been a long day and I am tiered. I think I’ve already said to much.
I just hope this does not go toward blood shed because 3 wars are more then enough for one soldier or sailor to live through.
I just would like to be left alone.I haven’t ever thought of pulling an armed stickup or mowing down people I don’t even know.What does get me going is meddlers.They just can’t leave things be.They have to fix what isn’t broken.They have come out of the woodwork with seething hatred for gun owners.They may find out that it’s dumb to threaten people who are armed.
We should not only be resisting, even at this late date, but should be counter-attacking. I wish the NRA (at least) and some GOP Reps and Senators would propose:
1)Abolition of the 1968 GCA
2)Direct firearms shipments allowed to any licensed CCW in any state.
3)Handgun purchases allowed to the above across state lines.
4)Put all modern replica firearms under the BATF’s 50-year rule.
OK, we’ll “compromise” and accept that the licensed CCW holder will have to fill out a 4473 – small steps, small steps.
These proposals with give the antis apoplexy. They won’t be able to just sit around and wait for us to “give just a little”. If they can through stuff at the walls to see what sticks, we can too.
Maybe if they realize our side will ALWAYS come back with our own hair-raising (to them) proposals, instead of giving in, they might think twice the next time.
It’d be amusing to see a legislator systematically go through and file a bill to repeal basically every gun law on the books. Individually, I mean. Kinda like how some of them are filing bills that contain the individual components of DiFi’s AWB.
I’d love it if we were to establish a Delegislative branch of government whose entire job is to delete laws on the books that go against the Constitution.
“But that’s the Supreme Court’s job!” you say?
Well they suck these days and don’t really do anything unless you bring it to them, and only then if they feel like it.
I mean have a bunch of people whose jobs are to actively seek out Unconstitutional BS laws and just shred them from existence.
“OK, we’ll “compromise” and accept that the licensed CCW holder will have to fill out a 4473 – small steps, small steps.”
I’m in Arizona, and that’s how it is here, and, I understand, in several other states whom the Feds have recognized (in their generosity!) do a ‘good enough’ background check.
Done compromising. Well maybe if we drop 1000 already on the books first , then we can start the conversation. If not they can foad.
Done giving up rights . Want to compromise? Remove 1000 of the unconstitutional laws already written, then and only then we can start the conversation . They never give up anything.
You can’t fix stupid……even with duct tape!!
What about duct tape, bailing wire and WD40? You can fix anything with that combo.
‘Are guns more important than children?’
Judging by the 800,000 abortions committed every year, I’d say there’s a lot of things more important than children.
” It’s not paranoia if they really ARE after you”….well, guess what – ” they ” really ARE after Us !!!
Nothing much has changed since Dec. 2013 has it. Except there are now 21 States with some form of permitless carry, instead of just 3 prior to that date (Vermont, Alaska, Arizona, ). But in the same time frame (12/2013 to present) the shrieking and exploding heads on the left have risen exponentially, aided and abetted by Social Media and political agendas that seek to make firearms ownership and carry the root of all evil. While it appears on the surface that one side or the other is “winning”, I think it is much too early to call the game for either side.
It’s January 2013. Markel used to be everywhere. Where’d he go? I completely agree with his theme. If you back Dims you are the devil. If you back Rinos you suck. This was right after Newtown. Like a bad penny slow Joe is back. Choose you this day who you serve…
I’m pretty sure we gun owners have compromised enough.
Ok, I was off by 12 months.
While being uncompromising in support of the rights of gun owners, we need to be wary of becoming uncompromising on other issues. To win we need a big tent, not a small one that consistently expels people for not being in lockstep on every issue. Further, the “all in” for a single party is a poor long term move. Both parties need to see that there is strong support for the rights of gun owners within their ranks. Both parties need to see that supporting the rights of gun owners is a winning position.
We, as supporters of the rights of gun owners, need to have as big of a tent as possible. Within that tent, we may disagree on how to build the best vibrant and lasting economy, how to provide the best healthcare, how to best prepare the children for the future, or ao a myriad of other issues; however, within that tent, the only thing we need to agree on is securing the rights of gun owners. That is a big tent. Yes, it is a bit more chaotic than a small tent where all are in agreement on each and every point of interest, but that big tent will have more influence on the issue that it was erected to defend.
Firearms and there use only have 2 enemies Rust and Rulers/Politicians. The former only requires proper care and maintenance. While the latter oft times requires more drastic measures. As Our Founding Patriots discovered. What will “We the People” learn from these lessons? The answer may well determine the fate of Our Nation and the Freedoms passed down unto “We the People”. Along with the charge that they are Preserved and Protected from all who would wish them destroyed. Keep Your Powder Dry…
“If they consider themselves a reasonable, rational person then they expect all other people to act the same.”
