SAF: More Second Amendment Cases Headed the Supreme Court’s Way

scotus

Courtesy Jeff Hulbert

From the Second Amendment Foundation . . .

While the U.S. Supreme Court has mooted the New York State Rifle & Pistol Association’s challenge of a now-defunct handgun law in the City of New York, there is a possibility for an important Second Amendment ruling coming from one of four cases now pending before the high court, the Second Amendment Foundation said today.

The hint came in a concurrence on the court’s decision from Justice Brett Kavanaugh. While he shares concerns voiced by Associate Justice Samuel Alito that some state and federal courts may not be properly applying the principles of the Heller and McDonald rulings.

“The court should address that issue soon,” Justice Kavanaugh observed, “perhaps in one of the several Second Amendment cases with petitions for certiorari now pending before the Court.”

While SAF founder and Executive Vice President Alan M. Gottlieb was disappointed, but not surprised by the high court’s action on the New York Case, he is encouraged that one of SAF’s four cases now up for consideration by the Supreme Court may be granted a hearing.

“The Second Amendment Foundation currently has four cases pending before the Supreme Court that could serve that purpose,” Gottlieb said, “and we hope that one or all of these cases gets heard and gives notice to lower courts that they can no longer thumb their noses at the prior rulings that protect Second Amendment rights.”

The four SAF cases already submitted to the high court are Rodriguez v. City of San Jose; Pena v. Cid, Culp v. Madigan and Mance v. Barr. The Mance case involves SAF’s sister organization, the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms as a plaintiff.

“SCOTUS mooted the New York case as the old law is no longer valid,” Gottlieb remarked, “but invited hearing another case pending before the high court to insure that lower courts adhere to the Heller and McDonald rulings made previously by the high court. We’ve got four ready-made cases now on the table just waiting for acceptance.”

 

The Second Amendment Foundation (www.saf.org) is the nation’s oldest and largest tax-exempt education, research, publishing and legal action group focusing on the Constitutional right and heritage to privately own and possess firearms. Founded in 1974, The Foundation has grown to more than 650,000 members and supporters and conducts many programs designed to better inform the public about the consequences of gun control.

comments

  1. avatar Sam I Am says:

    There ya go. More cases before the SC will show them. It’s not like the court can dismiss all of them, or anything.

    1. avatar Doug says:

      Unless President Trump wins reelection (which seems increasingly unlikely), that’s exactly what will happen.

      1. avatar d says:

        Think Dementia Joe can beat Trump????????????? I can’t wait to watch Joe drool in his shoes during the debate

        1. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “Think Dementia Joe can beat Trump?”

          Yes, but not as commonly visualized.

          Trump beating up on Biden will look like raw cruelty.
          People voting for Biden will actually be voting for his V-P
          There are more registered Dims, than Repugnants.
          The presidential race is insignificant compared to House and Senate.

          Trump will need a much more sly approach to the election, than in 2016. Brute force and awkwardness will be played as incompetence and viciousness. He should run as if the Dims have no candidate at all; make Biden a non-person.

        2. avatar neiowa says:

          Mammy A for veep

        3. avatar Huntmaster says:

          He will probably forget to wear his shoes and show up in his slippers.

        4. avatar BusyBeef says:

          The battle lines are drawn.

          The Democrat Challenger: One demented, rapey old boomer.

          The Republican Incumbent: One rapey, demented old boomer.

      2. avatar PATRON49IFT says:

        I disagree about Trump. He will be re-elected in a landslide. Sleepy Joe doesn’t know where he is most of the time, he can’t string together a coherent sentence and most Americans recognize the man is impaired. And this is before any debates or campaign ads hit the air. Trump will appoint 2-3 more Supremes in his next term along with 400-500 more Federal judges, continuing to remake the 9th circuit. Likely keep the Senate and probably re-take the house. The Dems have never faced a Republican like Trump who takes no prisoners. All the Repubs before him preferred to ‘lose like gentlemen’ rather than get their hands dirty in the trenches fighting the Dems on their own terms. And that is just what they mostly did, lose. Despite all the forces arrayed against him inside and outside the government he is still standing.

