The ATF’s Honey Badger Action is a Rogue Political Hit Aimed at Gun Owners and Timed for the Election

Q honey badger pistol

Jeremy S. for TTAG

 

By Josh Brooks

We had the opportunity to sit down with Alex Bosco, founder of SB Tactical, and talk to him about the ATF’s recent decision to send a cease and desist letter to Q, LLC, maker of the Honey Badger pistol platform. For those out of the loop, SB Tactical is the creator of the original pistol stabilizing brace system. For years now, SB Tactical has been trying to get the ATF to come to the table with a set of publicly available standards that will allow the firearms industry to produce orthotic devices and braces.

Throughout our discussion with Bosco, it became abundantly clear the ATF has no intention of doing so. Instead, the ATF opts toward a system that says “We’ll know it when we see it” as to an item’s legality under the National Firearms Act. This kiss the ring style of law enforcement currently requires manufacturers of items such as pistol braces to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars investing in research and development of new products.

Once complete, the companies then have to send their product to the ATF on a completed platform. The ATF then may or may not eventually get back to the manufacturer telling them if their product meets the currently unstated standards of being a pistol stabilizing brace.

Before we dive too much more into this topic, however, we need to discuss the current events that are unfolding in the industry.

Quick Recap on ATF’s Cease and Desist Letter to Q, LLC

On August 3, 2020, the Boston Field Division of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives sent a cease and desist letter to Q, LLC. In this letter, the ATF stated that Q was responsible for producing an NFA-regulated SBR — the Honey Badger — that they were marketing as a pistol. They based the determination on the length of the Honey Badger’s barrel being less than 16.″ You can read the full text of that cease and desist letter at this link.

On September 2, 2020, Q, LLC replied to the ATF with this letter. In it, Q states they disagree with the ATF’s judgement based on the fact that the ATF has refused to offer any publicly available standards that would allow them to make the firearm “compliant” with already non-publicly stated standards. They wrote,

“The agency’s approach leaves [Q] (as well as other regulated parties, and [potentially] reviewing courts) guessing.”

Here’s another great recap of the situation from The Gun Collective for those of you who prefer to view things in video format.

Q’s Letter To Customers Concerning the Recent ATF Decision

Dear Customer:

On August 3rd, 2020, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (“ATF”) issued Q® a formal Cease & Desist letter, notifying us that ATF has taken the position that the Q Honey Badger Pistol is a short-barreled rifle (“SBR”) regulated under the National Firearms Act (“NFA”). In response, Q has ceased all production of the Honey Badger Pistol, and submitted a comprehensive letter to ATF and the Department of Justice (“DOJ”) stating why we disagree with this classification[1]. Additionally, we have provided recommendations on how to address the firearms already in circulation. Q is seeking solutions that best protect you, the individual, and Q’s distribution network from falling out of compliance with ATF regulations, and federal law. At this time, Q has not received any definitive guidance from the ATF.

In the meantime, Q encourages possessors of the Honey Badger Pistol to take these proactive measures until a resolution is reached between Q and ATF.

1. Complete one of the following:
1. Remove the barreled upper receiver from the lower receiver and dedicate it as a replacement for another AR-style pistol or registered short-barreled rifle; or

2. If you do not possess another AR-style pistol or registered short-barreled rifle, remove the barreled upper receiver from the lower receiver and temporarily transfer it out of your possession by, for example, transferring it to the dominion and control of another individual; and

2.Once the previous step is completed, you may file an ATF Form 1 to register the lower receiver as a short-barreled rifle. Upon Form 1 approval, the firearm may be reassembled.

Failure to complete option a or option b could result in prosecution and is subject to a $10,000.00 fine and up to 10 years imprisonment.

If you are concerned with this situation – as Q is – we urge you to contact the Department of Justice (ATF’s parent agency) by using the below OneClickPolitics link.

ONECLICK LINK

Additionally, we encourage you to reach out to the White House and ask President Trump to halt and rollback ATF’s efforts to issue arbitrary and capricious decisions affecting millions of legal gun owners.

Alex Bosco, Founder of SB Tactical Speaks Out

Today we had the opportunity to sit down with the founder of SB Tactical, Alex Bosco. Bosco has been at the forefront of this fight since his company’s inception back in 2012. One of the first real attacks against his business was in 2015, when the ATF arbitrarily decided that shouldering a brace meant that the end-user was modifying the pistol into a short barreled rifle.

Q honey badger sb tactical

Q Honey Badger pistol with SB Tactical stabilizing brace (Jeremy S. for TTAG)

After several years of debate over the course of multiple meetings, Bosco was able to get this arbitrary ruling overturned, and walk the ATF back to some semblance of sanity.

This however, is not a new problem. The ATF, a government agency that has more than earned its fair share of black eyes throughout the years, continues to stand on the throat of law abiding citizens by not releasing clear-cut standards for what is and what isn’t a pistol brace.

According to Bosco, by not releasing what the standards are, the ATF is depriving his company and companies like his the ability to comply with the law and remain in compliance. On top of this, they are also depriving the average American the ability to comply with the law, since no clear cut standards currently exist.

“We’ll know it when we see it.”

This is the ATF’s current publicly released standard for legality when it comes to a particular pistol brace. Keep in mind, the Honey Badger platform is not new. When originally released to the public, it was the understanding of both Q, LLC, and their customers, that the Honey Badger pistol was fully compliant with all known firearm laws at the time.

This “We’ll know it when we see it” non-standard is a fluid concept amongst individual ATF agents at best, and something that can be weaponized against the industry at a moment’s notice.