These are the same people who sit on juries. “No reasonable person would own a gun, or shoot someone; there are alternatives.”
In most cases that is very true. You do not have the right to shoot someone because his dog pissed on your lawn or he cut you off in traffic as happens almost every day in Capitalvania where life is considered cheap.
Most shootings are not justifiable and the prisons are filled with people who either did not know the law or did not care because they were mental basket cases that never should have been allowed to purchase a deadly weapon. This is exactly why civilized nations thoroughly vet people by conducting interviews of applicants with the police, the persons work associates and or neighbors, run a criminal background check and examine any past mental issues the person may have had. Their success with these laws and our total failures because of a lack of such laws prove our system does not work period. If 38,000 plus deaths on average a year do not turn on the dim light bulb in ones head nothing will but when did the Far Right ever have any common sense? Most would never pass a mental test.
Where is “Capitalvania?” You cheapen your argument when you are clearly making stuff up.
It’s a merging of the terms capitalism and Transylvania.
He thinks he’s being clever, when in reality, those doing the fiscal sucking on the economy are Leftist scum like himself, with endless entitlement ‘programs’ like “free healthcare for illegal immigrants”.
Money doesn’t grow on trees, no matter how badly Leftists like him so desperately want it to be.
That piper has to be paid, eventually, as 1930s Germany found out when it took literal wheelbarrows of cash to buy a loaf of bread… 🙂
Quote: “Dan Zimmerman January 22, 2013 At 16:42
Did you not see our post on gun show NDs this weekend? Or our IGOTD posts? Or Nick’s report that Fox News’ poll shows a great deal of public support for universal background checks on all gun purchases? ”
Fox News is not a conservative company. They are owned by the Rupert Murdoch family trust. He blows with the wind, mostly leaning left. Fox News is to make money off conservatives while slipping in bias along the way.
I don’t believe their polls and cast an skeptical eye on their news.
This article is 8 years old and a lot has happened in all that time in the U.S. Paul Markel IS PART OF THE PROBLEM NOT THE SOUTION. Anyone with brain one knows that when sensational crimes are committed with guns by nut cases and or criminals there is a great hue and cry for draconian gun laws and bans. Markel should have been fired 30 years ago when he first started writing about guns and gun laws as he has learned zero about the subject as his ranting article certainly proves.
Survey after survey has shown that the majority of gun owners as well as the majority in Congress, Republicans included, realize that it is long past due that we strengthen gun laws to keep guns out of the hands of the nut cases and criminals if we plan on keeping the right to own guns at all in the U.S.
Universal Background Checks would only be an extension of the already existing Brady Bill that has for over 20 years denied 2.1 million purchases of firearms by people who should not have them but it does not cover second hand gun purchases between individuals in most states.
Neither do we have safe storage laws which allow easy smash and grab thefts of guns not only from private dwellings but from gun stores as well.
On average 1,300 children lose their lives every year because of lazy, indolent and shiftless parents who leave loaded guns lying around the house. Again a second good case for safe storage laws.
All other civilized nations also require a mental test before a deadly weapon can be purchased. The success of mental tests to get a gun owners i.d. card is well documented. You do not see the mass murder by firearms or road rage assassination’s in countries like Japan that heavily vet the purchase of rifles and shotguns which is again iron clad proof of the need for the U.S. to adopt similar vetting processes.
Even if the U.S. only extends the Brady Bill to cover the purchases of second hand guns it would dramatically reduce the sea of deadly weapons on the wide open market that let people traffic in weapons in the U.S.
Lets be honest here only a delusional paranoid nut case or a complete Moron would not understand that currently any nut case can buy a second hand gun if he fails to buy one because of the Brady Bill denying him a new gun purchase
As I have said many times before the Far Right are always their own worse enemies when it comes to trying to preserve their right to own a gun.
I’ve been saying this for years now that being logical and calm, being politically correct with those numb-nut anti-gun f–s does NOTHING!! Treat them like shit. Tell them they are idiots. I’m not wasting a nano-second of my time with those people other than to treat them like shit. It’s the same thing as arguing religion with a bible-thumper. You’re wasting your time.
It’s HILARIOUS arguing with 8&a half year old comments…I think I came to TTAG not long after Sandy Hook/Newtown. That was the catalyst for hardening up my resolve about 2A rights. F##k the gungrabbing Dims & Rinos!