        When the history of this covid pandemic is written he will be shown to have been on top of it quicker and better than any of the other empty suits including the talking heads on tv.

        1. avatar 2aguy says:

          And this is why we need to hold our noses and vote in every republican on the ticket…in particular in the Senate where they confirm judges and justices…if Trump wins, but loses the Senate it’s over….a democrat controlled senate will not approve even one more of Trump’s nominees for the federal courts…..so…tell your “never-Trump cause I don’t like his tweets…” friends to put on their big boy pants and vote for Trump and the republicans…even the really stupid republicans…..numbers in the Senate and house actually mean something…

        2. avatar Paul says:

          I don’t see a “landslide”. Trump won by the hair of a gnat’s arse the last time around, because no one really liked him, but no one liked the alternative any better. The country remains divided over a lot of things, just the way the Dems intend. Those who support the constitution and the second should be out campaigning like mad, to preserve the majority in the senate, to establish a majority in the house, AND to ensure that Trump wins. If the progressives win, they can overturn a whole lot of progress in short order. If progressives only preserve the majority in the house, they can continue to obstruct common sense. If they take the majority in the senate, we’re all screwed. Don’t just get out and vote, get out and campaign! IMHO, the second amendment issues are the single most important issue today. There are others almost as important, but 2A is number one. Bear in mind that every country that has experienced genocidal atrocities was disarmed first. You can’t kill of an entire people when they are armed!

        3. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “Trump won by the hair of a gnat’s arse the last time around…”

          Actually….no.

          Popular vote:
          Clinton – 65,844,610 votes
          Trump – 62,979,636 votes

          Electoral vote:
          Trump – 304
          Clinton – 227

          A winning differential of +77 EC votes cannot be considered “thin”.

        4. avatar uncommon_sense says:

          Sam I Am,

          This is one of the rare occasions that you are incorrect: Trump just barely eeked by Hillary.

          Sure, Trump won by 77 electoral college votes. Had he lost Florida and Wisconsin he would have lost the election. Note that Trump only edged out Hillary in Florida by 1.2% of the popular vote and Wisconsin by 0.77% of the popular vote.

          Or, Trump could have lost Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania where his margins were only 0.77%, 0.23%, and 0.72% (respectively) of the popular vote and Hillary would be President.

          When your election hinges on three states with margins less than 1%, that is not a decisive victory much less a landslide.

          The most scary part: I am pretty confident that Trump will lose Wisconsin and Michigan in 2020. If that happens, then the entire election will hinge on Florida and Pennsylvania. I cannot even venture a guess as to which way Florida and Pennsylvania will vote.

        5. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “This is one of the rare occasions that you are incorrect: Trump just barely eeked by Hillary.”

          We look at the results from different platforms. In determining the winner in the EC, it is total vote count alone. Stepping back to look at the state voting (which may soon be the surrogate for EC votes), one might consider the vote differentials to be “slim”, making the EC result “eeking out a victory. However, how to view this proposition: Trump wins every state popular vote by less than 1%. Landslide? Or eeke?

          I agree with your assessment that if the Dims had pushed their deplorable candidate a little harder, we would have had a Dim deplorable as president, vs. a Repugnant deplorable. For 2020, we are totally depending on enough Repub voters to be so outraged at the last four years, they don’t care that Trump is the candidate.

        6. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

          “For 2020, we are totally depending on enough Repub voters to be so outraged at the last four years, they don’t care that Trump is the candidate.”

          That *can* be done.

          The last 3 years has been continuous non-stop hate Trump, hate Trump, and yet more hate Trump by the Left controlled mass-media. That can bite them in the ass. While it is true they are ‘preaching to the Leftist choir’ with their ‘reporting’, it’s also true that conservatives also see that ‘reporting’ and are getting more and more enraged by it.

          Trump’s base is rock-solid behind him come Hell or high water. They are likely voters that will show up.

          On the other hand, The Left may hate Trump, but they are vulnerable to falling for what happened last time. That being, being so convinced they will win, a sizeable percentage could simply stay home and start popping the champagne bottles in celebration, like what actually happened at Clinton’s private hotel suite.