At the conclusion of our conversation with with Bosco, we asked him for a statement that we could officially publish. We asked him how he felt about the situation, and what he thinks is actually happening. This was his response:

I harbor a lot of frustration towards the ATF. We’ve worked very closely with them for years in an attempt to come up with standards that would allow the industry to understand what is and is not a brace. The only conclusion that I can come up with at this point in time is that the ATF does not want there to be a standard.

Instead, they want the flexibility to change that standard on a whim to fit their own political agenda. Right now, I believe the agenda of the ATF comes from a motivated political faction of attorneys inside of the organization who are attempting to frustrate the ability of the current POTUS to be re-elected.

With this, they’re able to make POTUS look bad, and attempt to alienate his base of 2A supporters, and I believe it is their hope that they can keep those people from voting enthusiastically with this decision. The only way to address this issue is for the White House or the Department of Justice to intervene.

Muddy Waters and a Government Agency with Several Black Eyes

The ATF is responsible for the massacres at both Waco and Ruby Ridge. Most recently, they’re responsible for the Fast and the Furious fiasco which saw 2,000 firearms illegally sold to Mexican drug cartel members in one of the largest scandals of the Obama Administration. For the full story from an informant for the ATF, read Operation Wide Receiver: An Informant’s Struggle to Expose the Corruption and Deceit That Led to Operation Fast and Furious.

These black eyes are not something we are willing to unsee or forget, and they will always tarnish the reputation of the ATF.

nra atf honey badger

Courtesy NRA-ILA

Today, what we’re seeing is a government agency that is standing on the necks of law abiding citizens, and they’re actively denying them the ability to comply with the law. We too believe that this comes from a position of partisanship inside of the organization.

If you would like to make your voice heard on this topic, we urge you to head to the NRA’s webpage by clicking this link. Once there, fill out the form and urge the Department of Justice to Rein in ATF’s Arbitrary Determination on the “Honey Badger” Pistol.

 

This article originally appeared at full30.com and is reprinted here with permission.

comments

  1. avatar GS650G says:

    So if you take off the brace is it kosher?

    1. avatar 300BlackoutFan says:

      The best answer is “it depends”.
      Since it is likely that the 4473 was marked “Pistol”, one could argue that it’s still a pistol, even with the newfound “finding” that it’s an unregistered SBR.

      If, however, as the ATF now feels, it’s an SBR, removing the stock cannot turn it into a pistol – once a rifle, forever a rifle.
      And “they” say getting a book from the library is harder…

      1. avatar Dude says:

        You practically have to be a legal expert to navigate the ever evolving list of rules, and even then, it just depends. I have to occasionally deal with government bureaucrats, and sometimes you get a different answer to the same question depending on who you ask.

      2. avatar I Haz A Question says:

        4473 marked as “pistol”.

        Believe me, there are many of us who assembled our own from 80% receivers and PSA build kits. So no 4473s involved. Ideally, the onus (constitutionally) falls on the government to prove their case when pressing charges, and therefore prove that a home-assembled gun was built as a rifle vs. a pistol, but who knows nowadays.

        The ATF just needs to go, or at least be reduced to the “A” and “T” only. They clearly aren’t performing as a reliable department.

        1. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

          Constitutionally those letters are the only two that they can oversee, however that said the agency is not Constitutionally authorized in the first place and is extra Constitutional.

        2. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

          “Ideally, the onus (constitutionally) falls on the government to prove their case when pressing charges, and therefore prove that a home-assembled gun was built as a rifle vs. a pistol,…”

          Imagine it’s January 21, 2021, and a Democrat president selects a Democrat Attorney General, who decides it’s time the ATF “gets with the Leftist program”.

          That’s a very real possibility, people. I’m voting for Trump, but if in a month’s time we get the bad news, we best start planning for a very unpleasant next 4 years…

    2. avatar frank speak says:

      “we know it when we see it”…kind of like what they used to say about pornography….

      1. avatar Southern Cross says:

        F-Troop will say they need the flexibility to close loopholes in any proposed legislation. More likely it allows them to bend with the political wind.

        F-Troop have already shown they have a political bias. Note under which governments most of their “excessive actions” occurred.

        1. avatar firefighter says:

          Infringement has been slowly eating away at amendment no. 2 for over 40 years now. A lot of it began with the Federal Firearms Safety Act issued under Lyndon Johnson’s administration who also stole our money out of its savings and gave it to the General fund. Now our Social Security money is a joke. what should have been an easy 3 to 4K per month has been knocked down to a measly 12 to 15 hundred per month. So many bad things happen when democrats get in the White House.

      2. avatar William Burke says:

        Bingo.

    1. avatar Jerms says:

      Those petitions are a complete joke. All you ever get is some canned response from “the white house”

      1. avatar Ken Yarrow says:

        It’s about growing support and spreading public initiative towards normalizing the ideals of liberty and true Constitutionality.

        Expecting a positive action by the White House is the last thing anyone expects here. But we can still make some folks on the Potomac stop and think, “Hey, wow, this really got a lot of support…”

      2. avatar Matthew the Oilman says:

        It’s worth it to get a building to email. I want to be there when it talks 😂.

    2. avatar ChoseDeath says:

      I just sent that to everyone pertinent in my phone and slammed it onto a ton of YouTube channels. But we’re gonna need some legal muscle, and that’s probably where we’re fucked. But, I am really hoping with the massive buying frenzy that now is the time we can maybe get something done.

    3. avatar frank speak says:

      pointless…but why not?….

  2. avatar MB (the real MB) says:

    So what if the HB was made to skirt around the NFA, the NFA is illegal anyway. A illegal law is not a law. The 2A is the only right we need government permission to use. Why? Think about speaking or posting online, if you are not yelling “Fire” in a crowded theater, you are not endangering anyone. Buying, owning and carrying a firearm is the same, if you are just carrying it, and not shooting it at someone, you are not a danger to anyone except a tyrannical government. The ATF and their regs are a fact of life, but those regs need to make sense, and the SBR/Pistol brace/Pistol forgrip/SBS nonsense has got to end. They got us for fully auto weapons, they need to let us have any semi-auto configuration we want. It’s called compromise.