Recognizing a problem only occurs when one listens. Of course, to listen and understand or otherwise comprehend the truth and facts, one needs an open mind and accept logic. As you pointed out, an incident was a catalyst to harden your resolve. It was that point that you opened your mind to facts and truth which cemented your resolve. That is the difficulty we all face as it’s pointless to argue with the antis because they deny logic, truth and facts. Our collective efforts should be focused on embracing, educating and enveloping those on the sidelines of the gun issue. We can’t let the fictitious lies of the anti-gunners saturate the uniformed because make no mistake, THAT is their agenda.
Ran into “the enemy” a few weeks ago. She was a customer in the convenience store when I arrived, there are several others inside the store.
I usually conceal carry, but sometimes I switch up and open carry especially in the summer. We can open or conceal carry here, no permit needed although I do have a permit for reciprocity reasons when I cross the state line.
I just happen to be going by the range. Not to shoot but to drop off some ammo for a friend and was going to meet him there as it was on the way to someplace else I was going. I stopped for coffee at the store. I’ve been there a lot of times over the years and they know me.
Its near the range and a lot of people on their way to the range stop there for gas, snacks, drinks, etc… so they see a lot of guns come through and don’t mind it at all. They have even said they like us coming in because they say all the guns around makes things safer. There are frequently convenience store robberies in the area in this section of town and all have been hit at some time or another but this one never has been robbed probably because its got a lot of cops coming in for stuff at all hours and gun owners going to the range coming in and a few of the employees go armed.
But anyway, this lady sees I’m armed and she goes into this rant about the evils of guns and starts yelling I have a gun and screaming at me and demands I leave and starts yelling about how much she is in fear of being shot by me. She is telling other customers I am armed and might shoot them and tells them they are in danger. She demands that the clerk behind the counter make me leave. She calls 911 to report a man with a gun. People are just giving “big deal” and “that’s a crazy lady” looks. People are getting their stuff like they normally would, and ignoring her.
I don’t say a word, and walk over to get my coffee, pay for it, and stand there leaning on the coffee bar drinking it and looking at her. The clerk calmly and politely asks her to leave but she doesn’t hear him because she is screaming and ranting so much. The clerk calls the cops and explains whats going on.
The more I look at her the more red faced she becomes and the more she rants and screams. Shes preaching the evils of guns and swinging her arms around and ranting and screaming, her freak out is hitting high gear. Shes all red faced and furious that the clerk will not tell me to leave. One lady customer tells her “Lady, calm down. Nothing bad is happening to you or anyone else here. If you think you are in danger then run away, no one is stopping you.”
The cops arrive, two patrols , four cops. One of them asks the clerk if everything is ok and he says “yep except her”. Cops ask her to step outside so they can talk to her and she does. One of them asks me and the clerk and another customer what happened and we tell him.
This whole thing is like an episode of “The Twilight Zone” only funny. The clerk and I and a few other customers are laughing at it now.
We can hear her outside yelling and screaming at the cops to “do something, its dangerous. He might shoot me.” then another rant about the evils of guns and she is about to explode with anger. The cops are trying to calm her down, being very respectful, shes not having it and wants her way. Then it happens, we can see the lady through the door, she screams at one of the cops “don’t try to fu*king patronize me! Do something about him now!”, she has discovered a new gear to shift her rage into and she reaches out and slaps at one of the cops but does not make contact.
I tell the cops I gotta be someplace but give them my phone number and address if they need anything else from me. I say good by to the clerk and head out the door and get into the car. As I am leaving I can see she is still struggling pretty hard and screaming when they stuffed her into the patrol car.
That was a textbook “Wild Karen”… 😉
That was beyond a Karen, through the Sharon, to the full-on Michelle.
She wanted her way and was going to do everything to try and get it. You have to feel sorry for her immediate family and neighbors. Glad I don’t have a Karen like her next door to me.
PS: Actually I have a lady named Karen on both sides. Go figure, both next door neighbors on both sides of me are named Karen.
Jack.
All yah had to say was, “Your right hold my gunm while I get my coffee.”
THAT’S WHY IT’S IMPORTANT T DEFEND OUR , USA , AMERICAN , CONSTITUTION .
OUR 2A , IS IN IT . THAT’S WHAT IS SOOO WRONG WITH THE SENATE .