          We just don’t know what will happen in November, and anyone who claims they do, is talking out of their ass, just like I’m doing right now… 😉

        7. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “We just don’t know what will happen in November, and anyone who claims they do, is talking out of their ass, just like I’m doing right now…”

          Agree. Not interested in polls (they are designed to shape opinion, not reflect it). Just accepting that nothing is the same since January, and thinking any advantage Trump had then will be the avenue to a second term is not profitable.

          BTW, if enough people are convinced Trump will win a landslide, his voters just might stay at home, waiting to open the Pearl beer.

        8. avatar Miner49er says:

          “history of this covid pandemic is written he will be shown to have been on top of it quicker and better than any of the other empty suits”

          Hilarious, have you had your morning injection of disinfectant today?

        9. avatar TrumpDoesntCareAboutYouOrYour2ARights says:

          LOL @ Calling Trump a Republican. A RINO if I ever saw one. Remember like, literally 4 years before his campaign when he was a Democrat? And the preceding 20 years?

          What a joke. Trump cares less about your 2A rights than he does about Melania.

        10. avatar Phil Regular says:

          The problem is, that Biden will not be the candidate. He will quit or be removed. It will happen no later than July 1.

      3. avatar Debbie W. says:

        Unlikely? On what basis do you assume that to be likely? Perhaps you should ignore fake news and their useful idiots. You know the fake news that repeatedly said hilliary was a shoe-in.

        TRUMP/PENCE 2020.

        1. avatar Raven says:

          Most likely Sleepy Joe is just a place holder. I think he’ll gets the nomination and then post-convention will end up being ‘disqualified’ one way or another. Then, if I’m not mistaken, the DNC powers-that-be can select whoever they wish as his replacement. This could be where Cuomo gets a nod, or perhaps even the two-time loser HRC. Regardless, it will not the VP choice, who may or may not survive the culling of SJ. JM2CW

      4. avatar Tyrannosaurus Sex says:

        Orange Man might surprise again, but as anyone should know, past performance is not indicative of future results.

        Can he thread the needle in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, take North Carolina and Florida again, hold Arizona, or some combination of most of the above? I doubt it, even if the economy is back by the end of next month.

        Biden very much appears to be in mental decline, but most people won’t see it if the median doesn’t show it.

        1. avatar Jeff the Griz says:

          I’m fairly confident if he elects G “Fix the Damn Roads” W as his running mate Joe will lose MI. Or maybe Michigan voters will be so happy to be rid of her they’ll vote for her to move to DC?

        2. avatar robert cosenza says:

          most people we know don,t watch the really fake news medias.cnn msnbc abc cbs,nbc the new york slimes,and the washington hoax.they watch mark levin of life liberty and levin.and hannity.and haven,t watched or listened to ,the really fake medias in years.see we research things,not like the sheep out there,who are lead around by there noses.just research what trump has accomplished since in office.and look at what the do nothing treasonous,unamerican democrats haven,t accomplished in years.look at any democrat run city/state,and see what they turned into.everyone we know is focused alerted,and pissed off with the do nothing democrats.and we read the epoch times.and where ready to vote and go down,the do nothing dispickable democrats throats,with both feet.

        3. avatar Sam I Am says:

          I put on my Schutzstaffel Sturmbahn Fuerer uniform this morning….

          Lead, Led, Lead.

          Get it?
          Got it?
          Good

        4. avatar Miner49er says:

          “we read the epoch times.and where ready to vote and go down,the do nothing dispickable democrats“

          Yes, I’m sure the Democrats are quaking in their boots with folks like you as their opponents.

  2. avatar GS650G says:

    We will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.

    Kinda like that.

    1. avatar Sam I Am says:

      “We will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.”

      You’re no fun. Broke the code. Now everyone knows.

      (I yam what I yam, and that’s all that I yam)

    2. avatar Miner49er says:

      Shouldn’t that be ‘hamberder’?