    1. avatar 300BlackoutFan says:

      Note – yelling “Fire” in a crowded theater (or anywhere) is not illegal.

      If there is no fire, and a panic ensues where persons are injured, then lawfully, you are held accountable for your action of yelling “Fire”.

      Rights – 2A and 1A alike – have a personal responsibility aspect that many people have forgotten about.

      1. avatar Dreghorn says:

        Amen!

      2. avatar Ragnar says:

        What if you yell “fire” in an empty theater?

        What if you yell “fire” in a crowded theater; but you are a performer on stage and it is just a word in your script?

        Yelling “fire” is about context. Much like carrying a rifle in public versus shooting random people in public. One is benign (legal) and the other is wrong (illegal).

        1. avatar Broke_It says:

          Ah, but what if I yell “movie!” in a crowded fire station?

    2. avatar Juanito Ibañez says:

      @MB (the real MB) wrote: “A illegal law is not a law.”

      No law is automatically ‘Constitutional’

      The general misconception is that any statute passed by legislators bearing the appearance of law constitutes the law of the land. The Constitution of the United States is the supreme law of the land, and any statue, to be valid, must be in agreement. It is impossible for both the Constitution and a law violating it to be valid; one must prevail. This is succinctly stated as follows:

      The general rule is that an unconstitutional statute, though having the form and name of law, is in reality no law, but is wholly void, and ineffective for any purpose; since unconstitutionality dates from the time of its enactment, and not merely from the date of the decision so branding it.

      An unconstitutional law, in legal contemplation, is as inoperative as if it had never been passed. Such a statute leaves the question that it purports to settle just as it would be had the statute not been enacted.

      Since an unconstitutional law is void, the general principals follow that it imposes no duties, confers no rights, creates no office, bestows no power or authority on anyone, affords no protection, and justifies no acts performed under it . . .

      A void act cannot be legally consistent with a valid one.

      An unconstitutional law cannot operate to supersede any existing valid law.

      Indeed, insofar as a statute runs counter to the fundamental law of the land, it is superseded thereby.

      No one is bound to obey an unconstitutional law and no courts are bound to enforce it.

      — American Jurisprudence, Second Edition, Section 177. (late 2nd Ed. Section 256)

      “An unconstitutional act is not law; it confers no rights; it imposes no duties; affords no protection; it creates no office; it is in legal contemplation, as inoperative as though it had never been passed.”
      –‘Norton v. Shelby County’, 118 U.S. 425 (1886)

      And:

      “All laws which are repugnant to the Constitution are null and void.”
      –‘Marbury v. Madison’, 5 U.S. 137 (1803)

  3. avatar ChoseDeath says:

    God I hate the ATF so much… I despise all bureaucracy, even though I know some of it is necessary, but these fucking people just really seem to enjoy arbitrary castigations and rule changes. It’s like every communiqué they send is signed “COMPLY OR ELSE, The ATF.” 🖕🖕

    1. avatar Mad Max says:

      You should try dealing with the EPA!

      Auer and Chevron have got to go (along with most of the Administrative State).

      This type of authoritarian bureaucracy is why the Soviet Union finally collapsed.

      It can happen here.

    2. avatar frank speak says:

      ATF is a redundant agency whose functions could easily be performed by other agencies…as a result they are always anxious about funding…and eager to do something..[anything?]…to justify their existence….

      1. avatar Miner49er says:

        So I take it you don’t work for the ATF…

        1. avatar ChoseDeath says:

          You should you Marxist slug.

        2. avatar James Campbell says:

          That’s an insult to slugs.

        3. avatar Miner49er er All Hail! says:

          And you can rest assured that the inestimable James Campbell knows his slugs!

        4. avatar ChoseDeath says:

          That’s a good point James, I really shouldn’t insult slugs that way.

        5. avatar James Campbell says:

          Damn right I know slugs.
          Been calling them out on TTAG for OVER a year now, and ALL under my ONE username (ACTUAL name no less).
          Only spineless slugs post with a new username each day. Whiner and the trollfarm all fall into the sub-slug category, take it from someone who knows slugs.
          Dance sub-slug trolls, I command you.
          Edit; Did I mention Trump/Pence 2020! 🤣

        6. avatar Southern Cross says:

          And you wish you did.

      2. avatar Southern Cross says:

        It is worth noting there was a proposal to split the BATF functions among other agencies including the FBI and Secret Service.

        But BATF agents are held in such low regard none of the other agencies wanted to take BATF agents. Only TSA has lower standing than BATF.

        1. avatar ChoseDeath says:

          No kidding? That’s hilarious!

  4. avatar Debbie W. says:

    This is more nonsense along the lines of wearing a firearm open legally and put a coat on and it becomes illegal.

    The cease and desist letter on Aug. 3 came from “Boston” and that could be part of the problem. Here’s the ATF sitting all high and mighty with machine guns of all sorts of shapes and sizes and here’s a lowly business making a pistol that God forbid has a handy dandy sliding stock.

    That is what is to be expected from such insanity as the Gun Control Act. Gun Control is rooted in racism and genocide and that makes it a racist and nazi based agenda. Before any statues are torn down or moved Gun Control needs to be incinerated. Bottom line…Gun Control is the N-Word for The Second Amendment.

    1. avatar Miner49er says:

      “The cease and desist letter on Aug. 3 came from “Boston” and that could be part of the problem.”

      So the letter came on August 3, how can that be in October surprise to influence the election if it arrived 3 months before the election?