OATH TO PROTECT , PRESERVE , IT . CAN’T HAVE PEOPLE , tRUMP AND HIS FOLLOWERS , RIOT , THE CAPITAL TO STOP EV . IS LIKE TRYING TO STOP THE 2A RIGHTS OUR FORE FATHERS GAVE US . WANT JUSTICE FOR OUR 2A , THEN ALSO JUSTICE FOR THOSE PEOPLE THAT TRY TO OVER THROUGH OUR ELECTION RIGHTS TO COUNTING EV . tRUMP EV OK IN 2016 , THEN EV NOT OK IN 2020 . TRAITORS . IF YOU LOVE THE 2A , DEFEND OUR FREEDOM ALL OF IT , ALL THE WAY , USA . AMERICA FIRST . , STAND WITH AND FOR OUR CONSTITUTION . T=TRATIOR tRUMP . DUMP tRUMP . IF TRASH THE EV COUNT , THEN COULD TRASH OUR 2A , UNDERSTAND THAT . WHAT TO TRASH SOMETHING TRASH tRUMP .
GOD BLESS CHENEY AND KINZINGER , STANDING UP FOR TRUTH .
The author of this article exposed his anti-gun ownership bias when he used the term lawful gun owner. Once you concede that the government has the authority to determine who can and cannot have weapons you might as well turn in your own weapons. It’s either an absolute right that the government cannot interfere with or you’re agreeing that the government gets to decide who has guns or not.
“It’s either an absolute right that the government cannot interfere with or you’re agreeing that the government gets to decide who has guns or not.”
Keep in mind that “absolute” has an absolute meaning/definition. Even a breath of restriction (like, “due process”) negates the condition and theory of “absolute”. Even a breath of restriction amounts to, “I support the Second Amendment, but…..common sense laws that keep guns out of the hands of people who….”
“To ignore the danger of aggression is simply to invite it.”…Gen Omar Bradley.
Play by the enemies’ rules; lose by the enemies’ rules. If one cannot define/name/describe the enemy, one cannot defeat the enemy.
They continue to attack America from within because they have never suffered serious consequences for doing so. They don’t believe we are serious about our rights/freedom/liberty.
“Our civil rights are not contingent upon other people’s behavior”.
“A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government” – George Washington
“Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice.” – Barry Goldwater
“Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry.” Tommy Jefferson
“Fear”! “Fear” is our enemies prefered weapon, they employ “fear tactics” in order influence others and enact their policies thus we MUST use “fear” to advance OUR cause and protect and expand OUR rights.
There is no more powerful motivator than “fear” thus when posting online (sadly many major “news” sites eliminated comment sections) ALWAYS link to articles on violent crimes that contain photos of the perp. As a rule opt for the most heinous crimes ie. child rapers, child killers, rapists, murderers, home invaders, look for the most menacing and ugly offenders, the tattooed face ones, the “urban” thugs, the prototypical dopers etc.
Remind everyone they too can and of course WILL become a victim if “unarmed” unable to defend themselves and their loved ones. “Guilt” them, remember to drive home the point they will be witnesses and complicit in the rape and murder of their loved ones. Constantly informing them they will be beaten bloody and likeky watching as a violent criminal ruts atop their young daughter or pretty wife will be a powerful motivator.
“Fear” sells it’s why Democrats and their Fake News allies rely on it, so must we.
You can be both logical and reasonable and still not compromise. You don’t have to wear labels. You just have to be smart.
Let us stop being “Politically Correct and call a spade a spade. BLM and Antifa are terrorist period. Billions of dollars of damage across the US. Torched Police Cars, beating, killings, innocent Business’s totally destroyed, looted. Our monuments destroyed, our Flag crapped on, spit on, burned. Disrupted for our Flag, defunding our Police, military, our Court Systems threatened and on and on.
What we do if another Terror Group like Al Qaeda came to America and did the same thing?
We would destroy them!
The difference then and now, when kings passed laws against peasants swords the peasants didnt depend on electricity .
Amen!!
Well said! Glad to see Paul Markel in print again!
@Gman
“Hopefully. /sarc”
Glad you caught onto the theme of the comment.
Re the ANTI GUN NUTS, they must be fought whenever and wherever they rear their ugly faces. This is a NO QUARTER FIGHT.
2A will always be defended, with every weapon available!
Aside from what I would call “common decency”, there has been only one thread that has guided my “political” thjinking/life in the 70+ years Ive been on this planet… and that is the right to own and carry weapons for the defense of myself and those around me. The awareness of arms and the use of them goes back as far as I can remember- taught perhaps by the actions of those who raised me- family and friends… but Ive always gravitated to guns especially,(not to mention bladed implements) and from an early age seems like Ive thought about the weapon potential of a lot of the things in my environment. Not a violent person, just a bit wary and willing to defend my person… apropos of nothing in particular, just sayin…
If this current organized crime admin takes the mid term elections, Uncle Joe will come for your firearms with F16’s and tactical nukes before the next two years are out. (maybe not as far fetched as that might sound.)