  3. avatar Shawn says:

    More court cases? Why? It will have a 100% dismissal rate. Every single solitary case brought forth Supreme Court are the court will not hear or they will side with the government. Even if one of those laws were ‘All guns are illegal and we will go door-to-door to confiscate all guns by force and kill the gun owner and their families and their children and if their children areNot home and in school go to the schools to see their children and execute them. Anyone who opposes this that is not a gun owner is a traitor to the United States and should also be executed as such. At this point the courts will see its constitutional including the Supreme Court. I suspect that the Supreme Court will also state constitutional for the United States citizens to be killed by a nuclear weapons because that’s how much contempt the Democrats in the courts have for The population of United States. In fact the Democrats really want is a complete extermination of all human life in the country minus themselves and illegal immigrants. If that means literally killing 300+ million people in the United States that is an acceptable action to take also a constitutional one as far as the courts are concerned. As far as 100% of the courts including Supreme Court is within the governments rights to actually exterminate the entire United States population through a nuclear holocaust and to import migrants to replenish the supply of humans as a permanent slave class.

    1. avatar Huntmaster says:

      Do your parents know you are on the computer again?

  4. avatar Don says:

    NY state residents lose out again. Lucky us. Screw NY City. How about the Sullivan or SAFE act?

    1. avatar Napresto says:

      It’s seriously baffling to me that anyone can look at NY state (where I live), CA, NJ, etc. and think, “Yep, none of what’s happening there seems to be an infringement.”

      Mind blowing, offensive, and seeming likelier than ever to lead to tears in the near future…

      1. avatar Mercury says:

        Federal courts seem more interested in playing politics than upholding the Constitution. There’s nowhere else to go now. Something has to give or people are going to start voting from the rooftops, as it were.

        1. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “Something has to give or people are going to start voting from the rooftops, as it were.”

          Nope. A nation that calmly accedes to voluntary house arrest for a disease is not one prepared to take up arms. Considering how few manage to overcome the inconvenience of actually voting in any election, those same people are not up to the rigors of disciplining government. The Buggabuggbuggaaloo ain’t coming.

  5. avatar JustUseCommonSense says:

    It was a given that the NY case would’ve and SHOULD have been mooted. As disappointing as it may be it was mooted. There are still strong cases that have virtually no chance of being mooted unless NJ and HI choose to radically change their conceal carry laws these are cases that will move forward and will render a decision.

    1. avatar Paul says:

      Actually, if you read all the commentary around the case, it shouldn’t have been mooted. The problem was, the lawyers who handled the case weren’t prepared for NYC’s move. Had they argued the case from a somewhat different angle, and included asked for a bigger piece of pie with the case, NYC’s actions wouldn’t have mooted the case. In short, the lawyers on our side weren’t greedy enough, weren’t demanding enough in the early or the mid stages of the case. When it finally reached the Supreme Court, they couldn’t then add on demands. Long story short, it’s our own fault the case was mooted.

      1. avatar JustUseCommonSense says:

        I would have to disagree with you there. There was no valid argument anymore for the trial to continue. New York gutted the law on purpose to make the law moot. Now granted they didn’t get reimbursed and this case was kicked back to the lower court system. Lets not start a terrible precedent just to get our way, it simply isn’t worth the potential abuse in the future.

        But an update on TTAG is saying that a conference 01May20 will take place and will be about one of the many 2A cases before the court to allow to proceed. The only thing I see here is going to be the case that they choose. States like NJ and HI have discriminatory practices in their issuance of concealed carry, but how is Roberts going to go with letting the people exercise their 2A rights?

        We’ll find out in the future.

    2. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

      “There are still strong cases that have virtually no chance of being mooted unless NJ and HI choose to radically change their conceal carry laws…”

      And it’s *possible* they could do just that. Fall on the sword so it never gets to the SCOTUS in the first place.

      Unfortunately, today’s announcement has just emboldened the Leftists, and they just might risk it getting to the SCOTUS…

  6. avatar todd says:

    Given that anti-rights state simply ignore cases that go against them, what is the point?

    1. avatar tsbhoa.p.jr says:

      actually, that is the whole point.

  7. avatar Debbie W. says:

    Perhaps the USSC can decide if Gun Control violates the 10 Commandments, Bill of Rights, The United States Constitution, etc. Mountains of evidence shows Gun Control is Rooted in Racism and Genocide. Let’s see the attorneys for Gun Control zealots try to defend a racist and nazi based agenda. Good luck with that.