      But you actually identified the problem, it is a “pistol with a handy dandy sliding stock.“

      Long-standing federal law says no pistols with stocks, it could not be clearer yet many have difficulty understanding this simple language.

      And the manufacture publicly posting videos of company personnel firing the weapon from the shoulder position clearly demonstrate that the weapon was designed by the manufacture to be fired from the shoulder, ergo an SBR.

      1. avatar WARFAB says:

        You quote government infringements on 2A rights as if they are logical or make sense. The NFA only stands because nobody representing Miller argued otherwise before the Supreme Court. There is no logic behind it other than the government will do its best to regulate whatever it can whenever it can.

        Cans themselves are a whole different matter.

        1. avatar Juanito Ibañez says:

          @WARFAB wrote: “The NFA only stands because nobody representing Miller argued otherwise before the Supreme Court.”

          And that’s the very reason that, under the 1884 Supreme Court decision in ‘Hopt v. People of the Territory of Utah’ – 4 S.Ct. 202, 28 L.Ed. 262 (1884), the Supreme Court hearing in ‘U.S. v. Miller and Layton’, 307 U.S., 174, 26 F.Supp. 1002 (1939) was an unconstitutional violation of ‘audi alteram partem’ [Latin, ‘hear the other side’].

  5. avatar FedUp says:

    If ATF did it for an October surprise, they wouldn’t have sent the letter in August.

    Rumor has it the problem arose with Q selling a nearly identical SBR, and ATF couldn’t stomach ‘this one’s an SBR because you want to register it, and that one’s not an SBR because you don’t want to register it’. (I have no idea if that’s the case, it’s just something I heard)

    1. avatar Red in CO says:

      That’s actually the best explanation I’ve heard yet, and one that is also quite believable given the track record of the ATF. “Fvck you for demonstrating just how stupid our rules are!”

  6. avatar C.S. says:

    This has been going on a for a while… Leftists embedded within the Federal government bureaucracy creating subterfuge. We’ve seen it with the targeting of Conservative organizations by the IRS, the unreasonable persecution of Conservative voices like Dinesh D’Souza, activist judges blocking federal enforcement of laws, the Russian collusion hoax and fake investigations, the “gold standard” of Remdesivir and the fake dangerousness of HCQ (despite the fact that entire countries like Turkey and India use it)… I could go on.

    If you think it’s bad now… wait till Biden gets elected. This has all the feelings of the French Revolution, and the heads have already start rolling.

  7. avatar Miner49er says:

    “I believe the agenda of the ATF comes from a motivated political faction of attorneys inside of the organization who are attempting to frustrate the ability of the current POTUS to be re-elected.”

    You people are delusional.

    The acting head of the ATF was appointed by Trump, she could stop this move immediately.
    Trump himself, as chief executive, could stop this move immediately.

    But they haven’t.

    So this scrutiny of the honey badger is an election day stunt by a secret group of lawyers within the ATF?

    What is your excuse for the bump stock ban, no election then, but trumps administration still banned bump stocks and made millions of American citizens federal felons, what’s your excuse for that?

    Just like the frog, you’re sitting in the pot as Trump turns up the heat with real gun control measures by executive order.

    But that’s OK, he got that wall built in Mexico paid for it, right?

    He had that infrastructure week and now we have $1 trillion investment in Americas roads, bridges, airports and schools, right?

    He repealed Obamacare on the first day and immediately replaced it with healthcare that covers more people with better coverage at a lower price and protects pre-existing conditions, right?

    Remember when he sent the investigative team to Hawaii to get to the bottom of Barack Hussein Obama’s birth certificate?
    They must’ve been on the S. S. Minnow because they’ve been lost at sea for five years.

    Y’all have been snookered by an NYC ConMan, how embarrassing for you.

    1. avatar JC DERP SQUAD says:

      Yo man watch out. James Campbell is back and he’s fixing’ to Dox you.

      Hope all is well is WV!!

      1. avatar James Campbell says:

        Trump/Pence 2020 FTW!
        No doc necessary.

      2. avatar Miner49er says:

        Thanks for asking, it is a beautiful day in the mountain state!

        Fall is the best time, just went kayaking last week over at the lake to check out the foliage and wildlife, saw three blue herons and lots of turkey.

        I hope your autumn is going good for you as well!

        1. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

          “…saw three blue herons and lots of turkey.”

          You looked in a mirror and saw yourself?

          *snicker*… 😉

    2. avatar 300BlackoutFan says:

      Trump has his faults – no argument. He also has appointed 2 Supreme Court Justices, and a 3rd Pending. He also has filled twice as many Federal Judge Appointments as his predecessor, in less than half the time. Additionally, he has *slowed* the pendulum swinging left towards Socialism, and I would argue, has done more for the economy, even WITH COVID-19, than any President in the past 40 years (at least).

      Now do Biden.
      Announced “He would take your AR-(14), and declare it an NFA item”
      Announced that he *WILL* raise taxes (and if you believe it’s just on the Rich… he’s got a bridge to sell you)
      Announced that he has experience with “Cockroaches” who love to feel his leg hair.
      Actually has ties with China….

      In short, Biden has demonstrated he is *at least* as racist as Trump, *at least* as misogynistic as Trump, and *at least* as Anti-2A (and other freedoms) as Trump.

      The Democrat plan is largely: “Give the Government more money, so that it can implement Socialists Policies within America, because This Time, It Will Be Different”. Socialism is great, until you run out of other people’s money.

      The Republicans are not allies to The Republic. I would argue the Democrats are FAR WORSE.

      1. avatar Miner49er says:

        “Actually has ties with China…. “

        Are you speaking of Mitch McConnell, who literally sleeps with a Chinese agent of a multi billion dollar shipping industry with solid connections to the Central committee of the Chinese communist party?

        And I find it fascinating that his wife, Elaine Chao, held cabinet positions under both George W. Bush and Donald Trump, now there’s you some international money laundering horsepower.

        1. avatar 300BlackoutFan says:

          Quit deflecting. You know full well about Biden’s ties to China that occurred while he was Vice President.

          I’ve already stated the Republicans are no friends of the Republic. Are you willing to do the same for the Democrats and admit that they are Anti-American? Since you’re from WV, I guess you’re a Byrd lover, you know, Democrat, 50 year Senator, and NOTED KKK Recruiter…. Of course, Biden was also endorsed by a KKK leader. But, go ahead and deflect with “but Orange Man Bad” and “Mitch is Mean”.

        2. avatar Miner49er says:

          Yep, Robert Byrd was a member of the KKK in the early 1940s, and he later renounced his membership.

          “In the early 1940s, Byrd recruited 150 people in West Virginia to form a chapter of the KKK. Joel L. Baskin, the grand dragon of the mid-Atlantic region, arrived to organize the chapter. Baskin was impressed with Byrd’s skills and encouraged him to get involved in politics. Byrd was unanimously named “exalted cyclops”, which meant that Byrd was the top officer in the local klan. The responsibilities for this role included leading meetings and initiating incoming members”

          That was decades in the past, and Robert Byrd changed his position as he became older and wiser. That’s something you should consider as an item of personal growth as well.

          Your chosen one, Donald Trump, spent most of his life as a pro abortion, anti-gun, Democrat, only changing in the past few years when he became a politician.

        3. avatar 300BlackoutFan says:

          And yet, Biden, your chosen one, was endorsed by the CURRENT KKK.

          Older and wiser? You want higher taxes, larger government, removal of freedoms, mass immigration. Doesn’t sound very wise. Difference between us: I acknowledge both sides suck, and there is no viable third option. You feel that the D’s are The Nation’s Savior. I’ve seen this movie played out in other countries (Venezuela, Cuba, etc). No thank you.

        4. avatar James Campbell says:

          Don’t bother digging for logic and/or non-biased/critical thinking in the whiner49er mine.
          There’s none there. Never was, NEVER will be.
          Just a leftard shill (and his trollfarm, that runs cover for him) talking his socialist BS on a firearm forum. A deep mine of copy/paste demtard spew, 24/7.
          Keep it up and you may reach slug status whiner49er.
          Trump/Pence 2020 FTW!

        5. avatar Miner49er says:

          3PO, here’s what I am thinking of:

          “President Clinton oversaw a very robust economy during his tenure. The U.S. had strong economic growth (around 4% annually) and record job creation (22.7 million). He raised taxes on higher income taxpayers early in his first term and cut defense spending and welfare, which contributed to a rise in revenue and decline in spending relative to the size of the economy. These factors helped bring the United States federal budget into surplus from the fiscal year 1998 to 2001, the only surplus years after 1969. Debt held by the public, a primary measure of the national debt, fell relative to GDP throughout his two terms, from 47.8% in 1993 to 31.4% in 2001.”

          Of course, Republican George W. Bush blew it all up in just a few short years.

          Just like Republican Donald Trump has crashed the groove of the economic recovery Barack Hussein Obama started in 2009.

          But go ahead, rattle on about Marxists and anarchy, as Donald Trump runs up the federal deficit into record territory..

      2. avatar Southern Cross says:

        Does anyone remember the west coast former naval base that during the tendering process for the sale Bill Clinton personally intervened and ordered the base to be sold to a Chinese consortium? The port was designated an open port with no inspections or ICE involvement.

        1. avatar Miner49er says:

          You so funny! Yet so clueless…

          “Port Shifts Focus After Cosco Deal for Base Unravels

          BY DAN WEIKEL
          SEP. 19, 199812 AM
          Facebook
          Twitter
          LinkedIn
          Email
          Although Congress has killed a deal to lease the abandoned Long Beach Naval Station to a Chinese shipping company, the Port of Long Beach vowed Friday to find new tenants for the controversial base and to make other accommodations to keep the China Ocean Shipping Co. from leaving the harbor.

          John W. Hancock, president of the Board of Harbor Commissioners, said the port will begin talks as soon as possible with three or four major shipping lines that are interested in acquiring more terminal space. The companies, which Hancock declined to identify, already hold leases in the Port of Long Beach.
          Port officials said they would try to find a new site for China Ocean Shipping if other shipping lines in the harbor move onto naval station grounds. Cosco, which is one of the largest shipping lines in the world, has operated in the port since 1981.”

          You do know that Mitch McConnell‘s wife, Elaine Chao, and her family own one of the world’s shipping companies, based in Communist China, right?

    3. avatar frank speak says:

      not millions…maybe 185,000 by last count…but the precedent has been set…and that’s the really dangerous part…

    4. avatar Cooter E Lee says:

      “I believe the agenda of the ATF comes from a motivated political faction of attorneys inside of the organization who are attempting to frustrate the ability of the current POTUS to be re-elected.”

      lol, whut?

      Usually I wouldn’t agree with Miner, but that statement is nonsensical. We need to ALL be more objective in judgement, neither side has a monopoly on truth.

      1. avatar Miner49er says:

        “We need to ALL be more objective in judgement”

        Thank you, that is indeed my humble request.

  8. avatar Anymouse says:

    Saying this is a move to influence the election seems a stretch. It isn’t front page news — heck, it isn’t news anywhere other than on gun sites. Trump didn’t ask for this ban, so he isn’t going to get blamed. My understanding is that BATFE is being defacto being run by the Obama appointed legal team because Trump never appointed a director to drain that swamp. The one nomination he made last year was an antigun police union hack that wanted ‘assault weapon’ bans and testified that Sotomayor was a great supporter of 2A. Canterbury was soundly rejected by the Senate Republicans, as he should have been. Richardson, the associate director, was appointed last year, but he’s come up through the ranks and is not a reformer. Trump needs to appoint a solid 2A sheriff to the position if he wins.