    1. avatar Sam I Am says:

      “Let’s see the attorneys for Gun Control zealots try to defend a racist and nazi based agenda.”

      The Dims have survived Margaret Sanger quite nicely.

      1. avatar SAFEupstateFML says:

        Gettin awful tired of you being right there bud.

        1. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “Gettin awful tired of you being right there bud.”

          It’s what happens when I skip my breakfast martini.

    2. avatar Miner49er says:

      “Perhaps the USSC can decide if Gun Control violates the 10 Commandments”

      The United States is not, and never has been, a Christian nation. To include the 10 Commandments in a list of our founding documents is the epitome of fake news and revisionist history.

      The 10 Commandments are imperfect at best,
      as rape, pedophilia, genocide and slavery do not violate the 10 Commandments either.

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “The 10 Commandments are imperfect at best, as rape, pedophilia, genocide and slavery do not violate the 10 Commandments either.”

        Ignorance is matter of lacking information/knowledge. Stupidity is a case of having knowledge and refusing to act on it, and/or a case of refusing to admit a lack of knowledge.

        Your assertion is simply wrong, in every respect. You have been corrected on this, before. You have been given accurate information/knowledge, before. One’s character and influence are not enhanced by demonstrated stupidity.

  8. avatar former water walker says:

    We’ll see what the future holds vis a vis Trump. No matter what I ain’t handing in my guns! BREAKING: Mass murder in Milwaukee. 5 murdered ” appears” to be domestic related.

  9. avatar Chris T in KY says:

    Relying on the courts to protect your civil rights is a waste of time. Yes give money to the SAF, GOA, JPFO, even the NRA if you still want to.
    Your best bet is your state level 2A groups.

    Get rifle teams and 2A education put back into the public schools. That is the only long-term solution. Create future pro 2A educated voters.

    1. avatar Miner49er says:

      Chris, I actually agree with you on the sentiment, though I would include the full constitution and legislative process.

      And I think we should have mandatory national service, either in the military or civil service for every able-bodied individuals when they reach 19, for a period of two years.

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “And I think we should have mandatory national service, either in the military or civil service for every able-bodied individuals when they reach 19, for a period of two years.”

        On this, we stand shoulder-to-shoulder.

  10. avatar Steve Eisenberg says:

    I would never vote for anyone who would take away my means of self-defense, leaving the borders open for good measure.

    1. avatar GS650G says:

      Lots of people vote to take away your right to self defense and the means to do it in return for free stuff and the promise of utopia.

  11. avatar Ark says:

    Roberts is going to deny cert to every single one of them. He has zero interest in reclaiming 2A rights.

    1. avatar TFred says:

      Chief Justice Roberts cannot prevent the court from taking a case. It requires only four justices to agree to take a case.

      Having said that, Roberts most certainly CAN vote with the gun-haters on the court, which would be much, much worse than not taking the case at all.

      Roberts may have returned us to the era of the Kennedy court, where it was much too dangerous to take a 2A case for fear that we might lose, than to wait for Kennedy to retire.

      These next steps are far more critical than many realize.

      1. avatar GS650G says:

        They must have some really awful stuff on Roberts to own him this way.

  12. avatar Shadow says:

    With the U.S. Supreme Court being composed of the current members, we have John Roberts, who votes the way his handlers tell him to, and thoroughly threatened and de-balled Kavanaugh, who will also vote whichever way the wind blows, as well, knowing his family could be threatened if he does not do what he is told. If gun owners are banking on, I am sorry, the Supreme Court, of all things to validate the Second Amendment, we are in trouble. The other four would just as soon get rid of the Second Amendment altogether. But also, who the hell made these nine black robes gods of the country? I thought we had three branches of government, not one? If they are going to be the final say in everything, we may as well get rid of Congress, and throw them on the streets, because they are about as worthless as giving salt water to a thirsty man.

    1. avatar Sam I Am says:

      “If they are going to be the final say in everything, we may as well get rid of Congress, and throw them on the streets, because they are about as worthless as giving salt water to a thirsty man.”

      The signers were quite aware of your concern.