    1. avatar Miner49er says:

      “Trump never appointed a director to drain the swamp.”

      Do you really believe that?

      “Lombardo served as Acting Deputy Director of ATF from March 2018 until she was formally nominated to serve as Acting Director by the Attorney General, William Barr, on April 24, 2019. Lombardo took office on May 1, 2019, succeeding Thomas Brandon, who was retiring.”

      With one word, director Lombardo could stop this enforcement action.

      With one word, attorney general William Barr could stop this enforcement action.

      With one word, republican president Donald Trump could stop this enforcement action.

      Yet, they haven’t and they won’t, this action is being taken at their direction because, once again, y’all have been snookered by NYC ConMan.

      1. avatar P STARR says:

        The mighty trumpy bear at it again. Just realize the king of con is the don

  9. avatar Miner49er says:

    Listen to the Fed, he knows what’s up.

    “If ATF did it for an October surprise, they wouldn’t have sent the letter in August.”

    Another problem is that the manufacturer publicly posted videos showing company personnel shouldering the weapon and firing it. That clearly indicates the weapon was designed to be fired from the shoulder, there’s no denying the video evidence provided by the manufacture themselves.

    But oh no, it’s a secret Cabal of leftist sleeper agents within the ATF, conspiring to deprive Typhoid Trump of the presidency.

  10. avatar BardDavid says:

    I am in the camp of the manufacturer tweaked the bear’s nose and now they are getting bit. From what I’ve seen around they aren’t even attempting to sell their ‘pistol brace for those with disabilities’ as a pistol brace; they are selling it as a workaround for an SRB. I guess it has the same thing as art vs p*rn; I know it when I see it. I could make a checklist all day and you can find ways to get around it.

    The ATF is willing to smile and nod about most of the braces since they know you darn well aren’t using them as braces; you are totally shouldering those things.

    1. avatar C.S. says:

      Sorry, the government has allowed it for years, don’t expect people to be happy when they try a retraction. Just like the European countries that for years were advocating that people buy and drive diesel cars, to do an about-face and pretend it wasn’t their fault to begin with, just makes people pissed off at the capricious and authoritarian nature of their government.

  11. avatar enuf says:

    First, obey the law, don’t set yourself or your company up for a fall.

    Second, and again and again, another clear indication that Trump’s loyalty to the Constitutional nd the Second Amendment was tied to the NRA spending $30,000,000 to help elect him. Now that NRA is out of the picture, Trump is less interested in us.

    What we can lean on now is that the Federalist Society nominated Barret to the Supreme Court. If she is confirmed by the Senate before the election, which looks likely, it is then that much safer to boot out the Traitor Trump.

    Come 2021 we should nominate the Federalist Society for the Presidential Medal of Freedom.

    1. avatar Tex300BLK says:

      This is actually a perfect example of why the whole “obey the law and you wont have problems” mentality is fundamentally flawed. It’s certainly good advice, but it only works until a government agency arbitrarily decides that what you are doing is now against the law.

      Q followed the law… the ATF then moved the goal-posts.

    2. avatar frank speak says:

      eliminating the NRA…or, at least exposing it and allowing it to implode..is another item on their check list…

      1. avatar Miner49er says:

        “ …exposing it and allowing it to implode..is another item on their check list… “

        Yes, maybe you are right, they were wrong to expose the NRA’s wrongdoing, criminal activity, and executive self-enrichment.

        Things would be going much smoother if actual members and donors weren’t aware of Wayne Lapierre‘s $20,000 suits and multi million dollar apartments. Or his intern girlfriend and secret consulting contracts worth millions, why should the members know anything at all about the tax cheats in the administration of the NRA, it’s none of their business, right?

        Man, that is so ‘patriotic’ of you.

      2. avatar enuf says:

        Yeah, well it is a supreme irony that our best chance to save the NRA is now in the hands of State and Federal prosecutors going after criminal charges on Wayne’s bad deeds. The NRA must be rebuilt. Best option is to do so in a Free State jurisdiction. Getting to that point is going to be painful and costly. All of Wayne’s fellow travelers (crooks, thieves, sycophants) must be expunged from the NRA. Some may have to go to jail for what they have done. Heavy fines are a possibility.

        In the end a reborn and focused NRA may come out of this chaos. We can all hope for it.

        Until then not one more cent in donations until Wayne & Co are history!!!

    3. avatar Southern Cross says:

      But Creepy Joe and Kameltoe are both refusing to answer the question about packing the courts after the election. Which means they are going to do it.

  12. avatar Miner49er says:

    This just in, analysts expect to see fewer comments posted on the TTAG forum as federal agents round up right wing extremists.
    Film at 11.

    “A team of militia operatives is charged with conspiring to kidnap Gov. Gretchen Whitmer in a plot in which they considered storming the state Capitol in a commando raid that would use Molotov cocktails to keep police cars at bay, according to newly unsealed court records.
    Members of the group bought weapons, conducted surveillance and held training and planning meetings, but they were foiled in part because the FBI infiltrated the group with informants, according to a criminal complaint.
    The FBI became aware early in 2020, through social media, that a militia group was “discussing the violent overthrow of certain government and law enforcement components” and “agreed to take violent action,” according to a sworn affidavit.
    Organizers of the domestic terror plot talked about “murdering … tyrants” or “taking” a sitting governor, according to the affidavit. The FBI monitored a meeting June 20 in Grand Rapids, the affidavit says.
    Discussions included using 200 men to “storm” the Capitol Building in Lansing, kidnap hostages including Whitmer and try the governor for treason, according to the affidavit.
    The group met for field exercises and training this year and conducted surveillance of the governor’s vacation home on at least two occasions in late August and September, the affidavit alleges. They purchased an 800,000-volt Taser and night goggles for use in the kidnapping plot, according to court records. Members of the plot said they wanted to complete the kidnapping before the election Nov. 3, according to the affidavit.”