    2. avatar GS650G says:

      The SCOTUS came into being after the country was founded. It was intended to make sure the government made laws that followed the rules, or the USC.
      The people saw what could be done with a simple majority vote of 5 people.
      Executive Orders are similar, stroke of the pen law of the land, but can be revoked. Congress can’t even bump a decision of the court.
      It’s been called the Supreme City Council of the US before for good reason.

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        ” Supreme City Council of the US”

        Nice turn of phrase; most descriptive.

  13. avatar TFred says:

    It’s important to note that while SAF may be involved with four 2A cases currently pending before SCOTUS, there are in fact, TEN such cases that had been “on hold” waiting the outcome of NYSRPA.

    ALL TEN cases were submitted for this Friday’s Conference, where the justices will meet to decide what action to take, if any, for each of these cases.

    https://twitter.com/2Aupdates/status/1254843635717283845

    1. avatar Sam I Am says:

      “ALL TEN cases were submitted for this Friday’s Conference, where the justices will meet to decide what action to take, if any, for each of these cases.”

      Ok….

      I wager $10,000 in fantasy Monopoly money none are granted a hearing.

      1. avatar TFred says:

        It’s certainly possible. If Roberts has gone wishy-washy like Kennedy did, then we might be in for a wait.

        FAR better to wait than to lose a case with Roberts siding with the gun-haters.

        If you don’t have the 5 votes, the only way to win is to not take the vote at all.

        1. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “FAR better to wait than to lose a case with Roberts siding with the gun-haters.”

          On a gut-level, I can understand the sentiment. On an intellectual, principle, level I hate the idea of politics, of any kind, being involved. It is impossible to always see to it that “good politics” operate in jurisprudence, while denying influence of “bad politics”.

          When we (whoever) let outcomes dictate whether to review a legal dispute, we admit to being a nation of based upon political power, not a nation enshrining and practicing “the rule of law”.

          I think R v. W was wrongly decided. Not because it led to a disastrous outcome, but because it was dependent on political considerations. The case should have been decided in two sentences: “The constitution does not list the rights of the people, nor the powers of the states; the constitution lists the limits of the national government. Without specific delegation to the national government the power to control population, the right to do so remains with the individual and the states (see Amendments 9 and 10).” Instead, R v. W went to great lengths to unnecessarily “invent” (enumerate) a constitutional right that was already extant.

          When there is a case before the bar, adjudicate it and move on. Let the politicians deal with outcomes. Delegating, by default, political decisions to the courts is a failing of the very rulers of the nation (the governed). We put legislating on auto-pilot, letting the elected officials do as they wish, and rather than gather the voters to discipline the legislators, we hope the courts will do it for us.

          “The problem, dear Brutus, is not in our stars; it is in ourselves.”

        2. avatar TFred says:

          It’s really quite simple.

          If the 4 pro-2A justices had taken a case while Kennedy was on the court, the Second Amendment might very well have been relegated to exist only within one’s home, the narrowest interpretation of Heller.

          It would take a generation – if then- to recover from that.

          You can pine all you want for pure jurisprudence. We are in the fight of our lives here. We cannot afford to make philosophical choices.

        3. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “You can pine all you want for pure jurisprudence. We are in the fight of our lives here. We cannot afford to make philosophical choices.”

          If that is the case, then the nation as founded is lost. If the salvation of the nation depends on five unelected law school graduates, then the people have spoken; they don’t want the responsibility of self-governance. The grand experiment has failed. Might as well just “burn” it all down, and let the law of the jungle rein. Power for power’s sake. Survival of the strongest.

          Franklin warned us.

    2. avatar Geoff "Guns. LOTS of guns..." PR says:

      “ALL TEN cases were submitted for this Friday’s Conference, where the justices will meet to decide what action to take, if any, for each of these cases.”

      Well, yeah, *but*…

      The Court has just done a wonderful job training the Leftists. They are now fully aware their position is precarious with the current Court’s make up, and will do the same again.

      Prediction – One or two of those will be granted cert., and the response will be to moot them. They will “fall on their own swords” and give us a lame victory on a state-by-state basis, ‘justice’ meted out as slowly as they can. Example – Cali gets shall-issue, maybe Mass ‘allows’ AR-pattern rifles and standard-capacity magazines, etc.

      They will drag this out as long as they possibly can…

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