    1. avatar enuf says:

      Think about it, can anyone recall an attempt to violently overthrow a State or Federal government in our Republic since the Civil War?

      This is huge news.

      1. avatar Serpent_Vision says:

        Blair Mountain?

        1. avatar Miner49er says:

          Blair Mountain was not an attempt to overthrow the government, it was an attempt to unionize the miners in Logan County, West Virginia.

          The 100th anniversary of the battle of Blair Mountain is coming up next year, this would be a good time for folks to reacquaint themselves with the men and women who fought, bled and died for safe working conditions and benefits for American workers.

          Even today, the corporations are trying to destroy the Blair Mountain battlefield, they don’t want American workers to have a site to commemorate the struggle for safe jobs and equality in the workplace.

          If you have enjoyed voluntary overtime, 40 hour work weeks, health and safety workplace regulations, or other labor benefits, thank the coal miners who fought the gun thugs and corrupt sheriff deputies to establish your rights as an American worker.

      2. avatar LarryinTX says:

        So far, it sounds bogus to me. Show me a list of weapons and explosives, a location where she would be held, *anything* other than an all-internet mouth-diahrrea clusterfuck of blowhards. Was there *ANY* possibility this was actually going to happen?

    2. avatar FedUp says:

      And next we’ll hear that it was the FBI who plotted it, much like the Hutaree Militia scam, which, coincidentally, was also in Michigan.

      7 idiots, one of the FBI, babbling about asking a militia group to kidnap the governor for them, does not constitute a militia plot, any more than a FBI informant threatening to blow up government facilities and a bunch of Hutarees saying ‘you do that, we’ll watch from here’ does.

      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2121490/Hutaree-militia-trial-Michigan-group-CLEARED–despite-massive-undercover-operation.html

      1. avatar Chris Mallory says:

        Using undercover assets to entrap citizens has been the FeeBI MO for decades now. Most of the “Islamic Terror” arrests in the US have been of this variety. FeeBI agent locates a group with no money or even the ability to pour urine from a boot, then it agitates and makes promises. Money and/or a fake bomb are then provided. And Presto Changeo, the FeeBI is getting big headlines about the Mooslim Terror ring they just broke up.
        The typical FeeBI agent lies even more readily than your typical cop, and that is saying something.

        1. avatar Miner49er says:

          “Most of the “Islamic Terror” arrests in the US have been of this variety.”

          Well I am so glad to know that most of the Islamic terrorist arrests have been entrapment cases, so I guess the whole Muslim ban by Donald Trump was total BS and just political theater.

          I think there is a couple hundred thousand Americans who wish he had also banned the thousands of Chinese nationals flying in from Hong Kong and Macau earlier this year…

        2. avatar FedUp says:

          It turns out the primary target of this sting is an Anarchist with possible Antifa/terrorist leanings. Hard to know which side to root for at this point, the Detroit Field Office of the Feral Bureau of Instigation, or violent Anarchists? Maybe I’ll watch this argument from the sidelines.

          https://twitter.com/robbystarbuck/status/1314267058339819520?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

        3. avatar Miner49er says:

          Oh yeah, antifa really wants to take out the governor of Michigan, they talk about it all the time…

          “Importantly, the militia did more than just talk. Over the weekend of July 10, five of the six charged met in Wisconsin to conduct “field training exercises.” Those exercises included firing a rifle fitted with a silencer, and the construction — and attempted demolition — of two improvised explosive devices.
          “Attendees shared photos and video recordings of the exercise in Facebook discussions that included [one of the FBI’s confidential human sources],” notes the complaint.
          The planning advanced so far as to involve actual scouting trips to Governor Whitmer’s vacation home, and included discussion of blowing up a nearby bridge to slow possible police response.
          Bridge Michigan, a news nonprofit, identified what appear to be social media accounts belonging to two of the accused men. While the posts are no longer viewable on Facebook and Instagram, a screenshot obtained by Bridge Michigan shows a Facebook post from Brian Caserta, one of the accused, pondering the legitimacy of violence.
          “Is it morally legitimate to initiate violence and theft against non violent people?” reads the now-deleted Facebook post.
          In a now-deleted Instagram post, uploaded to Vimeo by Bridge Michigan and embedded below, Caserta talks in detail about his new gun.
          In late July, the complaint notes that Fox used Facebook to rally his accused fellow co-conspirators.
          “We about to be busy ladies and gentlemen,” he is accused of posting to a private Facebook page. “This is where the Patriot shows up. Sacrifices his time, money, blood sweat and tears . . . it starts now so get fucking prepared!!”

          Wow, you were right, these are just innocent good guys with guns, completely lead astray by FBI undercover infiltrators.

          Why, they were engaged in a innocent Bible study group when the FBI sent evil leftist infiltrators to corrupt these poor innocent young boys.

          Fed, does your supervising agent know you’re posting this stuff? Or is this part of your assignment?

      2. avatar Miner49er says:

        “Wolverines!“

        “Six people were charged federally with conspiracy to kidnap, and seven other people, associated with the militia group “Wolverine Watchmen,” were charged by the state, Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel announced.
        “The individuals in (state) custody are suspected to have attempted to identify the home addresses of law enforcement officers in order to target them, made threats of violence intended to instigate a civil war, and engaged in planning and training for an operation to attack the capitol building of Michigan and to kidnap government officials, including the governor of Michigan,” Nessel said at a press conference.”

  13. avatar Frank says:

    With all this BS about braces being legal and the consequences that may follow, I remember a recording artist by the name of Madonna saying on an open mike, “I would like to blow up the White House!”Obviously the ATF didn’t hear or she would have been locked up or at the least been question. Law? We need no stink’n law.

    1. avatar Serpent_Vision says:

      As worded, she was stating a desire but not any intention.

  14. avatar Cocochanel says:

    Motorist – What is the problem officer?
    Officer – You were exceeding the speed limit.
    Motorist – What is the speed limit here?
    Officer – I am not allowed to tell you.
    Motorist – Then how can I obey the speed limit?
    Officer – You are resisting a lawful order and are now under arrest.

  15. avatar sound awake says:

    pin the brace all the way forward
    its a length of pull issue right

  16. avatar Chris Mallory says:

    “The ATF is responsible for the massacres at both Waco and Ruby Ridge.”

    Waco started ATF, but it was the FeeBI that ended up killing most of the citizens on scene.
    Ruby Ridge started as an ATF sting, but the Marshals made the first kill, then the FeeBI added two to their “citizens murdered” column. The FeeBI is actually the more dangerous of the two agencies since it has a “better” reputation.

  17. avatar Don from CT says:

    I agree with everything in this article. The NFA is idiotic. All gun restrictions are idiotic.

    But lets be honest. The gun has a cheek rest. I don’t like it. But I get it. I suspect that if the cheek rest was removed, there wouldn’t be a problem.

    1. avatar LarryinTX says:

      No law says so, just a “ruling” by a bunch of bureaucrats which violates 2A and can therefore be ignored. Except you better have your own law firm, the government will spend BILLIONS of other people’s money in order to bankrupt you, if you don’t hit your knees and start sucking.

  18. avatar Cale15 says:

    So since it was a rouge agent trump is gonna have this fixed right?

  19. avatar Mandew says:

    Miranda V. Arizona 384 u.s. 436 (1966)
    Ex parte Siebold, 100 u.s. 371 (1879)
    Norton V. Shelby County, 118 u.s. 425 (1886)
    Marbury V. Madison, 5 u.s. 137 (1803)
    A.L.A. Schechtor Poultry Corp V. United States, 295 u.s. 495 (1935)

    Think its covered! (ATF SUCKS)

  20. avatar We need convention of states to reign in these morons! says:

    Convention of states!!!

  21. avatar Hannibal says:

    “Right now, I believe the agenda of the ATF comes from a motivated political faction of attorneys inside of the organization who are attempting to frustrate the ability of the current POTUS to be re-elected. ”

    This may be the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. Does he think all gun owners are this easy to snow? When has gun control being implemented EVER been something that loses votes for the GOP? If that was the case Trump wouldn’t have any gun voters left after the bump stock ban that, unlike this, he personally spoke in favor of.

    If anything, it’s more likely this is a false flag to try and get more people to vote trump to get those damn ‘deep state’ actors out… you know… the ones that work in the executive branch under him.

  22. avatar Matt in Oklahoma says:

    This is just a first move for post election. The only question is for which side? We know the left is waiting to trounce us but President Trump sold out once before on bumpstocks so is this his doing? I really can’t tell anymore.

  23. avatar Miner49er says:

    Yes, maybe you fellas are right.

    These clever anarchists disguised themselves as white supremacists in order to fool everybody, how clever!

    “A Facebook page for Eric Molitor, another Michigan man who faces state charges in the case, features praise for 17-year-old Kyle Rittenhouse, who’s accused of killing two protesters in Kenosha, Wis. Molitor also posted about conspiracy theories relating to the QAnon movement, posting the QAnon hashtag “Save Our Children” and images about human-trafficking conspiracy theories. Moliter had previously posted images indicating affiliation with “three-percenter” militias, a far-right paramilitary movement.

    Defendants Musico and Morrison, both 42-year-olds who lived together, had sparser online profiles, with neither of them liking anything on Facebook besides a Christian broadcasting group. But on YouTube, Musico was more vocal, sharing rambling tirades against taxes, gun control, and the “Deep State”—as well as a rant from 2019 entitled “Gretchen Whitmer Interview” in which he railed against her policies around auto ownership. In the video, he implied that he was going to obtain an in-person interview with Whitmer.

    A Pete Musico also has a page on the social media site Gab, popular among white supremacists and the alt-right, on which he promoted the unfounded claim that in South Africa “they are killing white people.” Although many of the posts feature broken images (a hallmark of Gab), one of the user’s favorite accounts wa that of Joe Biggs, a Proud Boy organizer who has glorified violence against the left. Biggs and anti-Semitic Infowars personality Owen Shroyer are the only accounts he follows.

    A Michigan-based Pete Musico also has a Twitter account with a Tea Party-style “Don’t Tread On Me” banner as the profile image and a number of posts from 2016 voicing support for Trump and calling for the imprisonment of then-Democratic Party presidential nominee Hillary Clinton. It also includes unfounded allegations that former President Bill Clinton fathered an “illegitimate black child” and that vaccines contain dangerous levels of mercury. Another post urges his 14 followers to visit right-wing conspiracy theorist Alex Jones’s site Infowars.”

    Here’s the best part:

    “ …calling for the imprisonment of then-Democratic Party presidential nominee Hillary Clinton.”

    Guess who’s not going to prison… ‘Killerly’ Clinton.

    Guess who is going to prison… A bunch of Trump-lovin’ inbred white power terrorists…

  24. avatar Jason says:

    Vote for Jo Jorgensen and we won’t have to worry about the ATF and stupid infringements like this. Trump is allowing this to happen. Precedent was established with the bump stock ban.

Write a Comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

button to share on facebook
button to tweet
button to share via email